Men and Fear

[ploto]

We had the question a while back about someone wanting to know about women- so I thought I would ask about men.

Now, I am not talking about the commitment-phobic guy- I am just wondering about men in general and why so many seem to get afraid when "things" start to mean something. What are you so scared of?? being hurt, being vulnerable, losing something, ... Again, I do NOT mean a situation where the woman is putting pressure on you or wanting some kind of commitment. I just mean that moment when you know you both realize that there could really be something there. Why is that terrifying?

[Old School Chic]

We had the question a while back about someone wanting to know about women- so I thought I would ask about men.

Now, I am not talking about the commitment-phobic guy- I am just wondering about men in general and why so many seem to get afraid when "things" start to mean something. What are you so scared of?? being hurt, being vulnerable, losing something, ... Again, I do NOT mean a situation where the woman is putting pressure on you or wanting some kind of commitment. I just mean that moment when you know you both realize that there could really be something there. Why is that terrifying?

Men are not as mature as they seem to be

[polandprzem]

You know commitment and freedome

[timvp]

We think you are going to turn off the game.

[CharlieMac]

Because I liked banging hot chicks. Seriously. For a few days I was bummed out that my nights of bars, sex, and hanging out with friends were over, but then I realized that I'd hit 30 someday and I don't think that will be so much fun then.

[Juice]

men hate to feel vulnerable, best just to get knocked up.

[Vashner]

People are always looking for the better deal or the "one".

It's also a cultural thing right now with a decline in traditional weddings.

Then when they realize the good ones get away they cry and get drunk..

rinse / repete...

[Samr]

.

[ploto]

We think you are going to turn off the game.
I would never do such a thing!!

[Jimcs50]

Because men never grow up. We are perpetually in adolescence.

[Messican Lover]

This is easy, its not that we are afraid to take things a step further, its the endless piles of BS that comes along for the ride. Incesent nagging and bitching. Seriously we just can't take the guessing game that you call dialogue. Every statement and phrase is shrouded in some kind of code that we better damn well decipher or its rice and bread with no BJ for months. Its to damn stressful. So we wait for the either the best friend that we can fuck or the closest thing to real love that we can tolerate.

[SpursWoman]

This is easy, its not that we are afraid to take things a step further, its the endless piles of BS that comes along for the ride. Incesent nagging and bitching. Seriously we just can't take the guessing game that you call dialogue. Every statement and phrase is shrouded in some kind of code that we better damn well decipher or its rice and bread with no BJ for months. Its to damn stressful. So we wait for the either the best friend that we can fuck or the closest thing to real love that we can tolerate.

I don't know who you married, but that's a really bad stereotype.

[Messican Lover]

I don't know who you married, but that's a really bad stereotype.I agree. I am definately not stating this is my situation. Yes it is a very broad stereotype but I do feel there is more than a shread of truth to it. I've been married twice when I was young and dumb and I'm sure I'll see a third sooner than later. I also have tons of friends and family members that have been or are married. Most guys don't have the sack to admit it but as a man gets older his disires for a stressless world grow.

We don't mind doing chores around the house and we don't mind dealing with your monthly visitor. Its the coded language you speak that drives us up a wall.

Example:

Messican Lover: Honey I finished the yard early and I cleaned the kitchen before you got up this morning. Some of the guys are going down to the park to play some ball about 3 today would you mind if I got a game or two for a couple of hours before we start dinner.

Messican Lovers Wife or Girlfriend(in a firm voice without smiling): You go ahead and do what you want. If thats what you would like to do on your day off since the chores are done you go ahead and play as long as you like. I guess your planning on drinking a few beers with boys to huh.

Sounds sweet and she said the right thing.

I don't have the Wife to real world handbook but let me translate this for you.

Messican Lovers Wife or Girlfriend: You go ahead and play with your little friends and see what happens next. I see that you got up early to finish you chores so you could go out and play but why the hell don't you get up early to knock out them chores so we can spend a afternoon together at the mall or the movies. Your busy all week long and on your day off you don't spend anytime with me.

Anyone who is married or with someone has been face with that quandry and then they wonder why when they get home the wife is all pissed off and not saying anything.

Man will say: whats whats wrong baby you don't feel good or something.

Wife: No I'm fine and you know whats wrong "how was your game".

Were fucked right there :madrun

Wouldn't life have been much easier if she would have just said "can you play ball another day I would really like to do something together this afternoon babe its been awile since you took me to the mall or movies."

Lot less room for catastrophically bad decisions to make there. Clear cut demands are so much better than leaving us with a bad decision to accidently make. Quit letting us fuck ourselves.

Most may deny it but this happens all the time.

[Paulie]

That was dead-on Messican Lover.
Noone has the cajones to admit it.

I'm threw with serious relationships. I shoulda moved ta Miami when I had the chance.
I heard they need new gigilos.

[SpursWoman]

Wouldn't life have been much easier if she would have just said "can you play ball another day I would really like to do something together this afternoon babe its been awile since you took me to the mall or movies."


Example from her POV: You always want to have sex, she doesn't. How does it make you feel when you have to beg for it? Depending on your ego, you may start to think that maybe you just aren't doing it for her and she doesn't want you bad enough to bother. On the other hand, it makes you feel like a damn stud when she initiates the nooky, doesn't it? Like she just can't keep her hands off of you.

In that situation, she wants you to initiate the quality time or whatever, so she can feel like a stud, so to speak. Which generally will end up with you feeling like a stud also. Win-win, so I wouldn't bitch too much about it. :)

[Hook Dem]

Men are not as mature as they seem to be
Me thinks you are right!

[Messican Lover]

:stirpot: You proved my point right their why does it have to be a god damn murder mystery to get things done the right way. I need Matlock and the old bag from Murder She Wrote to try to solve the mystery that is women.

If your not in the mood let me know if you want sex let me know if you want jewelry or clothes let me know just don't let me know how much.

At some point it has to be "hey we've been together for X amount of years so just come out and say it" I think 90% of men have proven we are incapable or reading between the lines of another vagina monologue.

How long does a man need to be with a women for her to stop speaking codes.


Example from her POV: You always want to have sex, she doesn't. How does it make you feel when you have to beg for it? Depending on your ego, you may start to think that maybe you just aren't doing it for her and she doesn't want you bad enough to bother. On the other hand, it makes you feel like a damn stud when she initiates the nooky, doesn't it? Like she just can't keep her hands off of you.

In that situation, she wants you to initiate the quality time or whatever, so she can feel like a stud, so to speak. Which generally will end up with you feeling like a stud also. Win-win, so I wouldn't bitch too much about it. :)

[1Parker1]

Not sure about this, since I've never been married, but I would think that the "coded" language talk would stop once you've been with the person for a while and/or are married to them. Isn't that one of the reasons you love someone in the first place? Because you can be yourself around them and you don't have to use some sort of coded language around them because you feel comfortable enough with them to say what's really on your mind?

[SpursWoman]

If I have to beg for something, it takes all of the pleasure out of receiving it ... whether it's sex, attention, time together or whatever. I'll go look somewhere where it doesn't seem like such an inconvenience.

I didn't realize that was that hard of a concept to grasp.

[Messican Lover]

Me thinks you are right!
I'm gonna get blasted right here but I'm gonna say it anyway. Its not lack of being mature is that we exhaust ourselves all day long playing mindfuck with our bosses, customers, and co-workers that when we get home we just want to go into operation shut down and call it a day. We need to crank our brain power down from 80% to something near ape like status just to relax.


Disclaimer: This statement is in now way meant to be critical of the working women as this is just a generalization. Also stay at home moms please advise that this is just a sterotype intended for entertainment purposes only. Men please do not try this at home.

[Messican Lover]

If I have to beg for something, I don't want it ... whether it's sex, time together or whatever. I'll go look somewhere where it doesn't seem like such an inconvenience.

I didn't realize that was that hard of a concept to grasp.Typical women. If you don't play my game I'll play it with the UPS guy or some dude who checked me out while shopping on your dime with the ladies. We treat you like godesses why are we so disposable. I think its been like this for way to long. Its a attitude like that which keeps the divorce rate so high. We aim to please just help us to understand your needs without playing games is all we ask.

[SpursWoman]

Typical women. If you don't play my game I'll play it with the UPS guy or some dude who checked me out while shopping on your dime with the ladies. We treat you like godesses why are we so disposable. I think its been like this for way to long. Its a attitude like that which keeps the divorce rate so high. We aim to please just help us to understand your needs without playing games is all we ask.

Wanting your partner to pay attention to you without having to beg for it...and being hurt if he doesn't is a game? WTFever, dude. I can definitely see a number 3, 4 & 5 in your future. :lol

Bottom line: she needs you to act like you actually want to be with her every once in a while without having to beg or nag you to act that way. Duh.

I've already done the marriage thing and I know what I can and cannot tolerate. And selfish, inconsiderate men are one of them. No, I have no problem not settling with someone just so I can get laid every once in a while. :fro

[ploto]

What happened to my thread???

I thought I tried to make it clear that I was not referering to marriage or even serious, long-term relationships. I was not talking about someone who wants to control what you do or any of that. I was referring to the moment when the guy realizes that this girl "gets" to him and he can't seem to handle that. Maybe it is about a loss of control?

[SpursWoman]

What happened to my thread???

I thought I tried to make it clear that I was not referering to marriage or even serious, long-term relationships. I was not talking about someone who wants to control what you do or any of that. I was referring to the moment when the guy realizes that this girl "gets" to him and he can't seem to handle that. Maybe it is about a loss of control?


Uh, if it's not serious or getting there, why would fear even be an issue? I've never met a man in my life that experience fear from casual dating or one night stands.

:fro

Usually if a guy finally thinks *shes* the one, he gets freaked out by the possible commitment that means...which would include messicanlover's bullshit, whiny stereotypes above. :lol

[ploto]

I think there can exist something between a casual date and a relationship that has become serious.

And men always tell me- they clearly know the difference between a woman for a casual date and a woman for something that means something.

[Messican Lover]

Its not bullshit its pretty damn accurate. I agree women need a man to somewhat understand the importance of staying fresh within a relationship. I also understand women don't want to beg or be begged for sex. We need to wise up at times and try to make a women feel like they are number one no matter how long we have been together I get it but you gals take it to far.

I was simply zeroing in on cutting out some of the back and forth bullshit code women speak in. I guess you have made it perfectly clear a women needs to hide her innermost feelings with a bunch of mumbo jumbo that we should decipher to make her feel wanted or she'll find someone who will.

I supposes if you wanted to have a whirlwind relationship where no one just comes out and says what they feel please help yourself but there is no way any man is going going to want that kind of life or relationship. These are fundamental differences between men and women.

I give you the benefit of the doubt and agree we should do more and be better but like most women I'm sure it just isn't enough.

[Jekka]

Incesent nagging

I just wanted to bring up that if a woman is said to be "nagging", then she's usually reminding you to do the same thing over and over again - in which case, why can't you just fucking remember that whatever it is you are or aren't doing pisses off the woman in question? If it's something unreasonable then you need to talk to her about it, and if it's not an unreasonable request, then might it not be in everyone's best interest to just think about what you're doing before you get "nagged"?

[SpursWoman]

I just wanted to bring up that if a woman is said to be "nagging", then she's usually reminding you to do the same thing over and over again - in which case, why can't you just fucking remember that whatever it is you are or aren't doing pisses off the woman in question? If it's something unreasonable then you need to talk to her about it, and if it's not an unreasonable request, then might it not be in everyone's best interest to just think about what you're doing before you get "nagged"?



No shit. :tu :lol


If it's gotten down to the incessant nagging stage, that's a good indication she's brought up the issue more than once. Just fucking do it and STFU and you won't hear it anymore. Not a difficult concept to grasp, either. :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

No shit. :tu :lol


If it's gotten down to the incessant nagging stage, that's a good indication she's brought up the issue more than once. Just fucking do it and STFU and you won't hear it anymore. Not a difficult concept to grasp, either. :lol

Just because you are incapable of doing it yourself, doesn't mean the man should have to at your timetable

[Messican Lover]

Just because you are incapable of doing it yourself, doesn't mean the man should have to at your timetable
True True True. Women are equal right they can everything a man can do and do it better right.

[SpursWoman]

Just because you are incapable of doing it yourself, doesn't mean the man should have to at your timetable


I have no problem doing everything all by myself everyday...I have for years and years and years. But I'm only human ... I'm going to be really fucking tired come bed time. And I'm going to be really fucking tired when you need a dish for the office potluck, or cookies or WTFuckever special favor you want, too. :)


YKWIM? ;)

[SpursWoman]

True True True. Women are equal right they can everything a man can do and do it better right.


What does that have to do with taking out the trash or not spending all of the rent money at the bar? :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

I have no problem doing everything all by myself everyday...I have for years and years and years. But I'm only human ... I'm going to be really fucking tired come bed time. And I'm going to be really fucking tired when you need a dish for the office potluck, or cookies or WTFuckever special favor you want, too. :)


YKWIM? ;)

As someone who enjoys cooking, I'm am easily capable of making my own dish/cookies/badass potato soup.

[SpursWoman]

As someone who enjoys cooking, I'm am easily capable of making my own dish/cookies/badass potato soup.

That's awesome ... seriously. :tu


But do you pick up your own dirty underwear off the floor and put it in the hamper? :lol :lol

[Mixability]

As someone who enjoys cooking, I'm am easily capable of making my own dish/cookies/badass potato soup.

and with your avatar and your right hand, you'll never need a wife anyway. :lol

[midgetonadonkey]

I cook, wash dishes, clean the house, and do laundry. My girlfriend is so busy with her first year of teaching I decided to do what I needed to do so she doesn't have to worry about housework, she can just focus on her work.

I don't complain as long as she provides me with what I need in the bedroom. And if she doesn't bitch about me doing all that work while I'm drunk.

[Mixability]

I cook, wash dishes, clean the house, and do laundry. My girlfriend is so busy with her first year of teaching I decided to do what I needed to do so she doesn't have to worry about housework, she can just focus on her work.

I don't complain as long as she provides me with what I need in the bedroom. And if she doesn't bitch about me doing all that work while I'm drunk.

:worthy:

[SpursWoman]

And if she doesn't bitch about me doing all that work while I'm drunk.

:lol

[Cupid]

I admit my job has gotten much tougher over the past decade or so.

[Messican Lover]

What does that have to do with taking out the trash or not spending all of the rent money at the bar? :lol
I agree guidlines need to be set. I didn't go to the bar or breast lounge and in turn she stayed out of the clubs. I don't have a problem with picking up after myself or knocking out some dishes but I don't have to worry about picking up some undies because I don't wear any anyhow.

We just don't want to hear "clean out the garage" 36 times ok its a big job and we know it needs to get done we just need to find the right frame of mind to do it or its going to be half assed.

[SpursWoman]

Yeah, someoneIknow has been avoiding getting in the right frame of mind for something for almost 4 months already ... and I refuse to say a word about it.


And it's sooooooo hard, trust me ... :devil :lmao

[MoSpur]

I have never been afraid of things getting serious. I felt the exact opposite.

[Trainwreck2100]

I agree guidlines need to be set. I didn't go to the bar or breast lounge and in turn she stayed out of the clubs. I don't have a problem with picking up after myself or knocking out some dishes but I don't have to worry about picking up some undies because I don't wear any anyhow.

We just don't want to hear "clean out the garage" 36 times ok its a big job and we know it needs to get done we just need to find the right frame of mind to do it or its going to be half assed.


Damn right, if the man don't want to do it, he'll half ass it all the way.

[ShoogarBear]

Because men never grow up. We are perpetually in adolescence.
Are not!

[Louae]

I agree. I am definately not stating this is my situation. Yes it is a very broad stereotype but I do feel there is more than a shread of truth to it. I've been married twice when I was young and dumb and I'm sure I'll see a third sooner than later. I also have tons of friends and family members that have been or are married. Most guys don't have the sack to admit it but as a man gets older his disires for a stressless world grow.

We don't mind doing chores around the house and we don't mind dealing with your monthly visitor. Its the coded language you speak that drives us up a wall.

Example:

Messican Lover: Honey I finished the yard early and I cleaned the kitchen before you got up this morning. Some of the guys are going down to the park to play some ball about 3 today would you mind if I got a game or two for a couple of hours before we start dinner.

Messican Lovers Wife or Girlfriend(in a firm voice without smiling): You go ahead and do what you want. If thats what you would like to do on your day off since the chores are done you go ahead and play as long as you like. I guess your planning on drinking a few beers with boys to huh.

Sounds sweet and she said the right thing.

I don't have the Wife to real world handbook but let me translate this for you.

Messican Lovers Wife or Girlfriend: You go ahead and play with your little friends and see what happens next. I see that you got up early to finish you chores so you could go out and play but why the hell don't you get up early to knock out them chores so we can spend a afternoon together at the mall or the movies. Your busy all week long and on your day off you don't spend anytime with me.

Anyone who is married or with someone has been face with that quandry and then they wonder why when they get home the wife is all pissed off and not saying anything.

Man will say: whats whats wrong baby you don't feel good or something.

Wife: No I'm fine and you know whats wrong "how was your game".

Were fucked right there :madrun

Wouldn't life have been much easier if she would have just said "can you play ball another day I would really like to do something together this afternoon babe its been awile since you took me to the mall or movies."

Lot less room for catastrophically bad decisions to make there. Clear cut demands are so much better than leaving us with a bad decision to accidently make. Quit letting us fuck ourselves.

Most may deny it but this happens all the time.

That's just too much. So true.

[Clandestino]

What happened to my thread???

I thought I tried to make it clear that I was not referering to marriage or even serious, long-term relationships. I was not talking about someone who wants to control what you do or any of that. I was referring to the moment when the guy realizes that this girl "gets" to him and he can't seem to handle that. Maybe it is about a loss of control?

maybe, it's because we don't want our sanchas to take up too much of our time bc then our real girlfriend will find out..

[TOP-CHERRY]

I am just wondering about men in general and why so many seem to get afraid when "things" start to mean something. What are you so scared of?? being hurt, being vulnerable, losing something, ...
Not trying to change the subject here, but... you'd be surprised how many women are afraid of the same thing. It's not just a guy thing (even though I guess they're the majority).

[polandprzem]

The main problem is that the World is fucked up

[pache100]

If I have to beg for something, it takes all of the pleasure out of receiving it ... whether it's sex, attention, time together or whatever. I'll go look somewhere where it doesn't seem like such an inconvenience.

I didn't realize that was that hard of a concept to grasp.

Truer words were never said! That sums it up perfectly. You'd think after about a THOUSAND times of going through this, it wouldn't be so hard. It's not rocket surgery in the first place. All they gotta do is THINK!


she's usually reminding you to do the same thing over and over again - in which case, why can't you just fucking remember that whatever it is you are or aren't doing pisses off the woman in question?

God, I am loving this discussion!!!!!!!!! That is SO right on the money!

[pache100]

I have no problem doing everything all by myself everyday...I have for years and years and years.

Neither do I, I've been doing stuff for and by myself for about 36 years, since I left my parents' house. That is not the issue nor the problem.

[TOP-CHERRY]

Aww, I love Sylvester!

[pache100]

Aww, I love Sylvester!

Me, too. He looks (and acts, usually) exactly like my baby, who is very very sick right now. In fact, I'm about to leave work and take him to the vet.

[TOP-CHERRY]

Me, too. He looks (and acts, usually) exactly like my baby, who is very very sick right now. In fact, I'm about to leave work and take him to the vet.
Hope everything turns out okay with your baby.

[polandprzem]

(Sylvester) He looks (and acts, usually) exactly like my baby, .

I don't know if congratualte you.....

[Old School Chic]

Me, too. He looks (and acts, usually) exactly like my baby, who is very very sick right now. In fact, I'm about to leave work and take him to the vet.


Hope everything turns out ok... :spin

[Brutalis]

Example from her POV: You always want to have sex, she doesn't. How does it make you feel when you have to beg for it? Depending on your ego, you may start to think that maybe you just aren't doing it for her and she doesn't want you bad enough to bother. On the other hand, it makes you feel like a damn stud when she initiates the nooky, doesn't it? Like she just can't keep her hands off of you.

In that situation, she wants you to initiate the quality time or whatever, so she can feel like a stud, so to speak. Which generally will end up with you feeling like a stud also. Win-win, so I wouldn't bitch too much about it. :)

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[tlongII]

I fear honesty.

[Darrin]

:stirpot: You proved my point right their why does it have to be a god damn murder mystery to get things done the right way. I need Matlock and the old bag from Murder She Wrote to try to solve the mystery that is women.

If your not in the mood let me know if you want sex let me know if you want jewelry or clothes let me know just don't let me know how much.

At some point it has to be "hey we've been together for X amount of years so just come out and say it" I think 90% of men have proven we are incapable or reading between the lines of another vagina monologue.

How long does a man need to be with a women for her to stop speaking codes.

I see this from both sides, but it seems to me that it boils down to two competing opposites: actions vs. words.

The wife/GF in your example is saying "show me as much attention as you show your friends." She is comparing today to yesterday, and wondering why the boys are more important than she is, and in extension, this tests his skills as a father.

Think about it: If the child cannot speak for him or herself, and his options are open, will he do what he wants at the expense of the child?

Let's not forget that we are still animals, and biologically speaking, the basis for these relationships, and having two genders, is raising a child. Who gets stuck with providing for and protecting that child if the relationship ends? She has to interpret intent to avoid problems before they arise.

My point is that trying to change the "endless mindgames" is pointless because it serves a purpose.

How do you avoid failing? Don't ever show more love to anything besides her, and by extension, the family you may have. The greatest expressions of love are time and energy. The guy, in your example, exterted more time and energy - through planning and getting the chores done - to go play basketball than he showed his GF/wife. It's not about what he did that day, it's about what he didn't do the past 3 weeks in comparison to that day. And because he has complete contol over his time and energy, why would she have to point out what he's been doing to her?

If you expect her to spell out what's "wrong," then she's done all the work for you, and she doesn't get a true measurment of how much you love her. She just becomes another one of your chores. She wants you to want her.

I think this is pretty simple stuff.

As for the original question, males value independance, order, and the ability to make a decision. This requires evalutation and diagnosis to make an informed decision. Those skills are honed by society - if you look at stereotypical professions and hobbies for males, you'll see a sense of order and exact measurements of the physical world. There's a lot of math, principles, and consistency.

Relationships are much more complicated and inexact. In addition to giving up independance, things can change in the relationship, from the male point-of-view, at a virtual "drop of a hat." This leaves the ability to protect against pain virtually useless.

When a man cuts his finger, he knows the source of the pain. He knows he has to stop the bleeding, clean the cut, and let it heal. He knows the cut has healed when he can see it no longer. When he suffers 2, 3 cuts, he knows how long it will take to heal. The cut usually leads to a story about physical prowess - carrying something heavy, getting in a fight, or how easily he took care of the problem.

When it comes to emotional pain, how to do you triage? Where is the location of that pain? It is a lack of order in creatures that crave it. That situation is avoided at all costs - even a rewarding relationship. Also, go back to what I said about this earlier - it's about children. Committing to her means committing to that family, and more variables to consider in his decisions.

That's my two cents.

[SpursWoman]

That's my two cents.


A bargain at any price. :tu :)