Tel Aviv sandwich shop bombing

[Vashner]

I must say this has to be one of the most savage attacks against a civilian target. Women and children blown into bits.

Hamas is making a big mistake by supporting the bombing.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/706858.html

[Yonivore]

I must say this has to be one of the most savage attacks against a civilian target.
Nah, it's just like all the others...

[Extra Stout]

Israel ought just to kill all of those swine.

[Yonivore]

Israel ought just to kill all of those swine.
And bury them with pigs feet strung around their necks...or whatever remains of them.

[MannyIsGod]

Israel ought just to kill all of those swine.Yup, thats exactly what Hamas says on their message boards when Israel blows up a building in the occupied lands. And then they go out and do it, and people post what they post, and then the other side goes out and does it, etc etc.

[Gerryatrics]

So how many sandwich shops exactly has Israel blown up in Palestinian territory Manny?

[Gerryatrics]

I hate Getty Images (and yes I know they supply editorial images, not pics to post on forums, their huge freakin' watermarks still suck), but they have a bunch of pictures from the bombing site.

http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/imageResults.aspx?s=EventImagesSearchState|0|1|0|2 8|0|0|0|1|0|0|0|57337328|0|0|0|0|0|||0|0|0|0|0&p=1

[Vashner]

Yea I was moved by a story of a mother killed and a father gathering up his kids.

I understand what Manny says about the tit for tat. But if like this happend here in Town we would open a can of whoop ass on them.

If they held fire it could be wise for now as it would put a ton of pressure on Hamas.

Gives everyone excuse to shut them down sanctions wise.

You can be sure Hamas has helped kill Soldiers and Marines, Iraqi Police and women and children in Iraq as well. Some of the bombings had there signature on them.

[Extra Stout]

Yup, thats exactly what Hamas says on their message boards when Israel blows up a building in the occupied lands. And then they go out and do it, and people post what they post, and then the other side goes out and does it, etc etc.
Peace is not possible. The Arabs will never tolerate the Jewish state in the Dar Al-Islam. As long as they can fight, they will fight.

So the Israelis must eliminate their ability to fight.

[Extra Stout]

I'm just fucking sick of the Arabs. I don't want to work with them. I don't want to teach them democracy. Fuck them all.

[DarkReign]

I'm just fucking sick of the Arabs. I don't want to work with them. I don't want to teach them democracy. Fuck them all.

A-fucking-men

[xrayzebra]

Yea I was moved by a story of a mother killed and a father gathering up his kids.

I understand what Manny says about the tit for tat. But if like this happend here in Town we would open a can of whoop ass on them.

If they held fire it could be wise for now as it would put a ton of pressure on Hamas.

Gives everyone excuse to shut them down sanctions wise.

You can be sure Hamas has helped kill Soldiers and Marines, Iraqi Police and women and children in Iraq as well. Some of the bombings had there signature on them.

Some would Vashner, but some on this board would just blame Bush and
want to analyze it to death, on what we, America, had done to cause
them to do such a thing.
:depressed

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm just fucking sick of the Arabs. I don't want to work with them. I don't want to teach them democracy. Fuck them all.


Too bad the forum idiots like Dan and croutons will never get it, even after a few American cities get nuked/chemed/bioed.

A religion that is stuck in medievil times just isn't going to mesh with the world today, and there's no hope of it happening in the future either.

[MannyIsGod]

So how many sandwich shops exactly has Israel blown up in Palestinian territory Manny?Oh, I didn't realize sandwich shops were a new level of violence which superceded other forms. Shit, with that in mind disregard what I said about the circle of violence.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm just fucking sick of the Arabs. I don't want to work with them. I don't want to teach them democracy. Fuck them all.I'm sick of the whole area including Israel. So much fucking bullshit from all of those assholes over some nasty barren ugly land.

[spurster]

A pox on both sides. Neither side wants to make things right.

[boutons_]

get what? you dickless, ignorant fatherfucker?

[DarkReign]

Too bad the forum idiots like Dan and croutons will never get it, even after a few American cities get nuked/chemed/bioed.

You know, some neo-cons actually credit Bush with the lack of terrorist attacks since 9/11 (*cough*Yoni), which is obvious horse shit.

Yet some conservatives are more than willing to admit that at some point "..a few American cities [will] get nuked/chemed/bioed."

Soooo, if that is inevitable, and it happens under a Democrat...is it his/her fault? And if it is a conservative, is it his/her fault too?

Ignorant.

Regardless....I always say....Start on side, end on the other. The End.

[Yonivore]

I'm sick of the whole area including Israel. So much fucking bullshit from all of those assholes over some nasty barren ugly land.
If you're a Christian, this is the land of your savior's birth and ministry. Somewhere in that "nasty barren ugly land," is the promise of His Kingdom on Earth.

You used to be a strong advocate of the Palestinian cause. Do I sense a softening in your position?

[Vashner]

It's a battle as old or older than the bible. Which reminds me lol. Hal Lindsey is a trip to watch rofl.. Middle East Intelligence Report ... dude scares me.

I enjoy how he get's into it and tells the stories.

[MannyIsGod]

If you're a Christian, this is the land of your savior's birth and ministry. Somewhere in that "nasty barren ugly land," is the promise of His Kingdom on Earth.

You used to be a strong advocate of the Palestinian cause. Do I sense a softening in your position?And if your a muslim etc etc. People miss the whole idea of what their religions are supposed to stand for and choose to focus on some piece of nasty barren ugly land because they don't realize what faith is really about. I'm not even a religous man and I probably understand faith better than most who claim to be.

And I still feel badly for the palestian people who get caught up in this as well as the Israeli people who just want to live in peace. But at this point I would rather they all be left to their own devices because they've come to deserve each other to a large degree.

[jochhejaam]

It's ludicrous if not anti-semitic to put Israels retaliation on the same level as the acts of the terrorists. If the Arab World had the same mindset as the Israeli's there would be peace!
If Israel turned their cheeks every time those mindless demons in the Arab World carried out an attack there wouldn't be an Israel and it's "tit for tat" to keep that from happening? Uhmmm, no!

The epitome of evil is to desire the annihilation of a Nation because of their race and religion!
It's like Hitler's been reincarnated millions of times!

[MannyIsGod]

It's ludicrous if not anti-semitic to put Israels retaliation on the same level as the acts of the terrorists. If the Arab World had the same mindset as the Israeli's there would be peace!
If Israel turned their cheeks every time those mindless demons in the Arab World carried out an attack there wouldn't be an Israel and it's "tit for tat" to keep that from happening? Uhmmm, no!

The epitome of evil is to desire the annihilation of a Nation because of their race and religion!
It's like Hitler's been reincarnated millions of times!That makes sense if you decide to disregard the complex nature of the situation and history of the area. Otherwise, its not quite that simple.

[JoeChalupa]

I have Faith.

[JoeChalupa]

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Israel been shelling the shit out of Gaza for the past weeks, killing many people? The majority of them have probably been militants or affiliated with PIJ or Al-Aqsa, but several have been children, and several more have probably been simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The violence goes both ways again.

[Trainwreck2100]

weren't there Jewish terrorists before WWII

[Yonivore]

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Israel been shelling the shit out of Gaza for the past weeks, killing many people? The majority of them have probably been militants or affiliated with PIJ or Al-Aqsa, but several have been children, and several more have probably been simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The violence goes both ways again.
The terrorists choose to hide behind children. Who's fault is that?

[JoeChalupa]

You have a point but not all of them do and it is NEVER the fault of an innocent child and it doesn't change the fact that children die during war. No way around it.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

So how many sandwich shops exactly has Israel blown up in Palestinian territory Manny?

Does Israeli artillery bombing Palestinian civilians counts? Or Israeli tanks shooting on civilians? Or Israeli choppers and planes firing missiles on Palestinian houses? Or Israeli soldiers shooting? Neither side is innocent or naive.


I'm just fucking sick of the Arabs. I don't want to work with them. I don't want to teach them democracy. Fuck them all.

Yeah, because they asked to be taught. It was pretty naive in the first place to believe that all of the sudden democracy would spread there like beer in Oktoberfest.


Too bad the forum idiots like Dan and croutons will never get it, even after a few American cities get nuked/chemed/bioed.

A religion that is stuck in medievil times just isn't going to mesh with the world today, and there's no hope of it happening in the future either.

Then get the fuck out of there if their are stuck in medieval times. Oh, wait, they have oil below them...


It's ludicrous if not anti-semitic to put Israels retaliation on the same level as the acts of the terrorists. If the Arab World had the same mindset as the Israeli's there would be peace!
If Israel turned their cheeks every time those mindless demons in the Arab World carried out an attack there wouldn't be an Israel and it's "tit for tat" to keep that from happening? Uhmmm, no!

The epitome of evil is to desire the annihilation of a Nation because of their race and religion!
It's like Hitler's been reincarnated millions of times!

If you consider them "mindless demons", then you can't take the moral high ground and talk about peace. There is a burden of responsability in all sides (the Arabs, the Israelis and the west). If they just blame each other and retaliate, then we have what has been going on for the last 55 years.

What is the Israeli mindset? The hardline Likud "let's kill 'em all"? Neither side is going to turn their cheeks in the current state of things. Violence is good for many of the political actors in there, Likud and Hamas need each other as Bush needs Al-Qaeda.

[jochhejaam]

I must say this has to be one of the most savage attacks against a civilian target. Women and children blown into bits.





Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Israel been shelling the shit out of Gaza for the past weeks, killing many people? The majority of them have probably been militants or affiliated with PIJ or Al-Aqsa, but several have been children, and several more have probably been simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The violence goes both ways again.


And now the terrorist's act of intentionally targeting innocent women and children is rationalized as "tit for tat" because Israel is targeting those that commit those acts. That's tit for tat?
How so Joe?

[DarkReign]

Bla bla bla...

Israel was given to the Jews by the West after WW2. To say the least, the Arab world has never forgived them or the Allies for it. I can understand that.

But, it doesnt change the fact that the Arab world is sooooooo under-developed and religion-centric. Uneducated neanderthals that we are "forced" to deal with because of the Black Gold they sit on.

They are such cowards (or smart) that they wouldnt dare fight under one flag against the infidels because if they did, they would be crushed in little to no time at all.

[Yonivore]

You have a point but not all of them do and it is NEVER the fault of an innocent child and it doesn't change the fact that children die during war. No way around it.
True. Innocent people, including children, die in legitimate acts of war.

The distinction to be made in this conflict is that the Islamic Jihad (supported by the legitimate Palestinian government led by Hamas) intentionally targeted non-combatants at the bus stop in Tel Aviv. There were no military or government facilities nearby. There was no strategic advantage to be gained by walking into that crowd and detonating yourself.

Israel, on the other hand, attacked a facility that contained those who planned, prepared, and executed the attack. It wasn't some random act of violence perpetrated on a group of Palestinians going about their daily routines. And, as unfortunate as it is, these barbarians choose to co-locate among innocent civilians (although some would argue the entire Palestinian society is complicit by their failure to condemn the acts of their own) so as to make the decision to retaliate that much more gut-wrenching.

Thousands of innocents died in Dresden and Tokyo during WWII. Similarly, innocents have accounted for large portions of the dead in all wars -- including our aerial assault of Bosnia in the 90's and during the bookend wars of Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom. It's an inescapable fact of contemporary warfare.

Long gone are the days when combatants meet on a field of battle and attempt to confine the dead and wounded to just those that bear arms. No, now we have asymmetrical warfare where cowardly terrorists either send their young to die with belt bombs strapped to their waste or where they strike from positions deep within their own neighborhoods -- surrounded by their own friends, relatives, and children.

[spurster]

I would agree that the Palestinian terrorism is more wrong than Israel's landtaking and reprisals, but that hardly makes Israel right.

[boutons_]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ta/2006/ta060419.gif

[Yonivore]

I would agree that the Palestinian terrorism is more wrong than Israel's landtaking and reprisals, but that hardly makes Israel right.
Attacking a terrorist facility from where a terrorist act had just been launched is wrong?

[smeagol]

Israel has a legitimate right to defend itself. Whoever thinks the Israelis are going to sit with their heads up their asses and do nothing while these terrorists/assasins kill Jews by the dozens, is smoking funny weed.

What would the US do if every month, a couple of Americans were blown to pieces by siucide bombers in some of its major cities? Wouldn't they retaliate and innocent people would die? Hell, innocent people by the thousands were killed in this Iraq war without any provocation (oh, I forget, it's all those ties with AQ and all those WMDs that they found :rolleyes ).

Isreal's contribution to the problem, in my view, is how they treat the Palestinians. But the retaliation is hardly something they can be blamed for. Any country on earth would retaliate if they were in the Israeli's shoes.