In Manu's Last 5 Playoff Road Games ...

[timvp]

In Manu's last five playoff road games, he's averaging 8.9 points per game on 34.1% shooting from the field. In has last five home games, he's averaging 22.4 points per game on 52.7% shooting from the floor.

In the regular season, Manu was actually better on the road than at home. 15.7 points on 48.2% shooting from the field (47.3% from beyond the arc) on the road compared to 14.5 points per game on 44.2% shooting from the field (28.6% from beyond the arc) at home.

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

[Duncanoypi]

Manu will play better tomorrow...vbook it...

[Pistons < Spurs]

Fluke.

I think he's just struggling a bit in this matchup. Artest can do that to you.

His home numbers look so good largely due to Artest being suspended in game 2 (32 points on 50% shooting).

And his away stats.....only 13 attempts combined in games 3 and 4. :spless:

I noticed team assists were also down in those 2 games. IMO the whole team struggled to find it's offensive flow on the road so far in this series. I don't think it's any indication that he needs the home cookin' to get it done.

[Kori Ellis]

People are automatically saying fluke by thinking this only means the two games in Arco this season.

This includes the three games in Detroit in the Finals last year.

I know a lot of people thought Manu deserved to win MVP of the Finals, but he sucked in the road games.

[Pistons < Spurs]

This includes the three games in Detroit in the Finals last year.



Interesting....

What about the other playoff series leading up to the finals? Was this also the case? Or only against Detroit?

[J.T.]

Manu is due for a big road game now. None of the last 5 road games have been elimination games. Only thing that comes close is the game 5 of the finals, which was def a must win situation. I think he'll find some kind of rhythm tomorrow.

[Vashner]

He just needs a rest. He does not need any training or stuff like that.

He had red around his eye's. Stress....

Which can be expected they work so hard and have all the pressure.

[J.T.]

Interesting....

What about the other playoff series leading up to the finals? Was this also the case? Or only against Detroit?

He OWNED Denver. Seattle contained him a bit in some games but I know he had 39 in one of the Seattle games, and high 20s in two of the other ones. He did well against Phoenix too, but Duncan was the most consistent player throughout our postseason last year. He had a LOT of 30+ games.

[SsKSpurs21]

sure your suppose to do better on your home court than on the road but Manu feeds off the crowd. He is a crowd pleaser. He feels the energy and thats what makes him explode, notice everytime he starts going off he motions for the crowd to get louder...EVERYTIME. He loves that attention and he loves that loud atmosphere. he thrives in those situations.

[aaronstampler]

People are automatically saying fluke by thinking this only means the two games in Arco this season.

This includes the three games in Detroit in the Finals last year.

I know a lot of people thought Manu deserved to win MVP of the Finals, but he sucked in the road games.


Um, he had 15 pts and 9 assists in game 5. Not too sucky. And I think he deserved to be MVP of the finals since the team was +31 with him on the floor against Detroit in 7 games vs -5 for Tim.

http://nbaspurs.blogspot.com/2005/06/i-should-just-let-it-go.html

Also, Tim wasn't too hot in games 3 and 4 himself in Detroit. He had 26 points combined and it took him 32 shots to get those 26 points.

[Kori Ellis]

Um, he had 15 pts and 9 assists in game 5. Not too sucky. And I think he deserved to be MVP of the finals since the team was +31 with him on the floor against Detroit in 7 games vs -5 for Tim.

http://nbaspurs.blogspot.com/2005/06/i-should-just-let-it-go.html

Also, Tim wasn't too hot in games 3 and 4 himself in Detroit. He had 26 points combined and it took him 32 shots to get those 26 points.

That's all really irrelevant to what I was trying to say.

I was just pointing out that LJ's averages in the original post include the 3 games in Detroit last year. The first couple people in this thread seemed to think we were just talking about the Sac series

(And he shot 5-for-16 in that Game 5 -- pretty sucky)

[T-Pain]

its pretty tough playing in front of a road crowd, especially right now at ARCO. I dont blame him if that has something to do for his struggles on the road during the playoffs

[xcoriate]

It was Tony Parkers fault

[aaronstampler]

I think it's kind of sad that Manu's being taken for granted now, to the point of it being a lose/lose situation. When he doesn't play well people jump on him, and when he does play well, people say, "Well he's supposed to."

The guy is a good player, even an all-star player, but I missed the memo that declared him the next Michael Jordan. It's simply not in his personality to jack up 20 or 25 shots a game when he's struggling. Hell, he hardly ever takes more than 15 shots even when he's going well. If he senses he's having a bad night, he either just passes the ball or stops playing altogether so maybe somebody else can do well. Ultimately, he cares about the team.

If Pop ever made a point in declaring from next season forward, that Manu is going to get 15-18 shots every game, regardless of how he's playing, his numbers would look a lot better on the surface, and some people here would be happier, but it wouldn't really make him a better player- just a more easily noticable one.

[Kori Ellis]

Okay Mr. Melodramatic.

No one is jumping on him. Just noting a trend in a bad road playoff games and wondering if it's really a trend or a fluke.

The difference from home to road is huge.


In Manu's last five playoff road games, he's averaging 8.9 points per game on 34.1% shooting from the field. In has last five home games, he's averaging 22.4 points per game on 52.7% shooting from the floor.

But I think it's such a small sample size (five games), it's likely a fluke.

[polandprzem]

plus the detroit series he got hit and was not able to play on 'his' level.

Game six is tommorow

[Kori Ellis]

plus the detroit series he got hit and was not able to play on 'his' level.



:wtf

Then how did he play so well in the home games?

[boutons_]

He got hit in thigh the very first play of the Game3.
That didn't effect retroactively how he played in Games1 and 2.

Which Spurs were statistically superior in the Finals Games3,4,5? Tim had pretty good stats in Game5, but re-watching the 2nd half, Robert's Big Shot made us forget a lot of ugliness in Tim's game5, including his failure not to dunk his missed put-back at the end of regulation.

[whottt]

:stirpot:

[orhe]

lol @ the finals MVP debate argument

[Amuseddaysleeper]

wasn't tim like a horrible 10-27 from the floor in game 7??

he had a great 3rd qtr to redeem himself and had some timely passes in the 4th but it was manu's pass to horry in game 5, his play making ability that got us over the hump. I don't see how it could even have been argued that manu didn't deserve the finals mvp last year.

[orhe]

yeah... in all the games we actually won manu was the shit... while duncan almost choked game 5 away

[Kori Ellis]

People aren't understanding the point of the thread :lol

[orhe]

i actually understand... i just want to put that in

[Kori Ellis]

Anyway, I think Manu will have a huge game on Friday. I think it will be his best game of the series.

[MI21]

Interesting timvp.

For comparison, here are the stats of the other 2 members of the "Big 3" in those same 5 games. Without looking at the stats, I would think they aren't going to be to much greater than Manu's, because the whole team has struggled the last 5 road games.

Tim Duncan

PPG - 20.4
FG% - 45.9%
FT% - 57.8%
RPG - 13.0
APG - 2.4

Tony Parker

PPG - 16.2
FG% - 45.4%
FT% - 68.7%
RPG - 2.0
APG - 3.6

Tim has been decent, considering some of the opposition and injuries. 20/13 is never bad. Tony has been very average, not doing anything but scoring at a reasonable FG%.

The Spurs starting guards must lift there game to improve that 1-4 record over the last 5 road playoff games.

[Bruno]

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

It's a fluke.

Now look at this 10 games :

GM3 @ Detroit : 7 pts (FG : 2/6) : Bad game, Manu was slighty injured and Detroit was focused on Manu after his 2 great games at SA.
GM4 @ Detroit : 12 pts (FG : 4/9) : Not a good dame, I don't know if it's because of his injury but it was a blowout and Spurs have been outplayed
GM5 @ Detroit : 15 pts (FG : 5/16) : Good game by Manu, maybe his injury bothered him less. His shoot was off (0/4 form downtown) but 6 rebounds and 9 assists is damn good.
GM6 vs Detroit : 21 pts (FG : 7/17) : Good game even if his shoot was off.
GM7 vs Detroit : 23 pts (FG : 8/13) : Great game

GM1 vs Sacramento : 10 pts (FG : 5/10) : Not a great game by Manu at home, Artest has given him some troubles.
GM2 vs Sacramento : 32 pts (FG : 10/20) : Great game by Manu but Artest was out.
GM3 @ Sacramento : 8 pts (FG : 3/9) : Manu owned by Artest
GM4 @ Sacramento : 3 pts (FG : 1/4) : Manu owned by his turnover and by Artest.
GM5 vs Sacramento : 27 pts (FG : 9/14) : Great game despite Artest.

What's the point of this summary ?
It's to prove that the difference between home games and road games depend on facts that aren't related with that.
On his 5 games on the road, Manu has played two with a injury, one were his shoot was off, one were Artest owned him and one were he wasn't mentaly ready.
On his 5 games at home, Manu has been healthy for all of them and has played one without a strong defense (Piston defense or Artest).


Excuses or reasons ?

Reasons for me.
First you have notice that it's not true during the regular season. Even if Playoff aren't regular season, it's still a clue.
Second, 10 games isn't enough to determine a trend.
Third, Now Just look at the 3 first round of the 2005 playoff campaign. It's 16 games, 8 at home and 8 on the road :
Manu on the road : 20.9pts, 46.2% FG
Manu at home : 22.6pts, 56.7% FG
10% FG can seem to be a lot but 46.2% isn't bad and stats on 8 games can fluctuate a lot with one or two bad/good shooting game. It's logical too for a player to have better stats @ home than on the road.

To conclude, don't forget that Manu has played some years with a top team in Europe. An arena in Greece or Turkey is way more hostile than a nba arena (even Auburn Hill and ARCO one's).

[ShoogarBear]

It was Tony Parkers fault

If TP had these road-home splits, people would be saying he's mentally weak and spending too much time with Eva and we should bench him on the road and start Beno.

[Rick Von Braun]

In Manu's last five playoff road games, he's averaging 8.9 points per game on 34.1% shooting from the field. In has last five home games, he's averaging 22.4 points per game on 52.7% shooting from the floor.

In the regular season, Manu was actually better on the road than at home. 15.7 points on 48.2% shooting from the field (47.3% from beyond the arc) on the road compared to 14.5 points per game on 44.2% shooting from the field (28.6% from beyond the arc) at home.

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

Your sample size is very small. You simply took the 3 Pistons games from 1 year ago, where the Spurs lost badly in 2 of them and the 2 losses against Sacto this year. Except for game 5 vs the Pistons where he played well, all the other games he had poor performances.

Consider all performances of last year's playoffs, and compare home and road. You may get a different result and be surprised. :drunk

[polandprzem]

:wtf

Then how did he play so well in the home games?

When you get the injury it is not for the rest of your life.

Bruno posted it better.

[Nikos]

To be fair I think Ginobili was solid in Game 5 of the finals. He had 9 assists if I remember correctly and had a very nice first half with Tony to help set the tone for the game. (Remember when Horry missed 3 straight open layups -- yes open).

But I agree he was bad in Game 3 and 4, and he probably is weaker on the road. I do remember him doing well on the road vs Denver however, and also Phoenix. But against Seattle he wasn't too good on the road.

It probably isn't a fluke. He likely is a consistently better player at home. But it all depends how you look at it. Teams in general are better at home, so on average the opposition is going to be weaker. Maybe it is a fluke that Manu takes such a huge drop, maybe not. But it does seem like he has more energy in SA, and it seems like he makes more of the little plays. But I think he is capable of doing real well on the road from time to time.

[ShoogarBear]

In general ALL players are worse on the road than at home. Otherwise, team records at home wouldn't be so much better, right?

So the real question, for any player, is whether the dropoff on the road is more significant for them than it is for the average player. This is very tough to prove, but my gestalt is that Manu isn't a road sissy.

[boutons_]

Boxscores-Lineups(Jun 19 2005 10:16PM)

FINALS (Game 5)

SAN ANTONIO (96)

fg ft rb
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
B Bowen 44 4-8 0-0 0-5 3 4 10
T Duncan 48 11-24 4-11 8-19 2 3 26
N Mohammed 26 3-4 0-0 1-3 0 3 6
E Ginobili 44 5-16 5-5 3-6 9 4 15
T Parker 45 7-15 0-0 1-2 3 4 14
B Barry 22 1-3 0-0 1-2 0 3 3
R Horry 32 7-12 2-3 5-7 2 5 21
D Brown 4 0-0 1-2 0-1 1 0 1

__________________________________________________ ___
TOTALS 265 38-82 12-21 19-45 20 26 96


WTF is wrong with 15-9, including the game winning AST to Robert?

This thread sucks. http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[nkdlunch]

Players play better at home? NOOOO really??? :rolleyes

[Athenea]

:wtf

Then how did he play so well in the home games?
He got injured in min 1 of Game 3 @Det. Then came Game 4 @Detroit also. Game 5 he was still hurting but slowly improving. Game 6 he played too sloppy and made costly plays.
Game 7, he did great.
Can someone pliz tell me why choose such a small sample?

[vanvannen]

Because it helped his cause.

[Athenea]

This is very tough to prove, but my gestalt is that Manu isn't a road sissy.
And I think that's the point MR TimVP was trying to prove :rolleyes .

[MI21]

I think people are completely missing the point of this thread. timvp is just pointing out this rather weird set of games and questioning why.

I don't think he is having a go at Manu, god forbid if he was.

[Spurologist]

In Manu's last five playoff road games, he's averaging 8.9 points per game on 34.1% shooting from the field. In has last five home games, he's averaging 22.4 points per game on 52.7% shooting from the floor.

In the regular season, Manu was actually better on the road than at home. 15.7 points on 48.2% shooting from the field (47.3% from beyond the arc) on the road compared to 14.5 points per game on 44.2% shooting from the field (28.6% from beyond the arc) at home.

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

Things change. Case and point: Manu GAME 6

[Jimcs50]

I think Manu will have a great road game at Arco and Bonzi will have his worst game. Just a feeling I have...no real reason for this statement.

[ShoogarBear]

no real reason for this statement.

Unlike your usual careful research and precision logic? :fro

[1Parker1]

Unlike your usual careful research and precision logic? :fro

:lol Quick, Where's that thread with you two debating the Las Vegas odds of the Spurs winning it all vs the Pistons?

[2centsworth]

Tim shot 10-30 in Game 7 last year and I thought he played great. sometimes FG% doesn't tell the whole story.

Nevertheless, Manu's struggles have been a combo of things.

1. He took a knee in game 3 against detroit which I thought slowed him down.
2. The team hasn't played well in most of those games.
3. Artest shut him down in game 3 of this series and game 4 it was in his head.

If the team plays well in game 6 then I think Manu will too. Manu doesn't have Lebron James, Kobe talent to put a team on his back on the road. He can do it at home because of the energy of the crowd. On the road he needs help.

[boutons_]

Can the Spurs win this elimination game on the road?

A huge test of Spurs' road warrior-ness extending to the playoffs.

As the stakes get higher, I get more tense.

I don't understand why a guy who was second in voting for Finals MVP is being questioned? Some people must be really bored between games.

[Spurminator]

Wasn't Manu injured in Game 2 or 3 last year? I thought I remembered that affecting his movement for a portion of that series.

Anyway, what happens when you expand your sample to include the other road Playoff games last year?

[boutons_]

Manu got kneed just above the knee, IIRC, of first play of Game3, which resulted in a Spurs' TO and Pistons starting the game with a fastbreak score, foreshadowing two disastrous games for the Spurs.

[NCaliSpurs]

Question.

Why does Manu get the free pass with the "injury" card?

Besides, Manu is awesome when it counts, regardless of home or road, or if he is having a bad or good game to that point.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Question.

Why does Manu get the free pass with the "injury" card?

Besides, Manu is awesome when it counts, regardless of home or road, or if he is having a bad or good game to that point.
injury card?? what, you don't think a player can be injured??

[Kori Ellis]

And I think that's the point MR TimVP was trying to prove :rolleyes .

timvp thinks Manu is God, so I don't think that's the point.

But thanks for your bitchy rolling of your eyes, like always.

[1Parker1]

I thought Timvp thinks NVE is God :oops

[Kori Ellis]

I think people are completely missing the point of this thread. timvp is just pointing out this rather weird set of games and questioning why.

I don't think he is having a go at Manu, god forbid if he was.

Exactly.
Instead of getting all freaked out thinking someone actually criticized Manu, MI21 actually got the point of the thread.

[Kori Ellis]

I thought Timvp thinks NVE is God :oops

No. He just thinks he's better than Beno.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Some people forgot about some important facts.

- Manu played with an injury in games 3 & 4 of last year's Finals (he didn't complain about it). Also, the Pistons defense focused on him after he killed them in the first two games. The rest of the Spurs didn't take advantage of that, the whole team played awful in those two games. Remember Tim Duncan going into the bench with a helpless face when the Spurs were being blown out?

- His game 5 wasn't great, but it was an all-around good game, including the assist to Horry's dagger. He served as bait, which Rasheed gladly ate.

- He was very good in the rest of those playoffs on the road. He scored over the Nuggets, Sonics (both tried to stop him going "physical" -or thuggish-, we know the result of that), and the Suns. Not only he played great, he was clutch. Remember the assist to Duncan in Game 6 of the Sonics series? The entire Sonics roster collapsed on him since he was owning them so bad. Remember the behind-the-back-to-the-right-reverse-layup against the Suns? The pick'n'pop with Duncan?

- He screwed up in game 3 of this current Sacto series, and vanished -as the whole team did- in game 4. It could be said that he didn't try to force things when he shouldn't, but I'm not that much of a Manu homer.

- On the road, referees call many less fouls for the road team (Unless your name is Bavetta and the home team is the Spurs). When he attacks the basket, opponents are allowed to be more physical on him, and many times when he tries to draw a foul, the refs don't blow the whistle.

- Look at his 2003 and 2004 stats on the road: they were pretty solid for his role back then. Sixth Man in his rookie season, "Spark off the bench/Energizer/Unpredictable slasher" in his sophmore year.

timvp, I consider you a person who knows his basketball, but your recent posts about Manu smell like Sequ or ducks stuff.

Cheers.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

If anything, that should show how important Manu is to the Spurs. If he has a bad game, it will be very difficult for the Spurs to win. Of course, that doesn't happen too often as we have seen in the last 4 years.

[Kori Ellis]

timvp, I consider you a person who knows his basketball, but your recent posts about Manu smell like Sequ or ducks stuff.

Cheers.


:lol

Why? Because he acknowledge that it was mentally weak to be upset about a Game 3 turnover during Game 4? And he noticed that he has shot 20% less on the road than at home in recent playoff games?

timvp loves Manu. He thinks he's a playoff God.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

:lol

Why? Because he acknowledge that it was mentally weak to be upset about a Game 3 turnover during Game 4? And he noticed that he has shot 20% less on the road than at home in recent playoff games?

timvp loves Manu. He thinks he's a playoff God.

Is not just this thread. I don't know, I might be wrong, I'm posting thousands miles away and never talked to him, it's just a feeling.

Maybe if Manu was black, wore a headband and flexed his muscles after every made shot would you appreciate him more? :lol

Just kidding :p

[????????]

People are automatically saying fluke by thinking this only means the two games in Arco this season.

This includes the three games in Detroit in the Finals last year.

I know a lot of people thought Manu deserved to win MVP of the Finals, but he sucked in the road games.
Who didn't suck in the last 5 road games? TD had a good one in Arco and a decent one in Det. Besides, Manu has had to go against Artest this year and against the Det. defense (who I have heard are decent) in the last 5 road games. Not like he was getting to shred the Mavericks or anything.

Besides, the Spurs only win road games when they have to. Otherwise they just pack it up and wait to be back home.

[tlongII]

In Manu's last five playoff road games, he's averaging 8.9 points per game on 34.1% shooting from the field. In has last five home games, he's averaging 22.4 points per game on 52.7% shooting from the floor.

In the regular season, Manu was actually better on the road than at home. 15.7 points on 48.2% shooting from the field (47.3% from beyond the arc) on the road compared to 14.5 points per game on 44.2% shooting from the field (28.6% from beyond the arc) at home.

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

Home court officiating.

[ShoogarBear]

Let this be a lesson unto you, infidelvp. Never question, only praise.

One Who Has Learned.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

timvp, I consider you a person who knows his basketball, but your recent posts about Manu smell like Sequ or ducks stuff.

Cheers.
you do know it's common for people to have multiple personalities on these forums...:lol

But whatever, this thread is kinda dumb because Road Games were independent from other variables from these individual series, which was one: Manu's MENTAL Breakdown in Game 4. He got over it by Game 5, thank god. And two, the thigh injury in game 3 of the Finals...I saw the exact thing happen to Billups in this year's regular season game against the Lakers. He shot like 2 of 10 FG and was pretty much passive the whole game. The commentators remarked on it being his hit in the thigh putting him out of rhythm...

And as others have mentioned the sample's pretty small so what's the point of singling out Manu....The stats that are glaring is in those two series--Pistons, and Kings and excluding game 1 of this one--when Manu does good, they get the win. When Manu does bad, the game is in a loss collumn. Not taking away from Tim the Rock, and Tony's game, but when Tim and Tony have good games, it's doesn't discriminate between Wins and Losses.
I really think this is more telling that when Manu does good in these playoff's series's, he sets the tone/spark and the rest of the Spurs follow. Going back to the first minutes of game 1, it ends up being included.

Pop himself said, Manu is the Key, and that game 4 loss on Sunday was hard to swallow. The difference maker should know his role.

[timvp]

There are some hypersensitive people in this thread. I didn't even give an opinion in the opening post. It was just the splits from his last five at home and his last five on the road.

From that, I don't know how Argentina jumped down my throat. I've been Manu's biggest supporter all season and now all of sudden I'm a hater. Yeah, okay.

Manu admitted that he took himself out of Game 4 because he was still hung up on his turnover to lose Game 3. Any other player on this team would be ripped mercilessly for taking himself out of an important playoff game but of course Saint Manu can't even be questioned.

I speak the good and the bad. I'm not going to sugar coat the bad of Manu just like I don't sugar coat the bad of anyone else on this team. Argentina needs to Sac up and stop getting pissy just because someone isn't showering the Saint with accolades.

Manu is awesome and San Antonio is lucky to have him but he isn't without fault, no matter what your blue and white colored glasses may reveal to you.

[timvp]

timvp, I consider you a person who knows his basketball, but your recent posts about Manu smell like Sequ or ducks stuff.

Cheers.


In the last week:


I'll give it to Artest, he's a hell of a defender. I don't think Bowen could guard Manu as well as Artest can.

That said, knowing Manu he'll come out like MJ

:smokin



Playing like MJ = Playing Smart.

Manu responds in big games.


Manu is slowly morphing into a modern day Avery Johnson. This team needs that leader who will put the burden of winning on his shoulders and won't back down from pressure.

Manu looks more and more like that guy.

Yeah, timvp is such a hater.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

There are some hypersensitive people in this thread. I didn't even give an opinion in the opening post. It was just the splits from his last five at home and his last five on the road.

From that, I don't know how Argentina jumped down my throat. I've been Manu's biggest supporter all season and now all of sudden I'm a hater. Yeah, okay.

Manu admitted that he took himself out of Game 4 because he was still hung up on his turnover to lose Game 3. Any other player on this team would be ripped mercilessly for taking himself out of an important playoff game but of course Saint Manu can't even be questioned.

I speak the good and the bad. I'm not going to sugar coat the bad of Manu just like I don't sugar coat the bad of anyone else on this team. Argentina needs to Sac up and stop getting pissy just because someone isn't showering the Saint with accolades.

Manu is awesome and San Antonio is lucky to have him but he isn't without fault, no matter what your blue and white colored glasses may reveal to you.
:lol C'mon, you know how posts work...eventually you end up having people responding to other people that tangent off of what the Original post was pointing out...People were talking bout Manu's Final MVP contention in the middle. But yeah, you addressed a small sample of road games. Artest, the TO, the Injury, The Pistons Shut Down, all had something to do with those percentages.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

In the last week:







Yeah, timvp is such a hater.
you speak in third person??

Not another one. :rolleyes

[NCaliSpurs]

injury card?? what, you don't think a player can be injured??


Sure, but some people are too apt to dismiss some player's injuries, while too eager to accept another player's injuries as the only reason why they didn't attain Jordan-like greatness on any given game.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Sure, but some people are too apt to dismiss some player's injuries, while too eager to accept another player's injuries as the only reason why they didn't attain Jordan-like greatness on any given game.
Billups got hit in the thigh early in the Lakers game this season, which was real similar to Manu in Game 3.

..I saw the exact thing happen to Billups in this year's regular season game against the Lakers. He shot like 2 of 10 FG and was pretty much passive the whole game. The commentators remarked on it being his hit in the thigh putting him out of rhythm...


Also every player's different. Manu was noticeably off and passive after getting knee'd ...it sounds like "excuses, excuses" from word of mouth, but these are the type of things you just have to see and not hear.

You're asking a Jordan injury doesn't hamper? But Jordan's Jordan and Manu's Manu. Remember Jordan's Flu game, you had to see it to see him thrive off it. Remember Tim's not so glorified Flu Game??? you had to see that to understand it was funny..Wade's had injuries in-game and bounced back to bear the load cuz it's his role. So each injury affects the player's differently. It's not so much the Injury Card/pass. you could tell it took Manu out of his game. Just like Duncan on B2B games PF starts affecting him and you could see it in his lift and lack of movement.

Besides, who says we fans can't use it as an excuse. Only the one's playing suck it up and ignore the injury as the reason.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Manu gets good ref treatment at home, which encourages him to drive that lane relentlessly, which gives him better treatment, etc etc

He gets shit on by the refs on the road. I've never seen refs treat a spur like night and day like that ever.

I'm not bitching, just saying what I see.

[RonMexico]

There are some hypersensitive people in this thread. I didn't even give an opinion in the opening post. It was just the splits from his last five at home and his last five on the road.

From that, I don't know how Argentina jumped down my throat. I've been Manu's biggest supporter all season and now all of sudden I'm a hater. Yeah, okay.

Manu admitted that he took himself out of Game 4 because he was still hung up on his turnover to lose Game 3. Any other player on this team would be ripped mercilessly for taking himself out of an important playoff game but of course Saint Manu can't even be questioned.

I speak the good and the bad. I'm not going to sugar coat the bad of Manu just like I don't sugar coat the bad of anyone else on this team. Argentina needs to Sac up and stop getting pissy just because someone isn't showering the Saint with accolades.

Manu is awesome and San Antonio is lucky to have him but he isn't without fault, no matter what your blue and white colored glasses may reveal to you.


Dude, people have a very short memory on this board... whether it's a poster or a player, the mentality is "what have you done for me lately?" and it gets on my nerves sometimes.... Detroit fans are often the worst, too - acting like everyone is so much more physical in these playoffs than ever before while completely ignoring the thugs on the Detroit teams of the late 80s and early 90s... somtimes, you can't ever win... I respect that you didn't even make an opinion in the first thread and just put up objective stats to start a discussion - why people are prompted to rip into you is beyond me, but I guess they're just a little immature and sensitive...

[SequSpur]

timvp doesn't have the skills to be a sequ.

[Athenea]

timvp thinks Manu is God, so I don't think that's the point.

But thanks for your bitchy rolling of your eyes, like always.
YW
At least u didn't pull the nationality card.

[Athenea]

POffs 2005 11 games


* PLAYER G# MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OR DR TR A PF ST TO B-S PTS RES
Den
M. Ginobili G3 31 10-21 2-4 10-13 1 8 9 3 4 0 1 1 32 W
M. Ginobili G4 37 5-13 2-4 12-16 0 4 4 6 4 0 1 2 24 W
Sea
M. Ginobili G3 30 5-11 2-3 6-10 2 4 6 2 4 1 3 0 18 L
M. Ginobili G4 25 4-10 1-2 6-8 3 4 7 2 4 1 3 0 15 L
M. Ginobili G6 36 3-6 1-3 6-10 0 6 6 7 3 2 5 0 13 W
Phoe
M. Ginobili G1 37 5-10 1-2 9-13 0 6 6 5 3 1 2 0 20 W
M. Ginobili G2 38 10-18 3-7 3-5 0 4 4 4 2 1 2 0 26 W
M. Ginobili G5 35 6-15 2-6 5-6 0 8 8 6 1 3 4 0 19 W
Det
* M. Ginobili G3 29 2-6 1-3 2-2 0 4 4 0 4 0 6 0 7 L
M. Ginobili G4 32 4-9 1-5 3-4 0 4 4 3 3 1 2 1 12 L
M. Ginobili G6 44 5-16 0-4 5-5 3 3 6 9 4 1 2 0 15 W
TOTALS # 374 61-135 18-47 67-95 9 55 64 47 36 11 31 4 201 7-11
TOTAL % 34,0 44% 37% 73% 0,8 5,0 5,8 4,3 3,3 1,0 2,8 0,4 18,3 64%

[ducks]

COME ON MANU NO POINTS 3 minutes left in first half game 6 on road
BRING IT

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

3 rebs, 3 assists, 1 steal, 2 points, and he barely touched the ball...

[ducks]

jim akseed if hewas playing
he had 2 steals

the steals are nice I miss them easy baskets for spurs

hopefully that late basket will get him going spurs need his scoring

[MaNuMaNiAc]

jim akseed if hewas playing
he had 2 steals

the steals are nice I miss them easy baskets for spurs

hopefully that late basket will get him going spurs need his scoring
you trying to rime now ducks? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[ducks]

it is half time
I WANT THE GAME TO GET STARTED
I DO NOT WANT TP's leg to get stiff

[timvp]

Got damn timvp and his Manu hating ways. How dare he think there is a correlation between home and road and how Manu plays.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

This thread is prime example #1 of the problem with some in the "Churches."

Even when somebody has praised Manu to no end before, there's one thread of statistical analysis and timvp's a hater.

I shudder to think of the War that would have started had Manu had a sub-par second half and anybody would have mentioned it. Now, this isn't to say that all in the respective churches have their blinders on, because they don't.

Blind love doesn't work in relationships and it sure as hell doesn't work in basketball.

Now, with that all being said...

Come join the Synagogue of Sean (Marks)!

We're only three members strong right now, but if Sean gets activated, this shit is on.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Has anyone actually watched the game?

The offense wasn't run by Manu, as a matter of fact, there were very few plays called for him...jeez... :bang

If you people wanna go and blame Manu for having a solid game, blame it on Pop...

[Sportman]

If you people wanna go and blame Manu for having a solid game, blame it on Pop...

Yes i agree with this statement, but we have to say too, that this time the pop´s strategy didnt fail and worked out prefectly. Tony deserved to have the ball because all the good things were born from his hands.

[ducks]

pop calls more plays for manu in 4 last game was more of a blowout so he did not
he did call some plays for him
some posters said they thought he was more passive last night
but parker was out of his mind last night but manu did step up in second half
which I am thankful




and the church of manu can thank pop for telling parker to shot 25 times

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

pop calls more plays for manu in 4 last game was more of a blowout so he did not
he did call some plays for him
some posters said they thought he was more passive last night
but parker was out of his mind last night but manu did step up in second half
which I am thankful




and the church of manu can thank pop for telling parker to shot 25 times

I think Manu just heated up in the third quarter pretty much, I don't know about passive, you're right about the "blowout" scenario for Manu and also Tim. The box scores say little about their contribution. Manu and Tim are the kind of guys that are so unselfish, that if they notice a teammate's hot, they'll do what they can without the ball, and defer to them and not even give a second thought to getting their "share" and take Pop's decisions. That's why you always see varying "top performers" why do you think Nazr and Barry even had their top moments during the regular season?

Parker was just having their way with the Kings, and the way he was limping, man that guys got heart.

[ShoogarBear]

I thought Manu was fine last night. He picked his spots and didn't try to do things that weren't needed.

His big games are still to come.

[boutons_]

Pop gave the ball to Manu a lot to start the 3rd qtr, and Manu got the run going that killed the Kings and closed out the series.

[2centsworth]

Up until the past 6 road games Manu has been awesome has been awesome on the road. of the 6 games, 1st 2 games he was injured, 3rd game he played well, games 4-6 Artest was in his head.

[smeagol]

timvp's sample is too small. Look at Athenea's last post. With a larger sample Manu's number's look much better.

[timvp]

Props to Manu for proving the stats wrong.

:smokin

[ducks]

he better prove his stats wrong again

[Bruno]

;)

[MaNuMaNiAc]

he better prove his stats wrong again
ahem...

[timvp]

Manu is the freaking man. I love that guy. He's 100% heart and determination.

His game tonight was one of his best.

[Jimcs50]

Manu is the freaking man. I love that guy. He's 100% heart and determination.

His game tonight was one of his best.


:smokin


The assist to TP in last 3 mins, was the best ever....how did he trust TP to shoot the 18 footer from the baseline???? He seems to make the right decisions every time....the man is amazing.

[smeagol]

26.7 pts, 5.7 boards in the last three games @ Dallas.

Not bad!

[Jimcs50]

26.7 pts, 5.7 boards in the last three games @ Dallas.

Not bad!


Seriously???? That is special. :smokin

[SA210]

Manu = 2007 Finals MVP