flip saunders minor stat update

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Flip Saunders Postseason Record:


Postseason: 17-30


:rollin :rollin


pistons are gonna be too much to handle come postseason....they've got a certifiable coaching MASTERMIND behind the scenes :lol

[JamStone]

When the playoffs come, Flip will definitely miss more free throws and commit more turnovers than he did in the regular season. Flip just plays awful in the post-season. He choked in Minnesota, missing shot after shot in the playoffs. And, Flip just plays nervous in the post-season.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Spoken like true fan of the game who is not really used to high stakes playoffs.


There's a reason Larry Brown was being hailed as one of the best coaches of all time during last year's playoff run.

It's because your team went to game 7's against decent teams and he found a way to make your team win. It's not all the players. That's an ignorant view of the game.

Flip Saunders had arguably the best player in the game today on his team, and through that run, had some pretty damn good teams.

He's not a good coach. He gets owned by coaches like Pop used to get owned by Phil. Just wait. How many championships has this pistons team won against fully healthy teams? Exactly.

How many times has Flip been outcoached when hes had competitive teams? Exactly.


He's gotten out of the first round ONCE PEOPLE.

you're living a dream if you think flip will take you to the promised land.

[JamStone]

How about you actually wait until after this season's playoffs til you toot that claim.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

current pistons finals record

1-1

current spurs finals record

3-0


hahahahahhahahhaha and you have FLIP to take you there now

we have Popavitch hahaha this postseason is gonna be bad ass

[mavsfan1000]

Lets wait since this is by far the most talented team Flip has ever had.

[JamStone]

current pistons finals record

1-1

current spurs finals record

3-0


hahahahahhahahhaha and you have FLIP to take you there now

we have Popavitch hahaha this postseason is gonna be bad ass


Actually, current spurs finals record is 2-0.

Tim Duncan is the ONLY player left from the 1999 Spurs team.

[Marklar MM]

Good to see that you noticed Flip has a bad playoff record. Larry Brown was also sub .500 until he came to Detroit.

[FreshPrince22]

current pistons finals record

1-1

current spurs finals record

3-0


hahahahahhahahhaha and you have FLIP to take you there now

we have Popavitch hahaha this postseason is gonna be bad ass

Spurs record of getting to the finals after winning a title.... 0-2.

Hell, the Spurs have never made it out of the 2nd round following a Championship year.

:rolleyes

So I guess the Pistons finals record and the Spurs won't matter, because, going by the record, the Spurs won't make it past the Mavs :lol

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Spurs record of getting to the finals after winning a title.... 0-2.

Hell, the Spurs have never made it out of the 2nd round following a Championship year.

:rolleyes

So I guess the Pistons finals record and the Spurs won't matter, because, going by the record, the Spurs won't make it past the Mavs :lol


Spurs record of repeating 0-2

Pistons record of repeating 0-1

Spurs still have 100% more finals victories than pistons and 100% less losses.

Plus you have a coach who has proved nothing when it comes to outcoaching other coaches. Nothing. That is what will kill the pistons this year.



I guess Chauncy's gonna have to chunk a whollllle lotta threes into Bruce Bowen's hand this year to get to the finals :rollin

[FreshPrince22]

Spurs record of repeating 0-2

Pistons record of repeating 0-1

And 0-2 is better than 0-1? Sorry, but the Spurs have never even made it to the WCF after winning a title. They had a 1st round bounce and a 2nd round exit. The Pistons were 1 shot away.



Plus you have a coach who has proved nothing when it comes to outcoaching other coaches. Nothing. That is what will kill the pistons this year.

Yes, keeping crossing your fingers and hoping that it was Flip's fault not the PLAYERS. Keep looking the other way as the team has been in ruins since he left. Working on back-to-back trips to the draft lottery. But you're right, it was Flip. :rolleyes



I guess Chauncy's gonna have to chunk a whollllle lotta threes into Bruce Bowen's hand this year to get to the finals :rollin

Why? Has Bowen been traded to the east? I'm confused.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Spurs still have 100% more finals victories than pistons and 100% less losses.

[FreshPrince22]

Spurs still have 100% more finals victories than pistons and 100% less losses.

It doesn't matter if they don't get out of the 2nd round. :lol If you're going by history (and that is the key word), then you can't ignore that that is the trend.

[NCaliSpurs]

Spoken like true fan of the game who is not really used to high stakes playoffs.


There's a reason Larry Brown was being hailed as one of the best coaches of all time during last year's playoff run.

It's because your team went to game 7's against decent teams and he found a way to make your team win. It's not all the players. That's an ignorant view of the game.

Flip Saunders had arguably the best player in the game today on his team, and through that run, had some pretty damn good teams.

He's not a good coach. He gets owned by coaches like Pop used to get owned by Phil. Just wait. How many championships has this pistons team won against fully healthy teams? Exactly.

How many times has Flip been outcoached when hes had competitive teams? Exactly.


He's gotten out of the first round ONCE PEOPLE.

you're living a dream if you think flip will take you to the promised land.

I firmly believe coaches get too much credit when teams either win or they lose.

Ultimately, JamStone is correct in that Flip didn't blow it for the T'Wolves, and he won't blow it for the experienced, playoff savvy, Pistons.

[NCaliSpurs]

BTW, all this talk of repeating is nonsense. Each season is played completely independently of the last. This Spurs team isn't the same, and neither is the Pistons team.

We'll know who is better if they play each other.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm not saying flip is responsible for all of their losses, but you can't watch former playoffs and not realize that he's been outcoached time and time again.

This entire forum has even ridiculed his coaching skills on numerous occasions.

[mavsfan1000]

He's been outcoached but his team had some major weaknesses. No center and relying on midrange shots too much and the outside shooting wasn't there. I do agree that he isn't a great defensive coach but his offensive system seems to work and add that to the Pistons and that is a scary combo.

[FreshPrince22]

BTW, all this talk of repeating is nonsense. Each season is played completely independently of the last. This Spurs team isn't the same, and neither is the Pistons team.

We'll know who is better if they play each other.

I agree, CBF was just pissing me off with this garbage about Flip and the Spurs/Pistons records in the finals, so I had to throw it back in his face. The best team will win whether they won last year or not.

[DarkReign]

This guy is the biggest troll. You LOSE! Good day sir!

[mavsfan1000]

This guy is the biggest troll. You LOSE! Good day sir!
who are you talking to?

[Darrin]

current pistons finals record

1-1

current spurs finals record

3-0


hahahahahhahahhaha and you have FLIP to take you there now

we have Popavitch hahaha this postseason is gonna be bad ass

Pistons 3-2 in the Finals.
Spurs 3-0.

Otherwise we can't count the 1999 squad. David Robinson, Mario Elie, Avery Johnson, Malik Rose, Tim Duncan, Sean Elliott, Will Perdue, Steve Kerr, Jaren Jackson...where's Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen and Rasho Nesterovic?

You know, Rasheed Wallace had collapsed in the Conference Finals twice before he got here, Larry Brown had exactly one Finals game win, Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess had never been out of the first round, while Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton had never been to the postseason.

The moral of the lesson? We've heard this before.

[DarkReign]

who are you talking to?

Can_Be_Hated

[FreshPrince22]

who are you talking to?

Guilty Conscience? :lol

[mavsfan1000]

:lol Well it was either him or me but I had my share of trolling.

[JamStone]

you pissed-on fans are going to look so ridiculous again this spring when you have to take the wallace twins' schlongs out of your mouth and get on your knees for the repeat nba champion spurs

you stupid bitches :lol



When nothing smart to say, use a lot of vulgarity and profane imagery to make a point appear strong.

Good one.

[jochhejaam]

you pissed-on fans are going to look so ridiculous again this spring when you have to take the wallace twins' schlongs out of your mouth and get on your knees for the repeat nba champion spurs

you stupid bitches :lol
^^^^ Single digit I.Q. post. :tu

[mookie2001]

Tim Duncan is the ONLY player left from the 1999 Spurs team.whwwhw

whwta
w
whhwta
hwhhhat???????????????????????


does POP know about this!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

[rayray2k8]

Flip Saunders Postseason Record:


Postseason: 17-30


:rollin :rollin


pistons are gonna be too much to handle come postseason....they've got a certifiable coaching MASTERMIND behind the scenes :lol

you're an idiot...
:lol

YEA!!!!! 300!!! :elephant :smokin :fro :drunk :hat :spin

[mookie2001]

i dont think yall understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Tim Duncan is the ONLY player left from the 1999 Spurs team.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

jochchehhchhehadhfasdhfajjajejejejejejam changed his avatar!

[mookie2001]

Tim Duncan is the ONLY player left from the 1999 Spurs team

[Pistons < Spurs]

you pissed-on fans are going to look so ridiculous again this spring when you have to take the wallace twins' schlongs out of your mouth and get on your knees for the repeat nba champion spurs

you stupid bitches :lol


Idiot.

[mookie2001]

I like how the pistons fans have still know Det is better than SA
and det is better this year
sa is worse



yall IMAGINE
the calls that a healthy shaq, and his team are going to get in the playoffs
its going to be harder than they think to make their third straight finals

[mookie2001]

plus as jamstone pointed out (the biggest reason why the pistons are better)

Tim Duncan is the ONLY player left from the 1999 Spurs team

[himat]

we still have to wait because i'm thinking those crapp t-wolves were the chokers, and it wasn't flip.

[CubanMustGo]

Weren't a lot of us Spurs fans saying that with Flip as coach the Pistons were going to suck? I think the team's performance this year should earn Flip a little more respect than he had before coming to Detroit.

And before someone says "BFD, all he's done is continue what the Pistons did last year," my response to that is "exactly." If he couldn't coach they wouldn't be where they are today.

[mookie2001]

plus


Tim Duncan is the ONLY player left from the 1999 Spurs team

[Darrin]

If the Pistons win the Championship, and don't lose more than 3 games during the postseason, guess who's a .500 coach in the playoffs?

[mookie2001]

regardless



Tim Duncan is the ONLY player left from the 1999 Spurs team

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If

[Rummpd]

Duncan was out in 2000 - simple reason for end of Spurs run that year. A very strong LAL hit a very controversial miracle shot at 0.4 in 2004 to help take out the Spurs, then Malone got hurt and Pistons beat the Lakers. Last year Pistons got to finals by most sportswriters consensus due to Wade's injury (in my opinion that series could have gone either way). Still the resilient Spurs won their 2nd title in 3 years and their 3rd in 7.

Pistons have a single friggin title in years since the Bad Boy Pistons.

Enough of their fan's smack. They are a strong and formidable team but the truth is they have accomplished very little vs the Spurs this decade. If they win this year, and that is still a big if as the injured Spurs team they manhandled will not be the same team they face in the playoffs (and if they get past Miami) then they can take their props.

By the way I will take my faith in Pop over Flip Saunders any day.

[JamStone]

mookie2001,

I'm flattered, but I'm not single. Thank you for your interest, but if you could please get off of my dick, I would appreciate it. Thanks, friend.

[JamStone]

Duncan was out in 2000 - simple reason for end of Spurs run that year. A very strong LAL hit a very controversial miracle shot at 0.4 in 2004 to help take out the Spurs, then Malone got hurt and Pistons beat the Lakers. Last year Pistons got to finals by most sportswriters consensus due to Wade's injury (in my opinion that series could have gone either way). Still the resilient Spurs won their 2nd title in 3 years and their 3rd in 7.

Pistons have a single friggin title in years since the Bad Boy Pistons.

Enough of their fan's smack. They are a strong and formidable team but the truth is they have accomplished very little vs the Spurs this decade. If they win this year, and that is still a big if as the injured Spurs team they manhandled will not be the same team they face in the playoffs (and if they get past Miami) then they can take their props.

By the way I will take my faith in Pop over Flip Saunders any day.


What Pistons fans claim that the current Pistons team has accomplished more than the Spurs in this decade??? No other team in the NBA has been as successful as the Spurs in the last 10 years, especially with the Lakers not making the playoffs last season.

Why are you so concerned with the last decade? And does the last decade determine the outcome of this season? What does it matter?

Why, good doctor, do you need self affirmation? Don't respect the Pistons. I don't care. Think their championship was a fluke. That's fine. Think they get lucky because other teams get hurt. Hate on. While you get your panties all in a tizzy because you feel your precious Spurs don't get the respect you think they deserve, I'm asking you to hate on the Pistons. Please denegrate them. Disrespect them. Dismiss them.

I don't give a shit. I don't mind fans of other teams that need to hate on the Pistons and think they are pretenders. While you still need to justify the Spurs regular season losses to the Pistons with your side barbs of injury excuses. Pshaaa. Those games didn't even matter ... to either team. But, you still have to mention how the Spurs aren't that same team. Who cares? Apparently you need to remind yourself the Spurs are better than their performances against the Pistons this year to help you sleep at night.

For a guy who writes for a supposedly popular sportswebpage, you're about as unbiased as Barry Bonds on the topic of performance enhancement.

Go ahead and keep your rationales, your excuses, your feeling of self entitlement to having the best team over the last decade. Embrace it. Revel in it. And, use it to continue to put down the Pistons. LOL! That's funny to me. And, then wait for the playoffs, and we'll all see what's up. There's a chance NEITHER the Pistons OR the Spurs even get to the Finals. Oh dear heaven, what will you do then, Rummpd? I'll send you a box of kleenex if that happens.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

rummpd basically said what i have been saying, but less crudely, less insultingly and with more class

however hte underlying argument is still there

Pistons are no doubt playing 3lit3 this (regular) season...and they are champions...but they are not on the spurs level (yet)
There is no doubt that last year's spurs and pistons team were as closely matched as you can get...but when you got to the nitty gritty, you can't doubt that the Pistons collectively choked in that season-deciding fourth quarter.

Add this to the fact that all playoffs long we heard about how bad ass Larry Brown is, add again the fact that you now have a coach who has accomplished next to nothing in the playoffs, and I still fear last year's Pistons team more than this years.

If you don't want to read my non-crude post, then allow me to present a pictoral representation of the spurs-pistons relationship:

http://www.basket-plus.com/images/NBA/NBA%202004-05/Duncan_B.Wallace_kucanje.jpg

[JamStone]

Great drive and dunk by Timmy in that pic. That depicts last year's relationship between the Spurs and the Pistons. The Spurs were better than the Pistons last year.

Congrats again, 8 months later.

What has happened in the past is HISTORY. And, especially in a dynamic animal like professional sports, the history is there to refer to, but it in no way determines the future outcomes. The Spurs have been the class of the league for several years now. They deserve every accolade, every compliment. And, they could very well continue their success for years to come.

That does not guarantee a championship this year.

And, Flip Saunder's playoff failures does not guarantee a first round exit for the Pistons this year either. It's something Flip can look at and try to learn from. But, his playoff coaching on another team with different personnel is not a good gauge of how his team will perform this year in the playoffs. The players are not robots.

You can do your cute little smack talk and post Flip's playoff record for you to stroke your penis to. But, it's about as relevant as the fact that in the seven year span that the Spurs have won three championships, after the first two titles, the SPURS DID NOT EVEN MAKE IT TO THE NBA FINALS in the follwing year. Does that mean no Finals appearance this year for the Spurs? It means about as much as Flip's playoff record with the Minnesota Timberwolves does to the playoff chances of the current Detroit Pistons team.

At least with Flip, his most recent trip to the playoffs, he led his team to the Conference Finals series. If you want to refer to Flip's playoff record, you would have to realize that the Spurs have a bad history of not even making back-to-back NBA finals.

But, I'm sure you'll find some retort to refute how similar logic to your own presents a very unenviable problem to support an idea that the Spurs will be NBA champs again this season. It's ok. You're allowed to not respond if you can't think of anything to help your argument.

[Darrin]

You are a very funny man.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but remember when the spurs beat yall in 7 games
...ruined yall ugly style?

I don't know what it is but of course that was in the past, us country folk are slower

[Darrin]

Duncan was out in 2000 - simple reason for end of Spurs run that year. A very strong LAL hit a very controversial miracle shot at 0.4 in 2004 to help take out the Spurs, then Malone got hurt and Pistons beat the Lakers. Last year Pistons got to finals by most sportswriters consensus due to Wade's injury (in my opinion that series could have gone either way). Still the resilient Spurs won their 2nd title in 3 years and their 3rd in 7.

Pistons have a single friggin title in years since the Bad Boy Pistons.

Enough of their fan's smack. They are a strong and formidable team but the truth is they have accomplished very little vs the Spurs this decade. If they win this year, and that is still a big if as the injured Spurs team they manhandled will not be the same team they face in the playoffs (and if they get past Miami) then they can take their props.

By the way I will take my faith in Pop over Flip Saunders any day.


Are you kidding me?

The Spurs IN THIS DECADE:

1999-00: 53-29 - Lost to Suns, 3-1, first team not to repeat as Champions since 1985-86 Celtics. First Defending-Champion eliminated in first round since 1983-84 Sixers.
2000-01: 58-24 - Lost to Lakers in Conference Finals, 4-0.
2001-02: 58-24 - Lost to Lakers in West Semis, 4-2.
2002-03: 60-22 - 2nd NBA Championship in franchise history, Coach of the Year, Two-Time MVP for Duncan
2003-04: 57-25 - After 2-0 series lead, lose 4 straight games to the LA Lakers in Conference Semifinals. Second team since 1986 to not repeat as Champions. Only the 8th team in NBA history to lose series after 2-0 lead.
2004-05: 59-23 - 3rd NBA Championship in franchise history.
2005-06: 50-14 - Best start in franchise history.

395-161 (.710), 3 Divisional Titles, 1 top-seed in Conference, 3 Conference Finals Appearances, Two NBA Finals Appearances, Two NBA Championships.

1999-00: 42-40 - Swept 0-3 by Miami Heat. Grant Hill breaks ankle in 2nd quarter of game two, Pistons suffer their worst playoff loss at the Palace in game three and fewest points in a playoff game at home in franchise history (71).
2000-01: 32-50 - Did not make playoffs.
2001-02: 50-32 - First Division title since 1990, first 50-win season since 1997, First Coach of the Year since 1973-74, first Defensive Player of the Year since 1990-91, first Sixth Man of the Year in franchise history, first postseason series win since 1991.
2002-03: 50-32 - First number one seed in Conference since 1990, 8th team in NBA history to come back from a 3-1 series deficit, first road playoff win since 1997, first win in elimination game on the road since 1984, first series-clinching win on the road since 1990, first Conference Finals appearance since 1991.
2003-04: 54-28 - First appearance in NBA Finals since 1990, First home team in NBA history to sweep the middle 3 games of the 2-3-2 format. First NBA Championship since 1990.
2004-05: 54-28 - First Back-to-Back Finals Appearances since 1988-1990, first game-seven in Finals since 1988, 3rd team since 86 to not re-peat.
2005-06: 50-12 - Best record in franchise history through 62, 1st team in franchise history to have 4-All Stars.

332-222 (.599), 3 (soon-to-be 4) Divisional titles, 1 (soon-to-be 2) number one seeds in Conference, 3 Conference Finals Appearances, Two NBA Finals appearances, 1 NBA Championship.

The winning percentage not-withstanding (and the subject of rebuilding for the current era - 258-132 - .661 in last 5 seasons), those look like pretty much the same to me. Neither team has repeated as Champions, both teams have been to the Finals and Conference Finals the same amount of times.

This isn't the Dallas Mavericks - a team you have manhandled in the playoffs in both 2001 and 2003. A team that hasn't been to the Finals in 26 years of existence. This season will go a long way to how these two teams are remembered, but thus far, it looks like a statistical dead heat.

[Oscar DeLa]

statistical dead heat

I don't know what it is but too bad they didnt base the Finals on statistics!

[Darrin]

I don't know what it is but remember when the spurs beat yall in 7 games
...ruined yall ugly style?

I don't know what it is but of course that was in the past, us country folk are slower

What I remember is a dead-heat. I remember the Spurs winning the first 2 games by 20.0 ppg, limiting the Pistons to 69 points in game one. I remember the Pistons beating the Spurs by 24.0 ppg in games 3 and 4, including holding the Spurs to 71 points in game 3.

I remember an overtime affair where Tim Duncan missed free-throws in the waning seconds, and Chauncey Billups missed key jumpers down the stretch. I remember a 2-point Pistons lead that became a one-point deficit off of a Robert Horry three.

I remember the Pistons winning by nine, making all the key plays down the stretch for their first win in San Antonio since Tim Duncan was a senior at Wake Forest.

I remember a 9-point Pistons lead in the second half of game seven on the road. I remmber Tim Duncan shooting 3-17 in his first 20 shots. I remember Rasheed Wallace sitting on the bench and the Pistons still having the lead. I remember a 57-57 tie entering the fourth quarter. I remember the Spurs winning the game by spreading the floor with their shooting. I remember feeling like shit. I remember being happy for the Spurs.

I don't remember a beat-down.

[Oscar DeLa]

remember the Pistons beating the Spurs by 24.0 ppg in games 3 and 4
I don't know what it is but too bad its not a bestofwhocanwingames3and4athomeby24.0ormorepoints series

[Darrin]

I don't know what it is but too bad they didnt base the Finals on statistics!

I don't remember saying the Spurs didn't deserve the 2005 Championship.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Are you kidding me?

The Spurs IN THIS DECADE:

1999-00: 53-29 - Lost to Suns, 3-1, first team not to repeat as Champions since 1985-86 Celtics. First Defending-Champion eliminated in first round since 1983-84 Sixers.
2000-01: 58-24 - Lost to Lakers in Conference Finals, 4-0.
2001-02: 58-24 - Lost to Lakers in West Semis, 4-2.
2002-03: 60-22 - 2nd NBA Championship in franchise history, Coach of the Year, Two-Time MVP for Duncan
2003-04: 57-25 - After 2-0 series lead, lose 4 straight games to the LA Lakers in Conference Semifinals. Second team since 1986 to not repeat as Champions. Only the 8th team in NBA history to lose series after 2-0 lead.
2004-05: 59-23 - 3rd NBA Championship in franchise history.
2005-06: 50-14 - Best start in franchise history.

395-161 (.710), 3 Divisional Titles, 1 top-seed in Conference, 3 Conference Finals Appearances, Two NBA Finals Appearances, Two NBA Championships.




Spurs had the first seed in 2003 too
your stats are wrong




The winning percentage not-withstanding (and the subject of rebuilding for the current era - 258-132 - .661 in last 5 seasons), those look like pretty much the same to me. Neither team has repeated as Champions, both teams have been to the Finals and Conference Finals the same amount of times.

I guess .599 and .710 are not THAT different...





This isn't the Dallas Mavericks - a team you have manhandled in the playoffs in both 2001 and 2003. A team that hasn't been to the Finals in 26 years of existence. This season will go a long way to how these two teams are remembered, but thus far, it looks like a statistical dead heat

Eastern Conference....ahh the joys

[Oscar DeLa]

I guess .599 and .710 are not THAT different...
I don't know what it is but I took Statistics and Finite Math in college
and thats what we call a dead heat

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't remember a beat-down.


Maybe you don't remember the play-by-play action of the deciding final 4th quarter then.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

dead heat


:rollin

[mookie2001]

yes yes Darrin youve made your point
counting out that meaningless title in 99
2 titles is only 100% more than 1

we get it
the pistons have the advantage BECAUSE of flip...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

http://www.basket-plus.com/images/NBA/NBA%202004-05/Duncan_B.Wallace_kucanje.jpg

http://www.dallasnews.com/img/photo/10-05/1008block.jpg

[mookie2001]

I don't know what it is but too bad its not a bestofwhocanwingames3and4athomeby24.0ormorepoints seriesROFLROFLROFLROFL
no joke

[Darrin]

Spurs had the first seed in 2003 too
your stats are wrong


I guess .599 and .710 are not THAT different...

Yes, the whole thing is wrong because the Dallas Mavericks (60-22) and San Antonio Spurs (60-22) finished tied in 2003, and the site I visited listed them in Alphabetical order, not tie-breakers. Everything I wrote was dead-wrong.


Name me a player on those first two teams that are on the team today? Ben Wallace (2000-01) and Lindsey Hunter (1999-00), and Hunter wasn't here from 2000-2003.

In the last six seasons, after the Pistons pitiful re-building was completed, they are a .660 team. That's why I said "not that different."

[Cant_Be_Faded]

would the number of finals series lost be a valuable statistic

i mean if .599 is a dead heat with .710 surely this can provide insight as well

[Darrin]

yes yes Darrin youve made your point
counting out that meaningless title in 99
2 titles is only 100% more than 1

we get it
the pistons have the advantage BECAUSE of flip...


I'm not the one who said "in this decade."

The Spurs have accomplished more than the Pistons since 1992. That's a news flash.

[Darrin]

would the number of finals series lost be a valuable statistic

I assume you know the Conference Champions go to the NBA Finals, and the NBA Finals winner is an NBA Champion.

So when it says:

2 Conference Championships, 1 NBA Championship.
2 Conference Championships, 2 NBA Championships.

I assume you can do the math yourself.

[Darrin]

Eastern Conference....ahh the joys

That makes no sense! So I'm just supposed to overlook the fact that the Spurs won a Championship over the New Jersey Nets, a team that couldn't matchup with David Robinson and Stephen Jackson, much less Tim Duncan?

I didn't snicker at any of the Spurs accomplishments. I believe that they are the creme of the league. I envy their consistency, because as long as I have been watching basketball (1989-90), they have been at or near the top of the standings. They have had athletes that you can't help but admire - David Robinson, Terry Cummings, Avery Johnson, and Tim Duncan - while fighting off critics who call them 'soft.' Those amazingly high-character guys didn't stop at the coaches - Larry Brown, Bob Hill, John Lucas, and Gregg Popovich. And the drafting has been phenominal - they were at the forefront of international scouting as a way of gaining an edge over their competitors.

Whether it was the Utah Jazz or the Los Angeles Lakers, I wanted to see the Blazers, Sonics, Kings, and Spurs beat them. I don't like watching two-men teams. The Jazz, Lakers, and Bulls were the very definition of two-men teams. No matter the style of play, I've always enjoyed watching 5 guys compete, and not just fill one roll on the court.

One of the reasons why I was proud to see the Spurs win last season is that we could stop hearing about the dominant force of the Los Angeles Lakers under the tiring melodrama of Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, and Shaquille O'Neal. The Spurs have as many Championships as the Lakers in the same timeframe, Tim Duncan - much more fundamentally sound than Shaq - has just as many Finals MVPs, and one more regular season MVP.

In that same timeframe, I have watched the Pistons win Championships, and I watched them win 20 games. I remember when making the playoffs was a big deal, and winning 50 games was an accomplishment. I am forever thankful that Joe Dumars has returned the expectations of a successful season to mean an NBA Championship, and built the team in a 12-man concept. When this thing began, Dumars said that the Orlando Magic - all the contract shedding and instilling a hard-work mentality, building an attractive organization for free-agents - were the model.

Last summer, he said thier model is the Spurs, a team that consistently looks to win an NBA Championship. The Pistons want to be your team. If you need proof, check out the Palace rafters when they play the Heat on the 22nd. There are new Championship banners in place over the visiting bench. There was very little uniformity between 1989 (smaller print than the 1990 banner), 1990, and 2004 (no primary logo on the banner). They will remind you an awful lot of the Spurs'.

Every move made this season - setting the goal for home-court, creating more offense to overcome the scoring droughts, the personnel changes from Maurice Evans to Dale Davis and Kelvin Cato, even Tony Delk - have been made in preparation of an NBA Finals series with the San Antonio Spurs. Yes, Miami is in the Conference, but when you aim to be the best - like the Pistons did with the Celtics, the Bulls did with the Pistons - when it's that singular mind-set, you aren't preparing to beat all challengers? Beating the Heat isn't a rung on a ladder to getting back in the series with the Spurs?

My point with that post I made is that the Pistons are on the verge, the closest team to the Spurs since the 2002 Lakers flamed out. The only two teams to beat the Lakers in a playoff series are the Spurs and Pistons. The only team to win Championships are the Spurs and Pistons.

I'm not asking you to like the Pistons, simply to respect them.

[JamStone]

Darrin,

If you didn't know by now, there are some Spurs fans on this messageboard you just don't reason with. Debate, discuss, rebut, but never reason. Showing respect is just asking for more ridicule.

Don't try to kill them with kindness. Even that made me want to puke.

[DarkReign]

Yeah dude, just stop. Can_be_Hated is an asshole of the highest degree. he more or less spills shit out of his mouth every time he speaks. If he isnt pissing on someones parade, he isnt a complete person. Chalk it up to tough internet talk and e-peen polishing.

Literally, just ignore him. Ive yet to see a constructive post. Mookie though, hes cool as beans.

[Obstructed_View]

Darrin,

If you didn't know by now, there are some Spurs fans on this messageboard you just don't reason with. Debate, discuss, rebut, but never reason. Showing respect is just asking for more ridicule.

Don't try to kill them with kindness. Even that made me want to puke.
Oh, dear. It's almost as if this were a message board for a team other than the Pistons. :rolleyes

[mookie2001]

more like dookie, cock_blowing_faggot and elbitcho

[Cant_Be_Faded]

His Post Season coaching is horrible and now you realize the prophecy may be true.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I didn't see it before, but I sure as hell do now...

Flip, you blow...

[bdubya]

you pissed-on fans are going to look so ridiculous again this spring when you have to take the wallace twins' schlongs out of your mouth and get on your knees for the repeat nba champion spurs

you stupid bitches :lol

Flip DOES suck as a playoff coach. But seeing this thread resurrected still may be worth it, just so we can revisit THAT post...

[FreshPrince22]

Flip is GONE. Regardless of the outcome of this series. Book it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

dude, yall are making cavalier's defense look good, which every decent basketball fan knows is not the case

the refs did make some BS calls, but that play for rip in the corner? wtf?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Also, don't forget who Mike Brown learned the ropes from :smokin

[sprrs]

I'm still puzzled by seeing Rasheed Wallace sitting on the bench for the final three minutes. . . . .

[bdubya]

I'm still puzzled by seeing Rasheed Wallace sitting on the bench for the final three minutes. . . . .

I'm not. Do you give up Dice's hot hand, or Ben's rebounding to bring him back?

[ShoogarBear]

LMAO. Has Piston Nation truly turned against Flip this early, or is this just the emotional response of you guys to the current situation?

If Detroit loses this series, then yeah, I expect you guys to have his head on a stick. Still, it wouldn't shock anyone to see the Pistons win it in 7. But if they do it won't be because of Flip.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I'm not. Do you give up Dice's hot hand, or Ben's rebounding to bring him back?


Or Ben's poor FT shooting? With CB fouling out, the smart play would have been for them to bring in Rasheed for Ben. Having Lindsey and Ben on the floor at the same time really limited the Pistons' on that last possession...

What good is it to save 'Sheed's 6th foul when you lose?

[sprrs]

I'm not. Do you give up Dice's hot hand, or Ben's rebounding to bring him back?

And Ben's free throw shooting? I didn't see the whole game, so I don't know how hot Dice was, but you still always put in your money players when the games are that tight.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

LMAO. Has Piston Nation truly turned against Flip this early, or is this just the emotional response of you guys to the current situation?

If Detroit loses this series, then yeah, I expect you guys to have his head on a stick. Still, it wouldn't shock anyone to see the Pistons win it in 7. But if they do it won't be because of Flip.


I saw enough tonight to see how limited his brain is. And where is the genius offensive mind of his?

Maybe if he didn't have his head stuck up his ass...

[FreshPrince22]

I've been on Flip's case since mid-way through the season. You could slowly see the players slipping away. He is an offensive coach whose offensive system (SHOOT IT!) doesn't work in the playoffs, and he ignores defense entirely. He has no clue what the word "adjustments" means, and his rotations are shoddy.

The Pistons won a ton of regular season games because the offense is different from almost every other team. So it's tough to adjust to in the flow of the regular season. In the playoffs it's not. They look for jumpers rather than layups. It took a rookie coach less than 2 games to have it figured out perfectly.

[Leetonidas]

WTF wrong topic.

[ShoogarBear]

I hate to say this, but this is exactly what a bunch of us were saying about Flip at the beginning of the year. The Pistons players would do well because they wanted to show they didn't need Larry. But now they need coaching, and Flip's not up to the job.

[bdubya]

I hate to say this,

Riiiiight. Sure you do.

[Darrin]

LMAO. Has Piston Nation truly turned against Flip this early, or is this just the emotional response of you guys to the current situation?

If Detroit loses this series, then yeah, I expect you guys to have his head on a stick. Still, it wouldn't shock anyone to see the Pistons win it in 7. But if they do it won't be because of Flip.


Since I see this as a long-term problem that pre-dates Flip Saunders, he gets a pass from me. I'm sure some could say he was brought in here to fix the problems from last season, but I have always regarded him as a man piloting a plane on autopilot, which was fine for this team.

If he wasn't responsible for the success, why would I blame him for the failure?

[RON ARTEST]

Flip is GONE. Regardless of the outcome of this series. Book it.
i think so also.

[polandprzem]

we will see how strong the Pistons are now. They still are a better team, they just must to pickup their $h!t together and win on a road.
Btw. what is Flip doing so wrong?

ps. I admire your patiance (det fans) to talk with (some) spurs fans.

[jochhejaam]

Dang, even our Toledo (Ohio) newspaper columnist is gettin' on Flip!

Cavaliers' Brown is getting the better of Pistons' Saunders


AUBURN HILLS, Mich. - Flip flopped.

Mike Brown's Cleveland Cavaliers have been outperforming Flip Saunders' Detroit Pistons in the Eastern Conference semifinals.

Cleveland held off Detroit 86-84 last night at the Palace to claim a stunning 3-2 series lead with Game 6 tomorrow night in Cleveland. The Cavaliers weren't supposed to win this series; some skeptics doubted if they would win a game against the NBA's best team during the regular season.

Now that the Nike's on the other foot, Cleveland needs just one more win to pull off one of the biggest upsets in recent playoff history.

The playoffs are all about star players leading the way. Cleveland's LeBron James scored a game-high 32 points, grabbed five rebounds and dished out five assists.

The playoffs are also about the coaching - always have been, always will.

So what this does is put more emphasis on the quality of coaching. And more pressure on the coaches.

Especially in these playoffs. And especially in the fascinating Cleveland-Detroit series, where Brown is clearly coaching the pants off of Saunders in the battle of coaches in the first years with their teams.

Brown took over a tough job. Coaching LeBron isn't easy - the expectations are enormous. Just ask Paul Silas.

By comparison, Saunders stepped into a perfect situation, replacing Larry Brown and taking over a team that appeared in two straight NBA finals.

Keeping Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince happily motivated and productive doesn't compare to building team chemistry around James with Flip Murray, Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall, Drew Gooden, Anderson
Varejao, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Damon Jones.

Getting the Pistons to stick with a proven system doesn't compare to getting James to trust his less-talented teammates.

Mike Brown has been one step ahead of Saunders all series. Playing the last three games without shooting guard Larry Hughes, who left the team following a death in the family, Brown developed a two-man game with James passing inside to Varejao.

Brown played smallball in Games 3 and 4 in Cleveland, as Varejao, Snow and Marshall played prominent roles. When the series returned to the Palace last night, Brown called on Ilgauskas, the tallest player on the floor, and he responded with a series-best 14 points, 10 rebounds and six blocks.

"Every game for us is a growing and learning experience," said Brown, whose Cavs were routed 113-86 in Game 1 but rallied to win three straight after losing the first two games. "Our guys fought, stayed composed and found a way to win."

Under Saunders, whose Minnesota Timberwolves teams had a history of underachieving in the playoffs, Detroit has now lost three straight playoff games for the first time since the 2004 Eastern Conference semifinals against New Jersey. Trailing 3-2, the Pistons rallied to defeat the Nets in seven games.

Saunders is presiding over a unique situation in Detroit, where the Pistons won a title when he was coaching another team. Saunders isn't responding well to the pressure.

"They're human beings. In different situations, you can play a little bit tighter at times," he said.

In each of the last two games, Rasheed Wallace has been on the bench when Detroit needed a bucket late. Last night Ben Wallace, who's shooting 32 percent from the free throw line in the playoffs, was still on the floor in the final minute and missed two free throws with the score tied 84-84. Saunders also didn't play reserve guard Tony Delk despite needing more perimeter scoring.

Cleveland is beating Detroit on the court, and Mike Brown is besting Saunders on the sideline.

-John Williams- Toledo Blade

[Marklar MM]

Answer me this question.

Why did Flip not tell Billups and Hamilton to give the ball to McDyess? He was the only one who could hit a shot.

[Vizzini]

Or Ben's poor FT shooting? With CB fouling out, the smart play would have been for them to bring in Rasheed for Ben. Having Lindsey and Ben on the floor at the same time really limited the Pistons' on that last possession...

What good is it to save 'Sheed's 6th foul when you lose?


Rasheed was out there on the last possesion, he was the one just to the right of the top of the key, with Gooden on him, and Lindsey Hunter was the one at the left elbow wide open, and the ball gets thrown into a double teamed Rip in the corner. I'd take a wide open three from Hunter anyday over Rip double teamed in the corner.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Mike Brown (WHO, WHO?) MIKE BROWWWWWWWWN

[Bob Lanier]

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1402/flipfear4la.jpg :madrun

[ShoogarBear]

Ex-Spur coaches are regulating the playoffs.

[T Park]

Greg Anthony just ripped Flip a freakin new asshole on NBA shootaround :lmao


I mean, is this REALLY that surprising?

HONESTLY!!!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

What did he say?

[ShoogarBear]

Hmmm.

And Larry Brown thinks he's going to be fired.

Hmmm.

[sickdsm]

Who's the Negrodamaus on this topic?


Say my name, say my name!

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol, flip is gone for sure at the end of the season..sure the pistons have scored more and won more games then any other pistons coach but the starting 5 have also played way better billups played his best season of his career..flip teaches good offence but in the end he failed as a coach..cassell could coach better then flip

[Cant_Be_Faded]

When the playoffs come, Flip will definitely miss more free throws and commit more turnovers than he did in the regular season. Flip just plays awful in the post-season. He choked in Minnesota, missing shot after shot in the playoffs. And, Flip just plays nervous in the post-season.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yes, keeping crossing your fingers and hoping that it was Flip's fault not the PLAYERS. Keep looking the other way as the team has been in ruins since he left. Working on back-to-back trips to the draft lottery. But you're right, it was Flip. :rolleyes



I'll be bumping this thread in a few months.

[sickdsm]

Weren't you the one calling people idiots for saying that Flip was overated FreshPrince22?

If they win it will be despite having him as a coach, not bc of it.

I think you need to some big time kissing up. The only one on this board who has changed stances faster was TPark in a series clinching moment.

[FreshPrince22]

Weren't you the one calling people idiots for saying that Flip was overated FreshPrince22?

If they win it will be despite having him as a coach, not bc of it.

I think you need to some big time kissing up. The only one on this board who has changed stances faster was TPark in a series clinching moment.

All I said is I would give him the benefit of the doubt untill he proved me wrong. I wasn't gonna bash the guy for not doing well in the post-season with a team that now can't even sniff the playoffs without him. He's getting his chance.... If he blows it. He blows it. Period.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

hahaha, just bustin balls dude

[sickdsm]

That's all you said?


You mean all this back and forth bitching between everyone and you/other piston fans was because you merely said to give him the benefit of the doubt?



Fuck, Flip's team is still alive in the playoffs and you turn tail like a little BITCH on your words a few months ago.

[FreshPrince22]

That's all you said?


You mean all this back and forth bitching between everyone and you/other piston fans was because you merely said to give him the benefit of the doubt?



Fuck, Flip's team is still alive in the playoffs and you turn tail like a little BITCH on your words a few months ago.

Still alive... Maybe it's just the Pistons doing their normal routine afterall. :lol They've won a game 7 in each of the last 3 years.

Good luck in the draft lottery, BTW...

[sickdsm]

I'm not quite sure, is that supposed to be a dig at me?

Your team>>>> my team


My basketball knowledge>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all piston bitches on here combined.

Nice offense last night flip.

[DarkReign]

I'm not quite sure, is that supposed to be a dig at me?

Your team>>>> my team


My basketball knowledge>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all piston bitches on here combined.

Nice offense last night flip.

Fuckhead 1: My dick is bigger than yours!
Fuckhead 2: No, mine is bigger than yours!
Fuckhead 1: Wrong again, mine is!
Fuckhead 2: No, mine!
Fuckhead 1: Mine!
...
...
...

Hows fishing going?

[sickdsm]

Giving me time enough to do my homework to put you in your place next year.................Again.



Let me know when your willing for me to teach you basketball 101.



Admitting your wrong takes a man, so far NO piston fan has said "I was completly wrong about Flip" They just take the route of sidestepping what they said/thought in the past.


This is Detroits last year with a shot at winning it, barring a noteworthy trade under this regime.

Better enjoy it. Been there, done that. Two years ahead of you bitch.

[JamStone]

Flip definitely has some deficiencies as a playoff coach. And, he's very stubborn. Sure, he appears to be a regular season coach.

But, I'll go back to what I said months ago, great players make a coach look great. Bad players makes a coach look bad.

While a great coach might be a difference, that's more the exception than the rule. Ultimately, success is on the players.

Getting rid of Flip Saunders seemed to do wonders for the Minnesota Timberwolves, right?

[Bob Lanier]

Neither Kevin McHale nor Dwane Casey are upgrades over Flip, though.

While personnel obviously matters, a great coach always makes a difference for a great team.

I was wrong about Flip. Not completely wrong, but wrong nonetheless.

[sickdsm]

Sigh, Don't make me lecture you when school's out Piston fan. I don't get paid for it then.


Flip's team got blown up. How good would Flip have done with Yaric, huddy and Justin Reed? Who's to know. But we DO know that Flip's team have consistantly done one of two things.


1. Overachieved during the regular season

OR

2. Underachieved during the postseason.


We can point to WCF run all you'd like but the truth be told when you have a better team the following year, and its blown up by ego's, that's 100 percent on the coach. THat's not even debateable.


The Pistons will have to go 8-0 from here on out to match what they were doing during the regular season, anything less than that and its an underachievement. You mean to tell me that a team that has every one (except the only fucker that knows flip) talking 70 plus wins can be the same team staving off two elimination games from LeBron and trash?



Pistons are struggling BC of Flip. I said it preseason and all the national ass-kissers are now tearing Flip's coaching apart, let alone some closer to Detroit.


Flip was touted as a great coach before the pistons inked him, don't try to hide from that. I saw through all his bullshit years ago. He was touted as a great coach bc of KG.


Quick quiz:

What's Flip known for most?


His offense

What is/has always been KG's weak point?


His offense

What position player is Flip supposed to help the most?

PG

What top five MVP candidate has not overplayed as well as the others in the playoffs?


Billups, starting PG


What strategy did Flip utilize the year his backup PG was hurt the full season during MN WCF run?

Pray to God an injury won't happan and wear the hell out of his starting PG.

Ultimately what strategy did his great NBA PG mind utilize during said injury?

Let your PF bring the rock up and hand it to your shooting guard and set up your offense with 12 seconds left on the clock.

[sickdsm]

Neither Kevin McHale nor Dwane Casey are upgrades over Flip, though.

While personnel obviously matters, a great coach always makes a difference for a great team.

I was wrong about Flip. Not completely wrong, but wrong nonetheless.



I do think Casey is an upgrade long term.


McHale is/always has been just as much of the problem though as Flip.


I admire you admitting your wrong but i don't know you from adam so i'll preach until JamStone, Fresh Prince, JocceJame? or a couple others i know admit.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I just want to see how this strategy of "countering" hack-a-Ben with hack-a-Shaq works out, if both teams go to it. If I'm Miami I'd try to sucker Detroit into doing it, as right now Shaq is a significantly better freethrow shooter than Ben, (I didn't think I'd ever be able to say that about Shaq :)) so if the numbers hold up Miami would just be making up a bunch of points pretty quickly.