Immigration protests.

[Sec24Row7]

20,000 people march in LA.

Where the hell was the border patrol for that shit?

[boutons_]

you don't think the INS/police don't know where to find 10M illegals if they wanted to find them?

[NASCARdad]

That kind of stuff just pisses me off.

I don't get it? What's the point in having an immigration process, restrictions, offices, laws... and so on... if you're going to literally allow thousands of people to walk into your country everday, circumventing all this? It's a freakin' joke!

People want to cross the border illegally, set up residence in a country illegally, and then when the government tries to do something about it, they claim racism and that they have a right to be there. Bullshit! :cuss

Witj all of these thousands of uneducated, unskilled, poor people flooding our country every single day is not good.

There shouldn't even be a debate over this crap. You are in the country illegally, who ever gave you the right to be her? Since when is that a right? By that logic, do I have a right to live in any country in the world that I want, without having to go through the immigration process? That's not a right.

I sympathyze with the situation many of these people are in, but at some point, you kind of gotta say enough is enough. Am I right?

[billboardbill]

I agree with you totally. If you want to come into the country do it legally.............

[nkdlunch]

check again 500,000 ppl on the streets. we own the streets!

[mookie2001]

It's a freakin' joke!
it should be up to the head of the party that is rumored to have control of the three branches of government
or the liberal media...

[boutons_]

March 26, 2006


A G.O.P. Split on Immigration Vexes a Senator

By RACHEL L. SWARNS

HOUSTON — The telephone lines in the unassuming offices of Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, have been sizzling here in recent weeks as anxious Republican voters call to find out precisely where their tough-minded senator stands on illegal immigration.

Mr. Cornyn is a former state attorney general and a fiscal conservative, a Texan who wears cowboy boots with his pinstripes and prides himself on his 100 percent approval rating from the American Conservative Union.

But as the Senate prepares to wrestle the week of March 27 with the question of legalizing much of the illegal immigrant population, Mr. Cornyn, like many Republicans, finds himself squeezed by warring factions in his own party.

[President Bush kept up the pressure in his weekly radio speech on Saturday, a day after protests in three cities by immigrant rights advocates.]

Mr. Cornyn has been criticized on conservative talk radio and labeled a "sellout" on some Weblogs for promoting legislation that would allow millions of illegal immigrants to remain here for five more years. The proposal would also create a temporary worker program that would allow those immigrants and hundreds of thousands of foreigners abroad to work here legally for up to six years.

At the same time, business groups have been pressing him to go further by supporting legislation that would put their illegal workers on the road to citizenship.

[On Friday, supporters of immigrant rights took to the streets in Phoenix, Los Angeles and Atlanta to urge such action. At least 25,000 also rallied in Los Angeles on Saturday, The Associated Press reported.]

The legislative battle has pitted Republican against Republican, with conservatives deriding guest worker programs as an amnesty for lawbreakers and calling for a wall to be built along the border with Mexico, and with business leaders pushing for legalization of the illegal workforce and the admission of thousands of foreign workers.

With the Senate expected to start voting on legislation as early as March 28 and Congressional staffers negotiating furiously over the fine print, some lawmakers are struggling to find middle ground.

[In his radio talk, Mr. Bush acknowledged the difficulty that lawmakers faced. "This is an emotional debate," he said. "America does not have to choose between being a welcoming society and being a lawful society. We can be both at the same time."]

But finding that balance has been enormously difficult. When asked how he felt on a recent day when he had shuttled from a telephone interview on Fox News Radio to a luncheon with business executives, Mr. Cornyn said, "In between."

"I have people come to see me who say, 'The wall is the answer,' " Mr. Cornyn said as he settled into a leather couch in his office here. "I hear others say we ought to be sympathetic, we ought to just let them stay and call them legal and declare an amnesty. And I don't think either of those alternatives are possible or viable.

"Sometimes they end up yelling at me," he said of his conservative constituents. "But my job, and our job in Congress, is to see the whole picture and to come up with a realistic consensus."

Mr. Cornyn acknowledged, however, that it would be difficult to reach given the deep divide within his party. "It's the hardest thing," he said. "I honestly don't think we'll know the outcome until we get there."

The rift emerged in 2004 when Mr. Bush first urged Congress to create a program that would legalize illegal workers and allow for foreign workers to come here in the future. Both groups would be required to return home after a period of time.

The proposal was hailed by the United States Chamber of Commerce, typically a staunch Republican ally and a formidable political force. But it fueled a revolt among some conservatives in the party who demanded tighter border controls to stop the waves of illegal immigration that they view as a threat to American culture, jobs and security.

In December, the Republican-controlled House defied Mr. Bush's call for a temporary worker program. Instead, the House passed a tough border security bill that would, among other things, make it a federal crime to live in this country illegally, turning the millions of illegal immigrants here into felons, ineligible to win any legal status. (Currently, living in this country without authorization is a violation of civil immigration law, not criminal law.)

Meanwhile, many business leaders have thrown their weight behind legislation sponsored by Senators John McCain, Republican of Arizona, and Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, that would grant permanent residency — and ultimately citizenship — to the 11 million illegal immigrants believed to be living in the United States. To qualify, immigrants would have to pay a fine and back taxes, learn English and work here for six more years.

Mr. Cornyn has tried to build a middle path: sponsoring legislation that would deal with illegal immigrants and the needs of businesses for foreign workers while trying to avoid being tarred with the amnesty label by requiring both groups to return home after a certain time. Under his plan, people could only apply for permanent residency from their home countries.

The Senate Judiciary Committee, of which Mr. Cornyn is a member, is trying to cobble together elements of both pieces of legislation to produce a bill for the vote. Any legislation that passes the Senate will have to be reconciled with the House bill.

"Amnesty is off the table," Mr. Cornyn has said repeatedly.

But Republican hard-liners here and on the Judiciary Committee scoff at efforts to distinguish temporary worker plans from Mr. McCain's more liberal proposal. Many fear participants in such a program will simply vanish when it is time for them to go home.

"You say it's not amnesty, but it is," Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa said of temporary worker proposals. "If it looks, acts and smells like amnesty, then in my eyes, it is amnesty."

The issue is so politically explosive, particularly with Congressional elections looming, that some Republicans on the Judiciary Committee avoid discussing it. Senators Mike DeWine of Ohio and Orrin G. Hatch of Utah, who have favored immigrant rights in the past, both declined interviews to discuss their positions publicly. Both are up for re-election this year.

And Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who supports legalizing illegal immigrants, warned fellow Republicans that they could expect little more than criticism for their labors.

"A lot of people, particularly on our side, don't want to have a debate about this," Mr. Graham said. "Even if you debate it, you're wrong. Even if you're open-minded about compromise, you're wrong."

Mr. Cornyn, however, has thrown himself into the fray with enthusiasm.

He recently entered into negotiations with Mr. Kennedy in an effort to build some consensus on a temporary worker program. He appears regularly on conservative talk radio and meets with a host of competing constituencies like conservative leaders, business executives and Hispanic lawyers. Members of his staff have also been in regular contact with the White House.

"Coming from a red state, one that has a large Hispanic population and one that's a border state, makes it easier to bridge those divisions among Republicans and find common ground with some Democrats," said Mr. Cornyn, who has close ties to Karl Rove, Mr. Bush's senior adviser.

His efforts were welcomed at a luncheon at the InterContinental Hotel here, where business leaders gave him a standing ovation. But even some of those executives said they were optimistic that his position might shift a bit.

That was not the view of a group of about 25 conservative voters protesting recently outside of Mr. Cornyn's office.

Leslie Wetzel, who organized the protest, dismissed Mr. Cornyn's balancing act as more "mixed messages." "He professes to be a conservative, but like so many other Republicans he's not a true conservative," Mrs. Wetzel said. "They say, 'Oh, it's not amnesty; it's guest worker.' Well, I don't care what kind of spin you put on it. It's rewarding people for breaking the law."

With conservatives turning up the heat, Mr. Cornyn issued a flurry of press releases, emphasizing again that he opposed amnesty. Some Congressional staffers in Washington said they feared he was backing away from a compromise with Mr. Kennedy.

But business leaders said they were still hopeful. "There's a lot of pressure on him," said Laura Reiff, a co-chairwoman of the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition, which represents hotels, restaurants, construction companies and other service industries. "He's put in a position now of really having to soul search and figure out where he's going to be."

* Copyright 2006The New York Times Company

[Vashner]

I think Dubya needs to explain guest worker better.

Call it GREEN CARD. Easier for everyone to understand. Just take the Alien Worker off.

It's really not the Mexican's it's the Central and South.. gang and drug lords. Because Mexico has ZERO souther border. I.E. you can from Guatamala or uh.. Saudi Arabia right up the tailpipe with no one looking.

A wall won't fix it but it can't hurt. Hire Mexican contractors to build it.. then they won't protest.. (cold cash talks). Then some heat seeking guns haha JK. (the guns would be with proper warning of course).

[MannyIsGod]

You know why it is called racism/classism? Because the truth is that the United States needs these people for economic survival but it chooses to use them as political pawns whenever it can.

I agree, I do not want people coming into this country illegaly because it represents a large security issue, but the fact is that those people are a very intergrated and important part of our economy and you cannot remove them. There is a reason that the laws are ignored.

[scott]

But they are stealing the jobs we don't want anyway!

[Extra Stout]

That kind of stuff just pisses me off.

I don't get it? What's the point in having an immigration process, restrictions, offices, laws... and so on... if you're going to literally allow thousands of people to walk into your country everday, circumventing all this? It's a freakin' joke!
The point is to placate enough people into thinking that they actually care about border security, so that nobody notices that they're in the pocket of big business. Big business isn't about to give up its low-cost, easy-to-exploit labor supply.

People are noticing now. They just still haven't figured out the right play. We'll get back to that.


Witj all of these thousands of uneducated, unskilled, poor people flooding our country every single day is not good.
Well, apparently they're here to work. It seems that the ones here to collect welfare are clustered close to the border.


There shouldn't even be a debate over this crap. You are in the country illegally, who ever gave you the right to be her? Since when is that a right? By that logic, do I have a right to live in any country in the world that I want, without having to go through the immigration process? That's not a right.

I sympathyze with the situation many of these people are in, but at some point, you kind of gotta say enough is enough. Am I right?
There's a debate because there are 11 million undocumented aliens working in the United States, and there is no feasible logistical way to deport them. Also, they are entrenched in their niche in the economy, and extracting them would be painful.

The hypocrisy of our immigration policy is that we go years and years with just a token effort to impede illegal immigration, *wink wink nudge nudge,* so that these folks end up being here for years working, but then when an election year comes up and somebody wants a wedge issue, woo hoo here comes a new tough immigration law! They aren't taking the issue seriously at all.

Clearly if we have millions and millions of people working here for years outside of our immigration system, the system is broken. We aren't allowing enough people to come here legally to meet the demand for labor. But that's not going to be fixed anytime soon because nobody has the political will to do it, except seemingly the President, and all his political capital is gone.

[Sec24Row7]

It's illegal for "big bussiness" to employ them, and easy for them to get caught.

I would venture to say that very few "big bussinesses" have undocumented workers working for them.

They are mostly employed by small bussinesses, individuals and in agriculture where the risk/reward for the employer is a little closer to even or weighed on the side of employment.

[ChumpDumper]

Since when is agriculture not big business?

[Sec24Row7]

For sure there are large agricultural corperations, however it is a hell of a lot harder for one of those companies to have an illegal on their payroll than it is for a small bussiness.

Big bussinesses also have a hell of a lot more to lose if they employ illegals.

After all... it is ILLEGAL to employ them and results in HUGE fines if you get caught.

[ChumpDumper]

How huge?

And do you really think migrant workers are hired dierectly by big ag companies to pick crops?

[Sec24Row7]

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the illegal alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

[Ocotillo]

Wal-Mart was recently fined for hiring illegals for their cleaning crews. That's about as big buisness as you get these days.

[Sec24Row7]

I'm not saying that some don't get hired. I never did.

I'm saying the majority are not employed by big bussiness.

[ChumpDumper]

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the illegal alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.This is the new law, right?

[boutons_]

Sounds like the old law. The new law also criminalizes/fines for providing medical/hospital care, which is, you know, oh so Repug/Samaritan/Bible-based humanity.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, with such large fines, you'd think no one would ever have hired an illegal - especially small businesses. It would be nice to know some data on the enforcement of the current law, if that is it.

[Sec24Row7]

Oh yeah... base law on christian beliefs but don't allow religion to be in public school.

You are such an idiot.

[Sec24Row7]

The problem with the current law is that it basically gives employers carte blanch to hire anyone so long as they get a Social Security #.

They arent required to check up on it or anything.

If they do get caught with an illegal on the payroll, they just say, here we have the information that he gave me... etc.. I did my best to determine that he was legit.

Of course...

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In addition to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.


This is a link to the US code hosted by a MN website...

http://www.mnforsustain.org/immigration_hiring_law_excerpts_from_us_code.htm

[Oh, Gee!!]

Oh yeah... base law on christian beliefs but don't allow religion to be in public school.

You are such an idiot.


umm, I think he was being facetious

[boutons_]

"base law on christian beliefs but don't allow religion to be in public school."

you are fuckin stupid.

Christians, and religionists, don't have a monopoly on virtue or heaven or humanitarian principles. Laws can be humanitarian and compassionate without having the slightest whiff or taint of Christianity.

The Bible-toting, Bible-spouting, evangelicial-pandering Repug whores in Congress throw their bogus "Christianity" out the window whenever the corps/lobbyists pay them to, and/or when their seats are at risk.

"religion in schools" is nothing but a wedge for Christian/Bible indoctrination in schools, like intelligent design (another word for creationish) is nothing but a wedge for creationism.

[Sec24Row7]

Rofl...

How did the guy that talks to himself on the bus get internet access?

This guy is hilarious.

[ChumpDumper]

The problem with the current law is that it basically gives employers carte blanch to hire anyone so long as they get a Social Security #.

They arent required to check up on it or anything.So will they be with the new law?

How much will that cost businesses?

[ChumpDumper]

Anyway I think the current $10k fine is only for conspiracy, not simple employment.

Here's an interesting tidbit:
One bill, sponsored by U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick, a Charlotte Republican, calls for $10,000 in fines against employers who knowingly hire illegal workers. Today the maximum fine is $250 per worker.

"Our immigration system is broken," Myrick said. "We need to know who's inside our country. Our main concern here is terrorism; there are a lot of people who don't like us and want to hurt us."

Today, potential terrorists can assume a Hispanic name and slip with ease across the country's southern border, she said.

But even if the federal government decides to crack down, it would need to find the resources to stop the flow.

In North Carolina, not a single business has been fined for hiring illegal immigrants since 1999. That's in spite of Section 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act, the federal law that prohibits employers from knowingly hiring illegal immigrants.

Tom O'Connell, who runs the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement center in Cary, said enforcement of the law is difficult, given his limited staffing. It's more important, he said, to concentrate on finding and deporting immigrant felons and workers in sensitive workplaces such as nuclear plants or defense facilities.

"I can't arrest every truck full of painters going to some job in Apex," he said. "We don't have the resources."

So they keep coming -- some on tourist visas that expire, others by car or by foot across the country's southern border. Some are professionals, but the vast majority are people who come to the United States hoping to escape poverty and to build a better life. http://www.newsobserver.com/1155/story/411982.html

[Oh, Gee!!]

Today, potential terrorists can assume a Hispanic name and slip with ease across the country's southern border, she said.


I guess we aren't worried about white-skinned foreigners, just the darkies from the South.

[valluco]

I guess we aren't worried about white-skinned foreigners, just the darkies from the South.
Yep. Since the 9/11 hijackers came for Mexico and not Canada. :rolleyes

[Sec24Row7]

It actually is getting worse...

I have a friend with a rather large ranch near Kingsville and in the last 4 years they have found 5, 13, 15 and 25 dead walkers on their place.

You can account for the increase this last year because of the dry conditions...

But that is just madness...

Their place isn't THAT big...

How many people are dying out there?

[valluco]

It actually is getting worse...

I have a friend with a rather large ranch near Kingsville and in the last 4 years they have found 5, 13, 15 and 25 dead walkers on their place.

You can account for the increase this last year because of the dry conditions...

But that is just madness...

Their place isn't THAT big...

How many people are dying out there?
Thousands. We ran into one mojado at our deer lease in Northern Starr County that was in pretty bad shape a couple of years ago. His skin was all blistered and fucked up from the elements and the unforgiving thorny brush of South Texas. The guy could barely speak so we gave him a one of our jugs of water and he went on his way. He told us about how he got seperated from his group after their coyote dumped them in the middle of nowhere late at night w/ no directions or map or anything and then later when his group encountered la migra everyone ran in different directions and he got lost. He had been walking (probalbly in circles) in the brush for 2 days until he ran into us. He had to drink water from muddy ponds and share water with cattle from their drinking holes :vomit. I doubt that guy ever made it. Shit, I got to see 6 mojados run across my grandma's house in Rio Grande City durring spring Break two weeks ago. I was in her front yard watering her plants when 2 of them ran right in front of me and then 4 more ran right by. 5 males and 1 female and they were young, maybe 17-24.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Did you spray them with the hose?

[ChumpDumper]

They could've been terrorists!

Valluco is a felon!

[Sec24Row7]

Thousands. We ran into one mojado at our deer lease in Northern Starr County that was in pretty bad shape a couple of years ago. His skin was all blistered and fucked up from the elements and the unforgiving thorny brush of South Texas. The guy could barely speak so we gave him a one of our jugs of water and he went on his way. He told us about how he got seperated from his group after their coyote dumped them in the middle of nowhere late at night w/ no directions or map or anything and then later when his group encountered la migra everyone ran in different directions and he got lost. He had been walking (probalbly in circles) in the brush for 2 days until he ran into us. He had to drink water from muddy ponds and share water with cattle from their drinking holes :vomit. I doubt that guy ever made it. Shit, I got to see 6 mojados run across my grandma's house in Rio Grande City durring spring Break two weeks ago. I was in her front yard watering her plants when 2 of them ran right in front of me and then 4 more ran right by. 5 males and 1 female and they were young, maybe 17-24.

Rofl... sorry that just made me laugh. Males and Femals... Mexicanus Illegalus.

So Taxonomic.

We used to have a problem with getting 40 at a time walk across our place, but then they had a huge bust and got most of the coyotes and we didn't see many for a few years... just occasionally the few loners wearing nice boots and a backpack (don't fuck with these).

[valluco]

Did you spray them with the hose?
:lol I thought of that afterwards. It just happened too fucking fast, man. And then after I express concern to my grandmother for her safety, she's like, "Don't worry mijo they pass through here all of the time and they are in too much of a hurry to get as far from the river as possible."

[smeagol]

"base law on christian beliefs but don't allow religion to be in public school."

you are fuckin stupid.

Christians, and religionists, don't have a monopoly on virtue or heaven or humanitarian principles. Laws can be humanitarian and compassionate without having the slightest whiff or taint of Christianity.

The Bible-toting, Bible-spouting, evangelicial-pandering Repug whores in Congress throw their bogus "Christianity" out the window whenever the corps/lobbyists pay them to, and/or when their seats are at risk.

"religion in schools" is nothing but a wedge for Christian/Bible indoctrination in schools, like intelligent design (another word for creationish) is nothing but a wedge for creationism.
You are so full of hate. It's revolting.

[xrayzebra]

You know why it is called racism/classism? Because the truth is that the United States needs these people for economic survival but it chooses to use them as political pawns whenever it can.

I agree, I do not want people coming into this country illegaly because it represents a large security issue, but the fact is that those people are a very intergrated and important part of our economy and you cannot remove them. There is a reason that the laws are ignored.

You are full of it. We don't need them. Mexico needs us. That is a fact.
Get your head out of where the sun doesn't shine. You gotta have have
some kinda warped outlook on life.

[Sec24Row7]

No... I'm pretty sure they do domestic jobs that "citizens" feel too entitled to do.

I know I certainly need the ones that work for me (they have green cards).

One of them is the Hardest working SOB I have ever met or ever will meet.

[smeagol]

My two nanies are from Ecuador. They are both ilegal (one of them recently married a US Citizen so she won't be ilegal for much longer). They both left kids back in Ecuador, kids they maintain through remitances. They are some of the nicest ladies I have ever met. I trust them my three kids on a daily basis.

[ChumpDumper]

Felon!

[cheguevara]

You are full of it. We don't need them. Mexico needs us. That is a fact.


you don't need 5% of US workforce? u're not too much of a businessman are you?

[xrayzebra]

No but they damn sure aren't the backbone of the workforce that some would
want you to believe. And I don't believe they are five percent of the workforce
either, that is except in the southwest part of the US. They have violated our
laws and should be treated as such.

[nkdlunch]

that's right now you've gonne and united all immigrant supporters!!


CNN.COM
Immigration Protests Continue all over the Nation

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Tens of thousands of students walked out of school in California and other states Monday, waving flags and chanting slogans in a second week of protests against legislation to crack down on illegal immigrants.

In Washington, 100 demonstrators wore handcuffs at the Capitol to protest a bill that would make it a felony to be in this country illegally and would make it crime to dispense aid to the nation's 11 million illegal immigrants.

Immigrant supporters also object to legislation that would also impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and would build fences along part of the U.S.-Mexican border. (Full story)

More than 500,000 people gathered in downtown Los Angeles on Saturday, and tens of thousands rallied in Phoenix and Milwaukee last week.

On Monday, California's Cesar Chavez Day, at least 8,500 students marched out of eight Los Angeles-area schools, including the San Fernando Valley and the wealthy coastal enclave of Pacific Palisades, said Monica Carazo, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles school district.

By midmorning, the protests had spread to downtown, where hundreds of students walked the streets and chanted. The boycott had the tacit approval of school officials in some of the heavily Hispanic downtown schools, where word was passed through hall posters and public address systems.

In some areas, teachers and administrators walked with students "as a safety measure," Carazo said.

A few schools chose to bar their doors to prevent walkouts. Officials at Huntington Park High School locked the gates after classes started, but the students climbed over a chain-link fence and joined marchers in their heavily immigrant community.

Police went on a citywide alert, but no major confrontations reported.

Hundreds of teenagers also walked out of several high schools in Dallas and headed for a rally at a park, some carrying Mexican flags and others posters calling for Congress to recognize immigrant rights.

In Detroit, protesters waving Mexican flags marched from the southwest side of the city where many Hispanics live toward a federal building downtown.

"We are illegal immigrants if you trace our heritage all the way back, but we are here and we are working and we are living the American dream," said Janet Padron, a 22-year-old Allen Park resident.

"Do you see the community?" Padron asked, pointing to the thousands of people around her. "Do you see how many people didn't go to work today?"

[Clandestino]

You know why it is called racism/classism? Because the truth is that the United States needs these people for economic survival but it chooses to use them as political pawns whenever it can.

I agree, I do not want people coming into this country illegaly because it represents a large security issue, but the fact is that those people are a very intergrated and important part of our economy and you cannot remove them. There is a reason that the laws are ignored.

SON OF A FUCKING BITCH... I have been gone way too long... I agree with something Manny said!

[nkdlunch]

A few schools chose to bar their doors to prevent walkouts. Officials at Huntington Park High School locked the gates after classes started, but the students climbed over a chain-link fence and joined marchers in their heavily immigrant community.



WTF???

[DarkReign]

Hahahaaa...

Riiiiiiiight. I live in fucking Michigan (which is a faaaaar cry from any border with Mexico) and I can tell you with certainty that every landscaping business in the area is 70% Latino.

And those mofos WORK like friggin ANIMALS for $8 an hour. I worked for a now HUGE landscaping company when I was 17. Doing back-breaking work of all sorts, mostly hauling and such. Let me put it this way, if I even tried to keep pace with this 50-ish year old cat named (of course) Miguel, I couldnt.

When I am being paid, I work for my money. I really, really do(i know, i know, big accomplishment). But not like this guy. The foremen could say "Miguel, run thru that brickwall there until you knock it down" and homeboy would have done it...until the wall was rubble....in under an hour. Just cost the company $16 (with insurance costs) to tear down a wall.

Another story (again, I live in Michigan). I lived in some apartments that were just above ghetto level. Lived there 1 year (man, it was really fun) knowing I had to get out or I would get to used to the lifestyle. Anyway...

The apartment across the hall was vacant for a long time. Finally someone moved in (door was open). 5 Mexican dudes just moved in that lived in Texas but were here in Michigan for the season (construction season, summer). Honestly, my prejudice preceded me. I was nervous. I am a skinny dude. I live with my girlfriend, who is hot. These cats were....raw to say the least. One of them named Eddie was obviously the alpha. Loud, drunk, always talking in Spanish. Obvously, I avoided them like the plague.

But thats where I was stupid. Very stupid. I judged them only on appearance and observing their actions.

One day, one of the guys that spoke English better than the rest (Nick, which he pronounced like 'Neeck') approached me. He was really cool. He introduced me to the other guys. Real nice guys. I was in my "party-at-all-costs" mode of life and these guys partied really hard. Naturally, we hit it off.

Wow...was I wrong. They all had families, wives, kids, etc in Mexico and Texas. They drank like alcohol disappeared in 24 hours if it wasnt finished in time. But you better damn well believe, Monday thru Saturday, staying up drinking and partying until 2-3am everyday, they were at work, on time, at 6am the next. Work 14 hours, come home to a shitty 2 bedroom apartment with 5 peeps living there, fished catfish out of the streams around town for food (yuck), and did the partying thing all over again.

Moral...

At first, they were a threat. 5 guys, all under 30, 3 of them being HUGE. Then, they turned into security. I could leave my girlfriend home alone and know that if anything happened, she could knock on a door less than 5 feet from ours for instant protection.

Trust me, we never had problems. Those guys scared police away, nonetheless some whacko roaming the area.

I dont know if this means anything, I just thought it was relevant.

[Sec24Row7]

WTF???


You're suprised?

They are good at getting over shit like fences...

That's why this border fence thing is a bad idea.

[nkdlunch]

You're suprised?

They are good at getting over shit like fences...

That's why this border fence thing is a bad idea.


I'm surprised they locked the kids like animals. What about fire hazzards and shit. MOtherfuckers

[Sec24Row7]

They lock school doors all the time now, not just for protests.

Don't get me started on the liberties that school administrators take with kids and their rights...

[Clandestino]

Hahahaaa...

Riiiiiiiight. I live in fucking Michigan (which is a faaaaar cry from any border with Mexico) and I can tell you with certainty that every landscaping business in the area is 70% Latino.

And those mofos WORK like friggin ANIMALS for $8 an hour. I worked for a now HUGE landscaping company when I was 17. Doing back-breaking work of all sorts, mostly hauling and such. Let me put it this way, if I even tried to keep pace with this 50-ish year old cat named (of course) Miguel, I couldnt.

When I am being paid, I work for my money. I really, really do(i know, i know, big accomplishment). But not like this guy. The foremen could say "Miguel, run thru that brickwall there until you knock it down" and homeboy would have done it...until the wall was rubble....in under an hour. Just cost the company $16 (with insurance costs) to tear down a wall.

Another story (again, I live in Michigan). I lived in some apartments that were just above ghetto level. Lived there 1 year (man, it was really fun) knowing I had to get out or I would get to used to the lifestyle. Anyway...

The apartment across the hall was vacant for a long time. Finally someone moved in (door was open). 5 Mexican dudes just moved in that lived in Texas but were here in Michigan for the season (construction season, summer). Honestly, my prejudice preceded me. I was nervous. I am a skinny dude. I live with my girlfriend, who is hot. These cats were....raw to say the least. One of them named Eddie was obviously the alpha. Loud, drunk, always talking in Spanish. Obvously, I avoided them like the plague.

But thats where I was stupid. Very stupid. I judged them only on appearance and observing their actions.

One day, one of the guys that spoke English better than the rest (Nick, which he pronounced like 'Neeck') approached me. He was really cool. He introduced me to the other guys. Real nice guys. I was in my "party-at-all-costs" mode of life and these guys partied really hard. Naturally, we hit it off.

Wow...was I wrong. They all had families, wives, kids, etc in Mexico and Texas. They drank like alcohol disappeared in 24 hours if it wasnt finished in time. But you better damn well believe, Monday thru Saturday, staying up drinking and partying until 2-3am everyday, they were at work, on time, at 6am the next. Work 14 hours, come home to a shitty 2 bedroom apartment with 5 peeps living there, fished catfish out of the streams around town for food (yuck), and did the partying thing all over again.

Moral...

At first, they were a threat. 5 guys, all under 30, 3 of them being HUGE. Then, they turned into security. I could leave my girlfriend home alone and know that if anything happened, she could knock on a door less than 5 feet from ours for instant protection.

Trust me, we never had problems. Those guys scared police away, nonetheless some whacko roaming the area.

I dont know if this means anything, I just thought it was relevant.

mexicans are pretty slick.... they were probably banging your old lady and you just didn't know about it! haha.

[JoeChalupa]

I grew up in Defiance, Ohio and many of my friends worked for a landscaping business and they weren't even illegal. 95% of the crew was hispanic and I knew all of them.

Protest under the American flag is my take.

[xrayzebra]

Here is a little article that I lifted this AM. I have to agree with it.



When illegal is right, what is wrong?
By Kathleen Parker

Mar 29, 2006


There's nothing like the sight of 500,000 protesters on U.S. turf, demanding rights in Spanish while waving Mexican flags, to stir Americans from their siestas.

In Los Angeles, the iconic phrase may be "Si se puede," but in Muncie, it's "What the ... ?"

Suddenly, in the flash of a newscast, polite political debate about guest worker programs visually morphed into what seemed like a full-blown invasion.

Demonstrations have the desired effect of focusing attention on an idea - and television cameras can tighten that focus so that a slow drip looks like a tsunami. But the same imagery can backfire. I suspect that the sight of so many people demanding rights to which they have no legal claim will not help the cause of illegals in this country, even if it motivates politicians to act, well, politically.

Let's just say that convincing others of one's desire to become an American citizen would be more effective if one were to do so in English - while waving an American flag. Just imagine how welcome 500,000 bubbas waving American flags and chanting, "Hell no, we won't go," would be in Mexico City.

Now before I'm accused of being biased against Latinos, let me be clear. Yo quiero a los Latinos. I could go on in Espanol, but when in America, I always say, do as the Americans do. Speak English. Otherwise, I'm over-the-top pro-Latino and pro-immigrant.

I grew up in Florida with Cubans as my closest friends, and my stepfather is Mexican - a legal immigrant who came to this country at age 16 to attend medical school.

I am, in other words, an unapologetic Hispanophile.

But, like a majority of Americans who think Congress should secure our borders, I'm a fan of laws and of those who respect them - even though I occasionally turn right on red when the sign says not to.

The question of what to do with some 11 million to 20 million illegal immigrants already living and working in this country may be too problematic for mere politicians. The issue is exacerbated by our refusal to speak plain, non-PC English about what's what. Illegal immigrants are not "undocumented workers." They're illegal. And, if we're to use the legal language accurately, they're "aliens."

Then again, when we talk about illegal aliens, it is useful to remind ourselves that we're also talking about human beings. To see television images of shadows crossing the desert into the U.S. is to see criminals intent on misdeeds rather than poor people, hundreds of whom die each year in the process, trying to find jobs and plenty to eat.

As we've been told hundreds of times, these people do the work Americans won't do, which is both true and not true. It is true that Americans don't want to work for the low wages that illegal workers gratefully earn, but not necessarily true that no American would do those jobs under any circumstances.

Steven Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies (cis.org), says that unemployment figures tell the truer story of how native workers are being crowded out of the market by cheap labor: 11 percent of American construction workers are unemployed, as are 9 percent of workers in food processing and 11 percent in cleaning and maintenance.

"The least educated Americans are getting hurt," he says.

Standing around a Washington, D.C., Metro station the other day, I watched a Latino sweeping the tiled floor. He was one of those people you barely notice - an invisible soul, dignified, unobtrusive - but plainly attentive to his job. I don't know if he's here legally, but I do know the floor was spotless. I tried to imagine any other American doing the same job. A college student? Another minority? Is there really an involuntarily unemployed American citizen keeping warm on a street grate because this small brown man is sweeping the floor of an underground tunnel?

Before I bleed to death or start writing poetry, let me balance this romantic view of the illegal immigrant with another nugget: About 27 percent of all inmates in the federal prison system are criminal aliens, according to government figures. Then again, millions of illegals who are otherwise law-abiding people have lived here for 10-20 years, buying houses, attending parent-teacher meetings and giving birth to native-born Americans.

Although there seems no simple solution to such a complex issue, two nagging thoughts persist: (1) The right to protest was a gift from America's Founding Fathers to the nation's citizens, ergo, non-citizens should protest in their own countries; and (2) the purpose of the legislative branch of government is to pass laws that serve the best interests of the nation's citizens.

Which may mean, No se puede.


Kathleen Parker is a popular syndicated columnist and director of the School of Written Expression at the Buckley School of Public Speaking and Persuasion in Camden, South Carolina.

Copyright © 2006 Tribune Media Services


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Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/kathleenparker/2006/03/29/191703.h

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It would be nice if some in our Congress would just realize a lot of their BS is
causing more problems than solving problems. Liberals are gonna be Liberals no
matter what it cost their own country and citizens.

Another article I lifted follows. Read at your own risk. It wont make some on this
board very happy.



Racism gets a whitewash
By Michelle Malkin

Mar 29, 2006


Few things make liberals more uncomfortable than being confronted with the racism of politically correct minorities.

Two weeks ago, I wrote about Autum Ashante, the precocious 7-year-old black nationalist poet, who said white people are "devils and they should be gone." If this daughter of a Nation of Islam activist father had instead been an Aryan supremacist child of a Klan activist, she'd still be all over the network news and pages of pop culture magazines (as a pair of white nationalist teen pop singers, Lamb and Lynx Gaede, have been since last fall). But with rare exceptions, nobody wanted to touch Autum's spoon-fed hatred with a 10-foot-pole. That would be, you know, "intolerant." We have to "respect diversity."

Well, this weekend, militant racism from another protected minority group was on full display. But you wouldn't know it from press accounts that whitewashed or buried the protesters' virulent anti-American hatred.

An estimated 500,000 to 2 million people, untold numbers of them here illegally, took to the streets of Los Angeles to protest strict immigration enforcement and demand blanket amnesty for border violators, visa overstayers, deportation fugitives, immigration document fraud artists and other lawbreakers. Mexican flags and signs advocating ethnic separatism and supremacy filled the landscape. Demonstrators gleefully defaced posters of President Bush and urged supporters to "Stop the Nazis!" Los Angeles talk show host Tammy Bruce reported that protesters burned American flags and waved placards of the North American continent with America crossed out.

Bet you didn't see that on television.

One of the largest, boldest banners visible from aerial shots of the rally read: "THIS IS STOLEN LAND." Others blared: "CHICANO POWER" and "BROWN IS BEAUTIFUL." (Can you imagine the uproar if someone had come to the rally holding up a sign reading "WHITE IS BEAUTIFUL"?) Thugs with masked faces flashed gang signs on the steps of L.A.'s City Hall. Students walked out of classrooms all across Southern California chanting, "Latinos, stand up!" Young people raised their fists in defiance, clothed in T-shirts bearing radical leftist guerrilla Che Guevara's face and Aztlan emblems.

Aztlan is a long-held notion among Mexico's intellectual elite and political class, which asserts that the American Southwest rightly belongs to Mexico. Advocates believe the reclamation (or reconquista) of Aztlan will occur through sheer demographic force. If the rallies across the country are any indication, reconquista is already complete.

Lest you think these ideas are moldy-oldy 1960s leftovers that no one subscribes to today, listen to Sandra Molina, 16, a junior from L.A.'s Downtown Magnet High School, who complained to the supportive Los Angeles Times: "This is unjust. This land used to belong to us and now they're trying to kick us out."

Nor are these sovereignty-obliterating grievances confined to the wacky West Coast. In Milwaukee, Wis., marchers carried signs that read: "If you think I'm 'illegal' because I'm a Mexican[,] learn the true history because I'm in my HOMELAND."

Open-borders sympathizers in the press strained to look the other way. As Slate writer Mickey Kaus, who attended the L.A. demonstration, noted, the Los Angeles Times buried any mention of the presence of Mexican flags in its initial "propagandistic" report -- and then eliminated any reference to them at all. Cracks Kaus: "I used to write this sort of press-releasey 'news' account when my college paper assigned me to 'cover' anti-war demonstrations that I'd helped organize! . . . The Times' effort is filled with representative quotes from participants, without a note of dissent."

Apologists are quick to argue that Latino supremacists are just a small fringe faction of the pro-illegal immigration movement (never mind that their ranks include former and current Hispanic politicians from L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa to former California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Cruz Bustamante).

But you'll never hear or read such forgiving caveats in the mainstream press's hostile coverage of the pro-immigration enforcement members of the Minutemen Project -- who are universally smeared as racists. For what? For peacefully demanding that our government enforce its laws and secure its borders.

Yes, borders. Last time I checked a map of North America, they still do exist.

Unless we give in and let the bullies and their appeasers whitewash those out of existence, too.



Michelle Malkin is a syndicated columnist and maintains her weblog at michellemalkin.com. She has also authored books such as Unhinged and In Defense of Internment.




Copyright © 2006 Townhall.com


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Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/michellemalkin/2006/03/29/191685.html

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I loved the picture in this morning E-N where the Dallas school buses were
taking the students back to classes after demonstrating for the Illegals. Flying
the Mexican flag no less out the school bus window. What a screwed up
country that we have created.

[DarkReign]

mexicans are pretty slick.... they were probably banging your old lady and you just didn't know about it! haha.

:lol :lol :lol

[xrayzebra]

...why does no one want to comment on the Mexicans showing
their colors and burning ours. Come on Libs, show your true colors
the U.S. is always wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, if we were serious about rounding these guys up and deporting them, we missed a golden opportunity to get most of them at once.

[xrayzebra]

I thought of that, just build a fence in downtown LA and sort them
out. But, no one has the guts to do that. You know, like, enforce
the law on "Illegal Aliens". Now you can go into a bar and arrest
drunks. TABC says that's okay, but don't dare enforce the immigration
laws.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I thought of that, just build a fence in downtown LA and sort them
out. But, no one has the guts to do that. You know, like, enforce
the law on "Illegal Aliens". Now you can go into a bar and arrest
drunks. TABC says that's okay, but don't dare enforce the immigration
laws.


you propose arresting everyone and releasing them if they aren't illegal aliens? Then we can bust down every door, search every house for illegal stuff, and arrest evreyone doing anything bad. Sounds like you would enjoy living in Cuba. Good luck with that.

[Sec24Row7]

Cuba... Miami... wtf is the difference?

[ChumpDumper]

Now you can go into a bar and arrest
drunks. TABC says that's okay"How I spent last weekend" by xray.

[xrayzebra]

you propose arresting everyone and releasing them if they aren't illegal aliens? Then we can bust down every door, search every house for illegal stuff, and arrest evreyone doing anything bad. Sounds like you would enjoy living in Cuba. Good luck with that.

You seriously think something like that hasn't happened in
the U.S. But no, I don't propose that happening. But it would
be nice if you read the article's I posted and see how many
criminal elements have come into the country with illegal
aliens. And I don't like the flag and my country put down,
they want to be here but not a part of what they want. Now
you reconcile that for me.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You seriously think something like that hasn't happened in
the U.S. But no, I don't propose that happening. But it would
be nice if you read the article's I posted and see how many
criminal elements have come into the country with illegal
aliens. And I don't like the flag and my country put down,
they want to be here but not a part of what they want. Now
you reconcile that for me.

MYOB. That's the solution.

[xrayzebra]

I don't speak acronyms! Are you trying say bring you own bottle.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I don't speak acronyms! Are you trying say bring you own bottle.


MYOB=Mind Your Own Business

[Nbadan]

Immigration policy protestors needed to keep their eyes on the ball...


http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/upsidedown.jpg

The right-wing latched on to these photos and is now using them as if they represent the entire movement. Wing-nuts are pushing to email these photos to every national news outlet, & Michelle Malkin is giving them prominent place in order to inflame anti-immigrant sentiment. They know the power of imagery - I've seen people talk about "raising the Mexican flag over the US flag" in reference to protests in PHOENIX. It's not about facts, it's about imagery. Why didn't the OP include where he found those pictures, or that the protest in fact was by a small group of high-school US citizens? Because that dilutes the imagery & that dilutes the anger.

[SA210]

Chicanos :tu

[ElBorracho]

Simon vato!

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, fuck it. I don't even care anymore. There are enough idiots like Xray who have zero fucking clue yet get a vote in our society that I've pretty much come to the conclusion it all doesn't matter.

Viva Los Estupidos!

[Phenomanul]

You are full of it. We don't need them. Mexico needs us. That is a fact.
Get your head out of where the sun doesn't shine. You gotta have have
some kinda warped outlook on life.

Where is your compassion for others? "Love your neighbor as thyself"....

'Warped outlook' is the fact that the world needs borders to economically alienate one group from others... and that everyone has embraced that concept as normality. That is why a system of free-enterprise socialism (as paradoxical as that may sound) can never exist, because borders always will.

Now don't get me wrong, the status quo is what it is... but how sad is it, that for years we labored to tear down the wall that separated East and West Germany only for many in this country to desire one in their own back yard.

The problem is too complicated to solve... but don't fool yourself, racism is still a major influence in shaping peoples' immigration views.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

As long as there is economic parity between the us and mexico, nothing will keep the immigrants out. Not felonies, not physical barriers, and not ignorant wannabe rich people.

[smeagol]

Cuba... Miami... wtf is the difference?
Yep, no difference there. Both are full of Cubans, right? :rolleyes

[Sec24Row7]

You take my offensive offhand remarks way too seriously.

[smeagol]

You take my offensive offhand remarks way too seriously.
I guess I do.

Question to other posters: Am I the only one who, when reading quickly Sec24Row7, reads instead "scarecrow"?

[DarkReign]

oddly enough, I do as well.

never bothered to mention it though.

[RandomGuy]

Immigration policy protestors needed to keep their eyes on the ball...


http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/upsidedown.jpg

The right-wing latched on to these photos and is now using them as if they represent the entire movement. Wing-nuts are pushing to email these photos to every national news outlet, & Michelle Malkin is giving them prominent place in order to inflame anti-immigrant sentiment. They know the power of imagery - I've seen people talk about "raising the Mexican flag over the US flag" in reference to protests in PHOENIX. It's not about facts, it's about imagery. Why didn't the OP include where he found those pictures, or that the protest in fact was by a small group of high-school US citizens? Because that dilutes the imagery & that dilutes the anger.

Har, conservatives take something out of context and get "outraged" by something?

Never happen.

[Sense]

That kind of stuff just pisses me off.

I don't get it? What's the point in having an immigration process, restrictions, offices, laws... and so on... if you're going to literally allow thousands of people to walk into your country everday, circumventing all this? It's a freakin' joke!

People want to cross the border illegally, set up residence in a country illegally, and then when the government tries to do something about it, they claim racism and that they have a right to be there. Bullshit! :cuss

Witj all of these thousands of uneducated, unskilled, poor people flooding our country every single day is not good.

There shouldn't even be a debate over this crap. You are in the country illegally, who ever gave you the right to be her? Since when is that a right? By that logic, do I have a right to live in any country in the world that I want, without having to go through the immigration process? That's not a right.

I sympathyze with the situation many of these people are in, but at some point, you kind of gotta say enough is enough. Am I right?



You don't know SHIT of what these people go through so they can risk their fucking lives to get here....


so stfu.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What do you expect from someone named Nascardad?

He's looking at the issue from a totally wrong angle anyways.

[scott]

This country was founded by Americans dammit!

[Guru of Nothing]

Sincerely, I don't even read these threads, so pardon me if someone already beat me to the punch.

If you REALLY want to control the border, demand MANDATORY, lengthy, prison sentences for the people who consistently, or knowingly, employ illegal immigrants.

Fuck all of y'all emotional bitches that eschew simplicity.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Guru, There are shitloads of over-the-top things like that you can think of to eliminate the problem, but enforcing them would be almost impossible.

Seriously, the yankee government bigwigs have no true grasp on this situation unless they have lived here for years and years. They are stirring up a problem that will bite them in the ass from multiple directions.

[Guru of Nothing]

Guru, There are shitloads of over-the-top things like that you can think of to eliminate the problem, but enforcing them would be almost impossible.

Seriously, the yankee government bigwigs have no true grasp on this situation unless they have lived here for years and years. They are stirring up a problem that will bite them in the ass from multiple directions.

Well, you kind of got me there, insofar as illegal immigration is a "necessary evil" for which no politician wants to address head-on.