Bonds on Bonds

[SoCalSpursFan]

Thoughts?

[Horry For 3!]

He was crying.....I turned the channel.....:tu

[Spurminator]

[Spurm on Bonds]

I've done some thinking on Bonds and I've sort of re-evaluated my position. I think the whole Bonds steroids issue, while disappointing and deserving of punishment, has gotten out of hand. Especially as it relates to Bonds' rank among Baseball's greatest players of all time.

I believe it's an indictment of Baseball fans' obsession with individual achievements over team achievements. Bonds corrupted himself because of his greed for individual glory, but fans and the media have probably overreacted because of their infatuation with statistics.

He broke the homerun record of a man who most believe was also on steroids. He's approaching career homerun records held by Aaron and Ruth. But if he eclipses those records, are Aaron and Ruth's achievements in the game tarnished? Did Ruth's position in Baseball's history take a hit when Aaron broke his record?

Barry Bonds has never won a World Series, and he will never win it... All of the Cream and Clear in the world will never put that on his resume, and that part (the most important part) of Baseball History has not been tainted.

I'm glad he will retire without a World Series ring because I don't like him. But at the same time, I can't deny what a dominant force he has been at the plate, and it's silly to suggest that it was all because of steroids. There has been no scarier player in baseball over the past five years... maybe not in history. Steroids surely played some role in this, but not as big a role as we are suggesting in this ongoing drama.

I suppose Baseball needs a Fall Guy (Rapheal Palmiero was not sufficient) to deter future players from experimenting with drugs, but Bonds is simply the face of a League, a Media, and a generation of fans and players who "dug the longball" far too much and allowed it to get out of hand.

[/Spurm on Bonds]

[leemajors]

lyle alzado's deteriorating body scared the hell out of me when i was young. i was never considering taking steroids, but the cover article with him on it in SI about his inoperable brain tumor made me wonder why anyone would ever risk it.

[slayermin]

I was one of the biggest Barry Bonds fans out there. After reading Jose Canseco's book, I no longer feel the same way about him or Mark McGwire or others that were implicated by Canseco.

But I think it's unfair to make Barry the lightning rod or scapegoat for this entire steroid mess. The way I see it, the owners and the game has profited from what these roid heads did.

Barry would win back some respect from me if he just retired and went ahead and wrote his own book.

[baseline bum]

I know baseball has always had a culture of cheating, but the roid craze is way over the top. I have no resepct for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Canseco, or anyone else who used that crap. If Tim Duncan was using them I'd immediately quit being a fan of his too (pretty doubtful, looking at what Kori once referred to as his 'squishy arms' :lol).

[word]

Listen, when Barry called Babe Ruth 'that man' in the context of not being after Aarons record so much but definately wanted Ruths record....

It has a racial overtone to it. What's Barra's hate on the Babe all about ?

[T-Pain]

like i said in another thread, i believe bonds is innocent. hes shown alot of denial and its more convincing than pete rose

[slayermin]

like i said in another thread, i believe bonds is innocent. hes shown alot of denial and its more convincing than pete rose

Dude, you need to read Jose Canseco's book. That will change your mind.

[cecil collins]

Dude, you need to read Jose Canseco's book. That will change your mind.
Because Jose is the ultimate authority with his ability to sell-out, and sensationalize things because he can't hit the ball anymore. The bitch was on surreal life.

He broke the homerun record of a man who most believe was also on steroids.
And, was openly on a type of steroid that soon after became illegal.

[scott]

Barry is a jerk - if it weren't for that I don't think people would make such a big deal out of it. But, when you are a world class douche, people will revel in your sorrow.

[aaronstampler]

like i said in another thread, i believe bonds is innocent. hes shown alot of denial and its more convincing than pete rose


C'mon dude, I'm as big a Bonds fan as anyone, I've lived in the bay area practically my whole life and seen him hit like a 100 homers in person, but he's definitely guilty. Every credible doctor who knows anything about the human body will tell you it's simply impossible to produce testerone at the same rate after 35 as one does in their teens and 20s. No matter how intensely you work out, how much you want it, the human body just doesn't work that way. You can't produce testerone at Barry's age without help.


That being said, I find the media's persecution of him disgusting. Just because he's been an ass to them for 20 years, they're targeting him now. What he did isn't any different than what countless other players in the sport did, and everybody looked the other way for McGwire and Sosa, when it was so obvious. McGwire was even caught red-handed with a steroid and said he didn't know it was a steroid. I'm sorry, but I think if McGwire had 708 right now, this would not be a huge story. They treat Bonds like he's OJ, and it's just not right.

[3rdCoast]

Bonds on Bonds

Blacks on Blondes

Bonds on Blondes :lmao

[Trainwreck2100]

Bonds on Bonds\\

They finally changed Steroid's name to Bonds?

[degenerate_gambler]

Dude, you need to read Jose Canseco's book. That will change your mind.


No it won't..

[T Park]

i believe bonds is innocent

lol

yeah that head growing in a couple years was NATURAL!!


:lmao

[T-Pain]

C'mon dude, I'm as big a Bonds fan as anyone, I've lived in the bay area practically my whole life and seen him hit like a 100 homers in person, but he's definitely guilty. Every credible doctor who knows anything about the human body will tell you it's simply impossible to produce testerone at the same rate after 35 as one does in their teens and 20s. No matter how intensely you work out, how much you want it, the human body just doesn't work that way. You can't produce testerone at Barry's age without help.


That being said, I find the media's persecution of him disgusting. Just because he's been an ass to them for 20 years, they're targeting him now. What he did isn't any different than what countless other players in the sport did, and everybody looked the other way for McGwire and Sosa, when it was so obvious. McGwire was even caught red-handed with a steroid and said he didn't know it was a steroid. I'm sorry, but I think if McGwire had 708 right now, this would not be a huge story. They treat Bonds like he's OJ, and it's just not right.


sorry, i support barry to the fullest, i just cant believe he would cheat like that. i grew up watching him. but i do agree the media treats him like shit

[slayermin]

There was an interesting interview with Mike Schmidt. It sounds like Schmidt is sympathetic to Bonds.

[FromWayDowntown]

What peeves me about the Barry situation is that the media is starting to play with this as if Bonds somehow doesn't deserve a shining spot in baseball history. If Barry had retired in 1998 and never considered any other substances, his numbers were first-ballot, no-brainer Hall of Fame numbers.

In that span, Bonds hit .290 with 411 home runs and 1216 RBI, had a career .454 OBP and a .556 SLG for a top-10 all-time OPS of 1.010. He also stole 445 bases, won 3 MVP's, 8 gold gloves, and was an 8-time all-star. Given the length of his career to that point (13 seasons, with a partial season in 1986 (the year he was called up) and a partial season in 1994 (strike)) the Hall of Fame was inevitable.

Bonds was the most dominant player of the 1990's (before any steroid accusastions, and apparently, a time during which Barry was indisputably clean) and, IMO, probably the greatest player between 1980 and 2000 -- the greatest player of his generation.

If Barry used steroids, he broke the law, but he didn't cheat -- at least not given the rules that existed at the time. (is a player who breaks the law by using cocaine cheating?) If the facts prove that Bonds knowingly used steroids, it should tarnish the end of his career; but it shouldn't tarnish all that came before it, when he was absolutely clean.

I also don't understand the venom that is reserved for Barry. He's been vilified by the media for most of his career, because he wouldn't play their game. Do we and the media have some right to force him to tell us his story and should his refusal to do that make him a demonized figure for the rest of his life? I don't think so. But, obviously, many disagree with me. I personally like Barry Bonds and respect that he's become abrasive as a defense to the media castigation he's gotten for most of his career -- I think I'd do the same thing. I hope he didn't cheat (and if he did, I wish that he hadn't), but again, I don't think that tarnishes one of the greatest careers we'll ever see.

[Jimcs50]

I was one of the biggest Barry Bonds fans out there. After reading Jose Canseco's book, I no longer feel the same way about him or Mark McGwire or others that were implicated by Canseco.

But I think it's unfair to make Barry the lightning rod or scapegoat for this entire steroid mess. The way I see it, the owners and the game has profited from what these roid heads did.

Barry would win back some respect from me if he just retired and went ahead and wrote his own book.

Bonds was not even indicted or implicated in Canseco's book.

[slayermin]

Bonds was not even indicted or implicated in Canseco's book.

No, but Canseco does talk about Barry being amazed at his physique before the 1998 season which coincides with the timeline in the "Game of Shadows."

I recommended the book because it goes into detail about the mindset of the players and the type of roids they were taking.