Mvp Race

[JamStone]

The way I see it, the candidates are (in order of how I think the race is right now, but certainly not concrete):

1. Steve Nash
2. Kobe Bryant (if I had a vote, I'd probably give it to Kobe)
3. LeBron James
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chauncey Billups
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Allen Iverson
8. Tony Parker
9. Elton Brand
10. Shawn Marion

Choose who you would vote for and make your case.

[1Parker1]

Pippen and Company were having that discussion yesterday. I believe they all voted for Nash/Marion as co-MVP's, Kobe, Lebron, Billups, and Dirk as their top choices....with Kobe getting the nod.

When asked why no one from San Antonio, they all said how Tim Duncan was playing below average until recently and so he really didn't stand much of a chance. Which I didn't understand how Tony Parker or Duncan shouldn't at least be mentioned. How does no one from the team with the best WC record get mentioned for the award?

Anyways, they brought up a good point about how come Kobe gets the MVP nod, but not AI. They pointed out that you can't compare the level Kobe has been playing this season to anyone else and that Kobe led his team to 4 games above .500 while the Sixers are 4 below .500 in the EC.

If Kobe can continue to play the way he has been, I think he'll probably get it.

[v2000]

The way I see it, the candidates are (in order of how I think the race is right now, but certainly not concrete):

1. Steve Nash
2. Kobe Bryant (if I had a vote, I'd probably give it to Kobe)
3. LeBron James
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chauncey Billups
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Allen Iverson
8. Tony Parker
9. Elton Brand
10. Shawn Marion

Choose who you would vote for and make your case.

IMO, its simply between Nash and Dirk. MAYBE Lebron. Anyways, they both have great numbers, they are both very efficient, and have battled with significant injuries (Suns: Stoudemire, Grant, Thomas. Mavs: Howard, Daniels, Van Horn, Harris, Griffin, Stackhouse.), more than most teams in the league, and still have led their teams to excellent records. It's hard to choose, but since I'm a Mavs fan, I gotta go with Dirk. Considering all the injuries, and the fact that there is still a chance at winning the division (extremely small though...), I gotta hand it to Dirk. He has battled like a warrior, night in and night out over the past month, despite all the injuries and lack of support. The fact that they can, and probably will, win 60 games, with all the injuries is amazing.

[LEONARD]

Dirk
Nash
Billups
LeBron
Kobe

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

My list looks like this:

1. Lebron

2. Dirk

3. Kobe

4. Chauncey

5. Elton

6. Nash

7. AI

8. Marion

9. Parker

10. Wade

If Nash wins it with the kind of seasons some of these guys are having, then the MVP will forever be a farce IMO...

[nkdlunch]

1. nash
2. dirk
3. kobe
4. billups
5. lebron

[baseline bum]

1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. Dirk

Looks like this is the first season Duncan won't make All-NBA First Team...

C Shaq
F Dirk
F LeBron
G Kobe
G Nash

[Spurminator]

I've argued against Billups in the past but he won a lot of points with me on Sunday.

I think I'd still give it to Dirk, but he's slipping.

[ALVAREZ6]

Either Nash, Kobe, or Billups.

[LEONARD]

I've argued against Billups in the past but he won a lot of points with me on Sunday.

I think I'd still give it to Dirk, but he's slipping.

Dirk has been pretty good during the Mavs short-handed stretch...

30 pts / 10 reb's over the last 11 games or so...

Billups has been money lately though, and head to head at the end of the Mavs game. Hard to give it to a guy with that kind of talent around him though. Detroit would still be a good team without him. Not so sure about the Mavs...

[Dre_7]

Billups
Nash
Kobe
Dirk

[pking]

I've argued against Billups in the past but he won a lot of points with me on Sunday.

I think I'd still give it to Dirk, but he's slipping.


Actually, in March, Dirk averaged 30 and 10 on 49% shooting, 40% from 3, 90% from the line in 17 games.

Unfortunately, the team was slipping. Dirk was still amazing.

[jochhejaam]

Lebron 31.5 pts 7.3 rebounds and 6.7 assists .478 fg%
23 shots per game

Kobe 34.8 pts 5.3 rebounds and 4.6 assists .446 fg%
27 shots per game

Jordan 32.5 pts 8.0 rebounds and 8.0 assists .538 fg%

This was in the '88-'89 season and was the only year that Jordan topped Lebron in all of the categories mentioned above. It was the only time in his entire career that he ever posted more than 6.9 rebounds or 6.3 assists numbers that Lebron has topped in only his 3rd season.

Lebron MVP

[NCaliSpurs]

Lebron's only 5 games or so behind Nash with a much less talented team.

Dirk is ahead of Nash with an equally talented team.

I don't understand why he is front-runner with so many other great players that are winning.

[Trainwreck2100]

No Piston or Spur will win because their team would handicap them. The only way that would happen would be for something like a 70 win season. I say it goes to Dirk, better record than Nash.

[timvp]

I'm hoping LeBron wins it but I doubt he will. Nash doesn't deserve two MVP awards on his resume. The Lakers suck too much for Kobe to be considered.

[Horry For 3!]

I'd like to see LeBron win it as well

[polandprzem]

I think nobody will get it.

[jochhejaam]

I'm hoping LeBron wins it but I doubt he will. Nash doesn't deserve two MVP awards on his resume. The Lakers suck too much for Kobe to be considered.
Nash was dominated by Billups in their two head to head matchups and he's at best an average defender so I agree.

[1Parker1]

Why does everyone seem to think that Lebron deserves it? I personally think he's a little too young and unproven. If you give it to him, then why not Wade?

[Obstructed_View]

Parker has one all star playing alongside him. Billups has three. Parker for MVP.

[1Parker1]

^:lol Kobe and Dirk have 0 All stars playing next to him....

[NCaliSpurs]

I'm hoping LeBron wins it but I doubt he will. Nash doesn't deserve two MVP awards on his resume. The Lakers suck too much for Kobe to be considered.

I started a thread on this a couple of weeks ago. Only the Nash supporters came out. But it is good to know there is one person with some sense around here.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37152

[ploto]

With the slipping of Dallas and Phoenix lately, I think Billups is the proper choice- the most important player on the team with the best record.

[ducks]

james will win the award but not this year
james is to young and unproven and mostly it is not his turn
the media takes turns who wins it!

[1Parker1]

If Lebron wins it, Ducks will be on suicide watch. :lol

No doubt Billups is the MVP of the Pistons, but you have to take into account that their starting 5 is arguably the best in the league. If Billups were on the Lakers or Suns...would he look as valuable as Kobe or Nash?

[1Parker1]

james will win the award but not this year
james is to young and unproven and mostly it is not his turn
the media takes turns who wins it!


:wow You admit James will win the award in the future??? What's happening to your hatred?!

[Pistons < Spurs]

George Karl was on best damn sports last night, and he said his vote for MVP was for Billups!

[Trainwreck2100]

George Karl was on best damn sports last night, and he said his vote for MVP was for Billups!

Yeah, but Karl is a moron

[JamStone]

If Lebron wins it, Ducks will be on suicide watch. :lol

No doubt Billups is the MVP of the Pistons, but you have to take into account that their starting 5 is arguably the best in the league. If Billups were on the Lakers or Suns...would he look as valuable as Kobe or Nash?



So was the Boston Celtics starting five when Larry Bird won his MVP. Magic had two allstar/superstar teammates.

Having great teammates should not and has not precluded players from winning the MVP. If Chauncey doesn't win it, it shouldn't be because of the teammates he has. It should be because someone is more deserving.

[JamStone]

Yeah, but Karl is a moron


George Karl has also said the Spurs are still the best team in the league.

What a moron!

[Trainwreck2100]

George Karl has also said the Spurs are still the best team in the league.

What a moron!


I don't care what the fuck he says, he's still a moron.

[Obstructed_View]

No doubt Billups is the MVP of the Pistons, but you have to take into account that their starting 5 is arguably the best in the league.
Funny that you laugh at my post, and then proceed to use my argument. :lol

[kobe_bryant]

1) Kobe
2) The Black Mamba
3) Nash

[JamStone]

If Lebron wins it, Ducks will be on suicide watch. :lol

No doubt Billups is the MVP of the Pistons, but you have to take into account that their starting 5 is arguably the best in the league. If Billups were on the Lakers or Suns...would he look as valuable as Kobe or Nash?


Agree with it or not, many people thought the Phoenix Suns had arguably the best starting 5 in the league last year, Nash had two all star teammates in Amare and Marion, and a borderline all-star in Joe Johnson.

And yet Steve nash won the MVP last year.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Agree with it or not, many people thought the Phoenix Suns had arguably the best starting 5 in the league last year, Nash had two all star teammates in Amare and Marion, and a borderline all-star in Joe Johnson.

And yet Steve nash won the MVP last year.


Nash won it because of the huge turnaround the Suns made.

The blathering about Nash making his teammates better is bullshit, or rather, statistically insignifigant IMO.

[mavsfan1000]

1. Dirk
2. Nash
3. Kobe
4. James
5. Wade

[DarkReign]

King James, bitches!

Single-handedly prevented a typical Cavalier collapse. Playing his best ball all season. Carrying that Cavs team into the playoffs. His stats are out of control.

I dont even think this is much of an argument anymore (to me).

[Trainwreck2100]

King James, bitches!

Single-handedly prevented a typical Cavalier collapse. Playing his best ball all season. Carrying that Cavs team into the playoffs. His stats are out of control.

I dont even think this is much of an argument anymore (to me).


Maybe that would work, cept in the last two years the Cavs collapsed because he did.

[jochhejaam]

Maybe that would work, cept in the last two years the Cavs collapsed because he did.
He was 18 when he began his rookie year and 19 at the end of the year. No one should expect someone that age to "carry" a team. Same with his second year at 19-20.

It's amazing that a 21 year old has the abilities that he does and he is carrying them this year...did I mention he's doing that at the age of 21?

(yep, guess I did :lol )

[jochhejaam]

1. Dirk
2. Nash
3. Kobe
4. James
5. Wade
1. Lebron
2. Chauncey
3. Kobe
4. Wade
5. Nash

12. Dirk

[Trainwreck2100]

His age shouldn't be a factor in MVP voting, it doesn't make sense to give it to Lebron for not folding this year, because he was the one making those mistakes. Melo came into the league and got his team to the POs at the age of 20

[Pistons < Spurs]

There is no way I could give LBJ the MVP. How many times this year has he had the opportunity to truly be an MVP, only to pass the ball or miss his shot when it really counted? Those are MVP moments. Much like KG not wanting the ball when it matters, so too w/ LBJ. Only once this year has he had a MVP moment that won a game for the team. How many times have you seen MVP performances from Kobe,Billups,Dirk or Wade to win a game?

I love Lebrons game. IMO he along w/ Kobe are the 2 best players in the game. But that does not make him an MVP.

'Bron has shown me too many times this year that he is NOT the MVP.

He doesn't even rank in my top 5.

IMO:

Nash
Chauncey
Kobe
Dirk
Wade

[dieman8686]

Is Dirk's MVP run over, just for a bad month for the team? Even thought he averaged his best avg for points and rebounds 30-10.2 for the month? Since when is MVP based on a couple of weeks or a month?
1.Dirk
2.Nash.
3.Billups

Now for those who have Kobe on their top 3 now thats laughable...

[1Parker1]

Funny that you laugh at my post, and then proceed to use my argument. :lol

Shhhhhhhhh!!!

I know, when I read your post I was all against it. Then I thought about it some more and all the Pistons fans in this thread loving Billups made we want to reconsider. :lmao

[mavsfan1000]

:lol dirk's mvp chances are over buddy.

its between nash, james, kobe
Dirk's chances are over why Kobe and James continue to lose game all year round? Makes no sense. Actually Dirk has had his best month stat wise. Of course Dirk haters wouldn't see that.

[melo061]

Dirk's chances are over why Kobe and James continue to lose game all year round? Makes no sense. Actually Dirk has had his best month stat wise. Of course Dirk haters wouldn't see that.

Dirk nowitzki has no use in the mvp race. He has not carried a CBS team on his back, he's stats are not mind blowing either.

Lebron is leading a Bi polar, 2 guys who can't shoot and a bunch of other scurbs who've forgotten how to play basketball into the playoffs. He's putting up stats that Dirk dreams about.

MVP

Kobe bryant is leading a team with Mr inconsistent, an and 1 streeballer, a misfit and a bunch of other journeyman into the playoffs and probably 6th seed. He's also putting up stats we have not seen since Mj.

MVP

Dirk is not doing what they are doing and is not as valuable as the two above. His teamates are much better than the two above and that is part of the reason why they have the record. Lebron and Kobe would dream to have players that surround Dirk.

MVP- NOT

If you're actually going to argue that he is as valuable then those guys then Sir you are the biggest homer on the internet.

[mavsfan1000]

You are the biggest Dirk hater on the internet. Dirk is greater than Kobe because he is more well rounded. Better passer, better rebounder, and more efficient shooter but I guess you will make the argument that Kobe scores 35 ppg on a bad team you admit. Nothing like making a poor team fucking average. Odom is no piece of shit either. In this last month Dirk has averaged 30 and 10 so when needed he can put up big points at a more efficient pace than Kobe. Dirk's defense is also underrated. He has greatly improved that area of his game. Too bad Terry can't play any defense. Terry and Stackhouse are the reason for Dallas's struggles on defense.

[melo061]

I am not the biggest dirk hater. Dirk's defense is trash, it may have gotten better but it's still trash. Secondly Dirk is not the better passer than kobe, let's see Dirk iniate a offense for a whole season and average 6 assits. Point muted.

In the last month Lebron put up 33-8-7 and guarenteed the cavs a playoff position for the first time since 98. Those stats are near triple double, something that Dirk has no idea what it is. His carried the cavs with guys like Marshall and jones who brick open shots and to top it off, Larry hughes was injured. Lebron has stepped up his game in every possible way this month, including in the clutch

I would love to See Dirk score "efficiently" with the kind of defenses kobe attracts ever y game. And don't tell me he would pass it off, to who? Sasha the brick european? Smush who bricks shots also? Kobe's carrying a team which was expected to be one of the worst in the league, to the playoffs. He's upped his game and is doing something we haven't seen.

Dirk's leading a team which i might add, none of them are allstars. However he has much more talent and the team is much more solid than the cavs and lakers. He does not carry the team on his back like the two above do, night in night out.

MVP-Not.

edit: I don't particularly like Lebron but any person who's sane can see he is much more valuable than Dirk nowtizki.

[mavsfan1000]

Well I underate Lebron's ability as do many others but Lebron has not shown the leadership at the end of games to take over. He doesn't make his players better despite the stats. Both Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall are known to be high percentage shooters. Dirk's defense is not trash and stats would show that not many forwards have gone off on Dirk. Dirk guards the pick and roll well which is key. As long as Dirk doesn't have to play center he is alright on defense. Also if Dirk was double teamed he passes over the defenders since he has a height advantage. I don't see how 30 and 10 is not mvp numbers. Kobe only wished to have a month where he averaged 10 rebounds. If Kobe was double teamed how come he can't find the open player? Size makes a difference.

[melo061]

He's been doing this month for one month. Kobe in February averaged a wicked 43-5-4 on 47% shooting. I don't see how those numbers are not mvp numbers [using you're logics]. Consider the fact that march was horrible for the mavs [9-8 i believe] and i know they had injuries but it compensates for the horrible teamates that kobe has.

Secondly Kobe's not 7 foot like Dirk nowtizki, and yet Dirk for his height isn't even in double digits interms of rebounding. Kobe in october of 2002-2003 averaged double digits in rebounding and kobe's a 6-6 shooting guard :lol

Thirdly do you use logic when posting? An assist can only occur when the other player scoers. How many times has Marshall and Damon jones bricked open 3's. Is it lebron's fault that he can't make them better and make them hit those open 3's? Is it kobe's fault that somehow Smush parker and sasha brick open shots? If Dirk was passing to them would they score? Logic please.

[mavsfan1000]

Well passing has something to do with how well the pass is thrown. Dirk is a good passer if you watch. I don't see Kobe getting players a lot of open shots since he struggles with court vision. I believe Kobe last year led the league in turnovers so him passing is a bad thing considering it leads to turnovers. The regular season starts in November or as early or late October for some so I guess 1 game Kobe had double digits. :lol Smush Parker is no Terry from outside but I'm sure he could hit his fair share of 3's. Dirk could find Odom slashing to the basket if doubled. Lebron tends to get fancy with passes and I feel make it hard to hit 3's with long passes that Lebron does on a regular basis to the corner.

[melo061]

That kobe double digit rebounding was preseason stats i believe.

Secondly how good would dirk do iniating an offense? especially a compeletly new offense? Kobe still managed before the allstar game to average 7 assits per game. It only declined when Rudy left and Hamblen went out.

Thirdly have you not seen how many good looks smush gets? Do you even know why he gets those open shots? It;s because of Kobe and Odom. And yet he bricks some open ones. Sasha who's supposdedly the best shooter on the lakers bricks open looks.

And this is all you assuming stuff, the truth is that Kobe iniated an offense for the 3 peat and last season. Dirk hasn't, therefore in regards to passing Dirk is not in the league of Kobe.

You fail to explain why Dirk is more valuable than Lebron and Kobe. I really want to see how homerish you really are.

[mavsfan1000]

The stats don't prove your point. You are assuming that Kobe initiating means Kobe creating. Kobe's 3 peat was with the most dominant player ever which is Shaq. It would be scary if Dirk had Shaq. The inside-out game would be unstoppable. Dirk shooting 43% from 3's is only something Kobe would dream about. Kobe has never been close to that though he can hit almost as good on fg's and ft's. The fact is Dirk is a very efficient shooter while at the exact time able to carry a team if needed though you disagree.

[melo061]

Wtf? What are you mumbling about? If kobe's iniating, he is creating? That was his purpose in the 3 peat. What else would he be doing? Taking 27 shots and ignoring his teamates? He didn't do that with teamates who could actually hit shots [ala like what lebron does, drives and passes to open teamate for the win]

He didn't start shooting alot until 2003 when Shaq got injured.

Secondly yes, Dirk is efficent. He's the 3rd most efficent player in the league with kobe being 4th. However Dirk does no carry his team on his back to the extent that lebron and kobe Do. Stats prove that.

Thank you, i think this discussion is over. I think i've shown why Lebron and kobe are more valuable and all you come out with is assumptions.

edit: Dirk only takes 3 3 point shots in a game compared to 6 by kobe. Who do you think is going to shoot better? Ray allen is shooting a worse percentage than dirk, does that mean dirk is a better 3 point shot? Remind me when Dirk can consistently hit a turnaround jumper like kobe can. Remind me when Dirk can hit a fadeaway 3. Remind me when Dirk plays defense.

Remind me? There never going to happen. No point in asking.

[mavsfan1000]

Since Kobe takes tougher shots that makes him better? Isn't it more important to have good shot selection? Ray Allen btw lost to Dirk in the 3 point contest. :lol Dirk maybe doesn't carry the team to the extent as Lebron or Kobe to because he doesn't have to but his teams record is clearly better than Kobe's or Lebron's. I think that it is more important to have a good recored if the stats are close. San Antonio has 2 players, Detroit has 2 players, and Dallas has 1 player. Therefore Dirk has the stats and the record to get the MVP.

[1Parker1]

Dirk maybe doesn't carry the team to the extent as Lebron or Kobe to because he doesn't have to

Um, I think that was his point. That Dirk has a better supporting cast, therefore his team has the better record and his stats are obviously better. How can you say Dallas only has "1 player" whatever that means and therefore has the stats and record for MVP?? :wtf

Obviously Kobe is the better, more natural athlete and obviously Dirk is going to get more rebounds etc. since he is a 7 foot forward/center.

[mavsfan1000]

Um, I think that was his point. That Dirk has a better supporting cast, therefore his team has the better record and his stats are obviously better. How can you say Dallas only has "1 player" whatever that means and therefore has the stats and record for MVP?? :wtf

Obviously Kobe is the better, more natural athlete and obviously Dirk is going to get more rebounds etc. since he is a 7 foot forward/center.
For whatever athletic advantage Kobe has is neutralized by Dirk's size advantage. The whole point is Kobe scores more points on a average team and Dirk's stats are close and he is on a team in pace of 60 wins. I said 1 player because there is no one else on the team near MVP status and no other all-stars either unlike Nash. There could be an argument that Lebron is better than Kobe also but I don't want to get into that.

[v2000]

For whatever athletic advantage Kobe has is neutralized by Dirk's size advantage. The whole point is Kobe scores more points on a average team and Dirk's stats are close and he is on a team in pace of 60 wins. I said 1 player because there is no one else on the team near MVP status and no other all-stars either unlike Nash. There could be an argument that Lebron is better than Kobe also but I don't want to get into that.
the fact is, you have to have wins to get MVP. The Lakers have been very average this year, and the Cavs have been pretty good, but don't forget that they are in the Eastern Conference, which is CLEARLY weaker than the West. Like I said before... it's between Nash and Dirk, maybe Lebron. Billups has the luxury of the best starting lineup in the NBA. Wade has the luxury of Shaq in the middle. Whomever says Parker is a moron. Parker isnt the MVP, or even the second best player on his own team.

It will be either Dirk or Nash... no question about it. If somehow the Mavs are able to pull off getting the first seed (which is EXTEREMELY unlikely), then Dirk should get it without question. If they lose to the Spurs on friday though, I don't think he will get it. A lot for the Mavs depends on this game Friday, ESPECIALLY if the Spurs lose tonight, which I won't be suprized if they do.

[dieman8686]

Um, I think that was his point. That Dirk has a better supporting cast, therefore his team has the better record and his stats are obviously better. How can you say Dallas only has "1 player" whatever that means and therefore has the stats and record for MVP?? :wtf

Obviously Kobe is the better, more natural athlete and obviously Dirk is going to get more rebounds etc. since he is a 7 foot forward/center.
Kobe of course is a better then Dirk...but he doesn't deserve MVP rights for that...When you talk about putting someones team on his back it means more like a clutch player to help win games and not one team that sucks with one great player in it who does all the work...


So I guess that Nash, GArnet, and Timmy did all the work for their teams, and thats why they won MVP?

An MVP makes his supporting cast better and takes less pressure off them. For example thats why Nash won MVP last year. No, he wasn't the best player(not even in his team...), but he made his cast a whole lot better. I'm not saying Dirk is Nash, but when the Mavericks need a shot, he can give it to them.
Plus MVP is depicted on a teams record too, yall trying to say that an7-8 seeded team's one man team is going to take it away from one of the top 4 seeds on either the west or eastern confrence?

Pistons<Spurs pretty much Sums it up for me too

There is no way I could give LBJ the MVP. How many times this year has he had the opportunity to truly be an MVP, only to pass the ball or miss his shot when it really counted? Those are MVP moments. Much like KG not wanting the ball when it matters, so too w/ LBJ. Only once this year has he had a MVP moment that won a game for the team. How many times have you seen MVP performances from Kobe,Billups,Dirk or Wade to win a game?
Even though he mentions Kobe in the last part about clutch plays to win the games, it kind of cancels out with what the records team is...

[dieman8686]

the fact is, you have to have wins to get MVP. The Lakers have been very average this year, and the Cavs have been pretty good, but don't forget that they are in the Eastern Conference, which is CLEARLY weaker than the West. Like I said before... it's between Nash and Dirk, maybe Lebron. Billups has the luxury of the best starting lineup in the NBA. Wade has the luxury of Shaq in the middle. Whomever says Parker is a moron. Parker isnt the MVP, or even the second best player on his own team.

It will be either Dirk or Nash... no question about it. If somehow the Mavs are able to pull off getting the first seed (which is EXTEREMELY unlikely), then Dirk should get it without question. If they lose to the Spurs on friday though, I don't think he will get it. A lot for the Mavs depends on this game Friday, ESPECIALLY if the Spurs lose tonight, which I won't be suprized if they do.
Totally agree. :drunk

[baseline bum]

Nash was dominated by Billups in their two head to head matchups and he's at best an average defender so I agree.

Nash is at best one of the 10 worst defensive players I've ever seen since I began watching the NBA in 1985.

[ducks]

:wow You admit James will win the award in the future??? What's happening to your hatred?!


stern will make the media give him the mvp award
he has to single out a young player and since he has already run james name down everyone's throat he has to stick with him or waste millions

[baseline bum]

James does not deserve the MVP this season... he's not even close. Early in the season I was really impressed by him, but he passes too much in crunch situations and has let too many teams come back on him while he did nothing. I'm starting to believe Carmello Anthony is the stud of that draft class, because he's unstoppable in close games and pressure situations.

[1Parker1]

I'm not sold with Dirk at all...I'd think Billups is more of an MVP more than him.

We shall see who wins it in a few months. I'm going with either Kobe or Billups.

[v2000]

Nash is at best one of the 10 worst defensive players I've ever seen since I began watching the NBA in 1985.
That is what annoyed the hell out of me when he was with Dallas, and why I was actually glad he was gone. Most people said Dallas wouldnt be good without him, but they actually got better.

[melo061]

People's clutch definitioms are too stingy. When lebron attracts double teams and passes it open for Murray for the win, that is clutch. He plays smart basketball and he doesn't have that mentality that all my shots are going in [ala MJ].

edit: I'm a carmelo fan here, but Carmelo is not better than lebron. I'm telling you here. Lebron does other stuff besides scoring, he helps on the boards, assits. Carmelo is a stud in the 4th but that doesn't make him better. That only means he's better than lebron in the 4th [ not even, carmelo goes crazy with 10 seconds left]. The thing that had carmelo in advtange has no be rescinded, with lebron leading his team to the playoffs.

Lebron has the advtange in the first 47 minutes and carmelo last minute? Who's better? You think about it.

[baseline bum]

I've seen James play incredibly passive with the game on the line many times. Carmello has the killer instinct that James has never shown. LeBron's way more talented, but Carmello wills his team to wins against a much tougher schedule in a way LeBron never has. Being unselfish is a double-edged sword for James... but he's starting to look a lot like KG... best player in the game through three quarters, and then nowhere to be found when winning time rolls around.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I've seen James play incredibly passive with the game on the line many times. Carmello has the killer instinct that James has never shown. LeBron's way more talented, but Carmello wills his team to wins against a much tougher schedule in a way LeBron never has. Being unselfish is a double-edged sword for James... but he's starting to look a lot like KG... best player in the game through three quarters, and then nowhere to be found when winning time rolls around.


He's learning how to close out games. He pretty much did everything in the last 5 minutes of the Miami game...

You could make a case for 4-5 guys to win the MVP. As long as it isn't Nash, I'm cool with it..

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe that would work, cept in the last two years the Cavs collapsed because he did.
Bull. Fucking. Shit. His team quit on him, and he lacked the experience and the leadership to kick them in the dingding and get them going again. That's part of being MVP, but he never quit playing the last two years. He's still not a good leader; last night he got a beautiful alley-oop pass from a teammate and stood there posing after the dunk instead of crediting the dude that made the pass.

[Obstructed_View]

James does not deserve the MVP this season... he's not even close. Early in the season I was really impressed by him, but he passes too much in crunch situations and has let too many teams come back on him while he did nothing. I'm starting to believe Carmello Anthony is the stud of that draft class, because he's unstoppable in close games and pressure situations.
I agree with the first part. James has gotten better at taking responsibility because he caught so much heat for it.

As for the second part, James is twice the player 'melo is and Wade is the stud of that class under pressure.

[Marklar MM]

^Wade is definitely the best player out of that class^

[ABDENOUR POWER]

I'm starting to believe Carmello Anthony is the stud of that draft class, because he's unstoppable in close games and pressure situations.

What about Dwyane Wade? That guy is unbelievably clutch. I might be wrong on this (I'm too lazy to do any real research) but I believe Wade scored his team's final 17 pts in the game where Miami beat Detroit. He is lights out in crunch time.

[Darrin]

My ballot has not changed since December:

1. Kobe Bryant - His game is well-rounded, and although it would be unprecedented because the best teams usually have the MVP on their roster, his numbers do justify the belief he's the best offensive player in the NBA.

2. Chauncey Billups - Forget the player - I tell you the 3rd pick in the draft will have a career year of 19, 9, and 4 for the best team in the NBA after already winning the Finals MVP. He'll hit all the big shots for a team that is poised for its 4th consecutive Conference Finals, and 3rd straight NBA Finals Appearance while having the best regular season in a 49-year-old franchise. Does that not sound like a legitimate MVP candidate? Then stop looking for the flash and remembering that he was traded 4 times, playing for 6 different teams. He is having a career-year and the Pistons have been the best team in the league that season. Tim Duncan in 2003, Shaquille O'Neal in 2000, Michael Jordan in 1996, and Larry Bird in 1986 - Billups is the best player on the best team, and that usually equals MVP.

3. Steve Nash - He's the best passer and penetrator in the game, but he's a manador on defense, and as brilliant as he's been, it wasn't worthy of being mentioned as a two-time MVP when Shaquille O'Neal hasn't even done that.

4. Elton Brand - There's a difference between the best player on the team and a great player in the league and being the difference between winning and losing. The best player can be in place and the team still lose. Brand is the lesson on that this season.

5. Dirk Nowitzki - An outside candidate who has put together his best season, but has fallen out of favor because of his disappearance down the stretch of the season.

December 16, 2005 - That's when I originally wrote up this list (albeit without the comments).

Wade and Shaq are 6 and 7.

[Darrin]

What about Dwyane Wade? That guy is unbelievably clutch. I might be wrong on this (I'm too lazy to do any real research) but I believe Wade scored his team's final 17 pts in the game where Miami beat Detroit. He is lights out in crunch time.


That's true. My favorite young guards in the league today are Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul. Both are unbelieveable. The first time I saw Wade hit a game-winner was in game one of that 2004 Hornets-Heat series. He drove down the lane, and through up a floater.

No one, not even Lebron or AI, scares me more with the ball in his hands when he's hot. Maybe Kobe.

[1Parker1]

My ballot has not changed since December:

1. Kobe Bryant - His game is well-rounded, and although it would be unprecedented because the best teams usually have the MVP on their roster, his numbers do justify the belief he's the best offensive player in the NBA.

2. Chauncey Billups - Forget the player - I tell you the 3rd pick in the draft will have a career year of 19, 9, and 4 for the best team in the NBA after already winning the Finals MVP. He'll hit all the big shots for a team that is poised for its 4th consecutive Conference Finals, and 3rd straight NBA Finals Appearance while having the best regular season in a 49-year-old franchise. Does that not sound like a legitimate MVP candidate? Then stop looking for the flash and remembering that he was traded 4 times, playing for 6 different teams. He is having a career-year and the Pistons have been the best team in the league that season. Tim Duncan in 2003, Shaquille O'Neal in 2000, Michael Jordan in 1996, and Larry Bird in 1986 - Billups is the best player on the best team, and that usually equals MVP.

3. Steve Nash - He's the best passer and penetrator in the game, but he's a manador on defense, and as brilliant as he's been, it wasn't worthy of being mentioned as a two-time MVP when Shaquille O'Neal hasn't even done that.

4. Elton Brand - There's a difference between the best player on the team and a great player in the league and being the difference between winning and losing. The best player can be in place and the team still lose. Brand is the lesson on that this season.

5. Dirk Nowitzki - An outside candidate who has put together his best season, but has fallen out of favor because of his disappearance down the stretch of the season.

December 16, 2005 - That's when I originally wrote up this list (albeit without the comments).

Wade and Shaq are 6 and 7.

:tu Completely agree with that list. Except I'd probably put Lebron and Wade at 6 and 7.

[pking]

I just don't think that you guys watch Mavs games judging on how you say Dirk has disappeared at the end of this season. :lol

Not that I'm saying he deserves the MVP (I think he does, but that's beside the point) but Dirk has stepped up late. He played much better in March than any other time in the season. 30 points and just over 10 boards for the month. I think you assume Dirk hasn't played well because the Mavs lost quite a bit in March. The Mavs were also out 4 of their top 8 guys, obviously things aren't as easy in that situation. Dirk's been phenomenal though.

[v2000]

I just don't think that you guys watch Mavs games judging on how you say Dirk has disappeared at the end of this season. :lol

Not that I'm saying he deserves the MVP (I think he does, but that's beside the point) but Dirk has stepped up late. He played much better in March than any other time in the season. 30 points and just over 10 boards for the month. I think you assume Dirk hasn't played well because the Mavs lost quite a bit in March. The Mavs were also out 4 of their top 8 guys, obviously things aren't as easy in that situation. Dirk's been phenomenal though.
agreed. some of these people are simply ignorant to say that Dirk has fallen off, and that he isnt a top MVP candidate.

[JamStone]

Dirk is definitely a top MVP candidate. I don't think he's the frontrunner, but I certainly think he's a top 5 candidate. It doesn't help that Dallas has lost a few games recently, but Dirk has still been playing well and putting up great numbers. The only two really subpar games (subpar for him anyway) last month were against San Antonio and Detroit, two of the better if not best defensive teams in the league. And, he still put up decent numbers.

Dirk deserves every bit of consideration he's getting. It might not be enough to win the award, but he's a top 5 candidate easily.

[Trainwreck2100]

A loss to the Knicks should automatically disqualify you as an MVP candidate

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

A loss to the Knicks should automatically disqualify you as an MVP candidate


That takes Chauncey, Dirk, Lebron and Nash off the list...

[Banks91]

A loss to the Knicks should automatically disqualify you as an MVP candidate

Dude, i don't really follow your posts, so i don't know whether you're serious or not. But if you are, i don't know how anyone can take you serious here.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i see dirk gettin it, i dont care if his rebs n ass are down this season, his backin that shit up with his team record....

[mavsfan1000]

My ballot has not changed since December:

1. Kobe Bryant - His game is well-rounded, and although it would be unprecedented because the best teams usually have the MVP on their roster, his numbers do justify the belief he's the best offensive player in the NBA.

2. Chauncey Billups - Forget the player - I tell you the 3rd pick in the draft will have a career year of 19, 9, and 4 for the best team in the NBA after already winning the Finals MVP. He'll hit all the big shots for a team that is poised for its 4th consecutive Conference Finals, and 3rd straight NBA Finals Appearance while having the best regular season in a 49-year-old franchise. Does that not sound like a legitimate MVP candidate? Then stop looking for the flash and remembering that he was traded 4 times, playing for 6 different teams. He is having a career-year and the Pistons have been the best team in the league that season. Tim Duncan in 2003, Shaquille O'Neal in 2000, Michael Jordan in 1996, and Larry Bird in 1986 - Billups is the best player on the best team, and that usually equals MVP.

3. Steve Nash - He's the best passer and penetrator in the game, but he's a manador on defense, and as brilliant as he's been, it wasn't worthy of being mentioned as a two-time MVP when Shaquille O'Neal hasn't even done that.

4. Elton Brand - There's a difference between the best player on the team and a great player in the league and being the difference between winning and losing. The best player can be in place and the team still lose. Brand is the lesson on that this season.

5. Dirk Nowitzki - An outside candidate who has put together his best season, but has fallen out of favor because of his disappearance down the stretch of the season.

December 16, 2005 - That's when I originally wrote up this list (albeit without the comments).

Wade and Shaq are 6 and 7.

You are very uninformed if you think that Dirk is disappearing down the stretch. Dirk was awesome in March but the rest of the team dropped off considerably due to the injuries.

[JamStone]

You are very uninformed if you think that Dirk is disappearing down the stretch. Dirk was awesome in March but the rest of the team dropped off considerably due to the injuries.


You have to admit that Dirk had poor games in March against Detroit (9-23 FG, 4 TO) and San Antonio (6-15 FG, 1-5 3PT), two very important games not only record-wise, but for the psyche of the Dallas Mavericks team as a whole. And, Dirk was outplayed in both those games by other MVP candidates, Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups. Not only that, but Dirk was locked up in fourth quarters of that Spurs game and two others by Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, and Richard Jefferson ... all great defenders, but all considerably smaller than Dirk. Not very MVPish.

So, if in the two biggest games late in the season against the two teams with the best records in the league, Dirk does not play well, wouldn't that
be an indication that Dirk has lost some points with respect to the MVP race?

I still feel Dirk is in the MVP conversation. But, you can't just look at his numbers and say he hasn't slipped at all. Look at his performances against the top teams that actually play defense. Look at him being shut down by smaller wing players. Look at the Mavericks' March record of 9-8. Those all contribute to some tarnishing of the "MVP" rep he built through most of the season, despite still putting up very good numbers as a whole. You can't just look at stats, otherwise LeBron James would easily beat out every other player in the NBA for the League MVP.

[mavsfan1000]

You pick 2 random games to deter Dirk's chances for MVP? I would be interested in seeing how Nash, Kobe, and Lebron do against the best defenders at their position.

[Darrin]

You are very uninformed if you think that Dirk is disappearing down the stretch. Dirk was awesome in March but the rest of the team dropped off considerably due to the injuries.

Yeah, perhaps that was a cheap shot. I watched two games and thought I knew it all. I guess I can start working for ESPN. :)

[JamStone]

Not 2 random games. 2 games against the 2 best teams in the league. 2 all-important games in the race for the best record in the league. 2 MARCH games, when all the games are starting to matter in terms of playoff positioning and making a statement. Those are NOT 2 random games.

And, the thing is Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, and Richard Jeffesron are not the best defender's at DIRK'S POSITION. Dirk is a 7-foot perimeter power forward. All of those defenders are 6-7 small forwards. We're not talking about Kevin Garnett locking down Dirk. We're talking about guys who are used to playing mostly perimeter defense on guys about the same size. Dirk had the height advantage, the length advantage. That's why it's hard to understand why he would get locked up by those three in the FOURTH QUARTER when the game is on the line.

And, Steve Nash struggled against the Pistons in the second meeting. He played very well in the first meeting, but the Suns lost both games. I don't know how well he's played against San Antonio.

Kobe has lit up Ron Artest this year.

LeBron has lit up almost everybody this year. He may have had problems with Artest, but they're the same size. Dirk is better. Get the difference?

Plus, if you want to claim that Dirk has more MVP credibility because of his team's record, then you have to respond to the fact that Dallas was 9-8 in March and why you don't think that Dirk hasn't slipped in the MVP race.

[LEONARD]

Dirk lit up Artest on Tuesday... :smokin

We'll see about a new gameplan on Bowen tomorrow...

[mavsfan1000]

Bowen has incredible reaction time and Artest doesn't. Bowen is relentless and I could see why that bothers Dirk as well as everyone else in the league. As for the Pistons game Dirk should've done better. Rasheed isn't a bad defender but definitely one Dirk should have a speed advantage over. Ben Wallace guarded Dirk well though. The mavs were very depleted and they were on the road. We'll see about the MVP race but those 2 games shouldn't decide the MVP considering most teams struggle against those 2 teams.

[JamStone]

I didn't say those two games should "DECIDE" the MVP race. The direction of the discussion was that Dirk had slipped in the MVP race recently. He's absolutely still in the race. I don't go so far as to saying he's dropped out of the MVP race. But, if you can't see that he lost some of MVP luster, then you're not being objective enough.

The Mavs went 9-8 in the month of March. That HAS to be taken into consdieration, despite the injuries to the Mavericks team. Steve Nash is starting to wear down and the Suns are losing more games, and that's going to hurt his chances. Same thing for Dirk. Most of his stats were still great throughout March. But, against San Antonio and Detroit, and against defenders like Richard Jefferson and Ron Artest (not last Tuesday's game obviously, but the previous meeting) should tell you that Dirk is not the frontrunner for the MVP.

In fact, a lot of the MVP leading candidates have had some rough games recently ... Dirk, Nash, LeBron last night through most of the game and then the last play of the game. But, all three are still top contenders for the award.

And, as for struggling against Detroit and San Antonio, you're right. Most teams and most players struggle against their defenses. But, it's interesting to note that Kobe Bryant has lit up both those teams, and rather easily.

[mavsfan1000]

Well Kobe Bryant is probably the most talented individual player but his team has struggled all year. Does he get a pass for a average team and Dirk doesn't for 1 month of his team struggling? Dirk's team talent in the month of march is similar to Kobe if you take out Howard, Harris, and Griffin. Maybe slightly better but the schedule got much tougher. Also having 2 cba players (Powell and Marshall) including one starting didn't help.

[JamStone]

After the way the Mavs started the season, you hold a higher standard for Dallas. The Lakers were mediocre team all season long. That doesn't change for just one month, just as it doesn't change for Dirk for just won month that his team has been one of the top 5 teams all season long.

And ...

Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Marquis Daniels, Erick Dampier, Darrell Armstrong, Rawle Marshall, Josh Powell, and DeSagana Diop

is not just a little better than

Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Brian Cook, Smush Parker, Devean George, Sasha Vujacic, and Luke Walton


The Mavs without Howard, Harris, and Griffin are still miles ahead of the Lakers supporting cast, and you can't even be serious if you argue otherwise. Smush Parker has started for the Lakers all year long, and you want to mention Rawle Marshall and Josh Powell?

And, you're right about the fact Kobe shouldn't get a pass for his struggling team all year. He should not win the MVP either. I personally think he's up there and I'd vote for him myself, but I agree that because of his team's record, he shouldn't get it. And, thereby hurting your argument to give Dirk a pass for the month of March.

March is much more significant anyway. And, the Lakers went 10-7, including wins over Detroit and San Antonio. Kobe averaged 34 points in March himself.

Dirk is still a top candidate for MVP. I've just been saying he hasn't helped himself over the last month or so. Last year we saw that a team winning trumps all other stats with respect to the MVP race when Steve Nash won the MVP. Nash wasn't even one of the top 3 scorers on his team.

LeBron has better overall stats than any other player in the league. And, his team just reeled off 9 wins in a row recently. Dirk is putting up great numbers and has lost to teams like Cleveland and Orlando recently.

Sooner or later, no matter how much you love Dirk Nowitzki, you have to realize and admit that he is not an MVP favorite. I would still put him in the top 5. But, I still like Nash, LeBron, or Kobe ahead of him. And, in my own homer glasses, I see Chauncey Billups making some headway into the conversation because those other four have had some struggles recently when the games mean the most, and recently Chauncey has outplayed both Dirk and Nash in head-to-head meetings with Detroit against both Phoenix and Dallas.

[mavsfan1000]

I guess team records don't matter if Kobe and Lebron are ahead of Dirk. The records are not even close and Lebron got some players this offseason. Hughes, Marshall, and Damon Jones. They help spread the floor out so I wasn't surprised Lebron had such a good offensive season this year. Kobe Bryant has done great with less but that doesn't mean if you put him on the mavs instead of Dirk he'll do better or the same with the suns in place of Nash. Chemistry should matter also. Nash and Dirk seem to have the best chemistry with their team while Kobe and Lebron have the best individual stats.

[JamStone]

You do realize Larry Hughes missed 45 games this season, right? If Josh Howard misses 45 games this season, do you think the Mavs would have the record they have? We've already seen what Josh Howard missing 20 or so games has done to the Mavs over the last few weeks. Larry Hughes missed about 20 more games than Josh Howard and the Mavs have 11 more wins than the Cavs. You do the math.

I didn't say team records don't matter. The absolutely do. In fact, I think they matter very much. I think LeBron's overall statistics are just that impressive that it overrides the team record. And, the Cavs still have a pretty good record, at any rate.

As for Kobe, it is definitely a subjective opinion, but I think without Kobe, that Lakers team would have a similar record as the Knicks, if not worse. That's how valuable I think Kobe is to his team. Again, if you take things like that into consideration, you make your own decision as to who is deserving.

We can flip flop all you want. But, you want to credit Dirk with MVP consideration because of Dallas' record, but then you blow off the fact that Dallas was 9-8 in essentially the most important month of the NBA regular season. You want to talk about team records and say nothing of Chauncey Billups and Tony Parker.

So, you would go back to the argument that Dirk has better stats than Chauncey and Parker or that they have better teammates. Well, I guess you want the best of both worlds, and that's a fair assessment, to a certain degree. We all have to weigh what is most important, team success, individual success, and intangibles.

You want to talk about the chemistry that Nash and Dirk have with their team, and then you conveniently disregard Chauncey Billups in the conversation.

Also, Dirk has been very, very impressive this season. But, while he is shooting better and scoring more, you do realize that he's had significant drop-offs in his rebounding, blocked shots, and steals, right? In fact pretty significant drop-offs in the steals and blocked shots categories. Generally, MVP candidates are putting up career highs or close to career highs in most statistical categories.


We all know you love Dirk. We all know you think he's the best thing in Dallas since Emmitt Smith. Just temper your biased love a little bit. Dirk is a top 5 MVP candidate. He has a chance to win it. But, I don't think he will or he should. I think there are more valuable players in the league than him.

[1Parker1]

Alright damn, I'm changing my vote yet again:

Now it's down to Dirk or Lebron. I'm thinking Dirk may get it. :angel

[jochhejaam]

Here's a Dirkless list by Ric Bucher

Let's see your valuables, sir
By Ric Bucher
ESPN The Magazine

Anybody else sick of the MVP race already? I haven't even filled out my ballot and I don't want to read, hear or say another word on the subject. Of course, being the kind of guy who finds certain kinds of self-inflicted pain interesting, I volunteered to write a column on the subject.
This year, it seems, the MVP conversation began two weeks into the season and has never let up. Remember when Elton Brand was a frontrunner back in December? Didn't even Andrei Kirilenko get a mention after the Jazz bolted to that 4-2 start? Or was that his wife after ESPN The Magazine revealed her once-a-year-freebie for Andrei?

My point being: All the fuss about who is deserving and who isn't and what makes for an MVP and what doesn't is akin to debating what length of skirt turns a girl from sexy to a slut. No one's ever defined it and know one ever will. You eyeball the evidence and decide based on your personal tastes.

From all the conversations I've had on the MVP subject -- and, trust me, I've had five for every comment I've made on air or online -- MVP has a variety of meanings. For some, it's MEP, or the league's Most Excellent Player. For others, it's MVPOAWT, or Most Valuable Player on a Winning Team. Here's a popular one: MSIPOATTWBTE or Most Statistically Impressive Player on a Team That Was Better Than Expected. Generally, the easiest and safest pick is MVPOTBT: Most Valuable Player on the Best Team. This year has brought a new one to the mix: MDPDTSOATTFS, or Most Dominant Player Down the Stretch on a Team that Finished Strong. And, finally, there's MIP, or Most Indispensable Player, as in the guy whose team would absolutely fall apart without him.

If there's a reason to be particularly fed up with all the Let-me-tell-you-who-the-MVP chatter is this season, other than it's been going on all season and continues to mutate, that's precisely it. Without first defining MVP, and acknowledging that it's your definition and not necessarily anyone else's, it's like raging at your friends for not agreeing with your choice of Air Jordans.

So, for what it's worth, here are my choices for all above. And, yes, here's the disclaimer: these are my definitions. Acronymites, feel free to create your own, order your own hardware and have your own happy little award ceremony. The guy who eventually wins the real deal will not feel slighted, I promise you.

MEP --Kobe Bryant.

MVPOAWT -- Dwyane Wade.

MSIPOATTWBTE -- Elton Brand.

MVPOTBT -- Chauncey Billups.

MDPDTSOATTFS -- LeBron James.

MIP -- Steve Nash.

Of course, I may just ask my three-year-old daughter Chance to draw five stick figures -- she just learned how -- and make my selections based on which NBA players they most resemble. The problem with that is, having seen her work, I might have to explain to the league office how Stromile Swift and Francisco Elson made my ballot.

And when it comes to self-inflicted pain, you have to draw the line somewhere.

[2centsworth]

Lebron!!!!!!!!!!

[Darrin]

Lebron!!!!!!!!!!

That was a great game last night!

I'm sticking with Kobe.

[v2000]

Dirk with another game winner last night, despite a poor shooting night... and he still found other ways to contribute by getting to the line and rebounding the ball well... the sign of a true MVP.

[jochhejaam]

Dirk with another game winner last night, despite a poor shooting night... and he still found other ways to contribute by getting to the line and rebounding the ball well... the sign of a true MVP.
I give Lebron the edge right now but I wouldn't consider it an injustice if Dirk won MVP. If the overall record has any bearing on the award it may very well go to Dirk.

Longshot = Billups

[1Parker1]

It's down between Dirk and Billups...Lebron has impressed me these last few games, but I still think he's too young and inexperienced to get the award.

Kobe, people aren't going to vote for because his team isn't exactly a 50 win team. Although, if I had a vote, it'd probably go to him. Simply because I saw the Suns vs Lakers game the other night....start of 4th quarter Kobe finally got a breather, and :wow is all I can say. Lakers completely collapsed and in 3 minutes a 2 point lead by the Suns suddenly turned to 10-12.

[1Parker1]

See? That's the thing with this years MVP vote..there's no clear cut favorite. At the start of this thread, a few months ago, I was convinced it had to be Nash. Now the Suns are slowly crashing back to Earth, while other teams are stepping up. Then I thought it was Kobe, but his 4th quarter heroics have gone down since last thought that. Then I thought it should be Billups, but then I realized he has Sheed, Rip, and Big Ben playing along side him...that's gotta help him! Etc. etc.
:)

[Medvedenko]

I hope Kobe wins, as he's having his best season of his illustrious career... Now with that being said, I'm sure if any of those other candidates scored 81 points in the game they would win hands down.....

[jochhejaam]

I hope Kobe wins, as he's having his best season of his illustrious career... Now with that being said, I'm sure if any of those other candidates scored 81 points in the game they would win hands down.....
There are 82 games played during the regular season therefore a single game, no matter how great, does not an MVP season make.

Nazr had games of 30/16 and 18/20 for the Spurs this year, totals that Duncan (nor any other Spur) has not surpassed in one game this season but that certainly doesn't make Nazr the MVP for the Spurs.

[jochhejaam]

I hope Kobe wins, as he's having his best season of his illustrious career... Now with that being said, I'm sure if any of those other candidates scored 81 points in the game they would win hands down.....
If you could make a case for 1 game earning the MVP then you should be able to likewise make a case for not being MVP based on a single game performance.
Case in point: Kobe was 9-33 from the field and 0-6 from 3 pt range in a game against the Spurs this year.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to disqualify him based on that single poor performance.

It's an award for an individual's performance over the course of the entire season.

That being said Kobe's having an excellent year. Definitely worthy of consideration for MVP.

[dmac]

do they look at just numbers (like baseball) or do they care about the contribution to the team. If they go by numbers alone, it must be Kobe. If they look at the team contribution, I'd say dirk diggler.

[JamStone]

If they go by numbers alone, it isn't Kobe. It must be LeBron.

Right now, I think it is LeBron's award to lose. Although, I can easily see Kobe, Dirk, or Nash winning it as well.

[1Parker1]

Question: How many games do you think the Cavs would win if they had Kobe instead of Lebron?? :angel

[v2000]

Question: How many games do you think the Cavs would win if they had Kobe instead of Lebron?? :angel
probably the same as Kobe is right now with the Lakers (40-45 wins), only because they are in the east. if they were in the west with Kobe, they would win 35 games. Kobe is a selfish ball hog, terrible teammate, and a jerk. he will NEVER be even CLOSE to Jordan. Jordan made his teammates better. Kobe makes them worse. Put Lebron on the Lakers, and they win 50-55 games. Put Jordan in his prime on the Lakers right now, Odom becomes an All-Star, and they win a title.

[Medvedenko]

Hey V2000....62 Kobe....61 Mavs after 3 quarters....
Oh, and if Kobe is such a horrible teammate and selfish player why does he have 3 rings while carrying the big cheese puff to the playoffs and contributing to the winning. Your logic is so retarded there's no need for a rebuttal. So basically you're telling me that with the Cavs sans Lebron in the West they wouldn't make the playoffs with Kobe. What you are eluding to is the Cavs without Lebron is a more incapable team than the Lakers without Kobe...please get Cuban out of your pants and use that brain of yours.

[v2000]

Hey V2000....62 Kobe....61 Mavs after 3 quarters....
Oh, and if Kobe is such a horrible teammate and selfish player why does he have 3 rings while carrying the big cheese puff to the playoffs and contributing to the winning. Your logic is so retarded there's no need for a rebuttal. So basically you're telling me that with the Cavs sans Lebron in the West they wouldn't make the playoffs with Kobe. What you are eluding to is the Cavs without Lebron is a more incapable team than the Lakers without Kobe...please get Cuban out of your pants and use that brain of yours.
Hey Medvedenko. Mavs 59 wins, Kobe, 41 wins. The win is all that matters. If you had any knowledge of basketball, you would know thats all that matters you dumbshit.

and PLEASE!!! without Shaq (who was also in his prime), that team won NOTHING. and i NEVER said that the Cavs with Kobe wouldnt make the playoffs. I said that if the Cavs were in the West, and had Kobe, then yea, they would not make the playoffs. I was saying more that Kobe is a bad teammate and makes his teammates worse, while Lebron is quite the opposite. If it werent for Kobe, Odom would be a 20-10 player, and probably be shooting around 50%.

I shouldnt expect much from you anyways. You are probably just a bandwagon Laker fan that doesnt know what the hell he is talking about. A true non-homer Laker fan that knows the game of basketball knows that Kobe is a terrible teammate and is very overrated. He is probably the most talented player in the NBA (along with Lebron) but his teammate skills and people skills are not very good. also, Kobe is probably the best one on one player in the NBA, but one on one doesnt win games or championships. Team play, which Kobe lacks more than anything, wins games and championships.

So please, get your mouth off his penis and shut up.

[Medvedenko]

Thanks for the insight...maybe you can talk smack when your "team" actually wins something other than in the regular season. I guess you think the East is the better divsion. Man, you're a complete tool...you ask anyone of the posters here on board they'll let you know my homerism is tempered quite the bit. Obviously, you don't understand this. Does Dirk make his teammates play better defense...Hey, I love Dirk as a player and he's damn good, that's one thing I can agree on, but then again saying Dirk is good is like saying the sun is hot. You add nothing to this forum.

[v2000]

Thanks for the insight...maybe you can talk smack when your "team" actually wins something other than in the regular season. I guess you think the East is the better divsion. Man, you're a complete tool...you ask anyone of the posters here on board they'll let you know my homerism is tempered quite the bit. Obviously, you don't understand this. Does Dirk make his teammates play better defense...Hey, I love Dirk as a player and he's damn good, that's one thing I can agree on, but then again saying Dirk is good is like saying the sun is hot. You add nothing to this forum.
ok, its kind of hard to follow you and understand your point when you talk about 3 or 4 completely different things, so lemme take a crack at it...

I never said the East is better. Im not sure where you got that idea.

Dirk may not be the best defender around, but his play motivates his teammates, lightens the load on them, and helps them play better. I suppose in a sense, it could translate into better defense.

That point about the sun and Dirk had absolutely nothing to do with this conversation and is quite irrevelant. What is your point? That you are a moron?

[TDMVPDPOY]

seriously if duncan can sumhow post up 50ppg 20rpg 5bpg 5asp for the remaining regular season games, he better get sum recognition, cose his goin to stop ur face in withi his PF foot

[Medvedenko]

never said the East is better. Im not sure where you got that idea.

You said if Kobe was on the Cavs they would wouldn't win the same amount of games as the Lakers have won this year; which translates in the Cavs being a worse team and the East being a more difficult conference. My point about the 81 point game is just that, it's only 1 game and I truly understand that it doesn't make an MVP. However as we discuss the MVP we look at this hallmark as a deterent for Kobe and if anyone of the other guys had accomplished this feat it would be regarded in the utmost reverence. There's just too much vitrolic hate for Kobe that it transcends any logic.

[CubanMustGo]

ESPN.com's Ric Bucher is certainly not going to vote for Dirk (or LeBron, for that matter) as MVP:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=11357

Sam (Arlington, TX): Hey Ric, nice peice today in the Daily Dime; however, I cannot help but criticize you and the rest of the ESPNers for not recognizing Dirk as a MVP canindate. All we want in Dallas is a little recognition, and when I log on to espn.com I see your column, which fails to include Dirk, and a poll which does the same. Come on man, what gives? Thats ridiculous!

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Dirk could've been mentioned in place of Brand, in terms of a guy who has been statistically impressive for a team that was better than expected. He's not on my ballot because I don't see how he makes the other Mavs better. He's not a particularly good passer, he's not a help defender and he doesn't create shots for other guys. He's a wonderful weapon and he's stepped up as a leader with Fin and Nash gone, but Josh Howard fits my idea of an MVP more than Dirk.

---

Ben (SF, CA): Yo Ric, can you make up an acronym award for Dirk? Seems like he was the only legit MVP candidate who didn't win anything in your Daily Dime piece.

SportsNation Ric Bucher: MUSPG: Most Underrated Saxophone-Playing German. :lol

---

Aaron (Indianapolis, IN): you guys always point of the flaws in LeBron's game, which happens often with great players. But at this point what more can he do? Average 40 and a triple double? Be careful cus he might just do it!

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Aaron is right, the best do get scrutinized more than the average player. But here's the simplest answer to both questions: He can be smarter. Much smarter. It's not a matter of taking the last shot every time. It's about looking to take the last shot every time, about forcing the defense to stop him first. All too many times, LeBron settles. He makes an acceptable play but not the best play. Say what you want about Kobe, he fully understands who he has around him and what his best chance of winning is and he goes for it. Throughout the course of a game, he's setting up his opponent, anticipating where the game is going to be won in the fourth quarter. Nash and Billups are very similar in that regard. Dirk and Elton Brand just don't have the pure ability to control a game in that manner. LeBron has the talent but not the awareness. Which makes him amazing that he can do what he can do. But it doesn't make him MVP.

---

Pat (Austin, TX): Is it just me, or did you just say LeBron doesn't have the awareness? I've watched every Cavs game this year, and while I won't call myself an expert like you do, I understand the game. Like Aaron said, the best are always scrutinized the most. Give the kid a break. The win against NO\OKC DOES mean something - momentum going into the playoffs, Mr. "Expert".

John Frisco, Tx: Well maybe if you wrote a halfway informed article about it people wouldn't be questioning it. do you even watch games?

Rob (Dallas): Ric- I was wondering if I could get a job at ESPN. Apparently you have ZERO basketball knowledge, and you have a job there. To say Dirk is not an MVP, and doesnt make his team better is not only moronic, but it proves that you dont do your own research, you just listen to dopes like Charles Barkley. Please file your resignation today.

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Good to know LeBron has his supporters.

---

Duncan, San Antone: Who cares about the MVP- it's all about championships....

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Amen to that.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Kobe is a selfish ball hog, terrible teammate, and a jerk.


Here ya go... http://www.sicktracks.com/galleries/data/500/580hater_ade-thumb.jpg

Just in case you need some more....

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I was saying more that Kobe is a bad teammate and makes his teammates worse, while Lebron is quite the opposite. If it werent for Kobe, Odom would be a 20-10 player, and probably be shooting around 50%.




Besides LO averaging a double-double last year(first in his career) and shooting 4% higher than he did in Miami, you're right...


So who else has he made worse?

[Medvedenko]

I guess Smush parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown having career years under the guidance of Kobe doesn't mean much as well. Still, I understand playing time is paramount, it still shows that given the lack of talent Kobe has around him he's still making the playoffs and putting up sick #'s.

[v2000]

You said if Kobe was on the Cavs they would wouldn't win the same amount of games as the Lakers have won this year; which translates in the Cavs being a worse team and the East being a more difficult conference. My point about the 81 point game is just that, it's only 1 game and I truly understand that it doesn't make an MVP. However as we discuss the MVP we look at this hallmark as a deterent for Kobe and if anyone of the other guys had accomplished this feat it would be regarded in the utmost reverence. There's just too much vitrolic hate for Kobe that it transcends any logic.
No, i said if he was on the Cavs, they WOULD win the same amount of games that the Lakers have won.

and i fell quite the opposite... i think that Kobe may get MVP JUST BEACAUSE of that 81 point game and all the scoring this year, and the fact that all analysts think he is just so good. Hes a damn good player, but IMO, he does not deserve the MVP award, because his team is struggling to make the playoffs.

[slayermin]

I guess Smush parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown having career years under the guidance of Kobe doesn't mean much as well. Still, I understand playing time is paramount, it still shows that given the lack of talent Kobe has around him he's still making the playoffs and putting up sick #'s.

I will give you Chris Mihm. Mihm, before he turned his ankle, was playing inspired ball. He has improved his game through hard work and perseverance. I would not credit Kobe at all for his improvement.

Kwame Brown and Smush Parker are way too inconsistent to be considered better players. Maybe there stats are better because they are getting more minutes, but I wouldn't exactly say they are vastly improved players.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

v2000, if teammates have no bearing on the argument and it's strictly where they finish record wise, you just made the argument for Chauncey over Dirk...

[Darrin]

I guess Smush parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown having career years under the guidance of Kobe doesn't mean much as well. Still, I understand playing time is paramount, it still shows that given the lack of talent Kobe has around him he's still making the playoffs and putting up sick #'s.

Just call me the useless fact guy:

Kwame Brown: 6.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.0 apg, .65 bpg in 27.3 MPG. This is not his statistical best season: 10.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.5 apg, .70 bpg in 30.3 mpg in 2003-04.

Smush Parker: 11.4 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.7 apg, and 1.71 spg in 34.0 mpg. This is his career season. His previous best was 02-03.

Chris Mihm: 10.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.26 bpg in 26.9 mpg. This is also his best season. His previous best was last year.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You really can only compare seasons for Mihm, Brown and LO. That being said, the argument "he makes other teammates better" is a weak one IMO.

Take Nash, for instance. Marion's numbers are the pretty much the same with or without him. Same for James Jones and Joe Johnson. But you don't hear that side of it. You only hear Boris Diaw, regardless if he was playing out of position in ATL and is thriving in the Phoenix O.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

kobe is not winning anything without Shaq

he was the main reason they won titles

MVP must goto Nikolas Tskitishvilli.......he is the main man behind the Suns solid season lol

[v2000]

v2000, if teammates have no bearing on the argument and it's strictly where they finish record wise, you just made the argument for Chauncey over Dirk...
where did I ever say that? wins of course, are the most important stat, but another thing to take into consideration is the fact that the East is very weak. If the Spurs or Mavs were in the east, they would have 64, 65 wins by now, despite the injuries. The Pistons have been perfectly healthy, and will only have 3, maybe 4 more wins than the Spurs or Mavs will.

Dirk and Nash both deserve the award much more than the Pistons. They both have had to carry their teams through some very rough periods, and still finish among the top of the west, while the Pistons have been able to pretty much cruise through the entire season.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

where did I ever say that? wins of course, are the most important stat, but another thing to take into consideration is the fact that the East is very weak. If the Spurs or Mavs were in the east, they would have 64, 65 wins by now, despite the injuries. The Pistons have been perfectly healthy, and will only have 3, maybe 4 more wins than the Spurs or Mavs will.

Dirk and Nash both deserve the award much more than the Pistons. They both have had to carry their teams through some very rough periods, and still finish among the top of the west, while the Pistons have been able to pretty much cruise through the entire season.

That's purely speculation(first paragraph). But I can play the if game too: If you replaced Kobe with Dirk, the Lakers would be under .500.


Nash plays with Marion, he gets a lot of help.

The difference between Kobe and Dirk is that while Dirk has had to carry the Mavs in stretches, Kobe's done it all year.

[v2000]

That's purely speculation(first paragraph). But I can play the if game too: If you replaced Kobe with Dirk, the Lakers would be under .500.

Nash plays with Marion, he gets a lot of help.

The difference between Kobe and Dirk is that while Dirk has had to carry the Mavs in stretches, Kobe's done it all year.
whatever, im tired of arguing about this. if you want to believe that Kobe is a good teammate and makes his team better, then whatever... believe what you want.

[Darrin]

Chill people. It's a debate, and I don't think we are going to change anyone's mind. Getting all upset is needless. We are all fans here of the NBA, and none of us works for these players. Don't take it so personal.

[1Parker1]

:lmao :lmao V2000....you think Dirk could actually do better with guys like Smush Parker and Sasha surrounding him?! If you honestly think that Dirk could carry the Lakers to more wins than Kobe has, you're seriously :drunk.

[Darrin]

:lmao :lmao V2000....you think Dirk could actually do better with guys like Smush Parker and Sasha surrounding him?! If you honestly think that Dirk could carry the Lakers to more wins than Kobe has, you're seriously :drunk.


I love to drink.

[1Parker1]

^Understandable...you're a Pistons fan.

:lol

[Darrin]

^Understandable...you're a Pistons fan.

:lol

It's been ten minutes, and I haven't stopped laughing. That is hilarious!

[1Parker1]

It's been ten minutes, and I haven't stopped laughing. That is hilarious!

Are you being sarcastic?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I would hope so.

I'm hungry, why don't you send me a philly cheesesteak 1p1?

[1Parker1]

I would hope so.

I'm hungry, why don't you send me a philly cheesesteak 1p1?

I don't do favors for Pistons fans. :)

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I don't do favors for Pistons fans. :)


That's just not right.

[v2000]

:lmao :lmao V2000....you think Dirk could actually do better with guys like Smush Parker and Sasha surrounding him?! If you honestly think that Dirk could carry the Lakers to more wins than Kobe has, you're seriously :drunk.
Yes, I think he would do better than Kobe has done. Kobe definitely has more talent than Dirk, and has the ability to do better, but is more interested in scoring, and trying to look like Jordan, but is failing miserably at it. You likewise, need to get your mouth off Kobe's dick you freakin homer.

[Darrin]

I disagree. Although I believe that Kobe Bryant wants to prove he can lead a championship-calibur team by scoring 30-35% of their offense, I believe that the Lakers are weak enough defensively that Dirk would do worse with that group.

[v2000]

I disagree. Although I believe that Kobe Bryant wants to prove he can lead a championship-calibur team by scoring 30-35% of their offense, I believe that the Lakers are weak enough defensively that Dirk would do worse with that group.
But when you play basketball, having a ball hog jerk on your team doesnt make you better, no matter how good he is. Having someone try to fight you just because you took a last shot (and it wasnt a bad shot at that), instead of him isnt exactly going to motivate you to play better. When playing b-ball, id MUCH rather have a less talented, but hard worker and good teammate on my team, instead of a very talented ball hog that acts like a jerk. having guys like those on your team drains you mentally, and makes you not even want to play the game.

that is why i think they would be more successful with Dirk. he is a much better teammate and leader than Kobe, and they will respond much more favorably by playing harder.

[1Parker1]

Yes, I think he would do better than Kobe has done. Kobe definitely has more talent than Dirk, and has the ability to do better, but is more interested in scoring, and trying to look like Jordan, but is failing miserably at it. You likewise, need to get your mouth off Kobe's dick you freakin homer.

Why don't you get your mouth off Dirk's dick you freakin homer?

I'm not even going to bother wasting my time discussing basketball with you. Judging by your posts, it's obvious your knowledge of basketball does not go beyong the Dallas Mavericks. :rolleyes

[mavsfan1000]

So since Kobe is more selfish he is the better player? What about the teams success in the process? The Mavs way better with Dirk clearly being the best player on the team.

[1Parker1]

So since Kobe is more selfish he is the better player? What about the teams success in the process? The Mavs way better with Dirk clearly being the best player on the team.

ARghhhh!!! Do poeple not read? How can you compare team success between the Lakers and Mavs??? Have you seen the players on the Lakers squad? You're the one who's constantly saying that you have Ginobili and Parker like players in Harris and the deepest bench in the NBA, etc. etc. You don't think that has anythign to do with the Mavs sucess, as much as Dirk? You can't have it both ways and say that you have a average team and Dirk makes them better, while at the same time proclaiming guys like Devin Harris to be the future of the league. :rolleyes

Anyways, I'm done arguing in this thread over the MVP. We'll see who wins it in a few weeks. The funny thing is, if you Mavs fans would learn how to read and stop getting to defensive at the drop of a hat, you'd have scrolled up and noticed that I recently said I think MVP will probably come down between Dirk and Billups.

[v2000]

Why don't you get your mouth off Dirk's dick you freakin homer?

I'm not even going to bother wasting my time discussing basketball with you. Judging by your posts, it's obvious your knowledge of basketball does not go beyong the Dallas Mavericks. :rolleyes
STFU bitch! quit trying to copy my shit you fuckin ho. you are a total fuckin douchebag...

[Darrin]

There is too much tension on this board. Go get laid or something. Walk away, and remember that it's just sports not life or death.

[Medvedenko]

V2000...hey nice job personally attacking someone with your mysogynistic bullshit. While we're at it, leave this forum or at least change your screen name to wife beater.

[v2000]

V2000...hey nice job personally attacking someone with your mysogynistic bullshit. While we're at it, leave this forum or at least change your screen name to wife beater.
The only difference between your face and a bag of crap is the bag.

[Medvedenko]

Man you're hillarious....please before any comedy headhunters scoop you up for your rapier wit, or should I say rapist wit...you better peddle your enlightened intellect on the comedy club tour.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

So since Kobe is more selfish he is the better player? What about the teams success in the process? The Mavs way better with Dirk clearly being the best player on the team.


And the Mavs clearly have a better team 2-12. Is it that hard to comprehend?

Like I said earlier, if that's your stance then Billups is the MVP...

[CubanMustGo]

No, no, it's only his stance until someone calls him on it. Oops.

[v2000]

Man you're hillarious....please before any comedy headhunters scoop you up for your rapier wit, or should I say rapist wit...you better peddle your enlightened intellect on the comedy club tour.
You are depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.

[Medvedenko]

I'm the idiot eh....no need to say anymore then...

[cheguevara]

v2000 your smack is weak. Why don't u go back to the mav boards and continue your thread about the # of Dirk's pubic hairs you've collected.

[v2000]

v2000 your smack is weak. Why don't u go back to the mav boards and continue your thread about the # of Dirk's pubic hairs you've collected.
haha, talk about weak. if your best diss is about Dirks pubes, then you need to shut the hell up, or at least make it somewhat good.

[Darrin]

I suggest we move this thread to the troll forum.

[cheguevara]

haha, talk about weak. if your best diss is about Dirks pubes, then you need to shut the hell up, or at least make it somewhat good.

I would love to amuse you. But I have better things to do than to entertain a quadriplegic from Dallas

[ShoogarBear]

I love to drink.


^Understandable...you're a Pistons fan.


And if you ask him for some, he'll be glad to throw it at you. :)

[Darrin]

And if you ask him for some, he'll be glad to throw it at you. :)

That was the implication of my uncontrollable laughter.

[ShoogarBear]

That was the implication of my uncontrollable laughter.

Well, you guys were operating way too subtle for me, I had to have it underlined and highlighted.

[Darrin]

Well, you guys were operating way too subtle for me, I had to have it underlined and highlighted.
edit:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i222/EMC2002/untitled5.jpg

There you go. :lol

[ShoogarBear]

For real? The guy with the hat? :lmao

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Isn't that the guy that JO knocked-the-fuck out?

[Darrin]

For real? The guy with the hat? :lmao

Yep, you caught me. I was stupid enough to run onto the floor past security, and stare down a 6"7, 250-pound professional athlete who is still juiced up from a fight with Ben Wallace and running into the stands. Yes, that is me. My brain is the size of a walnut. :drunk

Have you met my best friend, Cap Morgan? For some reason he's not allowed in the Palace anymore.

[Darrin]

Isn't that the guy that JO knocked-the-fuck out?

I don't remember if that's the guy JO takes out or if it was the guy in the Ben Wallace jersey.

[Darrin]

Like I said: troll forum.

[1Parker1]

And if you ask him for some, he'll be glad to throw it at you. :)


:lol :lol

[Pistons < Spurs]

Does tonights Cavs/Pistons game take LBJ out of the MVP race? Not a bad effort from him....but the Cavs are getting embarrased on National TV.

Plus LBJ may have sprained his ankle....meaning he may not play the rest of the regular season.

Thoughts?

[jochhejaam]

Does tonights Cavs/Pistons game take LBJ out of the MVP race? Not a bad effort from him....but the Cavs are getting embarrased on National TV.

Plus LB mave have sprained his ankle....meaning he may not play the rest of the regular season.

Thoughts?
It certainly doesn't help him any. I hate to get Mavsfan1000 all excited but I honestly think Dirk may be the most deserving this year.

[Obstructed_View]

If anyone else in the league put up numbers like James they'd be a unanimous lock for MVP. Does everyone understand that only three players have done what he's done before? Ever?

[Pistons < Spurs]

If anyone else in the league put up numbers like James they'd be a unanimous lock for MVP.

So are you saying that there is some kind of conspiracy? The powers that be don't want him to win it?

Just curious.


Does everyone understand that only three players have done what he's done before? Ever?


His #'s are amazing. No doubt about it. I wouldn't be mad if he did win it, but I'm not really sure he should.........however the last 2 weeks or so, he has steadily rissen in my personal MVP rankings with his stellar performance.

Part of it may be due to all the LBJ hype. I sort of expect those kind of #'s from him. For 2 years now, I've been hearing that he's going to average a triple double for the whiole season. (which I honestly think he may at some point in his career.)

Like I said, if he wins, thats cool. I'll be happy for him. No hating from me.

What I think is pretty cool, is that we have so many worthy candidates. You can make an argument for or against 5 or 6 players.

If nothing else, I think it's good for the league

[ShoogarBear]

What I think is pretty cool, is that we have so many worthy candidates. You can make an argument for or against 5 or 6 players.

If nothing else, I think it's good for the league
Yep.

When you have this many deserving candidates, people start considering other factors.

LBJ is going to suffer because everyone knows he's going to win it sometime in the next 2-3 years. To a lesser exten, this is Wade's problem, too. So the voters will have an unspoken bias in favor of someone who has paid their dues (Kobe, Dirk) or someone who will never be under serious consideration again (Billups). I think Nash's stock has dropped, and he's already got one.

It's going to be one of Kobe, Dirk, or Billups. Kobe will have strong sentiment against him for the off-court stuff, plus his team isn't that good. Billups will have the opposite perception problem in that his team is really good, and you could probably stick one of 3-4 other point guards in there and Detroit wouldn't really drop off tremendously.

If Dallas finishes strong, and especially if they win the division, the MVP is Dirk's to lose.

[Darrin]

Does tonights Cavs/Pistons game take LBJ out of the MVP race? Not a bad effort from him....but the Cavs are getting embarrased on National TV.

Plus LBJ may have sprained his ankle....meaning he may not play the rest of the regular season.

Thoughts?



I'm beginning to think that players fake an injury to explain away a lop-sided loss like the one the Cavs just had. It keeps the player the story and it eases the fans nerves. I could be seeing a conspiracy where none exists. But the amount of injuries to star players in blowout losses is baffling.

[Obstructed_View]

So are you saying that there is some kind of conspiracy? The powers that be don't want him to win it?

Just curious.

First of all, a conspiracy by definition requires people to be doing something as part of an agreed-upon plan. It's not that organized. Secondly the "powers that be" don't vote for MVP, and if they did, LBJ would probably win whether he deserved it or not, so it's fortunate that they don't have that kind of control. What I am saying is that there are people that won't vote for him no matter what he does, just like there are people on this board that are going to bad mouth him no matter what he does.

One third of the voters didn't vote for him as rookie of the year. One of the voters had him third.

[mavsfan1000]

Lebron James is getting superhyped for one months performance. I'm glad he got owned by Detroit tonight to shut the people at ESPN up.

[Kori Ellis]

Does tonights Cavs/Pistons game take LBJ out of the MVP race? Not a bad effort from him....but the Cavs are getting embarrased on National TV.

Plus LBJ may have sprained his ankle....meaning he may not play the rest of the regular season.

Thoughts?

He's still the Vegas odds favorite.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38404

By the way, what the hell are you guys talking about in this thread? Darrin was part of The Brawl and v2000 is still pissing people off?

[jochhejaam]

If anyone else in the league put up numbers like James they'd be a unanimous lock for MVP. Does everyone understand that only three players have done what he's done before? Ever?
I understand :D .
According to my morning paper he's on pace to become only the second player in league history since Jordan to average at least 31.7 pts, 7.2 rbds and 6.7 assists.

Deserving of it this year but as the song went in the Spurs Forum thread;
"Ti-i-i-ime is on my side".

It helps to have your team do well against the team with the best record and the Cavs have lost 3 of 4 to the Pistons by an average of 15.7 pts.
His supporting cast takes the blame if he loses out to Dirk.

Either way it's been an interesting race this year.

[v2000]

I would love to amuse you. But I have better things to do than to entertain a quadriplegic from Dallas
haha, that was ALMOST clever. get help you son of a bitch.

[ShoogarBear]

If anyone else in the league put up numbers like James they'd be a unanimous lock for MVP. Does everyone understand that only three players have done what he's done before? Ever?

Yeah, and one of them who did it (Jerry West) didn't win the MVP that year. So by itself that's no argument.

[v2000]

I don't remember if that's the guy JO takes out or if it was the guy in the Ben Wallace jersey.
that was the one Artest took out. the other one was next to him, but you cant see him in that picture. either way, those dudes are total dumbasses.

[1Parker1]

By the way, what the hell are you guys talking about in this thread? Darrin was part of The Brawl and v2000 is still pissing people off?

Well, we were having an awesome debate on the winner of the MVP award, until v2000 had to go and ruin it. I'm not too sure if Darrin is joking or not about his involvement in The Brawl though. :smokin

[ShoogarBear]

Darrin apparently can't remember if he is the one who was hit by Artest or the one who was hit by O'Neal. Those mustve been some punches.

[Darrin]

Well, we were having an awesome debate on the winner of the MVP award, until v2000 had to go and ruin it. I'm not too sure if Darrin is joking or not about his involvement in The Brawl though. :smokin

My involvement in the brawl is that I worked until 10:30 PM EST, taped the game, watched the brawl before I saw the game and started curing at the television. That's the extent of my involvement.

[v2000]

Well, we were having an awesome debate on the winner of the MVP award, until v2000 had to go and ruin it. I'm not too sure if Darrin is joking or not about his involvement in The Brawl though. :smokin
whatever bitch. you were the one who came in and acted like a smartass. I was doing quite fine with the other posters. I have my opinions, and you have yours. I feel that Dirk is more of an MVP than Kobe is, and that Dirk is a much better team player than Kobe ever has been, and ever will be. Accept it, and move on.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

whatever bitch. you were the one who came in and acted like a smartass. I was doing quite fine with the other posters. I have my opinions, and you have yours. I feel that Dirk is more of an MVP than Kobe is, and that Dirk is a much better team player than Kobe ever has been, and ever will be. Accept it, and move on.

Seriously, the league MVP has to do more than Dirk does(GS, PHX).

How can you lose both games of a B2B when you're gunning for the #1 seed? Wouldn't that suggest poor leadership?

[Obstructed_View]

MVP is a bullshit award. Always has been, always will be.

[1Parker1]

whatever bitch. you were the one who came in and acted like a smartass. I was doing quite fine with the other posters. I have my opinions, and you have yours. I feel that Dirk is more of an MVP than Kobe is, and that Dirk is a much better team player than Kobe ever has been, and ever will be. Accept it, and move on.


**Sigh.