25 minutes in: Cheney's Swinging Away

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Even the PBS chick just called Edwards ass on the carpet over the "global test."

Get him Cheney.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I love it: "Mr. Edwards, France and Germany said they wouldn't help you, isn't your plan for Iraq naive?"

"Well, we aren't training the troops right in Iraq, we should bring them here to train them, yada yada yada..."

[SpursWoman]

Cheney for President!

[exstatic]

Uh, getting the training out of country MAY actually get some more to sign up. Good idea.

[exstatic]

Cheney had two rather pronounced uh's immediately after the mention of Halliburton. :lmao

[exstatic]

That's all you've got.

Moderator to Cheney :lmao

[exstatic]

Keep pounding on Halliburton. It's got him flustered,

[exstatic]

Cheney plays the hooky card. :lol

[Guru of Nothing]

"The first time I met you was tonight" was classic! (rough quote, may not be precise)

That was like a choke-slam, if my wresting vernacular is correct.

[SpursWoman]

You have to admit though, that certainly doesn't sound very good.


"Vote for me, I won't be there to represent you!"

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

At least he's not dodging the question, like Edwards and his completely ignoring the reality of France and Germany saying thanks but no thanks.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Good point, that was a great point (the whole "I'm the president of the Senate, tonight was the first time I met you).

[exstatic]

Even the second time around, after being called on it rather abruptly by Edwards, Cheney didn't answer the jobs question. :p

[SpursWoman]

"A little dog yapping at a grown up's heels."

[Yonivore]

"A little dog yapping at a grown up's heels."
Couldn't have put it better.

[Yonivore]

I particularly like when Cheney took him out to the woodshed over his discounting Iraq's contribution to the coalition and to their own liberation and security.

[SequSpur]

I figured Ex was a Kerry tool. Dude, I am going to get you a pair of flip flops.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"Well Gwen, that wasn't what John Kerry meant by global test."

two minutes of bullshit later....

Gwen: "I just wanna get this right..." *proceeds to rattle off quote, showing Edwards full of shit*

Bush/Cheney is gonna get a boost after tonight.

[SequSpur]

I was like "BAM".... "EAT SHIT"......"SCORE"......."YOU'RE STUPID"..........."ANSWER THE QUESTION BITCH".....

And then Pseudofan told me to STFU, she was reading....

Psstttt..... Cheney spanked dat ASS!

[Samurai Jane]

I thought it was a pretty good debate, of course I was trying to do Probability homework at the time, so my attention was a bit diverted. Most of the commentators are calling it a draw.

[exstatic]

Y'all going to be SOOOO disappointed at the poll numbers tommorrow. What we basicly had here was Kennedy/ Nixon all over again, the upstart telegenic young man vs. the rumpled old unlikable dude. Edwards more than held his own, which is all he needed to do. He also made it clear that he was on a ticket, not on his own.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It was funny watching CBS sit there and try to tell us with a straight face that Edwards held his own.

I don't know what's more pathetic - networks trying to tell voters what happened, or the DNC flooding their party supporters' email boxes with the links to every online poll to go vote after the debate.

[Yonivore]

I think it's interesting that a sitting Senator had never met the President of the Senate.

And, ex, Edwards came off as exactly what he is...a pretty lawyer with a good grasp of his Demoncratic talking points. He never varied from the weeklong rhetoric, almost verbatim regurgitation of what we've been seeing and hearing since last Thursday.

Hell, he couldn't even keep from mentioning Kerry during the question when the moderator specifically asked the debators not to mention, by name, the head of their ticket.

Oh, and then there was the question of how the candidate differed from their opponent. Vice President Cheney talked about their similarities and then contrasted his public service with Edward's career choice. Edwards came right out trashing the Bush administration with the same old talking points...WFT was that all about? He was supposed to be contrasting himself with the Vice President.

Oh yeah, there is no comparison.

[exstatic]

Most of the commentators are calling it a draw.

Apparently not just CBS, at least according to SJ, who is conservative in her leanings, but not a lemming like some of you.

Shout loud enough that Cheney won. Someone might believe you.

[Yonivore]

It was funny watching CBS sit there and try to tell us with a straight face that Edwards held his own.

I don't know what's more pathetic - networks trying to tell voters what happened, or the DNC flooding their party supporters' email boxes with the links to every online poll to go vote after the debate.
Not only that, I wonder how many local newspapers, across the country, received letters to the editors about how much Cheney lied and how good Edwards did -- 3 to 4 hours before the debate, as what happened last Thursday.

[exstatic]

Yoni, they both went off topic, and doubled back to address previous questions. I like the format. Not so pretty, pretty. THIS is what I want to see in the Pres debates. Throw down, motherfuckers!

[Yonivore]

Apparently not just CBS, at least according to SJ, who is conservative in her leanings, but not a lemming like some of you.

Shout loud enough that Cheney won. Someone might believe you.
She was doing homework...can't fault that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh, so it was a "draw"? Ha. Everyone saw that for what it was, the dressing down of young Johnny Edwards. It's going to take more than a smile to deal with the threats this nation faces from Islamic fascism.

[Marcus Bryant]

We are in serious times. I don't give a fuck how much senator sunshine wants to tell me that he is going to give me a lot of the same crap every politician says every fucking time they run. Cheney told it like it is and he ripped the Democrat ticket to shreds.

[Yonivore]

Yoni, they both went off topic, and doubled back to address previous questions. I like the format. Not so pretty, pretty. THIS is what I want to see in the Pres debates. Throw down, motherfuckers!
Whatever helps you sleep tonight. :lmao

[SpursWoman]

OT:


Did anyone understand one freaking thing that Jesse Jackson said? :wtf

[Marcus Bryant]

Sorry, this was an asskicking by Cheney. And it was one on substance as well as style.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Gee, wonder why the voting in online polls is skewed...


An "online coup d'etat." That's how CBS News described your efforts after the debate last Thursday.

John Kerry did his part with a powerful performance that showed America they can expect strong and principled leadership when he is our commander-in-chief. But it was your efforts that kept the Republicans from spinning their way to victory.

Now we need your help again. Tonight, John Edwards and Dick Cheney will meet for the only vice presidential debate of the campaign. Once again, we need you to take action the moment they leave the stage.

There are four critical things you can do to help beat the Republican spin machine.

Forward this email to family, coworkers, and friends.
Vote in online polls.
Write a letter to the editor.
Call radio and television stations.

Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the difference. It is important that we double our efforts from the last debate, because the Republicans are now copying our strategy.

Vote in Online Polls

National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
Wall Street Journal: http://www.wsj.com/
LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/
Akron Beacon-Journal: http://www.ohio.com/
Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/
Orlando Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/
Philadelphia Inquirer: http://www.philly.com/
South Florida Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/


And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.

Make sure swing voters know why you support John Kerry by sharing your thoughts on message boards in target states. Visit our 2004 Debate Center after the debate for a list of message boards where you can fight the Republican spin. If you visit chat rooms on AOL, MSN, Yahoo, or other websites, be sure to let people know what you thought of the debate.

Write a Letter to the Editor

Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Edwards presented an optimistic vision for the next four years, put it in your letter. If you feel Dick Cheney failed to explain the last four years of failed policies, put it in your letter.

Writing a letter is easier than you think. It takes just a few minutes and just a few clicks using our online media center:

http://www.democrats.org/media/

Call Radio and TV Stations

TV and radio coverage immediately following the debate is where much of the spin is cemented. Make sure you call radio and TV stations to tell them what you thought.

Find shows in your area on our media website:

http://www.democrats.org/media/find.html

Also...

Don't forget to visit our 2004 Debate Center before, during, and after the debate for important information and more ways to take action.

http://www.democrats.org/debates/

Thank you,

Terry McAuliffe
Chairman

PS: Make sure to forward this email to at least 10 other people who will be watching the debate. Also, print out copies for your friends, family members, coworkers and neighbors and get them involved.

[LandShark]

Overall, Cheney put in a solid performance. The style and slickness of Edwards' glib soundbites paled in comparison to the substantive, measured responses that Cheney provided.

[Yonivore]

Overall, Cheney put in a solid performance. The style and slickness of Edwards' glib soundbites paled in comparison to the substantive, measured responses that Cheney provided.
The more I digest, the more I realize it was a fucking smackdown by Cheney.

[SpursWoman]

Yoni, they both went off topic, and doubled back to address previous questions. I like the format. Not so pretty, pretty. THIS is what I want to see in the Pres debates. Throw down, motherfuckers!


I agree....I liked that format way better than what happened Thursday.

PS...






























Cheney smacked dat ass. ;) :lol

[SequSpur]

What does black women with AIDS have to do with the Presidency?

Let me answer this.............

Quit sharing needles and wrap the cock.

How bout that?

[exstatic]

CNBC
Edwards 68
Cheney 32

CNN
Edwards 77
Cheney 18
undec 5

It was a beatdown, alright. :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Yonivore]

CNBC
Edwards 68
Cheney 32

CNN
Edwards 77
Cheney 18
undec 5

It was a beatdown, alright. :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lmao Oh, you're serious, right? :lmao

[Spurminator]

Ooh, Internet polls.

Color me convinced.

[exstatic]

Uh, Yeah. That was several hundred thousand people, Yoni. It's not scientific, but then it's not close either.

[exstatic]

la la la la la. it's not my candidate that's winning the online poll, therefore it's irrellevant.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Perhaps if the RNC sends out emails to all its registered constituents, providing them links to the web based polls, things will be more representative down the road.

[Yonivore]

Uh, Yeah. That was several hundred thousand people, Yoni. It's not scientific, but then it's not close either.
Considering McAuliffe sent out a blast mail with the addresses of every internet poll being taken, I'd say they have absolutely not bearing on reality. But, really, thanks for the laugh! :lmao

Posting ridiculous numbers like that...you should be ashamed.

[LandShark]

It's not scientific
Enough said.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

la la la la, we all know online polls are accurate.

You know, like when the playoffs roll around and Kori posts one saying who will win the championship, and 90% of the people on this site vote for SA, it's that scientific.

:lol

[Spurminator]

Did you know that according to HighTimes.com, 98% of Americans think marijuana should be legalized?

[Yonivore]

Did you know that according to HighTimes.com, 98% of Americans think marijuana should be legalized?
And, on DemonraticUnderground.org, Kerry gets as many votes as Saddam Hussein did in his last election.

[Yonivore]

Anybody watching Dennis Miller rip Kerrwards on Jay Leno?

Hilarious. :lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I went to CNN expecting the same old "who won the debate?" poll, instead I find:

"did the debate tonight help you decide who to vote for president?"

What BS is that?

lol...

[pooh]

I think Edwards looked bad. Cheney went in and hammed the hick from Carolina.

[Yonivore]

I think Edwards looked bad. Cheney went in and hammed the hick from Carolina.
The (blank) in your signature reminded me...hey, Kori, why can't I cuss in here anymore?

[nevermind] (I had a previous expletive asterisked over)

[pooh]

Yeah you can, I just chose to do it like that.

[Samurai Jane]

Wow, I was wondering why so many thought Edwards won on the MSNBC poll I saw this morning.. now I know... That's some sleazy stuff, IMO.

[Marcus Bryant]

Holy shit, exstatic thought those online polls weren't being hijacked as part of a DNC effort.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Cheney for President!

He already is.

He made it very clear who has the brains in this administration.

Edwards held his own but Cheney was a Dick as usual.

[Marcus Bryant]

Cheney ripped Johnny Appleseed to shreds. Most media pundits who usually are favorable to Dems weren't even trying to spin it into a "draw."

Yes, Cheney could be president if needed. Mayberry? No fucking way.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

I think it's interesting that a sitting Senator had never met the President of the Senate.

That was a flat out lie. Tim Russert acknowledged that he personally knows the two met on several occasions and were even on Meet the Press together.

What a liar he is.

I also noticed Cheney couldn't say crap when Edwards called him on his voting record and the fact the Cheney himself proposed many military cuts himself.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

And Cheney couldn't defend the fact that the current administration has a net loss in jobs. That's a fact jack!!!!

[Marcus Bryant]

That was a flat out lie. Tim Russert acknowledged that he personally knows the two met on several occasions and were even on Meet the Press together.

What a liar he is.

The interesting thing is that it didn't seem to strike Edwards as being off. Wonder why. It's not surprising that the senator made such a weak impression given how many of his senatorial duties he missed.




I also noticed Cheney couldn't say crap when Edwards called him on his voting record and the fact the Cheney himself proposed many military cuts himself.

Those cuts were forced by a Democrat controlled Congress at the end of the Cold War.

[Marcus Bryant]

And Cheney couldn't defend the fact that the current administration has a net loss in jobs. That's a fact jack!!!!

That's nice. Outside of the chronological connection can you actually put together a real one?

[bigzak25]

you can see how much these polls are worth after the RE-election......

[JoeChalupa]

Polls have never mattered to me..before OR after the election.

I knew going in that Cheney was going to be one tough mofo and he was.
He is a tough, sharp, polished politician who knows how to debate and proved it last night.

What I saw and what was made clear to me is the fact, and many have speculated this before, that Cheney just may be running this administration. And I'm not being sarcastic or stupid. The fact that Dubya can't express the way Cheney feels is what hurts Bush. Cheney showed he is "the man" in this administration.

Edwards did okay to not fall flat on his face but never the less he took some hard shots from Cheney but he did swing back even though he had the weaker punches.

Good debate.

[Yonivore]

"That was a flat out lie. Tim Russert acknowledged that he personally knows the two met on several occasions and were even on Meet the Press together."

"What a liar he is."
Seriously, I think it's great this is being made into a big deal. Given the circumstances of all THREE encounters, none of them seemed, to me, to be encounters that would be memorable. The most intimate encounter, sitting next to each other at a Prayer breakfast, could have been very forgettable.

Do you realize how many such groups the Vice President sits in on?

Now, this "lie" crap would have substance if, say, the Vice President and Senator Edwards had participated in a substantive committee or policy group prior to last night. But, given that Edwards was rarely at work, that seems unlikely...which was the Vice President's point.

Yeah, this whole "lie" can be brushed aside by the Vice President stating the obvious; "Wow, really? Must have been a pretty forgettable encounter."

I hope this gets play time...it's gonna be fun to watch.

"I also noticed Cheney couldn't say crap when Edwards called him on his voting record..."
So, Edwards brings up 4 ancient and rather obscure instances of where the Vice President voted against liberal causes. Shocker!

In order for the Vice President to have responded, he would have had to recall the specific circumstances of each of the debates on those issues...none of which, by the way, have any relevance to today's election.

That was a "girlie mahn," move.

"...and the fact the Cheney himself proposed many military cuts himself."
Cheney's cuts were proposed, pursuant to a (Demoncratic) Congressional mandate, after the end of the Cold War at a time when the military was being reformed. Kerry's consistent anti-military record transcends all eras and all global circumstances.

I will agree with you on one point. Vice President Cheney failed to take advantage of many opportunities to rebut John Edwards on some very specific issues. That bothered me all night until, on the way to work this morning, it occurred to me...

The Vice President had 120 seconds (90 second rebuttal and one 30 second follow up) to avail himself of any opportunities to rebut Edward's points. And, given the "target rich" environment Edwards kept serving up, the Vice President merely ran out of time. Too bad.

[JoeChalupa]

I don't think Cheney was a "girlie man" at all.

[Yonivore]

I don't think Cheney was a "girlie man" at all.
Me either, Joe.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So we're being told this morning that sitting next to each other at a breakfast (read, PR appearance) makes up for Senator Gone not being around to do his job on Capitol Hill?

I remember a few weeks back the libs running around screaming about how much time Bush supposedly spent vacationing at the start of his presidency. That got thrown back in the Demos' faces, and now you are all pointing to a meaningless prayer breakfast, or maybe 30 seconds of cordialities at Dole's inauguration?

WTF?

[JoeChalupa]

Huh? WFT!?

[Yonivore]

Huh? WFT!?
Well, the bottom line is this, Joe. For the Vice President to have been lying last night...you'd have to prove that meeting John Edwards was a memorable event.

And, judging by the Vice President's response to Edward's wife, Miss Piggy, of "Oh yeah.", I'd say it wasn't.

[JoeChalupa]

So it has to be a "memorable" event to remember?

[Yonivore]

So it has to be a "memorable" event to remember?
That's the definition of memorable, Joe.

I think you're looking at it from the perspective of, if you had met a U.S. Senator, you'd remember it. Hell, Vice President Cheney is surrounded by high-ranking officials, every day. It's quite possible he doesn't remember the three instances when he and Edwards share the same air.

I'll give you an example.

I attended, about a year ago, a function at the Capitol and sat next Carol Keeton-Strayhorn. She's such a loud-mouthed extrovert who dominated the conversation, I cannot even recall who else was at the table with me -- some of them I knew and some I didn't.

Now, if one of those people, I didn't know, were to sit across from me in a debate -- I might well claim I'd never met them before. Then they'd say, "you do remember that time we sat with Strayhorn at the Capitol," right? I'd say, "Oh yeah."

And, unless you produced photographic evidence, I might still not remember meeting you but would probably remember the event that brought us together.

What this tells you is that Edwards surely remember when he was in the presence of the Vice President -- even if his presence there was not memorable to the Vice President. And, THAT, was the point of Vice President Cheney's slam..."Mr. Edwards, you're so inconsequential (on top of being undependable and perpetually absent from your job) that I don't remember ever meeting you. Of course, it's perfectly understandable that you'd remember being with me."

That's what the viewing public saw in that exchange...and, you people whining about it being a "lie" is only underscoring the massive difference in the importance of these two people. Think about it.

[exstatic]

Point taken, Yoni.

How do you forget being on Meet the Press together? Tim Russert came right out after the debate with this. There's only like a handful of people on the set! And I'm quite sure that the principals are introduced.

[JoeChalupa]

And Tim said Cheney and Edwards shook hands.

I wonder if he remembers everyone he tells to "Go F**k themselves".