A quick look at foul calls

[CubanMustGo]

Everyone complains that their team gets short shrift from the refs, so let's have a quick look at fouls and FT's for this year's serious contenders:



TEA TF OF +/- FT OFT +/-
DAL 1479 1586 -107 1855 1752 +103
DET 1210 1397 -187 1567 1320 +247
MIA 1496 1562 -66 1860 1774 +86
PHO 1332 1299 +33 1182 1519 -337
SAS 1383 1384 -1 1534 1529 +5TF = Team Fouls; OF = Opponent Fouls
FT = Free Throws By Team; OFT = Opponent Free Throws

Thoughts:
(1) Mark Cuban's whining has paid off ... :rolleyes
(2) Detroit's opponents being called for nearly 3 more fouls/game, Pistons shooting nearly 4 more FTs/game
(3) Miami seems pretty reasonable, surprisingly
(4) Huge FT disparity for Phoenix (with fouls being relatively even) shows impact of a team that shoots a lot of Js and is soft inside given injuries this season
(5) anyone saying SA gets a lot of calls needs to look at the stats

[T Park]

(2) Detroit's opponents being called for nearly 3 more fouls/game, Pistons shooting nearly 4 more FTs/game


Agressive take the ball to the hoop mentality.

No conspiracy there.

[NCaliSpurs]

It is shocking to me that Detroit gets so many fewer fouls called than their opponents.

They play hack-and-grab team defense. I know, I know. Detroit fans will hoot and scream, in a manner reminiscent of their ever-loveable Rasheed Wallace, that we have a certain player named Bruce Bowen.

The Pistons have an entire team of Bowen's then.

[NCaliSpurs]

Agressive take the ball to the hoop mentality.

No conspiracy there.


But that implies that their opponents are not aggressive either. I doubt that.

[JamStone]

Pistons get a great deal of calls go there way, especially in terms of not calling a lot of slaps or touch fouls. But, when they do get a bad whistle, the Pistons players hoot and hollar and make a big scene. You won't find too many Pistons fans who will claim otherwise. The Pistons get a favorable whistle a lot of times, EXCEPT when it's against other elite teams. Referees don't seem to mind not calling fouls on the Pistons when it's against a Joel Przybilla or Morris Peterson, but if it's Ray Allen or Kevin Garnett, the whistles get tighter on the Pistons. The hand checks get called more. The slaps will get whistled.

For the most part, the Pistons play very aggressively and don't get a lot of fouls called on them. They do get away with some clutching and grabbing and over-the-back fouls simply because they have a good reputation for defense and get the benefit of the calls. And, a lot of times, it's really good play anyway, clean blocks, clean steals, good post defense, and the like. But, there's no doubt that the Pistons often get the benefit of the whistle.

[NCaliSpurs]

BTW, my previous post wasn't meant to disrespect the Pistons in any way. They are clearly the class of the league this year, as well as Dallas and San Antonio.

It was just that my intuition that they do get away with a lot of clutching and grabbing, as you pointed out, and the stats seem to support this claim.

I won't hate the zebras any less in the finals this year. Hopefully, whoever wins or loses, the play is not determined by the reffing.

[Spurologist]

SAS 1383 1384 -1 1534 1529 +5

So much for the star treatment. Balance with team fouls and opponents fouls tells we aren't much more aggresive than the opposition or the spurs are getting fucked by some calls. I'll take the latter.

[Hook Dem]

It all washes. They still have to play the game.

[5ToolMan]

Detriot's 250+ advantage in FT differencial over the Spurs is somewhat confusing considering the style of play of each.

Both teams play agressive on the perimeter. However, with the possible exception of Bowen, the Pistons play more mano-mano and thus create more contact, while the Spurs shade their offensive man toward the Spurs interior strength. And on offense, the Pistons are much more of a jump shooting team. The Pistons have no one who can penetrate like Parker or Manu and no one who posts as much as Duncan.

The only thing that has hurt the Spurs FT difference has been injury to Duncan and Manu. Because of Tim's PF, he and other Spurs defenders are sometimes caught reaching trying to stop penetration. And it is clear with Tim's more limited mobility, and some may say less respect from the Zebras, he is getting less calls.

Still, given the entire context of how each team plays, the difference is very confusing. Perhaps it will balance out before and in the playoffs.

[picnroll]

What is amazing is that Detrot has this incredible differential and they still bitch and moan aftr every play that the refs robbed them. I guess they want a +10 FT advantage each game.

[cs100]

I've seen quite a few Piston games and they jump shoot more than the average team. This is evidenced by points in the paint for opponents. They only get aggressive if the game gets tight. Detroit does get the benefit of many NO calls moreso than most teams. Saying all that, I have to believe that with the playoffs being nationally televised, the whistles will blow appropriately.

[cs100]

CMG - where did you find these stats? I would like to see other teams and am not sure if you compiled them or found a site that already has them. Thanks.

[texbumTHElife]

What is amazing is that Detrot has this incredible differential and they still bitch and moan aftr every play that the refs robbed them. I guess they want a +10 FT advantage each game.


This is the first thing that came to mind for me as well.

[td4mvp21]

The team I see that gets favored the most is Dallas. It's kinda ironic that Cuban and Dirk complain so much. Pistons and Spurs are up there too though.

[CubanMustGo]

CMG - where did you find these stats? I would like to see other teams and am not sure if you compiled them or found a site that already has them. Thanks.

I pulled them off of NBA.com, just looked at the stats pages for each team. There's prolly an easier way.

[exstatic]

Amazing that SA is even in the hunt for best record...

[cs100]

I pulled them off of NBA.com, just looked at the stats pages for each team. There's prolly an easier way.


Thanks CMG. I noticed on that site that Detroit has the fewest calls against them of any other team in the NBA when they play at home. Their opponents average about 3 more fouls per game. SA is about even with their opponents.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable3.html?cnf=1&prd=1#top

[FreshPrince22]

Look at Ben Wallace and Tayshaun Prince's Fouls per game. Ben's is ridiculous for a center. No center in the league is even close considering the minutes he plays. Could it be his mobility/quickness advantage helps him avoid those fouls that big 7 footers are so prone to? Tayshaun commits the least fouls per 48 minutes of any player in the league because he uses length to bother jumpers rather than getting physical. That's some explanation for it. They do probably get away with more than most teams, but so do the Spurs. Bowen is the best player in the league at going as far as the refs will let him.

[ShoogarBear]

This is one of the things that has me most worried aobut the Spurs this year.

In previous years they could always count on a healthy FTA advantage (which helped to make up for their shitty FT%).

This year, because of Tim's and Manu's limitations, that's just not there. Tony, for all his points in the paint, still doesn't get a lot of whistle respect when he gets whacked about in there.

Unless we get some aggressiveness back on offense, this could come back to hurt us in the playoffs.

[FreshPrince22]

Also, notice that the teams that have the advantage are good teams. Some of this could be because these teams get into a situation a lot where they are intentionally fouled at the end of games. I know the Pistons have been in that situation a lot, but I can only think of a couple of games where the Pistons themselves had to foul at the end of games.

[td4mvp21]

Look at Ben Wallace and Tayshaun Prince's Fouls per game. Ben's is ridiculous for a center. No center in the league is even close considering the minutes he plays. Could it be his mobility/quickness advantage helps him avoid those fouls that big 7 footers are so prone to? Tayshaun commits the least fouls per 48 minutes of any player in the league because he uses length to bother jumpers rather than getting physical. That's some explanation for it. They do probably get away with more than most teams, but so do the Spurs. Bowen is the best player in the league at going as far as the refs will let him.

I agree with most of that. We play the same kind of defense as the Pistons, so it's not like its unfair to us. But the refs do get really ticky-tacky with Bowen a lot. Those little wimps whining all the time turn the refs against him.

[FreshPrince22]

I agree with most of that. We play the same kind of defense as the Pistons, so it's not like its unfair to us. But the refs do get really ticky-tacky with Bowen a lot. Those little wimps whining all the time turn the refs against him.

Yep, same thing happend when Scott Skiles whined about the Pistons getting calls and complaining to refs. The next 4-5 games the Pistons were getting cheapy fouls left and right and techs for next to nothing (laughing for one).

[ShoogarBear]

I disagree that Bruce gets ticky-tacked. He'll have an occasional game with foul trouble, but I don't remember the last time it cost him, say two games in a row, or three games out of four.

[conqueso]

Also, notice that the teams that have the advantage are good teams. Some of this could be because these teams get into a situation a lot where they are intentionally fouled at the end of games. I know the Pistons have been in that situation a lot, but I can only think of a couple of games where the Pistons themselves had to foul at the end of games.

I haven't watched enough Pistons game to know for sure, but I would think that a team that leads the league in margin of victory (+7.2 ppg) was less prone to being fouled at the end of games...in other words, there are fewer games close enough for that to be used as a strategy. Regardless, the Spurs have the same average margin of victory yet have far fewer opponent's fouls per game. Something else has to explain the discrepancy.

Maybe it's Ben's mobility or Tayshaun's length, but I think a lot of it comes from reputation. You have a multiple-DPOY on a team reputed for its tough defense...no matter how objective the refs try to be, on a subconscious level that reputation still seeps in and probably affects their judgment in recognizeable ways.

[FreshPrince22]

Another thing I just remembered is steals. Teams that have guards that like to hack away for steals on the perimeter are more likely to pick up a lot of fouls (and get into the penalty early). Look at the Pistons:

Billups: 0.82 steals per game
Hamilton: 0.66 steals per game
Prince: 0.69 steals per game

That is easily the lowest of any team's 1/2/3 players combined.

Again, I'm sure the Pistons get some beneficial treatment, but I don't think the dicrepancy is nearly as big as the numbers look. There are other reasons.

[samikeyp]

You won't find too many Pistons fans who will claim otherwise.


Remember in the finals games 1 and 2 when 2 Piston Starters and then their 6th man got 2-3 quick bs fouls in the first quarter? Nuff said

and the ones who do seem to post here! :lol (not all of course.)

[NCaliSpurs]

Another thing I just remembered is steals. Teams that have guards that like to hack away for steals on the perimeter are more likely to pick up a lot of fouls (and get into the penalty early). Look at the Pistons:

Billups: 0.82 steals per game
Hamilton: 0.66 steals per game
Prince: 0.69 steals per game

That is easily the lowest of any team's 1/2/3 players combined.

Again, I'm sure the Pistons get some beneficial treatment, but I don't think the dicrepancy is nearly as big as the numbers look. There are other reasons.


I know what you are going for here, but you are just wrong.

You are trying to say that since the guards steal less, then that means the Pistons actually don't hack and grab, and hence don't get called for fouls as often.

But looking at those 3 players alone isn't the whole picture. The team as whole steals the ball 6.7 times per game, compared to 6.42 in San Antonion. Using the same logic that you used, doesn't that mean the Spurs should be called for less fouls than the Pistons?

[cs100]

I remember Hubie Brown saying that players need to adjust to the way the game is called. It was called very tight and the Spurs adjusted quicker than the Pistons. Nuff said. :rolleyes