Ben Wallace Radio interview on DPOY

[anthologyct]

Hey Spurs fans .............. even though Ben's not on your team, this is a really great interview to listen to.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/audio/index.ssf?/pistons/audio/audio02.html

I know you guys are a little upset about Bowen not gettin' it ........... but, Ben gives some props to Bruce here.

Its a really good interview .......... worth the few minutes.

[reydawg]

A well deserving choice for the award IMO. That guy changes the game.

[SA210]

Yea, he's got a couple of those awards that he needs to give back to Bruce Bowen.

[reydawg]

Yea, he's got a couple of those awards that he needs to give back to Bruce Bowen.

I guess... If you look at in the aggregate and say "How can Ben Wallace have won 4 of those yet Bowen not have won once??" then that's a reasonable gripe.

But looking at it year-to-year, which of those seasons should Bowen have beaten him out?

Look Bruce is a hell of a defender. We all know it. But so is Ben Wallace. I can entertain the fact that Bruce is deserving of the DPOY award. But so is Wallace.

When somebody says Bruce should have won in 2002 or 2003 (probably the best argument) I can understand that. But you can't look at what Ben's done and say he's not deserving either.

It sucks for Bruce, but I doubt he takes it personally.

[Spurologist]

Anybody have the voting numbers?

[SA210]

Only one can win, and Bruce has been that ONE deserving for a couple of years and he's been robbed year in and year out.

Of course Ben is awesome. But Bruce is the best, and has been for a few years.

Robbery.

[Darrin]

I guess... If you look at in the aggregate and say "How can Ben Wallace have won 4 of those yet Bowen not have won once??" then that's a reasonable gripe.

But looking at it year-to-year, which of those seasons should Bowen have beaten him out?

Look Bruce is a hell of a defender. We all know it. But so is Ben Wallace. I can entertain the fact that Bruce is deserving of the DPOY award. But so is Wallace.

When somebody says Bruce should have won in 2002 or 2003 (probably the best argument) I can understand that. But you can't look at what Ben's done and say he's not deserving either.

It sucks for Bruce, but I doubt he takes it personally.

2001-02 Ben Wallace became the 4th player to ever lead the league in rebounds and blocked shots (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Walton, and Hakeem Olajuwon).

In 2002-03, he averaged more boards (15.4) than any other player since Dennis Rodman in 1996-97, and came a knee injury from becoming the only player to lead the league in blocked shots and rebounds in the same season...twice, not to mention consecutively. As it was, he missed the final six games when Tayshaun Prince hyperextended his knee trying to draw a charge from Tony Parker, and Theo Ratliff tallied 27 blocks in his last 6 games to lose it by 16 blocks.

The argument for Bruce Bowen getting the award was for last year when Big Ben played 74 games, 6 missed due to suspension.

[picnroll]

Just curious. Here's a list of the top 12 playoff scorers to date. Which player would you rather have guarding them, Ben or Bruce? Which would do a much better job? Who would be more valuable?

1 Gilbert Arenas - 34.0
2 LeBron James - 33.7
3 Dirk Nowitzki - 29.0
4 Vince Carter - 28.9
5 Kobe Bryant - 27.9
6 Michael Redd - 27.2
7 Dwyane Wade - 24.7
8 Steve Nash - 23.2
9 Bonzi Wells - 23.2
10 Richard Jefferson - 23.0
11 Andres Nocioni - 22.3
12 Tony Parker - 21.7

[Dunc]

This season in games I've seen, Ben has guarded LeBron, Dirk, Kobe, Dwayne. That covers a pretty good cross-section of those players. I would take Ben. But I'm a homer.

[picnroll]

This season in games I've seen, Ben has guarded LeBron, Dirk, Kobe, Dwayne. That covers a pretty good cross-section of those players. I would take Ben. But I'm a homer.
Rasheed usually takes Dirk as he does Duncan. In fact Rasheed is a better man on defender than Ben. A healthy Wade would eat Ben's lunch full game.

[DarkReign]

DELETE ME.

[DarkReign]

Just curious. Here's a list of the top 12 playoff scorers to date. Which player would you rather have guarding them, Ben or Bruce? Which would do a much better job? Who would be more valuable?

1 Gilbert Arenas - 34.0
2 LeBron James - 33.7
3 Dirk Nowitzki - 29.0
4 Vince Carter - 28.9
5 Kobe Bryant - 27.9
6 Michael Redd - 27.2
7 Dwyane Wade - 24.7
8 Steve Nash - 23.2
9 Bonzi Wells - 23.2
10 Richard Jefferson - 23.0
11 Andres Nocioni - 22.3
12 Tony Parker - 21.7

flawed argument.

Lets see Superman guard

Duncan
Shaq
Brand
CB4
etc
etc

You get my point.

[picnroll]

flawed argument.
flawed choice.

[Dunc]

^ Sorry. Should have said he did spot duty. The March 28th game at the Palace, Dirk pretty well lit Sheed up (don't have the numbers, but it was mid 20s) until Ben took over on Dirk and shut him down. Ben's defense on Dirk essentially was the difference in that game.

[picnroll]

flawed argument.

Lets see Superman guard

Duncan
Shaq
Brand
CB4
etc
etc

You get my point.
I've seen Ben guard Shaq. Rasho does a better job except the flopping. Yes, let's see Ben guard Duncan. I'd much rather have him guarding Duncan than Rasheed. Unfortuantely Pistons guard Duncan with their better man on defender Rasheed.

[Darrin]

Just curious. Here's a list of the top 12 playoff scorers to date. Which player would you rather have guarding them, Ben or Bruce? Which would do a much better job? Who would be more valuable?

1 Gilbert Arenas - 34.0
2 LeBron James - 33.7
3 Dirk Nowitzki - 29.0
4 Vince Carter - 28.9
5 Kobe Bryant - 27.9
6 Michael Redd - 27.2
7 Dwyane Wade - 24.7
8 Steve Nash - 23.2
9 Bonzi Wells - 23.2
10 Richard Jefferson - 23.0
11 Andres Nocioni - 22.3
12 Tony Parker - 21.7


If it's a one-on-one game: Bruce Bowen.

1. Kevin Garnett - 12.7
2. Dwight Howard - 12.5
3. Shawn Marion - 11.8
4. Tim Duncan - 11.0
5. Elton Brand - 10.0
6. Troy Murphy - 10.0
7. Chris Webber - 9.9
8. Chris Kaman - 9.6
9. Jamaal Malgloire - 9.5
10. Antawn Jamison - 9.3
11. Lamar Odom - 9.2
12. Chris Bosh - 9.2

Those are the top rebounders from last season (sans Wallace). Who would you rather keep them off the boards - Ben Wallace or Bruce Bowen?

This is a circular argument because we're comparing apples and oranges. That being said, Big Ben still switches on the pick and roll with success.

The greatest 24 seconds of perimeter defense can be broken down by one offensive rebound, which Big Ben just happened to lead the leaugue in.

[DarkReign]

^better argument.

[picnroll]

Good, give Ben the rebounder of the year award.

[A-Train]

Wallace blocks shots and scowls. Bowen is slight and reserved. The media, without fail, awards the DPOY award to a big who blocks a lot of shots.

[clubalien]

if the Question is who would I rather have Ben wallace or bowen
the answwer is clear I would trade bowen in a secound for ben wallace

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This is a circular argument because we're comparing apples and oranges.

I think that's very true. So many DPOY voters look at Wallace's block and rebound totals and consider him the one worthy of the vote.

There should really be an award for the defensive post player of the year and one for the defensive perimeter player of the year. Bowen will never have the "stats" necessary to impress some of the voters that judge talent based on a boxscore.

[Spurologist]

If it's a one-on-one game: Bruce Bowen.

1. Kevin Garnett - 12.7
2. Dwight Howard - 12.5
3. Shawn Marion - 11.8
4. Tim Duncan - 11.0
5. Elton Brand - 10.0
6. Troy Murphy - 10.0
7. Chris Webber - 9.9
8. Chris Kaman - 9.6
9. Jamaal Malgloire - 9.5
10. Antawn Jamison - 9.3
11. Lamar Odom - 9.2
12. Chris Bosh - 9.2

Those are the top rebounders from last season (sans Wallace). Who would you rather keep them off the boards - Ben Wallace or Bruce Bowen?

This is a circular argument because we're comparing apples and oranges. That being said, Big Ben still switches on the pick and roll with success.

The greatest 24 seconds of perimeter defense can be broken down by one offensive rebound, which Big Ben just happened to lead the leaugue in.

ughghg would you rather shut down an all star two guard that carries a team or give up a couple of more rebounds

[picnroll]

Don't forget the hair. He probably got a couple of dozen votes just for the do.

[leemajors]

let's keep the trophy delegation as it was at the end of last season. we'll give the pistons the dpoy and keep the championship trophy, deal?

[clubalien]

You would think bowen would get some consideration considering he created a new defense called the bear hug

how many defenses has ben came up with?

[DDS4]

Well deserved.

[Darrin]

Good, give Ben the rebounder of the year award.

Then what do we give him for all those blocks and steals? All those altered shots? Forcing players out of bounds off of baseline picks? Denying a cutter through the lane, sealing off defenders on the offensive end to create open shots for his teammates? Drives to the lane that become jumpshots because of his mere presence?

Bruce Bowen was my pick this year. However, don't tear down Ben simply because Bowen lost.

[J.T.]

let's keep the trophy delegation as it was at the end of last season. we'll give the pistons the dpoy and keep the championship trophy, deal?

:tu

[SA210]

DPOY for last couple of years

Bruce Bowen > Ben, Artest

[Darrin]

ughghg would you rather shut an all star two guard that carries a team or give up a couple of more rebounds

I'd rather have the rebounds. Why? Because I watched three good perimeter defenders in Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, and Lindsey Hunter play some great perimeter defense and get burned. Kobe Bryant and Ray Allen are eventually going to get off a shot. With no last line of defense at the rim to stop those players, it's too easy for them to go on runs.

Offense comes and goes. And when the coming goes, I'd rather have someone who creates more opportunities for my team to win. I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace rebound an errant Rip Hamilton shot for a lay-in that was a part of the Pistons 4th quarter comeback in game seven in Miami last season's Eastern Conference Finals.

Like all things in team sports, one does not function without the other. But I've seen one function without the other, and I'd rather see someone who controls the amount of possessions, not one that has to win every possession.

Remember: Robert Horry's back-breaking three in the 2001-02 Western Conference Finals came off of 2 offensive rebounds.

[Spurologist]

I'd rather have the rebounds. Why? Because I watched three good perimeter defenders in Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, and Lindsey Hunter play some great perimeter defense and get burned. Kobe Bryant and Ray Allen are eventually going to get off a shot. With no last line of defense at the rim to stop those players, it's too easy for them to go on runs.

Offense comes and goes. And when the coming goes, I'd rather have someone who creates more opportunities for my team to win. I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace rebound an errant Rip Hamilton shot for a lay-in that was a part of the Pistons 4th quarter comeback in game seven in Miami last season's Eastern Conference Finals.

Like all things in team sports, one does not function without the other. But I've seen one function without the other, and I'd rather see someone who controls the amount of possessions, not one that has to win every possession.

Remember: Robert Horry's back-breaking three in the 2001-02 Western Conference Finals came off of 2 offensive rebounds.

Ben Wallace is a great defender but not one on one. That's why Detroit has Rasheed guard Duncan. If Ben was to be on Duncan, he would get punished inside. Because Ben is on the weak side, he can come help any perimeter defender that gets beat. That and rebouding is all he does.

Bowen on the other hand, is a shut down guy. Any player going against already has it in their heads that they are in for a tough night. Instead focusing on the game, they will try and be superman and try to dominate Bowen. Their whole game is then out of the window because they will never succeed in dominating Bowen. That's why you hear the bitches whining about Bowen in the media. i.e Dirk, Carter, Allen. They are used to scoring against anybody and when they are not succeeding, they resort to bitching.

Bowen is a game changer because he shuts down a player, which changes the game. Ben is simply a help defender. He can also be a game changer if he constantly gets blocks and rebounds, but that doesn't always work. I think many know that Ben's defensive game this year has been worse than previous years. When Dwayne Wade was torching the pistons this season, Ben couldn't do shit because he can't guard Wade. This is where he differs from Bowen. Bowen can guard almost any player. He D on Dirk so far has been textbook.

Remember: If Wade was being guarded by Bowen, he wouldn't have off. Bowen would have put him in lock down mode.

DPOY = Bowen. This year.

[leemajors]

wade can get his against anyone. he played pretty well against bruce this year if i remember correctly. he may have to work that much harder, but he can still get it done. bruce is a great defender, but people can have good games against him.

[SA210]

Ben Wallace is a great defender but not one on one. That's why Detroit has Rasheed guard Duncan. If Ben was to be on Duncan, he would get punished inside. Because Ben is on the weak side, he can come help any perimeter defender that gets beat. That and rebouding is all he does.

Bowen on the other hand, is a shut down guy. Any player going against already has it in their heads that they are in for a tough night. Instead focusing on the game, they will try and be superman and try to dominate Bowen. Their whole game is then out of the window because they will never succeed in dominating Bowen. That's why you hear the bitches whining about Bowen in the media. i.e Dirk, Carter, Allen. They are used to scoring against anybody and when they are not succeeding, they resort to bitching.

Bowen is a game changer because he shuts down a player, which changes the game. Ben is simply a help defender. He can also be a game changer if he constantly gets blocks and rebounds, but that doesn't always work. I think many know that Ben's defensive game this year has been worse than previous years. When Dwayne Wade was torching the pistons this season, Ben couldn't do shit because he can't guard Wade. This is where he differs from Bowen. Bowen can guard almost any player. He D on Dirk so far has been textbook.

Remember: If Wade was being guarded by Bowen, he wouldn't have off. Bowen would have put him in lock down mode.

DPOY = Bowen. This year.

Post of the Day :tu


Bruce was robbed. :madrun

[newbiefan]

did ben get selected for the world/ olympic games??

[picnroll]

What other DPOY has been a help defender rather than a man on shut down defender? Has been for their position on their team, perimeter or post, the second best man on defender?

2004-05 Ben Wallace Detroit
2003-04 Ron Artest Indiana
2002-03 Ben Wallace Detroit
2001-02 Ben Wallace Detroit
2000-01 Dikembe Mutombo Philadelphia-Atlanta
1999-00 Alonzo Mourning Miami
1998-99 Alonzo Mourning Miami
1997-98 Dikembe Mutombo Atlanta
1996-97 Dikembe Mutombo Atlanta
1995-96 Gary Payton Seattle
1994-95 Dikembe Mutombo Denver
1993-94 Hakeem Olajuwon Houston
1992-93 Hakeem Olajuwon Houston
1991-92 David Robinson San Antonio
1990-91 Dennis Rodman Detroit
1989-90 Dennis Rodman Detroit
1988-89 Mark Eaton Utah
1987-88 Michael Jordan Chicago
1986-87 Michael Cooper Los Angeles Lakers
1985-86 Alvin Robertson San Antonio
1984-85 Mark Eaton Utah
1983-84 Sidney Moncrief Milwaukee
1982-83 Sidney Moncrief Milwaukee

[Darrin]

He's just helpside defense and rebounding? Yeah, and all Bruce Bowen does is flop and hack his assignment to death.

I want everyone on here to answer a question: what is the purpose of defense?

[reydawg]

Only one can win, and Bruce has been that ONE deserving for a couple of years and he's been robbed year in and year out.

Of course Ben is awesome. But Bruce is the best, and has been for a few years.

Robbery.

Look, I love Bowen's defense as much as any Spurs fan, but you're really not supporting this point of yours. What makes Bruce the best over Ben? And why was it robbery? Bowen by no means ever had it locked up.

[JamStone]

did ben get selected for the world/ olympic games??


What does this have to do with DPOY award?

In fact, Ben was asked to be interviewed by Colangelo. Ben graciously declined the invititation to be interviewed as he was not interested in being part of the team.

Ben was on the US Team in 2003. He wasn't thrilled about what happened in Indianapolis and has since not been interested in being part of Team USA, just like Tim Duncan does not want to participate.

[leemajors]

He's just helpside defense and rebounding? Yeah, and all Bruce Bowen does is flop and hack his assignment to death.

I want everyone on here to answer a question: what is the purpose of defense?

well, quite simply, to defend.

[jcrod]

If all you're going to argue with is his rebounding and blocks. Well he should dominate, meaning be at least the top two in each catagory. Especially since thats all he does.

He ranked fourth in the NBA in rebounding (11.3), ninth in blocks (2.2)

I wouldn't call that outstanding, would you?

[jcrod]

Nobody is saying he's not worthy, he's in the running every yr. He just shouldn't of won it THIS year. DPOY like MVP is a yr in yr out thing. Bowen has been outstanding yr in an yr out and still yet to win one. Ben has gotten by with his reputation the past couple of ys, which is a great rep, but not deserving this yr.

[JamStone]

Saying Ben is not a good one-on-one defender is false. Ben is very good at holding his own in the post or in a face-up situation against anyone. I've seen Tim Duncan school him, but I've also seen Ben play him straight up and block his shot, not even coming from the weakside, but playing him one-on-one. And, Tim Duncan can school just about anyone, so I'm not sure why getting beat once in a while means you're not one of the best defenders in the league.

I've seen Ben block Shaq plenty of times playing him one-on-one and not coming from the weakside. I've seen Ben all the way out to the three-point line guarding Kevin Garnett and locking him down. I've seen Ben switch on Kobe and Dwyane Wade and do better than any other power forward or center in the league staying with them.

Rasheed might in fact be a better man post defender than Ben Wallace, because Rasheed is taller and longer and can bother taller players like Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett. Ben even stated in his recent interviews something that many people already knew, he's not 6-foot-9. Ben is really only 6-foot-7. How much more amazing are the things he does?

And, the DPOY does not just go to the player who is the best man defender. It's not just about shutting down one guy. Ben is a great help defender. He plays passing lanes and gets steals and deflections and blocks. Ben is great at the pick-and-roll with either hedging high or completely switching onto a perimeter player. Ben alters just as many if not more shots than he blocks. That's not even the tip of the iceberg as Ben is still one of the best rebounders and team defenders in the modern NBA era.

I could see an argument that Bruce is a better man defender than Ben Wallace. I can even agree to a certain extent that Ben isn't even the best man post defender on his team (Rasheed) or best man perimeter defender on his team (Tayshaun or Lindsey). But, it's not singularly man defense that makes Ben so great. He is more than adequate in man defense in the post or on the perimeter. The best? No. But, actually very, very good, and better than some of the people on this thread give him credit for. Ben isn't the best shotblocker in the league either. Alonzo, AK-47, even Theo Ratliff still might be better. But, Ben is a top shot blocker. Ben isn't the best at creating steals. But, he's top ten in the league.

You see, it's the aggregate defense, not just one individual area of defense. He's a great shotblocker and rebounder. As a big man, he's probably the best at getting steals if you consider Kirilenko a perimeter player. He's also one of the best weakside defenders. As a man defender, he may not be the best, but he's still very good. And, so you look at all the different facets of playing defense, then you understand that being great in all of the areas is probably better than being the best at one area but average or below average at the other facets of defense.

Bruce is arguably the best perimeter man defender in the league. That is only one facet of defense. Blocking shots? Rebounding? Altering shots? Weakside help defense? Getting steals? Switching onto a big man who plays on the post?

You'll find you argument for Bruce Bowen less and less compelling when you really think about it.

[SA210]

2006 DPOY

Bowen > Ben

[JamStone]

If all you're going to argue with is his rebounding and blocks. Well he should dominate, meaning be at least the top two in each catagory. Especially since thats all he does.

He ranked fourth in the NBA in rebounding (11.3), ninth in blocks (2.2)

I wouldn't call that outstanding, would you?


Problem is that's not all he does. He's also top ten in steals, almost unheard of for a center, unless you're Hakeem Olajuwan.

He also is one of the best big men in terms of playing the pick-and-roll, one of the basic staples for all NBA team offenses. He is a rare center that can adequately play guards and small forwards for at least one or two possessoins on a switch. Would you let Bruce Bowen switch on Shaquille O'Neal or Yao Ming or Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Eddy Curry without a double team?

Ben deflects passes, gets in passing lanes, clogs the paint, alters shots, force guards to stop penetrating, keeps the basketball from going to an entire side of the court, plays all the way out to the 3-point line.

I would hardly say that rebounding and blocking shots is all he does, and being top ten in both is far from average.

[JamStone]

2006 DPOY

Bowen > Ben


We've read your statements.

We've yet to read your argument.

[jcrod]

Problem is that's not all he does. He's also top ten in steals, almost unheard of for a center, unless you're Hakeem Olajuwan.

He also is one of the best big men in terms of playing the pick-and-roll, one of the basic staples for all NBA team offenses. He is a rare center that can adequately play guards and small forwards for at least one or two possessoins on a switch. Would you let Bruce Bowen switch on Shaquille O'Neal or Yao Ming or Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Eddy Curry without a double team?

Ben deflects passes, gets in passing lanes, clogs the paint, alters shots, force guards to stop penetrating, keeps the basketball from going to an entire side of the court, plays all the way out to the 3-point line.

I would hardly say that rebounding and blocking shots is all he does, and being top ten in both is far from average.


David Robinson was also a great at steals.

You see the theory that he's great because he does things other centers don't do like guard smaller players is.....FLAWED. He's only 6'7, so it's easier for him to guard a PG, SG or SF, unlike TD or Shaq, Yao, etc....He has low center of gravity which makes him move quicker than your TRUE big man.

[Darrin]

well, quite simply, to defend.

Perhaps I'm not being clear. What's the point to it? I mean, scoring is how you win games. All the defense in the world doesn't get a win. The best defense in the world with no offense, in a world of absolute zero, is no more than a tie; an endless game of overtime.

So what is its point?

[Darrin]

David Robinson was also a great at steals.

You see the theory that he's great because he does things other centers don't do like guard smaller players is.....FLAWED. He's only 6'7, so it's easier for him to guard a PG, SG or SF, unlike TD or Shaq, Yao, etc....He has low center of gravity which makes him move quicker than your TRUE big man.

Then the question becomes: why doesn't Kobe Bryant, who is 6"8, or Lebron James, who is 6"9 - why aren't they averaging 12.9 RPG, 2.86 BPG, and 1.34 spg?

I mean, they are way more talented than Big Ben. Why can't they play the center position?

[jcrod]

Then the question becomes: why doesn't Kobe Bryant, who is 6"8, or Lebron James, who is 6"9 - why aren't they averaging 12.9 RPG, 2.86 BPG, and 1.34 spg?


Well because that's not their job, that's Ben only job. Ben plays the C postion which leaves him at the rim 90% of the time. And he avg 11.3 not 12, he avg 2.2 not 2.8.

[jcrod]

Nobody is saying he's not worthy, he's in the running every yr. He just shouldn't of won it THIS year. DPOY like MVP is a yr in yr out thing. Bowen has been outstanding yr in an yr out and still yet to win one. Ben has gotten by with his reputation the past couple of ys, which is a great rep, but not deserving this yr.


Just in case ya Pistons fans missed it the first time.

Just admit Ben shouldn't of won it this yr. The top scorers in the leaque have been bitching about Bowen the past couple of yrs. He shuts the best offensive scorers in the leaque most nights. THE BEST SCORER in the LEAGUE this yr KOBE, said Bowen is the best defender and even gave his congrats to him saying he's a lock to win.

THATS what defense is all about.

[Darrin]

Well because that's not their job, that's Ben only job. Ben plays the C postion which leaves him at the rim 90% of the time. And he avg 11.3 not 12, he avg 2.2 not 2.8.

I was referring to his averages with the Detroit Pistons, including the 2005-06 season. If you think he just at the basket all the time, you're not watching his games.

[Darrin]

THATS what defense is all about.

No, it's actually more basic than that. It about controlling possessions, in essence, the opportunity to score. The only way to get a possession in basketball, sans tips and the beginning of quarters, is if the other team scores. That's the only way to get the ball back.

So two teams shooting the same percentage in the absence of defense, it's more about getting the last possession than anything else.

Defense is creating more offensive opportunities for your team. Why in the game I am watching right now, Ben Wallace has stolen an in-bounds pass that led to a 2-point shot by Rasheed, and grabbed an offensive rebound for a Tayshaun Prince 3-pointer. That's 5 points created by 2 extra possessions. The Pistons are up 18-14.

THAT'S DEFENSE. That's why it's important. Because it controls the opportunities on offense for the opponent while simultaneously getting more opportunities for the team.

[Spurologist]

We've read your statements.

We've yet to read your argument.

There's really no need for one. It's clearly OBVIOUS

[East Coast Babe]

Just as another way of looking at this, fellow Piston fans. Someone reminded me not long ago that San Antonio has only one professional team. The Spurs! They are not like most of us and have a football, or hockey, or baseball team. They just have the one pro basketball team. Some of the rest of us can "hang our hat" on the football team if the basketball team is not going well, or the baseball team, or the hockey team. We're not as confined as Spurs fans are. To me it explains their desire to win so bad! Where I am the basketball team does not do so well, but the football team and the hockey team do!! I don't have to be so desirous that my basketball team wins, because I have another that does. I like the Pistons and I am glad that Ben won DPOY and I can see why he did over Bruce because I think there is more to consider than just numbers when you choose someone. But I can also see how the Spurs fans feel. JMO

[Darrin]

Don't let it be lost that Bruce Bowen was my choice. Just don't rip apart Ben Wallace because he won the award, and Bowen didn't.

[FreshPrince22]

Just curious. Here's a list of the top 12 playoff scorers to date. Which player would you rather have guarding them, Ben or Bruce? Which would do a much better job? Who would be more valuable?

1 Gilbert Arenas - 34.0
2 LeBron James - 33.7
3 Dirk Nowitzki - 29.0
4 Vince Carter - 28.9
5 Kobe Bryant - 27.9
6 Michael Redd - 27.2
7 Dwyane Wade - 24.7
8 Steve Nash - 23.2
9 Bonzi Wells - 23.2
10 Richard Jefferson - 23.0
11 Andres Nocioni - 22.3
12 Tony Parker - 21.7

Ben Wallace guards 5 players at once, so it's a bullshit argument.

[picnroll]

Ben Wallace guards 5 players at once, so it's a bullshit argument.
What the fuck are Prince, Billups, Hamilton and Rasheed doing while Ben is guarding everybody. If Ben was on an average defensive team he wouldn't have the luxury of sniping all the time. Fact is in trying to get by all those other superior defenders a player is vulnerbale to Ben's paoching.

[JamStone]

There's really no need for one. It's clearly OBVIOUS


Clearly obvious to whom?

CLEARLY not the voters.


Clearly obvious to biased, homer Spurs fans? Ummmmm, ok.

[Spurologist]

Clearly obvious to whom?

CLEARLY not the voters.


Clearly obvious to biased, homer Spurs fans? Ummmmm, ok.

Can I have an opinion. Wallace simply hasn't been the same player as last year. Bowen's play has and IMO his effectiveness on D has been superior of Ben's.

[DETROIT_PISTONS]

dont hate
congratulate ....

Big Ben DPOY !! :elephant

[SA210]

We've read your statements.

We've yet to read your argument.

There's really no need for one. It's clearly OBVIOUS
Thanks spurologist, I've been away.

It's clear and everyone should know that

DPOY 2006= Bruce Bowen.

If you don't know that, you don't watch the Spurs.

[DarkReign]

Thanks spurologist, I've been away.

It's clear and everyone should know that

DPOY 2006= Bruce Bowen.

If you don't know that, you don't watch the Spurs.

This message strictly for you, not anyone else...

Bowen lost. Robbed or not, you cant vote, you didnt vote, even if you did vote he still would have lost.

10 years from now no one is going to remember Bowen as 2nd place. 4 DPoYs in 5 years.

Count it.

[Dunc]

Thanks spurologist, I've been away.

It's clear and everyone should know that

DPOY 2006= Bruce Bowen.

If you don't know that, you don't watch the Spurs.

Big letters don't make it so. If you didn't know that Ben is DPOY, you didn't watch him being handed the trophy.

[geerussell]

What the fuck are Prince, Billups, Hamilton and Rasheed doing while Ben is guarding everybody. If Ben was on an average defensive team he wouldn't have the luxury of sniping all the time. Fact is in trying to get by all those other superior defenders a player is vulnerbale to Ben's paoching.

When Ben arrived in the 2000-01 season, the pistons were a teal-clad joke. They had no identity and weren't even an average defensive team. He put his stamp on it with defense before any of those guys got to town. So even though adding guys like Prince and Rasheed took it to another level, he was already getting it done before those guys got to town.

By that same token, I'm sure that a great team/teammates/coach makes Bowen look a lot better than if he were surrounded by the merely average.

[SA210]

This message strictly for you, not anyone else...

Bowen lost. Robbed or not, you cant vote, you didnt vote, even if you did vote he still would have lost.

10 years from now no one is going to remember Bowen as 2nd place. 4 DPoYs in 5 years.

Count it.
Bruce is the real DPOY. He was robbed for all his hard work and determination.
It's a fact. It's like saying Bush is a liar, everyone knows it. No way around it. Simple fact.

[DarkReign]

Bruce is the real DPOY. He was robbed for all his hard work and determination.
It's a fact. It's like saying Bush is a liar, everyone knows it. No way around it. Simple fact.

Good. Simple fact....for you. Thats all. Only you and other SA fans that think like you.

Cruise a national board, dont see everyone crying for Bowen like you.

(this in no way is including Bush. thats a different forum)

[SA210]

Good. Simple fact....for you. Thats all. Only you and other SA fans that think like you.

Cruise a national board, dont see everyone crying for Bowen like you.

(this in no way is including Bush. thats a different forum)
It's Ben's rep, it's that Bruce is in San Antonio. It's ignorance. I see you think Ben deserved it over Bruce.

If Bruce played on one of those other teams , he would have won at least one by now. You can't deny that.

[DarkReign]

It's Ben's rep, it's that Bruce is in San Antonio. It's ignorance. I see you think Ben deserved it over Bruce.

If Bruce played on one of those other teams , he would have won at least one by now. You can't deny that.

My my my, how much you assume. Read much? Or do you just jump into threads posting large, bold letters spamming some inconsequential bullshit repeatedly?

If I had a vote, it would have been given to Bowen.

Im just sick of your whining.

Happy now?

[SA210]

My my my, how much you assume. Read much? Or do you just jump into threads posting large, bold letters spamming some inconsequential bullshit repeatedly?

If I had a vote, it would have been given to Bowen.

Im just sick of your whining.

Happy now?
My my, how much You assume. I was being sarcastic and save the "well, you're not good at it" comments. I know you like to try and put others down.

My point was, if you believe him to be the best this year, it's sad that you're quick to let it go. I'm sick of sellouts like yourself.

[DarkReign]

My my, how much You assume. I was being sarcastic and save the "well, you're not good at it" comments. I know you like to try and put others down.

My point was, if you believe him to be the best this year, it's sad that you're quick to let it go. I'm sick of sellouts like yourself.

And arguing about Bowen being robbed on an internet message board will effectively change......what?

Nothing.

/thread

[SA210]

And arguing about Bowen being robbed on an internet message board will effectively change......what?

Nothing.

/thread
So don't even discuss it because You think so. :rolleyes whatever