EIGHTY free throws - The Official Discuss The Officiating Thread

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:madrun Officiating is horseshit.

[exstatic]

Weak. You're Avery light.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Fuck off exstatic. At one end the Spurs can't get a call, at the other they can't go a play without a call.

And then I get this fucking cunt Dumbo Miller saying they're letting them play. Are you shitting me?

[Louae]

fuckin' refs. those fuckers are fuckin' us.

[Leetonidas]

I agree with you actually. F-ing bullshit.

[scott]

Hmmmm... lame but at least AHF isn't blaming Pop yet.

[ZStomp]

I thought we were glad that Nies and Bavetta weren't here. :lmao

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Weren't the Spurs shooting free throws with 6+ minutes left in the first?

The officiating has been bad both ways...

[exstatic]

mavs have 14 Spurs have 13 FTA.

Mavs are bringin it and shooting well. Manu is fucking invisible.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

8:47 Robert Horry loose ball foul
8:34 Tim Duncan shooting foul
8:34 Nick Van Exel technical foul
7:30 Michael Finley personal foul
7:30 Nick Van Exel technical foul
7:22 Tim Duncan shooting foul
6:20 Tim Duncan offensive foul
6:07 Brent Barry loose ball foul

:lol Fuck you David Stern.

[ALVAREZ6]

Weak ass excuse.


Don't blame the refs, the Spurs are playing the shittiest basketball ever.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Man fuck y'all.

How can you play basketball when every time you bump someone it's a foul, and at the other end you're getting hacked and shoved and the only time the whistle is blown it's an offensive foul on you?

The Mavs are getting to do whatever they want on defense, while at the other end the refs have succumbed to the bullshit bear hug whining by Avery.

Fucking gutless. And I'm talking about the stripes.

25 personal fouls called so far. This is going to be another 2003 50 FT game for _allas.

[A-Train]

That was a rather questionable stretch of calls. Oh well, Mavs need TD off the floor to beat the Spurs, no surprise.

[exstatic]

Spurs are dribbling and shooting J's. There is virtually no ball movement. Mavs are attacking the rim. Guess which one wins games.

[FreshPrince22]

Sorry but... :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

Spurs fans, you guys do that everytime anyone else complains about calls that go the Spurs way.

[picnroll]

I blame NeVEr. Hopefully Pop will do what he did to Big Dog last year and put his ass on the bench permanently. Better yet put him in a sport coat.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Aggie- you're arguing with Exstatic here.....that's kind of like bitching to the guy at the drive through window at four in the morning......no point

[ALVAREZ6]

You should be used to this by now, it's the fucking NBA.





I don't know how many more years I'll be able to watch Spurs games by the way games are called, but regardless, the Spurs deserve to lose this game by no less than 50.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Spurs are playing horrible ball and are fielding a horrible team against an aggressive mavs team, they are calling this game decent but rewarding the aggressor, i.e. duncan, parker, every mav

[NCaliSpurs]

The Mavs are getting away with a lot of contact at the rim that the Spurs are not getting away with.

That being said, the Spurs are just getting it handed to them.

[scott]

Spurs are playing horrible ball and are fielding a horrible team against an aggressive mavs team, they are calling this game decent but rewarding the aggressor, i.e. duncan, parker, every mav

Bingo!

[mookie2001]

2006 playoffs as a whole are the worst officiated playoffs ive ever seen

[exstatic]

There's a word for fans who trash Mavs followers for bitching at refs and then bitch about refs: hypocrite.

It's either about the refs or it isn't.

[Leetonidas]

Sorry but... :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

Spurs fans, you guys do that everytime anyone else complains about calls that go the Spurs way.

When it's this type of desparity, I think it's fair on both sides. I'd be pissed if I was a Mavs fan and this shit was happening.

[exstatic]

Aggie- you're arguing with Exstatic here.....that's kind of like bitching to the guy at the drive through window at four in the morning......no point
We'll acknowledge you as the SME on bitching at drive thru window attendants at 4AM.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Fuck you Javie.

[sanman53]

How long was that 2nd quarter anyway??

It took forever to get to halftime!

Jabby sucks! Finally the fans started cheering that!

[snowboarder]

AHF is always bitching when we're losing

[mookie2001]

hes right this time
I dont want to be a fan of a game thats conducted in this manner

[nkdlunch]

damn. it looks really bad for the refs. they lost control this time.

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

Im not one to put the blame on the officials, but the last 5 minutes of this game have to be the worst officiating I have ever seen in my entire fucking life. The elbow to Ginobili's fuckin face, the shove on Parker that he gets called for, the blocking foul on Barry, and now this bullshit with the inadverdent whistle im sorry but this is just fucking ridiculous.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Suck my dick snowboarder. We're getting jobbed every way imaginable. Wake the fuck up and watch what's going on.

We just had a possession taken away by an 'inadvertant' whistle. Are you fucking shitting me?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yeah that was a little too uncanny
at least the spurs won last time

[mookie2001]

dirk just had the ball in both hands while posting up and hopped his way into position

[snowboarder]

Suck my dick snowboarder. We're getting jobbed every way imaginable. Wake the fuck up and watch what's going on.

We just had a possession taken away by an 'inadvertant' whistle. Are you fucking shitting me?

Did i ever say I disagreed with you? no

I said your always a bitch when the spurs are losing. get it right

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And like I said, suck my cock. If you don't disagree, why are you going Avery Johnson?

[Dingle Barry]

i agree, worst call ever

[mookie2001]

was that a late call against stack?

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

And another one

[Cant_Be_Faded]

tx judson rocket tx judson judson rocket

[snowboarder]

And like I said, suck my cock. If you don't disagree, why are you going Avery Johnson?

dude you think your hard :lol, stop being a punk

fuck the refs- happy now? and fuck you too.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

LOLOL finley = owned

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

tx judson rocket tx judson judson rocket

?

[makedamnsure]

Dallas came out with a good start and we finally started getting into the game at the end of the first quarter. When things look like they're going our way, the refs decide to fuck with us.

I don't like to blame the refs but holy shit I was completely surprised they were letting some stuff not be called and then on the other half, OVERcalling some stuff.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

this was the worst officiated playoff game i Have ever seen.

I dont even know how to put my frustration into words

[BATIECL]

Fuck off exstatic. At one end the Spurs can't get a call, at the other they can't go a play without a call.

And then I get this fucking cunt Dumbo Miller saying they're letting them play. Are you shitting me?


AND YOU SAID IT. NOW ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THE REFS BECAUSE OF THE FINES BUT RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG

[BATIECL]

Suck my dick snowboarder. We're getting jobbed every way imaginable. Wake the fuck up and watch what's going on.

We just had a possession taken away by an 'inadvertant' whistle. Are you fucking shitting me?


NOW THINK JUST HOW BAD THAT CALL WAS AND THEN YOU ARE GOING TO AWARD A JUMP BALL WHEN YOU CLEARLY FUCKED THAT ONE UP. WHAT'S WRONG WITH (MY BAD MAN TAKE IT OUT ON THE SIDE) BUT NO!! THEY THROW IT UP AND SAY NO-ONE HAD IT. THAT'S SOME BULLSHIT AND JABBIE KNOWS IT!

[LilMissSPURfect]

I wonder if CUBAN complains to the LEAGUE about the officiating ...the complaining that is supposed to benefit all teams?????????

[TDfan2007]

that JT push on Tim really pissed me off. We were getting back in the game and then he just blatantly shoved Tim and got an open shot.

FUCK YOU REFS!

I usually never complain about officiating, but this time it was too damn obvious.

[SA210]

refs suck

[T-Pain]

:madrun Officiating is horseshit.
your right. there was a bunch of questionable calls, but the spurs didnt lose because of the refs.

[baseline bum]

The jump ball and the foul on Tim for being pushed into Howard by Dampier were two of the most pathetic pieces of shit I've ever seen. Fuck Javie. Fuck Rush. Fuck Kermit-the Frog on Dallas' sideline.

[4001 STEREO SPUR]

I wonder if CUBAN complains to the LEAGUE about the officiating ...the complaining that is supposed to benefit all teams?????????


That fucker cuban aint gonna' complain about this game!!

[shelshor]

I wonder if CUBAN complains to the LEAGUE about the officiating ...the complaining that is supposed to benefit all teams?????????
Of course not, that would mean he has at least a small amount of integrity

[fyatuk]

There were several cases of the refs blowing whistles before a foul. They were anticipating, and the anticipating make them look like idiots on that one play.

[LEONARD]

LMAO...I love it...

Dallas - 27 fouls
SA - 26 fouls

What an injustice...

There was bad no-calls and touch fouls called on both teams....

[samikeyp]

There was bad no-calls and touch fouls called on both teams....

Agreed. The officiating was bad but it was bad both ways. No excuse for the loss.

[DarkReign]

I see alot of level-headed Spurs in here, so this may not be directed at you.

If ALL those bad calls werent in fact called, you would have only lost by 10.

Happy now?

Spurs stunk it up. Game 3 will be different.

[SA210]

Rigged sorry NBA refs, they suck!

Now on to probably Bennette Salvitore in Game 3...

[yavozerb]

Ya, that was pretty crappy call!!Spurs won the tip though..

[LEONARD]

Keep the officiating threads coming!! hahahaha

[J.T.]

Line of the Game
Mavs
R - Steve Javie
26 assists on 81 Mavericks points
14 steals

[A-Train]

The refs seemed to be anticipating infractions by the Spurs all night long.

[SAGambler]

Yeah, and it appeared what was a foul on our defensive end was not a foul on their defensive end. Especially where the Dirkster was involved...

Guess AJ and Cuban got over on the refs last night.

[Shank]

Maybe the refs could have put the ball in the basket a few more times to make up that 22 point difference.

[LEONARD]

Yeah, and it appeared what was a foul on our defensive end was not a foul on their defensive end. Especially where the Dirkster was involved...

Guess AJ and Cuban got over on the refs last night.

Clearly...clearly...

lol

[SA210]

Line of the Game
Mavs
R - Steve Javie
26 assists on 81 Mavericks points
14 steals
:lmao

[Mavtek]

Are you guys still complaining about that?

GOD DAMN get over it, accept the fact that Ginobli is an idiot, Howard was about to make a B line to the ball, he and Duncan would've fought over it. Consider yourself lucky. That fuck up by Ginobli still ended with the Spurs getting the ball with a fresh shot clock and them getting 2 points.

[ForestBrain]

haha, you guys..... The refs called the game pretty equally. They were showing no bias to either team. It's just the butt-head fans at the game were so biased they never noticed when the whistle blew against the Mavs.
Just accept it. The Mavs kicked the Spurs butt last night.

[ace3g]

Are you guys still complaining about that?

GOD DAMN get over it, accept the fact that Ginobli is an idiot, Howard was about to make a B line to the ball, he and Duncan would've fought over it. Consider yourself lucky. That fuck up by Ginobli still ended with the Spurs getting the ball with a fresh shot clock and them getting 2 points.


Ginobili might have messed up on the pass but that gives the ref no right to anticipate the call, and blow his whistle before it actually happens. That takes teams out of their offensive flow

[ForestBrain]

It went BOTH ways. Get OVER it.

[ace3g]

It went BOTH ways. Get OVER it.


Did you even watch the game, because if you did there was a stretch of like 3 or 4 min in the 2nd quarter where the spurs "did not get fouled once" and Ginobili and Parker were actively attacking the basket and then the spurs do have this player named Tim Duncan, you may have heard of him, who has some of the best footwork in the league and gets hammered pretty much every other play and still no call, he had like 3 or 4 and 1 chances that werent called in the 4th alone

[degenerate_gambler]

That takes teams out of their offensive flow


Tell me you aren't talking about the Spurs last nite dude.

You have to have some offensive flowin the first place in order to be taken out of it.

[ForestBrain]

I watched the ENTIRE game. The crowd over-reacted. And the calls that were called were good calls. What, do you want the refs to make up fouls on the Mavs?

[ace3g]

It went BOTH ways. Get OVER it.


I am sorry Forrest that we complain about a tough matchup when the Pistons who arent even the Defending champs last time I checked, get an easy ticket to the NBA finals through the "weak" Eastern Conference. uummmmmm lets see here.....


Piston: Bucks, Cavs, Heat/Nets > Finals

Spurs: Kings, Mavs, Clippers/Suns > Finals

so while you are prancing around with your weak opponets, the spurs are building up a competitve mentality


I still wonder what the Pistons record would have been if they were a western conference team (and yes I do know they had a winning record against the West)

[J.T.]

I still wonder what the Pistons record would have been if they were a western conference team (and yes I do know they had a winning record against the West)

54-28 prob

[SA Gunslinger]

I am not a Javie Fan but that Eddie F. Rush is a prick.

It's not the worst officiated game I have ever seen. Game Four against the Lakers in '03 and game one against the Mavs in '03 were the two games that were far worse, imo.

[Spurs Dynasty]

It went BOTH ways. Get OVER it.

You are aptly named, cuz your brain must be wooden. Now, to anyone watching the game it was obvious the officiating was one sided. Now we love to get on our SPurs when they deserve, and they did last night, but don't come in here and try to say the officiating was even. Announcers, reporters at post game, thousands of fans getting more pissed than i heve EVER seen the arena get are not wrong. We could call out each and every call, but that is unnecessary.

Did it cost the SPurs the game? I doubt it, but it was a contributing factor.

On to game 3.

[ace3g]

and again Forrest I am not talking about the foul totals for each team (yes those were pretty much even) most of that had to do with duncan getting the mavs big men in foul trouble, but foul totals has nothing to do with a game being calling unconsitently.

[leemajors]

the spurs lack of urgency and/or effort showed intent of a different sort.

[Spurs Dynasty]

I see alot of level-headed Spurs in here, so this may not be directed at you.

If ALL those bad calls werent in fact called, you would have only lost by 10.

Happy now?

Spurs stunk it up. Game 3 will be different.

Not necessarily. When the refs are calling against you the way they were you CHANGE YOUR GAME, especially defensively cuz you are afraid to breathe on the opponent for fear of another BS call. So, you become LESS aggresive and give more and better opportunities to the opponent changing the game entirely.

Still, SPurs sucked and I am hoping all the crap is done with this game. Spurs still take the Mavs, just a little tougher battle.

[texas84]

It went BOTH ways. Get OVER it.

I agree with you Forest. Heaven forbid Duncan should get in foul trouble. One of our big men even touches him while taking a shot, the whistle blew. You play in the post, you're going to get contact every time. And it's not like Duncan didn't go to the foul line last night.

The officiating was inconsistent on both ends... but unbiased as well.

[fyatuk]

Are you guys still complaining about that?

GOD DAMN get over it, accept the fact that Ginobli is an idiot, Howard was about to make a B line to the ball, he and Duncan would've fought over it. Consider yourself lucky. That fuck up by Ginobli still ended with the Spurs getting the ball with a fresh shot clock and them getting 2 points.

Uhh, let's review. The only mav who had reacted before the whistle slipped to the ground, and duncan was already running to get it and ginobli was wisely staying between any mavs and the ball. Duncan would have easily gotten the ball.

And the refs originally called it Mavs ball until the Spurs talked them into a jump ball. It really should have been sideout Spurs with the same shot clock, as it is on just about every other inadvertant whistle no matter who has or doesn't have the ball.

But you're right, it mostly helped the Spurs, so screw it.

[island_dude]

And like I said, suck my cock. If you don't disagree, why are you going Avery Johnson?
You're pathetic dude. First of all you blame a 20 point loss on the refs. The Mavs had more fouls than the Spurs, and Duncan got his share bs calls where no one could breathe in his vicinity. There were bad calls that went both ways.

Also is there any possible way of you making a post without spewing profanity, and making disgusting comments to other posters, even fellow Spurs fans? Then again it should be self explanitory. You're name (Aggies Hoopsfan) pretty much sums it up.

[LEONARD]

I watched the ENTIRE game. The crowd over-reacted. And the calls that were called were good calls. What, do you want the refs to make up fouls on the Mavs?

EXACTLY...the fans WAY over-reacted...

[ace3g]

Leonard I am atleast man enough to say when the spurs are getting calls to go their way when I am watching games, so you and all Mavs fans should do the same, how can you say the game was called fairly; and if you go by the foul totals that means nothing to whether or not the game was called consistent, the spurs made up alot of those calls at the end of the game in the 4th when it was already out of reach

[ForestBrain]

I am sorry Forrest that we complain about a tough matchup when the Pistons who arent even the Defending champs last time I checked, get an easy ticket to the NBA finals through the "weak" Eastern Conference. uummmmmm lets see here.....


Piston: Bucks, Cavs, Heat/Nets > Finals

Spurs: Kings, Mavs, Clippers/Suns > Finals

so while you are prancing around with your weak opponets, the spurs are building up a competitve mentality


I still wonder what the Pistons record would have been if they were a western conference team (and yes I do know they had a winning record against the West)
YOU forget that the defense in the east is much tougher than the defense in the west. And need I remind you of the Pistons record against the tops teams? Need I remind you of the two games the Pistons played against the Spurs? People go on about how easy the Pistons have it. But you don't realize a few facts. All throughout the season, when teams played the Pistons, it was a playoff game for them. A statement game. They had the best record for back-to-backs. Your team sucked on back-to-backs. When you played the Kings, you didn't lose those games because of the Kings being so good, your team sucked for two games. They didn't play good defense. Stop trying to make excuses. I know the Spurs are a great team, and I know what they are capable of. And remember that YOU brought up the Pistons. Not me. IF the Pistons are having an easy ride to the finals, there regular season made up for it.

[Brutalis]

Spurs fans know that game was one sided, we don't even need to complain about it because it won't happen again.

[LEONARD]

Leonard I am atleast man enough to say when the spurs are getting calls to go their way when I am watching games, so you and all Mavs fans should do the same, how can you say the game was called fairly; and if you go by the foul totals that means nothing to whether or not the game was called consistent, the spurs made up alot of those calls at the end of the game in the 4th when it was already out of reach

Mavs - 13 fouls in 2nd half (6 in 4th)
Spurs - 11 fouls in 2nd half (6 in 4th)

The fans over-reacted because the Spurs players were over-reacting to calls even if they were obvious fouls (like Duncan's 3rd foul).

Bad calls, no calls, touch fouls, technicals...all went both ways. Sorry...

[fyatuk]

EXACTLY...the fans WAY over-reacted...

I have to disagree. That part of the game was seriously slanted towards the Mavs. Even the announcers at that point were talking how 2 fouls called on the Spurs should have been against the Mavs, and that the Mavs were getting away with several travels and non-called fouls. And this was at a part of the game when the Spurs started playing with energy and aggression and were trying to make a comeback. The fans were not over-reacting. That was an insanely unfair stretch.

But shit happens. It's part of the game.

I personally over-reacted when I flipped to the game and noticed that both Pop and AJ had already been called for T's, and it was still early. I knew Javie was ref'ing from that and booed the TV immediately.

In my opinion Javie is the worst ref in the game. Ruins just about every game he calls.

[leemajors]

Mavs - 13 fouls in 2nd half (6 in 4th)
Spurs - 11 fouls in 2nd half (6 in 4th)

The fans over-reacted because the Spurs players were over-reacting to calls even if they were obvious fouls (like Duncan's 3rd foul).

Bad calls, no calls, touch fouls, technicals...all went both ways. Sorry...

the only problem i had with the officiating was the third call on duncan, and that string of fouls on the spurs in the 2nd quarter. i just hate it when the refs bog the game down with touch calls either way. to me at least, some of those fouls called on the spurs killed what tiny bit of momentum they had going. however, they should have played above it and didn't so it doesn't really matter. the mavs did, and won easily because of it.

[Mavtek]

the only problem i had with the officiating was the third call on duncan, and that string of fouls on the spurs in the 2nd quarter. i just hate it when the refs bog the game down with touch calls either way. to me at least, some of those fouls called on the spurs killed what tiny bit of momentum they had going. however, they should have played above it and didn't so it doesn't really matter. the mavs did, and won easily because of it.

That 3rd call had to be made, it was clearly a charge, Howard was out of the restricted zone and he was set.

[Mavtek]

the only problem i had with the officiating was the third call on duncan, and that string of fouls on the spurs in the 2nd quarter. i just hate it when the refs bog the game down with touch calls either way. to me at least, some of those fouls called on the spurs killed what tiny bit of momentum they had going. however, they should have played above it and didn't so it doesn't really matter. the mavs did, and won easily because of it.

That 3rd call had to be made, it was clearly a charge, Howard was out of the restricted zone and he was set.

[Mavtek]

the only problem i had with the officiating was the third call on duncan, and that string of fouls on the spurs in the 2nd quarter. i just hate it when the refs bog the game down with touch calls either way. to me at least, some of those fouls called on the spurs killed what tiny bit of momentum they had going. however, they should have played above it and didn't so it doesn't really matter. the mavs did, and won easily because of it.

That 3rd call had to be made, it was clearly a charge, Howard was out of the restricted zone and he was set.

[Spurs Dynasty]

Mavs - 13 fouls in 2nd half (6 in 4th)
Spurs - 11 fouls in 2nd half (6 in 4th)

The fans over-reacted because the Spurs players were over-reacting to calls even if they were obvious fouls (like Duncan's 3rd foul).

Bad calls, no calls, touch fouls, technicals...all went both ways. Sorry...

Sorry, fellow forum members, i am trying desperatly to let this game go, but every time i see crap like this i MUST respond.

Leonard, Leonard, Leonard (*sigh*) it is not the NUMBER OF FOUL CALLED but the number of wrong/bad calls made, on whom and at what point in the game. This game was not even close to being a fairly called game.

[LilMissSPURfect]

that inadvertant whistle....shows intent.

HOW BOUT WE "intent" to make up for all this crap and kick their ass in their home twice!!!!

[LilMissSPURfect]

:flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

[LEONARD]

Sorry, fellow forum members, i am trying desperatly to let this game go, but every time i see crap like this i MUST respond.

Leonard, Leonard, Leonard (*sigh*) it is not the NUMBER OF FOUL CALLED but the number of wrong/bad calls made, on whom and at what point in the game. This game was not even close to being a fairly called game.

I was just showing you that your statement of:

"the spurs made up alot of those calls at the end of the game in the 4th when it was already out of reach"

was invalid...

I understand exactly what you're saying...I just disagree that the Spurs got robbed...

[DarrinS]

There were a lot of weird calls last night -- on both sides.

It seems like every time they made a questionable call against the Spurs, there would be a "make up" call against Dallas on the next possession.

Ok, we've spent enough time talking about the refs. It's time to move on.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I'm having 2003 flashbacks. How did that series turn out?

[LEONARD]

More whining about officiating...amazing... :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

More whining about officiating...amazing... :lol


Coming from fans who's owner and coach bitch, it shouldn't be.

[sixeightmkw]

It's funny that no one can accept the fact that they got their ass beat last night. It's really no big deal. Just one game. This is a 7 game series. Mavs could win, Spurs could win. we'll see.

[zocool16]

many spurs fans are angry with the officiating that took place last night, myself included, even thouhh that will not gve us game 2 back, I'd like to know which of all the calls made you the angriest or you disagreed with the most. from ginobili's face fould to harris' elbow to nick van exel's prompt ejection, which call got u the angriest? why?

personally I must say that the call I think changed everything was Tim Duncan's third foul. With already havin been called for a couple of questionable fouls, the ref gives Tim a third in a play in which if I'm not mistaken Josh Howard runs out of the zone late and stands in front of Tim as he's jumping for a shot. Not only IMO was this an awful call but it sent Tim to the bench for over half of an entire quarter. This is when the Mavs totally got away....

Not that the Mavs wouldn't have won anyway but that call messed up our chances a tiny bit

[sixeightmkw]

Coming from fans who's owner and coach bitch, it shouldn't be.
And the Spurs players and coach during the game don't bitch either. When was the last report from Cuban in the papers of him bitching publicly about officiating. Could you post that for me?

[Trainwreck2100]

It's funny that no one can accept the fact that they got their ass beat last night. It's really no big deal. Just one game. This is a 6 game series. Mavs won't win, Spurs will win. we'll see.

[EVAY]

It wasn't the number of free throws that were the issue to me. It was the manner of the calls, and the timing. Spurs got called in the middle of the Mav's offense so often, allowing the Mavs ( who have the audacity to actually MAKE most of the free throws they get) to go to the line and get bailed out, when they might have missed the shot. For almost all of the first half, the spurs had a better percentage shooting than the MAVS, but the MAVS kept getting the points because they were at the foul line and making shots. Take a look at the box score for Tony and Josh Howard, e.g., They had approximately the same percentage field goal percentage, but Howard had about ten or more points because he scored 11 of 11 at the line. Tony only got 6 free throws and missed three of them.

[ducks]

it is funny you have 4 post and was not here before the mavs won a game

[Trainwreck2100]

And the Spurs players and coach during the game don't bitch either. When was the last report from Cuban in the papers of him bitching publicly about officiating. Could you post that for me?

blogmaverick.com

[greywheel]

More whining about officiating...amazing... :lol

Leonard who just said this 'People who dont whine are punching bags.'

Answer (http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000210073685)

Also from this week. He whined (http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000210073685) .

[greywheel]

Damn it trainwreck you killed the effectiveness of my post.

[maxpower]

The call that topped it for me was the call by the balding ref who anticipated Manu touching the ball after he passed it to no one near midcourt.

And they say refs do not anticipate calls. That illustrates to me how refs assume there was contact around the basket when in reality they may not have even seen it.

I hope those tax evading thieves burn in hell. However don't question their integrity.

[fyatuk]

many spurs fans are angry with the officiating that took place last night, myself included, even thouhh that will not gve us game 2 back, I'd like to know which of all the calls made you the angriest or you disagreed with the most. from ginobili's face fould to harris' elbow to nick van exel's prompt ejection, which call got u the angriest? why?


The one I disagree with the most was Barry's blocking foul. He stood stark still and had position and the mav player took 2-3 steps, jumped into his shoulder and got free throws. Stupid.

The one that pissed me off the most was the inadvertant whistle, just because it gave the impression the officials were making calls before an infraction actually took place.

[JoeChalupa]

I can understand being upset about the officiating but that was not why the Spurs lost. In all honesty I didn't think too much about it during the game. The quality of play was simply not there.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

The call that came down from the league offices to have Steve Javie officiate the game was the one that pissed me off the most.

[texas84]

That is the hardest call in basketball, the charge/blocking foul. But honestly, Josh established position outside the restricted area. It was a good call.

[MadDog73]

Mavs shot 6 more free throws = 8 more points.

[EVAY]

The one that got me the most was when Brent Barry was called for a blocking foul when he was in position and stationary for about a full two minutes before Nowitzki slammed into him OUTSIDE of the no-charge zone. It was Brent's third or fourth, I can't remember.

[sixeightmkw]

Mavs shot 6 more free throws = 8 more points.
Spurs learn to make free throws and it is even.

[DarkReign]

Not necessarily. When the refs are calling against you the way they were you CHANGE YOUR GAME, especially defensively cuz you are afraid to breathe on the opponent for fear of another BS call. So, you become LESS aggresive and give more and better opportunities to the opponent changing the game entirely.

Hmmmm, that sounds uniquely familiar to another teams argument....cant place the occasion...

Sucks dont it?


Still, SPurs sucked and I am hoping all the crap is done with this game. Spurs still take the Mavs, just a little tougher battle.

The same realization that formerly mentioned team came to.

[EVAY]

The call that came down from the league offices to have Steve Javie officiate the game was the one that pissed me off the most.

ABSOLUTELY! When I saw Javie on the court before the game I told the folks around us that we would lose, because Javie was officiating. If Javie officiates a game between the Spurs and either the Lakers or the Mavs, the Spurs lose. At half-time, I heard a Spurs staffer saying the exact same thing, except that he thought that the entire officiating crew was the worst group. I think the others take their cue from Javie.

[Trainwreck2100]

The two baitjobs Dampier was able to put on Duncan he pushed him into a player and Duncan got his second foul.

I disagreed with the call Reggie Miller was doing the most though, at least when Walton talks out of his ass he's somewhat comical

[JohnMcClane]

Wasn't Van Exel ejected in both game 2s? 2002-2003 WCF and this series?

[sixeightmkw]

blogmaverick.com
And where in there did he complain of the officiating of any of the Memphis games or the first game of the series or this game? Nowhere. He has a blog talking about having the best officials on the floor for the playoffs. thats it.

[MadDog73]

Spurs learn to make free throws and it is even.


Not quite. If Spurs equaled the Mavs free throw %, they would get :rolleyes

2 more points.

But, as has been stated on this board, having Duncan sit down in the second really hurt the Spurs. That said, I think the Spurs let the refs get to them, instead of just playing through it.

Oh, and the Mavs outplayed them, too. That helps. I expect the Spurs to do much better on Saturday... assuming everyone is healthy (or, more healthy, anyway).

[Trainwreck2100]

And where in there did he complain of the officiating of any of the Memphis games or the first game of the series or this game? Nowhere. He has a blog talking about having the best officials on the floor for the playoffs. thats it.

Why would he complain about the officiating in the Memphis series? and look in the archives, you asked for the link I gave it to you, you do the work.

[EVAY]

I see alot of level-headed Spurs in here, so this may not be directed at you.

If ALL those bad calls werent in fact called, you would have only lost by 10.

Happy now?

Spurs stunk it up. Game 3 will be different.


That's fair enough. The Spurs DID stink it up. No ball movement on offense, no play running, just get the ball to Tim and let him slow down the offense. I think you are just about right on where we would have ended up if the game had been called better. We didn't deserve to win, but we deserved to have a better-officiated game.

[sixeightmkw]

Why would he complain about the officiating in the Memphis series? and look in the archives, you asked for the link I gave it to you, you do the work.
And also, did you read my Post, I said recently. Has he complained recently. Like he did in 02-03. no, he has learned to be quite.

[DarkReign]

We didn't deserve to win, but we deserved to have a better-officiated game.

Completely agreed. Like I said in another thread, I dont think SA will play another game like this for the entire playoffs. They may not win this series, or even a championship, but it wont be because of officiating or poor play.

[greywheel]

And where in there did he complain of the officiating of any of the Memphis games or the first game of the series or this game? Nowhere. He has a blog talking about having the best officials on the floor for the playoffs. thats it.

Cuban freely admitted he whines.
Now that I own the Mavs, I whine about a lot of things in the NBA, from marketing to officials, which has led to change.

And the article on the officials was posted the day after game 1, why would he bother complaining about the Memphis series that the Mavs swept. The official article was prewritten and posted when he felt the need to whine.

[sixeightmkw]

Please. again, show me the line where he complained about the officials, Where he blatantly called out a ref in a game. He doesn't do that anymore. And the whole entire premise of the blog he wrote specifically goes into detail of how he wants veteran officials calling games, not rookie refs. So if that is complaining, then yes he did. But I am sure you would agree that you would want veterans officiating games.

[foodie2]

And also, did you read my Post, I said recently. Has he complained recently. Like he did in 02-03. no, he has learned to be quite.

Quite what? Quite annoying? I'll buy that.

[Drive Like Jehu]

"The NRA, I love this game!"*




*National Referee Association

[zocool16]

i think nick van exel throwing the towel was a tiny bit drastic considering he didnt throw it at anybody or that the play wasnt close to that place. the towel landed off the court...but eh nick wanted out anyways. im surprised no one's said anything about ginobili's face foul to harris.. poor manu had to go get his face fixed and that was an AND ONE lol. i think manu will bounce back though

[A-Train]

There's a reason coaches bitch about the refs through the media: it works.

[Kori Ellis]

Stop starting threads about the same subject.

There's enough officiating threads.

Look around to the other threads before posting.

[veronicamae]

And the Spurs players and coach during the game don't bitch either. When was the last report from Cuban in the papers of him bitching publicly about officiating. Could you post that for me?


I personally have not read about him in the papers, but I was at Game 1 and watched him walk out onto the court during a timeout and proceed to have a very vocal and "gesturative" argument with a FAN sitting on the other side of the court. That's worse than any overly-edited story that's been published.

[NoMoneyDown]

Please. again, show me the line where he complained about the officials, Where he blatantly called out a ref in a game. He doesn't do that anymore. And the whole entire premise of the blog he wrote specifically goes into detail of how he wants veteran officials calling games, not rookie refs. So if that is complaining, then yes he did. But I am sure you would agree that you would want veterans officiating games.

I actually commented about his call for shareholder uprise. :lol

[Carie]

This thread was initially talking about the total number of free throws, not the disparity. This had been said numerous times but bears repeating. The majority of the fans are not blaming the loss on the refs. They are complaining about the quality of the officiating.


And also, did you read my Post, I said recently. Has he complained recently. Like he did in 02-03. no, he has learned to be quite.
I read your post. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time you said recently. Originally you just asked for the last time which he provided.


And the Spurs players and coach during the game don't bitch either. When was the last report from Cuban in the papers of him bitching publicly about officiating. Could you post that for me?

[sixeightmkw]

And the Spurs players and coach during the game don't bitch either. When was the last report from Cuban in the papers of him bitching publicly about officiating. Could you post that for me?
I think that would be considered recently.

[Carie]

I think that would be considered recently.
Not to argue, but no. Would you consider the last ice age recent? It was the last one.

I don't play much with the big boys (and girls) of this forum regarding basketball knowledge, I don't pretend to have that level of understanding. But I do read the posts and will advise that if you're going to have a discussion with them, argue points worth making. That's all I'm getting at. With that, welcome to the forum :)

[sixeightmkw]

And that is exactly what I did. He has not made any recent comments about the officiating. And no one has posted anything to refute that at this time.

[Kori Ellis]

http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000970073680/

May 7th.

[sixeightmkw]

http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000970073680/

May 7th.
And if you would actually read the previous posts made by myself and other members, you would know that this article talks about having veteran officails calling the games, not rookie refs. It is not a call out of any refs. Please read before posting. And yeah, read that article.

[Kori Ellis]

Excuse me, I was just reading your most recent post saying ..


He has not made any recent comments about the officiating.

I'm not going to read this whole stupid thread.

Everyone knows Cuban whines about the officiating.

Everyone knows that the officiating didn't cost the Spurs the game last night.

[sixeightmkw]

Excuse me, I was just reading your most recent post saying ..



I'm not going to read this whole stupid thread.

Everyone knows Cuban whines about the officiating.

Everyone knows that the officiating didn't cost the Spurs the game last night.
and this article is not about WHINING about the refs.

[Kori Ellis]

and this article is not about WHINING about the refs.

Everything Cuban writes is whining.

I like him a lot, but even he knows he's a whiner.

http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000210073685/

[Carie]

And if you would actually read the previous posts made by myself and other members, you would know that this article talks about having veteran officails calling the games, not rookie refs. It is not a call out of any refs. Please read before posting. And yeah, read that article.
:bang

[v2freak]

I think AHF has a valid point. It's good that most of you don't like to make excuses, but don't turn a blind eye to what's in front of you

[Drive Like Jehu]

officiating may not have cost the spurs the game

but it cost the fans who were wanting to watch a good game of basketball


They paid good money to see it also.

I love going to Spurs games regardless if they win or not. However, I'd avoid paying money for an NBA game with Javie or Salvatore as the refs. Unfortunately, the NBA keeps the identity of the refs secret until game time. Thank goodness I didn't waste my money on that "basketball" game last night.

[SA210]

They paid good money to see it also.

I love going to Spurs games regardless if they win or not. However, I'd avoid paying money for an NBA game with Javie or Salvatore as the refs. Unfortunately, the NBA keeps the identity of the refs secret until game time. Thank goodness I didn't waste my money on that "basketball" game last night.
Just to think of the possibilities of Salvitore reffing Game 3.:madrun

[Drive Like Jehu]

and this article is not about WHINING about the refs.



The NBA fined Mavericks owner Mark Cuban $200,000 for going onto the court in Game 1 of Dallas' series against the Spurs and criticizing league officials on his blog, ESPN's Jim Gray is reporting.


Looks like money talks and your BS walks... :spin

[cheguevara]

Line of the Game
Mavs
R - Steve Javie
26 assists on 81 Mavericks points
14 steals

:lol

[Mavs_Man 41]

comon guys its time to stop whining about the officiating....The spurs got more calls in game 1 as did the mavs in game 2

[Dirk Lewinsky]

I like the charge call against Duncan when Koby did the same thing against NASH in damn near the same spot on the court and they called it 'posterizing' Nash.

That's the problem. It's not just one game or any particular team but there ARE some players they seem to ref differently one way or the other.

I like watching the NBA but the product is often 'suspect' to say the least. Had the Spurs won game two this thing was OVER. It's going 7 games if they have to foul TD out in the first period.

[Crookshanks]

It's going 7 games if they have to foul TD out in the first period.

They have to give us something to watch, since they know the Pistons/Cavs series will probably be over in 4 games! So much for his highness, King James - what a joke!

[Jimcs50]

Spurs are dribbling and shooting J's. There is virtually no ball movement. Mavs are attacking the rim. Guess which one wins games.


The Spurs attacked the rim, but they missed 12 layups....they could not buy a basket. That will not happen again. I really think fatigue set in and they just had no energy.

[greywheel]

That's the only good thing about having to deal with Mavs fans until Saturday, the Spurs will get some rest.

[SA210]

I just watched the game again and SCREW all those that say the refs had NO negative IMPACT whatsoever on the game.

The timing of those calls and obvious no calls especially came when we were gaining momentum. Watch the darn game again. Screw the amount of free throws.

It's when they called them.

[SA210]

the Referees DICTATED THE PACE OF THE GAME
Exactly, we were on a run, then all these sorry calls and no calls screwing up the pace and our momentum.

If we are on a run to get back in the game and the calls don't go the same both ways, then that DOES have an impact on the game whether we played spurs ball for 48 minutes or not. Even if we still lost by 10 with a well effeciently called game, it's ridiculous. No excuse and ridiculous for people to be blind to that.

[sixeightmkw]

The Spurs tried to make several runs, but the Mavs came right back and scored. It wasn't the refs, it was the SA D.

[SA210]

my girlfriend is not from the united states and hates sports, and the only other time she's sat and watched a basketball game was last year's nba finals...

she asked me if there was a governing body that could overrule the referees' blatantly incorrect calls.

i told her no.

she asked me why not, because then the referees could get away with fixing a game.

I said exactly
I sit here and watch the replay of this game and see this crap and how obvious it was and wonder how people can act like it was no big deal.

When Duncan got cleared out, Javie was watching it clearly as was the other ref on the opposite side. If you watch the replay you will see how obvious it was and the refs saw it and swallowed their whistles and Pop got up yelling at that other ref.

Pop saw it from sitting down and those refs were watching them even better while being on the floor. That does have an impact.

Crazy.

[sixeightmkw]

All Spurs fans need to pray to God on their knees for the next 3 days that he heals TP and Manu before then. If not, the Spurs are dead in the water. If you expect Udrih or NVE to take his spot over and produce like TP does, your terrribly mistaken.

[Kori Ellis]

If you expect Udrih or NVE to take his spot over and produce like TP does, your terrribly mistaken.

Agreed.

I think with 3 days rest, Tony will be fine. I don't know about Manu because I don't know what's wrong with him.

[mFFL03]

I can already see that ALOT of you barley watched ANY basketball during the season. Trust me, mavs fans watch pretty much 70% of the games on TV. The ones who show up are the rich and poshy who leave after the 3rd quarter, props to the spurs fans who show up to the game and STAY there.

anyway, lets get back to the ignorance. Make up calls firstly. This has been implemented throughout the WHOLE season, nothing new here people. If my mavs get 3 straight calls called against them, they are going to get some ridiculous calls for them on the other side.

The refs HELPING you out!?! Our centers (diop,dampier) had how many fouls after the 2nd or in the middle of the second!?! 6! that's insane. Coming back from halftime we had foul trouble with 4 guys....it was 3, 3, 3, 2, 2 spurs were 3,2,2,2

mavs superstar = DIRK How many free throws so far 6 + 7 = 15

spurs superstar = TD How many free throws so far 14 + 15 = 29

and for those who SAY dirk shouldnt be getting perimeter calls because the guy in the paint will always get fouled....

come on. look at his season avg. He wasn't ALMOST MVP for his style of play. That is why he is so unique.

This is nothing new, your bruce bowen defense is light years ahead of the refs. you can actually hug a man and slap his arms and forearms and not get called.

You want to see see the results of bear hug defense? ask manu how his chin feels. (which was purley accidental) there is no point in leaning into a guy when he is going up for a layup, bad decision by Manu.

also, we've seen circus o'lay shots from both teams, but ask manu how his butt feels today. Not every player is going to land on his feet

AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, LEARN SOME SPORTSMANSHIP. STOP COMPLAINING AFTER EVERY FOUL CALLED ON YOU. THIS ISN'T A COURT OF LAW ITS A BASKETBALL GAME. LOOK HOW NO MAV'S PLAYER WILL COMPLAIN TO THE REF TO HIS FACE, MAYBE STACKHOUSE BUT THATS IT.

death to timmy, death to the spurs.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't disagree with a lot that you said. But this part was classic ..




AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, LEARN SOME SPORTSMANSHIP. ...
death to timmy, death to the spurs.

[timvp]

:rollin

Mav fans are classic.

[mFFL03]

sorry thats been my tagline since '03

[RonMexico]

(I posted the following in a different thread, but I think it's still relevant to what you stated here, so if you guys think you've already seen it, you may actually have...) - also, I wasn't at the game, but I couldn't hear the "Let's Go Mavericks" shouts over the TV. I heard "[Steve] Javie Sucks!" pretty loudly and thought that was hilarious, but I will admit that AT&T was the quietest I've ever heard it, and I've been to about 4 games and one And 1 MixTape Tour Event there.

"I'll admit it was a poorly officiated game overall (for both teams), but it was especially damaging to the Spurs because of the timing and impact of the calls - like when 2 obvious fouls by Dirk (and they were pretty obvious - not really judgment calls like block/charge) in the first half (when he had only 1 foul at the time) went uncalled and then Duncan ends up getting his 3rd at a pivotal point in the second quarter. Then Devin Harris jumps into Ginobili with his elbow (Ginobili required stiches), but it's called a block and Harris gets a 3-pt play out of it. Also, the Spurs are making a small comeback, but the Mavs are on the break, and then Brent Barry gets called for the 2nd worst block call of the playoffs (I'm still partial to the Kobe over Nash dunk because of my fandom) - a huge momentum-shift possibility for the Spurs that goes in favor of the Mavs. (And Barry was planted at least a second before Howard got there/went up - a really bad call by Javie, which no doubt intensified the "Javie Sucks!" chant from a relatively knowledgeable and fair SA fan-base.)

In all honesty, it seemed as if the refs had a quick whistle all night long (2 quick techs on Pop and Avery; Van Exel gets ejected), but the most extreme example was the inadvertant whistle play where the ref jumped the gun thinking Ginobili (who is a smart player and was just trying to shield off the Mavs) was going to touch the ball and then didn't. The call forced a timeout and jumpball, which also affected the Spurs momentum after just getting a stop at the other end. I mean, I'm in no way a Spurs fan right now (not until the Suns are eliminated), but I just don't like seeing a team that is struggling in a game have to endure officiating that impacts their momentum in such a way, especially when the Mavs seemed to have an answer at the other end for every Spurs score - they needed every break to go their way and it seems like these plays and calls just took the life out of them."

[mFFL03]

trust me there should have been 4 fouls to put dirk on the free throw line.

if you don't see dirk getting whistled, like i said in my post, it's more than likely a make up for the call he didn't get on the other end.

and momentum killers? pace killing? come on. you all love the half court game. Those face paced games arent your style at all.

[greyforest]

I don't disagree with a lot that you said. But this part was classic ..

lol

death to hypocricy!

[Deb]

[QUOTE=mFFL03]I

"This is nothing new, your bruce bowen defense is light years ahead of the refs. you can actually hug a man and slap his arms and forearms and not get called.

You want to see see the results of bear hug defense? ask manu how his chin feels. (which was purley accidental) there is no point in leaning into a guy when he is going up for a layup, bad decision by Manu."

This too is classic. First, this guy bought into the whole bear hug thing, going so far even as to quote it. Then, he seems to get some gross satisfaction about asking Manu how his chin feels after having to take stitches.

Sick Maverick humor I guess

[RonMexico]

trust me there should have been 4 fouls to put dirk on the free throw line.

if you don't see dirk getting whistled, like i said in my post, it's more than likely a make up for the call he didn't get on the other end.

and momentum killers? pace killing? come on. you all love the half court game. Those face paced games arent your style at all.


It's possible that Dirk was getting away with some of his patented Karl Malone-style slap downs and inability to move his feet laterally on defense (see hitting Horry on the head as Dirk is pretty much frozen), because he's not getting the "respect" he deserves at the other end from the officials. I can give you that one, but if he's the Mavs "superstar," then it's a poor trade-off for the Spurs who have to lose Duncan (the Spurs superstar) to his 3rd foul (an offensive foul when the aforementioned Dirk pushed him into Jason Terry, who definitely was outside the circle with good position) - especially when Duncan is the only one playing well for the Spurs at that time. (I'll just mention that Duncan's second foul came on a questionable ticky-tack against Marquis Daniels when Daniels drove to the lane and double-pumped... the same type of call that Dirk got away with on Horry a few plays later.)

Once again, I'm not really discussing the numbers of calls missed, but the situational changes that arose from the inconsistent officiating (i.e. as a Mavs fan, you know that if I said Diop and Dampier would have 2-3 fouls apeice, but Duncan has to sit down with over 5 minutes remaining in the first half with 3 fouls, you would take that in a heartbeat). Likewise, so what if Jason Terry had to go out a few minutes later with his 3rd foul? He's still not your marquee player (Dirk) or your X-factor (Josh Howard) and he's getting outperformed by his backup (Devin Harris) who was just inserted into the starting line-up. (Sidenote: we all know Jason Terry folds in the big ones - especially back to when he lost in the NCAA Tourney first round on his home floor in Tucson to an Edjuardo Najera-led Oklahoma team... ending with Terry missing an 8-footer at the buzzer... I'm kind of confused why Pop was thinking they should focus on him.)

And to your other point - momentum and pace are two different things... the Suns run-and-gun at a fast pace - putting up a lot of shots and playing lackadaisical defense in order to spur their fast break. Momentum does not depend on pace, but can shift as a result of it - for example, the Suns and Clippers were still playing at a fast pace the whole game, but it wasn't until Elton Brand went out with 7 minutes left in the 4th quarter that the Suns gained momentum and went from 1-pt down to 7-pts up in a matter of minutes, and then rode that momentum to 130 points. So, in the case of the Mavs vs. Spurs, both teams wanted to impose their respective paces on the other (Mavs wanted to speed it up for Game 2, while the Spurs prefer the half-court game). In that scenario, a shift in momentum for the Spurs would have been getting defensive stops and getting their half-court game up and running with tight cuts and sharp passes instead of a lot of the problems they were having with it last night.

Therefore, the momentum shifting plays I refered to above and in my previous post helped the Mavs both maintain their pace and their lead (a lead that forced the Spurs to try and play more to the Mavs style because you can't come back from 20 pts down by running half-court sets until 5 seconds left on the shot clock). You see where I'm going with this? So situations arise, such as a Devin Harris 3-pt play that could have been ruled a charging call (where Ginobili took a shot to the mouth) can result in a potential 5 or 6 point momentum swing depending on how the Spurs would have fared on the next possession and the ones after that (i.e. taking the emotional and homecrowd upswing of getting an offensive foul and running it the other way). Say they hit a 3 on that possession, then the Mavs might be back on their heels... instead, a few plays later Brent Barry is called for a blocking foul that was pretty questionable and the Mavs are riding high. That is the essence of momentum.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

and for those who SAY dirk shouldnt be getting perimeter calls because the guy in the paint will always get fouled....

come on. look at his season avg. He wasn't ALMOST MVP for his style of play. That is why he is so unique.
How was he "almost mvp"? Nash got like, 4 times as many first place votes. Should I congratulate the Mavs on their ALMOST CHAMPIONSHIP after the Spurs knock them the fuck out?

[RonMexico]

How was he "almost mvp"? Nash got like, 4 times as many first place votes. Should I congratulate the Mavs on their ALMOST CHAMPIONSHIP after the Spurs knock them the fuck out?

Although you're a little harsher than I would be, I agree that Nash pretty much destroyed the competition, which is interesting because a lot of people theorized (especially on this board) that he had gotten a lot of 2nd place votes to garner a bunch of points and then win by a smaller margin. I agree that Dirk is unique, but new "MVP candidate" Dirk isn't as exciting or impressive to me as the older one that drove to the hoop with his head down and was not afraid to power his way through... New Dirk likes to sit too much on the perimiter and make seizure-like movements when he drives to the hoop - I'm not sure yet if this is used to distract the opponent or try and draw undue attention to himself from the officiating crew. Old Dirk was quieter on the floor, had a chisled haircut, and wore a lot fewer accessories... New Dirk has this floppy mop, publicly chastises his teammates and officials to show "leadership," and wears an obnoxious elbow pad. Yet, his former teammate and good friend has had much more success since leaving the Mavs and left his appearence and game relatively unchanged... hmmm...

[jmard5]

It's possible that Dirk was getting away with some of his patented Karl Malone-style slap downs and inability to move his feet laterally on defense (see hitting Horry on the head as Dirk is pretty much frozen), because he's not getting the "respect" he deserves at the other end from the officials. I can give you that one, but if he's the Mavs "superstar," then it's a poor trade-off for the Spurs who have to lose Duncan (the Spurs superstar) to his 3rd foul (an offensive foul when the aforementioned Dirk pushed him into Jason Terry, who definitely was outside the circle with good position) - especially when Duncan is the only one playing well for the Spurs at that time. (I'll just mention that Duncan's second foul came on a questionable ticky-tack against Marquis Daniels when Daniels drove to the lane and double-pumped... the same type of call that Dirk got away with on Horry a few plays later.)

Once again, I'm not really discussing the numbers of calls missed, but the situational changes that arose from the inconsistent officiating (i.e. as a Mavs fan, you know that if I said Diop and Dampier would have 2-3 fouls apeice, but Duncan has to sit down with over 5 minutes remaining in the first half with 3 fouls, you would take that in a heartbeat). Likewise, so what if Jason Terry had to go out a few minutes later with his 3rd foul? He's still not your marquee player (Dirk) or your X-factor (Josh Howard) and he's getting outperformed by his backup (Devin Harris) who was just inserted into the starting line-up. (Sidenote: we all know Jason Terry folds in the big ones - especially back to when he lost in the NCAA Tourney first round on his home floor in Tucson to an Edjuardo Najera-led Oklahoma team... ending with Terry missing an 8-footer at the buzzer... I'm kind of confused why Pop was thinking they should focus on him.)

And to your other point - momentum and pace are two different things... the Suns run-and-gun at a fast pace - putting up a lot of shots and playing lackadaisical defense in order to spur their fast break. Momentum does not depend on pace, but can shift as a result of it - for example, the Suns and Clippers were still playing at a fast pace the whole game, but it wasn't until Elton Brand went out with 7 minutes left in the 4th quarter that the Suns gained momentum and went from 1-pt down to 7-pts up in a matter of minutes, and then rode that momentum to 130 points. So, in the case of the Mavs vs. Spurs, both teams wanted to impose their respective paces on the other (Mavs wanted to speed it up for Game 2, while the Spurs prefer the half-court game). In that scenario, a shift in momentum for the Spurs would have been getting defensive stops and getting their half-court game up and running with tight cuts and sharp passes instead of a lot of the problems they were having with it last night.

Therefore, the momentum shifting plays I refered to above and in my previous post helped the Mavs both maintain their pace and their lead (a lead that forced the Spurs to try and play more to the Mavs style because you can't come back from 20 pts down by running half-court sets until 5 seconds left on the shot clock). You see where I'm going with this? So situations arise, such as a Devin Harris 3-pt play that could have been ruled a charging call (where Ginobili took a shot to the mouth) can result in a potential 5 or 6 point momentum swing depending on how the Spurs would have fared on the next possession and the ones after that (i.e. taking the emotional and homecrowd upswing of getting an offensive foul and running it the other way). Say they hit a 3 on that possession, then the Mavs might be back on their heels... instead, a few plays later Brent Barry is called for a blocking foul that was pretty questionable and the Mavs are riding high. That is the essence of momentum.

Hey, I like this RonMexico guy! Pretty good explanation. Props to you sir. :D

[v2freak]

Good points, RM

[Bloodline666]

It may be just the angle the TV camera was pointing at, but I could've sworn I saw Dirk Nowitzki get away with goaltending and not get that called. I could be wrong, though...

[A-Train]

I was most upset with the 2nd foul called on Duncan. After that, the non-call when Nowitzki applied a similiar amount of contact on an Horry drive. The 2nd quarter was the worst officiated period of NBA basketball I've ever seen.

[Bloodline666]

It was not just the supposed goaltending committed by Dirk that set me off. According to the camera's angle, that ball was on its way through the net when Dirk rebounded it. And if I'm not mistaken, even if it hits the rim, if it's on its way through the net, and an offensive player touches it, they lose possession, and if a defensive player touches it, the basket automatically counts (which was supposed to be the case in this non-call; Like I said, I could be wrong, so only those who were at the game could've had a better view of that than me).

Another thing that set me off was Josh Howard pushing Tony Parker off with his off-arm, and TONY getting called for the foul. Now that one was a crystal-clear offensive foul on Howard. We were supposed to get possession on that call.

[mFFL03]

almost MVP? i think what at least being in the top 5 for voting gives one a POSSIBILITY to get an MVP vote, hence ALMOST MVP.

what players were on the ballot from the spurs teams....oh wait non were in the top five, or ten for that matter....20 even? i dont thinkso

[Mr. Peabody]

almost MVP? i think what at least being in the top 5 for voting gives one a POSSIBILITY to get an MVP vote, hence ALMOST MVP.

what players were on the ballot from the spurs teams....oh wait non were in the top five, or ten for that matter....20 even? i dont thinkso

:lol I think you Mavs fans would trade Dirk, #3 in MVP votes, for Duncan, #8 in MVP votes, in a heartbeat.

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

almost MVP? i think what at least being in the top 5 for voting gives one a POSSIBILITY to get an MVP vote, hence ALMOST MVP.

what players were on the ballot from the spurs teams....oh wait non were in the top five, or ten for that matter....20 even? i dont thinkso

Duncan #8, Parker #9. Asshole, how bout knowing what you're talking about before you open your mouth?

[Trainwreck2100]

almost MVP? i think what at least being in the top 5 for voting gives one a POSSIBILITY to get an MVP vote, hence ALMOST MVP.

what players were on the ballot from the spurs teams....oh wait non were in the top five, or ten for that matter....20 even? i dont thinkso


shoulda stopped after top 5

[RonMexico]

Hey, I like this RonMexico guy! Pretty good explanation. Props to you sir. :D


Thanks, man - I'll be here all week (by "week" I mean playoffs) :fro

[Spurologist]

who's the least biased, most consistent, and "fair" ref? Violet Palmer?

That would be Zebra Zack Zarba