So, which is it?

[Yonivore]

1) The Bush administration planted the documents or;

2) All of you who said there was no cooperation between al Qaeda and Iraq were wrong?

New Documents from Saddam Hussein's Archives Discuss Bin Laden, WMDs (http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490&page=1)


"Osama bin Laden and the Taliban"

Document dated Sept. 15, 2001

An Iraqi intelligence service document saying that their Afghani informant, who's only identified by a number, told them that the Afghani Consul Ahmed Dahastani claimed the following in front of him:

That OBL and the Taliban are in contact with Iraq and that a group of Taliban and bin Laden group members visited Iraq.

That the U.S. has proof the Iraqi government and "bin Laden's group" agreed to cooperate to attack targets inside America.

That in case the Taliban and bin Laden's group turn out to be involved in "these destructive operations," the U.S. may strike Iraq and Afghanistan.

That the Afghani consul heard about the issue of Iraq's relationship with "bin Laden's group" while he was in Iran.

At the end, the writer recommends informing "the committee of intentions" about the above-mentioned items. The signature on the document is unclear.

[Mr. Peabody]

1) The Bush administration planted the documents or;

2) All of you who said there was no cooperation between al Qaeda and Iraq were wrong?

New Documents from Saddam Hussein's Archives Discuss Bin Laden, WMDs (http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490&page=1)

Why didn't you print the editor's note immediately following section you posted?


(Editor's Note: The controversial claim that Osama bin Laden was cooperating with Saddam Hussein is an ongoing matter of intense debate. While the assertions contained in this document clearly support the claim, the sourcing is questionable — i.e. an unnamed Afghan "informant" reporting on a conversation with another Afghan "consul." The date of the document — four days after 9/11 — is worth noting but without further corroboration, this document is of limited evidentiary value.)

[FromWayDowntown]

Why didn't you print the editor's note immediately following section you posted?

Clearly, that note just articulates the hope of the main stream media.

:blah

[Yonivore]

Why didn't you print the editor's note immediately following section you posted?
Because it isn't relevant...and, it's a wrong characterization of the letter.

The letter is reporting back that the Afghanis have learned that Iraq is busted. Whether that's true or not doesn't change the fact that the author is reporting it back because it IS true.

The Iraqi author isn't questionable and, one more thing, I believe it will be corroborated.

[Yonivore]

bump this thread when that happens cowboy :tu
I will! In a brokeback second.

[ChumpDumper]

So he says the US already had proof.

Ok, where is it? Is it the same low level bullshit you've been trying to pass off for the last three years?

Where's his map to the WMDs while you're at it?

[Yonivore]

So he says the US already had proof.

Ok, where is it? Is it the same low level bullshit you've been trying to pass off for the last three years?

Where's his map to the WMDs while you're at it?
Obviously, you miss the point...again.

[ChumpDumper]

Attack with what?

All those stockpiles of WMDs we found in Iraq?

Seriously, after three years this is all you have?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Too many "buts" and "ifs" to be considered conclusive. Nice try, Yawnie. :sleep :sleep

[FromWayDowntown]

Obviously, you miss the point...again.

What is the point, then?

The article you posted says:


That the U.S. has proof the Iraqi government and "bin Laden's group" agreed to cooperate to attack targets inside America

What proof is that?

[Yonivore]

What is the point, then?

The article you posted says:



What proof is that?
The point is that Iraq's Afghani informant had information that the United States was on to them.

That's the point.

[ChumpDumper]

On to what?

If the US had proof that AQ and Iraq had an agreement to attack the US, wouldn't that have been released by now, since that was the main reason for going to Iraq -- no it was the WMDs -- no it was because Saddam killed some people when we liked him and gave him all kinds of aid.

You're telling me that the Afghans were in on it too now? Funny we haven't found anything there in the past three years either.

[Yonivore]

On to what?

If the US had proof that AQ and Iraq had an agreement to attack the US, wouldn't that have been released by now, since that was the main reason for going to Iraq -- no it was the WMDs -- no it was because Saddam killed some people when we liked him and gave him all kinds of aid.

You're telling me that the Afghans were in on it too now? Funny we haven't found anything there in the past three years either.
You're an idiot who can't read.

[gtownspur]

On to what?

If the US had proof that AQ and Iraq had an agreement to attack the US, wouldn't that have been released by now, since that was the main reason for going to Iraq -- no it was the WMDs -- no it was because Saddam killed some people when we liked him and gave him all kinds of aid.

You're telling me that the Afghans were in on it too now? Funny we haven't found anything there in the past three years either.

I'm now convinced you got your law degree from Pheonix Online. I've seen it all!

Your dumbass believes that once our troops got into iraq that there were gonna be big road side signs reading "WMD Exit 3 1/4 km", and maybe once they got to sadaams palace there was gonna be a big file cabinet with the hardcore evidence with another hey-look-at-how-big-of-fucktwad-i am- fucked up depiction of reality, label stamped reading "TOP SECRET 911 FILES".

Maybe the troops were also gonna find a big osama bin laden poster half naked on a beach with only a net and some mussels, on sadaams bedroom wall.

Geez, you're a big moron.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I believe Yonivore has been chumpdumped.

[SA210]

Maybe the troops were also gonna find a big osama bin laden poster half naked on a beach with only a net and some mussels, on sadaams bedroom wall.

Just keep it straight once and for all. Is it that difficult?

[Yonivore]

I believe Chumpy'll defend Saddam Hussein until he confesses.

[ChumpDumper]

Your dumbass believes that once our troops got into iraq that there were gonna be big road side signs reading "WMD Exit 3 1/4 km"I believe that when our Secretary of Defense says he knows exactly where they are, they should be there.
You're an idiot who can't read.I can read just fine. Your flight of fancy is just that. If the US had such proof four years ago, it would've come out by now.

[ChumpDumper]

I believe Chumpy'll defend Saddam Hussein until he confesses.I know you'll be an idiot forever.

This has nothing to do with whether Saddam is a bad man. Of course he is. So drop the straw man and show me the proof that the US had four years ago.

[Extra Stout]

OK, I'll try to explain what I think Yoni's point is, and make comments:

The Afghani consul to Iraq told an Afghani informant that the U.S. had obtained proof that bin Laden and the Iraqi government had agreed to collaborate on attacks against the U.S.

As in, such collaboration were a preacknowledged fact between the two parties, only now the United States knew about it. Whether the United States actually had proof would not be relevant, since this document itself would represent rather damning evidence if accurate.

However,

The document also says that if it turned out the Taliban and Iraq were responsible, then the U.S. would attack Afghanistan and Iraq. This document does not say that Iraq was involved in 9/11.

Nevertheless,

If Iraq indeed had agreed to collaborate with enemies of the United States to carry out attacks as this documented conversation assumes, even if 9/11 was not one of those on which they collaborated, that is justification for war. It's sort of like the Zimmerman memo.

But as ABC News noted, the sourcing is sketchy. Also, it's translated from Arabic, so we have no guarantee about things like indicative or subjunctive mood in these statements.

[nkdlunch]

don't hold your breath for that proof

[ChumpDumper]

The Afghani consul to Iraq told an Afghani informant that the U.S. had obtained proof that bin Laden and the Iraqi government had agreed to collaborate on attacks against the U.S.So you are taking fourth hand hearsay as gospel. OTOH it's probably better than the US intel about WMDs.
As in, such collaboration were a preacknowledged fact between the two parties, only now the United States knew about it. Whether the United States actually had proof would not be relevant, since this document itself would represent rather damning evidence if accurate.So this AQ/Iraq agreement to attack the US was known in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan AND the US, AND the US had proof, yet not a peep from anyone in four years.

Forgive my skepticism.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Soooo......we have an Iraqi document retelling what an Afghan spy claims he heard a third party say about what 4th and 5th parties were planning to do in the US?

I'm sold.

[Mr. Peabody]

Yoni, what ever happened with the Nightline special a few weeks back that was supposed to finally reveal that Saddam had WMDs?

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34879&highlight=nightline


Secret Saddam WMD Tapes Subject of ABC Nightline Special

I'll bet Syria is starting to sweat just a little.

What will all the Bush lied crowd do if there is irrefutable evidence that Saddam Hussein had WMD's, planned to use them, and then hid them in the days leading up to Operation Iraqi Freedom. I can't wait to hear the apologies...yeah...right.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Yoni, what ever happened with the Nightline special a few weeks back that was supposed to finally reveal that Saddam had WMDs?


It was dubbed in French and aired on Spanish-language news channel with English subtitles. Unfortunately, if you weren't in Germany, you had to buy it on PPV.

[DarkReign]

This thread got straight tore up...

[Oh, Gee!!]

This thread got straight tore up...

funny thing is that Yoni thought he had the smoking gun.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

:lmao omg i haven't seen yoni brutalized this bad since he was TRO

[Spam]

Is Dan Rather reporting again?

[Nbadan]

Look at the Fucken source ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490&page=1). I'm telling you, those fuckers have sold out.

(sorry about the language but ABC News fucken pisses me off!! the bias in their reporting has become much more obvious since Peter Jennings died. Where are the hard hitting exposes exposing government cronyism and corruption? Not on PrimeTime Live, shit, instead we have John Stousal, who has got to be blowing Karl Rove)

:pctoss

[gtownspur]

But as ABC News noted, the sourcing is sketchy. Also, it's translated from Arabic, so we have no guarantee about things like indicative or subjunctive mood in these statements.


Wow fuckbeads! Iraqis had written their documents in arabic. :lol , like that's totally a disqualifier since we know Portugese :lmao, is the native tongue of the Baath party.

It's not like the US govt cant find a fuckin translator who is knowledgeable. I mean even the not so secret FBI has arabic translators. Fuck, even Haliburton has translators, but that somehow means that because the documents were in a different language, that the evidence is shaky. Good Donkey fuck, why the hell do we have foreign intelligence agencies if the whole goddamned world doesn't write all their top secret shit in English, or advertise it on a Roadside Sign near baghdad for the Chump Dumpers of the world.

Here's what chump dumpers logic is akin too;

"If they haven't found jimmy hoffa's dead body yet, then that means the Son of a bitch never existed....because after all it's been decades and the FBI has never found him"

But back to the main point, who gives a fuck, nothing is gonna convince these morons since they wake up every morning feeling violated. Geez, who the hell clusterfucked your momies in here?

[gtownspur]

Look at the Fucken source ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490&page=1). I'm telling you, those fuckers have sold out.

(sorry about the language but ABC News fucken pisses me off!! the bias in their reporting has become much more obvious since Peter Jennings died. Where are the hard hitting exposes exposing government cronyism and corruption? Not on PrimeTime Live, shit, instead we have John Stousal, who has got to be blowing Karl Rove)

:pctoss


Abc news has sold out to a real bad corporation call Good reporting inc, i guess.

[ChumpDumper]

"If they haven't found jimmy hoffa's dead body yet, then that means the Son of a bitch never existed....because after all it's been decades and the FBI has never found him"Untrue, but I don't expect you to see the holes in this story. It's big person stuff.

[Nbadan]

Abc news has sold out to a real bad corporation call Good reporting inc, i guess.

You know the game, you play nice and we feed you stories to put out on the AP Wire. It's the FAUX News shell game all over again, except that this time it's ABC News laying out their credibility. Fuck them.

[T Park]

Your dumbass believes that once our troops got into iraq that there were gonna be big road side signs reading "WMD Exit 3 1/4 km",

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

(Editor's Note: The controversial claim that Osama bin Laden was cooperating with Saddam Hussein is an ongoing matter of intense debate. While the assertions contained in this document clearly support the claim, the sourcing is questionable — i.e. an unnamed Afghan "informant" reporting on a conversation with another Afghan "consul." The date of the document — four days after 9/11 — is worth noting but without further corroboration, this document is of limited evidentiary value.)

[RandomGuy]

I would note that two groups that dislike the US agreeing that we should be attacked is far from proof that they had actual plans or any cooperation other than agreeing to not like us.

BFD

[RandomGuy]

I guess conservatives need to clutch at some straws to build all the straw men they seem so fond of...

[ChumpDumper]

We know where [the WMDs] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.Rummy didn't need road signs 3 years ago to make his claims now, did he?

[Yonivore]

Rummy didn't need road signs 3 years ago to make his claims now, did he?
According to witnesses and documents, they were moved -- probably to Syria.

I know, you guys will have to have it explained to you by Saddam Hussein himself. That's fine.

What idiots you've become.

[ChumpDumper]

Come back with something the Bush administration actually believes next time.

[ChumpDumper]

And if they have moved, are we now safer from those WMDs?

I'll wait for you to try and tell me it wasn't about WMDs after all. That's the idiot you've become.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Invade Syria

[ChumpDumper]

Right! WTF are we waiting for? Some guy wrote a book about some guy seeing a plane! That's solid intel, isn't it?

[RandomGuy]

Right! WTF are we waiting for? Some guy wrote a book about some guy seeing a plane! That's solid intel, isn't it?

I heard it on fox news when some guy had read a statement about what he heard when these two other guys were talking at a urinal in pakistan in 1993 saying that clinton was helping the liberals steal babies for soup.

I mean how can you argue with that man?

All this from the same people who bought everything Chalabi said hook line and "we-don't-need-no-stinkin-corrobarating-evidence-hell-we-can't-even-spell-corrobarating-anyways" sinker.

Sorry Yoni, neo-con credibility isn't what it used to be...

[gtownspur]

^Geez, everyother news channel has credibility but fox.... You're such a lamebrain that you've seen to forgot the whole National Guard story, and bullshit Abc specials. Maybe you can bring in MSNBC, but that wont do diddly squat.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

I love seeing Yoniwhore make a complete ass of himself. :lol

TPark does it on a regular basis.

[DannyT]

Why didn't you print the editor's note immediately following section you posted?


he must work for CNN.....is that you Wolf?

[xrayzebra]

Look at the Fucken source ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490&page=1). I'm telling you, those fuckers have sold out.

(sorry about the language but ABC News fucken pisses me off!! the bias in their reporting has become much more obvious since Peter Jennings died. Where are the hard hitting exposes exposing government cronyism and corruption? Not on PrimeTime Live, shit, instead we have John Stousal, who has got to be blowing Karl Rove)

:pctoss

:lmao What a hoot. Poor old Dan, he lost one his propaganda buddies,
Peter Jennings, the Canadian. Next thing that will happen is his favorite
lady Babara Walters will not show up. Hell, Dan, all of us have our
cross to bear. You still got all your left wing blogs to cry with.

[gtownspur]

I love seeing Yoniwhore make a complete ass of himself. :lol

TPark does it on a regular basis.

what a fucking pathetic cheerleader to show up with no takes. :lol

[JoeChalupa]

what a fucking pathetic cheerleader to show up with no takes. :lol

And you acknowledge him. :lmao

[TDMVPDPOY]

either a conspiracy or bushs henchmen implanted the documents

[DarkReign]

Bush couldnt implant a flower into the ground without Cheney and Co. holding his hand.

Im sorry, I am so sick of the political rhetoric sometimes. But, you dont have to be a Dem or Rep to see Bush is a total puppet and an embarassment to any person associated with Yale.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I just wanted to say that. The man is an idiot. Seriously dumb. Im talking low IQ. Stereotypical hill-billy with a rifle and an attitude.

I could understand citizens voting for the people he surrounded himself with, because those folks seem to be deviously smart. But, to actually vote for Bush on the merit of being GWBush?!

That I cant understand. The man can barely read a teleprompter without stumbling over words with more than 3 syllables.

[xrayzebra]

^^Keep thinking he is dumb and he will keep cleaning your plough. The man
has shown he is a man. You couldn't even begin to handle what he has handled
in the past six years. He cant even take a leak without someone criticizing him.
President Bush has been upfront and truthful in all his dealings with the people
of the United States. He didn't promise anyone a rose garden. He told everyone
up front that it was going to a long haul and much of what is going on would not
be open for all to see.

[DarkReign]

^^Keep thinking he is dumb and he will keep cleaning your plough. The man
has shown he is a man. You couldn't even begin to handle what he has handled
in the past six years. He cant even take a leak without someone criticizing him.
President Bush has been upfront and truthful in all his dealings with the people
of the United States. He didn't promise anyone a rose garden. He told everyone
up front that it was going to a long haul and much of what is going on would not
be open for all to see.

I never attacked his personality. I attacked his intelligence. Forrest Gump was a wealthy, personable idiot too. Did he get elected President?

[Ocotillo]

Maybe he isn't so dumb afterall. It's just an act for the rubes on the right.

link (http://scott_shields.mydd.com/)

A few days back, I noted my pleasant surprise that the AP had finally decided to examine the Bush rhetorical tactic of making up straw-man arguments just to knock them down. While I didn't expect any readers of this blog to be shocked by their findings, I did expect that some would at least be shocked by the fact that a major media outlet was willing to pull back the curtain a bit on the way this administration works to shape the debate.

Tonight, there's another story floating around the wires that takes another unexpected swipe at the Bush mythology. Of all people, it's the AP's Nedra Pickler -- a writer so typically biased against Democrats that Atrios turned her name into a verb -- who's wielding the sword.


President Bush is known as a plainspoken man, a straight-talker. So how did a word like "kerfuffle" come out of his mouth?

It's not an everyday word; it means a commotion or fuss. Bush casually used it during a question-and-answer session after a speech at the City Club here. ...

An aide said he has heard Bush use the word privately before, but not in public.

:fro

[xrayzebra]

The dimm-o-craps wishes they had someone as "dumb" and "stupid" as Bush.
All they got are a bunch of idiots with no plans.

[DarkReign]

The dimm-o-craps wishes they had someone as "dumb" and "stupid" as Bush.
All they got are a bunch of idiots with no plans.

Also very true.

[gtownspur]

Maybe he isn't so dumb afterall. It's just an act for the rubes on the right.

link (http://scott_shields.mydd.com/)

A few days back, I noted my pleasant surprise that the AP had finally decided to examine the Bush rhetorical tactic of making up straw-man arguments just to knock them down. While I didn't expect any readers of this blog to be shocked by their findings, I did expect that some would at least be shocked by the fact that a major media outlet was willing to pull back the curtain a bit on the way this administration works to shape the debate.

Tonight, there's another story floating around the wires that takes another unexpected swipe at the Bush mythology. Of all people, it's the AP's Nedra Pickler -- a writer so typically biased against Democrats that Atrios turned her name into a verb -- who's wielding the sword.


President Bush is known as a plainspoken man, a straight-talker. So how did a word like "kerfuffle" come out of his mouth?

It's not an everyday word; it means a commotion or fuss. Bush casually used it during a question-and-answer session after a speech at the City Club here. ...

An aide said he has heard Bush use the word privately before, but not in public.

:fro

Even the old dude with a neck tie and collar at the protest rally said he's a republican, and he hates bush. omg!!! i'm gonna jizz in my liberal pants!!! :lol