P Robertson rousing the rabble against Islam.

[boutons_]

Top US evangelist targets Islam

Outspoken US Christian evangelical broadcaster Pat Robertson has accused Muslims of planning world domination, and said some were "satanic". On his live television programme, The 700 Club, he said radical Islamists were inspired by "demonic power".

A US religious liberty watchdog called the comments "grossly irresponsible".

Mr Robertson had to apologise recently for calling for Venezuela's president to be killed, and saying Ariel Sharon was struck down by divine retribution.

His latest comments were expunged from The 700 Club's website, but Mr Robertson's Virginia-based Christian Broadcasting Network confirmed them with a transcript.

'Crazed fanatics'

On the programme, the 75-year-old preacher responded to a news item about the reaction of Muslims in Europe to the publishing of cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad.

The footage showed Muslims screaming "May Allah bomb you! May Osama Bin Laden bomb you!"

Mr Robertson said the pictures "just shows the kind of people we're dealing with. These people are crazed fanatics, and I want to say it now: I believe it's motivated by demonic power. It is satanic and it's time we recognize what we're dealing with".

He went on to say that "Islam is not a religion of peace", and "the goal of Islam, ladies and gentlemen whether you like it or not, is world domination".

Mr Robertson said in a statement later he was referring specifically to terrorists as being motivated by Satan.

'Gasoline on the fire'

The Reverend Barry W Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, called the comments "grossly irresponsible".

"At a time when inter-religious tensions around the world are at an all-time high, Robertson seems determined to throw gasoline on the fire," he said.

Mr Robertson, who says his programme is watched by a million Americans daily, has come under intense criticism for recent comments.

He suggested that American agents should assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez , and said the stroke that left Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in a coma was God's punishment for Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

In both cases he issued an apology within days.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4805952.stm

Published: 2006/03/14 15:37:36 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[Oh, Gee!!]

Pat Robertson is the face of the new Republican party.

[Extra Stout]

I think Pat is falling into senility. He's lost that filter between "keep this thought to myself" and "blab this thought on national TV."

[Crookshanks]

Pat Robertson is right - the radical Muslims want total world domination. They want nothing more than to wipe the United States and Israel off the map.

Also, evil is perpetuated by Satan; and since the Jews are God's chosen people, they are a specific target of Satan's hatred. The radical muslims want Israel wiped off the map and totally anniliated as a nation - is it really such a stretch to say this hatred is motivated by Satanic influence?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Pat Robertson is right - the radical Muslims want total world domination. They want nothing more than to wipe the United States and Israel off the map.

Also, evil is perpetuated by Satan; and since the Jews are God's chosen people, they are a specific target of Satan's hatred. The radical muslims want Israel wiped off the map and totally anniliated as a nation - is it really such a stretch to say this hatred is motivated by Satanic influence?

somebody subscribes to the 700 Club newsletter.

[Crookshanks]

somebody subscribes to the 700 Club newsletter.

Actually, no I don't. I just read the Bible and I love end-times prophecy.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Actually, no I don't. I just read the Bible and I love end-times prophecy.


which verse says Islamists are trying to take over the world?

[Mr. Peabody]

which verse says Islamists are trying to take over the world?

Was Islam in existence when the Bible was written? Isn't Islam a fairly new religion? By 'new' I mean the last 1000 or so years.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Was Islam in existence when the Bible was written? Isn't Islam a fairly new religion? By 'new' I mean the last 1000 or so years.


When was the Bible written?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I'll preface this post by saying that I am a secularist, I do believe in divinity, but i dont really believe in organized religion, prefering deism.

Now while I will acknowledge that Robertson is a first class idiot and he seems to lack the ability to recognize consequences, there are some very violent aspect of Islam. I have just finished reading a book by another secularist (whom i was at first skeptical of due to him comming from the Jewish tradition, however the book is almost entirely empiricall and quoranic evidence) on the tradition of Jihad in Islam. The book is "The legacy of Jihad" by Andrew Bostom. Bostom illustrates the Muslium want of empire and the cultural acceptance of violence to achieve that.

Now that being said, I fail to understand why anyone would group ALL musliums in this kind of category, especially when one understands the lenghts the violence the more extremist members of that community are capable of. It's mind boggling why anyone would want to provoke a response from a monster, and that's what robertson is doing here.

[Mr. Peabody]

When was the Bible written?

I dunno, 100 or 200 CE.

[Crookshanks]

Sorry I wasn't completely clear in my previous post - I didn't mean that the Bible says the Muslims want world domination - that information comes from the Islamic leaders themselves.

I was referring to the comment about the Satanic influence fueling the hatred for the Jews - that comes from the Bible.

While the Islamic religion wasn't around during the time the Bible was written, the roots of the Muslim race and their hatred of the Jews goes back to the time of Abraham. Abraham was the father of Isaac (the root of the Jewish nation) and Ishmael (the father of the Muslim race). Because of Abraham's sin in having a child with Hagar (Ishmael's mother) instead of waiting on God for the fulfillment of the promise of a child with Sarah (Isaac's mother), God said that the two races would forever be at odds. Hence, the problems in the Middle East!

[Oh, Gee!!]

I dunno, 100 or 200 CE.


Why must you mock me?

[Mr. Peabody]

Why must you mock me?

Do you know what 'CE' means? Do you know why we use BCE and CE instead of BC and AD?

[Crookshanks]

Do you know what 'CE' means? Do you know why we use BCE and CE instead of BC and AD?

Yes, it's the secular humanist's way of denying the existence of God and Jesus Christ!

[Oh, Gee!!]

Yes, it's the secular humanist's way of denying the existence of God and Jesus Christ!

damn liberals.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Do you know what 'CE' means? Do you know why we use BCE and CE instead of BC and AD?

.....and that's why Hitler hated the Jews.

[Mr. Peabody]

.....and that's why Hitler hated the Jews.

Is it "the Jews" or "Jews"?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Is it "the Jews" or "Jews"?

we're wasting our lives

[Mr. Peabody]

we're wasting our lives

What are you talking about? I got higher education credit hours for a discussion almost identical to this very one.

[boutons_]

"end-times prophecy"

... so bored with life only simplistic good-vs-evil armageddon bullshit gets your rocks off.

[Oh, Gee!!]

What are you talking about? I got higher education credit hours for a discussion almost identical to this very one.

hmmmm


You are obviously a product of the Texas public education system.

[danyel]

So its now a race between Islam, Jews and Pinky & the Brain to dominate the world...

My vbookie money is on Pinky & the Brain, and I'm always on the money.

[danyel]

I think the homos are taking over.

If you cant beat'em, join'em

[Ocotillo]

The Bible does warn of false prophets......

Mohammed?

[xrayzebra]

Pat Robertson is the face of the new Republican party.

Really, like Farakan (sp) is the new face of the Dimm-o-craps?

[Extra Stout]

I don't buy into the notion that ordinary Muslims are a bunch of Islamo-terrorzombies bent on nothing but eating Christian and Jewish brains because Satan is controlling them.

However, I'm starting to have real doubts they can coexist peacefully with the West, and that cartoon flap was extremely discouraging.

[jochhejaam]

There is a faction of Muslims who's creed is to "convert the World to Islam, if necessary by force".

I don't think Robinson (sic) is putting all Muslims into the category it's just that the minority radical factions of that religion are > than the majority that would prefer a peaceful co-existense with the rest of the World.
A powerful, radical, violent minority's agenda carries much more clout that that of a pacificistic, frightened majority.

[Medvedenko]

It's not about tolerance, it's about diversity.....
If God or some higher power exists and created each human, he created each religion as well....there's a reason for this....One truth shouldn't denounce another....

[Crookshanks]

If God or some higher power exists and created each human, he created each religion as well....there's a reason for this....One truth shouldn't denounce another....

Sorry, but you're wrong. The bible clearly states that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the father except through him. God also said (in the ten commandments) that we should have no other Gods but him. That certainly rules out Buddhism and Hinduism. All other religions are corrupted versions of the true gospel of Christ and are the result of men thinking they know more than God.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Sorry, but you're wrong. The bible clearly states that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the father except through him. God also said (in the ten commandments) that we should have no other Gods but him. That certainly rules out Buddhism and Hinduism. All other religions are corrupted versions of the true gospel of Christ and are the result of men thinking they know more than God.


how do you know the Bible is true?

[Mr. Peabody]

how do you know the Bible is true?

Because it is the Word of God and God wouldn't lie.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Because it is the Word of God and God wouldn't lie.

that's settled. Next topic, please.

[Mr. Peabody]

God also said (in the ten commandments) that we should have no other Gods but him.

I know a lot of people worship Christ, so does Christ count as a god that we have?

[Crookshanks]

I know a lot of people worship Christ, so does Christ count as a god that we have?

Have you ever heard of the concept of the Trinity? God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ IS God!

[Mr. Peabody]

Have you ever heard of the concept of the Trinity? God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ IS God!

The Trinity? You mean the notion that there are three distinct entities that are God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), but there is only one God.

I have heard of it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The Trinity? You mean the notion that there are three distinct entities that are God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), but there is only one God.

I have heard of it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

Thanks, Peabody. Now Crookshanks is going to quote the entire book of Revelations.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

and here is where i will stop reading, countdown till fundy explosion in four, three, two...

[ChumpDumper]

The bible clearly states that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the father except through him.So how are the Jews the chosen people if they don't come to the father through Jesus (who is God, as is the Holy Spirit, but you really don't need to go through him, just Jesus, unless you're a Jew, who can just believe in God, not Jesus, even though Jesus is God and they wouldn't be believing in God if they don't believe in Jesus....)

[Mr. Peabody]

So how are the Jews the chosen people if they don't come to the father through Jesus (who is God, as is the Holy Spirit, but you really don't need to go through him, just Jesus, unless you're a Jew, who can just believe in God, not Jesus, even though Jesus is God and they wouldn't be believing in God if they don't believe in Jesus....)

It is easily explained. You see, Jesus is God and the Father is God, but Jesus is not the Father and there is only one God.

Oh, and neither Jesus nor the Father are the Holy Spirit, which is God as well.

[boutons_]

"So how are the Jews the chosen people"

Just like some Christian fringe groups are chosen to be The Best: they choose themselves.

[jochhejaam]

and here is where i will stop reading, countdown till fundy explosion in four, three, two...
Slap and run? That's a lame M.O. fundaphobic.

[Extra Stout]

So how are the Jews the chosen people if they don't come to the father through Jesus (who is God, as is the Holy Spirit, but you really don't need to go through him, just Jesus, unless you're a Jew, who can just believe in God, not Jesus, even though Jesus is God and they wouldn't be believing in God if they don't believe in Jesus....)
I think you have to be Dispensationalist to understand. According to Dispensationalists, God changes the rules for salvation every so often. The most recent time, he was upset with his chosen people, the Jews, because he had changed the rules again and sent Jesus Christ to save them, but they rejected him since they were perfectly fine with the old sacrificial order, so instead he decided to save the Gentiles out of spite. However, he's only doing this to make the Jews jealous, and once they come around, he's going to focus on them again. Saved Gentile Christians are like honorary Jews.

I think the Dispensationalists are kinda goofy, so neither do I subscribe to their eschatology (Dispensational Premillenialism), which explains my utter disinterest in "end-times prophecy."


The Trinity? You mean the notion that there are three distinct entities that are God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), but there is only one God. No, not three distinct entities. Three distinct persons within a single entity.

But think about it hard for a minute. If there's a transcendent, all-powerful infinite God, why should one assume that his nature would be simple for corporeal, frail, mortal humans to understand?

[ChumpDumper]

But think about it hard for a minute. If there's a transcendent, all-powerful infinite God, why should one assume that his nature would be simple for corporeal, frail, mortal humans to understand?That's the great thing about faith, though -- you don't have to think at all. It's not a big deal; folks can believe whatever they want.

[Oh, Gee!!]

But think about it hard for a minute. If there's a transcendent, all-powerful infinite God, why should one assume that his nature would be simple for corporeal, frail, mortal humans to understand?

or define.

[Mr. Peabody]

No, not three distinct entities. Three distinct persons within a single entity.


Isn't a person an entity, insofar as it has its own independent existence?

That being the case, we have three persons, each with an indepedent existence, each of whom is God and yet, there is only one God.

[spursfaninla]

Interesting discussion, I thought the Bahai perspective was relevant to the discussion, I think it bridges some points of view shown here.

Bahai's believe Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam are all true, in that they teach an aspect of the truth. Each came for the people of that time and region, and are consistent in that they teach the one true God, prophethood and the Word of God, the afterlife and spirit, and most importantly encourage virtuous conduct.

The Trinity is a logically falacious attempt to reconcile bible passages that contradict each other. Bahai's don't deny the spiritual truth of the bible, but they interpret some things differently. For instance, they reconcile this problem of the nature of God and Jesus by saying that the prophet of God is his representative, and the words of the prophet are the words of God, so in that sense he is in a practical sense our only knowledge and experience of God. This is similar to "seeing" the sun, and mistaking the image we see for the sun itself. What we experience here on earth are the sun's rays, an image of the sun. The Prophets of God are rays of the Sun. God is an unknowable essence that we can relate to only through prophets. jesus was not his physical sun, he was his spiritual son, as are all the prophets.

Bahai's say Jesus as the Son is a title showing his closeness to God, and showing he revealed a greater revelation than the previous prophets, but not intended to put him above all prophets of the future. The passages about the servants and the Son in the new Testament are a way of understanding that Jesus brought a new Dispensation, allowing him to change the laws of God given during the Jewish dispensation.

Bahais say prophets reveal the truth to the extent humanity is ready to hear it, so each revelation reveals more, but this has nothing to do with their own greatness, which is equal. When Jesus said he was the Alpha and the Omega, he was saying all prophets are connected through the holy spirit, and are one. Muhammad said the same thing, as did the Bahai prophet Baha'u'llah (died 1892). Thus, only through the Son is true. Furthermore, during the dispensation of a prophet, his teachings ARE the best way to know God, because they apply to those times, and so that teaching makes sense even moreso.

The bible is very clear about what makes someone a false prophet, and I don't think it can be shown that Muhammad was one. For instance, his teaching have born fruit, in that many people are "good, virtuous" people because of his teachings. After his revelation, the middle east went through a cultural and scientific revolution while Europe was going through the dark ages, and there is evidence to suggest the rennesance was sparked through inspiration from cultural contact with the middle east.

Of course there are religious freaks and wackos in Islam, there are Christian whacko's too, (bahai's as well, I'm afraid), and they are not representative of the true teachings. For instance, Muhammad told his people to treat prisoners kindly, to not harm women and children, and to accept surrender. He said all of the other People of the Book (christians and Jews) should not be killed. This contradicts the interpretation of the Mad bombers who are killing innocents through a Jihad justification, obviously. Jihad was originally taking place in a time when Islam was surrounded by enemies, outnumbered and running for their lives. Muhammad was inspiring his people, teaching them to defend themselves and their faith.

[Nbadan]

I googled 'false prophets' and got back...

http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/images/dobson01.jpg

AND

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1965000/images/_1969542_hagee150.jpg

WOW! :wow

Google is good.

[Nbadan]

Perhaps, it's not only Islam which is being 'radicalized' by fundamentalist extremists. Consider the difference between what Billy Graham once praised, tolerance and peace, and what his son Franklin praises...

Franklin Graham Reaffirms Scorn for Islam
By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
Wed Mar 15, 6:17 PM ET


The Rev. Franklin Graham, who outraged Muslims in 2001 when he said that Islam "is a very evil and wicked religion," told an interviewer for Wednesday's edition of ABC News "Nightline" that he hasn't changed his mind about the faith.

Asked by ABC correspondent John Donvan whether Muslim groups had succeeded in altering his outlook about Islam, Graham said "No."

"Do they want to indoctrinate me? Yes. I know about Islam. I don't need an education from Islam," he said. "If people think Islam is such a wonderful religion, just go to Saudi Arabia and make it your home. Just live there. If you think Islam is such a wonderful religion, I mean, go and live under the Taliban somewhere. I mean, you're free to do that."

<snip>

The younger Graham angered Muslims following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks when he told NBC News: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_re_us/graham_islam)

[jochhejaam]

I googled 'false prophets' and got back...

http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/images/dobson01.jpg

AND

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1965000/images/_1969542_hagee150.jpg

WOW! :wow

Google is good.
Fortunately God won't be referencing Google on Judgement Day.

[Mr. Peabody]

Fortunately God won't be referencing Google on Judgement Day.

Right, because Hagee and Dobson will be among the first people saved. :rolleyes

[DarkReign]

Robertson is a total idiot.

But for once, he isnt that far off, IMO. Of course, Im not a very tolerant person when peeps continue to blow themselves up in crowded areas while citing passages from their chosen faith. Or when they actually have a Democratic election, the overwhelming majority elect a government with a slogan of "Rid the world of Israel".

Seems to me that this 'minority of violence' isnt really a minority. Convincing the world your a minority is one helluva trick.

[spursfaninla]

Even if the majority of the people of a certain faith are jerks, it doesn't mean anything about the writings of that faith. Those people can easily be interpreting them badly/for their own agendas.

I don't condone murder, so there is no justification for terrorism. On the other hand, we should recognize these people consider themselves to be in a guerilla war.

In the end, there is just NEVER a justification for blowing up innocent people and attacking non-violent civilians, IMO.

[gtownspur]

Even if the majority of the people of a certain faith are jerks, it doesn't mean anything about the writings of that faith. ( :lmao ) Those people can easily be interpreting them badly/for their own agendas.

I don't condone murder, so there is no justification for terrorism. On the other hand, we should recognize these people consider themselves to be in a guerilla war.

In the end, there is just NEVER a justification for blowing up innocent people and attacking non-violent civilians, IMO.


Seriously don't go there. THe writings do not help you're case. :lol

[Peter]

Hagee's got a good racket going on.

[jochhejaam]

Right, because Hagee and Dobson will be among the first people saved. :rolleyes
There are probably people that I wouldn't think would make it that will and vice-versa. It's better left up to someone to judge that sees deeper into a persons heart than we are able to.

I don't know anything about Hagee other than that his ministry is in Texas (?)

But Dobson? C'mon Peabody!

[Peter]

Hagee has a lot of things in Texas thanks to his "ministry"...

[Extra Stout]

Robertson is a total idiot.

But for once, he isnt that far off, IMO. Of course, Im not a very tolerant person when peeps continue to blow themselves up in crowded areas while citing passages from their chosen faith. Or when they actually have a Democratic election, the overwhelming majority elect a government with a slogan of "Rid the world of Israel".

Seems to me that this 'minority of violence' isnt really a minority. Convincing the world your a minority is one helluva trick.
Unfortunately, it may come to the West having to make a huge demonstration of ruthless force, instead of this half-ass nation-building and "oh Christians are just as bad" rationalization that the self-hating idiots make. I'm not going to tolerate those people making us live the way Israel has to live.

If the radicals want their war, well, maybe they'll get it.

[Sec24Row7]

Unfortunately, it may come to the West having to make a huge demonstration of ruthless force, instead of this half-ass nation-building and "oh Christians are just as bad" rationalization that the self-hating idiots make. I'm not going to tolerate those people making us live the way Israel has to live.

If the radicals want their war, well, maybe they'll get it.


We used huge restraint when we were attacked on 01. Eisenhower and Truman would have have made the region a glass factory.

[spursfaninla]

Go ahead and Laugh, funny boy. But try to actually bring it, instead of makng off-hand comments, because you are asking to get emberassed.

I've studied the Quran/Koran as well as the Bible for myself, not just read quotations from an intolerant Christian website, and I think you are full of it. Its teachings are very similar to Christianity and Judaism, a great majority of the principles are the same. Fear of God, importance of prayer, the reverence and high station of Christ, the importance of the written word of God, grace, heaven, the Oneness of God, practicing all manner of virtues such as humility, tolerance, chastity....I can go on and on.

Taking a quote out of context like "slay the infidels where ever you find them," is really academic dishonesty. Like I said, there was an extremely dangerous situation they were living in (like 10 to 1 armies chasing them through the desert), and it was a matter of defense. The other teachings on the subject put quotes such as these into perspective.

Lastly, statments such as "truman would have made the whole region glass" speaks to the difficulty of "wars" such as these. The terrorists were not (definitely) state-sponsored, so the government, much less joe arab is not responsible for them. Bombing the whole country is practically revenge murder of innocents.

True, much of the middle east wrongly blames the US for its woes, and maybe even hates us. But if you think going in and bombing half of the middle east is going to make the world safer for the U.S., I think you are tragically mistaken-we can't even afford the cost to take over and occupy Iran, much less the rest of them. And all the high-tech bombing and military occupation there sure hasn't endeared us to the locals, which means you get even more people resisting the govement. It is just no-win.

[DarkReign]

Lastly, statments such as "truman would have made the whole region glass" speaks to the difficulty of "wars" such as these. The terrorists were not (definitely) state-sponsored, so the government, much less joe arab is not responsible for them. Bombing the whole country is practically revenge murder of innocents.

ummm...so what happened on 9/11? 9 of the 11 hijackers were of Saudi dissent. I will not claim to know everything, but after the investigation, it was found that some of those individuals actually gained passports into other country's via using the Saudi Prince's clout. When we first invaded Afghanistan, the prisoners we took were basically laughing at the US's interrogation methods. Then, we brought in the Israeli specialists. Their demeanor changed drastically. Then, on a whim, it is said they had an arab man pose himself as a Saudi diplomat and the prisoner(s) broke into prayer thanking their God that it was a Saudi! They thought they were saved.


True, much of the middle east wrongly blames the US for its woes, and maybe even hates us. But if you think going in and bombing half of the middle east is going to make the world safer for the U.S., I think you are tragically mistaken-we can't even afford the cost to take over and occupy Iran, much less the rest of them. And all the high-tech bombing and military occupation there sure hasn't endeared us to the locals, which means you get even more people resisting the govement. It is just no-win.

Iraq is an occupation operation. He was referring to wiping the area of all living things with no more than 4 legs. The dollar amount of the nukes would pale in comparison to the occupation of Iraq.

[RandomGuy]

Robertson is a total idiot.

But for once, he isnt that far off, IMO. Of course, Im not a very tolerant person when peeps continue to blow themselves up in crowded areas while citing passages from their chosen faith. Or when they actually have a Democratic election, the overwhelming majority elect a government with a slogan of "Rid the world of Israel".

Seems to me that this 'minority of violence' isnt really a minority. Convincing the world your a minority is one helluva trick.

Palestinians hardly comprise anywhere even near a small minority of muslims. (shrugs)

Should we be surprised if a population of people who have been fighting another population for 50+ years *might* have a *slight* grudge?

I hardly think that is a condemnation of an entire faith.

[gtownspur]

Go ahead and Laugh, funny boy. But try to actually bring it, instead of makng off-hand comments, because you are asking to get emberassed.

I've studied the Quran/Koran as well as the Bible for myself, not just read quotations from an intolerant Christian website, and I think you are full of it. Its teachings are very similar to Christianity and Judaism, a great majority of the principles are the same. Fear of God, importance of prayer, the reverence and high station of Christ, the importance of the written word of God, grace, heaven, the Oneness of God, practicing all manner of virtues such as humility, tolerance, chastity....I can go on and on.

Taking a quote out of context like "slay the infidels where ever you find them," is really academic dishonesty. Like I said, there was an extremely dangerous situation they were living in (like 10 to 1 armies chasing them through the desert), and it was a matter of defense. The other teachings on the subject put quotes such as these into perspective.

Lastly, statments such as "truman would have made the whole region glass" speaks to the difficulty of "wars" such as these. The terrorists were not (definitely) state-sponsored, so the government, much less joe arab is not responsible for them. Bombing the whole country is practically revenge murder of innocents.

True, much of the middle east wrongly blames the US for its woes, and maybe even hates us. But if you think going in and bombing half of the middle east is going to make the world safer for the U.S., I think you are tragically mistaken-we can't even afford the cost to take over and occupy Iran, much less the rest of them. And all the high-tech bombing and military occupation there sure hasn't endeared us to the locals, which means you get even more people resisting the govement. It is just no-win.


Sorry fool, but there are more quotes that further damage the credibility of islam. Some passages which give an "ends justifies the means" in order to further islam. The history of Islamic orgins was not peaceful. Where you had the persecuted church and jesus christ is nowhere near Mohammed, being the pillager and raper of the land.

Get off your PC horse and pull the dick wool of your eyes.

[ChumpDumper]

So why are we expecting any Muslims to create a western-friendly democracy right now?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Sorry, but you're wrong. The bible clearly states that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the father except through him. God also said (in the ten commandments) that we should have no other Gods but him. That certainly rules out Buddhism and Hinduism. All other religions are corrupted versions of the true gospel of Christ and are the result of men thinking they know more than God.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif typical