Ben Wallace Refuses to Enter Game

[Rummpd]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/SPORTS0102/604090344/1127/rss13



How would Pop handle this, how will Flip? Personnally I would sit his *&^ one game but then again I coach kids, not pros.

I like Ben as a player and a person, including his story of be undrafted to make the pros in a huge way* (and is an under-rated near superstar) but even he should not pull this rubbish. *Similar to Bowen's story, but with 3 DOPs Wallace is the more accomplished player at least on individual accomplishments, although I like Bowen far better.

Doubt it will have a huge effect on that strong team, but interesting dynamics.

[samikeyp]

Wow. I have always liked Ben Wallace but that is bullshit. I would imagine that Sheed, Rip and the boys will have something to say about that.

[1Parker1]

That's BS. I doubt Pop would stand for that, btw, he'd be in the doghouse in a second.

I'm surprised this never happened when Larry Brown was coaching. I would think that Flip would be the more easy going coach and that the players would have clashed more often with Larry. Anyways, that is very childish behavior, especially this late into the season, and especially coming from the captain of the team. Grow up. Pistons biggest asset and downfall is their passion and emotions. Sometimes playing with that kind of emotion is good for the energy of the team, but it also results in too much frustration, techs, and stupid fights like this one.

I wonder what Sheed or Rip would have said to Ben if they were at the game...

[exstatic]

Wow. That's garbage. You refuse to re-enter the game, and your team loses by two to the Orlando Tragic? That's fucked up. The guys are saying all of the right things, but shit like that doesn't go away. How monumentally immature, and YES I'd say the same thing about ANY Spur who did such a thing...

[Marklar MM]

That's BS. I doubt Pop would stand for that, btw, he'd be in the doghouse in a second.

I'm surprised this never happened when Larry Brown was coaching. I would think that Flip would be the more easy going coach and that the players would have clashed more often with Larry. Anyways, that is very childish behavior, especially this late into the season, and especially coming from the captain of the team. Grow up. Pistons biggest asset and downfall is their passion and emotions. Sometimes playing with that kind of emotion is good for the energy of the team, but it also results in too much frustration, techs, and stupid fights like this one.

I wonder what Sheed or Rip would have said to Ben if they were at the game...


Sheed was there. He didn't want to go back in either.

[boutons_]

Chemistry problems?

Wheels coming of yet another Detroit vehicle?

[polandprzem]

Wow. That's garbage. You refuse to re-enter the game, and your team loses by two to the Orlando Tragic? That's fucked up. The guys are saying all of the right things, but shit like that doesn't go away. How monumentally immature, and YES I'd say the same thing about ANY Spur who did such a thing...

And Bowen i kicking his opponents in the back. Is that fair?



---
Okay, but we don't know what happened. All we know is that he refuses to come back in the game and his relations with Flip are not so great. we don't know the trainings, we don't know what is going on in the locker rooms...

[TDMVPDPOY]

fatigue is proberly takin a toll on the them, arent teh pisstons starts avg +40mpg....they are leadin us by a few games, they can afford to rest.

[FreshPrince22]

I'll wait to hear the story from someone else before I get too pissed at Ben. McCosky is a joke. I bet there is more to the situation.

And as I recall, the last time Ben did something like this (after the Utah game) the team won 9 straight and 22 of their next 24 games.

[FreshPrince22]

fatigue is proberly takin a toll on the them, arent teh pisstons starts avg +40mpg....they are leadin us by a few games, they can afford to rest.

No, Ben was actually pissed that Flip took him out.

And no, the starters average around 36 minutes each. Ben averages a whopping 0.6mpg more than Tim "Plantar Fascitis" Duncan. The minutes issue is vastly overblown. No one is even close to 40 minutes per game.

[spurschick]

Ben averages a whopping 0.6mpg more than Tim "Plantar Fascitis" Duncan.

:nope Tim didn't ask for plantar fasciitis, would never refuse to play in a game and wouldn't cop attitude with his coach. I think that Ben Wallace is a good basketball player, but he pales in comparison to Tim both on and off the court.

[jochhejaam]

Everyone makes mistakes and Ben made one here, he seems to me to be a man of good character so I'll hope that he apoligized to the team and the coach. I doubt Flip's going to suspend him this late in the season, that would probably add fuel to a small fire.
Joe and Flip will do the right thing.

(Can't we all just get along :) )

[exstatic]

And Bowen i kicking his opponents in the back. Is that fair?

Vaginitis was laying on his other foot, I didn't like it, but Bruce kicking (actually, it was more like a foot push) Vaginitis isn't likely to make his teammmates wonder about his commitment, or his relationship with his coach. TOTALLY different situation.

[samikeyp]

Joche said it best...I really don't think there will be a suspension. There at least should be a fine. Fine him, give the money to charity and move on. There was no excuse for what he did though.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ben is tryin to be like snaq now, whats next? "pay me" :D

[polandprzem]

Vaginitis was laying on his other foot, I didn't like it, but Bruce kicking (actually, it was more like a foot push) Vaginitis isn't likely to make his teammmates wonder about his commitment, or his relationship with his coach. TOTALLY different situation.

It is.

But maybe, just maybe people are doing mistakes :)





(I was defending Bruce in that one btw.)

[spurschick]

ben is tryin to be like snaq now, whats next? "pay me" :D

Actually, yes. Ben's a free agent this summer.

[ALVAREZ6]

Big Ben to the Spurs!

[FreshPrince22]

:nope Tim didn't ask for plantar fasciitis, would never refuse to play in a game and wouldn't cop attitude with his coach. I think that Ben Wallace is a good basketball player, but he pales in comparison to Tim both on and off the court.

You totally ignored the only point to why I said that. The person I replied to said fatigue with those starters playing "40+ minutes" per game, and implied that the reason why he did this. I was simply pointing out that Ben only plays 0.6 minutes per game more than Tim Duncan, who is injured. People love to talk about the Pistons starters playing so many minutes, but when you look at them individually they don't play any more minutes than other all-star players play. In fact, they play less than most all-stars in the league.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Ben is mad this is a good thing look for a big game today from him.

[IX_Equilibrium]

I always liked Wallace. I can't believe he pulled a pansy bullshit move like that. Saunders needs to prove he has a pair and suspend him.

[ALVAREZ6]

After we repeat, trade Nazr + Finley + rights to Scola for Big Ben.

Or, any way we could get him without giving up Tim, Tony, or Many, would be amazing.



http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/4364/benwallacespurs8na.png

[himat]

Shut up. Ben barley ever does that, and he'll make up for it. There is no chemistry problems he was just frustrated.

[leemajors]

wow, that sounded really odd. sounds like there is more to it, i can't believe the article was that long without the linchpin to the situation. something really had to have pissed ben off to make him do that.

[JamStone]

Veteran. Captain. Leader.

You don't pull that crap on your team. Even if you have a beef with the coach, you don't do that to your teammates. That's selfish. That's unprofessional. That's disrespectful.

That's something Darius Miles would do.

I'm very disappointed.

[exstatic]

Refusing to re-enter a game shows at least a chemistry problem between that player and the coach.

[ShoogarBear]

Shut up. Ben barley ever does that, and he'll make up for it. There is no chemistry problems he was just frustrated.
There a big difference between "barely ever" and "never".

That was a Scottie Pippen move by Ben. (That should hit home with Piston fans.)

[SAGambler]

Sheed was there. He didn't want to go back in either.

That's the way I heard it. And fans on the Pistons board was talking about it. Both Wallaces refused to go back in. I saw something about how they wanted Darko to do this or that and win the game. I don't know.

But I did hear they both refused to go back in.

[JamStone]

Rasheed experienced back spasms. I think Rasheed not playing was more of a precautionary measure, not a refusal to play.

[FreshPrince22]

Refusing to re-enter a game shows at least a chemistry problem between that player and the coach.

Ben didn't like Carlisle or Larry either.

[exstatic]

Ben didn't like Carlisle or Larry either.

That may well be. I was refuting Himat's contention that there were "no chemistry problems". His angry denial shows that he knows there are, but doesn't want to admit it.

[JamStone]

Ben liked Larry Brown the first season. He started not to like Larry when all the Cleveland rumors started to take away from the attention and focus of the team.

[anthologyct]

fatigue is proberly takin a toll on the them, arent teh pisstons starts avg +40mpg....they are leadin us by a few games, they can afford to rest.

No Piston is in the top 30 in minutes played. And in fact, only Billups is in the top 40.

[angel_luv]

Not that it is an excuse but Ben W must have been having a very bad day. I bet that was the first and last time.

I do think that is pretty lame of him. Everyone has to work when they are sick and tired. But I have compassion on Ben W for the same reason- some days you just don't want to go into work.

[genghisrex]

Sheed was there. He didn't want to go back in either.
So in other words Ben was just saying, "I've got your back (spams)"? Sounds like team building to me.

[jochhejaam]

Just reported on the pregame that Ben said he hasn't talked to Flip about the incident (that seems bizarre) and has offered no apologies...? He said he was frustrated and Flip knew why and he intends to make amends on the court today.

He said he did talk to the players on the plane about it.

[angel_luv]

Ben W is lucky Dallas beat us. His not going in could have been a costly mistake.

Big picture Ben Wallace!

[Pistons < Spurs]

Ben screwed up. That was a complete bitch move. But, it's over. I'm sure he's talked to the players. No need to overreact. There won't be any suspensions. If anything, you may see Bens point proved more so than Flips'. I expect a lot more energy from the guys vs the Pacers....especially in the beginning of the game. You will also see Ben used more offensively.

We've seen Ben have minor tantrums before...but to refuse to re-enter a game is a new one. But to get all worried about chemistry, or fatigue is silly.

It was one bad moment on one bad night. By now it's history. Today is a new game.

[samikeyp]

I tend to agree. If this was just a one time thing, then I really don't think it will bother the Pistons at all.

[genghisrex]

If anything, you may see Bens point proved more so than Flips'. I expect a lot more energy from the guys vs the Pacers....especially in the beginning of the game. You will also see Ben used more offensively.
I mostly agree with what you wrote, but what was Flip's point? From the article it didn't sound like he was posturing; it just sounded like he wanted to give Ben some rest before a final push at the end of the game.

[Pistons < Spurs]

I mostly agree with what you wrote, but what was Flip's point?

Honestly....I don't know. There has to be 2 sides to the story.......but we don't know Flip's take on it........luckily, he seems to be keeping it and his coments in the locker room.

[jochhejaam]

Ben said he spoke to the players on the plane and I assume that Flip and Joe ride the same plane so what ever Ben said to the players was probably heard by them and was sufficient to prevent a suspension.

You can bet that Joe and Flip talked about the incident and no suspension resulted. Good enough for me.

[bdubya]

I'm not gonna start passing judgement on Ben or Flip over one report (from McCoskey :rolleyes ) of one isolated incident. Usually when Ben gets mad enough to show it, big things happen; this could be another version of "Let them think they had a good season."

[WalterBenitez]

I don't like my Boss, but he's the Boss ... so Flip need to make a point sitting Mr Wallace

Pop probably would kick Mr B ass right at that moment ...

[zeleni]

I don't like my Boss, but he's the Boss ... so Flip need to make a point sitting Mr Wallace

Pop probably would kick Mr B ass right at that moment ...

Pop is just more of a people's person.

I had an idea about the Flip..

Flip didn't changed at all since his Rasho days. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=732463&postcount=107)

Larry Brown is a legend, even when he is coaching the Knicks with one horrible crowd. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=732414&postcount=101)

[exstatic]

Ben liked Larry Brown the first season. He started not to like Larry when all the Cleveland rumors started to take away from the attention and focus of the team.


You see, I can understand that, though. What Larry did was a bitch move. Trolling for another job during the Finals is like going on a date with another woman on your honeymoon. Larry Brown is a whore. The only time he's not actively trying to leave his current job and look for a new one is when he's asleep, and even then, he probably dreams of a different job. He's already hinting that NY should fire him (if he quits, he doesn't get another dime).

[FreshPrince22]

Big Ben with 12 rebounds (6 offensive) At the Half against the Pacers.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Big Ben with 12 rebounds (6 offensive) At the Half against the Pacers.


yeah, amazing what he can do when he plays up to his abilities.....

It's just a damn shame it took him acting like an ASS before he decided to show up in a first half.

[bonesinaz]

I don't like my Boss, but he's the Boss ... so Flip need to make a point sitting Mr Wallace

Pop probably would kick Mr B ass right at that moment ...


You are right, the boss is the boss, or in this case the coach. If you let your players pout and refuse to play, you have lost respect.

Ben should have gotten off his butt and played his heart out.

[FreshPrince22]

Ben with 20 boards (9 offensive) after three quarters.

[jochhejaam]

One frustration Ben Wallace will voice loud and clear, though, is with the way the Pistons are playing. Though they are winning, and though they played a mostly solid game at Miami on Thursday, he is bothered by what he calls, "garbage basketball", particularly early in games.

...This is hardly a new rant from Ben Wallace. He went off on the same issue earlier in the season and it helped sparked the team's 37-5 start.

Ben called out the starters with the above statement and he felt they weren't playing up to their capabilities in the game against Orlando after he made the statement.
Sounds like Ben was more pissed with the players than with Flip, that makes more sense to me than being pissed with Flip.

Captain had to get the attention of the crew in a big way, seems to be working against Indiana.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Ben called out the starters with the above statement and he felt they weren't playing up to their capabilities in the game against Orlando after he made the statement.
Sounds like Ben was more pissed with the players than with Flip, that makes more sense to me than being pissed with Flip.

Captain had to get the attention of the crew in a big way, seems to be working against Indiana.


Nope, na ah, no way. I cannot excuse, or defend his actions. Regardless of his intentions, you do not leave your teamates stranded out there by refusing to go out and play.

And in reality, the only person I see playing with more energy and determination than any other game lately, is Ben himself, not his teamates.

Ben is the one that needed to step up, not the other guys.

[jochhejaam]

Nope, na ah, no way. I cannot excuse, or defend his actions. Regardless of his intentions, you do not leave your teamates stranded out there by refusing to go out and play. And in reality, the only person I see playing with more energy and determination than any other game lately, is Ben himself, not his teamates.

I see what you're saying but I think Ben feels like the players are abandoning him out there or at least not playing with the intensity that they are capable of.
I don't defend his actions but Flip apparentlly understood his frustations were leveled at the players and not at him. Just my take on it to this point.

This is one of the better efforts (along with the Dallas game) that I've seen from the Pistons in quite some time.

[DarkReign]

You all are making waaaaaaay too much out of this. Shit happens. Tomorrow is another day. 1 week from now, you wont even remember it.

Thats how much it "affected" the team. Its something out of nothing.

[anthologyct]

You all are making waaaaaaay too much out of this. Shit happens. Tomorrow is another day. 1 week from now, you wont even remember it.

Thats how much it "affected" the team. Its something out of nothing.


22rbs, (9 offensive) .............. Doesn't seem like a problem to me!

[Pistons < Spurs]

I see what you're saying but I think Ben feels like the players are abandoning him out there.
I don't defend his actions but Flip apparentlly understood his frustations were leveled at the players and not at him. Just my take on it to this point.

This is one of the better efforts (along with the Dallas game) that I've seen from the Pistons in quite some time.


While I have hated the number of sluggish starts we've had lately, I can't support Ben's positions too much. IMO Ben has been the only lacking in the opening quarters. I haven't seen the aggressive play. I've missed his tenacity.
IMO todays game is a perfect example. He came out w/ something to prove...and lo and behold he grabs 22 boards....(his first 20+ game this year)....and we win by 20+ points.
Prior to todays game, Ben has averaged 8.4 rebounds in his last 5 games. Thats unacceptable.
I don't think he has any room to be calling out the other players based on their and his performances.

As I said before, he fucked up...but it's not that big of a deal. No need for anyone (including the media who mentioned it like 12 times during the game) to overreact.

In post game commetns Ben actually said something like.....I don't look at the past. I just try to learn from my mistakes........it's not the best of apologies I ever heard, but I guess it's something!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I seriously lost all respect for Ben after this shit! what a fucking moron!

[Pistons < Spurs]

I seriously lost all respect for Ben after this shit! what a fucking moron!


That's what I mean by OVERREACTING.....

[midgetonadonkey]

The dude lost his temper. Big deal. Everybody loses their cool every once and a while and does shit that is uncharacteristic. I have not lost any respect for him, I do believe he may have cost his team the game by not coming back in just because of the impact he has, but I still respect the dude.

[1Parker1]

You all are making waaaaaaay too much out of this. Shit happens. Tomorrow is another day. 1 week from now, you wont even remember it.

Thats how much it "affected" the team. Its something out of nothing.


Well you are right about that. Although if you really think about it, it is a big deal in the sense that it very unprofessional of him to do so, especially considering he's the captain or whatever. But, I don't think it's that big of a deal...won't affect the Pistons chances of winning or anything.

[Darrin]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/SPORTS0102/604090344/1127/rss13



How would Pop handle this, how will Flip? Personnally I would sit his *&^ one game but then again I coach kids, not pros.

I like Ben as a player and a person, including his story of be undrafted to make the pros in a huge way* (and is an under-rated near superstar) but even he should not pull this rubbish. *Similar to Bowen's story, but with 3 DOPs Wallace is the more accomplished player at least on individual accomplishments, although I like Bowen far better.

Doubt it will have a huge effect on that strong team, but interesting dynamics.


When it comes to my favorite Pistons, Joe Dumars and Ben Wallace are one and one-A. I think both of them carry themselves with a lot of dignity and competitiveness.

I think this is an interesting problem that appears to be developing. This is the third incident that seems out of character for Ben Wallace, and it's not about Big Ben. Joe D has been backing him. This has been about Flip Saunders. I think that in order for Big Ben and Flip to co-exist, the Pistons are going to have to hire a defensive coordinator. There's been a lot of talk about their offense this season, and that's because the emphasis of the coaching staff has changed for the first time in Wallace's career with the Pistons. Even George Irvine was big and would bench guys if they didn't play defense. It's why Billly Owens and John Wallace couldn't get minutes over Mike Curry.

Also, I think that Big Ben and Chauncey respect each other, but they may not like each other a lot. Billups usually refers to Wallace as 'quiet.' Chauncey said we had a 'good season no matter the outcome' of the Pistons-Magic series after game 4 when Detroit was down 3-1. Ben Wallace responded by saying "They can go ahead and think we had a good season. We didn't."

Having a coach that is so close to Chauncey may be causing some problems for Wallace. I'm speculating, but if I had to choose two Pistons that have indicated they are not all that close, although it doesn't ruin their relationship on-the-court, it's probably those two guys.

But when I say that, it's not like I am calling them the next "Kobe-Shaq." Magic and Kareem didn't get along to the tune of 5 championships, eight conference titles, and appearing in every conference finals of the 1980s. They can co-exist and respect each other because they are mature human beings who realize you don't always click with everybody on the team.

This is about minutes. Ben Wallace has a Iverson-like attitude towards being off the court. He sprained his ankle in 2001, with the season already deciding the Pistons were eliminated from the playoffs, he played on the injury even when George Irvine ordered him to sit down. It took him six games to come back from an MCL sprain that keeps most guys out 1-3 months. He was pissed off about the appendicitis (sp?) he suffered from in the 2004 offseason because it meant he had to have surgery, something he has tried to avoid. The man doesn't like missing time, and the most of the games he has missed have had to do with deaths in the family. In his time with the Pistons he has missed two games to losing his Grandmother (April, 2001), two games to losing his mother (February, 2003), and four games to losing his oldest brother (November, 2004). He had just come back from that last death when he was suspended six games for pushing Ron Artest.

I guarantee that his reaction was due to Flip managing for the playoffs and not for trying to win the game with Orlando. I guarantee that ontop of the fatigue and stress, that is what set him off.

Let's also remember the contract that Ben Wallace is playing on, one that pays him 5.6 million in guaranteed money, and carrots for blocks and rebounds, defensive player of the years, and team wins. I'm guessing at what the specifics are. But he's a very goal-oriented person, and that cuts down on the monotomy of the season.

That being said, I think Wallace reacted poorly and should be punished accordingly - fines, a mild suspension - whatever the team sees as appropriate.

[Chris]

Ah, I think the real question is will Big Ben pull this shit when it counts - during a playoff game .

[1Parker1]

I never heard of any remote probs between Billups and Ben...

[Rummpd]

He came back very strong today perhaps letting some frustrations out. I keep wondering why this story has not gotten more play=perhaps writer overblew as some suggest above??

[Pistons < Spurs]

I keep wondering why this story has not gotten more play=perhaps writer overblew as some suggest above??


See, I feel just the opposite. I cannot beleive that every question today during the game was on this incident. This is biggest NON story there is.

IMO It's already way to far overblown for such a minor event.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Ben called out the starters with the above statement and he felt they weren't playing up to their capabilities in the game against Orlando after he made the statement.
Sounds like Ben was more pissed with the players than with Flip, that makes more sense to me than being pissed with Flip.

Captain had to get the attention of the crew in a big way, seems to be working against Indiana.
I see, so he is pissed at his teammates for playing "grabage basketball" so he decides he won't come back in to finish the game??

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT??????

[Kori Ellis]

It sucks that he did it, but I'm sure it was an isolated incident and won't happen again. Ben is a team first guy; he just obviously let his frustrations rule in that situation.

[slayermin]

Wow. Everything is on cruise control for the Pistons and Big Ben pulls this? If this is a calculated move, I think it's idiotic on his part. It's a huge risk to dent the ego and confidence of your NEW head coach trying to live up to championship expectations.

I can just see Flip walking the sideline talking to himself.

"What is Ben's body language like? Is he gonna be pissed at me if I take him out of the game? How about Chancey? Should I tell him that was a bad shot? Jeez, Sheed, another tech? I guess I will just keep it to myself."

He's already setup to be the scapegoat.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

the media is a joke....

Wallace does this and he gets a an excuse ridden story with no hate but when Melo did this one time, the media was all over it and hating on him and questioning his attitude............

no suprise though, the media has double standards with alot of things. I guess they just wanted to make their 'golden boy' Lebron look even better

good to see that Big ben responded with a monster game on the boards

[MaNuMaNiAc]

yeah, its funny how its never the players fault. I think Ben should be benched for at least 2 games to teach a lesson. Although I'm not sure they can afford that. Maybe he knows this.

[jochhejaam]

I see, so he is pissed at his teammates for playing "grabage basketball" so he decides he won't come back in to finish the game??

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT??????

:lol Calm down my friend that's just speculation on my part since no one in the know is talking..

[kris]

The players run that team. Flip Saunders is there because someone has to stand on the sidelines and lobby for calls.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

:lol Calm down my friend that's just speculation on my part since no one in the know is talking..
I'm not mad at you, I'm dissapointed at Ben

[Marklar MM]

the media is a joke....

Wallace does this and he gets a an excuse ridden story with no hate but when Melo did this one time, the media was all over it and hating on him and questioning his attitude............

no suprise though, the media has double standards with alot of things. I guess they just wanted to make their 'golden boy' Lebron look even better

good to see that Big ben responded with a monster game on the boards


Carmelo refused to re-enter the game because his teammates questioned his shot selection. Ben refused to re-enter the game because he didn't want to be removed at the time he was.

Which is worse? I will let ya'll decide.

[ducks]

be intersting to see what happends
ben is a fa
will it be him or the coach?

[ducks]

the pistons have a lock to finish with first place
YOU SUSPEND HIM ATLEAST 2 games to teach him a lesson
YOU have to tell your players who is boss
and if ben leaves in fa so be it
ben is NOT with the max anyhow

[Pistons < Spurs]

Carmelo refused to re-enter the game because his teammates questioned his shot selection. Ben refused to re-enter the game because he didn't want to be removed at the time he was.

Which is worse? I will let ya'll decide.

IMO no difference...wrong is wrong.

Carmello was/is judged differently than Ben because of their histories.

[Pistons < Spurs]

will it be him or the coach?


They'll both still be in Detroit.

[1Parker1]

be intersting to see what happends
ben is a fa
will it be him or the coach?


Umm, if they win the championship, I doubt either will remember this. Like I said, I think people are blowing this a little out of proportion. Maybe if it happens again or something I can see it being a real problem. I saw them interview Ben today after the Pacers game and they asked him about it, and he said "I don't think about the past, it's over. I jsut want to get back on track and win games." So it seems like he's already put it behind him.

[Pistons < Spurs]

I doubt either will remember this. Like I said, I think people are blowing this a little out of proportion. .
:tu :tu :tu :tu :tu

[ducks]

like someone else said publically they are saying the right things but who knows what they are thinking

they might have but ben might also want win a ring and if he says publically he might want out then that becomes a BIGGER distaction right now to win that ring

[MaNuMaNiAc]

yeah, people might not remember, but the sure as hell should! a pro player can't start acting like a high school princess just because he feels like it! If he thinks the coach made a bad decision then he should discuss it like a normal, professional adult!! I really don't understand how people might think this kind of behavior is acceptable.

I'm not saying crucify him, I'm saying reprimend him! Bench his sorry ass!!

[Marklar MM]

like someone else said publically they are saying the right things but who knows what they are thinking

they might have but ben might also want win a ring and if he says publically he might want out then that becomes a BIGGER distaction right now to win that ring


...So because Ben wants to win a ring, he will say publically that he wants out of Detroit, causing them to not win the ring?

[FearDaFro]

You'll know Ben is thinking about leaving if he hires an agent.

Otherwise, its very clear that Ben isn't even THINKING about leaving this summer.

[Bruno]

You'll know Ben is thinking about leaving if he hires an agent.

Otherwise, its very clear that Ben isn't even THINKING about leaving this summer.

I can't imagine Ben leaving Detroit like I can't imagine Bruce leaving Spurs.

[ChumpDumper]

Depends on the lawyer he has.

It's pretty simple to see what kind of offer it will take from another team to get Ben as a free agent.

The max.

Why have an agent take 4% of that?

[scampers]

People are blowing this WAY out of proportion. It's like people are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find reasons why the Pistons suck. Yeah, Ben could of handled it better but like he said, "I learn from my mistakes." Ben and the rest of the Pistons played great today and I think they'll be just fine.

[FearDaFro]

Depends on the lawyer he has.

It's pretty simple to see what kind of offer it will take from another team to get Ben as a free agent.

The max.

Why have an agent take 4% of that?


If it was that simple, a lot of players in the NBA wouldn't have agents.

You hire an agent if you're looking to max your earnings or negotiate a move.

Dumars already has a contract offer for Ben, he just cant legally offer it yet.

All Ben wants to do is understand the wording, which is why he hired the lawyer.

[FearDaFro]

People are blowing this WAY out of proportion. It's like people are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find reasons why the Pistons suck.

Pretty much.

You expected different?

Ben's such a problem he went out and got 22 boards, 3 steals, 2 blocks and 4 assists today.

Yeah, he's having real problems right now, lol.

[ChumpDumper]

If it was that simple, a lot of players in the NBA wouldn't have agents.

You hire an agent if you're looking to max your earnings or negotiate a move.If the offer would be the max, you don't have to look to max your earnings, do you? Who is Tim Duncan's agent?
Dumars already has a contract offer for Ben, he just cant legally offer it yet.

All Ben wants to do is understand the wording, which is why he hired the lawyer.Yes, and Stephen Jackson would only play for Popovich.

I have it on tape!

I'm not saying Ben is going to leave, just that nothing is a sure thing.

[anthologyct]

When it comes to my favorite Pistons, Joe Dumars and Ben Wallace are one and one-A. I think both of them carry themselves with a lot of dignity and competitiveness.

I think this is an interesting problem that appears to be developing. This is the third incident that seems out of character for Ben Wallace, and it's not about Big Ben. Joe D has been backing him. This has been about Flip Saunders. I think that in order for Big Ben and Flip to co-exist, the Pistons are going to have to hire a defensive coordinator. There's been a lot of talk about their offense this season, and that's because the emphasis of the coaching staff has changed for the first time in Wallace's career with the Pistons. Even George Irvine was big and would bench guys if they didn't play defense. It's why Billly Owens and John Wallace couldn't get minutes over Mike Curry.

Also, I think that Big Ben and Chauncey respect each other, but they may not like each other a lot. Billups usually refers to Wallace as 'quiet.' Chauncey said we had a 'good season no matter the outcome' of the Pistons-Magic series after game 4 when Detroit was down 3-1. Ben Wallace responded by saying "They can go ahead and think we had a good season. We didn't."

Having a coach that is so close to Chauncey may be causing some problems for Wallace. I'm speculating, but if I had to choose two Pistons that have indicated they are not all that close, although it doesn't ruin their relationship on-the-court, it's probably those two guys.

But when I say that, it's not like I am calling them the next "Kobe-Shaq." Magic and Kareem didn't get along to the tune of 5 championships, eight conference titles, and appearing in every conference finals of the 1980s. They can co-exist and respect each other because they are mature human beings who realize you don't always click with everybody on the team.

This is about minutes. Ben Wallace has a Iverson-like attitude towards being off the court. He sprained his ankle in 2001, with the season already deciding the Pistons were eliminated from the playoffs, he played on the injury even when George Irvine ordered him to sit down. It took him six games to come back from an MCL sprain that keeps most guys out 1-3 months. He was pissed off about the appendicitis (sp?) he suffered from in the 2004 offseason because it meant he had to have surgery, something he has tried to avoid. The man doesn't like missing time, and the most of the games he has missed have had to do with deaths in the family. In his time with the Pistons he has missed two games to losing his Grandmother (April, 2001), two games to losing his mother (February, 2003), and four games to losing his oldest brother (November, 2004). He had just come back from that last death when he was suspended six games for pushing Ron Artest.

I guarantee that his reaction was due to Flip managing for the playoffs and not for trying to win the game with Orlando. I guarantee that ontop of the fatigue and stress, that is what set him off.

Let's also remember the contract that Ben Wallace is playing on, one that pays him 5.6 million in guaranteed money, and carrots for blocks and rebounds, defensive player of the years, and team wins. I'm guessing at what the specifics are. But he's a very goal-oriented person, and that cuts down on the monotomy of the season.

That being said, I think Wallace reacted poorly and should be punished accordingly - fines, a mild suspension - whatever the team sees as appropriate.


That's the biggest crock of horse bullshit I've ever heard in my life ........... Please!

If there were a National Enquirer for Sports, that Bullshit would lead the front page.

[GrandeDavid]

Maybe this could turn out to be a chink in their armor. Early sign of locker room cancer? I doubt it, but you never really know when dealing with multi-million dollar pro athletes.

[Dunc]

I don't think this is a big deal. We don't really know the root of it, we don't know it's been dealt with, we don't know how much of McCoskey's story is speculation. It sounds so unlike Ben that I really think there might be more to this than is being revealed. If not, and it is just that Ben got pissed at Flip and the way they've been playing early in games, so be it. Ben fucked up. He's not going to be suspended, he's not going to be benched, and it's not going to matter much in the long run. Bottom line, the only reason this is a big story is because it's *so* far out of character for Big Ben, so until we hear something a little more substantial, I'm going to wait to offer and judgement.

[Dunc]

the media is a joke....

Wallace does this and he gets a an excuse ridden story with no hate but when Melo did this one time, the media was all over it and hating on him and questioning his attitude............

no suprise though, the media has double standards with alot of things. I guess they just wanted to make their 'golden boy' Lebron look even better

good to see that Big ben responded with a monster game on the boards

True, I can understand how the Melo thing could be part of a conspiracy to make LeBron look better. Right....

[ChumpDumper]

Well then, Flip is a pussy. You don't let that shit lie.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ben probaly was scared of darko, thats why he did wanna get back in.

[aaronstampler]

I don't think Ben is a max player. Rodman never got anything approaching the max when he was with the Bulls or us, and the two are pretty similar players. At the moment Ben is the Pistons' 4th best player, and in two years he'll be 5th.

I know points aren't everything and defense is important, but you can't give the max to an offensive liability. Bruce is making like 4 mil for crying out loud.

[ChumpDumper]

Ty Chandler is making $9 million this season to get 5 points per game.

[Darrin]

That's the biggest crock of horse bullshit I've ever heard in my life ........... Please!

If there were a National Enquirer for Sports, that Bullshit would lead the front page.

Wow, tell me how you really feel. I didn't pass this off as an authority, just as a guy with an opinion. Watching how the Pistons have responded to certain problems and glossed over them to keep a reputation as a franchise, I was trying to read the tea leaves. Man, why even bring attention to it if it was that bad?

[aaronstampler]

Ty Chandler is making $9 million this season to get 5 points per game.

two wrongs don't make a right Chump.

[ChumpDumper]

You act like it has never happened.

How many years did Deke get the max?

It is not out of the realm of possibility given this FA class.

[aaronstampler]

He's probably gonna get it, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying when it's all said and done, Dumars will wish he hadn't given it to him. That contract is gonna look real stupid by '08 when he's struggling to get 10 rebs/per and people are scoring on him at will.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Chemistry problems?

Wheels coming of yet another Detroit vehicle?

:lol :lol
speaking OF
when are they building a honda plant in SAN ANTONIO.... :drunk

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

ben probaly was scared of darko, thats why he did wanna get back in.lol ...

...or I think Darko holds a lot of secrets (possibly homoerotic) on the Pistons, and is using extortion on them one by one. How many pistons were missing from that lineup that night in the final quarter? Can't you just imagine Ben getting ready to come in and Darko on the court strike him the look: Flip: " Alright Ben, time to clock in.."
Ben: "hee, ok coa--...." catches Darko.
Flip: "well...??"
Ben shakes his head rapidly and doesn't budge.
Flip "Get the hell in there!"
continues shaking head...

[jochhejaam]

An article from the Det. News Apr 10

Rob Parker

Ben Wallace vents and Pistons listen, and both move on

AUBURN HILLS -- If this is disharmony, can we order some more for the postseason?

With the playoffs just around the corner, this season to remember isn't going down the tubes because of a loss in Orlando when Ben Wallace, the face of this franchise, refused to go into the game in the stretch drive.

If anything, what it showed is that this team is human. Things have run so smoothly around here that you almost think the players are robots.

In reality, everybody can't always be with the program all the time. Disharmony isn't a bad thing, especially if a player can put his teammates on notice and use it as motivation.

Clearly, that's what Wallace got.

Wallace had reason to be frustrated. In his three previous games before Sunday, Wallace hadn't played well offensively, averaging 3.3 points and making just 2 of 9 free throws. He just didn't feel a part of the offense

Wallace, as expected, had a big game against the Indiana Pacers on Sunday. He set season highs in rebounds (22) and offensive rebounds (nine), and he helped the Pistons to embarrass the Pacers, 98-73, at The Palace.

Stirring the pot

"It's good to have a shake-up every now and then," Lindsey Hunter said. "That's life."

While Wallace said he had no reason to apologize, he did acknowledge that he made a mistake.

"I have no regrets," Wallace said. "I put the past behind me. If you have regrets, you don't learn anything. You learn from the past and keep rolling."

Don't look at this just on the surface. It might appear as if this is a conflict between Wallace and coach Flip Saunders. Not true. Wallace's message was to the other four players who arguably make up the best starting five in the NBA.

Recently, Wallace thought things had reverted to when Rick Carlisle coached here. But Larry Brown changed all that when he got here.

For whatever reason, it just hadn't been the case recently and Big Ben let everybody know it wasn't going to continue. And while Wallace didn't score a lot Sunday -- just four points on five shots -- his teammates looked for him early and often with lobs at the basket against the Pacers.

"I told Ben when I talked to him that I have a lot of respect for him and everything he does," said Saunders, who never thought about suspending Wallace.

No folding his tent

Wallace's actions Sunday showed he's not just a man of words. He leads by example.

"These guys in the locker room know what I'm about," Wallace said. "There's no quit in me.

"I've been fighting all my life."

Indeed. That's why you knew there would be no carryover and that Wallace wouldn't continue to go against what he's all about. For sure, Wallace has a short menu: team and winning.

"You knew he was going to come out and play today," Hunter said. "That's Ben. That's our leader. As he goes, we go."

Sometimes, though, teammates need to be reminded of that.


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060410/SPORTS08/604100363/1127/SPORTS0102

[bdubya]

Nah, I think folks would rather hope that the wheels are coming off or that Flip is losing the team or something. :lol

Ben almost NEVER makes waves, and when he does, it's a sign that he's not satisfied with the team play. Like if they're down 3-1 in a series against the Magic, or routinely giving up double-digit leads in the first half, f'rinstance.

[DarkReign]

His teammates dont involve him. I understand that. I am sure Ben can understand his team not involving him in the 4th quarter (his God-awful FT%).

But he wants to be involved in the first 3 quarters. I dont blame him. Not one bit.

Its the Sheed and Chauncey high pick-n-roll show of endless 3pt attempts. That is a bullshit offense and it wont work in the playoffs.

You drama queens can knock Ben all you want. What he just did will probably influence the entire aspect of the team for the playoffs in a good way. None of this perimeter crap, goto the paint. Get it into Ben, let him pass out of the post, or let him make his move. Make the other team respect his offensive presence. Not that he is going to light it up, but at least respect the option.

Because if the other team doesnt respect his presence, they will learn to. He is athletic enough to beat any center on the 1st step and goto the rack hard.

I think that was his point. End of thread. No big deal.

[leemajors]

you know threads like this never end...

[pache100]

Nah, I think folks would rather hope that the wheels are coming off or that Flip is losing the team or something. :lol

Ben almost NEVER makes waves, and when he does, it's a sign that he's not satisfied with the team play. Like if they're down 3-1 in a series against the Magic, or routinely giving up double-digit leads in the first half, f'rinstance.

Ok. Then, you go out there and change it with your skill, your play, your leadership and you set examples. You don't refuse to play. That's chickenshit, no matter who you are, no matter who you play for. You can't change anything on the bench.

[freedom&justice]

only one thing really bugs me about it: if you're pissed at your teammates, why vent on your coach? Ben looked tired out there; flip wanted to get him some rest for down the stretch; what's the problem? I honestly never expected this kind of behavior from Ben - it's something I'd expect someone like Stephon Marbury to do, not him.
He's the team captain, and his refusing to go back in the game was detrimental to the team. It was a mistake, one that might have cost his team a W, especially without both Sheed and Rip.
He wants to be more involved on offense; fine, but teams are treating him the way they treat Shaq, putting him on the FT line to make him earn those points, and I think that's contributed to his teammates hesitating in giving him the ball. It is what it is.
I think he should apologize to Flip; he shouldn't have shown such blatant disrespect like that, but like Ben said, past is past, and as long as nothing like this happens again, I'll take it as a one-time, frustration-created thing they'll forget quickly.

[polandprzem]

:lol at bdubya's sig


---ben wallace is ben wallace, he will do whatever it takes to get a win, and he is emotional guy as well. (I know something abut that). It just happens. Now wityh 22 boards he showed what he is about

[pache100]

only one thing really bugs me about it: if you're pissed at your teammates, why vent on your coach? Ben looked tired out there; flip wanted to get him some rest for down the stretch; what's the problem? I honestly never expected this kind of behavior from Ben - it's something I'd expect someone like Stephon Marbury to do, not him.

Right on the money with the Marbury comment. I agree with everything you said there.

I think he should apologize to Flip; he shouldn't have shown such blatant disrespect like that, but like Ben said, past is past, and as long as nothing like this happens again, I'll take it as a one-time, frustration-created thing they'll forget quickly. [/QUOTE]

And, you know, I don't even really have a problem with him/anyone having some kind of exchange with his coach; in fact, there probably ought to be a lot more of that, it might help curb misunderstandings and letting them get all blown out of proportion and festering. But...you don't do it like that. You don't do it in public, in front of the world, being televised internationally. That's what was wrong for me. It hurts you, it hurts your team, it hurts the game, it hurts the league, it hurts your coach, and it hurts your family. You save that for the lockerroom, or you ask the coach to dinner or for a drink. You just do not pitch a three-yr-old temper tantrum in a fish bowl like that. Ben Wallace makes waayyy too much money to be using kindergarten/sandbox tactics to make a point. And he's waaayyyy too smart. He was wrong, he needs to apologize for it to his coach and his teammates, and then everyone needs to move on.

I agree, too, that if this is an isolated incident, everyone should just forget about it. Otherwise, the Pistons are going to degenerate into the new Pacers. And that would be truly sad. NO ONE wants to see that happen.

[pache100]

:lol at bdubya's sig


---ben wallace is ben wallace, he will do whatever it takes to get a win, and he is emotional guy as well. (I know something abut that). It just happens. Now wityh 22 boards he showed what he is about

Problem is, that might not have gotten him a win. Then what? Who would remember the 22 boards then? That is no excuse for a grown and very well-paid man behaving this way.

[polandprzem]

Problem is, that might not have gotten him a win. Then what? Who would remember the 22 boards then? That is no excuse for a grown and very well-paid man behaving this way.

I do not care "what ifs".

I this still after a loss they would know he was there to prove something. He just respodned to his behave back in Orlando game - what do you need more?
It is not like he is doing that constantly like Rodman did in SA and blew everything just like that. I'm sure Ben wouldn't do that.

Correct me if I'm wrong Pistons fans

[pache100]

I this still after a loss they would know he was there to prove something. He just respodned to his behave back in Orlando game - what do you need more?
It is not like he is doing that constantly like Rodman did in SA and blew everything just like that. I'm sure Ben wouldn't do that.

Correct me if I'm wrong Pistons fans

He didn't prove anything except that he was being an ass at the moment. He has admitted that he went about it the wrong way and was wrong to do that in a game and that it won't happen again (even though NONE of that makes what he all right or acceptable in any way). That's ok with me. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and we'll see.

I'm sorry you need Pistons fans to validate your opinion.

[Obstructed_View]

His teammates dont involve him. I understand that. I am sure Ben can understand his team not involving him in the 4th quarter (his God-awful FT%).

But he wants to be involved in the first 3 quarters. I dont blame him. Not one bit.

Its the Sheed and Chauncey high pick-n-roll show of endless 3pt attempts. That is a bullshit offense and it wont work in the playoffs.

You drama queens can knock Ben all you want. What he just did will probably influence the entire aspect of the team for the playoffs in a good way. None of this perimeter crap, goto the paint. Get it into Ben, let him pass out of the post, or let him make his move. Make the other team respect his offensive presence. Not that he is going to light it up, but at least respect the option.

Because if the other team doesnt respect his presence, they will learn to. He is athletic enough to beat any center on the 1st step and goto the rack hard.

I think that was his point. End of thread. No big deal.
I agree with that idea to a certain point, except that it should be Rasheed in the paint. If Ben touches the ball in the fourth quarter of a close game I foul him before he uses any of that athleticism, which makes him a liability. If nobody has gotten Rasheed of the perimiter to this point in the season, I think the Pistons are in trouble.

[polandprzem]

He didn't prove anything except that he was being an ass at the moment. He has admitted that he went about it the wrong way and was wrong to do that in a game and that it won't happen again (even though NONE of that makes what he all right or acceptable in any way). That's ok with me. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and we'll see.

I'm sorry you need Pistons fans to validate your opinion.

Not to validate my opinion.

hehe they know Big ben better then me I suppose. I dont think he could do that permanently and that is what I wanted to validate.

Anyway everybody is sometimes an ass (or many are).
What he did wasn't that big of a crime you know. Good he is in the game and continues his great job he is doing out there. You don't want anything else after whta he did.

[nkdlunch]

what a drama queen

[DarkReign]

I agree with that idea to a certain point, except that it should be Rasheed in the paint. If Ben touches the ball in the fourth quarter of a close game I foul him before he uses any of that athleticism, which makes him a liability. If nobody has gotten Rasheed of the perimiter to this point in the season, I think the Pistons are in trouble.

True. I couldnt agree more. I almost always post some sarcastic comment on Rasheed during Pistons games. His ass should be in the paint.

BUT...like I was trying to say and maybe didnt articulate well enough. Get ben the ball early in the game and the shot clock. Get it to him in the post, back to the basket. Let him take 5-7 shots a game (not dunks, or followups, Im talking about shots coming off a post move, etc).

Now, when the clock strikes 4th quarter, the only time Ben should be touching the ball is a) on a rebound, offensive or defensive, b) on a followup flush of a teammates shot, c) off a steal, or d) on a block.

Thats it. Which I am sure Ben would agree with considering his DREADFUL ft%. God, if he could shoot 50-60%, this wouldnt be an issue. But he doesnt, so it is.

[Darrin]

what a drama queen

Think what youy want because he's our drama queen.

[FearDaFro]

He sent his apology in the form of 22 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals and 2 blocks.

Apology accepted. Pick up and move on.

[FreshPrince22]

back-to-back beatdowns of playoff teams on National TV (and the Cavs have been on fire lately). Think his teammates got the message he was sending? It may have been a shitty thing to do if you take it for face value, but I bet it's unfolding exactly how he wanted it to. This may be just the boost the Pistons need heading into the playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

back-to-back beatdowns of playoff teams on National TV (and the Cavs have been on fire lately). Think his teammates got the message he was sending? It may have been a shitty thing to do if you take it for face value, but I bet it's unfolding exactly how he wanted it to. This may be just the boost the Pistons need heading into the playoffs.
The team playing well and winning and Ben not getting fined is definitely a good way for it to turn out, but you can't possibly be suggesting that this was what he had in mind all along.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Ben blew up tonight hit three of four free throws.

[leemajors]

and to think this thread almost died.

[FreshPrince22]

The team playing well and winning and Ben not getting fined is definitely a good way for it to turn out, but you can't possibly be suggesting that this was what he had in mind all along.

He was pissed with the way the team was playing. Maybe saying it in words to the team off the court wasn't working, so he did something that he knew would make his teammates pay attention. I don't see why that's so inconceivable.

[Pistons < Spurs]

and to think this thread almost died.

That's exactly what I was just thinking..............

[Pistons < Spurs]

He was pissed with the way the team was playing. Maybe saying it in words to the team off the court wasn't working, so he did something that he knew would make his teammates pay attention. I don't see why that's so inconceivable.


I think you're giving Ben too much credit. I do not think this was a planned incident. I don't think he said to himslef "what will get these guys to listen to me?? I know!! I'll refuse to get off the bench!!". IMO his emotions got the best of him. He got pissed and threw a tantrum.

Yes, the outcome may be that the guys get re-focused and show more of their agressive nature on Defense.........But this wasn't some master plan that Ben came up with.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Ben Wallace. You are my ambassador of kwan...

[cs100]

I think you're giving Ben too much credit. I do not think this was a planned incident. I don't think he said to himslef "what will get these guys to listen to me?? I know!! I'll refuse to get off the bench!!". IMO his emotions got the best of him. He got pissed and threw a tantrum.

Yes, the outcome may be that the guys get re-focused and show more of their agressive nature on Defense.........But this wasn't some master plan that Ben came up with.

I agree with you for the most part. It was a childish tantrum, a reaction to his frustration and it got results. But whatever his reasons and excuses were, he PUBLICLY DISRESPECTED HIS COACH, HIS TEAM AND HIS FANS. All may be forgiven, but the fans there and those around the world who have kids may not think the same thing when their kids start doing the same thing to their parents, teachers and coaches.

Ben is the leader of the team. A leader needs to show discretion. Believe it or not, Ben is a very popular player and role model and what he does transcends beyond the basketball court. His actions and behavior influence many young people. He should be held accountable in some manner. If anything, he should at least understand that his actions affect more than just his team.

[Darrin]

Problem is, that might not have gotten him a win. Then what? Who would remember the 22 boards then? That is no excuse for a grown and very well-paid man behaving this way.

In comparison to his peers he is not well-paid.

$7,350,000 for 2005-06, or 1.29 million dollars less than Kelvin Cato.

[FreshPrince22]

$7,350,000 for 2005-06, or 1.29 million dollars less than Kelvin Cato.

Pretty sad

[Obstructed_View]

Pretty sad
Yes, I cry a little bit whenever I think about Ben having to squeak by on a paltry seven million, three.

[Darrin]

Yes, I cry a little bit whenever I think about Ben having to squeak by on a paltry seven million, three.

Read the first sentence: relative to his peers. I'm lucky to see in 5 years what he makes for one game. But it's all relative. Compare his salary to the guys he has faced in the playoffs: Antonio Davis, Antoine Walker, Derrick Coleman, Keith Van Horn, Jermaine O'Neal, Shaquille O'Neal, Chris Webber, and Tim Duncan.

It's all relative to the NBA. If someone gave me 7 million as opposed to the 35 million he's made over the life of his deal, I'd retire at the ripe age of 22. But if I was worth 14 million, and I got 7, I'd feel undervalued.

I can't believe I just defended the multi-millionaire. :)

[Obstructed_View]

Read the first sentence: relative to his peers. I'm lucky to see in 5 years what he makes for one game. But it's all relative. Compare his salary to the guys he has faced in the playoffs: Antonio Davis, Antoine Walker, Derrick Coleman, Keith Van Horn, Jermaine O'Neal, Shaquille O'Neal, Chris Webber, and Tim Duncan.

It's all relative to the NBA. If someone gave me 7 million as opposed to the 35 million he's made over the life of his deal, I'd retire at the ripe age of 22. But if I was worth 14 million, and I got 7, I'd feel undervalued.

I can't believe I just defended the multi-millionaire. :)
I was responding to "Pretty sad", hence the quote.

[pache100]

I agree with you for the most part. It was a childish tantrum, a reaction to his frustration and it got results. But whatever his reasons and excuses were, he PUBLICLY DISRESPECTED HIS COACH, HIS TEAM AND HIS FANS. All may be forgiven, but the fans there and those around the world who have kids may not think the same thing when their kids start doing the same thing to their parents, teachers and coaches.

Ben is the leader of the team. A leader needs to show discretion. Believe it or not, Ben is a very popular player and role model and what he does transcends beyond the basketball court. His actions and behavior influence many young people. He should be held accountable in some manner. If anything, he should at least understand that his actions affect more than just his team.

That was sooo well-said and right on the money.


Yes, I cry a little bit whenever I think about Ben having to squeak by on a paltry seven million, three.

Yeah, me, too. http://i2.tinypic.com/vdmydi.gif http://i2.tinypic.com/vdmy9v.gif

[anthologyct]

back-to-back beatdowns of playoff teams on National TV (and the Cavs have been on fire lately). Think his teammates got the message he was sending? It may have been a shitty thing to do if you take it for face value, but I bet it's unfolding exactly how he wanted it to. This may be just the boost the Pistons need heading into the playoffs.

Exactly ........... I don't agree necessarily with the "FORM" in which Ben chose to express his disappointment with the team ............... But, I think a very crystal clear message was sent to 'Sheed, Rip, and to a lesser degree Chauncey, to stop with the bullshit! It's playoff time!

I can't tell you how many games that we took nights off, even when they won. They could have been blowin' out teams by 15ppg every night. But Rip hadn't been cutting off screens as hard as usual, and tryin' to go too much 1-on-1 with defenders. 'Sheed wasn't setting hard enough screens, and not going aggressive in the paint, like he has for the last couple games. And Chauncey, (his Co-Captain), wasn't standing up and correcting those behaviors on court. So Ben took a stand! Message sent and received.

Chaucney is the Leader on the court for the Pistons. Ben is the leader in the locker room. Chauncey's more vocal, and usually does all the talkin' ............. but you get the sense that Ben has things under control, and is the enforcer of the rules.

[anthologyct]

PUBLICLY DISRESPECTED HIS COACH, HIS TEAM AND HIS FANS.


First man, how can you assume to know what Fans in Detroit feel like? I don't feel disrespected. And I doubt very seriously from the players and coaches reactions that they felt disrespected either.

[leemajors]

how could flip not be disrespected when he was cussed out on the sideline by an adult acting like a petulant child?

[Darrin]

Exactly ........... I don't agree necessarily with the "FORM" in which Ben chose to express his disappointment with the team ............... But, I think a very crystal clear message was sent to 'Sheed, Rip, and to a lesser degree Chauncey, to stop with the bullshit! It's playoff time!

I can't tell you how many games that we took nights off, even when they won. They could have been blowin' out teams by 15ppg every night. But Rip hadn't been cutting off screens as hard as usual, and tryin' to go too much 1-on-1 with defenders. 'Sheed wasn't setting hard enough screens, and not going aggressive in the paint, like he has for the last couple games. And Chauncey, (his Co-Captain), wasn't standing up and correcting those behaviors on court. So Ben took a stand! Message sent and received.

Chaucney is the Leader on the court for the Pistons. Ben is the leader in the locker room. Chauncey's more vocal, and usually does all the talkin' ............. but you get the sense that Ben has things under control, and is the enforcer of the rules.

The only thing that bothers me about this line of thinking is that it was overkill. I'm not entirely sure what his overall complaint was; they've kept the specifics in-house (a staple of Dumars, Dobek, and Wilson).

But what I will say is that if all he wanted to do was jolt these guys, he went over the edge and the next time he needs to get in their face, it will pale in comparison to that act. If he pulls it again, he's suspended by the team and he becomes the bad guy no one listens to.

I just think it was overkill.

[Darrin]

I was responding to "Pretty sad", hence the quote.

But that quote means nothing if he's not responding to my initial post.

[ForestBrain]

Eh, these guys know eachother so well, and like eachother so much, that this was good for them. Ben knew what he was doing. The Pistons had been playing poorly, and look at them now. Didn't hurt the team a bit.