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Nbadan
10-01-2004, 01:14 PM
Let's cut through some of the delusion that has helped Bushiveks cope with W's poor preformance in yesterday's debate...


CORAL GABLES, Florida (CNN) -- If there's one thing President Bush should know to avoid in debates, it's the audible sigh. And the eye-rolling. Yet there he was last night, doing his best Al Gore, as most TV networks ran those forbidden cutaway shots that hurt him as much as John Kerry did.
It was a good, meaty debate. Some heat, lots of illumination. Both candidates performed well, overall. Kerry (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/candidates/kerry.new.html) won. (Special report: The 2004 debates (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/))

If you don't believe us, or the CNN/USA Today/Gallup post-debate poll (more on that below), just ask the New York Post. (Complete coverage: Debating the debate (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/01/debate.main/index.html))

Under the headline, "Bad Night for W," the country's most rabidly pro-Bush paper forgave Kerry for his New York subway faux pas to report that the president was "unusually off his game" last night in the University of Miami's basketball arena.

Even that paper's most rabidly pro-Bush reporter, Deborah Orin, said Kerry "seemed far better prepared than Bush (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/candidates/bush.new.html)," who "often repeated himself and at times seemed at a loss for words or defensive. ... By the time the debate was over, it seemed clear that Kerry had given himself a new lease on life and guaranteed that the campaign has a long way to run."

The New York Times called him "petulant." The Washington Post's Tom Shales said Bush appeared at times "anxious," "ill at ease" and "stammering." The Los Angeles Times editorial, under the headline "Kerry Won," said Bush "seemed tired." Just about everyone called him "defensive" and "apparently annoyed" at Kerry's gall, to dare to think he could be commander-in-chief.

Bush confidante Karen Hughes explained the president's petulance this way, while acknowledging the presence of such petulance, "On his face, you could see his irritation at the senator's misrepresentations," Hughes told the Washington Post. "He was answering the senator with his face."

Clinching Kerry's win was this exchange, mid-way through the 90-minute face-off, which drove home his claim that Bush is "distracted" by Iraq and Saddam Hussein when the real target in the war on terrorism should be Osama and al Qaeda. Kerry seized on Bush's claim that "the enemy attacked us," saying, "Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al Qaeda attacked us."

Inexplicably, Bush shot back, "First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that." (We breathed our own audible sigh here, visibly relieved that Bush is on top of that one. Phew!)

Another sign of Kerry's win -- while his camp was able to tout positive reviews from normally pro-Bush pundits like Kate O'Beirne, Jonah Goldberg and Joe Scarborough, Bush-Cheney was forced to peddle perfunctory praise from Sen. John McCain, conservative commentator Fred Barnes and a "Democratic strategist who spoke on the condition of anonymity" ... to the Washington Times.

But back to our survey. The CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll voters conducted post-debate also offered some encouragement to Camp Kerry. The poll of 615 registered voters showed that 53 percent of watchers thought Kerry did a better job, while just 37 percent thought Bush performed better. Forty-six percent of respondents said they viewed Kerry more favorably after the debate, 13 percent viewed him less favorably. The same poll showed that 21 percent viewed Bush more favorably, while 17 percent viewed him less favorably.

The numbers showed little change on Iraq. Asked who would handle Iraq better, 43 percent after the debate said Kerry, 54 percent said Bush. The President's number was unchanged from a poll conducted before the debate, Kerry was up 3 percent from that poll. On who you trust to handle the responsibilities of commander in chief, 44 percent said Kerry after the debate while 54 percent said the president. That was a slight improvement for Kerry, who trailed 55 to 42 percent before the debate.

Sixty percent said Kerry expressed himself more clearly; 32 percent said Bush did. The two were even at 41 percent on who had a better command of the issues. Forty-nine percent said Bush agreed with them more on the issues they cared about, compared with 46 percent for Kerry. 48 percent found Bush more likable, 41 percent said Kerry. Half of the poll's respondents found the president more believable, 45 percent said Kerry was. 54 percent said Bush demonstrated he was tough enough for the job, 37 percent said Kerry did.

A few caveats: This poll does not, and cannot, reflect the views of all Americans. It only represents the views of those who watched the debate, which tends to be a more partisan crowd and thus more favorable to one candidate or another than the general public. Those interviewed after the debate were 36 percent Republican, 32 percent independent and 32 percent Democratic. Fifty-two percent of those interviewed said before that they planned to vote for Bush in November, 44 percent for Kerry and 2 percent for Nader.

Also worth noting -- people's views often change considerably during the two or three days following a debate, so this poll's findings could have a particularly short shelf-life. (One note on the instant poll: Four years ago, 49 percent first said Al Gore won the opening debate, compared to 41 for Bush.)

While they staked out starkly different positions on Iraq, North Korea and whether to put leashes on daughters, the candidates read from the same page (almost exactly) at their post-debate rallies around Miami. Bush opened his rally asking, "Anything worthwhile on TV tonight?" Kerry, at a rally across town, began with, "So, did you all watch something on TV? Was it good?"

Bush is joined by Sen. John McCain today in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Later the two attend a rally in Manchester, New Hampshire. Kerry sticks around Florida, holding a rallies in Tampa and Kissimmee. Tomorrow, Kerry heads to Orlando in the morning and attends a DC money chase in the evening.

The first post-debate TV ad airs today, featuring a pro-Kerry group of women whose loved ones are currently deployed or were killed in Iraq. The group, the "Band of Sisters," watched the debate. The spot, which features their reactions, will start running today in DC and it will air beginning early next week in key markets in Wisconsin, Iowa and New Mexico.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/thenation/faceofdefeat_web.jpg

LandShark
10-01-2004, 01:22 PM
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/spam2.gif

Nbadan
10-01-2004, 01:23 PM
Oct 1, 2004

DNC Releases New 'Faces of Frustration' Post Debate Video
Video Highlights Bush's Debate Frustration, Anger, Annoyance

WASHINGTON, DC – The Democratic National Committee released a new "Faces of Frustration" post-debate video today featuring a compilation of George W. Bush's angry, frustrated, annoyed, and peeved reactions to John Kerry's strong debate performance.

"Last night at the debate in Miami, John Kerry looked and acted Presidential, while George Bush just seemed petulant," said DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "George Bush had a record of failure to defend, and he failed to defend it. He refused to take responsibility for his go it alone rush to war, and tt times, he was defensive, annoyed, arrogant, even angry, and showed it."

To view Faces of Frustration, click below.

Windows Media - Broadband http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/wmv/democratic1.download.a...
Windows Media - Dial-up http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/wmv/democratic1.download.a...

Real Player - Broadband http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/rm/democratic1.download.ak...
Real Player - Dial-up http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/rm/democratic1.download.ak...

Democrats! (http://www.democrats.org/news/200410010006.html)

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 01:23 PM
Is it grape Kool-Aid today?

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 01:27 PM
Boy, the Bush-loving spin meisters are sure out in full force today! why can't ya'll admit your boy got his ass handed to him by kerry??

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 01:29 PM
Get a clue.

LandShark
10-01-2004, 01:30 PM
why can't ya'll admit your boy got his ass handed to him by kerry??
Because that's not what happened.

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 01:31 PM
i have tons of clues pointing to the fact kerry won the debate hands down...the only people who differ are partisans, and even some of thm had to admit kerry dominated

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 01:33 PM
Kerry "dominated" how, exactly? On what basis? I'd really like to see your explanation of how Kerry bested Bush in this debate.

We've established you can make the claim. Now back it up or remain the clueless ignorant partisan you are.

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 01:36 PM
the plain fact you cant even acknowledge kerry won the debate, like every national poll demonstrates, like anyone with half a brain can figure out from listening and reading things today, and most of all from plain watching the debate, shows how clueless and ignorant YOU are...i know you are sad Bush looked like an idiot, just take your lumps like a man and quit whining about it, sissy

Nbadan
10-01-2004, 01:38 PM
The post-debate numbers say so


Uncommitted voters who watched Thursday night’s presidential debate said John Kerry won the debate against President Bush, and most of those voters improved their opinion about the Democratic candidate because of the debate, according to a CBS News poll.

Forty-three percent of the uncommitted debate-watchers picked Kerry as the winner, while 28 percent chose Mr. Bush. Another 29 percent said it was a tie.

Kerry also made significant inroads on ratings for his potential to handle Iraq and on likeability, two areas where he had been trailing Mr. Bush.

<snip>

More than half of the uncommitted voters said that their image of Kerry had changed for the better as a result. Just 14 percent said their opinion of Kerry had gotten worse, and one-third did not change their opinion.

CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/01/opinion/polls/main646712.shtml)

LandShark
10-01-2004, 01:39 PM
CBS News? :lmao

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 01:41 PM
Just as I suspected. You have no response.

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 01:43 PM
just as i suspected...you're still clueless and ignorant

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 01:44 PM
Still waiting.

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 01:46 PM
not surprising

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 01:58 PM
Yes, it is not surprising that you have nothing to offer except that Kerry "won" because he 'spoke well.'

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 02:01 PM
its a debate. speaking is what you do. how do you expect to win a debate if you dont speak well? make faces like Bush? kerry hammered his ass on the issues and made him look like a fool

Nbadan
10-01-2004, 02:02 PM
The News continues to be good for Kerry...


WASHINGTON, Sept. 30 (UPI) -- Judges on a seven-person panel arranged by United Press International declared Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., the winner of Thursday night's presidential debate at the University of Miami.

"In this debate, (President) Bush barely avoids mistakes, because Kerry avoids successes. Bush doesn't win because Kerry doesn't (lose)," said James J. Unger, director of the National Forensics Institute at American University. Unger prepared the evaluation form, which was distributed to all of the debate judges.

Each judge was asked to rank the candidates based on their ability to focus on the issues, present valid facts, refute their opponent's inaccuracies, respond effectively to questions and present a clear message, all on a scale of 1 to 5.

Unger gave Kerry a score of 18 and Bush 16. He said that Kerry accomplished his goal, which was to get the public to view him as a commander in chief.

"Kerry was consistently in command of a presidential message," said Unger
Interest alert (http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/09300000aaa0449b.upi&Sys=siteia&Fid=POLITICS&Type=News&Filter=Politics)

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 02:05 PM
stop it dan, you're gonna make their neocon heads explode with so many facts about kerrys ass-whoppin on bush :lol

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 02:07 PM
Yes, it is not surprising that none of you can explain why Kerry "won" other than he 'spoke well.'

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 02:11 PM
its not surprising you think people werent paying attention to what kerry said, but rather how he said it only....thats why you are out of touch here

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 02:23 PM
Keep trying kiddo.

Bandit2981
10-01-2004, 02:25 PM
LOL you are the one, the extreme minority i might add, that thinks Bush won this debate...but, whatever little things keep you going throughout the day i guess :lol

Marcus Bryant
10-01-2004, 02:28 PM
Sure, it's an "extreme" opinion for you.

Perhaps one day when you can actually understand the issues instead of relying on others to tell you how to think might you amount to something.

Hook Dem
10-01-2004, 02:29 PM
LOL you are the one, the extreme minority i might add, that thinks Bush won this debate...but, whatever little things keep you going throughout the day i guess :lol
Depends on what you call winning the debate. You obviously were charmed by Kerry's style with empty substance. If you saw it that way, then so be it. You won the debate! However, Bush will win the election. I suppose the debate can be a consolation prize for you since you have little else. :sleep

Opinionater
10-01-2004, 04:43 PM
IMHO, both candidates did well but Kerry gets the edge simply because he had to deliver and he did.
Bush simply had to make it through and he did.

Kerry - A+
Bush - B

SpursWoman
10-02-2004, 12:52 AM
From One of your Favorite Sites, Dan (http://www.electoral-vote.com)


Sept 30th - Kerry 254 Bush 280
Today - Kerry 221 Bush 276

Between yesterday and today:


Kerry dropped from *weak Kerry* in MI to dead tie
*barely Kerry* in OH to dead tie



I'm not seeing where Bush dropped 4...I'm sleepy. :sleep

Nbadan
10-02-2004, 01:10 AM
Believe it or not, Al Gore actually fell further behind W. in the polls after he won the first Bush-Gore debate in 2000. I don't expect to much movement in the polls yet, but if Kerry can impress in debate number 2 the way he did in debate number 1, IMO you'll begin seeing some swing voters go with Kerry.