Rasheed Past vs. Rasheed Present

[Please_dont_ban_me]

How much has his game changed?

Why was he a villain then, and now he's a stud?



Media sickens me. I loved his game then too, because he always played Duncan tough. But people always bitched..."he gets too many t's" or "he doesn't want the ball in his hands in te clutch". The technicals complaint is legit, but what ever happened to the other complaint? You don't hear SHIT about it anymore.

The guy does what he does. Great Defense. Yells at refs. Acts goofy. NOW he's a stud? Get the fuck out of here.

[Darrin]

How much has his game changed?

Why was he a villain then, and now he's a stud?



Media sickens me. I loved his game then too, because he always played Duncan tough. But people always bitched..."he gets too many t's" or "he doesn't want the ball in his hands in te clutch". The technicals complaint is legit, but what ever happened to the other complaint? You don't hear SHIT about it anymore.

The guy does what he does. Great Defense. Yells at refs. Acts goofy. NOW he's a stud? Get the fuck out of here.

I think the biggest difference I have discovered about him since his arrival in Detroit is his defense.

[JamStone]

Not much difference at all, at least with respect to his game, other than adding more range on his jumper, and shooting more 3-point jumpers.

The difference in his attitude is WINNING. It changed everything. Being on a successful team will make a brash loudmouth into a classic local hero. As soon as the behavior hurts the team, fans and media alike will get down on a player. However, helping a team win a championship offers a lot of leniency for a long time.

I think Rasheed is also older and wiser. He probably doesn't smoke pot anymore ... or at least as much. His home life and family is likely more stable if not very strong. In Detroit, he doesn't have the poor relationship with the local media that he had in Portland, so he is not portrayed as surly and unaccomodating.

And, again, his team is winning. Winning does a lot for a professional athlete.

[baseline bum]

I think the biggest difference I have discovered about him since his arrival in Detroit is his defense.

Any Spurs fan will tell you Wallace was every bit the defensive monster he is on Detroit in the days when he was on Portland. Even in '99 when Duncan was coming off a series vs Shaq where he was dropping 33 a game, Wallace singlehandedly forced the Spurs to use David Robinson as option #1 on offense throughout the WCF.

[bdubya]

How much has his game changed?

Why was he a villain then, and now he's a stud?



Hard to say how much is change in his game v. change in his team, but as for "why", he went from villain to stud real quick when he
a) kicked an already-elite defense up to a historic level, and
b) won a title.

IMHO.

[Darrin]

Any Spurs fan will tell you Wallace was every bit the defensive monster he is on Detroit in the days when he was on Portland. Even in '99 when Duncan was coming off a series vs Shaq where he was dropping 33 a game, Wallace singlehandedly forced the Spurs to use David Robinson as option #1 on offense throughout the WCF.

I wasn't making a comment on his game, just my perception of him.

[polandprzem]

Any Spurs fan will tell you Wallace was every bit the defensive monster he is on Detroit in the days when he was on Portland. Even in '99 when Duncan was coming off a series vs Shaq where he was dropping 33 a game, Wallace singlehandedly forced the Spurs to use David Robinson as option #1 on offense throughout the WCF.
Wasn't Brian Grant mostly guarding Tim?

[Obstructed_View]

There was a time when 'sheed was mentioned in the same breath as the other stud 4s in the western conference. He, Webber, Duncan and Garnett were all interchangable and awesome. He then started getting T's, smoking out with Damon, getting arrested, saying he didn't want to be a goto guy and just plain acting creepy. I really thought LB was the reason he got his act together in Detroit, as 'sheed was a reclamation project that was not by any means without risk. We'll see how much control the team has over him if things go less than excellently at any point.

[jochhejaam]

How much has his game changed?

Why was he a villain then, and now he's a stud?



Media sickens me. I loved his game then too, because he always played Duncan tough. But people always bitched..."he gets too many t's" or "he doesn't want the ball in his hands in te clutch". The technicals complaint is legit, but what ever happened to the other complaint? You don't hear SHIT about it anymore.

The guy does what he does. Great Defense. Yells at refs. Acts goofy. NOW he's a stud? Get the fuck out of here.
The Pistons were 16-13 when they picked him up in '03-'04, 20 games later they were 33-16 and went on to win the NBA title. In '04-'05 Det again makes it to the Finals. In '05-'06 after 60 game the Piston's have the leagues best record.
None of this happens withoult Rasheed so yeah, he's a stud. (and so are 3 other Pistons)

[JamStone]

The Pistons were 16-13 when they picked him up in '03-'04, 20 games later they were 33-16 and went on to win the NBA title. In '04-'05 Det again makes it to the Finals. In '05-'06 after 60 game the Piston's have the leagues best record.
None of this happens withoult Rasheed so yeah, he's a stud. (and so are 3 other Pistons)


The Pistons were not 16-13 when they picked up Rasheed Wallace in 2003-04.

The Pistons were 34-23 ... 34-24 if you don't count the first game he played against Minnesota since he was not allowed to play in the second half due to mishandled paperwork.

The Pistons ended the season at 54-28.

So, after acquiring Rasheed Wallace, the Pistons ended that 2003-04 season 20-5, and won the title.

[Brutalis]

Hard to say how much is change in his game v. change in his team, but as for "why", he went from villain to stud real quick when he
a) kicked an already-elite defense up to a historic level, and
b) won a title.

IMHO.
:lmao :lmao :lmao

[DarkReign]

^ I hate you. Worthless individual that you are. Go play Halo on your console, kiddie.

[boutons_]

Sheed's always had way more talent, HoF level, than he has brains, maturity, or work ethic.

Just another tattooed balla (somewhat) wasting his enormous talent.
It's not to his credit that he hasn't screwed himself again in Detroit.
There are 100s of players who would be on their best behavior in the same situation.
I think he knows what fantastic situation he's in.

[Brutalis]

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

"I'm with stupid."

[JamStone]

Sheed's always had way more talent, HoF level, than he has brains, maturity, or work ethic.

Just another tattooed balla (somewhat) wasting his enormous talent.
It's not to his credit that he hasn't screwed himself again in Detroit.
There are 100s of players who would be on their best behavior in the same situation.
I think he knows what fantastic situation he's in.


I would agree to a certain extent. However, you do have to consider the type of guy Rasheed is to understand why his career does not necessarily mean he's wasted his talent. He does have HOF level talent and skill. But, he's never endeavored to be a HOF type player. He's generally been a team-first player, at least on the court. Technical fouls aside, Rasheed wants to play basketball with unselfishness and in order to win. Some critics have painted him as a go-to type player who didn't want to be a go-to guy. That's a fair criticism. It's also what defines him. He is more than content being one of the pieces to the puzzle without being the center of attraction. Detroit has been an extremely good situation for his personailty.

I would also agree to a certain extent that his maturity and work ethic should be called into question, but not his brains. His immaturity in Portland was directly related to his youth and temperment. He would often act out of emotion. And, while as you say he has always had the talent, he did notwork his tail off during the season and in the off-season to become a better player. And, who knows what he could have become had he done so.

But, as to his brains, Rasheed is far from stupid, in my opinion. I think he knows exactly what he's doing almost all of the time. And, I think he knows when he's doing something stupid on and off the court. I think he knew it was wrong to smoke marijuana, but that's what some young kids (16-24) do at that age. I think he knows he was wrong when he chased an official out on the loading dock of the Rose Garden. I think he knows he's hurting his team sometimes when he picks up technical fouls. But, his emotions get the best of him, and he can't stop sometimes. To me, that's more the inability to control his emotions that it is him being stupid. But, that's just my opinion.

I don't think he's wasting his talent. And, I think he's exactly where he wants to be at this point in his career.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Not much difference at all, at least with respect to his game, other than adding more range on his jumper, and shooting more 3-point jumpers.

The difference in his attitude is WINNING. It changed everything. Being on a successful team will make a brash loudmouth into a classic local hero. As soon as the behavior hurts the team, fans and media alike will get down on a player. However, helping a team win a championship offers a lot of leniency for a long time.

I think Rasheed is also older and wiser. He probably doesn't smoke pot anymore ... or at least as much. His home life and family is likely more stable if not very strong. In Detroit, he doesn't have the poor relationship with the local media that he had in Portland, so he is not portrayed as surly and unaccomodating.

And, again, his team is winning. Winning does a lot for a professional athlete.

I agree on most of that.

Sheed smoked pot? Or should I say...he got caught? I thought that was more of a Damon Stoudamire type thing.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Any Spurs fan will tell you Wallace was every bit the defensive monster he is on Detroit in the days when he was on Portland. Even in '99 when Duncan was coming off a series vs Shaq where he was dropping 33 a game, Wallace singlehandedly forced the Spurs to use David Robinson as option #1 on offense throughout the WCF.

Yep.

Him and Shaq are probably two guys that can play Timmy one-on-one and give him fits. Well, Shaq of the past when he dominated.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Hard to say how much is change in his game v. change in his team, but as for "why", he went from villain to stud real quick when he
a) kicked an already-elite defense up to a historic level, and
b) won a title.

IMHO.

That's my point.

It's sad that he is the same player pretty much...the media has smelly buttholes.

[JamStone]

news break from detroit:

rasheed wallace is SO GOOD at basketball that he won't make the hall of fame


We know. No one is stating or even indicating that Rasheed should be in the hall of fame.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Wasn't Brian Grant mostly guarding Tim?

The Blazers actually played more of a team defense on Tim.

It would be Augmon, Pippen, Grant, Sheed...all using there length on him.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Rasheed Wallace is not an elite defender

He's an above average athletic big body who is in a defense with other above average athletic big bodies that are all skilled in the "team defense" scheme

therefore
his defense appears better now than it was in Portland.

Just like Rasho's defense appears better now than when he was in Minny.

Wallace is not that good. Any powerforward that takes that many three's and jumpers is doomed to failure (see rasheeds jumpers in game 7------------------------------(wait for it)--------------------------------(it's coming)--------------------------------------------------------================================================== ===========================================>>>>>>0wnt.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

There was a time when 'sheed was mentioned in the same breath as the other stud 4s in the western conference. He, Webber, Duncan and Garnett were all interchangable and awesome. He then started getting T's, smoking out with Damon, getting arrested, saying he didn't want to be a goto guy and just plain acting creepy. I really thought LB was the reason he got his act together in Detroit, as 'sheed was a reclamation project that was not by any means without risk. We'll see how much control the team has over him if things go less than excellently at any point.

Alot of players don't want to be a go-to guy.

In fact, very few players want the ball in there hands in the clutch. The fact that he actually said it and was honest about it shouldnt' be a reason to villainise him.

LB didn't do anything, other than say "I believe in him. He's a good kid". But it was the same Sheed. He calmed down a little on the T's, but his game was almost the exact same. He'd shoot 3's, he'd post up...and Billups took most of the clutch shots.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

news break from detroit:

rasheed wallace is SO GOOD at basketball that he won't make the hall of fame

Thanks, dawg.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Rasheed Wallace is not an elite defender

He's an above average athletic big body who is in a defense with other above average athletic big bodies that are all skilled in the "team defense" scheme

therefore
his defense appears better now than it was in Portland.

Just like Rasho's defense appears better now than when he was in Minny.

Wallace is not that good. Any powerforward that takes that many three's and jumpers is doomed to failure (see rasheeds jumpers in game 7------------------------------(wait for it)--------------------------------(it's coming)--------------------------------------------------------================================================== ===========================================>>>>>>0wnt.

Lmao.

Sheed is not an elite defender? Lmao.





But for humor's sake, who do you consider an "elite" defender then?

[JamStone]

Wallace is not that good. Any powerforward that takes that many three's and jumpers is doomed to failure

Hence his team winning the 2004 NBA title.
Hence his team having back-to-back NBA finals appearance in 2005.
Hence his team having the best record in the 2005-06 season 60 games into the season.

Hence his all star selection by NBA coaches in 2006.

Absolutely DOOMED for failure ...

You don't have to wait for it ... disownt.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Your only competition was a dismembered lakers team...

When you guys had a real finals challenge, rasheed played like ass in game 7 and on the road.....wait for it.............................you LOST man.

In your real finals challenge, you lost like lil bitches. Rasheed choked, Chauncy chunked up a three right into Bruce Bowen's hand, and Rip got shut down by Tony Parker.

You lost. And that was with Larry Brown. That was before the East seriously started gearing itself to beat the Pistons. It's gonna be rougher. The West has already been geared up to beat the Spurs. For 2 or 3 seasons actually.

Pistons have benefitted from a moderate difficulty schedule and a good coach and bad ass starting line. Now you will have a tougher road, a shitty coach, and a bad ass startling line that has been played 38+ minutes a night.

LOL.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Your only competition was a dismembered lakers team...

When you guys had a real finals challenge, rasheed played like ass in game 7 and on the road.....wait for it.............................you LOST man.

In your real finals challenge, you lost like lil bitches. Rasheed choked, Chauncy chunked up a three right into Bruce Bowen's hand, and Rip got shut down by Tony Parker.

You lost. And that was with Larry Brown. That was before the East seriously started gearing itself to beat the Pistons. It's gonna be rougher. The West has already been geared up to beat the Spurs. For 2 or 3 seasons actually.

Pistons have benefitted from a moderate difficulty schedule and a good coach and bad ass starting line. Now you will have a tougher road, a shitty coach, and a bad ass startling line that has been played 38+ minutes a night.

LOL.



dis·mem·ber ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-mmbr)
tr.v. dis·mem·bered, dis·mem·ber·ing, dis·mem·bers
To cut, tear, or pull off the limbs of.
To divide into pieces.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dismembered







You do realize that happened after the Pistons took them to school, right?

You do realize the "dismemberment" led to one of the players (Shaq) leading his team to the Eastern Conference finals the next year. Right?


The Lakers were favored hugely. The Pistons molested them, unmercifully.

[JamStone]

Your only competition was a dismembered lakers team...

When you guys had a real finals challenge, rasheed played like ass in game 7 and on the road.....wait for it.............................you LOST man.

In your real finals challenge, you lost like lil bitches. Rasheed choked, Chauncy chunked up a three right into Bruce Bowen's hand, and Rip got shut down by Tony Parker.

You lost. And that was with Larry Brown. That was before the East seriously started gearing itself to beat the Pistons. It's gonna be rougher. The West has already been geared up to beat the Spurs. For 2 or 3 seasons actually.

Pistons have benefitted from a moderate difficulty schedule and a good coach and bad ass starting line. Now you will have a tougher road, a shitty coach, and a bad ass startling line that has been played 38+ minutes a night.

LOL.



Not even worth it anymore. You're a joke, dude.

[Marklar MM]

Our starters play 36+ or so. What does that say about Duncan playing 35.3 with plantar fascitis? Bowen is 35 and playing 34 mpg. Parker plays 35.

Are an extra 2 minutes a game going to mess with Rip, Billups, and Ben who are some of the best conditioned athletes in the league. Tayshaun is the only one who needs to lose a few minutes.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Our starters play 36+ or so. What does that say about Duncan playing 35.3 with plantar fascitis? Bowen is 35 and playing 34 mpg. Parker plays 35.

Are an extra 2 minutes a game going to mess with Rip, Billups, and Ben who are some of the best conditioned athletes in the league. Tayshaun is the only one who needs to lose a few minutes.

Plus, the addition of Cato will reduce Rasheed and Ben's minutes a little.

[Derek Fisher V0.4]

Your only competition was a dismembered lakers team...

When you guys had a real finals challenge, rasheed played like ass in game 7 and on the road.....wait for it.............................you LOST man.

In your real finals challenge, you lost like lil bitches. Rasheed choked, Chauncy chunked up a three right into Bruce Bowen's hand, and Rip got shut down by Tony Parker.

You lost. And that was with Larry Brown. That was before the East seriously started gearing itself to beat the Pistons. It's gonna be rougher. The West has already been geared up to beat the Spurs. For 2 or 3 seasons actually.

Pistons have benefitted from a moderate difficulty schedule and a good coach and bad ass starting line. Now you will have a tougher road, a shitty coach, and a bad ass startling line that has been played 38+ minutes a night.

LOL.

Any team can beat a dismembered team.......so why couldnt your san antonio spurs do just that

oh i know
wait............
MICHAELS: ''They get it to Fisher...............HE SCORES

DEREK FISHER SCORES AT THE BUZZER!!!!!

0.4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PWNED!!!!

[nkdlunch]

Any team can beat a dismembered team.......so why couldnt your san antonio spurs do just that

oh i know
wait............
MICHAELS: ''They get it to Fisher...............HE SCORES

DEREK FISHER SCORES AT THE BUZZER!!!!!

0.4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PWNED!!!!

u're 2 years late, mate

[Derek Fisher V0.4]

u're 2 years late, mate

Tell that to CANT BE FADED he was the one who brought up that dismembered team from 2 YEARS AGO

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Pistons = spurs wannabes with a coach that can't win in the playoffs.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You do realize the "dismemberment" led to one of the players (Shaq) leading his team to the Eastern Conference finals the next year. Right?



Eastern Conference Forum.

[Obstructed_View]

Alot of players don't want to be a go-to guy.

In fact, very few players want the ball in there hands in the clutch. The fact that he actually said it and was honest about it shouldnt' be a reason to villainise him.

LB didn't do anything, other than say "I believe in him. He's a good kid". But it was the same Sheed. He calmed down a little on the T's, but his game was almost the exact same. He'd shoot 3's, he'd post up...and Billups took most of the clutch shots.
You asked. I answered. The Blazers were paying him and were prepared to continue to pay him to be their superstar. He wasn't, didn't want to be, and didn't act like he was ever going to be. They traded him. The Rasheed in Portland and the Rasheed in Detroit are very different. Just count his technicals if you want tangible proof.

[bdubya]

Pistons = spurs wannabes with a coach that can't win in the playoffs.

Whistling past the graveyard.

[Darrin]

Guys, a little peace in our time. The Spurs won the series last season, take nothing away from that. The Pistons won the season before, don't take anything away from that. The last time I checked, Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson had never lost in the Finals before. The last time I checked, the Pistons entered that series as 7 to 1 underdogs.

The last time I checked, Shaquille O'Neal put up 36 points and 20 rebounds in a game, and LOST. The last time I checked, the Pistons became the first home team to sweep the middle 3 games of the 2-3-2 format.

In short, the Pistons didn't win against Los Angeles, they pounded them. Ask Shaquille O'Neal: "I believe I would be in LA still, if we had won the NBA Championship."

The Pistons did what Houston, San Antonio, and Minnesota couldn't do - beat the 2003-04 Los Angeles Lakers. If you expect the Pistons to respect the 2004-05 title, when the Pistons fought back from a 2-0 and 3-2 series deficit to tie the series each time, when the Pistons were playing their 2nd consecutive seven-game series, and lost the game in the final 12 minutes of the final game, then let's not cheapen the accomplishments of the 2003-04 Champions.

[DarkReign]

^ Dont speak logic to him. It makes his head hurt and his mouth make annoying sounds.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

You asked. I answered. The Blazers were paying him and were prepared to continue to pay him to be their superstar. He wasn't, didn't want to be, and didn't act like he was ever going to be. They traded him. The Rasheed in Portland and the Rasheed in Detroit are very different. Just count his technicals if you want tangible proof.

I already acknowledge his Technical fouls went down.

Other than that, he's still being paid the same. He's still playing the same style.

[Obstructed_View]

I already acknowledge his Technical fouls went down.

Other than that, he's still being paid the same. He's still playing the same style.
Actually he played a different style the two years he actually went to the Finals. He's back on the perimeter again now. We'll see if the Pistons have the talent to win that way.

[Marklar MM]

Actually he played a different style the two years he actually went to the Finals. He's back on the perimeter again now. We'll see if the Pistons have the talent to win that way.


Sheed is really hit or miss this year. He dominates games where he goes inside and outside, makes him hard to guard. But when he gets 3 happy, watch out. He will either be on fire, and make at least half, but there are some nights were he just doesn't stop shootin and goes for some number like 2-13, 1-12, etc.

[jochhejaam]

The Pistons were not 16-13 when they picked up Rasheed Wallace in 2003-04.

The Pistons were 34-23 ... 34-24 if you don't count the first game he played against Minnesota since he was not allowed to play in the second half due to mishandled paperwork.

The Pistons ended the season at 54-28.

So, after acquiring Rasheed Wallace, the Pistons ended that 2003-04 season 20-5, and won the title.
My bad, the Piston's did go from 16-13 to 33-16 that season but it was pre-sheed. Not sure what I was thinkin'.

[Darrin]

My bad, the Piston's did go from 16-13 to 33-16 that season but it was pre-sheed. Not sure what I was thinkin'.

You're not off-base, though. The Pistons went on a 13-game winning streak from December 29th to January 19th. Their high water mark came 7 games later (February 2nd) at 33-16. They preceded to lost six of their next seven to be 34-22 the day before they acquired Wallace.

The Pistons lost after Rasheed sat out the first game's 2nd half, gave away the next game in the final minute of to the 21-win Orlando Magic to have 1 win in their last 8 games. The Pistons, outside the win streak of 13 games, were 21-24 (.467).

The short of it is that they struggled. They didn't have an interior defender to compliment Ben Wallace (Cliff Robinson had been traded before the season). Larry Brown was using Mehmet Okur as a center for some reason (his height mostly), and the team as a whole was failing to grasp LB's system. Tayshaun Prince had too much pressure to be the third scorer of the team as a sophomore player, the first as a starter. That's why the deal was done.

From that point on, they won 20 of 24 games, held 5 straight opponents under 70 points (8 overall), the first team in the shot-clock era to not have a double-digit scorer when they beat the Nuggets 97-66 in Denver, and spent the final two months with a +13.8 margin of victory (95.3 PF vs. 81.6 PA).

Two 30+ wins
Four 20+ wins
Eight +15 wins
Three + 10 wins
Three Single-digit wins

*NO WINS WITH MARGIN SMALLER THAN 8*
*NO DOUBLE-DIGIT LOSSES*

They preceded to beat a Milwaukee team that was the fourth seed in the conference until the last day of the season (Jalen Rose sent them from 4th to 6th on the last day of the season), the Two-Time Conference Champion New Jersey Nets, the team with the best record in the NBA (61-21) in the Indiana Pacers, and the pre-season favorite to win the Championship, the Los Angeles Lakers.