Chauncey minor stat update

[bdubya]

I know nobody cares, but his assist/to ratio since the All-Star break is now up to 10.4 : 1.

:smokin

[Dunc]

Damn.... that's crazy.

[mavsfan1000]

Flip Saunders=Coach of the Year

[JMarkJohns]

Flip Saunders=Coach of the Year

Why? Because his two-time Finals team is on a 60+ win pace?

OK.... Why not Pops then? At least his team has struggled with injury. Saunders has done relatively little thanks to his near perfect health and avoidance of injury.

I really don't feel that winning with a Championship team is reason enough.

[jochhejaam]

Why? Because his two-time Finals team is on a 60+ win pace?

OK.... Why not Pops then? At least his team has struggled with injury. Saunders has done relatively little thanks to his near perfect health and avoidance of injury.

I really don't feel that winning with a Championship team is reason enough.
After the same number of games last year under the highly regarded coaching of Larry Brown the Pistons were 37-23, 14 games over .500
This year under Flip they are 49-11, 38 games over .500 with the players having to learn a new system under a new coach.
I'm quite sure that's enough to earn him strong consideration.

[JMarkJohns]

Last year they coasted after whooping the Lakers for the Title. They started slow, a many of the defending Champions do.

Also, this year has been filled with perfect health. I'm sure that has played as big, if not bigger a role in that record as Saunders.

Remember, Brown was ill last season as well.

Saunders has stepped in and done a great job, but he hasn't done anything to distinguish that it is he and not his two-time Finals team that has guided the Pistons to 49-11.

Absoultely nothing. He's largely allowing his players to just play, something that won D'Antoni the award last year, but also something I criticized then and will continue to do so now.

Give me a coach who's succeeded with inferior talent or overcome injuries with tougness and/or ingenuity over the best recorded coach.

[jochhejaam]

Saunders has stepped in and done a great job...

He's largely allowing his players to just play, .
As opposed to what?

[JMarkJohns]

As opposed to coaching. I've watched enough games to see that he's a hands off coach. There's nothing wrong with that and I think it's working very well for him, but by allowing his players to play, without constant dictation and instruction, he's allowing them to win or lose. It's the same type that D'Antoni ran last season.

I just don't think it's a style of coaching that's condusive to winning an award like "Coach of the Year", especially when perfect health allows him to never have to incorperate other players and or be innovative.

He's done a great job, don't get me wrong, but that team was a great team before and without him. If Saunders missed some time, I doubt they miss a beat.

Now, I've answered the questions, now answer why Saunders should win.

And please, please, please, please, don't say the Pistons record.

1. They've struggled as of late.
2. His lack of innovationhas put a lot of minutes on the starters.
3. He's had perfect health.

Record aside, what has he done to earn the award.

IMO, nothing.

It's the same thing I said for D'Antoni last season after the fabulous start fizzled down the stretch, after he failed to incorperate youngsters like Barbosa and Hunter properly and after this six player rotation put too many minutes on some key players bodies.

[Darrin]

I really don't feel that winning with a Championship team is reason enough.

Wow, so how does a Championship contender end up with the Coach of the Year?

If I recall correctly, the margin of improvement from 2002 to 2003 for the Spurs was a 2-game improvement (58 wins to 60).

If the Pistons don't win 60 games, there will be something wrong (11-10 over the next 21). When he does that, it will be at least a 6-game improvement over last season. He will have coached the Pistons to only their 2nd 60-win season in the history of the franchise.

The Pistons are winning, but doing it differently:

2005-06: 49-11 (.817)
Points Per Game: 97.3 (17th overall).
Field Goal Percentage: .453 (14th overall).
3-Point Field Goal Percentage: .387 (3rd overall).
Assists Per Game: 24.4 (2nd overall)
Turnovers Per Game: 10.5 (1st overall).
Points Against: 89.6 (3rd overall).
Field Goal Against: .447 (18th overall).
3-point Field Goal Against: .313 (1st overall).

2004-05: 54-28 (.659)
Points Per Game: 90.3 (26th overall)
Field Goal Percentage: .437 (23rd overall).
3-Point Field Goal Percentage: .326 (23rd overall).
Assist Per Game: 20.5 (5th overall).
Turnovers Per Game: 11.5 (3rd overall).
Points Against: 85.6 (1st overall)
Field Goal Against: .433 (5th overall)
3-Point Field Goal Against: .323 (5th overall).

[JMarkJohns]

Yes, that's all impressive, but what has he done?

Everything you gave points to the players. Sure, it's Saunders open offensive style that allowed it, but in said style, the players typically do, whatever they do, because of themselves.

Where's the player development?
Where's the innovation?

There is none.

If the Pistons suffer an injury, I'm not sure they have anyone fully capable of filling said spot. Why? Because of your coach, who isn't helping matters any, because in failing to develop a bench, he's put 75% of the minutes on the starters, meaning more wear and tear.

Look. I'm not just arguing against Saunders, I said this very stuff last season when D'Antoni "won" his award. IMO, he didn't do much then either. he allowed his players to play. However, he did switch Marion and Amare to PF and C. That in and of itself was a big reason for their success.

I have yet to see anything like that from Flip.

I think D'Antoni deserves the award this year, for having to work through more injuries than any other team, but would also argue for Byron Scott, Avery Johnson and Mike Dunleavy over Saunders. Even Pops deserves it more than Flip in my opinion.

He's done a fine job, but really... I haven't seen the enough coaching, developing or innovation from him for him to earn this award.

[v2freak]

Wow, what a great assist to turnover ratio! Now I know everything I've ever wanted to in life!

Hah, but seriously that is quite impressive

[Sense]

I have to agree with the JMarksJohn......

[JamStone]

I know it's tangental to the original topic, but as far as who should win the Coach of the Year, I consider the top candidates as follows:

1. Avery Johnson - I think he's made the most drastic and most evident difference in his team through COACHING.

2. Rick Carlisle - He should have won it last year, and he continues to coach well each game and find ways to win regardless of which players are available to him. While some teams have had serious injuries to key players, Carlisle has been missing his all-star power forward for long, long stretches, has not had his starting point guard for most of the year, and had another major meltdown by Ron Artest to deal with. I actually think he may deserve it more than Avery Johnson, but I also considered the success of the team.

3. Gregg Popovich - With Manu injured for a long stretch of games and Tim Duncan hobbling with plantar fasciitis, it is extremely impressive that his ballclub is tied for the second best record in the league. The way he has developed Tony Parker's game this year has been great. People can credit Tony Parker himself or may mention his romance as a positive influence, but I think it's the relationship between Pop and Parker that really allowed Parker to mature into a truly elite point guard in the league.

4. Byron Scott - I am a little reluctant to list Scott because I credit like 99% of the Hornets' success to Chris Paul. But, I will give Scott credit for getting the most out of the kid, and developing David West in the wake of losing a former all-star center in Jamaal Magloire. Sitting down that high school primadonna JR Smith also merits a few stars for Scott. But, I don't think Scott is as deserving as the top three.

5. Flip Saunders - Blessed with a championship caliber team, he still had to coach them. And, it's a misrepresentation by JMarkJohns that Flip's "open offensive style" just allows the players to play. Saunders has one of the thickest playbooks of all NBA coaches. Because he allows the players more freedom does not mean there is no structure. The Pistons don't play like the Phoenix Suns and run in transition EVERY SINGLE possession. The Pistons actually have halfcourt sets and plays.

To presume that the Pistons' offense is more attributable to the players than Flip's coaching is fair. But, that's true in almost all cases. Great players execute plays more effectively and make coaches look smart. Bad players make coaches look bad. Could D'Antoni lead the Atlanta Hawks to 50+ wins, especially with no true point guard to spark the fast break? Could Coach Pop get the Toronto Raptors to play efficient defense? That's why I rate Rick Carlisle so high, because he's doing it with his three main stars being injured or crazy for most of the season.

Flip has not been the best coach in the league this year, and he was very fortunate to be given a championship tested team that had little need for tweaking or molding or development. But, that doesn't take away anything from him in terms of implementing a more effective offense and the continued success that his team experienced the two seasons before he came.

As for Flip not developing players, that's untrue. He's designed an offense and gameplan that has made Chauncey Billups one of the premier point guards in the league. Did Billups develop all of this under Flip? No, but credit Flip for some of it. He has brought out some of the best basketball Rasheed Wallace has played in years. Just because you don't see much player development in the younger players doesn't mean that player development can't be in the older veteran players. And, with younger players, it takes more than two-thirds of a season to really gauge whether the younger players are being coached and developed well. The better test is how they play when they do in fact get more minutes. It's not fair to say the younger players don't get to play a lot and therefore conclude they are not being developed.

And, as for "INNOVATION," I don't understand this point. Innovation, like invention, is born out of NECESSITY. What the Detroit Pistons already had did not need a lot of change, or innovation. You don't fix what is not broken. Two NBA Finals appearances in the last two seasons, and Flip is supposed to "INNOVATE?" No, tweak, polish, hone. But, no need to innovate. Placing Amare at center and Marion at PF was OUT OF NECESSITY. That was not innovative. D'Antoni played his five best players. And, oh by the way, D'Antoni starters last year played 77% of the minutes.



D'Antoni has done a pretty good job this year, but just like in Byron Scott's case, I give more credit to Phoenix's season to Steve Nash than to D'Antoni. There's plenty of evidence from tonight's game how more important Steve Nash is to the Suns than D'Antoni is.

Mike Dunleavy is a hack of coach. He doesn't even come close to deserving the COY. He had talent on his team last year too, but the Clippers again underachieved. Sam Cassell and Cuttino Mobley did more for the Clippers in terms of changing that team's attitude than Dunleavy ever did.

[Obstructed_View]

The outstanding assist to turnover ratio is due to Flip's incredible coaching. "Hey, Chauncey, don't turn it over so much."

[mavsfan1000]

Well every year it could be Popovich but the Pistons have the biggest improvement and have the best record. This success might not be the same in the playoffs though. I think the Pistons might be built for the regular season like the mavs teams of the past (2003). They aren't the same defensive team as they've been the last 2 years.

[jochhejaam]

Well every year it could be Popovich but the Pistons have the biggest improvement and have the best record. This success might not be the same in the playoffs though. I think the Pistons might be built for the regular season like the mavs teams of the past (2003). They aren't the same defensive team as they've been the last 2 years.
Not sure how the Pistons can be giving up fewer points this year and be considered worse defensively.

The Mavs team this year is built for the playoffs and the Pistons aren't?
You homer! :lol

[jochhejaam]

The outstanding assist to turnover ratio is due to Flip's incredible coaching. "Hey, Chauncey, don't turn it over so much."


Other things overheard from Flip during timeouts;

"You guys get back out there and play better for me than ya did for Larry, ya hear"!

"Alright you guys, there on a 10-0 run, get out there and just play"!

[DarkReign]

Oh cmon...Flip doesnt deserve coach of the year.

I mean, look at D'Antoni in Phoenix, or the Clippers coach, or how about the little guy who is setting the record for best 100 game start for a coach in NBA history, Avery Johnson.

Im not saying Flip shouldnt be considered, I just dont think he should win.

[FreshPrince22]

I think the Pistons might be built for the regular season like the mavs teams of the past (2003). They aren't the same defensive team as they've been the last 2 years.

You have quickly become the biggest Piston hater on this forum. 89.6ppg. That's how many points Pistons opponents score per game. How many did the Mavs give up in 2003?

And BTW, you're never going to find a defense as good as the 2003-2004 Pistons because of the rule changes. It's just not physically possible anymore. Those rules were put in place to stop what the Pistons do, and in my opinion, have absolutely killed the flow of the game. EVERYTHING is a foul now.

[zero signal]

Other things overheard from Flip during timeouts;

"You guys get back out there and play better for me than ya did for Larry, ya hear"!

"Alright you guys, there on a 10-0 run, get out there and just play"!
:lol Classic.

[1Parker1]

COY in order:

1) Avery--anyone that can convince the Mavs of playing some semblance of defense has got to be considered for this award. Plus the fact they they are right there at the top with the Spurs...Avery's doing a great job.

2) Byron Scott--I really don't think he gets the credit he deserves, espesically considering after what he did in NJ. I know the Hornets are playing better in large part due to Chris Paul, but credit Byron Scott for keeping his players and their game afloat despite all the moving around and stuff.

3) Pop--For obvious reasons...the fact that Duncan and Manu weren't fully healthy and the Spurs still managed to be right there at the top...credit Pop's philosophy for keeping the Spurs slow and steady in the race to the top West spot.

4) Mike D'Antoni-- He's kept the Suns right up there at the top. I know it has a lot to do with Nash...however Mike is the one that created the Suns running game. Now he has them not only still running, but playing defense...and they've managed to stay right up there with the #2 seed, despite not having their #1 player. Also, credit Mike for recognizing and opening up Boris Diaw's game.

5) Flip--I really don't think he deserved COY either. Not because he already got a championship team or a team with a great starting 5. People credit Flip for opening up the Pistons offense. However, that's a little misleading. The only players who's offense has opened up are Chauncey and Rip. Prince, Rasheed, even McDyess have been taken out of their offensive flow under Flip's coaching game. I think down the stretch that is going to hurt the Pistons. As for defense, Flip certainly has not improved the Pistons defensively in anyway.

[mavsfan1000]

Avery Johnson is overrated as a coach. His substitution patterns have made me sick. It took Van Horn to get injured before Avery stopped playing him. Van Horn was the worst thing that happened to Dallas. He practically gave San Antonio the last 2 wins against Dallas. Hopefully we don't resign him. I'd rather see Josh Powell or Adrian Griffin as backup PF.

[Spurminator]

D'Antoni is running away with COTY this year. I don't think it's even close.

Of course, that's a rare award to repeat.

[DarkReign]

Avery Johnson is overrated as a coach. His substitution patterns have made me sick. It took Van Horn to get injured before Avery stopped playing him. Van Horn was the worst thing that happened to Dallas. He practically gave San Antonio the last 2 wins against Dallas. Hopefully we don't resign him. I'd rather see Josh Powell or Adrian Griffin as backup PF.

I'll take your word for it based on the fact that you probably watch every Mavs game.

But look at all time, first 100 games coached. Avery (I think) has already broken the record.

But yeah, my vote goes to D'Antoni. I was just giving more valid candidates for COtY besides Flip. Dont get me wrong, he deserves consideration, but any of these coaches would kill to inherit a team like the Pistons.