Favorite to watch...

[Darrin]

I'm shacking up with a bottle of cap and my laptop this Saturday, and so it seems like time to have a basketball debate. Usually people talk about the best players in the league. My question is a little different: Who do you enjoy watching all-time. I want to see how many times Michael Jordan's name comes up in this thread:

1. Joe Dumars
2. Ben Wallace
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Hakeem Olajuwon
5. Isiah Thomas
6. Scottie Pippen
7. Tim Duncan
8. Alonzo Mourning
9. Ray Allen (sorry Bowen fans)
10. Gary Payton
11. Shawn Marion
12. Jason Kidd
13. Larry Johnson
14. David Robinson
15. Andrei Kirilenko
16. Shawn Kemp
17. Steve Smith
18. Glen Rice
19. Nick Van Exel
20. Baron Davis
21. Vince Carter
22. Kobe Bryant
23. Dwyane Wade
24. Jermaine O'Neal
25. Tim Hardaway
26. Elton Brand
27. Charles Barkley
28. Patrick Ewing
29. Charles Oakley
30. Dennis Rodman

[1Parker1]

1) Michael Jordan
2) Reggie Miller
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Manu Ginobili/Tony Parker/Tim Duncan/David Robinson
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Steve Nash
7) Dennis Rodman (simply because I find him humorous to watch)
8 Jason Kidd

[JMarkJohns]

This isn't even close for me...

The trio of Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek and Tom Chambers

Over the three years they played with each other, they averaged over 60 points per game. In 89-90, the trio averaged nearly 70 per game with 18 assists per game on 52% shooting from the field.

The the team equivalent of the three-man weave. They knew where each other were at all points on the floor and just played beautifully of each other.

Over the three years, it was one of the scariest trios in the League. Capable of going against any in the League.

Among today's athletes, I like watching Rip Hamilton. I love motion offense and the Pistons execute it great.

[baseline bum]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Larry Bird
4. Kobe Bryant
5. David Robinson
6. Charles Barkley
7. Manu Ginobili
8. Isiah Thomas
9. Scottie Pippen
10. Magic Johnson
11. George Gervin
12. Chris Webber
13. Dominique Wilkins
14. Jason Kidd
15. Reggie Miller
16. Rasheed Wallace
17. Shawn Kemp
18. Vince Carter
19. Steve Nash
20. Tim Duncan

[alamo50]

I want to see how many times Michael Jordan's name comes up in this thread

:spless:

[shelshor]

1) Bill Russell
2) Oscar Robertson
3) John Havlicek
4) George Gervin
5) Nate 'Tiny" Archibald
6) David Robinson
7) Elgin Baylor
8) Bob Cousy
9) Manu Ginobili
10) Tom Heinsohn
11) Tim Duncan
12) Larry Bird
13) Bruce Bowen
14) Mel Counts
15) Julius Erving
16) Walt 'Clyde' Frazier & Earl 'The Pearl' Monroe
17) 'Downtown' Freddie Brown
18) The Jones Boys: Sam & KC
19) David Thompson
20) John Stockton & Karl Malone

[v2000]

so many of you guys are total freakin homers... NO WAY is Tim Duncan, Bruce Bowen, Manu Ginobili, or Tony Parker EVEN CLOSE to being as interesting as guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Dr. J, Kareem, Oscar Robertson, and many others. and where the hell is PETE MAROVICH??? I can't believe he isn't on ANY of your lists.

[Leetonidas]

They're just talking about people they like watching. Tim Duncan was amazing to watch when he was young, especially in college.

Manu and TP are ankle breakers. Manu does some of the craziest shit with the ball I've ever seen.

[TDMVPDPOY]

td
gino
drob
ewing
tmac
yao
............tp and jordan are respectively at the very bottom of my list.

[Darrin]

This isn't even close for me...

The trio of Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek and Tom Chambers

Over the three years they played with each other, they averaged over 60 points per game. In 89-90, the trio averaged nearly 70 per game with 18 assists per game on 52% shooting from the field.

The the team equivalent of the three-man weave. They knew where each other were at all points on the floor and just played beautifully of each other.

Over the three years, it was one of the scariest trios in the League. Capable of going against any in the League.

Among today's athletes, I like watching Rip Hamilton. I love motion offense and the Pistons execute it great.

That's part of the reason I like watching Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups so much because they are so involved in getting the ball to Rip in his sweet spots and clearing 5-8 feet between him and his defender. It's just beautiful basketball.

I know Chambers and Johnson were, but was Horny on that 1989 team that made it to the Conference Finals?

[Extra Stout]

so many of you guys are total freakin homers... NO WAY is Tim Duncan, Bruce Bowen, Manu Ginobili, or Tony Parker EVEN CLOSE to being as interesting as guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Dr. J, Kareem, Oscar Robertson, and many others. and where the hell is PETE MAROVICH??? I can't believe he isn't on ANY of your lists.
:rolleyes The subject of the thread is "who do you enjoy watching all-time?" OF COURSE players from our favorite team are going to be near the top.

[Darrin]

:rolleyes The subject of the thread is "who do you enjoy watching all-time?" OF COURSE players from our favorite team are going to be near the top.

Well said. I have this saying that I forget where it came from: "We see the world not as it is, but as we are." So no one ever gains any ground by arguing "who's the best" especially with people who NEVER SAW A PLAYER PLAY.

Asking someone's favorite eliminates that tedious exercise.

[Darrin]

Manu and TP are ankle breakers. Manu does some of the craziest shit with the ball I've ever seen.

Do you enjoy watching Allen Iverson and Dwyane Wade?

[JMarkJohns]

I know Chambers and Johnson were, but was Horny on that 1989 team that made it to the Conference Finals?

For the season, he averaged 17 points. For the playoffs, 18 in 16 games...


Always enjoyed Reggie Miller as well.

Hakeem was always my favorite big man to watch.

[1Parker1]

oh my gosh! I just realized I left off my Allen Iverson!!!!!!!!!!!!! What was I thinking? :oops

He should be #3 on my list, after Miller.

[snowboarder]

1. Amare

[Guru of Nothing]

Bobby Jones

and Moses Malone, Dr. J, Andrew Toney, and Maurice Cheeks.

And sticking with the theme, Charles Barkely's first few years with the Sixers were FANtastic.

... and Magic Johnson.

[baseline bum]

Crap... I can't believe I forgot Amare! AI is one of my fav players, but I'm bored to death watching the Sixers. They used to be great to watch when they played D, but now they're Chamin-soft.

[Darrin]

The Sixers seem to have gotten caught up in getting Iverson a second scorer that they lost their winning formula. George Lynch, Theo Ratliff, Dikembe Mutombo, Eric Snow, Raja Bell, Tyrone Hill...when I say these names, they aren't stars. They aren't going to score more than 10 points in a given game. But when it comes to the defensive end, they were stars. Having guys who only took pride in the defensive side of the ball meant that no one complained about playing with Iverson offensively, they cleared room for him on shots by setting picks, etc. and they could stop anyone. Anyone.

I hate watching that team now, and really have since 2002-03. A Keith Van Horn on offense who plays defense like George Lynch...that would be a great player to compliment Iverson. That's not Andre Iguodala, and I think they had that player in Matt Harpring. Their team defense has sucked since Mutombo.

On topic, one player I forgot was Matt Harpring.

[JamStone]

I started following basketball in the mid 1980s ...


MY TOP 25

1. Magic Johnson (no one else mentioned Magic???)
2. Sir Charles Barkley
3. Isiah Thomas
4. Allen Iverson
5. Vince Carter
6. Dominique Wilkins
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Chris Webber
10. Michael Jordan (only his last few Bulls seasons because I hated him for a long time)
11. Glen Rice
12. Jason Kidd
13. Ray Allen (purely to watch his jumpshot)
14. Kevin Johnson
15. Penny Hardaway
16. Kobe Bryant
17. Steve Smith
18. Dennis Rodman
19. Shaquille O'Neal
20. Rasheed Wallace (more so for the on court hilarity)
21. Earl Boykins
22. Tim Hardaway
23. Jason Kidd
24. John Starks (loved John Starks and don't even know why)
25. LeBron James (I suspect he'll climb up my list over the next few years)

[1Parker1]

The Sixers seem to have gotten caught up in getting Iverson a second scorer that they lost their winning formula. George Lynch, Theo Ratliff, Dikembe Mutombo, Eric Snow, Raja Bell, Tyrone Hill...when I say these names, they aren't stars. They aren't going to score more than 10 points in a given game. But when it comes to the defensive end, they were stars. Having guys who only took pride in the defensive side of the ball meant that no one complained about playing with Iverson offensively, they cleared room for him on shots by setting picks, etc. and they could stop anyone. Anyone.

I hate watching that team now, and really have since 2002-03. A Keith Van Horn on offense who plays defense like George Lynch...that would be a great player to compliment Iverson. That's not Andre Iguodala, and I think they had that player in Matt Harpring. Their team defense has sucked since Mutombo.

On topic, one player I forgot was Matt Harpring.

That's not the Sixers problem. Believe me. Igodala and Korver are studs compared to those guys. And Webber, even hobbled is much needed. Dalembert is Dalembert....I think it's the fact that Cheeks can't coach to save his life.

[Leetonidas]

Do you enjoy watching Allen Iverson and Dwyane Wade?

I don't like seeing AI take 29 shots and make 10 of them, but I do respect him a great deal and his game. Wade is awesome too.

[jochhejaam]

Too many Pistons players to mention
Dr. J
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
MJ
Dennis Rodman
Dominique
David Robinson
Darryl Dawkins
Earl Monroe
Bill Walton

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Quick list that comes to mind, in no particular order and I might have left some of my favourite players out:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Tim Duncan
5. David Robinson
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. John Stockton
10. Denis Rodman
11. Bruce Bowen
12. Ron Artest
13. Allen Iverson
14. Charles Barkley
15. Scottie Pippen
16. Dominique Wilkins
17. Jason Kidd
18. Reggie Miller
19. Manu Ginobili
20. Steve Nash
21. Arvydas Sabonis
22. Drazen Petrovic
23. Julius Erving
24. Ben Wallace
25. Alonzo Mourning
26. Dikembre Mutombo
27. Gary Payton
28. Joe Dumars
29. Dominique Wilkins
30. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[slayermin]

Magic Johnson
Bernard King
Julius Erving
Bobby Jones
World B. Free
Marques Johnson
Dominique Wilkins
Ralph Sampson
Alvin Robertson
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Adams
Chris Mullin
Charles Barkley
Dennis Rodman
Shawn Kemp
Jason Kidd
Manu Ginobili
Tim Duncan
Vince Carter
Ben Wallace
Steve Nash

[Spurminator]

Not going to try to make the order complete... Keep in mind I started watching in the early 90's.

Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Michael Jordan
Manu Ginobili
Reggie Miller
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwan
Shawn Kemp (young)
Ben Wallace
Vince Carter
Dirk Nowitzki
Shawn Marion
Earl Boykins
Andrei Kirilenko
Tony Parker
Tim Duncan
Bruce Bowen
Rasheed Wallace
Robert Horry (esp. as a Rocket)
Alonzo Mourning

[Darrin]

That's not the Sixers problem. Believe me. Igodala and Korver are studs compared to those guys. And Webber, even hobbled is much needed. Dalembert is Dalembert....I think it's the fact that Cheeks can't coach to save his life.

I don't think so. I watched that team play the Pistons in last year's playoffs, I didn't fear them in the least.

Kyle Korver can score, but he cannot guard anyone. I point to Rip Hamilton's 37 points on 16-24 shooting on opening night. He's a Steve Kerr-type role player. Samuel Dalembert has the skills to be the best defensive center in the league, but his timing on blocked shots, his positioning for rebounding, and defending the pick-and-pop make him a raw if not disappointing prospect. That's why Dalembert was benched recently for Steven Hunter. Their frontline defense stinks, and really has since those guys I just mentioned. People forget, so here's a little reminder:

Theo Ratliff: 12.4 ppg, 8.3 rpg, and 3.74 bpg. (ALL-STAR STARTER)
Tyrone Hill: 9.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg, .49 spg.
George Lynch: 8.4 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.21 spg
Allen Iverson: 31.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.6 apg, 2.51 spg (MVP)
Eric Snow: 9.8 ppg, 7.4 apg, 1.54 spg.
Aaron McKie: 11.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.39 spg (SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR)
Matt Geiger: 6.1 ppg, 4.0 rpg
Rodney Buford: 5.3 ppg, 1.6 rpg.

Steals: They had the 2nd (Iverson), 30th (McKie), 39th (Lynch), and 82nd (Snow) leaders in steals in 2000-01. Brown pressured the ball everywhere. Everyone was lanky with quick hands. Lynch was their Bruce Bowen, Snow the one-man press, and Iverson was the man playing the passing lanes.

Rebounding: Ratliff would've been the hands-down Defensive Player of the Year, leading the league in blocks. As it stood, the 2nd (Mutombo), 23rd (Hill), 34th (Lynch), and 72nd (Ratliff, never played a game with ATL in 2001) rebounders in in the league.

Overall: The team had the third best defense in the league. Iverson was asked to score, but the rest of the team was asked to hit open jumpshots, nothing more. They would establish some post sets, but then it was screen after screen for Iverson and Snow for them to make plays. They were a great road team (27-14). For a bunch of scrubs, they sure did play exceptionally well defensively. Much better than the overrated trio of Korver, Dalembert, and Iguodala.

Another lesson on the "reputation" of a player versus their results:

With Mutombo:
2000-01 Season: 15-12
2001 postseason:12-11
Total: 27-23 (.540)

With Ratliff
2000-01 Season: 36-14 (.720)

[1Parker1]

^:lmao Who the hell said I think the Sixers are good enough to beat the Pistons?! My point was that they are good enough to not be struggling below .500 for yet another season. No way are they contenders in any way.

Look at it this way. Compare the Sixers team to the Lakers. Kobe and AI more or less cancel eachother out....now tell me of the surrounding cast, which do you think has the better players? Lakers with guys like Odom, Luke Walton, Sasha, George, etc....or the Sixers with Webber, Igodala, Korver, Dalambert, etc??? I'd take the Sixers supporting cast of the Lakers any day of the week. Yet, the Lakers are holding the 7th playoff spot in the Western conference, above .500.........yet the Sixers are struggling to keep their 8th playoff spot in the Eastern conference, below .500.

[Darrin]

^:lmao Who the hell said I think the Sixers are good enough to beat the Pistons?! My point was that they are good enough to not be struggling below .500 for yet another season. No way are they contenders in any way.

I didn't say they could beat the Pistons. I watch 29 teams play the Pistons every season. If the Pistons had been matched up with the Wizards, a team with one scoring machine and didn't beat the Pistons in the regular season of 04-05, it would've been a tougher series despite the Wizards only having 2 more wins than the Sixers last season.


Look at it this way. Compare the Sixers team to the Lakers. Kobe and AI more or less cancel eachother out....now tell me of the surrounding cast, which do you think has the better players? Lakers with guys like Odom, Luke Walton, Sasha, George, etc....or the Sixers with Webber, Igodala, Korver, Dalambert, etc??? I'd take the Sixers supporting cast of the Lakers any day of the week. Yet, the Lakers are holding the 7th playoff spot in the Western conference, above .500.........yet the Sixers are struggling to keep their 8th playoff spot in the Eastern conference, below .500.

I'd take the Lakers to be honest. George has been a solid defender this season and lightyears ahead of Korver in that respect. There are more consistent options in terms of hitting open shots around Kobe than Iverson. And for as much crap as Odom gets for not being a 25, 7, and 5 guy every night, he doesn't need to ball in his hands to be effective the way an immobile Chris Webber must. I'm suprised you went as deep into the bench as Luke Walton, and forgot two starters in Chris Mihm and Smush Parker. The only two players I would take off the Sixers are John Salmons and Samuel Dalembert. Plus, the Lakers supporting cast isn't signed to long-term contracts because the Lakers don't think Smush and Walton and George are the longterm answers in their current roles. Only Kobe, Kwame, Sasha, and Bynum are under contract past 2008.

This is exactly where I thought they would be - a 37-42 win ballclub. Iverson and Webber need the ball to be effective. That doesn't work because, since 2001, Iverson hasn't let anyone dribble that basketball. They don't run him off catch-and-shoots that made him a great shooting guard.