Nationwide General Immigrant Strike! May 1, 2006

[SA210]

May 1, 2006: Call to Action!


Nationwide General Immigrant Strike!





"El Gran Paro Americano 2006" "The Great American Boycott 2006"


"Un dia sin immigrante" "A day without an immigrant"



Immigrants contribute 7 billion in social security per year. they earn 240 billion, report 90 billion, and only are reimbursed 5 billion, "where are the 85 billion?" They also contribute to the U.S. economy 25 billion more than they receive in healthcare, etc., etc., etc.

According to the anti-immigrant politicians and hatemongers, "immigrants are a drain on society." If this is true, then during the day on May 1st the stock market will surge, and the economy will boom. If not, we prove them wrong once and for all. We know what will happen!


April 10 National Day of Action & Rally for Immigrant Rights!

Recognizing that the USA is a nation of immigrants, join the April 10 in a massive rally to:
- Stop the anti-immigrant House resolution 4437
- Stop all attacks against immigrants
- Stop criminalization of immigrant communities

We demand comprehensive immigration reform, including:
- A path to citizenship, not a temporary guest worker program
- Family reunification measures
- Worker protections
- Full rights for all immigrants!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.immigrantsolidarity.org/

San Antonio will also participate with the many cities nationwide on May 1st.

Also This Monday, April 10, 2006.

http://www.cccaction.org/cccaction/april_10_local_events.html

"Si Se Puede" :clap

[boutons_]

why _NOT_ on Cinco de Mayo? these people have no imagination. :lol

[smeagol]

why on Cinco de Mayo? these people have no imagination. :lol
I believe they are striking on May one, not May five.

[scott]

why on Cinco de Mayo? these people have no imagination. :lol

boutons_ just pwnd himself.

[SA210]

It's also on my birthday. Great way to spend it. :tu

[scott]

Immigrants contribute 7 billion in social security per year. they earn 240 billion, report 90 billion, and only are reimbursed 5 billion, "where are the 85 billion?" They also contribute to the U.S. economy 25 billion more than they receive in healthcare, etc., etc., etc.

Like most economists, I am very much pro-immigration and the free trade of labor. However, I feel obligated to point out that a good portion of money that illegal immigrants contribute to the Social Security program is done so via stolen Social Security numbers. I'm not going to try to find it, but MSNBC had an article on it a few months ago.

Also, I fail to understand what the organizer of this event is trying to get across with his (rather dubious) statistics. America as a whole contributes more to the economy than they recieve in the form of healthcare and "etc., etc." (whatever that is). Government spending on social programs isn't the entire economy. Most recent GDP figure is about $12.5 trillion... and I'm going to make a wild guess and say that all of that isn't healthcare.

And what is this "85 billion" being asked about. They earn 240 billion, report 90 billion, reimbursed 5 billion... what the heck are we talking about here? What are they reporting? What do they need reimbursement for? Is the 90 billion reported milage for business supplies their employers haven't reimbursed them for?

Its unfortunate that immigrants apparently have this organization representing them.

[Sec24Row7]

Does this mean that the Mojados that are scheduled to walk across that day will not walk?

Cool!!! Strike every day!

[SA210]

Chicanos!!

[scott]

So... just so I'm sure... when the people in these protests are asked serious questions about the things their protesting about, their response is going to be "Chicanos!"?

Just asking...

[SA210]

Does this mean that the Mojados that are scheduled to walk across that day will not walk?

Cool!!! Strike every day!
:rolleyes

[Yonivore]

Immigration good, illegal immigration bad.

It's that simple.

[SA210]

So... just so I'm sure... when the people in these protests are asked serious questions about the things their protesting about, their response is going to be "Chicanos!"?

Just asking...
I know it's a scary word for you guys. But we will show our pride in a Huge way. We will not back off from the hatred and the continuous discrimination, racism and injustices that have been ignored for far too long. Equal rights for all.

Chicanos!! Yes, we are proud and immigrants are humans, as you are also an immigrant. Humans are not illegal. Mexicans should be accepted here just as you are.

Remember,

We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!

[scott]

I know it's a scary word for you guys. But we will show our pride in a Huge way. We will not back off from the hatred and the continuous discrimination, racism and injustices that have been ignored for far too long. Equal rights for all.

Chicanos!! Yes, we are proud and immigrants are humans, as you are also an immigrant. Humans are not illegal. Mexicans should be accepted here just as you are.

Remember,

We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!

So... the answer is essentially yes?

[Sec24Row7]

Yeah roll your eyes.

People try to make Mojado or Wetback a racist term, and it isn't.

It describes a person that walks across.

People that try to call all Latinos "Wetbacks" are just idiots and they aren't from around here.

I'm not giving up the words. Sorry.

If some Gringo Yankee calls you a wetback show him your drivers license them punch him in the mouth. I encourage it. I'm right there with you, I would probably hold his arms for you.

But people that walk across my ranch are mojados.

[SA210]

Immigration good, illegal immigration bad.

It's that simple.
No human is illegal. And You sir are an immigrant of this country as well.

[SA210]

So... the answer is essentially yes?
You read what I said in my last post. Why do you hate the word?

[Sec24Row7]

Bullshit. He was born here.

Go look the defenition of immigrant the fuck up.

[scott]

You read what I said in my last post. Why do you hate the word?

What word do I hate? I brought up issues with some items in the original post... you've responded with cute slogans.

[SA210]

Yeah roll your eyes.

People try to make Mojado or Wetback a racist term, and it isn't.

It describes a person that walks across.

People that try to call all Latinos "Wetbacks" are just idiots and they aren't from around here.

I'm not giving up the words. Sorry.

If some Gringo Yankee calls you a wetback show him your drivers license them punch him in the mouth. I encourage it. I'm right there with you, I would probably hold his arms for you.

But people that walk across my ranch are mojados.
So, they are mojados or wetbacks first? Not Mexicans?

No, that's not racist at all, right.

Even our laws would disagree with that.

[SA210]

What word do I hate? I brought up issues with some items in the original post... you've responded with cute slogans.
Why are you bothered so much about this? This was Mexico. These people are good enough for a guest worker program, to use them for what we need them for, but then get the hell out?

[scott]

Okay, I have no clue what you are talking about... so I guess... um... you win?

[Sec24Row7]

So, they are mojados or wetbacks first? Not Mexicans?

No, that's not racist at all, right.

Even our laws would disagree with that.


There are pakistani and African wetbacks too you moron. It's a term for people that walk across the river illegally.

[SA210]

Bullshit. He was born here.

Go look the defenition of immigrant the fuck up.
Our constitution was written by immigrants. Don't try to give Me a lesson. Your ancestors are not from here.

[SA210]

There are pakistani and African wetbacks too you moron. It's a term for people that walk across the river illegally.
Why are you so quick to start calling names? Do you feel that it wins any debates for you? How old are you conservative guys who are so quick to start the childish namecalling?

And Yes, it Is a racial slur.

[SA210]

Okay, I have no clue what you are talking about... so I guess... um... you win?
Funny how you have No idea whatsoever what I am talking about. I believe you.:rolleyes
These are issues that America needs to finally give attention to, and they will, because a movement is really starting, and it's for justice, so that we all can live together in unity.

[scott]

I know the the immigration debate is about. I have no clue what *YOU* are talking about... as in... you don't make any sense. I tried to have a real discussion and and you went xrayzebra/gtownspur on me. Good luck with your strike.

[Sec24Row7]

Nope, not a racial slur. Doesn't imply race.

And everyone that doesn't live in the great rift valley's ancestors are immigrants so I don't know where that gets you.

[Sec24Row7]

Our constitution was written by people who for the most part were born in North America too btw. So that's a pretty dead argument.

[SA210]

I didn't go xray or gtown on you, and you know that. gtown resorts to homosexual insults everytime and xray calls people names too.

I made perfect sense. It's easy for you to say otherwise to win an arguement, many people do it on here alot as a tactic, mainly conservatives. I didn't say "Chicanos" to Your post in particular, by the way, but I Did respond to your second post, and you wanted to criticize me some more.

I typed in English, there's nothing cryptic in what I said. It's just a touchy and very controversial issue. It's something you don't feel comfortable with. That's fine, because many immigrants aren't comfortable with their families being hungry.

At least you didn't start the namecalling like others.

[SA210]

Our constitution was written by people who for the most part were born in North America too btw. So that's a pretty dead argument.
That's not a dead arguement, in fact it's not an arguement at all. It's fact. This country was founded by immigrants and you can't argue that.

[Sec24Row7]

2 entries found for immigrant.
im·mi·grant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-grnt)
n.
A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another. A plant or animal that establishes itself in an area where it previously did not exist.

adj.
Of or relating to immigrants or the act of immigrating.


THEY WERE BORN IN THE AMERICAS. THEY WERE NOT IMMIGRANTS.

[SA210]

But people that walk across my ranch are mojados.
Let's get real, These are the people You are talking about, specifically, when you say "mojados".

[SA210]

2 entries found for immigrant.
im·mi·grant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-grnt)
n.
A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another. A plant or animal that establishes itself in an area where it previously did not exist.

adj.
Of or relating to immigrants or the act of immigrating.


THEY WERE BORN IN THE AMERICAS. THEY WERE NOT IMMIGRANTS.
"THEY" were born here?

Who are "They"?

And how did their people before Them get here before "They" were born in the 1st place?

And when "They" got here, was anyone already living here?

And if so, who were "they"?

[Sec24Row7]

"THEY" were born here?

1 Who are "They"?

2 And how did their people before Them get here before "They" were born in the 1st place?

3 And when "They" got here, was anyone already living here?

And if so, who were "they"?

1 "they" were the framers of the constitution.

2 People before them were either born here or immigrated from Europe.

3 People before the Europeans were Indians who's ancestors came from somewhere else.


What this boils down to is this:

You can call me the Great Great Great Grandson of an immigrant, but you can't call me an immigrant.

You can't put me in the same category as someone who walks the river.

For one, I'M NOT AN IMMIGRANT!

[SA210]

So, you then admit that this country was founded by immigrants. Finally.

I hope those mojados don't bother you too much, they're just trying to come to America as your ancestors did.

Good night.

[CharlieMac]

I'm gonna hit up Outback on that day.

[Sec24Row7]

No.. This country was founded by people that were born here.

The country was founded upon the adoption of the constitution.

By.. people that were born here.

[gtownspur]

Sa210 thinks that settlements arrived in 1750 and then the "immigrants" settled and then fought for independence.

Ofcourse, in reality, North america had settlers as far back as 1600. THis country was founded on British Citizens who revolted to form their own country. All fair in war and love.

Sorry, but SA210 is a hypocrite. Had we been a nation of chicanos, and it was white immigrants comming, this yap would be opposed to immigration.

[SA210]

Sa210 thinks that settlements arrived in 1750 and then the "immigrants" settled and then fought for independence.

Ofcourse, in reality, North america had settlers as far back as 1600. THis country was founded on British Citizens who revolted to form their own country. All fair in war and love.

Sorry, but SA210 is a hypocrite. Had we been a nation of chicanos, and it was white immigrants comming, this yap would be opposed to immigration.

I'm not opposed to You being here. I'm opposed to keeping other immigrants out and sending them back. They are human.

Funny that You would try and call someone a hypocrite.

[gtownspur]

I'm not opposed to You being here. I'm opposed to keeping other immigrants out and sending them back. They are human.

Funny that You would try and call someone a hypocrite.

They came from Mexico. That's their home. If they break the law, send them back. We are a nation with borders. We cannot let everyone in. That is not sound policy.

Why don't you allow hobos to live in your house. ANd not just one hobo, but put a big sign on your house inviting all hobos to live there. See if after 3, would you be able to support them.

it's the same with illegal immigration. Our country cannot keep on supporting more illegal immigration. We need to enforce our laws.

and yeah, you are a hypocrite.

[gtownspur]

And sorry, i'm not white. I'm Mexican by blood, puta.

Take that and your Testiculos de Javier self.

[SA210]

And sorry, i'm not white. I'm Mexican by blood, puta.

Take that and your Testiculos de Javier self.

I already knew that,

I was being sarcastic,
because how much You don't like being Mexican.


:lmao

[gtownspur]

What are you proud of? You're just a chicano who doesnt know the damn language.
:lmao

SOrry, but you're just a confused mut with a fourth grade knowledge of Mexican culture.

[JoeChalupa]

My grandparents immigrated to this Country and I'm proud to say I am their grandson.
I grew up working in the migrant fields and moved on from there. I'm proud of my heritage and am passing it down to my children. They will hold their heads high and not heed or participate in racial or ethnic hatred.

Unless you were born in the Garden of Eden, we are all immigrants.

[Sec24Row7]

I dunno what it is with you people and the immigrant term:

Stupidity, Stubornness or both but it is clear that if you have never moved to another country, you are not an immigrant.

[SA210]

"you people"?

You are not even worth discussing this with.

[SA210]

Here comes xray to unload his hate.

[xrayzebra]

I know it's a scary word for you guys. But we will show our pride in a Huge way. We will not back off from the hatred and the continuous discrimination, racism and injustices that have been ignored for far too long. Equal rights for all.

Chicanos!! Yes, we are proud and immigrants are humans, as you are also an immigrant. Humans are not illegal. Mexicans should be accepted here just as you are.

Remember,

We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!

What utter nonsense. You sound like a two year old.

[Sec24Row7]

ahahahahaaha!

"You People" would be Sa210 and JoeChalupa on this thread, and anyone else who calls ME an immigrant.

I could give a shit if you were BLUE, you would still be stupid if you called me an immigrant.

[smeagol]

I could give a shit if you were BLUE, you would still be stupid if you called me an immigrant.
Let's call you "Son of an immigrant" (or grandson)

[Sec24Row7]

Dunno... I'm a lot further removed from immigration than that...

Both my mother and father's side of the family had people fighting in the Revolutionary war.

But yeah, somewhere down the line My ancestors were on a boat.

So?

That doesnt make me an immigrant.

[smeagol]

That doesnt make me an immigrant.
I said "Son/granson/great grandson (an so on)" of an immigrant, which I believe is a true statement.

Not that it adds much to the discussion at hand . . . :spin

[SA210]

April 10, 2006, This Monday, Nationwide March

including San Antonio and some 63 different cities across the country.

Will you be there?

http://www.cccaction.org/cccaction/april10_index.html

City: San Antonio
Date: 4/10
Time: 5:00PM
Location: Milam Park
Event Details: TBD
Contact Name: Elisa Gonzalez and Claudia Sanchez
Contact Phone: 210-602-1533 (Elisa) or 210-355-4050 (Claudia)
Contact Email: [email protected] ([email protected]) (Elisa) or [email protected] ([email protected]) (Claudia)

Event Flyer (English) (http://www.fairimmigration.org/press/press_releases/April10_PDF/San%20Antonio/MarchFlyer%20English.pdf)

City: San Antonio
Date: 4/10
Time: 12:00PM walkout, 2:00PM student rally
Location: Campus of the University of Texas-San Antonio - walkout, Milam Park - student rally
Event Details: Student walkout and rally
Contact Name: Bonita, Cristina, Beth, Veronica - Siempre United
Contact Phone:210-269-5595 (Bonita), 210-391-0962 (Cristina), 210-391-0962 (Beth), 210-625-0994 (Veronica)
Contact Email: [email protected] ([email protected])

[Sec24Row7]

I said "Son/granson/great grandson (an so on)" of an immigrant, which I believe is a true statement.

Not that it adds much to the discussion at hand . . . :spin


Well of course... you havent called ME an immigrant. That's the argument, and what "these people" don't understand.

[SA210]

That Is OUR point. You wouldn't be here if it weren't for Those immigrants.
But you know this already.

[Sec24Row7]

No, YOUR point was that I am an immigrant.

That the people who FRAMED the constitution were immigrants.

I'm not and they weren't.

[SA210]

No, YOUR point was that I am an immigrant.

That the people who FRAMED the constitution were immigrants.

I'm not and they weren't.

Right, so if they never came over here in the 1st place, you would still have been born here.

I get it now.

:rolleyes

[SA210]

Sign this petition.
-------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cccaction.org/campaign/april10

April 10 Mobilization for Immigrant Justice

We need your help today to send a powerful message to Washington that immigrants in the United States deserve fair treatment. Tell your Members of Congress now that we need true immigration reform based on the American values we all hold dear. Please join us and sign the petition below.

Tell me more
Send this petition to:
Your Senators

cc: Your Congressperson
Congress should pass real, immigration reform that:

1) respects our values of fairness, hard work and family

2) provides a clear path to earned citizenship

3) fixes America's immigration system to make it safe, legal, and orderly

4) unites families

5) ensures workplace and civil rights protections for everyone

We are opposed to immigration legislation that rejects real solutions in favor of unworkable and immoral rhetoric. Proposals such as arresting and deporting 11 million men, women and children to nations all over the world is simply unworkable and runs counter to the American values we cherish.

America's broken immigration system is not working for new immigrants and citizens alike. It is time for Members of Congress to show real leadership and pass comprehensive immigration reform now.



Signed by:
[Your name]
[Your address]

[Sec24Row7]

I never said that.

When did I ever say that?

You have completely changed gears 5 times in this thread.

[DarkReign]

ZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzZzzzzz...

*yawn*

[SA210]

I never said that.

When did I ever say that?

You have completely changed gears 5 times in this thread.

I haven't changed anything. You understood my point from the beginning. That almost everyone here are immigrants in the sense that almost everyone's ancestors were Not originally from here, therefore You wouldn't be here Now. In that sense, you Are an immigrant in This country whether you want to admit that or not.

But you wanted to use political tactics and argue over technical crap of what "immigrant" means, and that although your ancestors may have once been immigrants (even though you wanted to dance around that, by the way), that the people who wrote the constitution were not immigrants because this and that, and a bunch of baloney.

You understood the point. Immigrants love this country and want the same opportunity as Americans to live here and support their families here, as Your immigrant ancestors have allowed you to do. You would Not be here if it weren't for Your immigrant acestors.

Again, your jibberish is just that, jibberish hate, and you understood what I was talking about.

Now if You believe that; "Yea, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for my immigrant ancestors, but since these people are "mojados", I feel differently about it.", then be man enough to say it.

[Sec24Row7]

No I did not understand the "sense" of what you were trying to say.

If you want to say that everyone that lives here is a descendant of an immigrant, or an immigrant themself(if they actually PERSONALLY came here from somewhere else) that is a perfectly reasonable statement.

What you were saying was not.

As far as the Mojado thing, Nobody can blame anyone for trying to get to a better situation, but the fact remains that we have LAWS and they are being broken.

I have sympathy for their plight, but im not gonna shed a tear if we ship their ass back.

As far as OTM's go, "Other than Mexican" they really scare me.

Really, everyone should be pissed off at Mexico for the conditions that these people are fleeing instead of being pissed off at the people trying to stop illegals from coming.

[dougp]

there are clear and concise terms for obtaining Citizenship, it is done every day. Sure, it takes time, but everything does. You guys are not protesting Anti-Immigration laws, you are being active in supporting illegal immigration. There is a difference, these people break the laws when they trespass on the United States. They may be coming here for a better life, but they are reducing the opportunity for your fellow AMERICANS and strangling our economy by sending the money they obtain back to their home country, whether it be Mexico, Turkey, China or wherever they come from.

It's great you have a love for your heritage, but you are singling out and forcing the issue that we are being oppressive and racist towards the Hispanic culture/race. In reality, if you'd shut the hell up about race and would bust your ass and QUIT bring up race, it will dissapear. But people bring it up all the time ... didn't get a job? OMG IT'S CAUSE I'M HISPANIC. Didn't get the apartment? IT'S BECAUSE I'M BLACK.

You do know that in Texas, Caucasian's are no longer the majority? Remember the big deal with the census last year? Or did you skip that little tidbit of information. My ancestors that came from Ireland were brought into endentured servitude (i.e. selling oneself into slavery for years until debt is paid) because of a famine. I don't show my flag around, and I don't do various other things because I realize that people really don't give a fuck. I don't care that you're Hispanic, African or Russian or whatever. To me, you're an American. Have pride in your country and show the US flag, not the place you're running from because they can't provide you a decent life. SA210, enlighten yourself on the shit you're posting.

IMO, if you support illegal immigration (which you are), you support rapists, murderers, drug users/dealers and anyone else who breaks the law.

[SA210]

there are clear and concise terms for obtaining Citizenship, it is done every day. Sure, it takes time, but everything does. You guys are not protesting Anti-Immigration laws, you are being active in supporting illegal immigration. There is a difference, these people break the laws when they trespass on the United States. They may be coming here for a better life, but they are reducing the opportunity for your fellow AMERICANS and strangling our economy by sending the money they obtain back to their home country, whether it be Mexico, Turkey, China or wherever they come from.

They want their family here too. There are many tests they need to pass to become Americans and they have to know things that Not even Americans know, to obtain citizenship. It's not as easy as you are making it seem.

And the amount of years that it takes is ridiculous considering They are starving Now. Are they going to wait 20 years for Mexico to improve, or wait several years before they legally obtain US citizenship before they feed their family? Of course not, and you would feel the same if your family was in that position.


It's great you have a love for your heritage, but you are singling out and forcing the issue that we are being oppressive and racist towards the Hispanic culture/race. In reality, if you'd shut the hell up about race and would bust your ass and QUIT bring up race, it will dissapear. But people bring it up all the time ... didn't get a job? OMG IT'S CAUSE I'M HISPANIC. Didn't get the apartment? IT'S BECAUSE I'M BLACK.

SecRow is the one who used the racial slurs "wetback" and "mojado". I think you should watch who you tell to shut the hell up and maybe You need to try and understand the REAL issues here. I'm not calling names here and telling people to shut up. You guys get childish pretty quick.


You do know that in Texas, Caucasian's are no longer the majority? Remember the big deal with the census last year? Or did you skip that little tidbit of information.

In what way, shape or form does that prove that there is Not racism or discrimination against minorities?


My ancestors that came from Ireland were brought into endentured servitude (i.e. selling oneself into slavery for years until debt is paid) because of a famine. I don't show my flag around, and I don't do various other things because I realize that people really don't give a fuck. I don't care that you're Hispanic, African or Russian or whatever. To me, you're an American. Have pride in your country and show the US flag, not the place you're running from because they can't provide you a decent life.

This is a great misconception. I can understand the arguement against, about waving the Mexican flag, but people need to understand why Many of them are doing that. Of course there are some that get a little wild, but most are doing it to show support for their people who you all want to stop from coming here and wanting to throw them back to Mexico.

Most are Not doing it out of disrespect to the U.S., they want to live here.
It may seem stupid to you and many, and it may even seem stupid to many latinos here, but we have to understand that it has More to do with them supporting the Mexican immigrants who are Not wanted. That's what the flags are for, whether it's a good choice or not to wave them, that's why they are doing that. So, please stop with this nonsense already, and try and understand what They really mean by it.


SA210, enlighten yourself on the shit you're posting.

Obviously, You are the one that needs to enlighten Yourself on what You post.


IMO, if you support illegal immigration (which you are), you support rapists, murderers, drug users/dealers and anyone else who breaks the law.

This is so ridiculous and really not worth my time, but how can anyone take you seriously with a comment like that? These people are humans. Being human and wanting to feed your family is Not illegal. Raping, murdering, drug using/dealing Is.

Where is the compassion from you guys? Really. Until You and people like You stop the hate and don't want Human unity and have compassion for people who want to feed their families Now, when They need it, then there will continue to be these tensions, whether it be racial or not.

[xrayzebra]

SA210 doing her normal thing. Talking in circles, knowing not what in the
world she is talking about.

Go do your little demonstration on your birthday, along with the rest of the
group, used to be the communist that demonstrated on May day, but you
wouldn't like it if I compared it to that, although most of the organizers are
more than likely socialist, as you are. Now you can accuse me of calling you
names. By the way every heard of the little war we had with Mexico in the
not distant past? The US went all the way the Monterrey, but we gave that
land back. All the other land we won during our war of (Texas) independence,
fair and square. You want to be part of Mexico, just head about 145 miles
south, either on US90 or I-35. Every person who comes to this country
legally is welcome, all that come ilegally can go back home, Mexico or any
other nationality. To hear you, you would think that all of them came from
Mexico, they haven't! But how the hell would you know, you spend most of
your time under a bridge.

[SA210]

SA210 doing her normal thing. Talking in circles, knowing not what in the
world she is talking about.

Go do your little demonstration on your birthday, along with the rest of the
group, used to be the communist that demonstrated on May day, but you
wouldn't like it if I compared it to that, although most of the organizers are
more than likely socialist, as you are. Now you can accuse me of calling you
names. By the way every heard of the little war we had with Mexico in the
not distant past? The US went all the way the Monterrey, but we gave that
land back. All the other land we won during our war of (Texas) independence,
fair and square. You want to be part of Mexico, just head about 145 miles
south, either on US90 or I-35. Every person who comes to this country
legally is welcome, all that come ilegally can go back home, Mexico or any
other nationality. To hear you, you would think that all of them came from
Mexico, they haven't! But how the hell would you know, you spend most of
your time under a bridge.

Xray on one of his little selfish rants.

Hey, Xray, You said you want Your country back.
I read in the other thread that You might be Native American, is that true?

No way.

[MannyIsGod]

The only person making sense in this thread is Scott. Although Eriks' notion to go to outback was quite sensible as well.

[SA210]

Thanks for your approval.

[MannyIsGod]

Look, I'm for a bill that fixes the border AND provides amnesty to the people here because of the economic reality of things, but don't expect me to sit here and say that your approach makes any sense.

Me being of hispanic immigrant herritage does not mean I go blindy along with everything "la raza" says I should.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Look, I'm for a bill that fixes the border AND provides amnesty to the people here because of the economic reality of things, but don't expect me to sit here and say that your approach makes any sense.

Me being of hispanic immigrant herritage does not mean I go blindy along with everything "la raza" says I should.


http://www.primorski.net/coconut%20sorbet.jpg

[Oh, Gee!!]

http://users.adelphia.net/~rains81/images2/pwn3d.jpg

[SA210]

Look, I'm for a bill that fixes the border AND provides amnesty to the people here because of the economic reality of things, but don't expect me to sit here and say that your approach makes any sense.

Me being of hispanic immigrant herritage does not mean I go blindy along with everything "la raza" says I should.
I'll post this in the Club thread as well.
--------------------------------------

And what is my approach Manny?

That I want them to be able to come here and have the same opportunities that we all have? That this country is made up of immigrants? That I'm not blind to the obstacles of obtaining citizenship when these families are hungry right Now? That I'm responding to people trashing the march?

I see your point and Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

That you fall back on approaches that somehow the history of the country makes illegal immigration any less legal. Or that somehow that there are impoverished people to our south somehow negates our right (and desprate NEED) for border security. That approach.

F

[SA210]

That you fall back on approaches that somehow the history of the country makes illegal immigration any less legal. Or that somehow that there are impoverished people to our south somehow negates our right (and desprate NEED) for border security. That approach.

F

Look, I'm out for a cause that I'm very passionate about. You should be too. You are missing the point as well. It's not to say illegal is legal.

It's to show the hypocricy in what people are saying and our history. It does alot of good for You to come in here and claim that I am Not making sense on This board. That is EXACTLY why "La Raza" is so stagnant and why it has been for years, because We can never stand TOGETHER on Anything as Martin Luther King Jr. did with the African American community, to peacefully protest that we be EQUALLY treated.

This is a START for it, NOW, and You come in here and continue the reasons why our race is where it is? There's some sense for you.

Good job brother. Good job.

I'll be at the march.

[Vashner]

Cheech:)
Took a walk to the corner store
Just to buy a loaf of bread and a box of s`mores
Up pulled a guy in a yellow van
Shiny gold badge flashing in his hand

(Chong:)
He said, alright all you mojados down here
I want you all to hit the floor
I got one thing to ask you and nothing more
So answer in English, if you can
Where were ya born, man

(Cheech:)
Huh? Where was I born?

(Chong:)
That`s right, I said
Where were ya born?

(Cheech:)
Hey, are you one of those dudes who do horoscopes, man
Hey, I`m a Cancer with a bad moon rising

(Chong:)
Look here el fago, watch my lips
Where were ya born?

(Cheech:)
I was BORN IN EAST L.A.
Man, I was BORN IN EAST L.A.

(Chong:)
Oh yeah, you were BORN IN EAST L.A.
Let`s see your green card

(Cheech:)
Huh? Green card?
I`m from East LA

(Chong:)
Alright, then who`s President of the United States

(Cheech:)
Oh, that`s easy, man
That guy that used to be on Death Valley Days, John Wayne

(Chong:)
Alright, let`s go, come on

(Cheech:)
Next thing I know, I`m in a foreign land
People talkin so fast, I couldn`t understand
There was nobody there to lend a helping hand
I was cold, it was dark where is a burger stand

I want to go back to East LA
I wish I was back in East LA
I don`t belong here in downtown T.J.
Cause I was born in East LA, ole

I crawled under barbed wire, swam across a stream
Rode in six different trucks packed like a sardine
Walked all day in the burning sun
Now I know what it`s like to be born to run

Up ahead was the promised land
Shining like a star just beyond my hand
All I could see was a golden door
I looked up, a sign said five billion sold

And I was back in East LA
Yes, I was back in East LA
You know I`m never gonna stray
Cause I was born in East LA, oh LA

(adlibs with I'm a low rider rocker in East LA, oh LA)

EAST LA!!!

[Spurminator]

It's to show the hypocricy in what people are saying and our history.

Why does that need to be the message?

I support a reform of the process for gaining citizenship as well. I think the convoluted and needlessly difficult process contributes to the high rate of illegal immigration.

Your message is needlessly belligerent and it implies that you support all forms of immigration, legal or illegal.

[Nbadan]

$215 billion over 5 years to deport Mexicans...


As Congress debates immigration reforms, some experts say the most extreme proposal — deporting millions of illegal immigrants — would be a huge legal and logistical morass, and ruinously expensive, too.

Officials at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which would be responsible for deportations, said they have no projections on what it would take to rid the United States of an estimated 12 million people.

But the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank in Washington, has put the cost at $215 billion over five years.

The study assumed that a crackdown would prompt a quarter of the nation's illegal immigrants to leave voluntarily, leaving 9 million men, women and children to deport.

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060407/ap_on_re_us/immigration_mass_deportation_1)

[SA210]

Why does that need to be the message?

I support a reform of the process for gaining citizenship as well. I think the convoluted and needlessly difficult process contributes to the high rate of illegal immigration.

Your message is needlessly belligerent and it implies that you support all forms of immigration, legal or illegal.
It is not THE message. That's just one reality in this Huge issue.

I imply that I have compassion for them, All immigrants, and I have an understanding for what they are going through.

[MannyIsGod]

It is not THE message. That's just one reality in this Huge issue.

I imply that I have compassion for them, All immigrants, and I have an understanding for what they are going through.As do I and other people, but that doesn't eliminate the need for our national security.

[Spurminator]

It is not THE message. That's just one reality in this Huge issue.

You'd be better served to not even bring it up. Plenty of other "realities" to latch onto that are more relevant to current times.

Good luck at the march.

[Extra Stout]

Look, I'm out for a cause that I'm very passionate about. You should be too. You are missing the point as well. It's not to say illegal is legal.

It's to show the hypocricy in what people are saying and our history. It does alot of good for You to come in here and claim that I am Not making sense on This board. That is EXACTLY why "La Raza" is so stagnant and why it has been for years, because We can never stand TOGETHER on Anything as Martin Luther King Jr. did with the African American community, to peacefully protest that we be EQUALLY treated.

This is a START for it, NOW, and You come in here and continue the reasons why our race is where it is? There's some sense for you.

Good job brother. Good job.

I'll be at the march.
The Latino saga in this country is not the same as the saga of blacks. Blacks were brought over as slaves, and kept as a legally oppressed underclass even after being liberated.

Latinos are immigrants. Their story is quite similar to the story of other immigrant groups, except the scale is much larger. Some of the details even match up. The slur "wop" used for Italian-Americans is an acronym that means "With-Out Papers." And immigrant groupa after group suffered discrimination. The Irish were called "white n*ggers." Then it was the Italians, then the Slavs. Eventually intermarriage blurred the ethnic lines so much that nobody cared anymore.

See, even when Texas belonged to Mexico, the Mexican population in Texas was miniscule. Settlement initiatives were unsuccessful because Mexicans didn't want to deal with the hostile Indian tribes. That's why they invited the American Anglos. The predominance of Anglo culture in Texas is why Santa Anna freaked out and foolishly thought he had to crack down, which ultimately cost him the northern territories over which he never had more than cursory control anyway, except in isolated settlementd like Santa Fe.

This idea that "the border crossed us" is BS. There are a small number of Mexican landowners who were dispossessed when Texas became independent. The vast majority of Latino Texans' ancestors crossed well after 1845. Certainly I hope you are not aggrieved on behalf of the government of Mexico for what happened in 1848. That would make about as much sense as my being aggrieved at the UK for its treatment of the Irish, or at Russia for its domination of Lithuania in the 20th century.

The distinction of Latinos as a separate "race" is arbitrary to begin with. The lines we draw between races are just a social construct anyway (they all blur together at the margins), but in the case of Latinos, whose ancestors arrived in this country with a lineage that on average is half Southern European, with a Southern European language, and a majority religion that sprouted from Southern Europe, it's especially arbitrary.

[Nbadan]

Very nice history lesson, except you left out the part where those Indian tribes that were scaring away Mexican settlers from settling in the Northern hemisphere didn't just vanish. Many of those nomadic tribes merged with Mexico, because they weren't hunted down by the U.S. Cavalry. This is why border Mexican's resemble Native American Indians and Southern Mexicans resemble Spanish Europeans. So, the people we are really fighting to keep out, if truth be told, are the real decendents or our original ancestors.

[Nbadan]

Ya know, this battle over the American and Spanish flags isn't about national sovereignity to most Latinos, at least, not as much as it appears to be for most non-hispanic Americans who don't understand the images of the demonstrators waving Mexican flags. No one is expecting Mexico to annex Southern California or Texas, if the illegals wanted that, they would have stayed in Mexico. It's about showing pride in one's culture and respecting their heritage. That in itself is a concept most Americans struggle to understand because they have become so 'Americanized'.

Most American of Mexican desent favor stronger border policies, but at the same time they don't wanna see mass trials and deportation of hispanic people that the Congress currently seems to be favoring. That could put the hispanic population, which could swing Southern states in future elections, at direct odds with Conservative policies involving illegal immigration unless there is some sort of blanket amnesty for the majority of illegal aliens already in the U.S., which is very, very unlikely considering this is why the Senate compromise bill (McCain/Kennedy) got struck down.

[Nbadan]

Group wants illegal immigrants' `anchor' citizenship removed
KELLI HEWETT TAYLOR
News staff writer


The Alabama Federation of Republican Women wants to take away the citizenship of babies born to illegal immigrants in the United States, and the group is using baby dolls to make the point.

The members have dressed the dolls with handmade oil-cloth bibs proclaiming "$118 Billion Anchor Baby." The figure illustrates an estimate of the annual cost to provide government services, such as food, education and health care, to these families, according to the group's research.

Any child born on American soil is automatically a U.S. citizen under the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. To change that, a bill to amend the Constitution would have to pass by a two-thirds majority in the House and the Senate, and then be presented to the states for approval.

Those U.S.-born babies are sometimes called "anchors" for their role in securing an illegal immigrant family's stay in the country. However, the babies don't mean automatic citizenship for the parents.

Al.com (http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/11444019328520.xml&coll=2)

Could Southern states become the future care-takers of millions of abandoned anchor-babies?

[Juice]

Have you guys seen these video?


Costa Mesa City Council (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ANH_Z0Uzc)

and

Illegal Immigrants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DHMxeXOgR8)

[xrayzebra]

Harry Reid has done his regular, same old dimm thing. My way or the highway, no
amendments to our plan (dimm-0-craps). Same tune, different day. Nothing is
going to get done. SA210 you can stay home, no bill is going to get out of
Congress and no enforcement will be forthcoming from INS because of Congressional
pressure. The ILLEGALS will continue to come, wages will continue to be depressed,
the dimms will be happy for the votes in South Texas and elsewhere and all I can
say, watch yourself in the malls, because others are coming with them that want
to do harm to our country. People like SA210 can feel relieved, because they
will feel a victory, but not help those left in Mexico or bring any pressure to bear
on the government that causes people to flee their own country for a better
life. But they feel their pain and that is sufficient to ease their tortured souls.
And will be able to beat their chest and say: "I stood with them, the poor from
Mexico that were just looking for a better life." Viva Mexico!

[xrayzebra]

E pluribus unum?

By Mark M. Alexander

Apr 7, 2006

"[T]he policy or advantage of [immigration] taking place in a body may be much questioned; for, by so doing, they retain the Language, habits and principles which they bring with them. Whereas by an intermixture with our people, they, or their descendants, get assimilated to our customs, measures and laws: in a word, soon become one people." --George Washington

Out of many, one.

That was the national motto proposed by Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson in 1776. Both simple and elegant, it embodied the notion that all who had come to America's shores, andall who would come, must be united -- must all form one front -- in defense of freedom and liberty. For 200 years, we were, largely, one people united behind constitutional republicanism. But soon after the social turbulence of the '60s and the economic woes of the '70s, that unity began to crumble. This was the era in which multiculturalism emerged -- the era in which ethnocentricity became chic.

Arthur Schlesinger, a former Harvard professor and senior advisor to JFK, published a retrospective on this era in 1991 called "The Disuniting of America." Schlesinger wrote primarily about the orthodoxy of self-interested hyphenated-American citizen groups -- who, rather than unifying to become one, were diversifying to become many.[/] He warned that the cult of ethnicity would result in [b]"the fragmentation and tribalization of America,"the natural consequence being that these special-interest groups would be co-opted by the political parties.

"Instead of a transformative nation with an identity all its own," Schlesinger wrote, "America increasingly sees itself in this new light as preservative of diverse alien identities -- groups ineradicable in their ethnic character." He asserts, by way of inquiry, "Will the melting pot give way to the Tower of Babel?"

The disuniting of America is a foundational concern underlying much of the current security, economic and social debate (both rational and irrational) about immigration. This is the concern that a nation, which is already ethnically fragmented internally, risks complete disunity of its national integrity in the absence of borders.

It is clear that the overwhelming majority of Americans are rightfully adamant about many immigration issues: strict border security and enforcement; automatic detention and deportation of illegals; no extension of amnesty or fast-track citizenship for illegals; preservation of our tax-subsidized medical, educational and social services for American citizens and documented immigrants; strong penalties against employers who hire undocumented migrant workers; and "Americanization" of new legal immigrants -- rather than the ill-conceived provisions of bilingual schools and government services which, in effect, dissuade immigrant integration.

We are also resolute in our rejection of birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens, though this right is assured by our Constitution's 14th Amendment. However, at the time of this Amendment, there was no provision distinguishing legal and illegal immigration. In other words, legislation outlawing this birthright for illegal aliens might well pass the Constitutional test.

On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of Americans don't want to pay $15 for a head of lettuce, wash our own restaurant dishes or launder our own sheets and towels when traveling. In addition, we would much rather somebody else take on laborious low-skilled and low-paying occupations like landscaping and construction. Currently, there are 10 to 15 million illegal aliens in the United States. Only one president in four decades, George W. Bush, has dared make reconciling this issue a central administration objective. This is because the issue has no clear political consensus.

The only contemporary comparison to the cross-party divisiveness of immigration is the recent debate over Dubai Ports World management of U.S. port terminals. You'll recall that this issue pitted the President and his national-security team against disingenuous Democrats eager to appear tough on national security, weak-kneed Republicans unwilling to stand on principle in an election year and an American public fully caught up in the moment.

However, while the Dubai Ports debacle was clearly manufactured by opportunists in both parties, the immigration debate is all too real -- this isn't just another flash in the political pan.

President Bush has charged Congress with taking up this complex issue.

The House has already approved the Sensenbrenner immigration legislation, which essentially proposes to round up all illegals and drop them at the border, and criminalize anyone who had anything to do with them in the interim. This plan leaves one to ponder whether such tough-minded reform was spun out of xenophobic angst, or was merely a byproduct of everyday American nativism. The Sensenbrenner plan does not have a critical provision for guest workers, and is largely unenforceable -- or, if enforced, largely unaffordable. But it plays well with the same constituency that believed the Dubai Ports folks were really interested in smuggling nuclear bombs into the U.S.

Worse, the Senate compromise bill would provide illegals amnesty [read: fast-track citizenship] rather than guest-worker status if they have been in the country for five years and do not have a criminal record -- other than the misdemeanor crime of crossing the border illegally. This proposal should be a deal-breaker for any legislation. If here for less than five years, they would have to apply at one of 16 designated ports of entry for a new temporary "guest worker" visa for low and unskilled workers.

The House Bill makes no provision for amnesty, which is good, but it also makes no provision for guest-worker permits, which is, well, asinine. Of course, the assumption is that when the House and Senate bills are reconciled in conference, the House wants to start the negotiation on guest workers at zero. Unfortunately, there is some public confusion between "amnesty" and "guest worker" -- the latter being both desirable and essential to the U.S. economy.

Of course, every member of the House and Senate is mindful of the fact that there are millions of American voters of Hispanic origin -- eight percent of the electorate -- which is a significant factor in how this legislation will be framed.

To debate this issue meaningfully, however, one must first survey the facts regarding the security, economic and social implications of immigration.

Security Concerns...

In any discussion about immigration, border security must come first. Even if Mr. Sensenbrenner can find a way to round up all undocumented Hispanic immigrants and deport them, they'll all be back in a few days unless we can establish some real border security. Clearly, this would entail both a physical barrier and enough security personnel to enforce both border and internal immigration regulations.

A formidable security wall along our border with Mexico would also provide a measure of safety against terrorist incursions, but there are already serious security problems brewing within our borders.

In our current state of ethnocentric disunity, we tolerate cadres of radical Hispanic identity groups composed of both naturalized immigrants and illegal aliens. These groups provided the ethnic incitement behind last month's half-million-strong protests in Los Angeles and other cities from coast to coast. These were protests not just on behalf of immigrant "rights"; for many, they were a means of promoting the reunification of the southwestern United States with Mexico. This "reconquista" movement is marked by the flying of the Mexican flag over the American flag.

The Hispanic reconquest movement is on the verge of violent nationalism -- if it hasn't already become just that -- with all its terrorist implications. If they do in fact resort to violence, all bets are off in regards to the status, guest worker or otherwise, of any illegal alien in this country from south of the border.

Economic Concerns...

The essential protectionist argument against the provision of guest-worker permits is that these workers take jobs away from Americans and reduce wages for everyone. There is, however, little factual basis for those arguments. As Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey was fond of noting, "Demagoguery beats data." In other words, an emotional rant tends to be louder than a reasoned analysis.

With U.S. unemployment now at 4.8 percent (with most of these being the chronically unemployable), we need immigrant workers regardless of the ruckus that protectionists might raise. Indeed, most of the jobs performed by immigrant labor are low wage -- but few U.S. citizens are lining up for those jobs. Low wages reduce the cost of products and services provided, thus reducing the cost of living for consumers. The alternative is plain to see: a lower stander of living and higher inflation.

David Card, professor of economics at UC Berkeley, compared wages nationally and found that high-school dropouts in cities with an abundance of immigrants performing low-wage jobs are no worse off.

Further, immigrant labor isn't just a policy, as some have suggested, of creating poverty in America while alleviating it in Mexico and elsewhere. Greater prosperity in Mexico means greater security in the United States. NAFTA has helped, but that's just the start. North America's transportation infrastructure must be improved and extended farther south in Mexico, bringing the prosperity enjoyed under NAFTA in the north to more of the country's citizens. Similar principles apply to our CAFTA partners.

The overall economic prosperity resulting from free-trade agreements, including job in-sourcing and outsourcing, creates hardships for some Americans while creating opportunity for others. This provides little solace to those whose financial security is threatened by free trade, but the fact is that most Americans benefit from free trade.

Once again, the economic protectionists are wrong -- and European economies are proving it. In a recent speech to the European Parliament, British Prime Minister Tony Blair criticized Western European economies for their unwillingness to compete on a global level: "What type of social model is it that has 20 million unemployed in Europe? Productivity rates falling behind those of the USA? That, on any relative index of a modern economy -- skills, R&D, patents, information technology -- is going down, not up."

Of course, there are other economic concerns, particularly the cost of social services for illegal aliens -- which are enormous. The most costly of these social services are education, healthcare, housing and criminal incarceration. In 1994, California passed Proposition 187 to stop the hemorrhage of tax dollars for services to illegal aliens. Unfortunately, the federal courts struck down the law.

Social Concerns...

How does a nation that has institutionalized ethnic disunity integrate millions of immigrants?

In 1919, Theodore Roosevelt penned these words:

In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.

Unfortunately, the Left has spent four decades hyphenating and disenfranchising every ethnic group it can in order to create special-interest constituencies. Challenging this disunity exposes one to substantial ridicule -- claims of intolerance, bigotry and jingoism. Yet these subcultures, including immigrants, fail to become properly integrated into civil society.

We are now beginning to bear the social consequences of multicultural politicization in both American and immigrant minority populations. "Progressive" policies -- bilingual education being the worst offender -- have the effect of insulating and ultimately ghettoizing otherwise hardworking and well-intentioned immigrants. For fear of appearing "culturally imperialistic" by forcing newcomers to learn our language, history and laws, we've condemned them to permanent impoverishment. But then, such policies have always bred Democrat votes.

Conclusion...

The Patriot has always endorsed the measures we mentioned earlier: strict border security and enforcement; automatic detention and deportation; no extension of amnesty or fast-track citizenship; preservation of our tax-subsidized medical, educational and social services for American citizens and documented immigrants; strong penalties against employers who hire illegals; and Americanization of new legal immigrants. We are also resolute in our rejection of birthright citizenship for children of undocumented immigrants, and we support legislation to that end.

Additionally, we strongly endorse free enterprise and free trade, including the regulated in-sourcing of low-skill labor through time-limited guest-worker visas.

As a nation, our biggest hurdles will be creating a guest worker program with functional status verification to register between five and ten million guest workers; providing the personnel for document authentication and enforcement for those workers; and establishing a secure border with Mexico.

However, will Congress demand enforcement at the border and in the workplace? The 1986 Simpson-Mazzoli bill enacted a ten-thousand dollar fine and up to a year in prison for hiring an illegal alien, but after three arrests, Congress directed the Justice Department not to prosecute infractions of this law.

As always, The Patriot advocates for the restoration of American principles and the adoption of those principles by all who seek to be called "American."

Will we ever again be a nation committed to the principle of E pluribus unum? Perhaps. In 1956, the 84th Congress declared our official national motto to be "In God we trust." This motto is especially instructive amid all the current political pandemonium, for only through God can we all truly become one.

Mark Alexander is executive editor and publisher of The Patriot Post, the Web's "Conservative E-Journal of Record." You may contact him here.

Copyright © 2006 Townhall.com

Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/markalexander/2006/04/07/193038.html

[Extra Stout]

Very nice history lesson, except you left out the part where those Indian tribes that were scaring away Mexican settlers from settling in the Northern hemisphere didn't just vanish. Many of those nomadic tribes merged with Mexico, because they weren't hunted down by the U.S. Cavalry. This is why border Mexican's resemble Native American Indians and Southern Mexicans resemble Spanish Europeans. So, the people we are really fighting to keep out, if truth be told, are the real decendents or our original ancestors.
What you state is false.

The aggressive tribes were Comanche and Apache. The tribe that has yielded most of the mestizos along Mexico's impoverished, desertic border with Texas was the Coahuiltecans, from which the Mexican state of Coahuila gets its name.

The Coahuiltecans somehwat willingly submitted to Spanish domination for protection from the raiding Plains tribes. Their culture and way of life pretty much has vanished.

And the last time I was in southern Mexico, there were a lot of mestizos there, too.

But, nice try.

[Guru of Nothing]

Note to self: Learn to speak Chinese.

[billboardbill]

WE NEED TO VOTE SOME PEOPLE INTO OUR GOVERNMENT THAT CARE ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
( Whether you agree or not , this is something to think about )



Mexico's Declaration of War on America
By Frosty Wooldridge
March 20, 2006
NewsWithViews.com

In 1836, legends Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie and William Travis, along with
180 fearless men, fought Santa Anna’s two thousand Mexican troops at the
Alamo in San Antonio, Texas. No contest! Santa Anna killed every last
one of those brave men. Six weeks later, with a cry of “Remember the
Alamo”, Texans beat back the Mexican army and established Texas as part
of the United States of America.

Today, Mexico’s declaration of war on America moves with quickening
speed. Their modern day general known as President Vicente Fox is not
content with retaking Texas. He invades all American states.

As a premier, many of you watch the History Channel with WWII footage
showing Germans and their tanks charging into Poland. You watched their
tanks crush the French.

Did any of you watch the 100,000 illegal Mexicans and others storm
Chicago, Illinois March 10, 2006? How many Mexica insurgents stand on
American soil? At last count, in excess of 9,000,000 illegal Mexicans!
It’s the largest invasion force without firing a shot EVER on American
soil.

This invasion is encouraged, abetted and organized by the Mexican state
and supported by all citizens in Mexican society. Fox provides his
‘troops’ with maps, water, provisions and aid to invade America’s border.

What are the desires of Mexico? Lawrence Auster, in his “The Second
Mexican War” February 17, 2006, wrote, “In orchestrating this war on
America, the Mexican state represents the desires of the Mexican people
as a whole:

Political revanchism*to regain control of the territories lost to the
U.S. in 1848, thus avenging themselves for the humiliation they feel
they suffered at our hands for the last century and a half; In effect,
Mexico is colonizing the United States. Cultural imperialism*to expand
the Mexican culture and Spanish language into North America. They
destroy English as America’s language. Economic parasitism*to maintain
and increase the flow of $20 billion dollars that Mexicans in the U.S.
send back to their relatives at home every year, a major factor keeping
the chronically troubled Mexican economy afloat and the corrupt Mexican
system cocooned in its status quo.” They use us against ourselves to
benefit themselves.

Americans watch a peaceful invasion and the most profound colonization
in modern history. Carlos de Mola for Mexico’s Excelsior Newspaper said,
“You cannot give me a similar example of such a large migratory wave of
an ant-like multitude, stubborn, unarmed and carried on in the face of
the most powerful and best-armed nation on earth…it is slowly returning
the southwestern U.S. to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a
single shot nor requiring the least diplomatic action, by means of a
steady, spontaneous and uninterrupted occupation.”

What you’re watching*and most Americans only keep watching without a
whimper*the takeover of America by a foreign country by colonization.

One of Fox’s cabinet officers, Juan Hernandez said, “The Mexican
population is 100 million and 23 million who live in the United States.”

Heather MacDonald, in the City Journal, Fall 2005, wrote, “Mexico’s
five-year development plan in 1995 announced that the ‘Mexican nation
extends its border into the United States. The government would
strengthen solidarity programs with the Mexican communities abroad by
emphasizing their Mexican roots, and supporting literacy programs in
Spanish and teaching of the history, values and traditions of Mexico to
those Mexicans living in the United States. We are betting the Mexican
population in the U.S. will think Mexico first.’”

Not only are they invading America in numbers and language, they
financially bleed Americans of jobs, depress wages and send money to
Mexico. In time, they will be able to deny authority of American law
because they will vote against American laws and/or change them to fit
their purposes.

A simple look at what happened in Chicago a week ago portends violent
confrontations in the future. We allow the complete surrender of U.S.
sovereignty over our immigration policy. Fox loves it as his
‘insurgents’ grow by three million annually on U.S. soil. (source: Time
Magazine, September 20, 2004! , America’s Broken Borders)

Auster wrote, “Hitler pursed ‘Anschluss’, the joining together of the
Germans in Austria with the Germans in Germany leading the official
annexation of Austria to Germany. Mexico’s equivalent is ‘acercamiento’
which means ‘warmer relations’ to act as a unified block to advance
Mexico’s interests inside the U.S. and…weakening of U.S. immigration
law. Thus, the Mexican government is using the Mexican U.S. population
as a fifth column.”

As you can see, we allow 56 Mexican consulates in major cities
throughout America to foster this invasion with help and guidance inside
the belly of America. Those consulates distribute ‘Guia del Migrante
Mexicano’ which is a guide for illegals to further imbed themselves into
America without getting caught.

Auster wrote, “It has been proposed that Mexicans in the U.S. vote in
Mexican elections. California Mexicans would have seats in the Mexican
Congress, specifically representing Mexicans residing in that state. One
of Mexico’s three major parties, the PRD, urges the designation of the entire
United States as the sixth Mexican electoral district.”

Winston Churchill wrote in his “Follies of the Victors,” that the
Germans were given a ‘motive’ for revenge; later, an opportunity to
strike back. By the same stroke of history, the U.S. gave Mexico a
‘motive’ in 1848, and today, an ‘opportunity’ by allowing mass
migration. In other words, we gave Fox this opportunity; he took it and
now General Fox dictates terms to us. Who are his generals?
Specifically--U.S. Congressman Joe Baca in California works for
‘Reconquista de Aztlan’ along with Mayor Villaraigosa of Los Angeles,
U.S. Congressman Chris Cannon of Utah and dozens of others on U.S. soil.
Not only that, he can count on an American foot soldier George Bush and
most of the U.S. Congress. Fox counts on the silence of U.S. governors
in all 50 states. Who are his foot soldiers? Nine million Mexicans
spread across 49 states and growing!

If the guest worker program passes this month, you're looking at adding
60 million Mexicans to America within 10 years. Over 18 million will be
Spanish speaking children flooding our schools. Yes, if even half those
12 million illegal Mexicans bring in six million wives under Specter’s
or Kennedy’s guest worker programs, those wives will bring at least
three children each. Thus, you're looking at 18 million more kids within a
heartbeat in time*hitting our schools. If even half the single
Mexicans have one child each in ten years, we’re talking six million
more kids. This is war and colonization under the name of immigration.

Americans, what are you going to do about it? All I can say is,
“Remember the Alamo!”

© 2006 Frosty Wooldridge - All Rights Reserved

Frosty Wooldridge -- Mexico's War on America
< http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty137.htm>

[Spurminator]

Is that a joke?

[ChumpDumper]

Frosty?

[MannyIsGod]

Man, there should be an IQ requirement for procreation. Fuck liberties, I'm tired of stupid ass people.

[Extra Stout]

WE NEED TO VOTE SOME PEOPLE INTO OUR GOVERNMENT THAT CARE ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
( Whether you agree or not , this is something to think about )

:rolleyes

I mean, seriously.

I repeat my earlier proposal. For every Mexican immigrant coming north, we should send Mexico a redneck and thereby double our gain.

[xrayzebra]

Man, there should be an IQ requirement for procreation. Fuck liberties, I'm tired of stupid ass people.

Be happy there isn't Manny, you wouldn't be here.

[xrayzebra]

:rolleyes

I mean, seriously.

I repeat my earlier proposal. For every Mexican immigrant coming north, we should send Mexico a redneck and thereby double our gain.


You are a sorry excuse of a person ES, just because you don't
agree with someone you start putting them down.

What is wrong with People of the United States wanting
Congress to do their job? This is wrong? We do need
people up there that consider the country not some damn
group that says they want vote for them if they do
something they don't like. You think it is nothing that
we have 12 million Illegal people in this country and
Congress wants to just say, we cant do anything about it.

Tell you what, if the "rednecks" of which some of you speak
sending to Mexico started waving the U.S. Flag, speaking
English and demanding rights, how long before the
Federal Police would put a bullet in their head?

Illegal is illegal, whether you like it or not. And I don't like the fact we have that many here and Congress will not even enforce the laws on the books.

I have said it before, those that come to this country
legally and want to be part of the American society and
not bring their own, they are welcome, all the rest can
go back from where they came.

Now, you can continue your little childish game of name
calling.

[Extra Stout]

You are a sorry excuse of a person ES, just because you don't
agree with someone you start putting them down.

What is wrong with People of the United States wanting
Congress to do their job? This is wrong? We do need
people up there that consider the country not some damn
group that says they want vote for them if they do
something they don't like. You think it is nothing that
we have 12 million Illegal people in this country and
Congress wants to just say, we cant do anything about it.

Tell you what, if the "rednecks" of which some of you speak
sending to Mexico started waving the U.S. Flag, speaking
English and demanding rights, how long before the
Federal Police would put a bullet in their head?

Illegal is illegal, whether you like it or not. And I don't like the fact we have that many here and Congress will not even enforce the laws on the books.

I have said it before, those that come to this country
legally and want to be part of the American society and
not bring their own, they are welcome, all the rest can
go back from where they came.

Now, you can continue your little childish game of name
calling.
You like to "tell it like it is," huh? Well, sorry, but you're the most full of shit old codger there is. You'd think you'd have lived long enough to understand our immigration "policy" over the past however many decades.

In this country, we need a whole bunch of labor from Mexico for various purposes. Always have. We've had "guest worker" programs dating back to the 1930's and maybe even earlier. It makes business happy. But racists won't tolerate increasing immigration quotas. So we have this song and dance where we have a meager number of "legal" immigrants, officials look the other way at the border, and every so often offer "amnesty" when theose folks who have been here for a certain time.

The only time is becomes an issue is in an a election year. Next year, it will go back to the same as it ever was. Speeding is enforced more heavily than immigration from Mexico.

You've got your mind made up that Congress is sitting on its hands because people are afraid of the Hispanic lobby or something. WRONG. ONLY the nativist wing of the Republican Party, maybe 1/3 of the party, is hard-line on immigration. It's the 1/3 of the party that was Democrat 50 years ago.

So tell me, if Congress were to say "OK, let's increase the number of Mexican immigrants we let in by millions, to give a more realistic tally of the demand for labor," you'd be OK with it? It would be "legal" then? Or would you go ballistic, screaming "I want my country back!!!" Yeah, I thought so.

No, sorry, Congress **CAN'T** do anything about 12 million illegal aliens, even if they cared about it. Do you think the American people want to spend the tax money to sift out the illegals from the illegals and rent all the busses in the world to deport them, only to have them back in three days? Do you realize how absurdly expensive that would be, only to make some arcane "point" about laws that are only there as a joke played on people like you?

And for whatever your point is about rednecks, actually there's a bustling community of white polygamists in Mexico. They've retained all their American customs, and the government pretty much leaves them alone.

And, please, just shut your trap about name-calling, Mister "dimm-o-crap." It's all fun and games except when it gets turned on you, right bitch?

[Brodels]

Illegal is illegal, whether you like it or not. And I don't like the fact we have that many here and Congress will not even enforce the laws on the books.

If it's now the responsibility of congress to enforce laws, I, for one, won't worry about speeding any longer.

[xrayzebra]

You like to "tell it like it is," huh? Well, sorry, but you're the most full of shit old codger there is. You'd think you'd have lived long enough to understand our immigration "policy" over the past however many decades.

In this country, we need a whole bunch of labor from Mexico for various purposes. Always have. We've had "guest worker" programs dating back to the 1930's and maybe even earlier. It makes business happy. But racists won't tolerate increasing immigration quotas. So we have this song and dance where we have a meager number of "legal" immigrants, officials look the other way at the border, and every so often offer "amnesty" when those folks who have been here for a certain time.

The only time is becomes an issue is in an a election year. Next year, it will go back to the same as it ever was. Speeding is enforced more heavily than immigration from Mexico.

You've got your mind made up that Congress is sitting on its hands because people are afraid of the Hispanic lobby or something. WRONG. ONLY the nativist wing of the Republican Party, maybe 1/3 of the party, is hard-line on immigration. It's the 1/3 of the party that was Democrat 50 years ago.

So tell me, if Congress were to say "OK, let's increase the number of Mexican immigrants we let in by millions, to give a more realistic tally of the demand for labor," you'd be OK with it? It would be "legal" then? Or would you go ballistic, screaming "I want my country back!!!" Yeah, I thought so.

No, sorry, Congress **CAN'T** do anything about 12 million illegal aliens, even if they cared about it. Do you think the American people want to spend the tax money to sift out the illegals from the illegals and rent all the busses in the world to deport them, only to have them back in three days? Do you realize how absurdly expensive that would be, only to make some arcane "point" about laws that are only there as a joke played on people like you?

And for whatever your point is about rednecks, actually there's a bustling community of white polygamists in Mexico. They've retained all their American customs, and the government pretty much leaves them alone.

And, please, just shut your trap about name-calling, Mister "dimm-o-crap." It's all fun and games except when it gets turned on you, right bitch?

Have a good day, you have no idea of what the real world is like. I love
the point you make: "arcane "point" about laws that are only there as a joke
played on people you?" You really believe that, except, laws are laws and
without them we are no better than animals.

And yes I would accept "orderly" immigration from any land. But
Illegal is not orderly or legal and very expensive on the American taxpayer.
Waving anyone's flag, other than our own, is stupid and intimidating to
many. But you will not agree with that. The only thing we can agree on
is to disagree and that you love to attempt to put me down, first by
referring to my age, while you on the other hand call me a redneck, when
I have called no one names, unless you think illegal is name calling.
Enjoy your little childish game, you are not the first, nor last, to attempt
to silence those who oppose your views. Dimm-o-crap is a descriptive
word describing those who pose as Democrats.

[mookie2001]

Waving anyone's flag, other than our own, is stupid and intimidating
there should be some law against it actually, you know...to show how american we are

[ChumpDumper]

Waving anyone's flag, other than our own, is stupid and intimidating to
many.Like those goddam traitors at the St. Patrick's Day Parade!

[Extra Stout]

Like those goddam traitors at the St. Patrick's Day Parade!
And the Columbus Day Parade! And Oktoberfest!

[smeagol]

Who many times and by how many posters has xray been owned in this thread?

[Sec24Row7]

I'm guessing May 1st would be a bad day to choose to go eat Mexican food.

[Sec24Row7]

You like to "tell it like it is," huh? Well, sorry, but you're the most full of shit old codger there is. You'd think you'd have lived long enough to understand our immigration "policy" over the past however many decades.

In this country, we need a whole bunch of labor from Mexico for various purposes. Always have. We've had "guest worker" programs dating back to the 1930's and maybe even earlier. It makes business happy. But racists won't tolerate increasing immigration quotas. So we have this song and dance where we have a meager number of "legal" immigrants, officials look the other way at the border, and every so often offer "amnesty" when theose folks who have been here for a certain time.

The only time is becomes an issue is in an a election year. Next year, it will go back to the same as it ever was. Speeding is enforced more heavily than immigration from Mexico.

You've got your mind made up that Congress is sitting on its hands because people are afraid of the Hispanic lobby or something. WRONG. ONLY the nativist wing of the Republican Party, maybe 1/3 of the party, is hard-line on immigration. It's the 1/3 of the party that was Democrat 50 years ago.

So tell me, if Congress were to say "OK, let's increase the number of Mexican immigrants we let in by millions, to give a more realistic tally of the demand for labor," you'd be OK with it? It would be "legal" then? Or would you go ballistic, screaming "I want my country back!!!" Yeah, I thought so.

No, sorry, Congress **CAN'T** do anything about 12 million illegal aliens, even if they cared about it. Do you think the American people want to spend the tax money to sift out the illegals from the illegals and rent all the busses in the world to deport them, only to have them back in three days? Do you realize how absurdly expensive that would be, only to make some arcane "point" about laws that are only there as a joke played on people like you?

And for whatever your point is about rednecks, actually there's a bustling community of white polygamists in Mexico. They've retained all their American customs, and the government pretty much leaves them alone.

And, please, just shut your trap about name-calling, Mister "dimm-o-crap." It's all fun and games except when it gets turned on you, right bitch?

I'd be all for opening the floodgates if for every legal immigrant you brought in, you would throw out a Teamster or etc.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

This idea that "the border crossed us" is BS. There are a small number of Mexican landowners who were dispossessed when Texas became independent. The vast majority of Latino Texans' ancestors crossed well after 1845. Certainly I hope you are not aggrieved on behalf of the government of Mexico for what happened in 1848. That would make about as much sense as my being aggrieved at the UK for its treatment of the Irish, or at Russia for its domination of Lithuania in the 20th century.



And you know that with 100% authority, for no other reason at all except that you are Extra Stout, master of all knowledge in all things.

[Sec24Row7]

The reason that the numbers of Mexican landowners who were disposessed of their land is relatively small is because many sided with the Anglos, and there werent just that many of them to begin with.


Go look at a land map of deep south texas... Hidalgo, Starr, etc and you can still see the relics of the Spanish land grant in "Porciones".

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The reason that the numbers of Mexican landowners who were disposessed of their land is relatively small is because many sided with the Anglos, and there werent just that many of them to begin with.


Go look at a land map of deep south texas... Hidalgo, Starr, etc and you can still see the relics of the Spanish land grant in "Porciones".


Okay, i'll look at this map you speak of. Say, by the way, before I take a gander at it, care to tell me who made this map?

Or better yet--Who wrote the land ownership records, who documented the whole of land transitions and acquisitions in former Mexico as we see them today?

[Sec24Row7]

Okay, i'll look at this map you speak of. Say, by the way, before I take a gander at it, care to tell me who made this map?

Or better yet--Who wrote the land ownership records, who documented the whole of land transitions and acquisitions in former Mexico as we see them today?


I'm sure it was documented by the Texas Republican government and then their records were accepted and modified in 1845 by the US government. Today the state keeps land ownership records and uses "sections" as units for most of the state (this is a square mile/640 acres) but for some of south Texas the Original Porciones are still used.

I actually know people who have ranches that originated as Spanish Land grants to their ancestors.

[gtownspur]

And the Columbus Day Parade! And Oktoberfest!


i hate defending the old fart, but he's not complaining about "mesicans" waving their flags on cinco de mayo, but at rallies demanding that we don't enforce our laws and that they are here to stay. SO spare us you're two cent sarcasm.

As for his point, its that even though we've had worker programs since the 30's, there will be a time when we cannot support a large underclass, who is taking it's toll on healthcare and social programs.

We are a nation of borders, and there's a reason why the law is on the books. We cannot support every single person coming in roughshod into our shores and borders.

To deport them would be drastic, but we need to actually start massive deportations to send a message that we actually are serious. OR else why else do we have a fucking agency down south that acts more like a host for a labor sweepstakes than an immigration enforcerer.

LEt me ask you something, what happens if we start all of the sudden recieving more cuban immigrants, do you think the democrats wont think twice about using the ins to send them back? they did that to Elian.

And what if all of the sudden we start having a massive flooding of Indian nationals and Arabs come to this country and totally wipe out americans from computer industries to management and other white collar jobs, because they are willing to work for less. It's happening in Europe, and they are now having problems with assimilation. Look at france for example. ANd don't think that we are far off.

Look at houston texas, if one visits there one will subtley notice that we have an illegal immigration problem with Vietnamese, thai, laotian and many other ethnic asians. If we start having a large influx of asian immigrants, it will be the mexican lobby who will complain about the problem since they will have to compete with the vietnamese ultra cheap labor force.


I mean, why should we have laws? Why should we care that are hospital bills are going up and that the medical industry and hmo's are under financial stress, and that our prison populations are humongous. 29 percent of the prison population is illegal.

Not to mention, Los angeles. They have a huge never ending gang problem because of all the salvadorean and mexican illegals coming in and having no place to turn to in those streets.

[ChumpDumper]

LEt me ask you something, what happens if we start all of the sudden recieving more cuban immigrants, do you think the democrats wont think twice about using the ins to send them back?Cubans are already given special status, so that's a poor example. You might want to google "Mariel boat lift" to see what Democrats did with 125,000 Cubans in one summer.

[mookie2001]

I actually know people who have ranches that originated as Spanish Land grants to their ancestors.I actually have greatgrandparents, whose settled family land was taken from a very well known south texas oil, ranching and business family in early 1900s because they were "mexican" and the land had oil and was benefitial to their ranching operations
not one fucking thing was done, a lawsuit that lasted 70 years and died nowhere
the family name gets put on everything down here, the halls i walked in school, half the mansions, the donations, the benefactors in this city and thats how they made their fortune
shameful

cbfs family too

[SA210]

March today!

[xrayzebra]

Who many times and by how many posters has xray been owned in this thread?

No one owns this old man. And no man should be owned.

And for those who think displaying a flag during a celebration is equal to
one demonstrating against ones government, you show your idiocy.

[SA210]

No one owns this old man. And no man should be owned.

And for those who think displaying a flag during a celebration is equal to
one demonstrating against ones government, you show your idiocy.
xray, I said this earlier on this subject.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"waving the mexican flag"

This is a great misconception. I can understand the arguement against, about waving the Mexican flag, but people need to understand why Many of them are doing that. Of course there are some that get a little wild, but most are doing it to show support for their people who you all want to stop from coming here and wanting to throw them back to Mexico.

Most are Not doing it out of disrespect to the U.S., they want to live here.
It may seem stupid to you and many, and it may even seem stupid to many latinos here, but we have to understand that it has More to do with them supporting the Mexican immigrants who are Not wanted. That's what the flags are for, whether it's a good choice or not to wave them, that's why they are doing that. So, please stop with this nonsense already, and try and understand what They really mean by it.
================================================== =====

Come with us and March today xray, I invite you. These people want to be American like you.

[gtownspur]

xray, I said this ealier on this subject.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"waving the mexican flag"

This is a great misconception. I can understand the arguement against, about waving the Mexican flag, but people need to understand why Many of them are doing that. Of course there are some that get a little wild, but most are doing it to show support for their people who you all want to stop from coming here and wanting to throw them back to Mexico.

Most are Not doing it out of disrespect to the U.S., they want to live here.
It may seem stupid to you and many, and it may even seem stupid to many latinos here, but we have to understand that it has More to do with them supporting the Mexican immigrants who are Not wanted. That's what the flags are for, whether it's a good choice or not to wave them, that's why they are doing that. So, please stop with this nonsense already, and try and understand what They really mean by it.
================================================== =====

Come with us and March today xray, I invite you. These people want to be American like you.



The mexican is like a symbol of cultural identity. But it's real stupid to waive the mexican flag simply because the country is worth shit.

There are atleast a 30 percent of those protestors who are almost a little too radical in their "mesican power" aztec warrior bullshit.

[xrayzebra]

^^No thank you. I will not support the illegal entry of people in this country.
There are ways to come legally. They may not be easy, but the illegals just
make it harder for those who want to come legally. I do not support the
legalization of people who came here illegally. It was tried once before and
this is what it got us into. It will only compound the problem. Enforce the
work laws and they will have to leave, we will not have to bus them back.
Besides SA210, it is not just a Mexican problem, which so many on this board
want to make it. It involves all races White/yellow/brown/black. No one on
this board seems to realize that. It is just that the Mexicans have made it
seem like it is their problem alone. Sorry I don't/wont support them.

[Extra Stout]

And you know that with 100% authority, for no other reason at all except that you are Extra Stout, master of all knowledge in all things.
The Mexican-descent population of Texas around the end of Mexican rule was around 5,000. The Anglo population was around 30,000.

The stealing of land from Hispanic landowners in favor of well-connected Anglos with oil interests in the early 20th century is a gross injustice, but it is a domestic one, not an international one.

[SA210]

The mexican is like a symbol of cultural identity. But it's real stupid to waive the mexican flag simply because the country is worth shit.

There are atleast a 30 percent of those protestors who are almost a little too radical in their "mesican power" aztec warrior bullshit.
Waving flag is symbol for Cultural identity, yes. And yes, they are fleeing Mexico because it is worth ***.
But also to show support for their people in this great debate. And there are almost a small number of radicals in protests.

Come on down today gtown. March with with us.

[SA210]

^^No thank you. I will not support the illegal entry of people in this country.
There are ways to come legally. They may not be easy, but the illegals just
make it harder for those who want to come legally. I do not support the
legalization of people who came here illegally. It was tried once before and
this is what it got us into. It will only compound the problem. Enforce the
work laws and they will have to leave, we will not have to bus them back.
Besides SA210, it is not just a Mexican problem, which so many on this board
want to make it. It involves all races White/yellow/brown/black. No one on
this board seems to realize that. It is just that the Mexicans have made it
seem like it is their problem alone. Sorry I don't/wont support them.

Xray, this protest asks for a clear path to legalize immigrants, Not for them to be and remain illegal. They want to be Americans, legally.

[Extra Stout]

The mexican is like a symbol of cultural identity. But it's real stupid to waive the mexican flag simply because the country is worth shit.

There are atleast a 30 percent of those protestors who are almost a little too radical in their "mesican power" aztec warrior bullshit.
True, there is a difference between wanting to stay here and work, and wanting to undo the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and restore Aztlan.

But the latter is just silly anyway, and only the most radical of activists even entertain the idea.

[Extra Stout]

^^No thank you. I will not support the illegal entry of people in this country.
There are ways to come legally. They may not be easy, but the illegals just
make it harder for those who want to come legally. I do not support the
legalization of people who came here illegally. It was tried once before and
this is what it got us into. It will only compound the problem. Enforce the
work laws and they will have to leave, we will not have to bus them back.
Besides SA210, it is not just a Mexican problem, which so many on this board
want to make it. It involves all races White/yellow/brown/black. No one on
this board seems to realize that. It is just that the Mexicans have made it
seem like it is their problem alone. Sorry I don't/wont support them.
It is a uniquely Mexican problem because Mexico is the only third-world country with which we have a land border. We don't have a significant problem with illegal Canadian immigration. And immigrants from any other country have to get through a seaport or airport, rather than sneaking through the desert at night.

[xrayzebra]

Xray, this protest asks for a clear path to legalize immigrants, Not for them to be and remain illegal. They want to be Americans, legally.

I understand that completely. And I am opposed to it. Do it legally,
do not come here illegally. Wait your turn and not screw over your
fellow countrymen who want to do it the right way.

How would you like someone to come into you house uninvited, stay as
long as they like, take your job and then tell you go ask your neighbors
and friends for money to take care of my medical needs, educate my
children. That is wrong and rude, is it not?

[Oh, Gee!!]

No one owns this old man. And no man should be owned.


I love how xray just doesn't get it.

[SA210]

I understand that completely. And I am opposed to it. Do it legally,
do not come here illegally. Wait your turn and not screw over your
fellow countrymen who want to do it the right way.

How would you like someone to come into you house uninvited, stay as
long as they like, take your job and then tell you go ask your neighbors
and friends for money to take care of my medical needs, educate my
children. That is wrong and rude, is it not?

Who took Your job Xray, and what kind of job was it?

Conservatives can rant all crazy and mad about this all you want, but what you don't realize, is, that if you get this Bill passed, you WILL have lost The Hispanic vote, no doubt about it.

Thereby guaranteeing a Dimm-O-Crap run government.

Be careful what you ask for. Have you been watching the national news all morning? Do you see the Hundreds of THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of latinos and other immigrants who are very pasionate about this and outraged, marching the streets across America? Put it on Faux and MSNBC.

And it's just the beginning of the day. Most Marches start later on at 2pm and 5pm and later. MILLIONS. This is The largest immigration demonstration in our countries history Today, and another on May 1st. This is an historic time in America.

Do you know one of the things they are all chanting?

"Today We March, Tomorrow We Vote!!"

They Will organize like this and GREATER once your Bill is Passed and Will vote, and You can say goodbye to a Republlican-run country.

Period.

[austinfan]

The truth of the matter is that the current system works too conveniently for everybody for any real change in immigration to occur: big business and small business have their cheap labor that they don't have to report on their taxes; illegal immigrants get a paycheck and are able to put food on the table for their families; Americans continue to have someone to mow their yards, clean their toilets and bus their tables.

I guarantee not a damn thing will get done on this issue in Congress before the November elections--it's just a wedge issue to turn out the GOP vote in 2006, only it backfired on them. The Democrats don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole either. After November, it will quietly fade into the background, and we'll be on to whatever next issue the administration wants us to focus on.

[Nbadan]

The truth of the matter is that the current system works too conveniently for everybody for any real change in immigration to occur: big business and small business have their cheap labor that they don't have to report on their taxes; illegal immigrants get a paycheck and are able to put food on the table for their families; Americans continue to have someone to mow their yards, clean their toilets and bus their tables.

I guarantee not a damn thing will get done on this issue in Congress before the November elections--it's just a wedge issue to turn out the GOP vote in 2006, only it backfired on them. The Democrats don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole either. After November, it will quietly fade into the background, and we'll be on to whatever next issue the administration wants us to focus on.

You may be right, but now that the right-wing spin machine has gotten a hold of the story and the wing-nuts are out in full force over the illegal immigration issue, it may not go away as conveniently as they would like it too. I think your right on point about this being a wedge issue that has misfired on Republicans though. Now let’s see if the Democrats can use this to their political advantage in November.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm honestly quite tired of the people who continously spit out catch phrases on either side of this debate. I'm tired of those idiots who spout off shit about rewarding crime and I'm tired about the idiots who spout off about how being a human isn't illegal.

The worst thing about this entire dispute is that one side is wrong and one side is right but neither fucking side knows why! They have their heads so far up their asses that no one can see the actual issues inolved with the situation and their political leaders and talking heads do nothing but continously muddy the water with idiotic catch phrases and sound bites that simply lead the ignorant masses further down their paths.

The bottom line is that you're not going to deport 11 million people so stop bitching about rewarding crime. Deal with the reality of the situation and realize that these people aren't going anywhere.

Second of all, unless you fix the damn border and make sure people STOP coming over illegaly, there is no point to granting amnesty to anyone because you're just going to see wave after wave after wave of new illegals coming over to find work.

And not a damn productive thing is going to be done. Not in an election year where the Republicans are about to be fleeced. Not with a president who although he actually has decent ideas involving a guest worker program he couldn't get congress to buy him a new set of pens at the moment. And not with Democrats in an election year where they are about to fleece the Republicans.

Its a godamn big issue, but not a damn thing is going to be done about it and chances are that within a couple of months the protests will die down and we'll return to our quiet and shitty status quo.

[mookie2001]

you're not going to deport 11 million people so stop bitching about rewarding crime. Deal with the reality of the situation and realize that these people aren't going anywhere.

Second of all, unless you fix the damn border and make sure people STOP coming over illegaly, there is no point to granting amnesty to anyone because you're just going to see wave after wave after wave of new illegals coming over to find work.

I agree

[xrayzebra]

It is a uniquely Mexican problem because Mexico is the only third-world country with which we have a land border. We don't have a significant problem with illegal Canadian immigration. And immigrants from any other country have to get through a seaport or airport, rather than sneaking through the desert at night.


Yes we do. Any illegal from anywhere, I have a problem with. Maybe
you don't but I do. And those that come thru the seaport or airport come
on valid visas and overstay them. They too should be sent home. Don't
make a racial issue out of something or try and put words in my mouth.
You, sir, are the racist. I was the one defending a person who those
on this board was calling a coconut, if you remember correctly.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok asshat, how are you going to deport 11 million people? Lets see if your senile ass can come up with a solution?

[Oh, Gee!!]

I was the one defending a person who those
on this board was calling a coconut, if you remember correctly.

aiding and abetting a coconut is as bad as being one yourself.

[Extra Stout]

Yes we do. Any illegal from anywhere, I have a problem with. Maybe
you don't but I do. And those that come thru the seaport or airport come
on valid visas and overstay them. They too should be sent home. Don't
make a racial issue out of something or try and put words in my mouth.
You, sir, are the racist. I was the one defending a person who those
on this board was calling a coconut, if you remember correctly.
A government can track down and send home the people who overstay visas if it cares enough to try. It also can keep them from coming back by denying them another visa.

Tracking down 11 million people, rounding them up, and shipping them to Mexico, only to have them cross back illegally days later is a much different proposition.

It's not a racial issue, but rather a logistical one.

It's not unlike trying to stop people from speeding. Having laws is all well and good, but when they're unenforceable, and and written in such a way that can only make them unenforceable, they're impotent. Our immigration laws are impotent. And you'd be surpised how few of the people that have the power in Washington want to change that.

Oh, and go fuck yourself.

[mookie2001]

You, sir, are the racist
terrance and phillip?

[xrayzebra]

I'm honestly quite tired of the people who continously spit out catch phrases on either side of this debate. I'm tired of those idiots who spout off shit about rewarding crime and I'm tired about the idiots who spout off about how being a human isn't illegal.

The worst thing about this entire dispute is that one side is wrong and one side is right but neither fucking side knows why! They have their heads so far up their asses that no one can see the actual issues inolved with the situation and their political leaders and talking heads do nothing but continously muddy the water with idiotic catch phrases and sound bites that simply lead the ignorant masses further down their paths.
================================================== =====
The problem is, like in past legislation, when you grant amnesty to
those who come illegally, you tell others to come on over, they will
make you legal. That is not a catch phrase, it is an absolute truth.
================================================== =====


The bottom line is that you're not going to deport 11 million people so stop bitching about rewarding crime. Deal with the reality of the situation and realize that these people aren't going anywhere.
================================================== =====
The reality of the situation is that Congress directed the INS to stop
enforcing the work laws. Enforce them and people will return back
to wherever they came from. No work, nothing to gain by staying
here. We wont have to deport them.
================================================== =====


Second of all, unless you fix the damn border and make sure people STOP coming over illegally, there is no point to granting amnesty to anyone because you're just going to see wave after wave after wave of new illegals coming over to find work.
================================================== ======
I agree completely. The borders need to be fixed because WE DON'T KNOW
WHO IS COMING OVER, Mexicans are the least of my worries. Coyotes work
for money, they will bring whatever person pays them. It's the way the
system works. The government of Mexico is so corrupt and set on keeping
themselves in power they have no time to worry about who crosses from
their country into ours. Look at what is going on in Nueva Laredo right
now.
================================================== ======


And not a damn productive thing is going to be done. Not in an election year where the Republicans are about to be fleeced. Not with a president who although he actually has decent ideas involving a guest worker program he couldn't get congress to buy him a new set of pens at the moment. And not with Democrats in an election year where they are about to fleece the Republicans.
================================================== ======

Welcome to the real world of reality. I am not sure about the last
sentence: about to fleece the Republicans. Since there are a lot more
voters out there that care about this issue that some on this board
are aware of.

================================================== ======




Its a godamn big issue, but not a damn thing is going to be done about it and chances are that within a couple of months the protests will die down and we'll return to our quiet and shitty status quo.

This is really the scary issue. Both sides blowing and talking and nothing
will be done. Which in itself, if they would just make INS enforce present
law, is not bad. Unfortunately, business has developed a "entitlment"
complex like the welfare group have. Just look at the Dallas Cowboys
deal with Jerry Jones. The Marlins deal that Hardberger and Wolfe want,
and Toyota. There are some drastic changes coming in future years and
I am afraid they are not going to be good. I wont be around to witness
them but a lot of folks on this board will and I am not sure you are going
to enjoy them. Government is not a profit making organization. They
have only one place to get money: from us. Always remember that.
When you say Government should do this or that, you and your neighbors
are paying the freight.

[xrayzebra]

Oh, and go fuck yourself.

Another one of your stupid, childish and impossible remarks. And
an indication of you inability to hold a decent conversation. :lol

[Nbadan]

CENSUS AND CENSUS RECORDS. In 1744 the population of Texas, according to Henderson Yoakum'sqv History of Texas (1855), was about 1,500, centered largely around San Antonio. There were a few small settlements on the Rio Grande and in East Texas near Nacogdoches. An official Spanish census of December 31, 1792, records 247 male mulattoes, 167 female mulattoes, 15 male Negroes, and 19 female Negroes in a total population for Texas of 1,617 males and 1,375 females. The estimated population of Texas was 7,000 in 1806, and it was not much greater fifteen years later when Stephen F. Austin founded his colony on the Brazos River. In 1826 a census of the Austin colony showed 1,800 persons, 443 of whom were slaves. The colonization period of 1821-35 brought many settlers; the population was estimated at 20,000 in 1831. In 1834 Juan N. Almonte,qv after a visit to Texas, placed the population at 24,700, including slaves. In 1836 there were probably 5,000 blacks, 30,000 Anglo-Americans, 3,470 Hispanics, and 14,200 Indians in Texas. A population of about 50,000 is indicated by the vote for the first president of the republic in 1836, and the vote of 1845, the last year of the republic, indicated a population of 125,000. In 1847 a partial enumeration was made showing a population of 135,000, of whom 39,000 were slaves. In a census of the state for 1848 the total population was given as 158,356, of whom 42,455 were slaves.

The first United States census was taken in 1850, when the Texas population comprised 154,034 whites, 397 free Negroes, and 58,161 slaves. The second United States census in 1860 gave Texas a population of 604,215. Growth in population was rapid until the Civil War;qv the decade of 1860-70 shows the smallest increase of population of any of the decennial periods for which enumeration of population has been made. Between 1870 and 1880 the population of Texas increased 94.5 percent to reach a total of 1,591,749.

The Texas Handbook (http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/CC/ulc1.html)

Seems to me that slaves and Indians (uncounted in census) were at least half the population in Texas when it became a Republic.

[Sec24Row7]

The Mexican-descent population of Texas around the end of Mexican rule was around 5,000. The Anglo population was around 30,000.

The stealing of land from Hispanic landowners in favor of well-connected Anglos with oil interests in the early 20th century is a gross injustice, but it is a domestic one, not an international one.


Yeah, but it wasn't because they were Mexican. Lot's of them got paid for their land or signed horrible leases. Lots Sold their minerals for next to nothing and sold the surface. Wasn't restricted to just Mexicans or minorities. A lot of white people got screwed long term too, but let me tell you that little piece of money looked really good to them at the time.

As far as proving ownership of royalties or land 70 years later and hating the family with their name on everything... tough?

Mexicans are driving all the white people out of South Texas now anyway. Turnabout is fair play. It is impossible to get a fair trial in South Texas now if you are WHITE or affluent in any way.

Please don't talk to me about injustice.

[Extra Stout]

The Texas Handbook (http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/CC/ulc1.html)

Seems to me that slaves and Indians (uncounted in census) were at least half the population in Texas when it became a Republic.
I don't disagree with that at all.

The descendants of slaves are still around somewhere. Lots are still in Texas. Many migrated to the North and West looking for work in the 1920's and 1930's. The Plains Indians who dominated the land now called Texas for a long time, either were victims of genocide, or have their descendants deposited on reservations, or have blended into the general population.

A small number of them intermarried with Hispanics. But that's not the heritage of the majority of Latinos.

[boutons_]

what is the heritage of the majority of Latinos?

[Extra Stout]

what is the heritage of the majority of Latinos?

OK, I was too broad. That is not the heritage of the majority of Mexican immigrants in Texas. Most Mexican immigrants either are of Amerindian origin from one of the tribes of central-southern Mexico, or are mestizo between Amerindian and Spanish origins.

In South Texas, you will see a lot of Coahuiltecan mestizos.

[mookie2001]

ROFL
i hate that word

[implacable44]

Xray, this protest asks for a clear path to legalize immigrants, Not for them to be and remain illegal. They want to be Americans, legally.


BS they want to be here legally- they want amnesty for breaking the law. They are illegal immigrants and they started outby breaking the law- that is a bad beginning. They need to be punished according to the law that is on the books and sent back to Mexico - When will Vincente Fox man the hell up and handle his own problems instead of pawning them off on America ? How can Mexicans cry for amnesty and reform when the laws of Mexico are far worse than those of the USA with regards to immigration? These people want to be legal residents of these great United States than do it the same way my forefathers did - REGISTER PUTAS. Why should our economy suffer at the hands of illegal aliens ? Why should the USA be forced to support Mexico as well with no benefit? Mexico is so corrupt as a country that nobody can save that place - I mean I know why they want out but do it the right way. Pay taxes - not sales taxes but federal and state income taxes - property taxes -capital gains - do it the right way. I don't care if I have to pay $1 more for a head of lettuce. Stop whining about how Mexicans take jobs gringos won't -- it isn't that the gringo's wont take the jobs - it is that they won't do it for $2.00 an hour.

This is an ugly issue and a lot of these people who are marching actually believe in the "reconquista" B.S. Like we stole their land - whatever - we took it - bought it -- singed a treaty for it - who cares. The borders are established and if you bunch of wusses want it back -- tough.

These marches are a joke. People running around whining about amnesty and reform - well can I go and committ a felony and be pardoned for it like the illegals ? I mean - can I go steal a 61 inch HD TV and just get a pass? Lets see - they are here illegally - they trespass - they don't pay income taxes I mean there are a whole slew of crimes being committed here that the illegal immigrants want amnesty for --

March - wear your white shirts and carry your american flags since the nation called you our for representing the corrupt red / green bandera de tu triste pais -- the place where you dont even want to live ? hello ?? hello ? La Raza -- well as long as we are in the usa and not in mexico - we want the RAZA - keep that corruption in that waste land of a country Mehico.

You want to immigrate -- all for it - I support it - do it legally - the border crossed you ??? BS -- you crossed it -- ILLEGALLY - laws are laws and heaven forbid some white dude cross the border into MEHICO illegally. watch out for that - but why would they unless they were running from the law -- oh must be why 29% of those prisons consists of illegals heh ?

Keep it real in your protests -- don't cry foul and call all those who don't want illegal aliens in the USA be they mexican - dominican., al quaida, iranian, cuban whatever - don't throw out the race card. How can you throw out the race card when you walk around rocking daddy yankee and screaming LA RAZA ? how does that work ? if that is not the most ethnocentric hypocritical ploy ever -

[DarkReign]

Sec24Row7, your sig is completely outdated.

Continue.

[Extra Stout]

Now here is something I can agree with:

Immigration Debate Is Killing GOP (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/04/immigration_debate_is_killing.html)

John McIntyre
Mon Apr 10, 9:19 AM ET

Republicans face a growing disaster on immigration. Right now the GOP is sailing on a dangerous course where they are increasingly turning off two pillars of their new majority. The first pillar is the talk-radio portion of the Republican base led by Rush Limbaugh (and the many who have followed in his wake) that provide a tremendous amount of energy to the conservative movement. The second pillar the GOP is endangering is the Hispanic community, the single largest growing demographic in American politics. In 2004, President Bush increased his share of the Hispanic vote to around 40% nationally. Had John Kerry been able win the same percentage of the Hispanic vote as Al Gore in 2000, he would have won the presidency.

The problem for Republicans is they are split and not speaking with one voice. The result is that they are managing to turn off both of these vital constituencies. Beltway pundits who casually throw aside the concern of the conservative base on this issue make a mistake and underestimate voter intensity on the illegal immigration problem. For a conservative base already demoralized by a Republican-led Congress incapable of cutting spending and frustrated by a war that is either portrayed as floundering (or actually is floundering), abdication of responsibility on the illegal immigration mess may be the last straw that compels many conservatives to sit on their hands this November.

If you think Republicans are picking up support in the Hispanic community for how they are dealing with immigration, you'd be wrong. The Hispanic community is focusing on the severely PR-challenged House bill which has sparked enormous public demonstrations -- political energy that will not be helpful for Republicans this fall. It doesn't matter that an overwhelmingly majority of House Republicans voted to take the felon language out of the Sensenbrenner bill but were defeated by Democrats who cynically (but shrewdly) voted to keep the language intact. Rep. Peter King (news, bio, voting record) tried to explain on FOX News Sunday that the House bill is being distorted and humanitarians aiding illegals wouldn't be prosecuted, but it is too late. The House bill is killing Republicans in the Hispanic community.

So right now Republicans have managed to create a political environment on immigration that further demoralizes their base while at the same time angers the largest growing electoral demographic critical to a long-term GOP majority. Is it any wonder Senator Schumer implored Harry Reid to scuttle the Senate "compromise"? The last thing the Democrats want, from a political standpoint, is to resolve the immigration issue.

Even though Schumer and many Democrats don't want an immigration bill, Republicans should be happy the Senate compromise went down in flames. If something like the Senate bill were to become law it would be a disaster for Republicans because the conservative base will revolt if a Republican President and Congress attempts a rerun of the Simpson-Mazzoli amnesty of 20 years ago. When you strip it all down, that is essentially what the Senate compromise McCain and Kennedy were crowing about last week would be.

It would be counterproductive to suggest there are easy answers to our broken immigration system. There aren't. Any solution that expects to pass, and to have the backing of the country, means there will have to be compromise on all sides. If the need for good public policy can't get the Republicans to come together and get something done, then maybe fear of losing their majorities in Congress might compel some real leadership.

Unlike the Social Security stalemate, a compromise is possible, but it needs to be a compromise between McCain and Kyl, not McCain and Kennedy. Republican leaders should try and get as many Democrats on board as possible, but with Republicans in control of the House, Senate and the White House; Republicans have an obligation to lead irrespective of whether the Democrats wish to cooperate.

With an understanding going in that each side is going to have to give up something they deem non-negotiable, here is a rough outline around which a deal could be formed:

- it needs to be made clear (particularly to the Hispanic community) that the problem is illegal immigration not legal immigration.

-the flow of illegal immigrants has to be stopped. This is not about hiring x thousand more border agents or throwing more money at the problem. First, this means building a fence and securing the border. And second, fines and prison for employers and business owners that hire illegals. Law enforcement needs to be focused at the border and then within the country on employers, not the workers. The fact that you will not stop the illegal flow 100% misses the point and ignores the 90%-99% you will stop.

-the number of legal immigration slots needs to dramatically be increased. (Again, it has to be emphasized over and over that the problem is with illegal immigration, not legal immigration.)

-there needs to be some pathway to citizenship provided for the 11 million illegals here right now.

The right is going to cry amnesty at any process that puts illegals on a pathway to citizenship while still being able to live in the U.S. The left is going to balk at a real fence and shutting down the border. But liberals who say they are for enforcement and securing the border are going to have a hard time opposing the only real way to secure the border. And the only way conservatives will stomach what is effectively a 2nd amnesty is if they know a fence will go up and the illegal flow will grind to a halt.

With the President's leadership a compromise along these lines is possible. However, right now Bush and the GOP Congress appear rudderless; hoping gerrymandered House districts and not quite enough Republican Senate seats in play will keep them in power. Unfortunately for conservatives, it looks like they would rather play those odds than lead and grow their majority.

[Spurminator]

:tu

[DarkReign]

A fence? Like the one in my backyard?

pfffffffft....try a brick wall, 2 stories high, and 10 ft in the ground. then I will believe it.

[Extra Stout]

A fence? Like the one in my backyard?

pfffffffft....try a brick wall, 2 stories high, and 10 ft in the ground. then I will believe it.
Usually, these things are like 10-15 feet high, in duplicate or triplicate, unclimbabale, topped with razor wire, with sentry roads running in between each wall.

It's not a garden fence.

[Mr. Peabody]

Usually, these things are like 10-15 feet high, in duplicate or triplicate, unclimbabale, topped with razor wire, with sentry roads running in between each wall.

It's not a garden fence.

Molly Ivins: Immigration 101

AUSTIN, Texas (Creators Syndicate) -- Immigration 101 for beginners and non-Texans.

In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, and my memory of the events may not be perfect -- for example, for years I've been claiming Jimmy Carter was president at the time, but that's the kind of detail one often loses track of in Terlingua.

Anyway, it was '83 or some year right around there when we held The Fence climbing contest. See, people talked about building The Fence back then, too. The Fence along the Mexican border. To keep Them out.

At the time, the proposal was quite specific -- a 17-foot cyclone fence with bob wire at the top. So a test fence was built at Terlingua, and the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence Climbing Contest took place. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: 30 seconds.

I tell this story to make the one single point about the border and immigration we know to be true: The Fence will not work. No fence will work. The Great darn Wall of China will not work. Do not build a fence. It will not work. They will come anyway. Over, under or through.

Some of you think a fence will work because Israel has one. Israel is a very small country. Anyone who says a fence can fix this problem is a demagogue and an ass.

Numero Two-o, should you actually want to stop Mexicans and OTMs (other than Mexicans) from coming to the United States, here is how to do it: Find an illegal worker at a large corporation. This is not difficult -- brooms and mops are big tip-offs. Then put the CEO of that corporation in prison for two or more years for violating the law against hiring illegal workers.

Got it? You can also imprison the corporate official who actually hired the illegal and, just to make sure, put some Betty Sue Billups -- housewife, preferably one with blonde hair in a flip -- in the joint for a two-year stretch for hiring a Mexican gardener. Thus Americans are reminded that the law says it is illegal to hire illegal workers and that anyone who hires one is responsible for verifying whether or not his or her papers are in order. If you get fooled and one slips by you, too bad, you go to jail anyway. When there are no jobs for illegal workers, they do not come. Got it?

[mookie2001]

the fence idea stinks

1. the cost

2. you would have to build the fence over at least 80% of the entire border, not just the high traffic areas (usually the mexicans coming over arent mentally retarded and would just go where the fence wasnt)

plus you would have to make sure the mexicans hired to build it, build it from the southside

[Spurminator]

Is cost really the main issue here? We throw money at everything.

[Spurminator]

I wonder what Molly Ivens would have us do with the 12 million newly unemployed immigrants living in this country under that scenario.

[Mr. Peabody]

Is cost really the main issue here? We throw money at everything.

I don't think cost is as much of an issue as the impracticality of such a project.

It's almost as if the fence idea is in place to placate those who want to see the government do something that has immediate results. Let's face it, a fence will not keep people out. However, if it helps people sleep better at night, more power to them.

[Guru of Nothing]

I wonder what Molly Ivens would have us do with the 12 million newly unemployed immigrants living in this country under that scenario.

I'm no fan of Molly Ivins, but, given her suggestions, if employment opportunities evaporate, illegal immigration would cease. ... or, a massive crimewave would ensue.

[Spurminator]

I understand her point as a solution to stop illegal immigration, but it creates another problem of millions of unemployed illegals and their families. Would they go back to Mexico?

It's a part of the solution, certainly, but I still think Step One is simplifying the process of gaining citizenship.

[Mr. Peabody]

I'm no fan of Molly Ivins, but, given her suggestions, if employment opportunities evaporate, illegal immigration would cease. ... or, a massive crimewave would ensue.

I like her idea, but it'll never happen. For those in power, it's better policy to make felons out of 10 Mexican day laborers rather than the one wealthy socialite who hired them to work on her yard.

[Clandestino]

a fence will not work, no ifs, ands or buts... the only thing it would accomplish is giving more jobs to people the fence was supposed to keep out...

fuck, 99.9% of people sneaking in only want a job whereas 99.9% of katrina victims only wanted and still want a handout... maybe they are the people who should be deported someplace...

[Extra Stout]

A fence doesn't work if the only goal is to keep the brown people out.

A fence works in conjunction with big wide gates that say "LEGAL ENTRY FOR WORKERS HERE." Oops, sorry, "LA ENTRADA LEGAL PARA LOS TRABAJADORES AQUI."

Make it easier for laborers to come here legitimately, in numbers that meet our demand for labor.

That's the answer which has made sense all along.

But that will never happen in this political landscape. There are too many people that just want to keep out "non-assimilating" immigrants, where the definition of "assimilating" can be adjusted however necessary so that it becomes impossible for non-Anglos to do it.

[smeagol]

Human nature is what it is. Back in the 1800s, I'm sure "Americans" (the ones that were born here) felt the same way about the Irish, Polish, German, Italian, etc immigrants as xray feels about the Mexican, even though those people were "white".

Hate has been around for a while.

[Extra Stout]

Human nature is what it is. Back in the 1800s, I'm sure "Americans" (the ones that were born here) felt the same way about the Irish, Polish, German, Italian, etc immigrants as xray feels about the Mexican, even though those people were "white".

Hate has been around for a while.
EXACTLY.

The immigrant groups became "white" over time as intermarriage left its mark.

[xrayzebra]

Human nature is what it is. Back in the 1800s, I'm sure "Americans" (the ones that were born here) felt the same way about the Irish, Polish, German, Italian, etc immigrants as xray feels about the Mexican, even though those people were "white".

Hate has been around for a while.

You really do have a problem with your reading comprehension, don't you.
I have nothing against Mexicans. Just illegals. By the way, aren't you
the one who proclaims to be such a Christian? Judge not, that you may
be judged.

[xrayzebra]

EXACTLY.

The immigrant groups became "white" over time as intermarriage left its mark.


You know ES, you seemed to have a real problem with racial issues. Maybe
you should take a good look at yourself sometime.

[nkdlunch]

Yeah!!! Strike Baby!

[nkdlunch]

No Fence is gonna keep Pepe out. That nigga can swim

[Extra Stout]

You know ES, you seemed to have a real problem with racial issues. Maybe
you should take a good look at yourself sometime.
Yeah, I must seem like a real race traitor to folks like you. Should I be expecting a burning cross on my lawn?

[SA210]

http://www.immigrantsolidarity.org/

On May 1, we are calling No Work, No School, No Sales, and No Buying, and also to have rallies around symbols of economic trade in your areas (stock exchanges, anti-immigrant corporations, etc.) to protest the anti-immigrant movements across the country.

On May 1, we will wear "white" a T-Shirt and/or white arm bands, we can paint and write our political demands (and creative arts) at the T-shirt go to rally, protest, strike, vigil, work or school--we will have a ocean of white T-shirts with our political demands from east coast to west coast, at the street, work place, school, bus station & store... and our voice will be LOUD AND CLEAR AND CANNOT BE SILENT FOR EVER!

We will settle for nothing less than full amnesty and dignity for the millions of undocumented workers presently in the U.S. We believe that increased enforcement is a step in the wrong direction and will only serve to facilitate more tragedies along the Mexican-U.S. border in terms of deaths and family separation.

[nkdlunch]

cool. Iwon't buy shit that day. but i don't know about strikin. what if i get fired?

[DarkReign]

fuck off

[DarkReign]

cool. Iwon't buy shit that day. but i don't know about strikin. what if i get fired?

i hope you do.

[Extra Stout]

EXACTLY.

The immigrant groups became "white" over time as intermarriage left its mark.

To those you don't snap to what smeagol and I are talking about, back in the 19th century, only Anglo-Saxon Protestants were considered truly "white." It was argued that Celtic immigrants were racially inferior, and never truly would be able to immigrate into American society.

This attitude came from Britain. There was a fairly widespread belief that the Slavic, Celtic, and Latin peoples were inferior to the Germanic, Frankish, and Nordic peoples.

Yet even German immigrants suffered exploitation and discrimination, because they spoke a foreign language, and had unfamiliar customs.

[nkdlunch]

i hope you do.

Hola amigo!

If I'm out of a job I might be forced to marry your fat sister :(

[Extra Stout]

http://www.immigrantsolidarity.org/

On May 1, we are calling No Work, No School, No Sales, and No Buying, and also to have rallies around symbols of economic trade in your areas (stock exchanges, anti-immigrant corporations, etc.) to protest the anti-immigrant movements across the country.

On May 1, we will wear "white" a T-Shirt and/or white arm bands, we can paint and write our political demands (and creative arts) at the T-shirt go to rally, protest, strike, vigil, work or school--we will have a ocean of white T-shirts with our political demands from east coast to west coast, at the street, work place, school, bus station & store... and our voice will be LOUD AND CLEAR AND CANNOT BE SILENT FOR EVER!

We will settle for nothing less than full amnesty and dignity for the millions of undocumented workers presently in the U.S. We believe that increased enforcement is a step in the wrong direction and will only serve to facilitate more tragedies along the Mexican-U.S. border in terms of deaths and family separation.


Question: why has the big Communist holiday of May Day been selected for this demonstration? Why not, say, May 5?

Are you sure you really understand who is organizing this? The Communist group A.N.S.W.E.R. frequently has their tentacles around movements like this.

Just be careful you who are dealing with. The U.S. populace is not unsympathetic to the immigrant plight, but if starts aligning itself with anti-American leftists, the mood could change.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Can I buy Mexican beer on May 1? Cuz if I'm taking the day off, I might as well drink some beer.

[SA210]

Can I buy Mexican beer on May 1? Cuz if I'm taking the day off, I might as well drink some beer.
No American products brother. :tu

[nkdlunch]

Question: why has the big Communist holiday of May Day been selected for this demonstration? Why not, say, May 5?

Are you sure you really understand who is organizing this? The Communist group A.N.S.W.E.R. frequently has their tentacles around movements like this.

Just be careful you who are dealing with. The U.S. populace is not unsympathetic to the immigrant plight, but if starts aligning itself with anti-American leftists, the mood could change.


yeah its a good question why May 1 was selected. But beleive me all the organizers have been telling the people to wear white, bring american flags and act peacefully and orderly. And the whole purpose of this is to stop those new laws and support immigrants rights. so don't worry

[SA210]

yeah its a good question why May 1 was selected. But beleive me all the organizers have been telling the people to wear white, bring american flags and act peacefully and orderly. And the whole purpose of this is to stop those new laws and support immigrants rights. so don't worry
The point is clear, but spin will occur no matter what.

We Will continue the Mass peaceful demonstrations and strikes for justice, no matter what the opposition says. This Is History, in the making.

Si Se Puede :tu

[Extra Stout]

A little research has confirmed my fears. The National Immigrant Solidarity Network that is organizing this march is aligned with ActionLA.

A quick trip to the ActionLA website yields the motto: "We demand a total change of priorities from the production of things to the caring for people and the environment." In other words, they want the abandonment of capitalism.

They also are tied to the World Can't Wait campaign, which was founded by C. Clark Kissinger, the leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party, which, among its other seditious activities, called for the assassination of President Reagan in 1984.

SA210, I know you mean well, but you're being used as a stooge by this country's enemies.

[Spurminator]

Buy it the day before brother. :tu

Does that really do any damage then?


AP: Alcohol Sales for 4/30/2006 highest of the year

Two days worth of beer and liquor purchased in one day
Liquor store owners celebrate

[Oh, Gee!!]

Does that really do any damage then?


AP: Alcohol Sales for 4/30/2006 highest of the year

Two days worth of beer and liquor purchased in one day
Liquor store owners celebrate


Liquor stores closed on Sunday. PWNT!!!1!11!!!

[Spurminator]

:lol

Damn, that Saturday is gonna be huge for sales then...

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Our coverage of Austin's protest march.

http://star.txstate.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1436

This was probably the largest story I've ever covered and I was pretty shocked at how many people took to the streets.



The Immigration Issue: Protest at the Capitol

Protestors take to streets of Austin to call for immigration reform

By Joe Ruiz
The University Star

AUSTIN — Thousands of Central Texans marched downtown on Monday afternoon to protest resolutions before Congress calling for tougher crackdowns on illegal immigration.

An estimated crowd of 12,000 were present throughout the day, and an estimated 3,000 congregated on the steps of the Capitol building to listen to speakers, organize and chant slogans calling for equal rights within the immigrant communities.

The lush, green lawns of the Capitol were awash in white shirts and predominately American and Mexican flags.

The rally on the steps was part of an earlier walkout and protest on the campus of the University of Texas.

One of those at the Capitol attended because of what he had faced in his five years in the United States as an undocumented immigrant.

“We came to work in America to get a better life,” Sergio Peña said. “We want to get our papers, that way we don’t have to worry about being here and not be scared and afraid.”

Holding an American flag with his family, Peña joined those on the lawn and steps in chants of “¡Si, se puede!” Spanish for “Yes, we can!”

The protest — which later became a march — was part of the National Day of Action for Immigrant Justice, a day planned to rally hundreds of thousands of people in at least 39 states, according to CNN.

Austin’s protestors, while predominately of Hispanic descent, were joined by people across the racial and ethnic spectrum.

Brigid Shea, a former Austin city councilwoman, was among the protestors marching through Congress Avenue and other streets on their way to the Federal Building at the intersection of San Jacinto Boulevard and East Ninth Street.

“I think these protests are very similar to those of the Civil Rights protests in the ’60s,” Shea said. “I think the way we treat immigrants is a re-invention of slavery.”

Shea, who openly cried during the walk, also marched as a way to teach her son and his friend how to stand up for what they believe is right.

“If you don’t give us our rights, we’re going to open our own doors,” said Jack Bennett, friend of Shea’s son. “It should be very easy to just give them their rights.”

Immigrants, both legal and illegal, were part of the protest and march that stopped briefly to chant at the doors of the Texas Governor’s Mansion on Colorado Street as well as the local offices of Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, on West Sixth Street.

Shortly after 5 p.m., Kyle resident Rigoberto Faz briefly led the march down 11th Street before turning left on Colorado. Faz, hand-in-hand with two of his three sons, joined the march to show that immigrants contribute daily to American life.

“My parents came here from Mexico to work,” Faz said. “I’m not claiming to be a perfect person, but it gave me the opportunity to give my children, my wife and my family an opportunity to have a better life. I believe everybody should have that right to come and have the opportunity to work as long as they remain crime-free, I don’t see a reason why we have to deport anybody.”

Following the chants at the Governor’s Mansion, the march continued four blocks further to Sixth Street, where the line of protestors turned right and proceeded to stop at Cornyn’s offices.

Chris Jimmerson, executive director of Political Asylum Project of Austin and one of the organizers of the march, stopped the group as they arrived at shaded entrance to the building.

“This is Senator Cornyn’s office, and they have a message they want to send to Senator Cornyn about supporting immigrant rights,” Jimmerson said. “We want a program that allows people to become legal, and we want just, comprehensive immigration reform.”

Three protestors carried a giant letter, affixed with a stamp of Latino civil rights icon César Chavéz, to the door of the locked building and left it against the entrance, addressed to the local offices of the senator.

“It’s clear that we need both border security and reform to address the 12 million people currently living inside our borders illegally. The Cornyn/Kyl bill takes a comprehensive approach that would bolster our border security, enhance interior enforcement and comprehensively reform our immigration laws. Our plan would also provide a second chance, without amnesty, for those who want to work legally in the United States. But I will continue to oppose legislation that includes amnesty or simply repeats the mistakes of the 1986 bill,” Cornyn wrote in an e-mail statement to The University Star through his press secretary, John Drogin.

After leaving Cornyn’s office, the march looped back through Fifth Street and turned left onto Congress, before turning again on East Ninth Street to arrive at a final rally at the Federal Building.

Those walking at the head of the march on Fifth Street could observe people still turning onto Sixth Street in front of Cornyn’s office.

Many of the demonstrators were peaceful along the route, even when confronted by a handful of counter-protestors, although an official statement about situations during the rally and march were unavailable after multiple phone calls to the Austin Police Department were not returned.

“I believe that we’re a nation of laws and that we need to uphold the law as it is. Illegal immigration is against the law, so I think that the people who are here illegally need to go home and come back via proper channels,” said Grant Rostig, a Libertarian candidate for the 25th U.S. Congressional District of Texas.

The candidate said that even with his alternative stance to the masses walking through Austin, he had been confronted only briefly.

“A few people have said a few things, but it’s been pretty peaceful, actually.”

Rostig is challenging Democratic incumbent Lloyd Doggett in the November elections.

By 7 p.m., most of the protestors had left the Federal Building, but traffic through Austin’s downtown streets was still blocked.


http://star.txstate.edu/images/stories/apr06/apr11/N-0410-IP1-C.jpg

http://star.txstate.edu/images/stories/apr06/apr11/N-0410-IP5-C.jpg

http://star.txstate.edu/images/stories/apr06/apr11/N-0410-IP8-C.jpg

http://star.txstate.edu/images/stories/apr06/apr11/N-0410-IP9-C.jpg

http://star.txstate.edu/images/stories/apr06/apr11/N-0410-IP6-C.jpg

[SA210]

A little research has confirmed my fears. The National Immigrant Solidarity Network that is organizing this march is aligned with ActionLA.

A quick trip to the ActionLA website yields the motto: "We demand a total change of priorities from the production of things to the caring for people and the environment." In other words, they want the abandonment of capitalism.

They also are tied to the World Can't Wait campaign, which was founded by C. Clark Kissinger, the leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party, which, among its other seditious activities, called for the assassination of President Reagan in 1984.

SA210, I know you mean well, but you're being used as a stooge by this country's enemies.

The point is clear, but spin will occur no matter what.

We Will continue the Mass peaceful demonstrations and strikes for justice, no matter what the opposition says. This Is History, in the making.

Si Se Puede http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies2/smitu.gif
The millions marching and striking know what they are doing this for. Labeling them will not stop the demonstrations, in fact only encourage bigger ones.

I do mean well, and so do the millions demonstrating.

[Extra Stout]

The millions marching and striking know what they are doing this for. Labeling them will not stop the demonstrations, in fact only encourage bigger ones.

I do mean well, and so do the millions demonstrating.
Just be sure to make it your march, and not theirs.

[nkdlunch]

A little research has confirmed my fears. The National Immigrant Solidarity Network that is organizing this march is aligned with ActionLA.

A quick trip to the ActionLA website yields the motto: "We demand a total change of priorities from the production of things to the caring for people and the environment." In other words, they want the abandonment of capitalism.

They also are tied to the World Can't Wait campaign, which was founded by C. Clark Kissinger, the leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party, which, among its other seditious activities, called for the assassination of President Reagan in 1984.

SA210, I know you mean well, but you're being used as a stooge by this country's enemies.

Overreacting a little? This is gonna be too big for this organization to organize, you are giving them too much credit.

Fact is, immigrants are realizing that they do have power and are uniting for their rights.

[xrayzebra]

Yeah, I must seem like a real race traitor to folks like you. Should I be expecting a burning cross on my lawn?

No, you can rest easy as far as I am concerned. I have no intention of
doing anything like that. But I will speak my mind. That is my right.

[xrayzebra]

Question: why has the big Communist holiday of May Day been selected for this demonstration? Why not, say, May 5?

Are you sure you really understand who is organizing this? The Communist group A.N.S.W.E.R. frequently has their tentacles around movements like this.

Just be careful you who are dealing with. The U.S. populace is not unsympathetic to the immigrant plight, but if starts aligning itself with anti-American leftists, the mood could change.

Well who do you think is organizing these "rallies". And who is trying to
associate these people with "civil rights". But SA210 feels better, cause
SA210 did the right thing. Even If it isn't.

[Oh, Gee!!]

No, you can rest easy as far as I am concerned. I have no intention of
doing anything like that. But I will speak my mind. That is my right.


You better do it now, as you seem to be losing it rapidly.

[xrayzebra]

The millions marching and striking know what they are doing this for. Labeling them will not stop the demonstrations, in fact only encourage bigger ones.

I do mean well, and so do the millions demonstrating.

Don't you just love their little saying. March today, vote tomorrow. Obviously, they don't tell the truth. Vote in every election, so long as you
vote dimm-0-crap. No one will stop you.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Don't you just love their little saying. March today, vote tomorrow. Obviously, they don't tell the truth. Vote in every election, so long as you
vote dimm-0-crap. No one will stop you.


paranoid much?

[xrayzebra]

You better do it now, as you seem to be losing it rapidly.


OG, I haven't nor will I lose it. Nor have you lost it or lose it. But
don't begrudge me my little say, okay. And yes, I know you weren't talking
about what I just said. But believe me when I tell you, I have all my
mental facilities about me. Violence is just not my bag, that is for the
opposition. Speaking my mind, unafraid or yours or anyone else consequence, that
is my privilege and pride. I hold no prejudice against any person because
of race. I do hold prejudice, against many. But I dislike all equally. I don't
care what there race/color/gender or otherwise. I don't like someone, I don't
like them.

[xrayzebra]

Here is Dr. Sowell's take on immigration. SA210 please look at the highlighted
portion. You brought this subject up in one of your post.



Immigration "solutions"
By Thomas Sowell

Apr 11, 2006


Activists who are organizing mass marches and demonstrations in cities across America may well be congratulating themselves on the huge numbers of people they can get to turn out to protest efforts in Congress to reduce illegal immigration.

No doubt that will impress many in the media and intimidate many politicians. But how these marches will be seen by millions of other Americans is another question entirely.

The Mexican flags and the strident assertions of a right to violate American laws are a danger signal to this society, as they would be to any society.

The releasing of children from schools to take part in these marches and the support of the marchers' goals by some religious leaders demonstrate that this contempt for the laws of the land has spread well beyond immigrant communities.

For some, this is just another extension of their general anti-establishment attitudes and activities. They are ready to protest virtually anything at any time.

At the other end of the political spectrum are staid and sober representatives of business interests who simply want a continuing supply of cheap labor. They don't march, they lobby politicians.

Both liberals and free-market libertarians often see this as an abstract issue about poor people being hindered from moving to jobs by an arbitrary border drawn across the southwest desert.

Intellectuals' ability to think of people in the abstract is a dangerous talent in a world where people differ in all the ways that make them people. The cultures and surrounding circumstances of those people are crucial for understanding what they are likely to do and what the consequences are likely to be.

Some free-market advocates argue that the same principle which justifies free international trade in commodities should justify the free movement of people as well. But this ignores the fact that people have consequences that go far beyond the consequences of commodities.

Commodities are used up and vanish. People generate more people, who become a permanent and expanding part of the country's population and electorate.

It is an irreversible process -- and a potentially dangerous process, as Europeans have discovered with their "guest worker" programs that have brought in many Muslims who are fundamentally hostile to the culture and the people that welcomed them.

Unlike commodities, people in a welfare state have legal claims on other people's tax dollars and expensive services in schools and hospitals, not to mention the high cost of imprisoning many of them who commit crimes.

Immigrants in past centuries came here to become Americans, not to remain foreigners, much less to proclaim the rights of their homelands to reclaim American soil, as some of the Mexican activist groups have done.

In the wars that this country fought, immigrant groups were among the most patriotic volunteers, earning the respect of American citizens on the battlefield with their blood and their lives.

Today, immigrant spokesmen promote grievances, not gratitude, much less patriotism. Moreover, many native-born Americans also promote a sense of separatism and grievance and, through "multi-culturalism," strive to keep immigrants foreign and disaffected.

This is not to say that all or most of the illegal immigrants themselves share this anti-establishment or anti-American bias of many of their spokesmen or supporters. Most are probably here to make a buck and have little time for ideology.

Hispanic activists themselves recognize that many of the immigrants from Mexico -- legal or illegal -- would assimilate into American society in the absence of these activists' efforts to keep them a separate constituency. But these efforts are widespread and unrelenting, a fact that cannot be ignored.

Whatever is said or done in the immigration debate, no one should insult the American people's intelligence by talking or acting as if this is a question about the movement of abstract people across an abstract line.

What is likely to be done? A pretense of reducing illegal immigration and a reality of amnesty under some other name.



Thomas Sowell is the prolific author of books such as Black Rednecks and White Liberals and Applied Economics.




Copyright © 2006 Townhall.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/thomassowell/2006/04/11/193239.html

[George W Bush]

I guess I'll get in on the debate here a lil bit.

Please bear with me, cuz Karl ain't around to help me.
And I hate bears, by the way.

But gettin' to the point. "lllegal immigration"is something that concerns me very much.

Mainly,
because I don't know what the hell it is. I just know one day my people conquered a bunch of dark colored people who used to be called Machete's or somethin' like that, or maybe cuz they used machete's, oh I don't know, the point is, we stole some land fair and square.

My daddy told me once; that's why I was able to steal them elections so good, it's in my blood. Anyway, I guess we didn't kill em all cuz they wannna come back. Seeing as how I don't want them buildin' tents up and adobe buildings again, we must declare war on Texas even though it's ours.

We can post up at my ranch down in Crawford, TX.
And When I say "we", I mean yall. What'd you expect?

Our battle cry can be, "Remember the machete's" or some other hardware tool.

I'll personally have Dick Cheney guard the south post of my ranch. We can just throw Harry Whittington in the direction of them dark skinned people and Dick will take care of the rest.

Until we have victory,

God Bless America :tu

[nkdlunch]

Here is Dr. Sowell's take on immigration. SA210 please look at the highlighted
portion. You brought this subject up in one of your post.



Immigration "solutions"
By Thomas Sowell

Apr 11, 2006


Activists who are organizing mass marches and demonstrations in cities across America may well be congratulating themselves on the huge numbers of people they can get to turn out to protest efforts in Congress to reduce illegal immigration.

No doubt that will impress many in the media and intimidate many politicians. But how these marches will be seen by millions of other Americans is another question entirely.

The Mexican flags and the strident assertions of a right to violate American laws are a danger signal to this society, as they would be to any society.

The releasing of children from schools to take part in these marches and the support of the marchers' goals by some religious leaders demonstrate that this contempt for the laws of the land has spread well beyond immigrant communities.

For some, this is just another extension of their general anti-establishment attitudes and activities. They are ready to protest virtually anything at any time.

At the other end of the political spectrum are staid and sober representatives of business interests who simply want a continuing supply of cheap labor. They don't march, they lobby politicians.

Both liberals and free-market libertarians often see this as an abstract issue about poor people being hindered from moving to jobs by an arbitrary border drawn across the southwest desert.

Intellectuals' ability to think of people in the abstract is a dangerous talent in a world where people differ in all the ways that make them people. The cultures and surrounding circumstances of those people are crucial for understanding what they are likely to do and what the consequences are likely to be.

Some free-market advocates argue that the same principle which justifies free international trade in commodities should justify the free movement of people as well. But this ignores the fact that people have consequences that go far beyond the consequences of commodities.

Commodities are used up and vanish. People generate more people, who become a permanent and expanding part of the country's population and electorate.

It is an irreversible process -- and a potentially dangerous process, as Europeans have discovered with their "guest worker" programs that have brought in many Muslims who are fundamentally hostile to the culture and the people that welcomed them.

Unlike commodities, people in a welfare state have legal claims on other people's tax dollars and expensive services in schools and hospitals, not to mention the high cost of imprisoning many of them who commit crimes.

Immigrants in past centuries came here to become Americans, not to remain foreigners, much less to proclaim the rights of their homelands to reclaim American soil, as some of the Mexican activist groups have done.

In the wars that this country fought, immigrant groups were among the most patriotic volunteers, earning the respect of American citizens on the battlefield with their blood and their lives.

Today, immigrant spokesmen promote grievances, not gratitude, much less patriotism. Moreover, many native-born Americans also promote a sense of separatism and grievance and, through "multi-culturalism," strive to keep immigrants foreign and disaffected.

This is not to say that all or most of the illegal immigrants themselves share this anti-establishment or anti-American bias of many of their spokesmen or supporters. Most are probably here to make a buck and have little time for ideology.

Hispanic activists themselves recognize that many of the immigrants from Mexico -- legal or illegal -- would assimilate into American society in the absence of these activists' efforts to keep them a separate constituency. But these efforts are widespread and unrelenting, a fact that cannot be ignored.

Whatever is said or done in the immigration debate, no one should insult the American people's intelligence by talking or acting as if this is a question about the movement of abstract people across an abstract line.

What is likely to be done? A pretense of reducing illegal immigration and a reality of amnesty under some other name.



Thomas Sowell is the prolific author of books such as Black Rednecks and White Liberals and Applied Economics.




Copyright © 2006 Townhall.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/thomassowell/2006/04/11/193239.html

the poor doctor is overanalysing the whole thing. Keep it simple. Illegal immigrants want their rights and are fighting for them period.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The Mexican-descent population of Texas around the end of Mexican rule was around 5,000. The Anglo population was around 30,000.

The stealing of land from Hispanic landowners in favor of well-connected Anglos with oil interests in the early 20th century is a gross injustice, but it is a domestic one, not an international one.


Pff, i Never said it was an international one, i know it was in this area. I was just saying its not like it happened once or twice like you alluded to.

[xrayzebra]

the poor doctor is overanalysing the whole thing. Keep it simple. Illegal immigrants want their rights and are fighting for them period.


What rights are those, may I ask. Their rights as the citizens of their
country. Or the rights of an American citizen. They have no guaranteed
rights as illegal aliens in the United States.

[cheguevara]

What rights are those, may I ask. Their rights as the citizens of their
country. Or the rights of an American citizen. They have no guaranteed
rights as illegal aliens in the United States.

their rights as living, breathing human beings and not animals. Those rights.

[xrayzebra]

their rights as living, breathing human beings and not animals. Those rights.

No one is denying those rights. Other than maybe their own countries,
who they should working to change. No come here illegally and demand
rights, where none exist. How come you don't demand Mexico take care
of all their citizens, end corruption and share the wealth of their nation.

Huh, home come?

[Oh, Gee!!]

No one is denying those rights. Other than maybe their own countries,
who they should working to change. No come here illegally and demand
rights, where none exist. How come you don't demand Mexico take care
of all their citizens, end corruption and share the wealth of their nation.

Huh, home come?


I wonder if you're here illegally after reading your posts in which you completely butcher the English language.

[nkdlunch]

No one is denying those rights. Other than maybe their own countries,
who they should working to change. No come here illegally and demand
rights, where none exist. How come you don't demand Mexico take care
of all their citizens, end corruption and share the wealth of their nation.

Huh, home come?


dude someday you'll have to face that it's IMPOSSIBLE to deport 11 million human beings from a country. Once you realize that, I hope you realize, those human beings need rights, especially if they work hard and want to contribute to this nation. Util then, good luck.

[Brodels]

their rights as living, breathing human beings and not animals. Those rights.

Not to get too far off topic here, but just out of curiousity, what rights do "living human beings" have, where do they originate from, and who grants them?

[1369]

Well, I have a card certified from the United States government (The recent entity holding my land hostage) stating that my ancestors were here before yours (read: Spanish Americans (i.e. Mexicans), Anglo Americans, and all others who trespassed upon my peoples land), so kindly get the fuck out and leave me and my people be. Trust me, there is no "Aztlan" to be had north of the Rio Bravo. Besides, "Aztlan" was never here in this region in the first place.

[T-Pain]

damn im glad i was born in the states

[Sec24Row7]

Well, I have a card certified from the United States government (The recent entity holding my land hostage) stating that my ancestors were here before yours (read: Spanish Americans (i.e. Mexicans), Anglo Americans, and all others who trespassed upon my peoples land), so kindly get the fuck out and leave me and my people be. Trust me, there is no "Aztlan" to be had north of the Rio Bravo. Besides, "Aztlan" was never here in this region in the first place.


Rofl! Indians were killing indians for their land long before we started. We were just better at it.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The original deed to my dad's property restricted the sale of the land to Mexicans and "Negroes."

[Mr. Peabody]

The original deed to my dad's property restricted the sale of the land to Mexicans and "Negroes."

So the land could only be sold to Mexicans and Negroes? Just another example of how our country is alienating the white man.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So the land could only be sold to Mexicans and Negroes?

Forbade?

[Mr. Peabody]

Forbade?

PWN3D!!1!!!1!!

[mookie2001]

Well, I have a card certified from the United States government (The recent entity holding my land hostage) stating that my ancestors were here before yours (read: Spanish Americans (i.e. Mexicans), Anglo Americans, and all others who trespassed upon my peoples land), so kindly get the fuck out and leave me and my people be
can you explain?
I don't get it

[Gerryatrics]

Some pics from the rallies so far...

http://static.flickr.com/36/126026753_7014a7f434.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/45/126026577_3a990df91c.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1/126025662_92cc8715ca.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/55/126025622_f7563f887c.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/47/126025780_d175f6572d.jpg

[Gerryatrics]

http://blog.simmins.org/imm/Immigration008sm.JPG

http://blog.simmins.org/imm/Immigration010sm.jpg

http://blog.simmins.org/imm/Immigration020sm.jpg

http://blog.simmins.org/imm/Immigration026sm.jpg

http://blog.simmins.org/imm/Immigration029sm.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2006/1865/1600/26774.jpg

[mookie2001]

oh my god

I changed my mind

they should pass a law where you can only write nice things on signs, and only wave american flags!

[Trainwreck2100]

oh my god

I changed my mind

they should pass a law where you can only write nice things on signs, and only wave american flags!


They should change the law so the stupid things are banned while witty things are good. Also fat people should not be holding signs.

[ChumpDumper]

C'mon white people -- Let's get scared!

[Soundbyte]

Yeah, alright, Ill see ya guys there... (http://www.logusz.com/~yupislyr/3/seeya.wav)

[Oh, Gee!!]

http://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/owned/immigratiowned.jpg

[SA210]

John Leguizamo supporting May 1 strike

http://www.quepasa.com/english/news/entertainment/John.Leguizamo.strike/454402.html


Mexico, April 14, 2006 (Notimex) - Colombian-rooted actor John Leguizamo, who has based his career mainly in the US, stated his support for the immigrants that live in this country and the strike planned for next May 1.

"It would be a top and I hope all Latinos take part of it, not only undocumented immigrants, but also Latinos from every baseball team. It would also be good for people like Jennifer Lopez, Benjamin Bratt, and Salma Hayek to join this effort, which should be unified, and not only from Mexicans," he stated.

During a press conference to promote his movie "Cronicas," in which he performs along with Mexican Damian Alcazar, Leguizamo stated to be proud of the several marches to be organized by Latinos in order to defend their rights.

"I hope that on May 1, Colombians, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cuban, Central Americans, immigrants, and citizens like me come together, we must be united and make our voices heard. It's an insult saying that immigrant Latinos are criminals, that is absurd and terrible."

The actor stated that Latinos are now more united. He said that "there's lots of American people that supports the Latino cause, they're incredibly generous."

Ecuadorian director Sebastian Cordero, who directed "Cronicas," also joined the strike proposal and, despite he will not be in the US for that day, he stated that he fully supports Latinos.

"I think that there shouldn't be any borders, these are ridiculous. It's not possible that we can't be only one planet where people can walk freely wherever they want to. The US is a country that was built thanks to immigrants and it's now shutting its doors," the director stated.

Finally, Jose Maria Jazpik, who also performs in "Cronicas," called for no Mexican to get US products on May 1.

Other Latinos around the world that have shown their support for the cause are Antonio Banderas, Shakira, Ana Gabriel, Willy Colon, Paulina Rubio, Bobby Pulido, Tigres del Norte, Tucanes de Tijuana, Juan Luis Guerra, and Daddy Yankee, among others. NTX

[greyforest]

uhhh...if the strike is meant to show how illegal immigrants contribute to the economy, then why are all immigrants going to strike?

what is the logic in this? the argument is that illegal immigrants are a drain on society, as they pay no income taxes yet reap benefits of public services. if they want to show that they are not a drain on society, then they alone need to strike. every immigrant striking isn't going to prove a damn thing.

edit, btw flying the us flag upside down, the mexican flag over it, etc. is a real class act. what better way of showing that you respect and want to integrate to a country is there other than by shitting all over it and waving the flag of the country you actually care about.

[xrayzebra]

Hey SA210, do you really think, since the "leaders" of your "people" are against the
strike it is going to happen?