When Is Duncan going to "Flip the Switch"?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Timmy didnt look so good tonight with single coverage from Abdur Rahim.... Im starting to worry, if he plays like this against the Piston, or even the Mavericks for that matter, the Spurs will not repeat.

Here's hoping he had enough in the tank to bring another championship to the river walk.

[exstatic]

Next year. He didn't lead the team in scoring this year, and I don't expect him to in the post-season. Any 25 point game would be huge.

[The sone]

his switch is flipped...he just takes a while to warm up...like a west side nova!!

[DDS4]

If Tim can't score and opposing teams decide not to double him and let Tim get his....we're in trouble.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I hope Tim can carry this team, but if not we are going to need his rebounding in a major way.

[E20]

If Tim can't draw double teams and not take advantage, then we are fucked and wont' get past Dallas.

[ducks]

dude spurs are averagin 125 points a game in the playoffs and duncan is averaging 12

he will score more when needed

[Nikos]

Anyone want to also mention Duncan's poor defense tonight?

[Mijo]

We need Duncan to do his part! Parker and Ginobli are great but they won't take us to the finals without Tim.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I realize the Spurs are owning the horrible defensive team they are playing right now, but the fact is when the Spurs gave Tim the ball down the stretch, where Tim has always dominated in the playoffs, he was thoroughly handled by Sharif "I'm over-rated" Abdur-Rhaim.

There was total ownage there, I hope it was just a fluke.

[boutons_]

Wonder what brand of tranquilizers Tim uses?

[ducks]

spurs can get to the finals without 100% duncan

beating the pistons is another story though
but this tp is >>>>>>>>last year
this year barry >>>>>>>then last year

[exstatic]

Tim still commands the double team. We're just spoiled because he can't score against/over/thru 2 people this year. He can still pass, and we have a ton of shooters. His minutes have been limited, first in the blowout, then by fouls. Any team other than Detroit/'Sheed that try to play him singly will get rung up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Don't expect that switch flipped until next year.

If we win the title again this year, it's going to be on the backs of Manu, Parker, and our role players.

[kris]

dude spurs are averagin 125 points a game in the playoffs and duncan is averaging 12

he will score more when needed


Not so. Tim looked horrid in this game. I think he flips his switch whenever his foot feels better. I'll give him credit for going out there and giving his effort, and I think he still helps the team run efficiently, but to insinuate he is just letting the other players take the scoring load is wrong. Duncan does not have it right now.

The best post player and defender tonight was actually Rasho. The guy looked tough to shoot over and like he knew what he was doing around the basket (I think Manu's golden passes may have helped.).

[Spurologist]

Give SAR his due. Damn. Almost every shot he took was a hook and they were all going in. That's one of the most difficult shots to defend. TD looked spry in most of his post of plays. TD got to the line and played good D. He'll be fine.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

^ Except he wasn't playing good defense, Bonzi Wells and Abdur Rahim were owning Tim last night, which really bothers me.


Don't expect that switch flipped until next year.

If we win the title again this year, it's going to be on the backs of Manu, Parker, and our role players.

If that's the case then there wont be a Parade on the River Walk this year.

[Supergirl]

I don't understand people acting like Duncan is playing disasterously. There's a reason why when Duncan was in for the first half of the 3rd quarter, we were playing well and up by 10. It wasn't until Duncan picked up his 5th foul that we were in trouble, and DUncan didn't return until the middle of the 4th quarter, at which point we were down by 1-3 points.

Duncan is not going to dominate many games offensively this year. But he still commands so much attention when he's in, and is so critical as our best rebounder and shotblocker, that he will still be a leading candidate for MVP if we go on to win the championship, which I think we can do. He doesn't NEED to be the leading scorer because he has Manu, Parker, and on any given night Barry, Horry, Van Exel, etc to pick up the scoring load.

[leemajors]

^ Except he wasn't playing good defense, Bonzi Wells and Abdur Rahim were owning Tim last night, which really bothers me.


If that's the case then there wont be a Parade on the River Walk this year.

tim wasn't playing bad defense, SAR was just making his shots and Tim was in a little bit of foul trouble in the 2nd half, if you didn't notice - he couldn't be as aggressive on d as he wanted. SAR was torching everyone.

[G-Nob]

Tim couldn't operate effectively in the second half because he was in foul trouble the whole time. SAR took advantage of that, as he should've, it was funny that Reggie Miller kept saying that SAR was dominating Duncan.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I don't understand people acting like Duncan is playing disasterously. There's a reason why when Duncan was in for the first half of the 3rd quarter, we were playing well and up by 10. It wasn't until Duncan picked up his 5th foul that we were in trouble, and DUncan didn't return until the middle of the 4th quarter, at which point we were down by 1-3 points.

Duncan is not going to dominate many games offensively this year. But he still commands so much attention when he's in, and is so critical as our best rebounder and shotblocker, that he will still be a leading candidate for MVP if we go on to win the championship, which I think we can do. He doesn't NEED to be the leading scorer because he has Manu, Parker, and on any given night Barry, Horry, Van Exel, etc to pick up the scoring load.
I like how there's a good ratio of females on here. They really know how to talk some sense into us gloom and doom whining males.

Duncan will have a good game when he's needed. The Kings are just the type of team that play more to Manu and Tony's offensive game I think since there's a lack of Big Defenders that clog up the paint. Despite the fact that Tim on paper could have has his way with the pseudo-defense. The Bench + Manu + Tony are more than enough for Tim to settle for 10 10...I think if things go our way, and this series is a quick one, we'll be glad Tim pulled his punches for the Tougher Defensive Matchups down the road.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I don't understand people acting like Duncan is playing disasterously.

It was probably the whole Duncan watching Bonzi and Martin go to the rack for bucket after bucket thing while Tim couldn't even jump off the ground to contest thing that lead them to think that way.

[Kori Ellis]

Duncan had 13 or 14 boards and was in foul trouble a lot of the game. I'm not really worried about Duncan. He looked so fresh, agile and aggressive in the last couple weeks, I don't really think his PF is bothering him that much anymore.

[td4mvp21]

I wouldn't be surprised if has big games in ARCO.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Duncan had 13 or 14 boards and was in foul trouble a lot of the game. I'm not really worried about Duncan. He looked so fresh, agile and aggressive in the last couple weeks, I don't really think his PF is bothering him that much anymore.


If that's the case then we got a whole new bag of problems.... massive decline?

[orhe]

Duncan had 13 or 14 boards and was in foul trouble a lot of the game. I'm not really worried about Duncan. He looked so fresh, agile and aggressive in the last couple weeks, I don't really think his PF is bothering him that much anymore.

i don't know about that. sure he looks fresh but he doesn't have any confidence on his offensive moves... he's really tentative when he's posting up and the only consistent move he has is that semi hook to the middle of the lane which if it doesn't fall for him makes him an average offensive center...

[theroc5]

how can duncan play great if he only take 6 shots a game lol hes doing fine and were winning thats all that matters

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

If Tim can't score and opposing teams decide not to double him and let Tim get his....we're in trouble.

I disagree.

Orlando did that in their last visit here and Tim went nuts. While the Spurs lost that game, it showed the Spurs and the rest of the league that Tim still could put up commanding numbers.

Even though the Spurs lost, which was because almost nobody decided to show up (I'm aware of the fact that Tony and Manu were injured, respective nations, but Pop said it), it showed that Tim is still more than simply a legitimate threat to take over a game.

Couple that with Tony and Manu over the course of the season, Playoff Manu, Playoff Horry and Brent "Trade My Ass, Will Ya" Barry and the Spurs have what they didn't between 2000-2002.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Couple that with Tony and Manu over the course of the season, Playoff Manu, Playoff Horry and Brent "Trade My Ass, Will Ya" Barry and the Spurs have what they didn't between 2000-2002.


They didnt have it from 2003-2005 either then because no way the spurs raise banners in '03 or '05 without Duncan playing like Duncan....granted he wasnt exactly vintage Duncan last year either..... but he was still better than this year's version.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

They didnt have it from 2003-2005 either then because no way the spurs raise banners in '03 or '05 without Duncan playing like Duncan....granted he wasnt exactly vintage Duncan last year either..... but he was still better than this year's version.

That's just it.

Tim doesn't have to flip a switch anymore for the Spurs to win.

How many people last season thought Manu deserved Finals MVP?

Tim still serves as the primary option, with secondary options that can take over when necessary.

In 2004, this was supposed to be our Playoff Manu, 2006 Barry and Robert Horry.

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/IMG/Hedo_Turkoglu-arton21220-240x240.jpg

I happened to find this on a search for the thoughts in this thread. From About.com



So it will be Turkoglu's job to act as the wingman to dish off to when the double-team comes on Tim Duncan. It's all too perfect ... and that's why Turkoglu's pathetic 6.8 scoring average vs. L.A. during the regular season disturbs us. Perhaps he's still scarred from his years in Sacramento, but he'll need to step up and deliver more than the combined 23 shots he took in four games against the Lakers this season.


Does anybody remember Hedo not wanting to drop his purse to reach for a ball six inches away from him that he let skip out of bounds?

Now, we've got the options I mentioned above.

Tim no longer needs to flip the switch. He needs to have the ability to make opposing teams think he can.

For those that like looking at car wrecks...Hedo's 2004 playoff stats.



Year Ag Tm Lg | G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS| FG% 3P% FT%| MP TRB AST PTS|

2004 24 SAS NBA| 10 271 26 81 14 42 11 18 45 15 9 1 16 20 77| 32 33 61| 27 4.5 1.5 7.7|

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Would have been nice if Hedo has shown what he has shown in Orlando with the Spurs.

As far as your contention about Manu last year in the finals-- sure whatever, but do you honestly think Tim with 14 points and 9 rebounds can win a title for the spurs?

NO.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Would have been nice if Hedo has shown what he has shown in Orlando with the Spurs.

As far as your contention about Manu last year in the finals-- sure whatever, but do you honestly think Tim with 14 points and 9 rebounds can win a title for the spurs?

NO.

Hedo always shows what he's done in Orlando from November to April. To paraphrase Kori Ellis...

"When the calendar turns playoffs, Hedo's nuts shrivel up."

My point is this...why does Tim get 14 and 9 and the Spurs collectively win this season? It's because not only does Tim still command the respect of an MVP, but because he can still be the MVP when necessary.

While teams are planning more and more for Tony and Manu, they'd be damned if Tim Duncan beats them.

I think if Tim has to take over games and bring down 29 and 18 this post-season, we're screwed because it means somebody else's shots aren't falling.

Tim can command the game like he used to, a quiet high double-double. I just don't believe that this season, he'll need to.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

The Pistons arent going to double cover Tim. And frankly, if Tim isnt rebounding--who will? If the spurs come out flat like the did last night against an elite team they arent going to get back in the game without Duncan.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

The Pistons arent going to double cover Tim. And frankly, if Tim isnt rebounding--who will? If the spurs come out flat like the did last night against an elite team they arent going to get back in the game without Duncan.

I will totally agree with you on that point.

Getting killed on the boards last night was sickening. I'll take Tim grabbing 16 boards over him scoring 26 anyday.

[Fabbs]

Spurs had a comfy 9-10 point lead with Duncan in.
The bullstink calls against both he and Horry that forced him out hurt our interior defense.

I don't thing we'll get burned again with a crew like last nights.
Then again, Baldetta gets all the big games it seems. :rolleyes

[boutons_]

"The Pistons arent going to double cover Tim."

Rasheed all by himself, like Karl Malone, handles Tim pretty well one-on-one.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Tim wasn't needed in game 1, and was in foul trouble for most of game 2. His fouls turned him into "Sulking Tim" and when that happens his game usually goes in the crapper. The refs stopped Tim more than the Kings did.

I think we'll see Tim have a better playoffs then last season when all is said and done.

[Vashner]

Last time I checked we had 3 championships? WTF is this talking smack about Timmy?

Little pre mature no?

We are 2 and 0 wtf do you want? And NO you can't get a free gold toilet.

[island_dude]

The thing that would concern me if I were a Spurs fan was his defense last night. Raheem was abusing him pretty badly in the low post.

[td4mvp21]

One thing that makes me feel at least more comfortable is that Tim is moving a lot better than last year. His shots just aren't there. You can't really criticize him too harshly because he played limited minutes in both games, and the minutes he did play in Game 2, he had to be very foul-conscious. I'd wait until next round before we determine what he's gonna do. We might even find out this weekend...

[SAGambler]

Would have been nice if Hedo has shown what he has shown in Orlando with the Spurs.

As far as your contention about Manu last year in the finals-- sure whatever, but do you honestly think Tim with 14 points and 9 rebounds can win a title for the spurs?

NO.

As long as the rest of the team are putting up a hundred or more....Hell, yeah.

This is not the "walk it up the court and get in the half court set and run everything through Tim" team that we have had in the past.

I also thinks what makes this team so dangerous is the deep deep bench, where we can run fresh players in and out all night long.

I see no reason we can't win another championship with Tim doing just what he has done the first two playoff games.

Would I like to see him playing better than he is? Damn right.

But we have the "true team concept" in this team this year. You don't have to rely on Duncan going for 25 and pulling down 18 boards for this team to win.

[SAGambler]

The Pistons arent going to double cover Tim. And frankly, if Tim isnt rebounding--who will? If the spurs come out flat like the did last night against an elite team they arent going to get back in the game without Duncan.

WTF? Didn't Artest tell you the Kings were the team to beat? Are you saying you don't believe him?

Well, I don't know about the "team to beat". But the Kings are by far better now that they were the first half of the season.

I actually thought they were probably they worst draw we could get of all the possibilities.

They may not be an "elite" team, but they can play with anyone right now.

[kris]

That's just it.

Tim doesn't have to flip a switch anymore for the Spurs to win.

[/code]

Yeah, he does. Duncan plays like he did last night and the Spurs are finished.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

"The Pistons arent going to double cover Tim."

Rasheed all by himself, like Karl Malone, handles Tim pretty well one-on-one.

Yeah this is what Im worried about, when Tim is single covered, where are the open looks going to come from?



WTF? Didn't Artest tell you the Kings were the team to beat? Are you saying you don't believe him?

Well, I don't know about the "team to beat". But the Kings are by far better now that they were the first half of the season.

I actually thought they were probably they worst draw we could get of all the possibilities.

They may not be an "elite" team, but they can play with anyone right now.

Er sorry....let me rephrase... when the spurs play a team that has elite level talent on the defensive side of the ball they will be in trouble.


Last time I checked we had 3 championships? WTF is this talking smack about Timmy?

Little pre mature no?

We are 2 and 0 wtf do you want? And NO you can't get a free gold toilet.

Vashner I have long ago learned not to entertain this kind of bullshit with a response.... I am impressed though, you manage to make an ass of yourself on the spurs forum too?

[v2freak]

Quite simply Duncan will not dominate if the offense does not start running through him more. This means Ginobili and Parker will have to tone it down more if Duncan is to become his old self again, IMO

[Amuseddaysleeper]

yeah i think a ton of teams are making a big mistake in double team Tim. He no longer deserves to be double teamed. I think even if the PF goes away, his offensive game has deteriorated so badly that he almost will have to relearn his bank shot because he hasn't had it for so long. Bill Simmons said it best in his chat when he said the spurs can't repeat if TD is only gonna average 14-10. It's not about running more offense through him its just that almost EVERY shot duncan takes he just chucks it up there praying that it'll somehow go in. he just flails his arms after he shoots tryin to draw a non existing foul then complaining about it. He def. looks more aggressive, and his PF isn't bothering him anymore, but without Timmy getting at least 20 ppg on average as oppose to him having a 20 point night being a cause for celebration, we aren't gonna go very far at all. If anything, hopefully he can pick it up defensively and maybe barry and finley can make up for TD's offensive liabilities

[austinfan]

I agree with JB47--Tim doesn't need to be a monster on offense, but he does need to show up every night on defense, with a lot more focus than he's shown lately. It's a cliche but true that you can't control whether your shot goes in on any given night, but you can control the way you defend, through the effort you put out. If Manu, Tony and the bench continue to perform at this level, and Tim becomes more consistently assertive on defense, plus if we get a few lucky breaks like last night's, we have a good chance of beating the Pistons in the Finals.

[kris]

yeah i think a ton of teams are making a big mistake in double team Tim. He no longer deserves to be double teamed. I think even if the PF goes away, his offensive game has deteriorated so badly that he almost will have to relearn his bank shot because he hasn't had it for so long. Bill Simmons said it best in his chat when he said the spurs can't repeat if TD is only gonna average 14-10. It's not about running more offense through him its just that almost EVERY shot duncan takes he just chucks it up there praying that it'll somehow go in. he just flails his arms after he shoots tryin to draw a non existing foul then complaining about it. He def. looks more aggressive, and his PF isn't bothering him anymore, but without Timmy getting at least 20 ppg on average as oppose to him having a 20 point night being a cause for celebration, we aren't gonna go very far at all. If anything, hopefully he can pick it up defensively and maybe barry and finley can make up for TD's offensive liabilities


I agree with everything you said except for PF not bothering him anymore. I saw him try to bank in some shots at the very end of the season and if someone closes on him he shanks it.