Nash says Bell doesn't deserve to be suspended

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I know this should go in NBA forum but am I alone in thinking that what Bell did to Kobe is DEFINITELY deserving of at least a one game suspension!?!?

Here's what Nash said in the press conference


Q: Are you worried that Bell will be suspended for Game 6?


Nash: No, because if Brown wasn't suspended for elbowing Boris to the ground and shoving his crotch in his face, why should Bell be suspended?

[CharlieMac]

That's true. But Phil said the same thing.

[zocool16]

Nash got a point, I guess Brown should have been suspended, but Bell should DEFINETELY be suspended... I just saw it... DAMN! lol

[jcrod]

what did he do, I didn't see it??

[trueD]

It was a nasty grab around the neck, then a small hit to the face with the same hand while pulling it away. Totally out of context within the game and he very obviously wasn't going for the ball.

If he is only suspended for one game he will get off easy.

Too bad, I hate the friggin' Lakers.

[Vashner]

Nash is dumb.

[zocool16]

he basically grabbed kobe's face as #8 was blowing by him, kobe's face stayed in place while his body came to a sudden stop. kobe was thrown onto the floor basically

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Anybody have a clip of the incident?

[DDS4]

It was a nasty grab around the neck, then a small hit to the face with the same hand while pulling it away. Totally out of context within the game and he very obviously wasn't going for the ball.

If he is only suspended for one game he will get off easy.

Too bad, I hate the friggin' Lakers.


I agree. Has no place in the game.

Although stuff like this in the old days happened all the time.

[greyforest]

Anybody have a clip of the incident?
if there is i dont think anyone can post it here, its not kosher with the NBA or the forum moderator.

it is definitely suspension-worthy, and since it was against kobe it will get replayed again and again on sports highlight shows.

[duncan2k5]

i like raja bell...he is another hometown boy. i guess im the only one who didnt mind him doing that to kobe because we both hate kobe to an extreme. plus kobe does all kindsa crap to people, and to the game. bout time he gets something done to him. if kobe wasn't a dirty player...then i would think its bad what beel did. but because of my kobe hate, and the fact that kobe is a dirty person himself...let the bell ring. and it seems like kwame is learning the wrong things from Kobe...heh heh

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I just saw it, and if that doesn't warrant a suspension I don't know what does! Suspend the hell out of him!

[PM5K]

I just don't see how that's not a suspendable offense, especially considering that his only punishment would be getting ejected from a game that only had a few minutes left and with his team having a big lead...

[T Park]

suspend his ass.

That clothesline was complete Bushleague

Hell, Id suspend him for the playoffs.

He could've hurt Kobe on that shit.

Totaly Bushleague :flipoff

[JamStone]

Is Nash supposed to say: "yeah, I think Raja should be suspended for what he did."??

What do you expect him to say? Of course he's going to stick up for his teammate.

[PM5K]

suspend his ass.

That clothesline was complete Bushleague

Hell, Id suspend him for the playoffs.

He could've hurt Kobe on that shit.

Totaly Bushleague :flipoff

I agree, I think a suspension for the rest of the playoffs, while on the extreme end, would certainly be acceptable.

Anything less than a game is unnaceptable...

[Darrin]

I saw the hit live, and I am telling you - if Udonis Haslem is suspended for throwing his mouth guard, if Ron Artest was suspended for that elbow to the head of Ginobili, then Bell should be suspended for that.

There was nothing surrounding the play. It's not like he and Kobe got into an arm-pile, and Bell snapped in the heat of it. He just clobbered Kobe from behind as soon as he could.

[gospursgojas]

Kobe said he didnt want Bell to be suspended

[JamStone]

Of course Kobe doesn't want Bell to be suspended. Kobe wants to embarrass Raja Bell on the basketball court. That's his ego talking. The sweeter revenge is to beat Raja Bell on the court, not having him sit out the game. Kobe wants to BEAT him.

[MissAllThat]

I know this should go in NBA forum but am I alone in thinking that what Bell did to Kobe is DEFINITELY deserving of at least a one game suspension!?!?

Here's what Nash said in the press conference


Q: Are you worried that Bell will be suspended for Game 6?


Nash: No, because if Brown wasn't suspended for elbowing Boris to the ground and shoving his crotch in his face, why should Bell be suspended?

The way this series has been called, he shouldn't get suspended, but since it's all been in favor of the Fakers, he probably will. Brown's hit was worse, and more uncalled for. It was after a dead ball. Bell got tossed from the game. Brown didn't even get a T. Total BS.

[gospursgojas]

Of course Kobe doesn't want Bell to be suspended. Kobe wants to embarrass Raja Bell on the basketball court. That's his ego talking. The sweeter revenge is to beat Raja Bell on the court, not having him sit out the game. Kobe wants to BEAT him.


At least Kobe isnt on the phone with Stu right now taddleing on him

[greyforest]

At least Kobe isnt on the phone with Stu right now taddleing on him

pretty sure kobe isnt ray allen

[JMarkJohns]

I said on another board...

This series, and three more games.

That should be a total of five games, if by some chance the Suns win this series.


That said, if you've been following this series, the officials have allowed an increasing amount of physical contact, if not excessive physical contact and have chalked it up to it being the playoffs.

Anybody see the Brown/Diaw or Walton/Thomas fouls? C'mon.

League set the precedent by immediately allowing it, then not punishing it when it got excessive. IMO, while Bushleague (and it was), the Lakers have gotten away with crap similer to this all series long. Maybe not gotten away fully, as flagrants and tech's were assessed, but no one has been suspended.

Shame the League allowed this to boil over by not cracking down on what is a trademark of Jackson coached teams; excessive physical force and play to the point where it's literal bullying and even borders on thuggish.

[JMarkJohns]

...

[JamStone]

I think Kwame Brown should have been suspended for his elbow to Diaw also, based on the Artest suspension. However, the Kwame elbow and the Walton flagrant are not on the same level as as the Raja horse collar. Raja went over and beyond the parameters of physical play during a basketball game. I think most fans would rather Raja play in game 6 because it adds to the storylines. But, there is nothing the NBA could say or do to justify not suspending Raja Bell for what he did to Kobe.

[Kori Ellis]

The video of Bell's clothesline of Kobe is on this page.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260502021

I don't think there's anyway that they don't suspend him.

[Lady Marmalade]

To those who hate Kobe and say he does stuff all the time,
1.I'VE NEVER WITNESS KOBE GRABBING SOMEONE AND SLAMMING THEM TO THE FLOOR
2. If Bell did that to Manu/Tim/Tony/INSERT SPURS player you'd want him suspended for a looooooooooong time.

[Lady Marmalade]

Is Nash supposed to say: "yeah, I think Raja should be suspended for what he did."??

What do you expect him to say? Of course he's going to stick up for his teammate.


He could have said I really didn't see it that well so I'm not sure what happened. Or something along those lines.

[PM5K]

I don't even think I can explain how I feel about that foul, it makes Ron Artest look like a pussy cat....

[mffl89]

He could have said I really didn't see it that well so I'm not sure what happened. Or something along those lines.

um nash was right in front of both of them when the incident took place...i believe he was the closest among the other players

[JamStone]

He could have said I really didn't see it that well so I'm not sure what happened. Or something along those lines.


Ummm ... Nash was standing right in front of Kobe and Raja when it happened, about a foot away. Don't think he could have said he didn't really see it or wasn't sure what happened.

[carina_gino20]

Bell is a thug...he should get a suspension and probably would since you know David Stern is...

[jochhejaam]

I know this should go in NBA forum but am I alone in thinking that what Bell did to Kobe is DEFINITELY deserving of at least a one game suspension!?!?

Here's what Nash said in the press conference


Q: Are you worried that Bell will be suspended for Game 6?


Nash: No, because if Brown wasn't suspended for elbowing Boris to the ground and shoving his crotch in his face, why should Bell be suspended?
He does have a point, Kwame and Reggie should have been suspended. The NBA has been inconsistent in levying suspensions.

All three should have been suspended.

[boutons_]

"I'VE NEVER WITNESS KOBE GRABBING SOMEONE AND SLAMMING THEM TO THE FLOOR"

Did you catch Kobe elbowing Mike Miller in the Adam's apple this season?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5207954

So you're defending Kobe a clean player by splitting frog's hair that a throw-down is worse than a shot to the throat?

[foodie2]

And if Ron Artest was suspended in part because his past was taken into consideration, then that should apply here as well. I've always said that Raja Bell is one of the dirtiest players in the league. I hate that fucker.

I dislike Kobe because of his ego and his off-the-court antics, but imho he is not a dirty player.

[A-Train]

Come on, it's not like Bell raped him.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

"I'VE NEVER WITNESS KOBE GRABBING SOMEONE AND SLAMMING THEM TO THE FLOOR"

Did you catch Kobe elbowing Mike Miller in the Adam's apple this season?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5207954

So you're defending Kobe a clean player by splitting frog's hair that a throw-down is worse than a shot to the throat?
Kobe was being dumb and trying to assert himself in the beginning of the season, as tough in front of his new Laker scrubs. with his "This is MY Court, MY TEAM" attitude..

Normally he's not really dirty. Or doesn't usually do that shit. I think it depends on the competition, on occasion if he smells frustration he tries to get in their head and probably pops a few elbows to the gut, inadvertently or not--caught in the moment whatever. He's done it against Wade.

just like how Manu frustrates players cuz he's physical, he was clotheslined all last postseason and taken down hard. So by now, Kobe's pretty much used to it. He probably likes it now.

Anyway that Clothesline Take DOWN to Kobe was NOT as dangerous as an ELBOW JUT TO THE THROAT. That can cause serious injury to the player at risk. Bell was just an enraged idiot performing wrestling moves in a basketball game.

[yavozerb]

I just saw it on ESPN, Suns better finds someone else to guard Kobe next game cause Raja is staying in PHX!!!!!!!

[Ned Nederlander]

yeah but if he doesnt get suspended how do you think Ron Artest will react over such a call. Ron is already crying that he is the most watched after player in the NBA why not suspend bell for giving the Rock Bottom to Kobe

[1Parker1]

That was pretty bad. Not only did Bell grab Kobe around his kneck and twist him around, the then used his other arm to push him down. Kobe litterally bounces on the hardwood floor if you look at the video. :wow

He'll definitely be suspended next game, no question. And that foul by Kwame Brown people are comparing it to isn't even close. What I don't get is, why is Bell so dumb? It's not like the Suns were losing the game. I know he and Kobe were getting into some heated fights out there, but still. He could have given Kobe a hard foul on his way to the basket...he didn't have to make such an obvious flagarant. :rolleyes

[nkdlunch]

Just saw the play. Flagrant and ejection. No suspension necessary. IMO

[Slinkyman]

We got alot of drama queens around here, bell wasn't trying to hurt kobe and it really wasn't that bad at all. It was a dumb move no question but all he did was grab kobe and trip him to the ground, oh no! Just give him a big fine and move on. The whole suspensions thing has gotten way out of had and players are still playing physical, if the league really wants to send a message they should just fine the players big amounts of money.

You guys are so hypocritical it's not even funny. How many times has Bowen crossed the line with Vince Carter or Ray Allen? How is this any different?

[JamStone]

Difference is Raja Bell made it completely obvious he wasn't going for the basketball at all, and not only did he wrap his arm around Kobe's neck, but he shoved Kobe to the ground as well.

I agree that it isn't as bad as some people think. A foul like that in the 1980s would probably not even result in an ejection.

But, simply based on the suspensions in the playoffs so far, Raja Bell should be suspended.

[ducks]

I saw it 2 times

it is not that bad
I think he will be suspened or it will be upgraded to flagrant 2

[JamStone]

I was already called a flagrant 2 on the court.

[Jimcs50]

If they suspend Bell, they need to suspend Kobe. He threw an elbow that was a lot worse than Artest's elbow to Manu in game 1, that is a fact.

[JamStone]

I think the NBA offices try to determine intent. I think that's why Manu didn't get suspended or Rip Hamilton didn't get suspended for their elbows. Even if Kobe's elbow was worse than Artest, it could easily be interpreted that Kobe wasn't intentionally trying to elbow people because the elbow was just the way he was playing. There is little doubt that what Raja Bell was premeditated, was a result of malicious intent, and was not in the flow or course of the game. While it's still a subjective determination, I think it's a distinction that can be easily made when reviewing the respective plays.

[duncan2k5]

Of course Kobe doesn't want Bell to be suspended. Kobe wants to embarrass Raja Bell on the basketball court. That's his ego talking. The sweeter revenge is to beat Raja Bell on the court, not having him sit out the game. Kobe wants to BEAT him.
Bell wants kobe too...bell doesn't back down from anyone. i like raja beel because if i was in the NBA...i would be doing the same things to kobe. kobe always elbows bell and cheapshots bell...so he eserves what bell gave to him. they shouldnt suspend raja because both walton and kwame (but more kwame though) need to be suspended for theirs. plus the league needs to make up for the game 4 fiasco where they cheated the suns when walton had his foot out of bounds on the tie up

[ducks]

I see yes it was against kobe

[KingsFanWithoutName]

1.I'VE NEVER WITNESS KOBE GRABBING SOMEONE AND SLAMMING THEM TO THE FLOOR

Because Kobe is too busy trying to land elbows on throats.


That foul wasn't as bad as some here make it sound. We've all seen the clip and its pretty obvious he wasn't trying to hurt Kobe. It actually looks like he tries to hold him up a bit, albeit by his neck, before he hits the ground.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

If the league doesn't suspend I'd be really surprised. This was a dirty shot on one of the best known players in the league who happens to be the best player in a huge television market. So they'll suspend Bell if for no other reason than to protect their bottom line by letting Bell and anyone else know that they can't take pot shots at players, especially one who means $$$ to the NBA. Plus that foul has probably been shown a dozen times on every sports show in the country with endless comparisons to the Artest/Manu foul, or the hockey check that James Posey laid on Kurt Heinrich. They'll look like a joke if they don't do something. If Bell were smart he would have taken his frustration out on Smush Parker or Luke Walton. That foul might not have made the highlight reel if he'd had the common sense to lay out one of their scrubs instead of Bryant.


P.S.-KingsFanWithoutName that avatar is my favorite non-boobie av ever!

[Spurologist]

The video of Bell's clothesline of Kobe is on this page.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260502021

I don't think there's anyway that they don't suspend him.

:tu. I hate flash player though. You can't maximize the video.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

They'll look like a joke if they don't do something.


P.S.-KingsFanWithoutName that avatar is my favorite non-boobie av ever!It is already looking like a joke with Kwame not being suspended for his throwdown. How do they suspend Bell after that? Watch the two clips back to back and tell me who's throwdown is harder...............I'd give it to Kwame.



p.s.-you can never get enough fist to fox's jaw.

[Taco]

If you watch, Bell follows through after the clothes line

[sa_butta]

If you watch, Bell follows through after the clothes lineYup. He was thinking about revenge, not the team. It was very selfish and very stupid he deserves to be suspended. It was a frustration foul and it was way too much.

[Lady Marmalade]

Ummm ... Nash was standing right in front of Kobe and Raja when it happened, about a foot away. Don't think he could have said he didn't really see it or wasn't sure what happened.

I saw that but it sounds better than he shouldn't be suspended.

[Slinkyman]

If you watch, Bell follows through after the clothes line

Kwame Brown followed through by tea bagging Diaw.

[Lady Marmalade]

Oh I forgot Kobe's the devil. He intentionally hurts other players...

I think it's just a stupid mood on Bells part, you know the Lakers are going to come back on the kill, esp Kobe.

And if Bruce did something like that I'd be dispointed even if it was on a player I hated.

[NoMoneyDown]

Animated GIF of incident ...

http://www.phidong.com/temp/rajagay.gif

[KingsFanWithoutName]

He intentionally hurts other players...
Nah, his elbows just accidentally land on other peoples esophoguses.

[1Parker1]

Oh I forgot Kobe's the devil. He intentionally hurts other players...

I think it's just a stupid mood on Bells part, you know the Lakers are going to come back on the kill, esp Kobe.

And if Bruce did something like that I'd be dispointed even if it was on a player I hated.

:lol Kobe got really pissed after that play. He hit the technical, then shit a 3 pointer for a 3 pt play. Way to retaliate, Bell. :)

[Slinkyman]

Oh I forgot Kobe's the devil. He intentionally hurts other players...

I think it's just a stupid mood on Bells part, you know the Lakers are going to come back on the kill, esp Kobe.

And if Bruce did something like that I'd be dispointed even if it was on a player I hated.

bruce has done stuff like that, were you disappointed then?

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Kwame Brown followed through by tea bagging Diaw.
:lol thats the funniest thing I've read in a while. :lol

[nkdlunch]

Oh come on. It's not that bad. In game 2 I beleive, Kwame threw Diaw to the floor in similar manner.

[Man In Black]

What many people aren't talking about is the elbow that Kobe through to clear space which caught Bell FLUSH on the jaw and knowcked him down to the ground. BLEEEP ....Foul on Bell?
Yup, gotta love them refs.

On that particular play, Kobe cleared again with his left side pointy elbow...then bulldog time.

Bell had been getting that type of physicality all game, so he paid back in kind. Let's just say that he isn't as subtle as Kobe.

[1Parker1]

bruce has done stuff like that, were you disappointed then?

:wtf I have never seen Bruce grab another player around the neck and throw him down to the floor like that. Bruce may get in the opposing players personal space and hound them, but he doesn't physically attack them like that.

[Horry For 3!]

Kobe said he didnt want Bell to be suspended
Because he wants Bell to see the ownage that will happen in Game 6.

[Slinkyman]

:wtf I have never seen Bruce grab another player around the neck and throw him down to the floor like that. Bruce may get in the opposing players personal space and hound them, but he doesn't physically attack them like that.

he kicked ray allen, head butted vince carter, etc. He also gets to close when a player shoots and then comes down on him, it happens all the time. he was voted the 2nd most dirty player by nba players! what you think he's an angel?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Bruce is a hell of a lot more subtle. The Ray Allen "kick" was probably the most overtly dirty thing that he did, and that was after a play. He's the guy doing what Kobe did, the little jabs and prods that go unnoticed until a guy blows his stack and does something stupid like Bell did.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Bruce is a hell of a lot more subtle. The Ray Allen "kick" was probably the most overtly dirty thing that he did, and that was after a play. He's the guy doing what Kobe did, the little jabs and prods that go unnoticed until a guy blows his stack and does something stupid like Bell did.Don't forget Bruce's flying kick to the face after he was head faked. So subtle.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

There's a fine line between dirty play and fucking hilarious. That line is drawn somewhere along Wally's face.

[1Parker1]

Bruce is a hell of a lot more subtle. The Ray Allen "kick" was probably the most overtly dirty thing that he did, and that was after a play. He's the guy doing what Kobe did, the little jabs and prods that go unnoticed until a guy blows his stack and does something stupid like Bell did.

Exactly my point.

[1Parker1]

Don't forget Bruce's flying kick to the face after he was head faked. So subtle.

Hey, at least he doesn't run into the stands to fight with fans. So subtle. :angel

[picnroll]

To do that in a playoff game when your team needs you for the rest of the series, Bell should be suspended for stupidity.

[Brutalis]

Bell is a pussy. The ugly fuck gets burned so he bars Kobe in a chokehold. What a little bitch.

If he did that in any street game or under the bridge downtown, he would have been shot and left for dead.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Hey, at least he doesn't run into the stands to fight with fans. So subtle. :angel
Your point?




You've posted numerous times here saying Bowen doesn't do any physical harm, you've been proven wrong numerous times: headbutt, kick to the back, flying kick to the face etc.

Why is it so hard for you to admit this?

Then to top it off, you try steer this off topic even further by bringing Artest into this discussion. Take off the blinders lady. Bowen is dirty, Artest can be dirty, and I have no problem with it, I actually like it.

[A-Train]

Poor Kobe the victim.

[FloppinIsGreat]

He also gets to close when a player shoots and then comes down on him, it happens all the time.

:lol :lol :lol Thank you, that gave me a damn good laugh. I know the kick was wrong, but getting right up on a guy during a jump shot is how you are supposed to play defense. You don't let the offensive player just shoot, you take away any personal space he has with your arms up without hitting him. It's great strategy, not dirty. Go get an instructional video and then return with a more informed voice. :lol

[JamStone]

I saw that but it sounds better than he shouldn't be suspended.


I think that would make Nash look like a lying fool. Anyone who saw the clip knows Nash was staring right at the play about a foot away. Better to say nothing at all than to say "I really didn't see the play" or "I'm not sure what happened."

[nkdlunch]

Bell is a pussy. The ugly fuck gets burned so he bars Kobe in a chokehold. What a little bitch.

If he did that in any street game or under the bridge downtown, he would have been shot and left for dead.

And what about Kobe's elbows??

There is no difference between Bowens and Raja Bells style of play. If Bell was playing for the Spurs everyone here would love him.

[FloppinIsGreat]

That was pretty bad. Not only did Bell grab Kobe around his kneck and twist him around, the then used his other arm to push him down. Kobe litterally bounces on the hardwood floor if you look at the video. :wow

He'll definitely be suspended next game, no question. And that foul by Kwame Brown people are comparing it to isn't even close. What I don't get is, why is Bell so dumb? It's not like the Suns were losing the game. I know he and Kobe were getting into some heated fights out there, but still. He could have given Kobe a hard foul on his way to the basket...he didn't have to make such an obvious flagarant. :rolleyes

Now to get back on topic... This is actually a result of a lot of bad blood between kobe and bell. Bell was with the 76ers when kobe was a high school player in philly, and kobe would regularly practice with the 76ers during that time (due to his dad's connections I guess). From what i've heard kobe would routinely disrespect bell while they were playing and that has grown into a hatred of sorts. You can't just go and lay a guy out with this much on the line, but the tension between these two goes back way farther than the small jabs and elbows of the series.

[picnroll]

Your point?




You've posted numerous times here saying Bowen doesn't do any physical harm, you've been proven wrong numerous times: headbutt, kick to the back, flying kick to the face etc.

Why is it so hard for you to admit this?

Then to top it off, you try steer this off topic even further by bringing Artest into this discussion. Take off the blinders lady. Bowen is dirty, Artest can be dirty, and I have no problem with it, I actually like it.

harm

n 1: any physical damage to the body caused by violence or accident or fracture etc. [syn: injury, hurt, trauma] 2: the occurrence of a change for the worse [syn: damage, impairment] 3: the act of damaging something or someone [syn: damage, hurt, scathe] v : cause or do harm to; "These pills won't harm your system"


What the fuck are you talking about? The only harm Bowen has ever caused anyone in a ten yerar NBA career is when Carter Sprained his ankle.

Now if you want to talk about Karl Malone and harm you will not be talking BS.

[JamStone]

What many people aren't talking about is the elbow that Kobe through to clear space which caught Bell FLUSH on the jaw and knowcked him down to the ground. BLEEEP ....Foul on Bell?
Yup, gotta love them refs.

On that particular play, Kobe cleared again with his left side pointy elbow...then bulldog time.

Bell had been getting that type of physicality all game, so he paid back in kind. Let's just say that he isn't as subtle as Kobe.


I think that subtlety is the distinction right there. Had Raja Bell just delivered a very hard foul on Kobe from behind and even remotely tried to make it look like a play on the ball, there would be no suspension. Raja stood flat footed, let Kobe pass him, then clotheslined him, hooked his neck, and shoved him to the ground. There is no gray area to defend him. Raja Bell even admitted he got carried away and crossed the line. The intent is obvious. Whether Kobe elbows opponents on purpose or not, he doesn't make it overt and obvious that he intends to hurt them. While you think Kobe's elbows are just as bad, your admission that Kobe is more subtle answers the question as to why Raja will be suspended and Kobe won't be.

[Obstructed_View]

I didn't see Kobe's elbow land flush to anything. I haven't studied it over and over, but it looked at best like a glancing blow and at worst that Raja flopped. It's funny that if Manu gets hit and falls, he automatically flopped and is a dirty sorry flopper, but when other people do it it just gets ignored.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

[I]harm

n 1: any physical damage to the body caused by violence or accident or fracture etc. [syn: injury, hurt, trauma]
What the fuck are you talking about? The only harm Bowen has ever caused anyone in a ten yerar NBA career is when Carter Sprained his ankle.

Now if you want to talk about Karl Malone and harm you will not be talking BS.I didn't know you were a walking fucking dictionary. Maybe I should have used a different word, like hurt. Oh wait, that's a fucking synonym of harm. It's right there listed next to injury. :wow


Maybe I should have used the word malicious to describe Bowen's acts instead, since he actually didn't hurt anyone, but the intent was there.

Main Entry: mal·ice
Pronunciation: 'ma-l&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin malitia, from malus bad
1 : desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another

[The Great One]

I didn't know you were a walking fucking dictionary. Maybe I should have used a different word, like hurt. Oh wait, that's a fucking synonym of harm. It's right there listed next to injury. :wow


Maybe I should have used the word malicious to describe Bowen's acts instead, since he actually didn't hurt anyone, but the intent was there.

Main Entry: mal·ice
Pronunciation: 'ma-l&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin malitia, from malus bad
1 : desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another

what the hell are all the kings fans doing here? i thought you all committed suicide after 2002? oh well, you've got some spunk i guess. must be hard to cheer for a team that never wins shit.

[The Great One]

I know this should go in NBA forum but am I alone in thinking that what Bell did to Kobe is DEFINITELY deserving of at least a one game suspension!?!?

Here's what Nash said in the press conference


Q: Are you worried that Bell will be suspended for Game 6?


Nash: No, because if Brown wasn't suspended for elbowing Boris to the ground and shoving his crotch in his face, why should Bell be suspended?
fuck raja bell. fuck steve nash. those little bitches are getting dispatched in game 6 and then we wont have to put up with their cheap shotting asses any more. mike d'antoni looks like a 70's porn star posing as a coach. he's not good enough to hold phil's balls on his best day.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

what the hell are all the kings fans doing here? i thought you all committed suicide after 2002? oh well, you've got some spunk i guess. must be hard to cheer for a team that never wins shit.The question is.....................why are you here?

[Medvedenko]

Seriously....he must get suspended...that's a bush league play to the highest degree. No one will remember Raja Bell in 5 years let alone in the annals of the game. People comparing it to the Boris and Kwame incident definitely need to look at the game footage from that incident. Boris flopped once he felt contact, secondly Kobe's "elbow" didnt' even connect with Raja at all. The replay clearly shows a ton of space between Raja's wincing and Kobe's elbow. He flopped and got the call, just like he's been doing all series. He's basically molesting Kobe all over the court, grabbing his jersey, throwing arm bars, forearm shivers in the back almost everytime Kobe posts him up. He's not a good defender, he's just a prick. I have more respect for Bowen than I do have for Raja. Yes, Kobe retaliates with the best of them, but come game 6, Kobe will go off and these Suns can get their fishing tackle ready. Enough already...they flop more than any team I have ever seen.

[picnroll]

I didn't know you were a walking fucking dictionary. Maybe I should have used a different word, like hurt. Oh wait, that's a fucking synonym of harm. It's right there listed next to injury. :wow


Maybe I should have used the word malicious to describe Bowen's acts instead, since he actually didn't hurt anyone, but the intent was there.

Main Entry: mal·ice
Pronunciation: 'ma-l&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin malitia, from malus bad
1 : desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another
I'm truly sorry if Bruce hurt any Kings or Kings' fans feelings. I'm sure Bruce feels equally sorry.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I'm truly sorry if Bruce hurt any Kings or Kings' fans feelings. I'm sure Bruce feels equally sorry.What does this have to do with the Kings? We are talking about Bowen kicking Ray in the back, headbutting Vince, and karate kicking Wally. Its easy to see you have nothing more to argue since you've resorted to a King's diss. Peace, I'm done with you.

[The Great One]

What does this have to do with the Kings? We are talking about Bowen kicking Ray in the back, headbutting Vince, and karate kicking Wally. Its easy to see you have nothing more to argue since you've resorted to a King's diss. Peace, I'm done with you.
i like bruce. he plays tough... even kobe said he is the best defender in the league. anyone who thinks he plays dirty is a crying, whinning, sorry excuse for a fan.

[The Great One]

Seriously....he must get suspended...that's a bush league play to the highest degree. No one will remember Raja Bell in 5 years let alone in the annals of the game. People comparing it to the Boris and Kwame incident definitely need to look at the game footage from that incident. Boris flopped once he felt contact, secondly Kobe's "elbow" didnt' even connect with Raja at all. The replay clearly shows a ton of space between Raja's wincing and Kobe's elbow. He flopped and got the call, just like he's been doing all series. He's basically molesting Kobe all over the court, grabbing his jersey, throwing arm bars, forearm shivers in the back almost everytime Kobe posts him up. He's not a good defender, he's just a prick. I have more respect for Bowen than I do have for Raja. Yes, Kobe retaliates with the best of them, but come game 6, Kobe will go off and these Suns can get their fishing tackle ready. Enough already...they flop more than any team I have ever seen.

"who is raja bell?"..... "who is karim garcia?" :lol

[picnroll]

What does this have to do with the Kings? We are talking about Bowen kicking Ray in the back, headbutting Vince, and karate kicking Wally. Its easy to see you have nothing more to argue since you've resorted to a King's diss. Peace, I'm done with you.
Nothing to do with the Kings. Only to do with Kings' pussy fans who whine about Bruce. Listen to Kobe's post game interview. BB is a physical game, shit happens. Kobe said elbows get thrown all the time. Live with it or go watch the girl's YMCA league.

[The Great One]

What does this have to do with the Kings? We are talking about Bowen kicking Ray in the back, headbutting Vince, and karate kicking Wally. Its easy to see you have nothing more to argue since you've resorted to a King's diss. Peace, I'm done with you.
Peace, i'm done with you?? Where are you from my weasely little friend? I think you do play in the girl's ymca league.

[A-Train]

Hey...no harm, no suspension.

[Medvedenko]

I truly believe the hit was intentional...they were up huge in Game 5 and were coasting for the victory. Raja hits Kobe hard to possibly get Kobe into an altercation that would have them both suspended for game 6.....what a prick. Luckily for Kobe he kept his cool...

[smoke1]

Kobe is as cool as a colorado maid...

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Only to do with Kings' pussy fans who whine about Bruce.
I've never complained about Bruce, I like his play as I stated earlier in this thread.....

Bowen is dirty, Artest can be dirty, and I have no problem with it, I actually like it.

I was merely pointing out to 1parker1 how blind she is to the fact that Bowen can play dirty.

[smoke1]

I've never complained about Bruce, I like his play as I stated earlier in this thread.....


I was merely pointing out to 1parker1 how blind she is to the fact that Bowen can play dirty.
you dirty bastard. how dare you call bruce dirty?? I shall kick you in the back and place my foot under your shoe when you land to intentionally sprain your ankle, or maybe get lucky and break that fucker clean off. Don't you ever talk like that again... :lol :lol

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Bell is an idiot. Those elbows he caught might've connected, I'm not really sure, either way he clearly flopped. Now just flopping, whatever, he's trying to draw attention and get the call, fine. But then trying to use those flops as justification for clotheslining a guy is just ridiculous.

[Tanya]

Bell should get two game suspension. That act was totally intentional and stupid. I don't consider it PHYSICAL PLAY and you can't compare it to throwing elbow for fighting position during the game. Bell is idiot. Maybe he wants his team to go fishing as soon as possible?

[A-Train]

Bell should receive an award.

[RonMexico]

We got alot of drama queens around here, bell wasn't trying to hurt kobe and it really wasn't that bad at all. It was a dumb move no question but all he did was grab kobe and trip him to the ground, oh no! Just give him a big fine and move on. The whole suspensions thing has gotten way out of had and players are still playing physical, if the league really wants to send a message they should just fine the players big amounts of money.

You guys are so hypocritical it's not even funny. How many times has Bowen crossed the line with Vince Carter or Ray Allen? How is this any different?

Thank you - at least Bowen is more discreet when he pulls stuff off (like kicking Ray in the back), but he still does it. I hate when Spurs fans act like their team is above anything like that... I mean, I'm sure Rodman never fouled anyone hard or got ejected back in the day :elephant ... and Kobe is #1 bitch up there with Ray-Ray and Vince Carter - all of them are pussified primadonnas and Raja finally did what probably everyone in the league has been wanting to do for years now (no doubt Shaq has, but he only gets 2 chances per season and is not elbowed in the face/held for 48 minutes in 5 straight games)...

The problem is that Raja doesn't give Kobe an inch, but aside from a few flops, he pretty much plays him as hard and straight up as anyone in the league ever has... what you all fail to notice (and I've reviewed via TiVo) is that everytime Kobe gets screened he grabs the screener, pushes them, then throws his arms up immediately like he hasn't done anything, and if he ever gets called for a foul, he is in the refs face acting like he hasn't done anything... as a high school basketball official, when you hear someone riding you the whole game, I can attest that eventually, you want to stop hearing it and either start giving them calls or throw them out... and I only get it from little kids and low-paid coaches, not multi-million dollar pussy athletes and the "Zen Master."

Phil is able to get away with shouting explitives at Raja from the bench and Kobe is on the refs the whole game (after every timeout, end of quarter/half) and I think that's why he got ejected because they were sick of hearing it... then Kobe puts that smile on his face and acts like "you're throwing me out?" - someone needs to stop allowing him to think he's untouchable... Lastly, I'm not supporting Bell or saying what he did is acceptable - I'm very angry both as a Suns fan and as a basketball fan that the situation reached this point... if you watch the replay again, you'll see Kobe give Raja a slap and small elbow and I think he just snapped and took Kobe down as hard as he could... at the same time, I'm really glad that someone finally did it to Kobe especially when he acts like he's tough player who "grew up playing like this in Philly" (yeah, his dad was in the NBA - Kobe grew up in white private school Lower Merion... not Philly)... that hit he put on Mike Miller is inexcusable and I got really pissed off early in this thread when everyone is protecting Kobe and acting like he's never done anything "outside the scope of the game to hurt another player"...

Needless to say, I think a professional athlete needs to show a little more class and an ability to keep a level head, especially when trying to help his team come back from a 3-1 deficit... by next season, I'll probably be over it and can enjoy watching Kobe eat shit even more so than I do right now... beyond that, I agree with a lot of the posters that Luke Walton made a really hard foul and Smush Parker got away with tackling Tim Thomas right after it (Boris Diaw got a tech on the play, when Kobe came up behind him and pushed him in the back and he ran into Walton) and then Kwame elbowed Diaw and taunted him and just received a tech on the play (Diaw got a personal foul too on the play because the refs can't ever let the Lakers receive the disadvantage on any type of call... twice in the same game - Walton flagrant, Diaw gets tech as make-up, then Kwame got a tech and Diaw gets personal foul as a make-up)... let's just admit that with the amount of bitching that Phil and Kobe did after Game 1 (when Kobe took 4 steps and then got slapped on the head by Tim Thomas), that for 3 games, the refs tried to give the Lakers the series, all culminating with 2 comebacks in a combined 18 seconds of play in what I think was the greatest homecooking event in all of professional basketball. I just think the Suns got tired of hearing they were soft and letting the Lakers be too physical with them and it has all culminated with them having to go into Staples without their top defensive stopper and pull off a huge victory - I've also considered that hopefully the Suns are banking the league's greediness to make the refs force a Game 7 so we can all see the Kobe/Raja redux event.

[RonMexico]

Bell should get two game suspension. That act was totally intentional and stupid. I don't consider it PHYSICAL PLAY and you can't compare it to throwing elbow for fighting position during the game. Bell is idiot. Maybe he wants his team to go fishing as soon as possible?

Yeah, and maybe Ben Wallace never pushed Ron Artest in the throat (not supporting what Artest did or the brawl that ensued) and we've never seen Rip Hamilton kick, elbow, and push people because he's one of the biggest pussies and whiners in the entire league (I don't know if I've seen such a player fold under heavy defense in my entire life)... actually, you should just shut-up right now, because your team didn't receive the "Bad Boys" tag in the 80s and 90s because they cooked the other team dinner and gave them massages after the game - it's because Rodman and Laimbeer would push, pull, hit, grab, and throw every player ranging from Larry Bird to Jerome Kersey... please don't tell me you've forgotten about those championships and the attitude of that team so quickly...

[MI21]

Raja Bell is a little bitch, can't stand the fucker. Remember in 2003 WCF when he almost cleaned Tony up with the purposely swung elbow. Can't stand him since then.

Suspension was definitly deserved, but I would of loved to have seen him play Game 6 against Kobe, would have been fantastic.

[RonMexico]

Now to get back on topic... This is actually a result of a lot of bad blood between kobe and bell. Bell was with the 76ers when kobe was a high school player in philly, and kobe would regularly practice with the 76ers during that time (due to his dad's connections I guess). From what i've heard kobe would routinely disrespect bell while they were playing and that has grown into a hatred of sorts. You can't just go and lay a guy out with this much on the line, but the tension between these two goes back way farther than the small jabs and elbows of the series.


Wow - just when I thought your posts couldn't get any worse, you go and totally redeem yourself... do you have a fact-checking gene in your body??? Do you really think that if you write it on this message board, then it is somehow true?? Please tell me, because I'm very confused. I mean, 3 seconds on Yahoo Sports proves that Kobe was in the NBA before Raja had even graduated college... then Raja was in the CBA and overseas for about 2 season before Popovich calls up Larry Brown and says, "hey, sign this guy" (btw, in the 2000 off-season, Raja was the last cut to make the Spurs roster, so he was almost one of your boys), and then Raja plays 5 games for the 76ers before the playoffs begin, where they eventually play the Lakers in the finals!!!! I have a feeling that maybe some bad blood started there and continued to when Raja moved to the Mavs and played Kobe more often in the season. Also, to save you the energy, Bell went to Florida International University, which I don't remember being anywhere near Philadelphia or Lower Merion, PA...

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Thank you - at least Bowen is more discreet when he pulls stuff off (like kicking Ray in the back), but he still does it.
Sorry, I forgot, when was the last time Bruce Bowen hurt his team by getting suspended for an obvious cheap shot?

[RonMexico]

Raja Bell is a little bitch, can't stand the fucker. Remember in 2003 WCF when he almost cleaned Tony up with the purposely swung elbow. Can't stand him since then.

Suspension was definitly deserved, but I would of loved to have seen him play Game 6 against Kobe, would have been fantastic.


Yeah, but not as bad as Juwan Howard's complete and unwarranted raping of Derek Anderson that ruined Spurs' chances that year.... Let's admit it, when you see Tony, I think there's only a few people in the world that wouldn't want to take an elbow to that smug French face...

[RonMexico]

Sorry, I forgot, when was the last time Bruce Bowen hurt his team by getting suspended for an obvious cheap shot?


Hence, I said he was more discreet... discreet is the antonym of obvious... they only way I can remember such a thing where his play affected the team is that he got Ray-Ray mad enough to cry to the refs and Stu Jackson to watch Bowen closer last year and he fouled out during one of the 2 games the Sonics won last year, and then the series went back to SA and everything was back to normal... then Duncan said "FU" and won it in 6.

[MI21]

Let's admit it, when you see Tony, I think there's only a few people in the world that wouldn't want to take an elbow to that smug French face...

http://www.allbasketball.com/biography_player/pic_identity/parker.jpghttp://www.allbasketball.com/biography_player/pic_identity/parker.jpghttp://www.allbasketball.com/biography_player/pic_identity/parker.jpghttp://www.allbasketball.com/biography_player/pic_identity/parker.jpg

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ENJOY.

[RonMexico]

Needless to say, I think a professional athlete needs to show a little more class and an ability to keep a level head, especially when trying to help his team come back from a 3-1 deficit... .

I figured I'd help you to the end of my post as well and mention again that I thought it was a classless play that may have cost the Suns the series... but I love seeing Kobe eat shit.

[mike detroit]

Yeah, and maybe Ben Wallace never pushed Ron Artest in the throat (not supporting what Artest did or the brawl that ensued) and we've never seen Rip Hamilton kick, elbow, and push people because he's one of the biggest pussies and whiners in the entire league (I don't know if I've seen such a player fold under heavy defense in my entire life)... actually, you should just shut-up right now, because your team didn't receive the "Bad Boys" tag in the 80s and 90s because they cooked the other team dinner and gave them massages after the game - it's because Rodman and Laimbeer would push, pull, hit, grab, and throw every player ranging from Larry Bird to Jerome Kersey... please don't tell me you've forgotten about those championships and the attitude of that team so quickly...

the idea that wallace slammed artest in the throat(rather than just shoved him in the chest), which I've watched grow day by day since the brawl happened, is probably the most hilarious bit of fiction I've heard concerning the brawl.

also, people might take you more seriously if you didn't base your arguements on nicknames. remember, i said "might". it's still unlikely, as you don't seem very intelligent.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Hence, I said he was more discreet... discreet is the antonym of obvious... they only way I can remember such a thing where his play affected the team is that he got Ray-Ray mad enough to cry to the refs and Stu Jackson to watch Bowen closer last year and he fouled out during one of the 2 games the Sonics won last year, and then the series went back to SA and everything was back to normal... then Duncan said "FU" and won it in 6.
The NBA doesn't consider the obviousness of an action when they take action against the player, they consider the severity of the action, the potential for injury, etc. The reason Bowen doesn't get suspended isn't that he's somehow less obvious when he's doing dangerous things, it's because he doesn't do anything comparable to clotheslining a player on the way to the basket.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I figured I'd help you to the end of my post as well and mention again that I thought it was a classless play that may have cost the Suns the series... but I love seeing Kobe eat shit.

uhh the lakers have humiliated Nash and the suns times a 100

hardly anyone expected the lakers to be up 3-2

[mike detroit]

The reason Bowen doesn't get suspended isn't that he's somehow less obvious when he's doing dangerous things, it's because he doesn't do anything comparable to clotheslining a player on the way to the basket.

he's right. good defensive players in the nba commit plenty of fouls, they just know how to get away with it. part of that is not stupidly doing things that are dangerous to other players.

[RonMexico]

The NBA doesn't consider the obviousness of an action when they take action against the player, they consider the severity of the action, the potential for injury, etc. The reason Bowen doesn't get suspended isn't that he's somehow less obvious when he's doing dangerous things, it's because he doesn't do anything comparable to clotheslining a player on the way to the basket.


They also don't go back and review things that Bowen does like they would with Ron Artest (see - elbow to Ginobili)... you think if Bowen did that to Ray, he would get suspended? No, because he generally does not act in the malicious manner that players like Artest do.

[mike detroit]

They also don't go back and review things that Bowen does like they would with Ron Artest (see - elbow to Ginobili)... you think if Bowen did that to Ray, he would get suspended? No, because he generally does not act in the malicious manner that players like Artest do.


the fbi also doesn't monitor the activities of nuns as closely as it does neo-nazis

[RonMexico]

uhh the lakers have humiliated Nash and the suns times a 100

hardly anyone expected the lakers to be up 3-2


As a "realistic Spurs Fan" maybe you should also be a realistic basketball viewer and tell me how the Lakers would have won Game 4 without a little bit of home cooking... i.e. questionable jumpball call (oh and Luke Walton's foot was out of bounds when his hand was on the ball... somehow Bennett Salvatore - I think Spurs fans tend to hate him too - did not see that, although it happened about 3 inches in front of him)... I like how easy it is for you to comment on series and games not involving your team when I'm pretty sure if Dirk starts getting a lot of calls in the next series, there will be a thread on here complaining about how Bowen (or whoever is guarding him) isn't respected as a defender... oh and there's already been one titled "well, we got the Bennett and Bavetta games over..."

C'mon, man, let's ask for a little consistency in opinions... I'm not going to place all blame on officials, but I see a disparity once Kobe and Phil started complaining about the number of FTs the Suns got... either way, if Diaw hit both FTs in regulation of Game 4, we might not even be having this discussion. I just remember reading when Duncan "didn't get the respect from the officials that the MVP deserves" and then suddenly those arguments aren't valid when used to describe a terrible call on Steve Nash simply because he doesn't play for the Spurs? I mean, let's not forget that all of you went insane when George Karl complained about calls and the Nuggets stole a game last year, but ignore it when Kobe and Phil do something similar after losing Game 1.

[mike detroit]

As a "realistic Spurs Fan" maybe you should also be a realistic basketball viewer and tell me how the Lakers would have won Game 4 without a little bit of home cooking... i.e. questionable jumpball call (oh and Luke Walton's foot was out of bounds when his hand was on the ball... somehow Bennett Salvatore - I think Spurs fans tend to hate him too - did not see that, although it happened about 3 inches in front of him)... I like how easy it is for you to comment on series and games not involving your team when I'm pretty sure if Dirk starts getting a lot of calls in the next series, there will be a thread on here complaining about how Bowen (or whoever is guarding him) isn't respected as a defender... oh and there's already been one titled "well, we got the Bennett and Bavetta games over..."

C'mon, man, let's ask for a little consistency in opinions... I'm not going to place all blame on officials, but I see a disparity once Kobe and Phil started complaining about the number of FTs the Suns got... either way, if Diaw hit both FTs in regulation of Game 4, we might not even be having this discussion. I just remember reading when Duncan "didn't get the respect from the officials that the MVP deserves" and then suddenly those arguments aren't valid when used to describe a terrible call on Steve Nash simply because he doesn't play for the Spurs? I mean, let's not forget that all of you went insane when George Karl complained about calls and the Nuggets stole a game last year, but ignore it when Kobe and Phil do something similar after losing Game 1.


i see a disparity in the lakers success once kobe started playing good basketball, i hope the league investigates this.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

No, because he generally does not act in the malicious manner that players like Artest do.
That's my whole point. I guess I'm just tired that every time some idiot on another team does something dirty opposing fans always bring up Bowen and claim he's at the same level as these fools.

[RonMexico]

The NBA doesn't consider the obviousness of an action when they take action against the player, they consider the severity of the action, the potential for injury, etc. The reason Bowen doesn't get suspended isn't that he's somehow less obvious when he's doing dangerous things, it's because he doesn't do anything comparable to clotheslining a player on the way to the basket.


The debate here is not whether Bell should be suspended or whether it was a clean play - it is obvious that it was a dirty play and that he deserves the suspension, and it pisses me off that he lost his cool because it's like Kobe had won again. You seem to contradict yourself in this statement - "The NBA doesn't consider the obviousness of an action... [Bowen] doesn't do anything comparable to clotheslining a player..." Clotheslining a player is obvious - that's why it's a suspension - just like going into the stands to punch the wrong Detroit fan means the league will look at the video of your elbow to another player's face towards the end of a blowout game.

Nothing Bowen does, in my mind, warrants a suspension at all, but that doesn't mean he's not a dirty player or has done dirty things (like jump kicking Wally S. and kicking Ray on the ground). My original point was that I hate how the Spurs fans on this board (a) would love Raja Bell and his intensity and don't want to admit it and (b) act like such actions would be so far above any Spurs player. Trust me, the type of elbow Artest threw is stuff Kobe does every game, but gets away with it because he's Kobe and Ginobili drew a lot of attention to the action by flailing his entire body like he does all the time.

[mike detroit]

The debate here is not whether Bell should be suspended or whether it was a clean play - it is obvious that it was a dirty play and that he deserves the suspension, and it pisses me off that he lost his cool because it's like Kobe had won again. You seem to contradict yourself in this statement - "The NBA doesn't consider the obviousness of an action... [Bowen] doesn't do anything comparable to clotheslining a player..." Clotheslining a player is obvious - that's why it's a suspension - just like going into the stands to punch the wrong Detroit fan means the league will look at the video of your elbow to another player's face towards the end of a blowout game.

Nothing Bowen does, in my mind, warrants a suspension at all, but that doesn't mean he's not a dirty player or has done dirty things (like jump kicking Wally S. and kicking Ray on the ground). My original point was that I hate how the Spurs fans on this board (a) would love Raja Bell and his intensity and don't want to admit it and (b) act like such actions would be so far above any Spurs player. Trust me, the type of elbow Artest threw is stuff Kobe does every game, but gets away with it because he's Kobe and Ginobili drew a lot of attention to the action by flailing his entire body like he does all the time.


1. he was already suspended, there's not much debate anymore.
2. yes, bowen would get away with more than bell would. ben wallace would too. that's just the way it works in the nba.

is that really so shocking? the nba has favored it's stars for a long time. it's not as obvious on defense, but they do the same thing they do with their offensive studs.

[RonMexico]

i see a disparity in the lakers success once kobe started playing good basketball, i hope the league investigates this.


I see a disparity in Rip Hamilton's season stats and the playoff ones where he folds when the pressure is on and likes throwing elbows to other players' faces. Maybe they should investigate presence of a vagina.

You obviously know little about basketball, and that's unfortunate, but there are lot of factors beyond Kobe's play in the series that have affected the outcomes. His play in this series has given the Lakers a chance to be in every game of the series (except game 5) and it's shock factor is probably what stands out most in people's minds. But the Suns talent and chemistry I think can outweigh anything Kobe can do individually, if the Suns make the proper adjustments (which they seemed to do last game until Bell got thrown out) and increase their intensity by diving after loose balls and hustling on the boards. I don't think the Lakers' role players have the mettle and confidence to get through periods of poor play, so once this confidence is shaken a little, I think the Suns can regain the edge... mostly because Nash is much more of a teamplayer to begin with than this new Kobe thinks he is.

Lastly, like the MVP and coach of my team, I don't generally call out officiating or the coddling of superstars by the league, but when they admit on around the horn, sportscenter and PTI that perhaps there is a little Lakers home cookin' going on, I tend to agree... As you can tell, Nash and D'Antoni have stopped trying to be diplomatic and cordial about the disparity of calls/breaks in the series and I actually like it even though I wish everything could be decided on the court and not in press conferences. However, Kobe thinks he deserves to be able to move around the court at will and if he gets touched by anyone, tends to start grabbing, throwing elbows, and yapping at the refs. He also seems to think that he can get in the face of every player on the Suns and I think Raja wanted to say something about it (in typical primadonna pussy fashion, Kobe just lies there on the ground and does nothing). If you didn't notice, last night when his teammates weren't hitting those shots they have in the series, he went into old Kobe mode and started jacking up shots (almost scored 30 for the first time in the playoffs and probably would have if he didn't get ejected).

It's funny that he and the Lakers must be playing so well, but they've needed questionable jumpball and block/charge calls in towards the end of two games in order to close them out... and the Suns have been playing very sub-par this series so far to begin with... think about it a little bit.

[RonMexico]

the idea that wallace slammed artest in the throat(rather than just shoved him in the chest), which I've watched grow day by day since the brawl happened, is probably the most hilarious bit of fiction I've heard concerning the brawl.

also, people might take you more seriously if you didn't base your arguements on nicknames. remember, i said "might". it's still unlikely, as you don't seem very intelligent.


Oh man, I didn't see this one before... what are you talking about? Nicknames? "Bad Boys" - what would you prefer? "Back-to-back NBA Champion Detroit Pistons" (1989 and 1990)? Laimbeer once tackled Kevin McHale and that had nothing to do with "fighting for position" and pushed Charles Barkley in the back and thrown a punch at him.

You've pretty much made a terrible point that did not address what I said aside from the fact that I cited many sportswriters and media individuals that said he "pushed" not "slammed" Artest in the throat. Don't get me wrong - the paraellel I draw from that situation to this one is that Big Ben (and beer throwing fan) did what everyone in the league wanted to at that time - take Ron Artest down a notch and I don't blame him for it at all. Raja pretty much did the same thing to Kobe last night... sometimes people lose their tempers on the court and grab another guy by the neck - others just try to rape a white girl in Colorado... to each his own. (Ironically, Kobe pulled a similar move to Artest but instead of lying down on the scorer's table with a smug look on his face, he "brushed his shoulders off" and wagged his finger.) I'm surprised a Detroit fan (by that I mean, a fan of the team in Detroit... the place where the biggest brawl in the history of the NBA occurred) would even try to stand up for Kobe in this situation...

[mike detroit]

Oh man, I didn't see this one before... what are you talking about? Nicknames? "Bad Boys" - what would you prefer? "Back-to-back NBA Champion Detroit Pistons" (1989 and 1990)? Laimbeer once tackled Kevin McHale and that had nothing to do with "fighting for position" and pushed Charles Barkley in the back and thrown a punch at him.

You've pretty much made a terrible point that did not address what I said aside from the fact that I cited many sportswriters and media individuals that said he "pushed" not "slammed" Artest in the throat. Don't get me wrong - the paraellel I draw from that situation to this one is that Big Ben (and beer throwing fan) did what everyone in the league wanted to at that time - take Ron Artest down a notch and I don't blame him for it at all. Raja pretty much did the same thing to Kobe last night... sometimes people lose their tempers on the court and grab another guy by the neck - others just try to rape a white girl in Colorado... to each his own. (Ironically, Kobe pulled a similar move to Artest but instead of lying down on the scorer's table with a smug look on his face, he "brushed his shoulders off" and wagged his finger.) I'm surprised a Detroit fan (by that I mean, a fan of the team in Detroit... the place where the biggest brawl in the history of the NBA occurred) would even try to stand up for Kobe in this situation...


haha i hurt your feelings. it's okay, sally, no need to get all pissed off. stop basing your emotions off sports teams and, SURPRISE, you might be less emotional.

also, the ron mexico joke stopped being funny about a year and a half ago, at best. yay for topical user names.x

[Winnipeg_Spur]

The debate here is not whether Bell should be suspended or whether it was a clean play - it is obvious that it was a dirty play and that he deserves the suspension, and it pisses me off that he lost his cool because it's like Kobe had won again. You seem to contradict yourself in this statement - "The NBA doesn't consider the obviousness of an action... doesn't do anything comparable to clotheslining a player..." [B]Clotheslining a player is obvious - that's why it's a suspension - just like going into the stands to punch the wrong Detroit fan means the league will look at the video of your elbow to another player's face towards the end of a blowout game.
See, I disagree with that. Clotheslining a player is a suspension not because it's "obvious" but because it's a dangerous and violent action. If someone does something equally dangerous they'll likely be suspended as well, even if it happens to be more subtle than what Bell did.


Nothing Bowen does, in my mind, warrants a suspension at all, but that doesn't mean he's not a dirty player or has done dirty things (like jump kicking Wally S. and kicking Ray on the ground).
He may be a dirty player (depending on what in your mind entails being dirty) but he must not be nearly as dirty as other players (like Raja) since "nothing Bowen does, in [your] mind, warrants a suspension at all."


My original point was that I hate how the Spurs fans on this board (a) would love Raja Bell and his intensity and don't want to admit it and (b) act like such actions would be so far above any Spurs player.
I would've liked to have Bell on the Spurs going into this season, but after this incident I don't know. I don't really want to rely on a player that has shown he can lose his head and get himself suspended for crucial playoff games. As for (b), I'm not going to say I know the history of every Spurs player in terms of those kinds of fouls, but I will say for Bruce in particular (since he's singled out so much) that he hasn't done anything close to that bad, at least in his career with the Spurs.


Trust me, the type of elbow Artest threw is stuff Kobe does every game, but gets away with it because he's Kobe and Ginobili drew a lot of attention to the action by flailing his entire body like he does all the time.
Yes there definately was a double standard with the Artest suspension, but he's earned that double standard imo. BTW, Bell has been flopping big time all series any time Kobe makes any contact with him, so Manu isn't the only one who draws attention.

[mike detroit]

Yes there definately was a double standard with the Artest suspension, but he's earned that double standard imo.


ding ding ding ding!!! we have a winner. look, mikevick, somebody else figured it out all on their own! when you stop expecting reputation to play no roll in this kind of thing, you'll probably spend less time being a stereotype.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Lakers and Phil run the show........

Stern wont suspend his biggest money maker..

but he will suspend someone who could get in the way of his wetdream fantasy (LA-LA 2nd round)

[RonMexico]

haha i hurt your feelings. it's okay, sally, no need to get all pissed off. stop basing your emotions off sports teams and, SURPRISE, you might be less emotional.

also, the ron mexico joke stopped being funny about a year and a half ago, at best. yay for topical user names.x


No, you didn't hurt my feelings at all - I just didn't know what you were talking about. "Yay" for sticking to the topic of what you quote. I guess because it's the second time in a row you attack me personally rather than the argument I've made, it's something you do when you can't make an intelligent response? I'm really not sure - I wasn't emotional when I wrote back to you, so I don't know where you came up with that one. I'm just a little confused right now because I'm assuming you must have become a Detroit fan around 2003 and don't know who Kevin McHale, Charles Barkely, or Bill Laimbeer are, so you can't comment on what I said.

Ironic still that you called me "emotional" and complained that you laughed when I said Wallace "slammed" him in the troat (although I said "pushed"), because it's such a "hilarious bit of fiction" - whoa, slow down there, Sally... seemed like there was a little emotion there, but I guess we'll just go to making fun of people's avitars and user names because that's how mature arguments are conducted.

So, let's continue - if you look at when I chose my name, it was a year and a half ago when I signed up, so it was topical at that point - I just see no reason to change it now. Rasheed stopped being cool after his 16th tech of the season, so I guess you might want to look into changing that pic of yours... And then to your posts afterwards - "when you stop expecting reputation to play no roll..." the "roll" you refer to there should be "role" as in (according to dictionary.com) "normal or customary activity of a person in a particular social setting; 'what is your role on the team?'"... continuing on to Canadian Spur, "there definately was a double standard..." should be "definitely" as in "definitely spell words right when you want to make a point."

Just want to make sure everyone who has an education past 3rd grade doesn't have problems reading your posts or trying to deduce the points of your argument...

[RonMexico]

See, I disagree with that. Clotheslining a player is a suspension not because it's "obvious" but because it's a dangerous and violent action. If someone does something equally dangerous they'll likely be suspended as well, even if it happens to be more subtle than what Bell did.


He may be a dirty player (depending on what in your mind entails being dirty) but he must not be nearly as dirty as other players (like Raja) since "nothing Bowen does, in [your] mind, warrants a suspension at all."


I would've liked to have Bell on the Spurs going into this season, but after this incident I don't know. I don't really want to rely on a player that has shown he can lose his head and get himself suspended for crucial playoff games. As for (b), I'm not going to say I know the history of every Spurs player in terms of those kinds of fouls, but I will say for Bruce in particular (since he's singled out so much) that he hasn't done anything close to that bad, at least in his career with the Spurs.


Yes there definately was a double standard with the Artest suspension, but he's earned that double standard imo. BTW, Bell has been flopping big time all series any time Kobe makes any contact with him, so Manu isn't the only one who draws attention.


Alright, you make some good points, but also some typical SA homer comments, which I will breakdown. I'm not really singling out Bruce Bowen just based on my whims or what in my mind "entails being dirty." I'm actually basing it off both multiple years of TV viewing and a player-voted SI.com poll in which Bruce Bowen was voted as the "dirtiest player in the league." I think Raja was on that list, which contradicts what you think is my point that Bowen "must not be nearly as dirty as other players (like Raja)" simply because he hasn't been suspended yet.

My point is that Bruce and Raja have played similar games and been equally tenacious defenders (Raja throws a little Ginobili in there with some flops from time to time, but he definitely still receives a pounding in there and doesn't just flop without at least a fair amount of contact, which I've thought since he was with the Mavs and Sixers, so I'll respect him there), but now Raja may have put himself on the Artest-like radar that could lose him the benefit of the doubt in situations where he might kick Ray Allen on the ground (see Bruce Bowen when he actually did that).

As a person, Bruce is so much more cordial and laid back that Raja's intense personality probably is his downfall. Regardless, I don't support the clotheslining in this case just like I didn't last year when Ginobili got jacked against the Nuggets because it can cause serious injury. Also, he wasn't doing it because Kobe "blew past him to the basket" because if you watch the replay over and over again (which I have), you see Kobe give a slap and elbow as he is driving to the hoop and Raja pulls up and slows down for a split second so he can have the leverage to wrap his arm around Kobe's neck.

(I will admit that I'm a little more satisfied that he did it to Kobe, because unlike Ginobili who got hit for just playing really hard and destroying hte Nuggets, he talks a lot of shit and expects the refs to give him a lot of breaks... Ginobili is still earning a lot of the credibility with the officials he deserves, but not by pulling a Kobe and complaining the whole game or strutting around the court.)

Also, I've never seen Popovich stoop to telling an opposing player that he "fucking deserved it" when he gets an elbow to the face like Phil Jackson did last game. Pop may have given Artest a piece of his mind, but I doubt it consisted of such immature banter. The fact that the Lakers seem to have this respect just handed to them is what makes me most upset (kind of like when the Mavs are at home and the refs get scared of Cuban) because teams like the Spurs and Suns have to earn anything they get.

On the basis of your argument that "potential for injury" warrents a suspension, then why was there no discussion of the unnecessary hard foul by Luke Walton in Game 3 - the potential for Tim Thomas to fall awkwardly and seriously injure himself was high. The league levied the suspension (which was probably shorter than usual in light of the Reggie Evans and Kwame Brown antics) both to say it won't tolerate such behavior, but also because he didn't throw Kobe to the ground or throw a punch, and he in fact, let him fall softly to the court and just walked away, so I think it was less about the injury potential and more about the obvious nature of the foul.

So, in the end, I'm basically saying that Bruce Bowen is a nicer guy on the whole than Ron Artest (and probably Raja Bell) has ever been, so that allows him to embrace the double standard and put in little cheap shots on people (that I know you enjoy because I don't think anyone likes Ray Allen) without fear of being suspended. He's a smart player because he knows the types of players (Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Dirk, Rip Hamilton) who get scared by contact and their game suffers, so he exploits the psychological advantage, as well. Secondly, I think that if Bowen had done the exact same thing Artest did (elbow), he would not have been suspended, but the "intent and potential for injury" would still have been the same (and we've all agreed that's because Artest is under a microscope). What I'm saying is that good teams always have multiple characters and pieces on their team and I embrace Raja's dirty play and tenacious attitude because I respect how hard he plays and how hard he works out there, so I don't understand why you're shying away from that label for Bowen, when pretty much everyone else has agreed that is "dirty," not just me, this "bitter and emotional" Suns fan.

[RonMexico]

According to the league, Bell's suspension was for "excessive and unnecessary contact," not "excessive and unncessary intent and/or potential for injury."

Kind of backs up my statement that the blatant and obvious nature of the clothesline is the chief reason for the suspension.

[Tanya]

Yeah, and maybe Ben Wallace never pushed Ron Artest in the throat (not supporting what Artest did or the brawl that ensued) and we've never seen Rip Hamilton kick, elbow, and push people because he's one of the biggest pussies and whiners in the entire league (I don't know if I've seen such a player fold under heavy defense in my entire life)... actually, you should just shut-up right now, because your team didn't receive the "Bad Boys" tag in the 80s and 90s because they cooked the other team dinner and gave them massages after the game - it's because Rodman and Laimbeer would push, pull, hit, grab, and throw every player ranging from Larry Bird to Jerome Kersey... please don't tell me you've forgotten about those championships and the attitude of that team so quickly...

Wow I had exams last two days so I almost missed your reply FOR ME. I don't hate Bell, I don't even know much about this player. That's just my opinion after I watched that stupid foul. I don't understand why I should shut up.

[RonMexico]

Wow I had exams last two days so I almost missed your reply FOR ME. I don't hate Bell, I don't even know much about this player. That's just my opinion after I watched that stupid foul. I don't understand why I should shut up.


Sorry, I wasn't in a good mood at the time - "shut-up" is retracted, but I think you might have said something about how those kinds of actions have no reason being in the game, and I just wanted to point out the Rodman, Laimbeer, Mahorn days of the Pistons.