Question: How bad does Nazr have to play?

[aaronstampler]

I mean holy fuck, seriously how bad does T-Rex need to play on defense for Rasho to get the starting job back?

Our defense sucks with him. Every stat out there backs it up, we play a lot better with Rasho in the back. Unfortunately, our rebounding suffers, on both ends of the floor.

Remember the good ol' days when we had a center who understood the defensive scheme and could rebound? Here's to you Mr. Robinson.


But um yeah... play Rasho. I'd rather somebody scores on their second chance than burns us on the 1st chance.

[ChumpDumper]

Sign Kemp.

[Leetonidas]

This should be the Spurs #1 priority. Sign and trade Nazr and aquire a decent big and a long, athletic SF.

[spurs=bling]

^ true

[itzsoweezee]

I mean holy fuck, seriously how bad does T-Rex need to play on defense for Rasho to get the starting job back?

Our defense sucks with him. Every stat out there backs it up, we play a lot better with Rasho in the back. Unfortunately, our rebounding suffers, on both ends of the floor.

Remember the good ol' days when we had a center who understood the defensive scheme and could rebound? Here's to you Mr. Robinson.


But um yeah... play Rasho. I'd rather somebody scores on their second chance than burns us on the 1st chance.



spurs sucked just as badly when rasho was playing. nazr only played 15 minutes, you can't pin this loss on him. i've got a novel idea though, maybe the perimeter defenders could at least try playing some defense on their man instead of expecting the big men in the middle to bail them out on every possession.

[exstatic]

spurs sucked just as badly when rasho was playing. nazr only played 15 minutes, you can't pin this loss on him. i've got a novel idea though, maybe the perimeter defenders could at least try playing some defense on their man instead of expecting the big men in the middle to bail them out on every possession.

Um, they went on their run in the first half when Pop pulled Nazr Scissorhands and put in Rasho. You really don't understand the Spurs defensive scheme, do you? The perimeters are supposed to FORCE their man towards the baseline, even if they have to overplay and let him drive, in order to keep him out of the middle.

[itzsoweezee]

Um, they went on their run in the first half when Pop pulled Nazr Scissorhands and put in Rasho. You really don't understand the Spurs defensive scheme, do you? The perimeters are supposed to FORCE their man towards the baseline, even if they have to overplay and let him drive, in order to keep him out of the middle.

the spurs played three terrible periods. i suppose that was all nazr's fault too? scoring 11 in the 4th - nazr's poor defense right?

i understand it, but the perimeters players haven't been doing that. they've been getting beat, letting the offensive players go wherever they want.

[E20]

Consider the fact that all our bigs played like crap and all that defense Rasho played for 20 minutes went down the drain.................BOO HOO

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Anyone want to call Robinson and ask him how that back is feeling? :)

[Slinkyman]

Howard schooled everyone tonight, no shame in getting owned by the best.

[T-Pain]

nazr is good, just had a bad night. i mean, dont we all???

[T Park]

scoring 11 in the 4th - nazr's poor defense right

no being in the way and turning the ball over, and bricking 2 free throws was his fault.


Wake the fuck up, Mohammed has sucked Donkey Nuts EVER SINCE the big game against Phoenix.


Nesterovic was part of the reason the Spurs had a lead in the first quarter.

his excellent D on Howard in the first along with his interior D helped the offense.

Mohammed should be benched for a game, just to wake his spoiled ass up.

[aaronstampler]

I'm not gonna miss the Nazr Mohammad era.

[ChumpDumper]

Pop is just keeping Nazr's re-signing price down by forcing him to play bad.

[picnroll]

Nazr and Rasho both suck.

Bring on Mahinmi. He can't be any worse than these two stiffs.

[T Park]

^^^ :lol


I would love any kind of sign and trade this team gets for him in the offseason.


Package him, Barry up and see what you get.

[ZStomp]

:lol

How many remember this?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36752&highlight=nazr

Not even a month ago!! :lmao

[FromWayDowntown]

There are times when I think the Spurs would be better playing with 4 guys than playing with either Rasho or Nazr.

The Spurs porous defense of late is cause for significant concern. Sac shot a high percentage, Dallas shot a high percentage, and Orlando shot a high percentage. None of those bode well for the idea that the Spurs will just be able to shut teams down come playoff time. The one possible salvation is that the Spurs have been playing very vanilla defense, trying to save something for the real season, but I don't see that. They've been really, really bad at denying ball penetration (Rasho and Nazr, really) and really, really bad about making crisp switches to contest shots. Better figure that out pretty quick or there are going to be monsterous problems a week or so from now.

[T Park]

None of those games have they had a complete team.

No Horry, No Ginobili, No Parker.

Thats what I take solace in.

[FromWayDowntown]

None of those games have they had a complete team.

No Horry, No Ginobili, No Parker.

Thats what I take solace in.

If you say so. With or without those guys, the Spurs haven't stopped any team that's worth a damn in more than a week. Take solace in whatever you want, if the Spurs playoff defense looks anything like the end of the regular season defense, the playoff run is going to be really short.

They dont' get to play Seattle in the playoffs.

And I'm not buying that they can just flip the switch, as it were.

[ChumpDumper]

I take solace in the fact Shawn Kemp hasn't signed with anyone yet.

[T Park]

With or without those guys, the Spurs haven't stopped any team that's worth a damn in more than a week

That what you speak of, the last opponent they played good D against that was worth a damn was with the complete team if I remember right.
Slow down...........

[ShoogarBear]

I would post in this thread but FWD has taken all my words.

Both Rasho and Nazr have been sucking mightily. I can't believe anyone is trying to argue one is better than the other.

And the Spurs defense has been horrible, even in the last two games with Tim showing more mobility. I can't remember a 4-5 game stretch in the last 7 years where the paint has been so open.

This does not have the right vibe going into the playoffs at all.

[T Park]

I take solace in the fact Shawn Kemp hasn't signed with anyone yet.

picked up crack again most likely.

[ChumpDumper]

That should keep the weight off then.

[ShoogarBear]

And I agree a 39-year old achy-back David Robinson would still be better than either of these mutts.

[FromWayDowntown]

And I agree a 39-year old achy-back David Robinson would still be better than either of these mutts.

I'm thinking Chris Washburn might be a better choice at the moment

[T Park]

Why is it, Im the only one that feels good.....

[FromWayDowntown]

Why is it, Im the only one that feels good.....

Because you are a complete homer. :)

[ShoogarBear]

I'm thinking Chris Washburn might be a better choice at the moment
Bill Wennington!

[FromWayDowntown]

Bill Wennington!

Roy Tarpley?

I was going to say Len Bias, but that would be a little too off color.

Will Perdue WAS in the house tonight . . . .

[T Park]

Because you are a complete homer

Someone that dislikes both of the centers, Udrih and Barry, I don't think is a homer.


I just feel, when this team PLAYS TOGETHER, not missing anyone.

It plays it's best D.


Amazing how a guy that supposedly "quit" on this team last year, is now a complete homer.

[ShoogarBear]

I wonder what Chuck Nevitt is up to?

[ShoogarBear]

Someone that dislikes both of the centers, Udrih and Barry, I don't think is a homer.

Someone that dislikes both of the centers, Udrih and Barry, doesn't know their positions.

:)


(Yes, I know what you really meant.)

[picnroll]

Rasho and Nazr for Dwayne Schintzius and Uwe Blab

[ShoogarBear]

Let me put this in perspective: Kwame Brown is playing better than either of them at this point.

[FromWayDowntown]

Someone that dislikes both of the centers, Udrih and Barry, I don't think is a homer.


I just feel, when this team PLAYS TOGETHER, not missing anyone.

It plays it's best D.


Amazing how a guy that supposedly "quit" on this team last year, is now a complete homer.

I was kidding with my characterization.

But I have to say this: if you truly believe that there are simply no defensive problems with this team, I don't think you've been watching very closely. How much of that is effort remains to be seen, but of late, it sure appears that teams have been able to force switches on the perimeter, create mismatches, drive the ball with impugnity, and meet little or no resistence at the rim. Pop has called several timeouts of late to address the poor efforts in backside rotation by the Spurs bigs. It's made worse by the fact that many of the Spurs wings and guards (including Bowen) have been beaten regularly off the bounce. Against Sac, Dallas, and Orlando, the Spurs have needed defensive stops and simply have not been able to get them. You can say it comes down to missing a guy here or there, but frankly, I'm not buying that.

[T Park]

I know you were! :)

[FromWayDowntown]

I wonder what Chuck Nevitt is up to?

Someone has to say it:

BRING BACK BATEER!!!

[T Park]

Im not saying there haven't been problems.

That would be totally blind.

BUT,

the problems have been compounded by missing Ginobili, Parker and Horry.


You could pretty much say Parker and Ginobili missed the game tonight.

A healthy Parker and healthy Ginobili would've been fantastic to have on the defensive end.


Sorry if that makes me blind thinking that way.


You can say it comes down to missing a guy here or there, but frankly, I'm not buying that.

You can not buy it or do.

But its a fact.

Ginobili = good defender

Parker good

Horry good


not having ALL THREE at the same time tonight HURT.

not having ALL THREE against Dallas HURT.

Period.


Sorry if that makes me blind and stupid.

[AFE7FATMAN]

spurs sucked just as badly when rasho was playing. nazr only played 15 minutes, you can't pin this loss on him. i've got a novel idea though, maybe the perimeter defenders could at least try playing some defense on their man instead of expecting the big men in the middle to bail them out on every possession.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Check Pop's play book.

It is not going to happen.
It is the AJ RULE :rolleyes , see Malik
that this is the way the Spurs are to play defense.

except BOWEN.

[FromWayDowntown]

You can not buy it or do.

But its a fact.

Ginobili = good defender

Parker good

Horry good


not having ALL THREE at the same time tonight HURT.

not having ALL THREE against Dallas HURT.

Period.


Sorry if that makes me blind and stupid.

I'll disagree with your assessment of Parker's defense; I think he's been pretty horrendous all year and I think his defensive deficiencies hurt the Spurs significantly in terms of staying true to the scheme.

I also think this team should be good enough by now to get by on a night or two without a player. Last year's team missed Duncan for the better part of a month, but didn't give up a run of poor defensive games like this team has -- particularly not that sort of run at home. And you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Parker, Ginobili, or Horry is more significant to the Spurs' team defense than Duncan was last year.

I'm not slashing my wrists or anything, but this team doesn't look remotely like a team that can just get stops whenever it needs to.

[ploto]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Pop's head exploding when Nazr totally screwed up the play in the fourth quarter. The Spurs came out of a time out- Pop had just put Nazr in. He totally was in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing- Pop was yelling at hm where to be- Pop got red- beat the table- turned and yelled- Rasho get back in there!

There is a good reason Nazr only played 15 minutes tonight. When Rasho is rebounding at a higher rate than Nazr, you should play Rasho. Pop did just that.

As for the defense, it looked awfully pretty there in the first quarter when Tim and Rasho were on the court together. The best part of the game was the 6 minutes they were both on the court then in the first quarter- the Spurs outscored Orlando 16-8 during that stretch.

As for the rotation- you just can never figure with Pop this season. I must say I am surprised to see so much tinkering with these 2 with only 3 games to go in the season. Pop will use Rasho for several games- and then hardly at all- and then now again for a couple of games. It just seems that he thinks it is about how players match up- Rasho on Howard. It appears that Pop's supposed choice of Tim, Horry, and Nazr for a 3 man big man rotation for the play-offs must not be written in stone, after all. Like tonight, Pop was READY to put in Rasho ASAP. The first time Howard scored, Pop went over to talk to Rasho. Then Howard scored again. When Howard grabbed the rebound from Nazr, Rasho was in.

[Slomo]

spurs sucked just as badly when rasho was playing. nazr only played 15 minutes, you can't pin this loss on him. i've got a novel idea though, maybe the perimeter defenders could at least try playing some defense on their man instead of expecting the big men in the middle to bail them out on every possession.I make a point not to comment on games that I haven't seen - there's enough people who do that without me pitching in. So I'll just respond to the two things that have nothing to do specifically with yesterday's loss.

- You can't pin the loss on Nazr, just as you can't pin it on any other single player. Spurs basketball is team basketball, when they forget that we're usually in trouble.

- Spurs defense work so that the perimeter defender are backed up by (usually) two big men in the paint (or thereabout). Nazr main problem is in the execution of this part of the scheme. I gave him props when he had his monster game a month ago and although he was making the same errors during that game too he made up for them on the offensive. Unfortunately that only happened in one game. Nazr need to understand that he MUST play good defense every game and then have a break out game every so often - the break out games only are not enough.

[Bruno]

Rasho and Nazr are average centers. They have different qualities/defaults but all in all none is way above the other. However, Pop has choosen Nazr and matchups won't likely be good for Rasho durind the playoffs. We have to live with Nazr and see what happen this summer (Rasho or Nazr or none for next season).
And don't forget that our real starting center for the playoff will be Tim Duncan with Horry as starting PF.

[ploto]

Just for the record...

"Nazr Mohammed was benched to start the second half for his poor defense on Howard."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA041406.1D.BKNspurs.magic.gamer.1cc3dc29.html

I don't see how you can conclude that we will have to live with Nazr. Pop had no problem choosing to "live" without him last night.

[TOP_MODEL_M]

Dear Pop,

Please, play Horry in the playoffs, win the title, and then ship both Nazr and Rasho somewhere.Anywhere. Then, please, bring Javtokas and/or Scola.

With best regards from all of us Spurs fans who remember and love DRob!

[sanman53]

Maybe Rasho and Naz had the flu.

[Bruno]

I don't see how you can conclude that we will have to live with Nazr. Pop had no problem choosing to "live" without him last night.

For various reasons :

- Pop will play with a 3 big men rotation during the playoff. He do that every year : Duncan/Robinson/Rose in 03, Duncan/Rasho/Horry in 04 and Duncan/Nazr/Horry in 05. If Duncan play 38mpg and Horry 28mpg, I don't see Pop splitting the 30 remaining minutes 15/15 between Nazr and Rasho. Nazr or Rasho will be in the regular rotation for the playoff.

- Rasho hasn't played a lot since march 1st. I don't see Pop changing his rotation just for the playoff.

- Nazr sucks when he has to defend against big or strong big men (Shaq, yao or Howard). We will likely face Kings,Mavs,Suns and Pistons during the playoff : none are good matchups for Rasho (or bad matchups for Nazr).

I'm not saying Rasho<Nazr but I just try to understand what Pop will do during the playoff.

[Bruno]

Dear Pop,

Please, play Horry in the playoffs, win the title, and then ship both Nazr and Rasho somewhere.Anywhere. Then, please, bring Javtokas and/or Scola.

With best regards from all of us Spurs fans who remember and love DRob!

Great idea !
Nazr will be a free agent this summer, no need to trade him.
Let's say we trade Rasho (and we don't re-sign Nazr), we sign Scola and Javtokas.
Our PF/C rotation will be :
Duncan, a 36 years old Horry, a sophomore who has made a bellow average rookie season (Oberto) and 2 rookies. Great !
Scola won't solve our center troubles, he is a PF and isn't a great defender/rebounder. Javtokas can be good but he will be a rookie and he isn't the most dominant player in europe.

I can't see Spurs starting the season next year without Rasho or Nazr or a nba tested center (or PF in the unlikely case they planed to move Duncan at center).

[pache100]

Anyone want to call Robinson and ask him how that back is feeling? :)

Or Seany? He actually did work out with them earlier. Said he couldn't do it anymore.

[exstatic]

Dear Pop,

Please, play Horry in the playoffs, win the title, and then ship both Nazr and Rasho somewhere.Anywhere. Then, please, bring Javtokas and/or Scola.

With best regards from all of us Spurs fans who remember and love DRob!

Scola is an undersized PF and not much of a defender. Javtokas made a great recovery from his shattered leg, but I wouldn't count on it to hold up to the Spurs usually 100+ game schedule. Our best bets in Europe are probably Mahinmi (big) and Sanikidze (wing). I'm not sure either one of them is ready.

[ploto]

Rasho hasn't played a lot since march 1st. I don't see Pop changing his rotation just for the playoff.

But he has played this week, leading into the play-offs! Wouldn't you think Pop would be settling into his play-off rotation with 3 games to go, but he isn't, at least where Nazr and Rasho are concerned. Rasho has played more minutes than Nazr the past 2 games. I mean- he even started Rasho the second half. Wouldn't it seem more important to get Nazr into a better rhtyhm than giving Rasho time if Pop thinks Rasho will hardly play in the play-offs.

[Gin N Juice]

Tired of hoping these two turn the corner and play well CONSISTENTLY.
I've defended Rasho with "he just needs a little time to get familiar" ( ok its been 3 years come on)
Nazr I just don't get him one night he's pretty damn good and the next he looks completely lost. (those hands sheesh.. do what Jordan used to do to Cartwright just fire the ball at his face and he'll catch that fucker.)

Bring in some guys with some passion and desire to prove something.

[Bruno]

But he has played this week, leading into the play-offs! Wouldn't you think Pop would be settling into his play-off rotation with 3 games to go, but he isn't, at least where Nazr and Rasho are concerned. Rasho has played more minutes than Nazr the past 2 games. I mean- he even started Rasho the second half. Wouldn't it seem more important to get Nazr into a better rhtyhm than giving Rasho time if Pop thinks Rasho will hardly play in the play-offs.

Horry was out against Seattle and Howard was a bad matchup for Nazr.

I agree with you that Nazr has played quite bad lately but I think that Rasho will only play significative minutes if :
- The matchup is bad for Nazr. If we reach the final against Miami and Shaq, Rasho will play more than Nazr. When you look at the playoff picture, there are few good matchups for Rasho.
- Nazr sucks : If he plays in playoff like he did last week and if Spurs start losing, Pop will likelty give more playtime to Rasho and put Nazr in the doghouse like he did with Beno against Detroit.

My point is that even if Nazr is average during the playoff, Pop will stick with him and Rasho will stay on the bench.

[ploto]

Horry was out against Seattle and Howard was a bad matchup for Nazr.

I agree with you that Nazr has played quite bad lately but I think that Rasho will only play significative minutes if :
- The matchup is bad for Nazr. If we reach the final against Miami and Shaq, Rasho will play more than Nazr. When you look at the playoff picture, there are few good matchups for Rasho.
- Nazr sucks : If he plays in playoff like he did last week and if Spurs start losing, Pop will likelty give more playtime to Rasho and put Nazr in the doghouse like he did with Beno against Detroit.

My point is that even if Nazr is average during the playoff, Pop will stick with him and Rasho will stay on the bench.
I know Horry was out against Seattle and that is why Rasho had the opportunity, but he actually played more than Nazr that night, which is surprising. I agree about match-ups in that Pop seems content with Nazr if the opposing center is not much of an offensive threat, but I am much more concerned about Nazr's poor rebounding and subsequent decreased FG%. When he was mostly shooting off of offensive boards, it worked well. But now he is hardly grabbing offensive boards and trying to "create" offense and that is just not working. He seems to be back to getting in Tim's way offensively.

I think too that I am merely expressing my surprise that Pop would go with match-ups, in a sense, this late in the season. I would think he would be more focused on setting a play-off rotation, like usual. I just think it shows some dissatisfaction and lack of surety as to what exactly the Spurs do intend to do with the play-off rotation. Other posititons seem more sure. You know like clockwork that Finley is coming in about 6 minutes into the game- whether Manu or Brent start. Then when Bruce comes out, Manu (or Brent with Manu hurt) comes back in. Every game it is different with Tim, Nazr, Rasho, and Horry. Sometimes Horry is the first big off the bench- sometimes Rasho (match-ups, I assume). Some games I think Rasho plays well in the first half and never plays in the second half and then two games later he is starting the second half. It just usually does not look like this in April- even taking into account Horry's two missed games.

[Bruno]

Nazr hasn't played well last week but I don't think it's a trend : he isn't the most consistent player and can play well next week.

For the rotation, Spurs aren't only working to prepare the playoff, they try too to clinch the first seed. Pop has changed is rotation because our bigs are very inconsistent and he try to find the hot hand to win games :
- Duncan with his PF and his flu has been inconsistent (B2B...).
- Horry has been out for two games. When Horry is in cruse control (it's still regular season) and when is shoot is off, he is an average player.
- Nazr is an inconsitent player : sometimes he is agressive, grab boards and score points, the next day he make turnovers, stupid mistakes and fouls. Add the matchup troubles against some players.
- Rasho isn't very consistent : sometimes he plays great D, has a nice touch around the basket and make some tip-in (like against Seattle) sometimes he is soft, too slow to defend on his opponent and can't grab a board.
- Oberto has been great against Mavs but most of the times he makes too much fouls.

For the playoff, Horry and Duncan will likely be consistent.
If Nazr is in a good day, I think pop will play with the same ratation than last year : Duncan/Horry/Nazr.

Now the question is : If Nazr sucks during a playoff game, what will Pop do ?
- Continuing to play Nazr with the hope of an improvement ?
- Giving more playtime to Horry and Duncan ?
- Open his bench and using Rasho if the matchup isn't too bad for him ?

I'm not in Pop's head but my guess is the we will see a lot of Duncan/Horry if Nazr sucks because Pop doesn't open his bench a lot in playoff.

[leemajors]

horry was playing fairly well last night, he grabbed more than a couple offensive boards. unfortunately the spurs couldn't turn those into scores.

[wildbill2u]

Unfortunately, Pop bought into the Nazr thing after his one big game in LA. He stopped playing Rasho and went with Nazr, thinking he'd finally turned the corner.

Wrong. Now you have Rasho without much time and that has to affect his conditioning and general basketball skills.

[picnroll]

Shoot me if next year the Spurs only have Nazr or Rasho to carry the torch that DRob passed.

[ata]

IMHO, if Pop decides to use Tim/Robert/Nazr or Tim/Robert/Rasho, he will stick to it. Nazr played decent most of the last year PO with same great performances (Denver). However, in first six games against Detroit he was lost as much as Beno.
Before game 7 I've started I thread, that Pop should consider to return Rasho in the rotation since Nazr was lost. That hasn't happened, of course, and Nazr finally show some basketball against Detroit in game 7.
Pop will most propably stick to whatever he decides on the begining of the PO.

[zeleni]

- Rasho isn't very consistent : sometimes he plays great D, has a nice touch around the basket and make some tip-in (like against Seattle) sometimes he is soft, too slow to defend on his opponent and can't grab a board.


Spurs are trying to clinch first seed.

For the playoff, Horry and Duncan will likely be consistent.
If Nazr is in a good day, I think pop will play with the same ratation than last year : Duncan/Horry/Nazr.

Now the question is : If Nazr sucks during a playoff game, what will Pop do ?
- Continuing to play Nazr with the hope of an improvement ?
- Giving more playtime to Horry and Duncan ?
- Open his bench and using Rasho if the matchup isn't too bad for him ?

I'm not in Pop's head but my guess is the we will see a lot of Duncan/Horry if Nazr sucks because Pop doesn't open his bench a lot in playoff.

Those are all serious points.

Rasho is the most consistent of them all. OK, TP was better. Rasho is mostly judged by his defense, so rbs and pts are sometimes less consistant. Still, Rasho-effect is better defense while playing with healthy Timmy.

Spurs are looking more for a 4th spot. I can argue that Pop doesn't want to play Artest unless he absolutely have to. Injury-wise that is the only reasonable thing to plan.

RoHo and TD will be playing the 4th. But not all the time. Now we have Finley for the finish touch to diversify ;) our possibilities. A lot of posters are talking even about VanX.

The opening of the Bench? Why wouldn't Pop changed his mind this time. He is aiming to repeat, no?

[ploto]

Unfortunately, Pop bought into the Nazr thing after his one big game in LA. He stopped playing Rasho and went with Nazr, thinking he'd finally turned the corner.

Wrong. Now you have Rasho without much time and that has to affect his conditioning and general basketball skills.
I think that is what has impressed me about Rasho. He has gone these stretches where he hardly played, but usually when given decent mintues has played well- eg, in Houston and against Seattle. I just know that Pop is talking alot lately about needing better defense. But I do agree, Pop rarely changes his mind once the play-offs start- which is why these past 2 games were intriguing to me.