Bush was deadset on Iraq in 03--NYT

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060327/pl_afp/usbritainbushiraqdiplomacy_060327064943;_ylt=Aie33 MV8FA8nb10QuucclRxqP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlY wMlJVRPUCUl)

NEW YORK (AFP) - US
President George W. Bush made clear to British Prime Minister
Tony Blair in January 2003 that he was determined to invade
Iraq without a UN resolution and even if UN arms inspectors failed to find weapons of mass destruction in the country, The New York Times reported.

Citing a confidential British memorandum, the newspaper said the president was certain that war was inevitable and made his view known during a private two-hour meeting with Blair in the Oval Office on January 31, 2003.

Information about the meeting was contained in the memo written by Blair's top foreign policy adviser and reviewed by The Times.

"Our diplomatic strategy had to be arranged around the military planning," the paper quotes David Manning, Blair's chief foreign policy adviser at the time, as noting in the memo.

" 'The start date for the military campaign was now penciled in for 10 March,' Mr. Manning wrote, paraphrasing the president. 'This was when the bombing would begin'," the paper continued.

The timetable came at an important diplomatic moment, the paper said.

Five days after the Bush-Blair meeting, then US secretary of state
Colin Powell was scheduled to appear before the
United Nations to present evidence that Iraq posed a threat to world security by hiding unconventional weapons.

Stamped "extremely sensitive," the five-page memorandum had not been made public, according to the report. Several highlights were first published in January in the book "Lawless World," which was written by British lawyer and international law professor Philippe Sands.

In early February, Channel 4 in London first broadcast excerpts from the memo.

But since then, The New York Times has been able to review the five-page memo in its entirety.

The document indicates the two leaders envisioned a quick victory and a transition to a new Iraqi government that would be complicated, but manageable, the paper said.

Bush predicted that it was "unlikely there would be internecine warfare between the different religious and ethnic groups." Blair agreed with that assessment.

The memo also shows that the president and the prime minister acknowledged that no unconventional weapons had been found inside Iraq, The Times noted.

Faced with the possibility of not finding any before the planned invasion, Bush talked about several ways to provoke a confrontation, including a proposal to paint a US surveillance plane in the colors of the United Nations in hopes of drawing fire, or assassinating Iraqi president
Saddam Hussein.

[TheThinkingMan]

This has really got me thinking about President Bush.

[JoeChalupa]

No surprise at all.

[xrayzebra]

Clinton also had a plan to invade Iraq. So what does NYT article prove? And
besides it is the NYT, who can believe them.

[nkdlunch]

Clinton also had a plan to invade Iraq. So what does NYT article prove? And
besides it is the NYT, who can believe them.

Who actually went ahead and invaded?

[xrayzebra]

^^Someone with guts and integrity. President Bush.

[SA210]

^^^
Bush = Integrity and guts?



:lmao

[boutons_]

Invading Iraq was a Repug priority before the 2000 election.

The Repugs exploited 9/11 to build a bullshit case for the Repug Iraq war, and then dickhead lied, repeatedly, about "overwhelming, no-doubt evidence" that Saddam was involved in 9/11.

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2006/db060329.gif

The Repugs smearing war dissenters and Repug haters as "angry" is actually a compliment, and right on the mark. There are tons of Repug bullshit and Repug military deaths to be angry about.

[Vashner]

So Dr King's dream is only for Blacks or Iraqi's too?

Ya'll talk shit about freedom but just a bunch of spineless pussies when it comes to bad guys. I would rather kick saddams ass than suck his dick. Like a lot of people seem to want to do.

[Trainwreck2100]

^^Someone with guts and integrity. President Bush.

Guts yes, integrity no, he lied to the entire world, so yeah no integrity


So Dr King's dream is only for Blacks or Iraqi's too?

Ya'll talk shit about freedom but just a bunch of spineless pussies when it comes to bad guys. I would rather kick saddams ass than suck his dick. Like a lot of people seem to want to do.

Dr. King preached change through non-violence, so I doubt this is part of his dream.

[Darrin]

So Dr King's dream is only for Blacks or Iraqi's too?

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation."

Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 - A letter from jail.

[Darrin]

Don't kid yourself - he was dead-set on Iraq when he was still running for President in 2000. Just ask Bob Woodward - it was on his foreign policy agenda long before the "War on Terror."

[gtownspur]

Don't kid yourself - he was dead-set on Iraq when he was still running for President in 2000. Just ask Bob Woodward - it was on his foreign policy agenda long before the "War on Terror."

ANd it was also Algore's agenda.....

[Darrin]

ANd it was also Algore's agenda.....

It wasn't the Defense department's, headed civilian-wise by Republican William Cohen under President Clinton. His department laid out three key threats to the United States: 1. Al Qaeda, 2. Nuclear Proliferation, and 3. China.

I don't see Iraq mentioned anywhere in there. Paul Wolfowitz, on the other hand said "This is our way in(to) Iraq" within a week of September 11th.

All of this is from Bob Woodward's Plan of Attack.

[SA210]

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation."

Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 - A letter from jail.
Great words. A really good person.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

So Dr King's dream is only for Blacks or Iraqi's too?

Ya'll talk shit about freedom but just a bunch of spineless pussies when it comes to bad guys. I would rather kick saddams ass than suck his dick. Like a lot of people seem to want to do. http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif as usual you answers inspire laughter

[xrayzebra]

^^^
Bush = Integrity and guts?



:lmao

Someone with no guts and integrity....especially integrity.

[Darrin]

Great words. A really good person.

And I'd like to add tough. For someone to be more committed to an ideal than his own life, his over preservation, has to be the single hardest thing to do. To fight the natural instinct of survival and fear of death to be just. I cannot help but hold this man and what he represents as a personal hero of mine. He truly was a Christian in every sense of the word.

[xrayzebra]

^^I second that. He has more integrity in his little finger than
any dimm-o-crap has, period!

Hey heard the latest, the dimm-o-craps have a plan, trash Bush!

[ChumpDumper]

Hey heard the latest, the dimm-o-craps have a plan, trash Bush!
http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/mission-accomplished.jpg

It remains to be seen if they would do any better....

[xrayzebra]

^^Better than what?

[Darrin]

Well, Bush has failed. Anyone out of that White House who runs is going to have to run with a record of failure. Change for the sake of change is not productive, but that's how FDR ended up being elected; he wasn't Hoover.

Finding someone with integrity, ingenuity, and intelligence would be a step in the right direction, no matter the political party.

[Darrin]

^^I second that. He has more integrity in his little finger than
any dimm-o-crap has, period!

Hey heard the latest, the dimm-o-craps have a plan, trash Bush!

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a "dimm-o-crap."

[ChumpDumper]

^^Better than what?Better than Bush.

[101A]

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation."

Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 - A letter from jail.

Taking that quote at face value would mean we'd all be speaking German. Would have certainly solved the Muslim problem, however.

Always peace, never war is the height of naivity & is, frankly, dangerous. The low-point, historically, of US military preparedness and focus was 1939. The world paid dearly.

[xrayzebra]

Well, Bush has failed. Anyone out of that White House who runs is going to have to run with a record of failure. Change for the sake of change is not productive, but that's how FDR ended up being elected; he wasn't Hoover.

Finding someone with integrity, ingenuity, and intelligence would be a step in the right direction, no matter the political party.

Real trash talk. Bush has failed at nothing. The dimm-o-craps
are the failures and people like you. And tell me someone
in the dimm-o-crap party that has all the attributes you speak
of: integrity, ingenuity and intelligence. None that I can
think of. Deceit, lying and stonewalling are more there thing.

[xrayzebra]

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a "dimm-o-crap."

Yes and the dimms haven't practiced a thing he preached,
have they?

[Darrin]

Yes and the dimms haven't practiced a thing he preached,
have they?

What specifically are you referring to?

[jochhejaam]

Bush's perceived or real inadequacies could have been laid to rest if the Dems had run someone besides John "Idon'thaveaplan" Kerry. It was theirs to lose and not surprisingly they lost.
Idiots in the Dem Party will probably make the same mistake again. They're run by the left fringe of the Party so don't expect anything to change.

Frist or McCain and Allen > Hillary or Kerry and whoever. And "Screamin Dean's" their leader? :lol

[JoeChalupa]

So Dr King's dream is only for Blacks or Iraqi's too?

Ya'll talk shit about freedom but just a bunch of spineless pussies when it comes to bad guys. I would rather kick saddams ass than suck his dick. Like a lot of people seem to want to do.

There seems to be a lot of spineless pussies who aren't running to join the military these days. :rolleyes

[austinfan]

Ya'll talk shit about freedom but just a bunch of spineless pussies when it comes to bad guys. I would rather kick saddams ass than suck his dick. Like a lot of people seem to want to do.

Ah, yet another member of the 101st Keyboarders, sacrificing precious digital ink and hot air for the safety of our Republic.

[SA210]

And I'd like to add tough. For someone to be more committed to an ideal than his own life, his over preservation, has to be the single hardest thing to do. To fight the natural instinct of survival and fear of death to be just. I cannot help but hold this man and what he represents as a personal hero of mine. He truly was a Christian in every sense of the word.
Very true.

Since Xray is supposedly so pro MLK...:rolleyes
I'd like to add that Xray is against The Martin Luther King Holiday.

[SA210]

Bush has failed at nothing.
:lmao That was very convincing Xray. That was a good one.



:lmao :lol

[Darrin]

Bush's perceived or real inadequacies could have been laid to rest if the Dems had run someone besides John "Idon'thaveaplan" Kerry. It was theirs to lose and not surprisingly they lost.
Idiots in the Dem Party will probably make the same mistake again. They're run by the left fringe of the Party so don't expect anything to change.

Frist or McCain and Allen > Hillary or Kerry and whoever. And "Screamin Dean's" their leader? :lol

One thing I believe the Democrats have done a very poor job at doing is controlling the perception of the candidates. This is a problem that dates back to Dukakis, but has been influenced greatly by President Clinton's ability to reach across the aisle.

I don't think being "controlled" by the "extremist" elements of the party is the problem. I think the problem is that they overreach at the middle, and therefore, it's easier for the opposition to define our candidates.

An example: "Flip-flopper."

Bush goes through the campaign using this baseless charge because he happened to make a critical mistake in a turn-of-phrase. Kerry was taking a question about the war in Iraq and pivoting to the corrupt nature of lawmaking in the Congress. However, it's very easy to take 3 seconds of a 90 second explanation and beat Kerry over the head with it. We have to be smarter politicans; I don't think there is anything wrong with the way we govern. The last democratic President balanced an annual budget, grew the economyt while simultaneously increasing head start, Pell Grants, alternative education, K-12 education, and Medicare funding. It's just convincing the American people during a campaign that they are the better choice; a true alternative. The Republicans, in my opinion, have been working it from the otherside of the coin.