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Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 12:26 PM
http://www.nationalreview.com/kudlow/kudlow200410011607.asp

October 01, 2004, 4:07 p.m.

Putting Kerry to His “Global Test”
What about January 12, 1991?

Larry Kudlow
National Review

One of the more interesting parts of the Bush-Kerry debate in Coral Gables, Florida, was Senator Kerry’s reference to Papa Bush’s Persian Gulf War decision not to go into Baghdad thirteen years ago because there was no viable exit strategy. Undoubtedly, Kerry was intending to needle George W. Bush with this fatherly reference of caution, and perhaps Kerry is choosing to associate himself with Bush pere’s foreign policy. But like most of Kerry’s arguments, this too contains the flawed seeds of contradiction and equivocation.

Regrettably, President George W. Bush did not seize the moment to remind 55 million television viewers that on January 12, 1991, Sen. Kerry actually voted against S.J.RES.2, the congressional authorization that empowered President Bush 41 to liberate Kuwait after Saddam Hussein’s cruel invasion. This little bit of history sheds much light on Kerry’s past and casts a dark shadow over any of his new promises to successfully execute today’s war in Iraq.

Time and again on the campaign trail Kerry argues for a grand international alliance to win the Iraq war. He repeated this in the debate. But in 1991 the U.S. headed a grand alliance of 36 nations that was fully backed by a United Nations resolution. And Kerry still opposed that war to liberate Kuwait. The U.N.-backed coalition included Britain, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, and Qatar. All the pieces were there, including the cause of justice. Still he voted against it. How, knowing this, can anyone believe Kerry when he says he will show us a better way to defeat our terrorist enemies today?

If ever there was a military action that passed the “global test” — which Kerry argued for in the debate — the Persian Gulf War was it. It overwhelmingly met Kerry’s dubious standard — and still he opposed it. This reveals a credibility problem of the first order. Almost defining credulity, Kerry said in a brief statement on the Senate floor, in an accompaniment to his vote against the Persian Gulf War, that “The president made a mistake to unilaterally increase troops, set a date, and make war so probable.”

Clearly, Kerry has a very strong aversion to the use of military power under virtually any circumstance. Of course, this raises serious questions about Kerry’s ability to conduct any military operations against our fundamentalist radical-Islamist enemies. Can we really believe that the man who has called the war in Iraq a “grand diversion,” a “colossal error,” an “incredible mess,” and the “wrong war” in the “wrong place” at the “wrong time” — pessimistic and defeatist statements all — is capable of waging a strong foreign policy and prosecuting a military action of any sort? What’s really left here is the portrait of a politician steeped in ambiguity and equivocation who at bottom has a strong aversion to war of any kind, for any reason.

In one of his better moments in a somewhat energy-less debating performance, President Bush did in fact take Kerry to the woodshed for his notion of a “global test.” So did Bush’s vice president. In a campaign rally after the debate, Dick Cheney said, “We will never seek a permission slip to defend America.”

It seems to me that the American electorate knows full well that what’s at stake come November is not the next secretary general of the United Nations but the next president of the United States. In Bush’s closing statement he said, “I’ll never turn over America’s national-security needs to leaders of other countries. . . . and will continue to spread freedom. I believe in the transformational power of liberty. And I believe both a free Afghanistan and a free Iraq will serve as a powerful example for millions who plead in silence for liberty in the broader Middle East.” This excellent content will triumph over some stylistic mistakes. Kerry’s poor content, however, may have dug him into a deeper electoral hole.

The latest Gallup Poll of 615 registered voters who watched the presidential debate contains some startling results: On debate performance Kerry wins 53 percent to 37 percent. However, as to who would better handle the situation in Iraq, Bush wins 54 to 43. Who do these voters trust more to handle the responsibilities of commander-in-chief? Bush 54, Kerry 44. Who’s more believable? Bush 50, Kerry 45. More likable? Bush 48, Kerry 41. And the grand whopper — Who is tough enough for the job? Bush 54, Kerry 37.

Surely this shows the good sense of the American voter. Debating points are one thing, but truly strong national-security content is a much more important matter.

— Larry Kudlow, NRO’s Economics Editor, is CEO of Kudlow & Co. and host with Jim Cramer of CNBC's Kudlow & Cramer.

Nbadan
10-02-2004, 01:01 PM
and will continue to spread freedom. I believe in the transformational power of liberty.

One has to wonder if the people in Fallujah are feeling liberated about now?

Nbadan
10-02-2004, 01:07 PM
Poll after poll has proven that people want more International involvement in the war on terror and the war in Iraq. John Kerry will bring back countries to the table that under Bush treat the U.S. as a pharayia. Does that mean that Kerry will leave the protection of the U.S. strictly in the hands of foreigners? Of course not. Kerry said so himself during the debate.

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 02:11 PM
So how is John Kerry going to do that? Talk is cheap.

The American people do not want to give France, Germany, and Russia a veto over our national security.

Nbadan
10-02-2004, 02:19 PM
John Kerry said that he would not put the safety of our nation in the hands of another country. Talk is cheap for the W administration, since most world leaders already know that the Neocons have no intention of listening to their concerns over future U.S. world policy.

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 02:57 PM
So John Kerry has no answer other than he "says so."

Talk...is cheap.

spurster
10-02-2004, 02:59 PM
Should other countries have a veto on US decisions? No.

Should we listen to other countries? Yes. If we can't convince other countries (who, last time I checked, lived in the same world we do) of an "imminent threat", we'd better be doubly sure of what we are doing.

Should we cooperate with other countries? Yes. Bush has not met an international treaty or agreement that he doesn't like because it constrains or limits us in some way. Isn't that exactly what a treaty is supposed to do? They are not supposed to be tossed away or ignored or evaded when it's not convenient for us (e.g., Geneva conventions).

The bottom line is that if we want to lead the world, we need to show that we can work with them and not just dictate to them. After Iraq, Bush seems to have learned some lessons in that regard as he is trying to work with other countries now on Iran and North Korea.

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 03:05 PM
The assumption is that world bodies such as the United Nations are clean and pure and not worthy of skepticism. I disagree. Hussein thumbed his nose at the UN time and time again. At some point you have to recognize the situation and act.

What comes first is dealing with threats to this national security. Not leaving a Hussein in place with the sanctions scheme breaking down and of course, giving nuclear fuel to Iran and elevating North Korea to the status of a nation worthy of bilateral diplomacy with the United States.

But I am not surprised. John Kerry says that the United States cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. If you agree with Senator Kerry's point of view perhaps it is preferable to submit ourselves to the desires of the world.

Nbadan
10-02-2004, 03:45 PM
Not leaving a Hussein in place with the sanctions scheme breaking down and of course, giving nuclear fuel to Iran and elevating North Korea to the status of a nation worthy of bilateral diplomacy with the United States.

There is zero evidence that the inspection and sanctions against Hussein and Iraq were breaking down. In fact, after-war inspections have proven that the sanctions were working better than expected.

The Russians are giving fuel and the rods neccessary to power Iran nuclear plants under the supervision of the International Atomic Agency. If this was a rational for attacking Iraq then why is Russia considered a partner in the war on terrorism?

North Korea has nuclear weapons. Whether the Bushiveks want to admit it or not, the North Koreans are a major player now in Asian regional issues. 6-way or 5-way party talks are no way to deal with a player who could have such a drastic effect on policy in the region.

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 03:53 PM
That is a pipedream. Hussein was expoliting the UN Oil for Food program to the benefit of the nations who predictably failed to stand with the United States against the removal of Hussein as well as Kofi Annan's son.

France and Russia were dealing with Hussein and he was amassing great wealth. Great wealth which he could use to procure and develop WMDs. The 9/11 Commission found that the Hussein had direct contacts with al Qaeda. The Iraq invasion was necessary to prevent that relationship from developing further. Fuck waiting to be attacked again in order to justify a strike against Iraq. That is irresponsible and just plain ignorant.

Giving nuclear material to Iran is incredibly stupid. Just because the Russians are doing so does not excuse that.

John Kerry would disregard those nations who obviously are concerned about the activities of the North Koreans and again, elevate a sick individual to the status of being worthy of the respect of individual talks with these United States.

John Kerry along with yourself do not feel that the United States can be trusted with nuclear weaponry. You feel we are the problem. The truth of the matter is that you and the senator are the problem and it small surprise that you represent a minority view in this nation.

Nbadan
10-02-2004, 04:43 PM
France and Russia were dealing with Hussein and he was amassing great wealth. Great wealth which he could use to procure and develop WMDs. The 9/11 Commission found that the Hussein had direct contacts with al Qaeda. The Iraq invasion was necessary to prevent that relationship from developing further. Fuck waiting to be attacked again in order to justify a strike against Iraq. That is irresponsible and just plain ignorant.

He could use, but he didn't. Every country with oil wealth is capable of doing the same thing. Does that mean that we should preemtively strike them just in case they get any funny ideas?

Donald Rumsfeld had direct contact with Al-queda and Saddam Hussein. Does that make Rummy a terrorist or terrorist supporter?

Once again, even with the 911 Commission report, there is zero evidence to prove that Iraq under Hussein participated in, planned for, or supplied money or logistics to terrorists intent on attacking the U.S. or Americans.

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 04:56 PM
Hussein had done so in the past and WMDs are available for purchase globally.

The United States had diplomatic engagements with Iraq when you know, the USSR was an actual threat which you and your ilk seemed unable or too ignorant to grasp. I'm still not sure which.

No one has ever claimed that Hussein supported the 9/11 attacks. That is a lame fucking strawman which takes away the focus from the real issue which was taking the offense in dealing with threats to this nation instead of hoping they go away.

BronxCowboy
10-02-2004, 04:59 PM
[/QUOTE] The truth of the matter is that you and the senator are the problem and it small surprise that you represent a minority view in this nation.[/QUOTE]

And what problem would you be referring to now? I thought you were making the case that Hussein was the problem (never mind Osama bin Laden). Do you represent the "majority view?" Damn, we're all fucked.

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 05:03 PM
Nuclear proliferation.

Yes, it is a majority view in this country that this nation is responsible to posess nuclear arms. Do you feel otherwise?

BronxCowboy
10-02-2004, 05:35 PM
Nuclear proliferation.

Yes, it is a majority view in this country that this nation is responsible to posess nuclear arms. Do you feel otherwise?

I don't think I understand. You're saying that Senator Kerry and everyone who fears that the US is irresponsible are somehow responsible for nuclear proliferation?!? I'm not a fan of Kerry myself, but do you really think I can take that assertion seriously? Come on.

BronxCowboy
10-02-2004, 05:37 PM
By the way, the world leader in production, stockpiling and USE of nuclear weapons is the U.S. of A. Doesn't that make you feel proud to be an American?

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 05:42 PM
So you and Kerry share an extreme minority view that the US is not responsible with nuclear weaponry.

BronxCowboy
10-02-2004, 07:10 PM
As for my view on the proliferation/use of nuclear weapons by the US, I only stated openly acknowledged fact. You still have not answered: how can you say that Kerry and anyone who believes that the US is irresponsible are "the problem" of nuclear proliferation?!? The reason you won't answer is that you can't support that ludicrous position. Not that I would be interested in anything you have to say anyway, seeing as you only know how to recite White House/Fox news talking points, moron.

Marcus Bryant
10-02-2004, 08:01 PM
I did not claim that those who feel the United States is "irresponsible" with regards to nukes have created the problem of nuclear proliferation.

I don't need talking points to refute your stupidity nor have I ever had a copy of such points. Now come with a real point or get back to hoping that John Kerry wins so you can get the handouts you are unable to earn on your own.

BronxCowboy
10-03-2004, 06:33 AM
John Kerry along with yourself do not feel that the United States can be trusted with nuclear weaponry. You feel we are the problem. The truth of the matter is that you and the senator are the problem and it small surprise that you represent a minority view in this nation.


So you didn't post this? This was my point all along. I asked you what problem you were referring to here, and you said nuclear proliferation. If that's not what you meant, feel free to clarify. If on the other hand you just want to back out of your dumbass statement, then don't bother to reply.

Marcus Bryant
10-03-2004, 09:47 AM
Again, the United States did not directly create the problem of nuclear proliferation. I never claimed it did. Kerry's position would definitely be a problem when it comes to dealing with nuclear proliferation today. Entirely different matter.

If there was ever a "dumbass statement" in this forum it is your regurgitation of John Forbes Kerry's claim that this nation can not be trusted with nuclear weapons.

Oh, and so much for your hero's brilliant idea to give the Iranians nuclear reactor fuel:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20041003/pl_nm/nuclear_iran_kerry_dc


TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran on Sunday rebuffed a proposal by U.S. presidential candidate John Kerry who has suggested supplying the Islamic state with nuclear fuel for power reactors if Tehran agrees to give up its own fuel-making capability.

Foreign ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said it would be “irrational” for Iran to put its nuclear program in jeopardy by relying on supplies from abroad.


So not only would such an idea be akin to throwing gasoline on a raging fire in the hopes that it would put it out, but it wouldn't even work diplomatically.

Brilliant.

BronxCowboy
10-03-2004, 11:07 AM
Wow, you are thick, aren't you? First, you still didn't explain what you meant by saying that Kerry and people who think that the US shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons are "the problem." At this point, I don't think you can, so I'm going to give up trying to get you to. Secondly, I didn't make any value judgements (or regurgitations of Kerry positions) as to whether the US could be trusted with nuclear weapons. I only pointed out the record. Too bad you have a problem with facts. Maybe they make you uncomfortable, but if we WANT the US to be considered trustworthy, we have to face them. Finally, Kerry is not my hero. As I stated before, I don't even like him (or agree with him very often). And I have no argument with you about whether it was good or bad to give Iran nuclear reactor fuel. I only ever wanted to call you to task for stating that Kerry/people who feel that US shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons are, as you put it, the problem. Since you keep refusing to answer for your position, I can only assume that you are intellectually irresponsible and not worth debating with.

Marcus Bryant
10-03-2004, 11:32 AM
Wow, you are thick, aren't you?

I've heard that before. :)




First, you still didn't explain what you meant by saying that Kerry and people who think that the US shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons are "the problem." At this point, I don't think you can, so I'm going to give up trying to get you to.


I just explained what I meant, since you have been unable to understand. Yes, if you don't get it by now you should stop.



Secondly, I didn't make any value judgements (or regurgitations of Kerry positions) as to whether the US could be trusted with nuclear weapons. I only pointed out the record. Too bad you have a problem with facts.


Oh so you didn't have an argument you just made some claims...er, "facts".



Maybe they make you uncomfortable, but if we WANT the US to be considered trustworthy, we have to face them.

Nothing you have written has made me "uncomfortable." You took the position that the United States has been irresponsible with nuclear weaponry.



Finally, Kerry is not my hero. As I stated before, I don't even like him (or agree with him very often).

You might've stated that to your dog but I've never seen you write such a thing.



And I have no argument with you about whether it was good or bad to give Iran nuclear reactor fuel. I only ever wanted to call you to task for stating that Kerry/people who feel that US shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons are, as you put it, the problem. Since you keep refusing to answer for your position, I can only assume that you are intellectually irresponsible and not worth debating with.

And yet you continue to respond. Go figure.

MannyIsGod
10-03-2004, 12:08 PM
The UN and other world institutions are worthy of criticism. But keep in mind that when the United States itself only uses the UN when it is convienent, don't blast other countries for doing the same.

IE

UN says we can go to war in IRAQ.

BUT, we careless what they say about Israel.

Aggie Hoopsfan
10-03-2004, 08:42 PM
John Kerry will bring back countries to the table that under Bush treat the U.S. as a pharayia.

No amount of John Kerry ass kissing is going to get countries who were pocketing billions under the UN food for oil crap to come back into the fold.

That is, unless you think we should raise taxes again to fund our kickbacks to them to be corrupt in our favor...