Depth

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I am sitting down to think about this and i see one hell of a team

In the front court we have TD, Rasho, Rose, Massenburg, Marks, and I really think we'll end up with Boumtjie-Boumtjie
Next year when we add Louis Scola man we are set, then in a few years we can bring that Georgian kid from the 2nd round this year, and i think Boumtjie Boumtjie will become very serviceable.

Backcourt, TP is expendable, look we have Barry, Manu, and Beno for the long haul. All three will be great i can feel it, I think romain sato will provide a Malik Rose like hustle off the bench, and Devin Brown can really be a factor whenever he steps on the floor. But if we keep TP, we're unstopable.

i look at the roster and i see a sacramento kings squad that doesn't choke and plays great defense

BTW i didn't even have to mention Bruce Bowen, the best one on one defender in the L

managment just knows what its doing, take it up the ass ghost writer

[xcoriate]

TP is expendable

I disagree Tp is a major part of the team, you lose him and we lose a huge portion of our scoring ability. Who would you replace him with... No matter who it will be their first year running pops offence. Udrih is a rookie and no rookie can come inand run the offence. Parker as a rookie started atr point but Pop was the floor general from the coaches seat.

Barry would be able to pick up the offence relatively quickly comparitively but he is most effective at the two, that where we want to use him, he is primarily a wingman, with the added bonus of being able to play a bit of point, its not his forte.

I mean think about it, when TP goes for over 20 we are pretty much undefeated, a bit of consistency is what we're hanging out for. Regarless TP has his place in the team and he needs to keep it.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

i know, but you must have missed something, TP is going to be here all season. Next year Beno wont be a rookie and Barry will have been here for a year, you see what i'm getting at. If you see pop playing beno a lot this season it is probably becuase he will replace parker. If he gets consistent time and sucks, then they have Barry.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

then they draft another PG next draft, they know what they're doing, they built an entire team through the draft; Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker, Udrih.

[xcoriate]

You stated he was expendable as of now meaning he could be traded...

If you say he is expendable and the spurs are not going to resign him, it would make sense to shop him now in order to get young talent back who is also on a rookie contract ort maybe package him with malik.

I understand what your saying though :)

[RobinsontoDuncan]

no wait till the trading deadline when Barry is ready to start at PG

[Kori Ellis]

But Barry could never be a full-time point guard next season. So if they lose Parker and Beno "sucks", they'd have to get someone else. Barry can play spot minutes at the point. He's not an NBA starting point guard. As for Beno, I hope he develops but first he has to step on an NBA court. We can't really judge his game yet. Then we have to see if he's a china doll.

[xcoriate]

Everyone else has expanded there scouting in europe and across the globe after seeing the success the spurs had with it... Theres gems to be had and everyone wants a piece. We may not see as many late draft steals as the other teams now have there eyes on the euros.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

there will be twice the demand and then we can ship him to a non-playoff contendor, maybe for nick the quick, wouldn't that be nice.

yeah but kori your missing the point, we can trade Parker for another PG at the deadline to back up Beno and Barry, then we have devin who could play some point, and of course manu who did it quite a bit last year

[xcoriate]

maybe for nick the quick

Or not so quick as it seems now with his injury...

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Parker never touched the ball on his pro team in paris, then he comes here and is unstopable, that's not obvious that is an awesome scouting team

in other words, no other team can do what the spurs do. period

[xcoriate]

I dont disagree with that... All im saying is the rest of the world has seen whats up for grabs... needless to say they like it and want a piece of the action.

Other teams can do what the spurs do, they can scout overseas. Look how the number of internationalists drafted has gone up. It will be much harder for SA to draft top flight euros late in the draft.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

well then we can trade for... stoudamire who is a free agent this year

[RobinsontoDuncan]

poitn taken

[RobinsontoDuncan]

chat? the old fsp one still works if im not mistaken

[xcoriate]

nah i gotta go out about now, its lunch time :)

[RobinsontoDuncan]

enjoy, nice talkin to ya

[ChumpDumper]

Letting Parker go would be insane.

[ducks]

spurs are going to be capped out
even if they do not sign tp
so how are spurs going to get a point?

[ChumpDumper]

We'll just trade Malik Rose for Derek Fisher.

Problem solved.

Boy, we're deep.

:drunk

[iminlakerland]

Yall better not let TP get away that would be stupid and moronic!

[ducks]

yeah and fisher's big contract
and his slow legs

[iminlakerland]

yeah and fisher's big contract
and his slow legs

Ducks why are we even talking about derek fisher here. I guess im mistaken when i say that you guys should keep parker. Hmmm i mean if you dont want him we will take him thats not a problem.

There is a reason why the Lakers didnt offer Fisher the contract he wanted. It was too much. But did Derek Fisher do what the lakers needed for him to do when he was here? Absolutely, the guy was a class act, kept in shape, great public speaker, and hell he stepped up big for us all the damn time. Ducks of all people you should know.

Thank you come again.

[ducks]

chump mentioned trading rose for fisher
for added depth at the point (which I think he was joking)

[ChumpDumper]

Laker fans miss drops of sarcasm.

Ducks say has umbrella them.

[iminlakerland]

lol i didnt see that post earlier, and i swear i read this post twice.

I take back my comment :embarasse

[ducks]

it is ok it was on a different page

[iminlakerland]

But i read that page. Ah oh well.

[Mark in Austin]

Saying Parker is expendable because we have Beno and Barry is like saying Manu is expendable because we drafted Sato and have Devin. In other words, it doesn't make any sense.

Manu is not a full time point. Hell, he proved last year he's not even a good backup point.
Beno is an injured unproven rookie.
Barry is not a full time point.
Devin is in no way, shape, or form a point

Parker is most definitely not expendable. AND it is overly simplistic to say the Spurs could trade for another starting quality point at the deadline this year. Tony is still on his rookie salary, so even if you packaged Malik with him, you couldn't get enough salary to get Van Exel or Stoudamire. And to be honest, I'm not sure either one of those guys is any better than Parker.

Now don't get your panties in a twist over this - it's not that we're not getting the point. We get what you're saying. We just think that you couldn't be more wrong on this issue. Either that or you're :smokin.

[xcoriate]

^^ agreed

[BronxCowboy]

And to be honest, I'm not sure either one of those guys is any better than Parker.
^
My nomination for understatement of the century.

[Im Here Huckleberry]

Maybe we should ask Mr. Duncan, because i'm pretty sure that's what Pop would do...

[genghisrex]

Without TP, this team will not win anything.

[jcrod]

What kind of crap is this. You would be an idiot to trade parker, thinking Beno would step right in or that Barry could take over.

How about we trade Duncan next yr., because will have Scola to take over the PF spot.

Come on, what TP does for us is unreplaceable, he's also still younger than Beno and better.

Worst post of the yr to date.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

What if i could give you a name of a player with the same salary, who is also going to be a free agent this summer, who almost certainly is not coming back to his current team. In fact I bet his team will be looking to move him at the trade deadline. And he is of nearly equal value but would be resingnable for up to 30 million less than parker, plus he too is coming of his rookie contract so we would have bird rights on him.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

do you give up?.....

[RobinsontoDuncan]

(drumroll)........Bobby Jackson pg Sacramento Kings

[ducks]

and what have the kings won with him as point?

and most west teams do not trade with west teams

and do spurs want to face tp 4 times a year plus postseason?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

please like tp was the deciding factor in us winning in 2003 he was good but bobby jakson would have provided similar value.

[Mark in Austin]

Are you serious?

You think Bobby Jackson, a 31-year old china doll who has missed 33.5% of the past two seasons with injuries is a better solution than Parker?

Jackson will be looking for the same huge contract Parker is anyway.

Jackson is too big of a risk.

[TheWriter]

Ignore RtoR, he sounds like a big time idiot.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

31 are you sure?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

yeah he is 31 but we will still be trainig beno

and im not an idiot i just have a diiferent opinion

[Mark in Austin]

31 are you sure?


That's what his ESPN profile says.

Oh, and Jackson makes twice as much a Parker.

The biggest concern here though - the thing that I just can't understand, is how you can feel comfortable with a point guard who has missed 1 out of every 3 games due to injury over the past two seasons. AND that was when he was playing backup minutes. Not starter's minutes.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

duncan missed games last season and i have confidence in him, you just cant assume someone is going to go down. Unless its marcus camby

[xcoriate]

Oh come on RtD I thought we'd worked it out...

Anyway Duncan only missed 13 games last year the previous three seasons he'd only missed one. You can hardly say that he is an injury risk compared to Jackson.

Another thing under no circumstances do you trade 22 yo for a 31 yo who are at the comparable levels.... I mean the point could be made that Jackson is not at Parkers level but I'll play along. Where would we be in 3-4 years with a 35 year old point whilst Parker is ripping up the league at 25 yo? You meantion this trade at a SAC board and they would jump all over it.

Your digging further into your hole

[Mark in Austin]

Over the past two seasons, Duncan has played in 91.5% of all games.

Are you honestly saying that you don't see a difference between a 28 year old who has missed 8.5% of his games over the past two seasons and a 31 year old who has missed 33.5% of the past two seasons?

Past performance and injury history plays a HUGE role in deciding if management wants a particular player on the roster.

[ChumpDumper]

This is ridiculous. If it's a choice between Bobby Jackson at a Fish-y contract (don't pretend it's not the kind of deal he would get) and Parker at a max contract, I go with Parker no questions asked.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

but then youd would be fucked and unable to sign anyone new for years to come.

anyway the jackson thing seems to be taking away from my earlier premises that we could still be a contender without parker. thats all im trying to get at here.

[ChumpDumper]

but then youd would be fucked and unable to sign anyone new for years to come.Same with Jackson, only you have an older guy eating up that cap space and playing 1/3 of your games.

You act like having Parker is a bad thing.

[1Parker1]

I don't understand some people on this forum. When Manu's contract was up, almost everyone on this forum agreed that we had to keep Manu at all costs. They said he was invaluable, a great energy player, and brings the little things into the game. And, I agreed with all of that. But now that it's time for Parker's contract, we have people who are saying that Tony Parker is expendable?? Now I know Parker and Manu have two totally different styles of playing and bring totally different things to the team, however, the main thing everyone has against Parker is that he is inconsistent. Well Manu is also inconsistent, he has had a lot of games also where when his shot wasn't falling, the rest of his game wasn't going to great either (turnovers, etc). So how come it was so easy for everyone to say that we must keep Manu at all costs, yet Tony is expendable (when he's the second top scorer/important person on the team, and Manu is 3rd?)

Now I understand that some people are wouldn't want to keep Parker because a max deal could hurt the Spurs in the future. But let me ask this, Would you all have agreed to give Manu and max-like deal if he had asked for it???

[RobinsontoDuncan]

no i would not have wanted him at a max deal and dont get me worng i want parker but i want him at a ginobilli-esque deal, he just isnt worth the max. Then look at the point of this thread our depth. if we lose tony we can do this: Trade him for another role player, draft a pg after the season and start beno, or play a point guard by commity approach, ex: Beno starts at the one but is instantly spelled by Barry who is in turn spelled by Manu, who can split some time with Brown who goes back to any of the afore mentioned players. Plus the backup we drafted or traded for.

[1Parker1]

sounds complicated :)

[RobinsontoDuncan]

not really it just shows our chemistry that we can easily rotate our players so effectivley.

[xcoriate]

Well at least we shifted away from the Jackson proposition....

RtD your still relying on Udrih becoming a starting caliber point, the front office can make mistakes Beno could be a flop (I don't think he will be), we can't rely on drafting talent either. A point guard line up of Barry/Manu and did you suggest devin? Is not good enough. None of those guys are point guards there shooting guards who can play a bit of 1...

Barry can play minutes at 1 but hes more effective on the wing.


we could still be a contender without parker.

Thats not good enough... We don't want to contend we want to win. Without Parker we lose so much. Parker is an integral part of team. One that is required to become more than a mere contender like Dallas.

We want to to win the championships.

[TheWriter]

RobtoRob,

The Spurs will always have money to sign players.

If they're undertha cap they have that money. If they're over the cap they'll have the two exceptions.

Bottomline, Parker over Bobby Jackson.

Parker for 9 million is worth it. He's only 22 years old and one of the ebst in the lead. He just needs to be more Consistent with his plays.

With Parker we are set for many years.

Tim
Manu
Parker
Devin
Linton
Beno

That's a great group of guys to have for the next 5 years!

[RobinsontoDuncan]

a contendor is a team that has the ability to win chamionships, we could because by constantly rotating our skilled 2s around we would have all the balance we need at point guard

dont forget that next offseason when it comes time to sign him we will have been able to evaluate urdih

[ducks]

it is much easier for duncan to know who will pass him the ball
and duncan getting one point guard to know where he likes it instead of by comittee

[RobinsontoDuncan]

duncan seems to catch manu's errant passes pretty well

BTW to the Writer it's Rob to Duncan

[BronxCowboy]

^^
But he shouldn't have to. What was this thread supposed to be about anyway?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3827&page=1

[BronxCowboy]

OK, thanks. Been a long discussion here.

[Mark in Austin]

anyway the jackson thing seems to be taking away from my earlier premises that we could still be a contender without parker. thats all im trying to get at here.


The "Jackson thing" was your only weak-ass attempt to back up your original assertion that we don't need Parker once holes were shot in your theory that Beno and Devin could "fill in". The "Jackson thing" has now had holes shot through it, so you blow it off and say it's distracting from your original point?

WTF?

[Phenomanul]

With Parker we are set for many years.

Tim
Manu
Parker
Devin
Linton
Beno

That's a great group of guys to have for the next 5 years!


Don't forget that we will also have Barry for the next 4 years.....

[Brodels]

Just so I don't get blamed for believing something crazy, mark it down that I never have hoped for the Spurs to trade Parker and I've never been really happy with having Beno and Barry replace him.

I really want Parker to stay, but at a fair price. I think if it comes down to it, the Spurs shouldn't pay Tony the max unless he justifies that kind of contract with his play this season. To do so would make things difficult in the near (and far) future.

I hope that both sides can come to an agreement in the next couple of weeks. Anything up to about $68 million would work. $60 million seems reasonable.

RobinsontoDuncan makes it sound like the Spurs would be better off without Tony and that they could easily cover for him if he left. I disagree.

[Brodels]

And as far as depth goes, I'm not as impressed. Horry, Rose, and Marks don't excite me. They'll be solid, but they probably won't be anything more. Rose needs to convince Pop that he should play before he even enters the discussion. Nobody really knows how much Horry has left in the tank. And Marks and Massenburg haven't played big minutes with the Spurs before.

Beno is also a question mark. He could be solid, but he could be a bust. Deven Brown also needs to continue to improve. He still doesn't know when to shoot the ball and when to pass. LJIII may or may not have enough offense to get playing time.

There are still lots of questions about the bench. That doesn't mean that I'm not optimistic about the team. I am, but the bench is the one area that concerns me.