Did Bryant Quit on His Team?

[Reggie Miller]

Or is Phil Jackson to blame?

I am interested in everyone's opinion on this one.

My take: If I'm Phil Jackson, I call for a TO and tell Kobe "shoot the ball, or I'm benching your a$$." I only blame Jackson because he knows that Bryant is arrogant enough to pull a stunt like that (1 point on 3 shots in 2nd half).

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Jackson in the press conference was asking the reporters, "Did Kobe shoot in the 2nd half? Oh one point...on the technical yeah..."

I think Jackson was aware.. Don't know why he didn't act on it. Maybe cuz he doesn't really coach Kobe. Just the other 4 guys.

[jochhejaam]

Down 15 at half I'm wondering if Kobe was looking for the green light to take over the game and Jackson insisted on doing it via team play. Kobe's upset and takes it to the extreme. That's my thought.

Probably should have cut him loose but that's hindsight for ya.

[mavsfan1000]

Kobe is uncoachable so why should Phil try?

[Obstructed_View]

Phil is getting 10 mil per year and is banging http://espn.starwave.com/media/nba/2003/0725/photo/r_jbuss_tpi.jpg so why try?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'm just glad I don't have to root behind this guy. I feel sorry for the Laker fans. I was pulling for the Suns yesterday, but I at least wanted Kobe to lead his team to the challenge. Show a losing effort. Instead for whatever reason, 3 shots? There's no other way you can slice it other than Kobe quitting, no matter how hard Kobe's camp, and articles creatively try to justify it.

[jochhejaam]

Here's an excerpt from an article by Bill Plaschke, sportswriter for the L.A.Times.

...After scoring 23 of the Lakers 45 first-half points on good shooting — only to see his team still trailing by 15 — Bryant shut it down.

He took only three second-half shots, missing all of them. He went to the free-throw line only once.

During a time when you might think he would be gunning to get the Lakers back into the game, he scored one second-half point.

It was selfish, it was silly. But it didn't cost the Lakers the game and it made a much bigger point.

For the Lakers to continue winning with the team style of play that worked so well earlier in the series, Bryant needs more team.

He needs players whose offensive struggles won't hurt their defensive focus.

"Balancing everything off our offense has hurt us all year," Odom said.

He needs players who won't be afraid to make the big play in the final minutes.

"When you get back into these types of games, everybody has to get into a rhythm," Bryant said.

Steve Nash was surprised.

"I don't know what to expect from him," he said of Bryant.

"Sometimes it's a little strange."

Jackson, who agrees with Bryant, was not surprised.

"We wanted to get back in the ballgame, we were running stuff through other guys," he said, adding, "Kobe just sat on that game plan." ...

[Obstructed_View]

Caron Butler and a Rookie with college experience might have been nice...

[1Parker1]

Kobe didn't quit on his team, It was a useless fight. Down 20-25 points, every time he did hit a 3 pointer or a jumper in the first half, Suns hit a counter-shot at the other end. There was 0 team defense. Kobe could have scored 80...but if they can't stop the Mavs at the other end, what would have been the point? See Game 6, where he scored 50 and they still lost.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Kobe didn't quit on his team, It was a useless fight. Down 20-25 points, every time he did hit a 3 pointer or a jumper in the first half, Suns hit a counter-shot at the other end. There was 0 team defense. Kobe could have scored 80...but if they can't stop the Mavs at the other end, what would have been the point? See Game 6, where he scored 50 and they still lost.
Kobe kept it within 12-15. They have a chance to win if Kobe shoots less, not if Kobe doesn't shoot at all! Kobe just did nothing. No rebounds, no trying to create shots for his team, no defense. He just gave up and camped out behind the three point line and passed out to prove a point that his teammates can't do anything without him. It's game 7. Take 10 shots in the half at least. Anything! If three shots isn't giving up, then I don't know what is.

I understand packing it in at the beginning of the 4th. But you don't give up after half-time! Even if it's leading your team in a losing effort.

[Fabbs]

Kobe didn't quit on his team, It was a useless fight. Down 20-25 points, every time he did hit a 3 pointer or a jumper in the first half, Suns hit a counter-shot at the other end. There was 0 team defense. Kobe could have scored 80...but if they can't stop the Mavs at the other end, what would have been the point? See Game 6, where he scored 50 and they still lost.

He took it from 14-16 deficit down to a 9 pt deficit a couple times in the 1st half.
50-40 after he nailed a trey with only 2:14 left.

Sure in the 2nd half he might have only got them from 20-15 behind down to 10-8 behind.
But to just roll up his skirt and pout? That's prima donna selfish lame.
Check yourself out of the game. Give Raja Bell and Phx some bigger fish to fry.

[JMarkJohns]

Kobe showed up Phil. He took Phil's "team play" to the far extreme to show just how worthless his teammates are.

Why would he do this in such a huge game?

Spite. He was simply obeying his thirst.

Kobe was seemingly hellbent on allowing his teammates to miserably fail, thus allowing Jackson's team game to go down with it. He wanted to show how bad things can get when he, one of the greatest offensive forces of the last 25 years is grossly underused.

[Fabbs]

Yes, he did.

Question to me is more

Was Phil afraid to tell Kobe to "fire away, we've got nothing to lose" and if Kobe refused then take his prima donna ass out?

[Fabbs]

Kobe showed up Phil. He took Phil's "team play" to the far extreme to show just how worthless his teammates are.

Why would he do this in such a huge game?

Spite. He was simply obeying his thirst.

Kobe was seemingly hellbent on allowing his teammates to miserably fail, thus allowing Jackson's team game to go down with it. He wanted to show how bad things can get when he, one of the greatest offensive forces of the last 25 years is grossly underused.

So he did but there is nothing virtuous in his action, or rather inaction.
Phil Jackson said in the pregame interview that LA would try to stay within the team game used in their 3 wins but it that did not work Kobe was free to unload. Bryant certainly knew that.

I agree with you it was done purely for spite.
This jackass will never come close to a title on his own unless he changes his attitude. Sure he physically passed the ball to his teamates more this year. But I'll bet to a man they sense he is still all about Kobme. He overdone overblown hugs in earlier wins this season were so phony as he tried to choreograph for the cameras a KobeTeamPlayer look.

[Reggie Miller]

The Conspiracy Theorist in me also wonders whether the Lakers preferred losing to the Suns at Phoenix, rather than getting mauled by the Clippers in their own arena.

[1Parker1]

:lmao You guys are too conspiracy theorists for me. Kobe can't win. He jacks up 30+ shots a la game 6 to score 50, and people say he's a ball hog. He jacks up less shots in the second half of Game 7 to get his teammates involved, and people say he's a quitter.


Yes, obviously, I also think that Kobe should have taken more shots in the 2nd half and just tried to score 60 or something to keep it respectable. But I honestly think he was scared to do so after seeing the results from Game 6. He was playing within the winning style that got them up 3-1. Anyways, the game was a lost cause, Suns couldn't miss a shot and no one on the Lakers team was playing and defense at the other end.

[Darrin]

Or is Phil Jackson to blame?

I am interested in everyone's opinion on this one.

My take: If I'm Phil Jackson, I call for a TO and tell Kobe "shoot the ball, or
I'm benching your a$$." I only blame Jackson because he knows that Bryant is arrogant enough to pull a stunt like that (1 point on 3 shots in 2nd half).

Where's the third choice - none of the above?

The Lakers made a concentrated effort to switch it up on the Suns the entire series. There was a lot made of Bryant "only" averaging 25 ppg, being more of a distributor. What's lost is that from possession to possession, the Suns were kept off balance of what he was going to do with the basketball. I think that's the next step for him - to be able to read the game situation, not necessarily just what the defense is giving him. And to know when it's time to pass or to score. That's what makes guys lethal in this league.

They did the oppostie in game six, and his 50 points resulted in a loss. I believe it was a sound strategy, the Lakers' supporting cast just wasn't strong enough to beat the Suns once Boris Diaw and Shawn Marion got rolling. Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom fell apart down the stretch of this series. If you watch them in game 3 versus game 7, it's like night and day. The Suns better watch out. The Clippers have the talent to execute the gameplan that the Lakers couldn't finish.

To blame Kobe's performance in the second half as a 7th seed on the road with a young team is unfair. There's a lot Bryant should be held responsible for, but that's not it. The Lakers needed to get Brown and Odom on track.

[jochhejaam]

:lmao You guys are too conspiracy theorists for me...

Yes, obviously, I also think that Kobe should have taken more shots in the 2nd half...
You're right 1Parker1 no conspiracy but Kobe averaged almost 13 shots per half for the regular season and almost 11 per half in the playoffs prior to the 2nd half of game 7. So in the most important game of the season for the Lakers, Kobe, who rarely sees a shot he doesn't like, decides to put up only 3 shots in the 2nd half...? IMO Kobe was showing his displeasure of Jackson's adhereing to winning through the "team" on a day when the "team" wasn't coming through.

[Reggie Miller]

I don't blame Kobe for the loss. Like Jochhejaam, I think Bryant chose to make a "statement," rather than playing for a win. To me, that's quitting on your team. Could they have won? Almost certainly not. Am I biased against Kobe? @#$% yes I am. However, it's because of stunts like Game 7. Also, he is the most transparent spin doctor since Mike's handlers in Tyson-Holyfield II. Half of the time he is talking to the media, I keep expecting his nose to grow during the sound bite. I admit it. He "can't win" with me, because I feel like he's always lying to me, even when the truth would better serve him.

I started this thread because I was curious if anyone would defend him. To me, Bryant is in Barry Bonds territory. It's sad when you are relieved that the best player in the league isn't on your favorite team.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

:lmao You guys are too conspiracy theorists for me. Yeah... i think we may go overboard a bit, I doubt the Lakes would take a first round loss over a second round loss regardless of the venue. :lol

but the rest is kind of just what Kobe makes for himself...
But I honestly think he was scared to do so after seeing the results from Game 6. He was playing within the winning style that got them up 3-1. Anyways, the game was a lost cause, Suns couldn't miss a shot and no one on the Lakers team was playing and defense at the other end.

Kobe can use that as a cop-out and Phil, the zen master, can cover for his ass by saying, "he stayed with the game plan" ..But if Kobe has that media-shit in his head, "if I shoot too much, they hate me. If i shoot too little they hate me." shows he's mentally weak. Who cares, that stuff should have no effect on how you play the game. He needs to forget it because you're playing in game 7.

But we know this guy is an attention whore. With his track record, this guy was obviously making a statement for what Phil said or him being pissed at his teammates. You give this guy too much of the benefit of the doubt. This is the guy who tanked a Kings game a couple years ago by refusing to shoot any shots, because Phil said he was shooting too much! This guy is Barry Bondsish, like RM mentioned.

You say there was no point in scoring 1Parker1? You should check out game 7 against Detroit in 1990. Michael Jordan stated he'd "go down swinging" it was a similar scenario, a blowout against a much tougher defense, and his teammates were 11-62 much worse than Kobes, while Pippen and Grant were 4-27 from the floor. Michael kept fightin' scored 31 points, and almost a triple double. http://motorcitybadboys.com/box90eastconffinalsgm7.html

The Piston opponents commented how they respected MJ's performance.

Too many people who watched this game are saying "quitter" they might be mistaken, but they decide what they see. Do you think his "passivity" is gonna bode well to the free-agents who have already been hesitant to sign with the Lakers cuz of Kobe's rep. They know the game better than us, as peer competitors, being the leader and rolling over looks bad to anyone. Kobe may have screwed himself with his primadonna crap, yet again.

[mike detroit]

kobe being kobe.

[Reggie Miller]

Too many people who watched this game are saying "quitter" they might be mistaken, but they decide what they see. Do you think his "passivity" is gonna bode well to the free-agents who have already been hesitant to sign with the Lakers cuz of Kobe's rep. They know the game better than us, as peer competitors, being the leader and rolling over looks bad to anyone. Kobe may have screwed himself with his primadonna crap, yet again.

I have to agree 100% (including the first 3/4 that I didn't quote).

It seems like the Lakers made a major mistake in turning their franchise over to this guy. Hyperbole? MT_boF made the best point so far. The real issue is how other NBA players see this. Shaq may be a primadonna as well, but the general consensus among players seems clear to me. How many free agents will LA be able to sign? So far, that hasn't been the "plan," but I don't see people lining up to play for MLE there, either.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I don't seriously believe that the Lakers threw the series to avoid the Clippers. However, strange thoughts cross your mind when you watch a complete trainwreck like that game. "Inconceivable!" Maybe I don't know what that word means...

[Bloodline666]

Kobe quit, while the rest of his team choked. I think Phil should get on the whole team's case for choking, not just on Kobe's for quitting.

[bonesinaz]

Kobe pouted and then quit in the second half of game seven. Anyone who doesn't see that did not watch the game.

[TDMVPDPOY]

he should be happy, now he can watch the games while fishin

[bonesinaz]

Kobe didn't quit on his team, It was a useless fight. Down 20-25 points, every time he did hit a 3 pointer or a jumper in the first half, Suns hit a counter-shot at the other end. There was 0 team defense. Kobe could have scored 80...but if they can't stop the Mavs at the other end, what would have been the point? See Game 6, where he scored 50 and they still lost.


BS!! Kobe did quit on his team. The lakers never had a chance to win game 7 IMO, but Kobe should have played his guts out anyway. What of honor? What of team pride? He should have gone down shooting. Instead, he pulled this passive-aggressive crap which reinforced my bad opinion of him.

He is as selfish as it comes.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Dude, Kobe IS crazy....anyone catch TNT post game? He actually bitched and whined to Charles Barkley for calling him selfish after game 7, with expletives...not just calling him up like a man, but text messaging him 20 times! :lmao.

[LEONARD]

Absolutely

[lakersfan]

kobe did not quit on his team he just wanted to let other teams go to the finals this year so he didnt quit he just didnt want to show others how the game needs to be played.

[degenerate_gambler]

kobe did not quit on his team he just wanted to let other teams go to the finals this year so he didnt quit he just didnt want to show others how the game needs to be played.


What color is the sky in your world kid?

[MikeSchafer]

kobe did not quit on his team he just wanted to let other teams go to the finals this year so he didnt quit he just didnt want to show others how the game needs to be played.

He didn't quit on his team, but your excuse is stupid. I think Kobe's getting too much of the blame for this. I mean Jesus, he wasn't even the best player in the series for the Lakers. Lamar palyed much better in my opinion was one of the main reasons the Lakers were winning the series. He dissapeared as well, but no one gives him any blame. Yes, Kobe gave up most likely after being down 20+ points, but if you were watching the game, so did everyone else on the Lakers. This being a Spurs forum, where your team emphasizes teamwork, should understand that the Lakers lost as a team and not as Kobe.

[trueD]

Yeah, Kobme quit. He was definitely sending a message, but what was the message is the real question. Post game interview he called out his teammates for not showing up, but like someone else already said--he camped behind the three point line and directed traffic.

Hopefully Phil will take the 10 mil a year from the Maloof's next year and bring Jeannie with him. We got plenty of room in this town for one more princess. :princess