Online Poker

[T Park]

Hey all.


Hey, does anyone in here play for money, and if you do, do you think it could be a good income, at least supplemental.

If so, how often do you play, and how do you get so good at it that you win that much?


Im thinking about doing this in my spare time, or downtime at work, to supplement my income, and get ready to buy a house.

[scott]

do you think it could be a good income, at least supplemental.

No offense T Park, but if you have to ask the answer is probably no.

[T Park]

not even, in a person's spare time?

Not even if they play a few hours a day?

[scott]

I'd say that if you aren't confident enough in your poker skills to KNOW that you'll be able to go in and make money consistently, you will probably be a loser in the long run.

It also takes a certain mindset to play online, different than live poker. Manny plays online poker professionally - so he might be able to give you some info.

[Vashner]

Gambling is just like every other crutch. The ride might be fun but you crash in the end. Find another hobby that's more constructive. Just friendly advice. I know it's fun to gamble. But it's also addictive.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll just say this....

The reason I can make a living off of it is becaue of all the people who think they know about poker and don't know anything. The vast majority of online players are not of the winning variety although I'm sure many - if not most - think they are.

[MannyIsGod]

You shoudln't look to online poker as a source of income untill it happens. If you play, and you've been successfull for a large number of hands and you're sure that the main factor is your skill and not a hot run of cards, then you can consider it. I'm talking about 50 thousand hands. At that point, if you're a winning player it usually shows up. Varience skews things in the short run but the cards even out over the long run.

Playing poker is a really analytical thing when you do it online. Live there is a lot more to it with the psychology of things, but online is a different type of poker where a more straightforward analytical game is best. It is really mathamtical in nature. I don't think its extremely hard, but for whatever reason people have a difficult time grasping many of the concepts.

[scott]

And then some of us just find it boring as hell. :)

[MannyIsGod]

And then some of us just find it boring as hell. :)Money is never boring. I will admit that live is a millino times more fun than online play is.

Was that you I saw signed up on SAPC's site?

[scott]

Don't think so. I signed up a few years ago under the handle "SATXPoker". Haven't been there in ages though, don't even know the URL anymore.

[MannyIsGod]

Don't think so. I signed up a few years ago under the handle "SATXPoker". Haven't been there in ages though, don't even know the URL anymore.Oh, no there was somebody who signed up for one of the games tonight under the handle "scott" so I thought it might be you.

[MannyIsGod]

Wow 50,000 hands is a lot of money. You must be one of those quiet millionaires.50k hands is 50k in hands. Hands aren't a denomination of money.

[T Park]

Thats what I've wondered.

Having a skill at online poker.

Where do you go Manny to find these morons.

I think I play pretty well, I did pretty good in Vegas, and so far today im up 50 bucks.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, I thought hands were a denomination of money.I know, I know. You're giong to owe me five hands after the Clippers finish business!

[T Park]

pony? :lol

[T Park]

simma down cracka...

[T Park]

my bad.

Didn't mean to go there..... :lol

and I do NOT say slow your roll EVERY DAY :lol

that is such an exageration.

[SequSpur]

Poker is fukkin luck. It's not mathematical. I know a dude that plays 8 hours a day 7 days a week and it's pure luck.

[2centsworth]

t-park,

I don't think you can play poker for a living part-time. The swings can be a killer so you'll need to play a lot of hands to even out the variance. Also, there's no real money to be made unless you're willing to risk real money. If you don't want to risk much but still have a chance to win big, and then play tournies. However, tournies can goble up time without payoff. If you're willing to go broke because you love poker, and then you have a chance to be a long-term big winner. Otherwise, be happy with winning $50 bucks here and there with the occassional score of $500 or more.

Had a famous pro tell me that there was no real money to be made until you were willing to lose $15k in a week. Of course, unlesss you luck out and win the WSOP from a $40 satelite like Chris Moneymaker.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Poker is fukkin luck. It's not mathematical. I know a dude that plays 8 hours a day 7 days a week and it's pure luck.

Please post back to us when your friend goes broke.

[T Park]

2 cents,

You dont think a person could say play 2 tables at one, and like win at least 500 a day from em?

Or is Poker just too much, lose alot win alot, to make any money at?

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

What limits you play T-park?

[T Park]

5 and 10

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

no limit or limit?

[T Park]

Ill only play hands though, that are pairs or same suit.

If they are royaltly? Sure them too.

Iffy hands would be say, ace 10 or king 9


Those Id be heming and hawing on.

[T Park]

Limit

[kris]

Ill only play hands though, that are pairs or same suit.

If they are royaltly? Sure them too.

Iffy hands would be say, ace 10 or king 9


Those Id be heming and hawing on.

Tpark, you've got the same basic strategy as 90% of the people out there so I don't think you are going to make any serious "supplemental" money off online poker.

Making 500 a week off playing 2 tables isn't as easy as showing up with a game plan. Manny is a professional and knows all 52 backwards and forwards. He's been playing hold 'em since hold 'em was 5 card draw. It's not as easy as you seem to think it is.

[Kori Ellis]

Making 500 a week off playing 2 tables isn't as easy as showing up with a game plan. Manny is a professional and knows all 52 backwards and forwards. He's been playing hold 'em since hold 'em was 5 card draw. It's not as easy as you seem to think it is.

I believe TPark thinks he can make $500 per DAY.

[T Park]

maybe not a day.

A week, NET.


I guess you have to get all the poker books you can get and study em.

I really don't honestly know how you "improve"

I mean I play, but, what are things that you can improve at, in playing the game?

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, You can make 500 a day. I've made a lot more than that in a day. But you can lose your ass in a day too. Ask Jess how much she loves the days when I'm down a shitload. Can you average 500 a day? I suppose so, and I'm sure there are people doing it. I don't even come close to averaging 500 a day.

Poker is much more than just the cards you are playing. Its about position, odds, tendencies, situations, and lots of other variables. You can't just say "I'll fold A10 or K9 and make 500 a day" because thats not the way it works. There are times when I'll fold A10 and there are times when I'll raise with it. There are times when I'll raise with 32o and there are times when I'll fold QQ without even seeing a flop. I can't tell you how many IM conversations I've had with Kurt where we talk strategy and can't come to a conclustion.

Tpark, don't expect to make 500 a day. You might be able to do it, but more than likely your going to be severly dissapionted. Just play and if you find out your a solid player then you can consider it. If you're not a solid player, work on your game. Read as much about it and TALK as much about it with people as possible.

[MannyIsGod]

maybe not a day.

A week, NET.


I guess you have to get all the poker books you can get and study em.

I really don't honestly know how you "improve"

I mean I play, but, what are things that you can improve at, in playing the game?You can improve your decision making. Big time.

[T Park]

TALK as much about it with people as possible.


But you told me to shut up :depressed

Im kidding :lol


Sounds like a good idea, talk to some people who have played for a long time, and discuss how they play.


Just play and if you find out your a solid player then you can consider it. If you're not a solid player, work on your game

See, maybe its because im really really new to poker strategy, I don't know what would make a good player from a bad.

Can you average 500 a day? I suppose so, and I'm sure there are people doing it. I don't even come close to averaging 500 a day.
Yeah I should cut that back, maybe average 100 a day, or 80.

that still gives someone 560 to 700 a week.

On top of current salary and percentage of net in my other business, thats pulling down a good chunk of change.


Thanks for the advice Manny, I do respect your opinion, cause Ive seen your stories on how you play and you do know what your talking about.


Ask Jess how much she loves the days when I'm down a shitload.

ouch :lol

would this be because of the days you rub it in when you make alot? :lol

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

T-Park, Playing 5/10 Limit has brutal swings, unless you have at LEAST $3000 to $5000 that you are willing to lose, you should seriously consider moving down limits.

[2centsworth]

T-Park, Playing 5/10 Limit has brutal swings, unless you have at LEAST $3000 to $5000 that you are willing to lose, you should seriously consider moving down limits.
According to Daniel Negreanu to make $50k per year you need to have a minimum $15k roll and play 30/60. He also said you have to be a darn good player to do it.

My suggestion to you T-Park would be to read as much Sklansky as you can, and also read Jennifer Harmon's section in Super System II.

$500 per day is $125,000 or so a year.

Also, most of the good poker players have gone bust once or twice in their lives. Those are the few that come back from going bust, the rest and I would argue the majority of people who go bust become degenerate gamblers.

I would recommend the tournment route where you can controll your loses without it affecting the way you play. In cash games you can't play scared which is hard to do when you're on a very bad run of cards or luck. You absolutely need brass balls.

[T Park]

Playing 5/10 Limit has brutal swings, unless you have at LEAST $3000 to $5000 that you are willing to lose, you should seriously consider moving down limits
whatta ya think, 3 6s?

[T Park]

I would recommend the tournment route where you can controll your loses without it affecting the way you play.

so just enter tournaments is what you mean?


My suggestion to you T-Park would be to read as much Sklansky as you can, and also read Jennifer Harmon's section in Super System II.

$500 per day is $125,000 or so a year

Sklansky, and I want to point out again, I meant 500 a week, not a day.

Thats unrealistic.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

According to Daniel Negreanu to make $50k per year you need to have a minimum $15k roll and play 30/60. He also said you have to be a darn good player to do it.

My suggestion to you T-Park would be to read as much Sklansky as you can, and also read Jennifer Harmon's section in Super System II.

$500 per day is $125,000 or so a year.

Also, most of the good poker players have gone bust once or twice in their lives. Those are the few that come back from going bust, the rest and I would argue the majority of people who go bust become degenerate gamblers.

I would recommend the tournment route where you can controll your loses without it affecting the way you play. In cash games you can't play scared which is hard to do when you're on a very bad run of cards or luck. You absolutely need brass balls.

Caro or Sklansky said that it's possible to make 50k a year playing 3/6.

and Tpark, If you're serious about poker, read Small Stakes Hold'em by Sklansky, it's widely known as the best poker book around.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

whatta ya think, 3 6s?

What is your bankroll?

[kris]

GINNNOBILI, 2cents - have ya'll thought about turning pro?

[T Park]

i set up a seperate bank account with about 8 grand in it for this.


Small Stakes Hold'em by Sklansky

Thank you, I will pick that one up.

[T Park]

BTW, this is something I would do,

oh,

lets say

5 to 6 hours a day.

some days more, some days less.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

GINNNOBILI, 2cents - have ya'll thought about turning pro?

No, I'm definately not good enough yet, I haven't had time to read as many books as I'd like. But I'm slowly trying to build a bankroll in my free time, so that in a year or so, I can try to make poker my main source of income.

[kris]

Tpark, would you like to turn pro one day?

[T Park]

If I get alot of practice and become good at it??

Hell yeah I want to turn pro.

A pro poker player? Damn, that would be awesome!!!!

[SequSpur]

You can make 500 a day betting on basketball if you have the money to put up. You can play the moneyline and probably win 80% of the time. The take home percentages are small, but if you're betting enough money, the 500 can be reached easily.

[scott]

In the meantime, T Park... try showing up to one of my poker GTGs

[T Park]

When is the next one?

stop having them when im not in town :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I love Daniel N, but he's wrong about that 50k mark. There are lots of ways to make 50k with online poker that don't involve something as deep as 30/60. He may have been talking about live poker. Skalansky does say 50k a year playing 3/6, but I'm not too sure thats reachable anymore because a lot of good players play online 3/6 now.

[T Park]

Well, I started with 400

and im up to 17 hundred, is that good?

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Well, I started with 400

and im up to 17 hundred, is that good?Almost enough to buy that house!!!! Keep it up son!!!!

[T Park]

trollin trollin trollin

[kris]

Tpark, let's pretend I'm a dog named Brian. Let's pretend your a guy named Peter.

Peter: I won $1700
Brian: Are you sure you won $1700? Are you sure it wasn't nothing?
Peter: Oh, oh yeah... It was nothing.

[T Park]

:lol

I started with 400 Im not at 2000

pardon me, I wont 1600

[KingsFanWithoutName]

trollin trollin trollinlying lying lying

[Ginofan]

I smell bullshit..

[T Park]

Smell whatever you feel...

[SequSpur]

tpark, what are you playing? tourneys? sit downs? what site?

[T Park]

Poker Stars

played the 5 10 tables for a while

had a couple lucky deals, ran up the betting, and won it

I quit while i was ahead at the advice of Kris :lol

[duncan_21]

Before you do anything more check out www.twoplustwo.com and check out the forums there. You'll learn alot of things about bankroll management and what books to read. I just learned poker about a year ago and play on pokerstars and partypoker. I play mostly nl holdem single and multitable tourneys since thats what I know best.

I wouldn't expect to win as much as you have every day. I think most good players at a 5/10 table will win about 40-50 dollars per 100 hands over the long run.

If you've been playing awhile I would suggest depositing $1000 which would give you the bank roll for 1/2 limit. If you're just starting out like me start lower. There is also some good software like pokertracker which keeps track of how you are doing and records hands you play in a database. If you can beat 1/2 then move up a level and so on and so forth.

Above all else proceed with caution.

[MannyIsGod]

Before you do anything more check out www.twoplustwo.com (http://www.twoplustwo.com) and check out the forums there. You'll learn alot of things about bankroll management and what books to read. I just learned poker about a year ago and play on pokerstars and partypoker. I play mostly nl holdem single and multitable tourneys since thats what I know best.
2+2 is a great place on the net. If you're an SNG player then you probably know that they have great threads no independent chip modeling and end game strategy. After I read some of those, I started playing nothing but SNGs. Great way to make money



I wouldn't expect to win as much as you have every day. I think most good players at a 5/10 table will win about 40-50 dollars per 100 hands over the long run.
A good player at 5/10 will win 10 dollars per 100 hands. Anyone winning 40 dollars per 100 hands at that level is absolutely crushing it and finding value in every single spot. Thats probably not realistic. 20 dollars per 100 is still beating the level quite handily, and I think that a good player would target that.



If you've been playing awhile I would suggest depositing $1000 which would give you the bank roll for 1/2 limit. If you're just starting out like me start lower. There is also some good software like pokertracker which keeps track of how you are doing and records hands you play in a database. If you can beat 1/2 then move up a level and so on and so forth.
1000 will give you a roll for 2/4. You really don't need more than about 200-250 big bets in your roll.

Pokertracker is indeed good software



Above all else proceed with caution.
Where do you play dude? Do you live in SA?

[duncan_21]

Yeah I wrote my post a little quicker then I wanted. I wrote it right before I went to work. I wasnt sure about the good winning rate at limit.

As far as bank roll it depends who you talk to and what you're personally comfortable with. I think the best way to approach online poker is to take it slow. I'd rather make mistakes at the lower limits then at the higher limits. I'm still learning how to play in cash games as I feel I'm a strong tourney player for someone who's only played the game for less then a year.

I live in Iowa. I play in a couple of home games 2 or 3 times a month. I thank god for internet poker, it makes it easier to play since I work the night shift. I play 10-20 hours of poker a week. It's definitely something I enjoy, right now for sngs and tourneys I'd be up quite a bit but took some bad beats and made some bad plays and lost everything I've won tourney wise and sit dead even with my original $450 deposit.

EDIT: Someone mentioned to T Park to play in tourneys since he won't lose alot of money right away. I disagree, the best thing is to play what you're comfortable with. There is a big difference between tourney and ring game strategies.

[T Park]

wow thanks for that link Duncan,

2+2 looks AWESOME!!

Im trying also to learn all the "lingo" like SNGs and what not.


I like how things went yesterday, but I think i just got very very lucky.

Hopefully tuesday is a better day! :)

[duncan_21]

wow thanks for that link Duncan,

2+2 looks AWESOME!!

Im trying also to learn all the "lingo" like SNGs and what not.


I like how things went yesterday, but I think i just got very very lucky.

Hopefully tuesday is a better day! :)

As quick as you win it, you can lose it even faster. Over a 3 week period I won $220 and in a 3 day span lost $150 of it. Don't expect to win how you did every time. Nights and weekend are the best time. In a matter of 30 minutes on saturday I turned my $25 buyin into $90.

Definitely explore the 2+2 forum, post hands that you have questions on, and read some books on the type of games you want to play. Can you make money at poker? Absolutely. Will it happen right away if you have little experience? Almost never.

Good luck to ya, just make sure you take it slow and do some research.

[T Park]

Thank you Duncan I will do that, and believe me, my luck at that 10-20 table, was just that UNREAL luck!!!

Nights and weekend, I will remember that for the coming month of may, however in the summer, daytime after 2 PM local time till about 7 local time is when im going to be hitting the tables the hardest.

[MannyIsGod]

Poker Stars

played the 5 10 tables for a while

had a couple lucky deals, ran up the betting, and won it

I quit while i was ahead at the advice of Kris :lol


Thank you Duncan I will do that, and believe me, my luck at that 10-20 table, was just that UNREAL luck!!!

Nights and weekend, I will remember that for the coming month of may, however in the summer, daytime after 2 PM local time till about 7 local time is when im going to be hitting the tables the hardest.This is approaching Buddy Holly proportions. I just don't understand it.

[T Park]

I thought it was 5 10 but it was 10 20.

I mistyped.

I apologize.

Im glad Im the only one you guys can rag on.

[MannyIsGod]

Tpark, you're bringing this on yourself. You're putting up an outrageous story that you can't even keep straight.

But I tell you what. Stars has great support and they'll email you the hand histories of your games. Email support and request your hand histories from the day that you were on this heater and let me check them out. I can use them to to help your game and tell you where you made mistakes, and you'll also be vindicated.

Ok?

[T Park]

Oh so now you want to help me?

[katyon6th]

I'll help you, T Park -- I'm pretty much a poker professional. It's all about the variances and the river, I say. :fro

[T Park]

:lol

[MannyIsGod]

Oh so now you want to help me?Yeah. I want to help you to stop telling lies. I don't understand what the point is. You IM me the other night saying you've never played online poker before which makes me wonder what the hell you were talking about when you posted a previous poker thread and your online winnings that day.

What is the deal man? Why are you telling these stories? You don't need to do things like this, I honestly find it bizarre.

[2centsworth]

Just wanted to reply to a few people.

Kris,

I don't have the personality or the game to go Pro.

Manny,

I think DN referred to playing live, but the advice was given to me 3 to 4 years ago, so I don't exactly remember.


Here's some additional advice, if any of you want to go the tournament route go to Pokerschoolonline.com. Did that for a year when Daniel Negreanu was a teacher and it took my tourney game to a different level. However, It screwed my cash game up.
I used to play a lot with Mattias Anderson at PSO, Mattias placed 5th in the 2004 WSOP. Dude won $545k or so. The school had 3 or 4 guys who cashed that year.