In anticipation of a Kerry victory,...

[Yonivore]

...it appears the United Nations has developed the "Global Test."

Global Test (http://transterrestrial.com/scripts/globaltest/)

[Nbadan]

Pathetic is what Pathetic does...


Nice John, keep em' coming:


HAMPTON, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Sen. John Kerry on Monday lambasted as "pathetic" scaremongering, Republican criticism of his comments during last Thursday's debate in which he said the president's decision to go to war should pass a "global test" of legitimacy.

Asked during a town hall meeting in Hampton to explain what he meant, the Massachusetts senator said, "It's almost sad; it's certainly pathetic, because all they can do is grab a little phrase and try to play a game and scare Americans."

He added, "They're misleading Americans about what I said. What I said in the sentence preceding that was, 'I will never cede America's security to any institution or any other country.' No one gets a veto over our security. No one.

[NameDropper]

Rumor has it that the Bush twins are anticipating a drunk fest on election night no matter who wins.

[Marcus Bryant]

The problem, danny boy, is that after he stated that he said:


"But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons."

So basically he wouldn't give anyone a veto but we have to seek their approval or we can't act.

Try again.

[Nbadan]

If W. had gotten the U.N. behind the invasion of Iraq before he invaded there is little doubt that he would be headed towards a sizeable re-election, and we wouldn't be losing soldiers at a rate that rivals the early days of Vietnam. Kerry's statement is meant to reflect that he would do everything possible to get the rest of the world behind U.S. intervention policy not that he would give France or Russia or anyone else veto power over that policy.

[Marcus Bryant]

And perhaps some nations had a vested interest in Hussein remaining in power?

Ever stop to think of that?

[Nbadan]

Perhaps, but before the invasion W called the U.N. insignificant and irrelavent. Now that Iraq has turned into a cluster-fuck, he wants the U.N. to go in and save his failed unilateral policy.

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps because he already knew what the Franco-Kraut response was going to be?

[Spurminator]

If Bush had waited for UN approval, we'd still be waiting and John Kerry's biggest Campaign theme would be to attack Bush for not being able to get anything done about Iraq.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm just looking forward to the next debate.

[Yonivore]

"Perhaps, but before the invasion W called the U.N. insignificant and irrelavent."
Nbadanallah mischaracterization #1,348,234,212.

He said they risked becoming an irrelevant debating club if they failed to act on their own resolutions. They only became irrelevant when the U.S. shoved them aside and did what needed to be done.

"Now that Iraq has turned into a cluster-fuck, he wants the U.N. to go in and save his failed unilateral policy."
We're winning in Iraq and the President is offering the U.N. a chance to redeem their shattered credibility.

A 30 nation coalition is not unilateralism. You can Kerry can just keep insulting the Australians, British, and Polish...there's a large immigrant population, in the U.S., from those countries -- and the others -- that vote.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You don't hear much about the "clusterfuck" in Iraq since we cleaned house in Samarra.

That will followed shortly by housecleanings in Fallujah, the rest of the Sunni triangle, and Sadr City in Baghdad.

It's something we should have been doing all along, but I'm glad we are taking care of business now.

[exstatic]

The clusterfuck continues, AHF. Since you're having a hard time finding the stories, here's one from cnn right now.

Bombings and more beheadings (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/04/iraq.main/index.html)


Militants kill two hostages in Iraq
21 die in Baghdad blasts; Poland considering pullout

Monday, October 4, 2004 Posted: 8:02 PM EDT (0002 GMT)

Smoke rises after a car bomb exploded at the entrance to the fortified Green Zone.

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A group of militants in Iraq claimed responsibility Monday for killing two hostages -- one an Iraqi citizen who lived in Italy, the other a Turk.

The militants, who called themselves Salafi Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, released a video broadcast on the Arabic-language television network Al-Jazeera that showed two men kneeling with four masked militants behind them.

One of the militants read a statement saying the Turk was kidnapped and killed "because he served as an agent for Turkish and Iranian intelligence."

Al-Jazeera said the group claimed the other man was working with Israeli intelligence "trying to facilitate the sale of red mercury to a foreign group." Red mercury can be used in explosives.

CNN could not immediately determine the identity of the man presented as a Turk, and Turkish officials had no comment.

The family of the other man identified him as Ayad Anwar Wali, a 43-year-old businessman kidnapped August 31 in Baghdad, and rejected the captors' claims about him.

Emad Anwar Wali said the Italian Foreign Ministry told the family that his brother had been killed, apparently Saturday.

Ayad Anwar Wali, who had lived in Italy since 1980, was in Iraq seeing if he could drum up business for the furniture company he ran with his brother. Emad Anwar Wali said he had been on the phone with his brother when he was kidnapped.

"Ayad was not a spy, he did not work for the Italian government or other governments," the family said in a news release. "His only misfortune was to feel a lot of love for his country, a feeling that brought him back to Baghdad a little over a year ago to open an office there and to start working in a free and independent way in his country."

Emad Anwar Wali, who said his brother's captors never made any demands, said the Italian government did "nothing" to save his brother.

"He was abandoned," he said.

"He was killed because he was considered an Italian," Wali said.

Italy has 3,000 peacekeeping troops in Iraq. The country did not participate in the U.S.-led war.
Poland considers withdrawal plan

Poland is considering reducing its forces in Iraq by 40 percent by January 2005 and pulling all its troops out by the end of that year, Polish officials said Monday.

Polish President Aleksander Kwasnieswski said a withdrawal is in the discussion stage but that plans could not be finalized until after Iraqi elections scheduled for January.

Poland has 2,500 troops committed in Iraq and would reduce that number to 1,500 by January 2005, a Defense Ministry spokesman said, and the other troops would leave by December 2005. (Full story)
Violence in Iraqi cities

Two car bombs rocked central Baghdad on Monday morning, killing 21 people and wounding 85 others near the Green Zone, where many Iraqi ministry buildings and the U.S. and British embassies are situated.

The initial bomb went off about 8:45 a.m. (12:45 a.m. ET) and targeted a recruiting center for the Iraqi national guard, an Iraqi police official said. The Health Ministry said 16 people died and 76 were wounded.

The second blast happened within an hour on Saadoun Street, a few hundred yards away, and appeared to target a Western convoy. Security personnel said five people died and nine others were wounded, including two security officers.

In the Falluja area west of Baghdad, U.S. airstrikes at midnight (4 p.m. ET Sunday) and 3:30 a.m. (7:30 p.m. ET Sunday) targeted the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terrorist network, according to the coalition press office.

Hospital officials said the attacks killed at least eight people and wounded 12 others.

In Baquba, two mortar rounds targeted the city's municipality compound, Iraqi police said. The attack killed a 13-year-old child and wounded eight other people, three critically, police said.

The chief of the Baladrooz police department, Gen. Dawood al-Ta'i, was killed Monday by gunmen who sprayed his car with bullets as he drove through Baquba, police said. Baladrooz is 30 miles west of Baquba, in Diyala province, but al-Ta'i lived in Baquba.

In Baghdad, Ibbrahim al-Rashid, office manager to the Minister of Science and Technology, was seriously wounded and two other ministry workers were killed in an attack in the eastern Al-Ghadeer neighborhood, a ministry representative said.

In the northern city of Mosul, three people were killed by a bomb explosion, including two people who were in the car carrying the bomb, according to U.S. military spokeswoman Capt. Angela Bowman. At least six people were wounded.

Mosul hospital officials said children were among those wounded, including two who were critically wounded.

Bowman said another car bomb, this one in eastern Mosul, detonated as a U.S. convoy drove by, wounding one soldier.

Monday's actions came a day after the U.S. military said it had killed more than 130 insurgents in two days of fighting in Samarra and called the operation a successful first step in the drive to retake cities from extremists. But locals said many civilians were among the dead and they were angry about the toll. (Full story)
Other developments

# For U.S. forces in Iraq, September was the second-deadliest month of 2004, The Associated Press reported. According to Pentagon reports, 80 U.S. troops died in the Iraq war last month -- equaling the May death toll, the AP said. The deadliest month in Iraq this year for U.S. forces was April, when 135 American troops died in a wave of insurgent attacks, the AP reported.

# Two American soldiers were killed Sunday by small-arms fire at a checkpoint, the U.S. military said Monday. No additional details about the incident were released.

# A brother of British hostage Ken Bigley said Monday he believed the captive was now in the hands of a more moderate group in Iraq. News reports in Kuwait have claimed the group that kidnapped Bigley in Baghdad last month was considering selling him to another militant group. (Full story)

CNN's Mohammed Tawfeeq, Flavia Taggiasco, Ayman Mohyeldin, Nermeen Mufti, Masha Medvedeva and stringer Mohammed Adnan contributed to this report.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.spursinfo.com/photos/coyote/coyote_13.jpg

[exstatic]

Jeezus, don't start posting pics of the Coyote. You'll make whottt mess his keyboard.

[SpursWoman]

I certainly hope I'm wrong, but I swear to God/Allah/Budda/Yaway/Whatever....it's sick how some of you seem to gloat everytime new fatality statistics come out.


There's more votes for Kerry *snicker, snicker*


Like you actually want us to lose. WTF?

[Marcus Bryant]

Indeed.

[Bandit2981]

it's sick how some of you seem to gloat everytime new fatality statistics come out.
who the hell is gloating about the violence in iraq? goddamn, thats the most idiotic thing ive heard from you SW...no one is rejoicing at american deaths, all people like Ex, Nbadan, etc are doing when they post these articles is show all you Bush suporters the REALITY of what iraq is!! especially since Bush and his followers seem so unaware that anything is going badly over there...its a dose of reality, not jubilation....*$!^$&*@ :bang

[SpursWoman]

So, are they dying for a mistake or not?


Everytime I see the context of those posts, it would appear that they seem to think that yes, they are.

[ChumpDumper]

told ya sos < > celebration

I feel bad for every American and innnocent Iraqi death.

There are many.

[Bandit2981]

now you are changing the subject. whether or not soldiers are "dying for a mistake" isnt what you brought up, you said people around here are cheering and snickering everytime more casulties mount up...which is the reality of what is going on there. what they are dying for is another subject

[Marcus Bryant]

Well it is hard sometimes to tell otherwise. Perhaps it is more danny boy than anyone else.

[SpursWoman]

No, Bandit...I wasn't changing the subject at all.

When I see those posts, it's usually in the context of...Iraq is a "quagmire," a "collosal mistake," "the US has no business being over there," "it's a no-win situation," "who gives a shit about democracy in Iraq, our men & woman are getting killed!" "Iraq wasn't hostile before we got there!" "They're dying for oil!" (wtf? I've heard that in here) "It's all about Halliburton, those bastards!" *

These kinds of things infer that being in Iraq is a mistake, which would logically follow that they are dying for a mistake.













* being semi-facetious, but you get the point. I'm not going back through each of the threads for the last few months for direct quotes.

[ChumpDumper]

These kinds of things infer that being in Iraq is a mistake, which would logically follow that they are dying for a mistake.And what if they think that?

[Marcus Bryant]

But John Kerry said they weren't dying for a mistake. If he said that it must be so.

And to think, I saw that on PBS! They must be right-wing too.

[SpursWoman]

And what if they think that?


I fully appreciate someone having their own opinion whether it jives with mine or not, but it still infuriates me. I wouldn't really expect anyone to understand (or care, for that matter), but it has more to do with why I support the war in Iraq--which isn't at all related to the threat of WMD's.

[ChumpDumper]

And that reason is?

[exstatic]

You don't hear much about the "clusterfuck" in Iraq since we cleaned house in Samarra.

That's why I posted what I posted, SW. I DO NOT revel in the deaths of our young men over there. I DO think that it is a clusterfuck.

I'm pretty sure that your motivations are to install a democracy over there,SW. I just don't see it happening. People think that we can turn everyone into little Americans. It just won't happen. These people want three things: to be ultra religous, to be poor, and to hate. I read one Iraqi describe the current regime as "rampant Ataturkism". Kemal Ataturk was the father of modern Turkey. If they don't like the model of Turkey as a secular state of primarily Islamic people, then we have no chance to succeed in building a democracy in Iraq.