Mavs owner Cuban hit with $200K fine from NBA

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

Straight from espn.com........

The NBA fined Mavericks owner Mark Cuban $200,000 for going onto the court in Game 1 of Dallas' series against the Spurs and criticizing league officials on his blog, ESPN's Jim Gray is reporting.

Cuban was fined $100,000 for going onto the court and another $100,000 for writing about how bad the officials are and how to improve playoff officiating on blogmaverick.com.

"The NBA knows all, does all, and far be it for me to question any of this." Cuban told Gray.

Cuban also said that he wrote the article before the playoffs and simply reposted it after Game 1.

Dallas lost 87-85 in Game 1 on Sunday, but rebounded Tuesday night with a 113-91 victory to even the series at one game apiece.

[ducks]

should have been fined and could not go to games

[DarkReign]

asshole...

[cheguevara]

yeah but how much did Cuban pay the refs BEFORE game 2?

[Ginofan]

Well it does make me feel a tinsy bit better right now.

[ShoogarBear]

Money well spent, eh, Cubes?

[leemajors]

then he would probably project his own image on the jumbotrons in the aac to let it be known he was there in spirit ducks. that would be downright scary!

[SA210]

Well it does make me feel a tinsy bit better right now.
Maybe that's why they did it. Screw them.

Refs suck!

[A-Train]

So that's the price of a playoff win.

[RON ARTEST]

why do you guys talk bad about cuban for talking bad about the refs and complaining but you guys comnplain about them all the time. and during the game the spurs whine about every freaking call almost as bad as the pistons. notice i said almost. :lol

[Shank]

Yeah, Mark Cuban PAID for a win. It had nothing to do with your team's play at all. Poor offensive rebounding and an utter lack of hustle had NOTHING to do with it.

Bunch of pussies.

[greyforest]

oh no he lost 0.1% of his wealth

WHAT WILL HE DO NOW? HE CANT BUY THE FERRARI HE WANTED!!!

[Drive Like Jehu]

Yeah, Mark Cuban PAID for a win. It had nothing to do with your team's play at all. Poor offensive rebounding and an utter lack of hustle had NOTHING to do with it.

Bunch of pussies.


There is no need to call Cuban that name even though he paid for a win.

[A-Train]

Yeah, Mark Cuban PAID for a win. It had nothing to do with your team's play at all. Poor offensive rebounding and an utter lack of hustle had NOTHING to do with it.

Bunch of pussies.

eh, shut the fuck up and go fuck your sister.

[ShoogarBear]

Cuban goes above and beyond being an asshole. How many other owners have ever run out onto the court during a game?

[cheguevara]

why do you guys talk bad about cuban for talking bad about the refs and complaining but you guys comnplain about them all the time. and during the game the spurs whine about every freaking call almost as bad as the pistons. notice i said almost. :lol

If u really have to ask why hate Cuban. U've never watched a Mav game.

[ace3g]

yeah but there is a difference between complaining about the refs during the game(which teams have the right to do) and criticizing the refs through the media or sending in tapes or messages to the league showing where refs messed up.

Pop didnt even hence at the fact that the refs were horrible last night during his press conference but you could tell he was PISSED at the refs especially Javie, just the spurs have class and let their game speak for themselves

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Spurs fans whine as much as Cuban does about the refs, what is the difference?

[4001 STEREO SPUR]

yeah but there is a difference between complaining about the refs during the game(which teams have the right to do) and criticizing the refs through the media or sending in tapes or messages to the league showing where refs messed up.

Pop didnt even hence at the fact that the refs were horrible last night during his press conference but you could tell he was PISSED at the refs especially Javie, just the spurs have class and let their game speak for themselves


Correct :tu

[Banks91]

That's weak. Maybe 100g for the coming on the court maybe, but not for that blog.

You guys have read that blog, and you know it isn't worth a 100g fine.

[CosmicCowboy]

*digging in pocket*

*throwing penny in trash can*

I think I just lost more of my net worth than Cuban did...LOL

[A-Train]

Cuban goes above and beyond being an asshole. How many other owners have ever run out onto the court during a game?

He's the quintessential jock sniffer. No doubt he sits behind the bench grabbing all the ass he can...

[Mavs_Man 41]

why doesn't everybody stop whining about one thing or another and just watch a great series....

[ace3g]

Spurs fans whine as much as Cuban does about the refs, what is the difference?


As fans we have the right to complain about Refs, Cuban is a NBA team owner and since he is part of the organization cant openly through the media complain about officiating, trust me I did a huge English project on this topic

[Trainwreck2100]

Spurs fans whine as much as Cuban does about the refs, what is the difference?

We have no affiliation to the team

[Jimcs50]

Money well spent, I think....because it bought him game 2.


:bang


BTW, can not a billionaire afford a decent hair cut???? The man looks like a total dork.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

*digging in pocket*

*throwing penny in trash can*

I think I just lost more of my net worth than Cuban did...LOL

:lmao

You and me both!

[Shank]

eh, shut the fuck up and go fuck your sister.

Stock Spurs fan. All class, all the time. How about a "Javie sucks" chant while you're at it? Fucking sore loser.

[DarrinS]

Mark Cuban and Donald Trump are VERY wealthy men.


Why can't they afford a decent haircut? Or, hairpiece?

[KingsFanWithoutName]

As fans we have the right to complain about Refs, Cuban is a NBA team owner and since he is part of the organization cant openly through the media complain about officiating, trust me I did a huge English project on this topic
Well he can openly complain, and he does. The fines don't bother him one bit. Looks like his complaining may have actually done some good. :lol

[Shank]

Answer this simple question -

Is Mark Cuban good for the game? Yes or no.

[Jimcs50]

Stock Spurs fan. All class, all the time. How about a "Javie sucks" chant while you're at it? Fucking sore loser.

I loved that chant...I wish I were there.

:lol

[Trainwreck2100]

Stock Spurs fan. All class, all the time. How about a "Javie sucks" chant while you're at it? Fucking sore loser.

Actually there were a majority of chants, the only real syncronised part was the sucks.

[leemajors]

Stock Spurs fan. All class, all the time. How about a "Javie sucks" chant while you're at it? Fucking sore loser.

stock stereotyper. pick one post out of a thread and generalize about every spur fan. i liked it better when you were bashing the ticket.

[Jimcs50]

Answer this simple question -

Is Mark Cuban good for the game? Yes or no.


NO!!!!!

[Trainwreck2100]

Well he can openly complain, and he does. The fines don't bother him one bit. Looks like his complaining may have actually done some good. :lol

He should have learned a long time ago DON'T PISS OFF STERN.

[FromWayDowntown]

Stock Spurs fan. All class, all the time. How about a "Javie sucks" chant while you're at it? Fucking sore loser.

Of course, because we all know that all Mavericks fans are all class, all the time; no Mavericks fan ever complains about anything -- or, are you saying that complaints from all Mavericks' fans are always justified and they never, ever look to make excuses for that team.





For the record, I think some Mavericks fans are class acts and some Mavericks fans are complete jackasses; just as I think some Spurs fans are class acts and some Spurs fans are complete jackasses.

[ace3g]

Well he can openly complain, and he does. The fines don't bother him one bit. Looks like his complaining may have actually done some good. :lol

Actually he cant openly complain, hence the reason why he is fined, it is in the NBA rule book, "no person affiliated with an NBA team can publicly criticize any NBA official or referree"

yes he can get away with it because he is so rich but he is still breaking an NBA rule by criticizing the officials

[efrem1]

Straight from espn.com........

The NBA fined Mavericks owner Mark Cuban $200,000 for going onto the court in Game 1 of Dallas' series against the Spurs and criticizing league officials on his blog, ESPN's Jim Gray is reporting.



Bus fare. :drunk

[Shank]

stock stereotyper. pick one post out of a thread and generalize about every spur fan. i liked it better when you were bashing the ticket.

Have any of the Mavs fans on here responded with "fuck your sister" instead of giving a viable retort? Answer that.

[A-Train]

Stock Spurs fan. All class, all the time. How about a "Javie sucks" chant while you're at it? Fucking sore loser.

Apparently it's "all class" to refer to someone as a 'pussy'. Even you cannot be this stupid.

[leemajors]

Have any of the Mavs fans on here responded with "fuck your sister" instead of giving a viable retort? Answer that.

well, yes, some have responded like that in the past. maybe not that exact syntax, but the message was the same. does that really matter?

[Shank]

Apparently it's "all class" to refer to someone as a 'pussy'. Even you cannot be this stupid.

I'm sorry - I should have responded with "go fuck your sister". You've got nothing, fat boy. Why don't you bitch about the refs a little more for all of us? Your tears are delicious.

[Trainwreck2100]

Have any of the Mavs fans on here responded with "fuck your sister" instead of giving a viable retort? Answer that.

:lol Fucking newbs

[Trainwreck2100]

Bus fare. :drunk


He is literraly buying a bus.

[LEONARD]

LMAO...Cuban is the man... :fro

[ShoogarBear]

Answer this simple question -

Is Mark Cuban good for the game? Yes or no.
Easy answer, no.

Would you want all 30 owners acting like children, running onto the court, whining daily in their personal blogs, and otherwise actively trying to draw attention away from the game and onto themselves?

He does some good things. But the game did fine before he came along and it'll do better long after he's gone.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Actually he cant openly complain, hence the reason why he is fined, it is in the NBA rule book, "no person affiliated with an NBA team can publicly criticize any NBA official or referree"

yes he can get away with it because he is so rich but he is still breaking an NBA rule by criticizing the officials
My point was he can openly complain because he wipes his ass with that fine money.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

Mark Cuban and Donald Trump are VERY wealthy men.


Why can't they afford a decent haircut? Or, hairpiece?

Don't forget to throw Bill Gates in that group!
:nutkick:

[picnroll]

Spurs fans whine as much as Cuban does about the refs, what is the difference?
I guess one difference is that if I run out on the court during a game to harangue the refs I ges my ass kicked by some security guy, fined, maybe thrown in jail and banned form future games. How about equal treatment for CUban?

[DarrinS]

LMAO...Cuban is the man... :fro


Cuban sucks and so does Jerry Jones. Why do the biggest egomaniac coaches go to Dallas? These guys think they know their sports better than anyone else -- WRONG. Keep your dork-looking ass in the owner's box where you belong.

Well, at least Jerry "Skeletor" Jones has won something.

[cheguevara]

http://www.geocities.com/chrisfoley484/SPMarkCuban.gif

[picnroll]

Cuban is a new money asshole like most of the rich from Dallas.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

http://www.geocities.com/chrisfoley484/SPMarkCuban.gif

:rollin :lmao

[Shank]

http://www.utexas.edu/supportut/news_pub/images/mccombs_red.jpg

http://www.stlux.com/uploaded_images/kane4-727541.jpg

[Mavtek]

I knew this would make all the Spurs fans feel better! How will you feel if your team is down 3-1 coming back home? Glad you can take solace in this though!! Thanks Cuban for distracting the Spurs fans, I hope your doing the same to the Spurs themselves!

[Kori Ellis]

http://www.utexas.edu/supportut/news_pub/images/mccombs_red.jpg

http://www.stlux.com/uploaded_images/kane4-727541.jpg

If Red McCombs was the Spurs owner, it might be funny.

[gospurs21209]

are mav fans stupid..... go to mavtalk.com or dallas-mavs.com and look at the thread for game 1..... mav fans were crying like little bitches. dont come in here and tell us we cry because mav fans cry just as much or more..... and POP and all the Spurs players have too much class to bitch about the refs.....(AVERY JOHNSON) and we dont send in VIDEOS to the league after every game we lose to see if we got screwed on any fouls..... talk about pussies mav fans

[A-Train]

http://www.utexas.edu/supportut/news_pub/images/mccombs_red.jpg

http://www.stlux.com/uploaded_images/kane4-727541.jpg


Psst...McCombs hasn't owned the team since 1993. Dumbass.

[A-Train]

I'm sorry - I should have responded with "go fuck your sister". You've got nothing, fat boy. Why don't you bitch about the refs a little more for all of us? Your tears are delicious.

:lol We have a live one here.

Tears? What do you know about tears? Wow, a loss in the conference semifinals. Oh no. Mav Fan is such a playoff virgin.

[Shank]

Who the fuck is Peter Holt?

[Trainwreck2100]

http://www.utexas.edu/supportut/news_pub/images/mccombs_red.jpg

http://www.stlux.com/uploaded_images/kane4-727541.jpg

No way, someone from years ago that hasn't owned the Spurs for 10+ years. I do miss the Hemisfare Arena though. At least do the smart thing and make fun of Holt's drinking problem instead of someone from years ago.

[Mavtek]

are mav fans stupid..... go to mavtalk.com or dallas-mavs.com and look at the thread for game 1..... mav fans were crying like little bitches. dont come in here and tell us we cry because mav fans cry just as much or more..... and POP and all the Spurs players have too much class to bitch about the refs.....(AVERY JOHNSON) and we dont send in VIDEOS to the league after every game we lose to see if we got screwed on any fouls..... talk about pussies mav fans

I've never sent any tapes to the league??

[Trainwreck2100]

Who the fuck is Peter Holt?


I hope to God you are being facetious, or you are the worst smack guy in history

[A-Train]

Who the fuck is Peter Holt?

It's not surprising you should ask that question. Man, go wash down your trailer or put your car up on cinder blocks.

[gospurs21209]

your owner MARK CUBAN sends tapes to the league after every loss..... it was on ESPN a while back

[DubMcDub]

Money well spent, I think....because it bought him game 2.


:bang


BTW, can not a billionaire afford a decent hair cut???? The man looks like a total dork.

You sound like a Lakers fan.

Pathetic. The refs must have a lot more influence than I thought if they were capable of making your entire team except Duncan suck complete ass all game.

[leemajors]

well. holt does have a ranch but doesn't look like that. i know his ranch manager, he's a really nice guy.

http://www.theholtcompanies.com/

[ShoogarBear]

Who the fuck is Peter Holt?
A guy with three more rings and a bazillion more class than Mark Cuban.

[gospurs21209]

mav fans are immature when it comes to deep playoff runs..... so i dont expect any of them to say something smart

[Shank]

I hope to God you are being facetious, or you are the worst smack guy in history

I'm pointing out that the Mavs owner has made himself visible and has become a celebrity of sorts. Most fans would rather have their owner show their passion for the team than worry about how much money they're making. It's good to have him on the sidelines, rooting for the team.

In the years since Cuban has owned the team, how much profit has he made from the Mavericks? It's a trick question.

[gingko]

(AVERY JOHNSON) and we dont send in VIDEOS to the league after every game we lose to see if we got screwed on any fouls..... talk about pussies mav fans

All teams send in calls they are unsure of. In fact, the NBA has a website set up specifically for this. The Mavs are not the only ones, and most teams do it every game, win or lose.

[leemajors]

I'm pointing out that the Mavs owner has made himself visible and has become a celebrity of sorts. Most fans would rather have their owner show their passion for the team than worry about how much money they're making. It's good to have him on the sidelines, rooting for the team.

In the years since Cuban has owned the team, how much profit has he made from the Mavericks? It's a trick question.

none or little, he is just now breaking even. i don't think he bought the mavs as a moneymaking venture.

[DubMcDub]

mav fans are immature when it comes to deep playoff runs..... so i dont expect any of them to say something smart

You're calling Mavs fans immature in a thread where numerous Spurs fans have claimed that Mark Cuban BOUGHT a Game 2 victory?

Irony. Look it up.

[gospurs21209]

ok gingko..... you may be right. but POP never complains about the refs in public..... AVERY and CUBAN are really good at complaining to the public

[gingko]

Actually he cant openly complain, hence the reason why he is fined, it is in the NBA rule book, "no person affiliated with an NBA team can publicly criticize any NBA official or referree"

That's an interesting rule the way it is stated because his actual blog for which he was fined does not criticize a specific official or ref - the point is more to improving the overall level of reffing in the league. Those Spurs fans chanting last night would seem to want the same goal.

Here is what he actually wrote - is this $100k fine worthy?

www.blogmaverick.com

"How to improve NBA Playoff Officiating
Posted May 7, 2006, 5:30 PM ET

Note:This was written BEFORE the playoffs started. It wasnt posted till after I had presented this to the league. I stand corrected on the lack of 4 games in a night. There have been. THat doesnt change the validity of the concept. Rather than using the playoffs as an opportunity to promote officials, it should be where only the very best officials work.

I have also turned off comments because as I feared, they end up being off topic.

Here is the post:

Refs miss calls. Its part of the game. Better refs that approach the game objectively miss fewer calls.

During the regular season new refs will come into the league and as might be expected, there will be ups and downs that come with new officials.

The playoffs are different. THe playoffs are where teams and the NBA itself earn their money. Its where team profits are made, its where TV ratings are made and when TV ratings are good, the league makes more money.

In other words, the playoffs are our money product. As with every business, the best people should be on the job with the money products. Thats not the way the NBA does it when it comes to officials.

In the first round, the NBA reduces the number of officials elgible to officiate games from about 60 to 33 (give or take a couple). The first question is how did they arrive at that number ? I dont know, but I can calculate how many officials are actually needed.

In the first round, there 4 series in each conference or 8 series in total.

But the thing about the first round is that the games are spread out. There rarely if ever are 4 games in a single night. ( it hasnt happened since i have been here). The most I have seen is 3 games in a night. 3 games in a night is 9 officials.

But when you look at the schedule further, you realize that because of time zones and TV needs, you never get more than 2 games in the same time zone. Which means that its not unreasonable to ask officials to work games on back to back nights in the first round of the playoffs. THey can travel to the next assigned game in the same or at worst adjoining time zone. Because of the spread out schedule, its unlikely they would work back to backs more than twice in the first round.

So in the first round alone, the number of officials that should be assigned could be as few as 9, plus 3 alternates.

Would the officiating improve if the top 12 officials worked the games instead of the top 33 or so. There is absolutely no question about it.

Would it strain the officials more to possibly work a back to back ? Yes. So pay them a bigger bonus for being selected for the playoffs. Its certainly no more a strain on the officals than it is the players and we have no problem asking players to work back to back.

The numbers get better for the 2nd round. 4 series. 2 games in a day. Sometimes 1 game in a day. Thats 6 officials plus alternates. If the league was absolutely convinced we have 12 finals quality officials, then use 12

But the NBA has a huge problem. It doesnt view the playoffs as a place where the very best of the best of officials go to work. It views the playoffs as part of a reward system for officials. YOu get promoted to the playoffs. Its not unusual to see an official work a single playoff game in the first round . In fact, if the info i have is correct, there are officials who havent even been promoted to full time crew cheif who get playoff assignments. How crazy is that ?

Thats also a huge, huge, huge business mistake. The playoffs are our most important, most visible product. They should never be used as a stepping stone for promotion.

Instead, the NBA should rank its officials, seed them if you will. Top 12 get playoff assignments. Thats it. If an official does a great job and rises to the top 12, he or she gets the reward. If not, not.

Giving less qualified officials an opportunity to officiate playoff games as a reward gives the official a nice attaboy, but it risks the quality of our product.

It makes absolutely no sense to do it the way it is currently done. If the league wants the best officiating in every game, only use the best officials. Anything less cheats us all."

[ShoogarBear]

I'm pointing out that the Mavs owner has made himself visible and has become a celebrity of sorts. Most fans would rather have their owner show their passion for the team than worry about how much money they're making. It's good to have him on the sidelines, rooting for the team.

In the years since Cuban has owned the team, how much profit has he made from the Mavericks? It's a trick question.
See, now we clearly delineate our differences.

Important to Mav fans:
-visible celebrity owner
-owner on sidelines rooting for team
-Ashlee's latest CD
-good wax job on the Tahoe

Important to Spur fans:
http://www.phoons.com/images/spurs.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

ok gingko..... you may be right. but POP never complains about the refs in public..... AVERY and CUBAN are really good at complaining to the public

Cuban may be a whiner but AJ isn't.

[gospurs21209]

mav fans are immature when it comes to the BIG BOY rounds of the playoffs..... mav fans come on here thinking they have won the series..... big mistake. Spurs are pissed and they will be ready come saturday

[gospurs21209]

Avery already whined to the refs in this series CosmicCowboy..... the BOWEN "BEAR HUG" defense

[picnroll]

I'm pointing out that the Mavs owner has made himself visible and has become a celebrity of sorts.
He and Paris Hilton have a lot in common.

[ShoogarBear]

He and Paris Hilton have a lot in common.
Don't tell me Cuban actually made a tape?

[Shank]

Spurs are pissed and they will be ready come saturday

And you would know this how?

[CosmicCowboy]

give me a break. That wasn't a whine...some of you are going way too far on that one...it was a descriptive phrase about stifling defense...if he had said that Bowen put a "lock down" defense on Dirk you guys would have said he was whining that Bruce used handcuffs...

[leemajors]

And you would know this how?

i would assume they weren't happy about losing.

[mabber]

why do you guys talk bad about cuban for talking bad about the refs and complaining but you guys comnplain about them all the time. and during the game the spurs whine about every freaking call almost as bad as the pistons. notice i said almost. :lol

Cuz Cuban is an easy target and it appears a lot of these Spur fans need to point fingers at everyone except their own team after a loss.

[gospurs21209]

Spurs very rarely ever have two bad games in a row..... they will come out strong like they always do after a loss.

[Kori Ellis]

give me a break. That wasn't a whine...some of you are going way too far on that one...it was a descriptive phrase about stifling defense...if he had said that Bowen put a "lock down" defense on Dirk you guys would have said he was whining that Bruce used handcuffs...

I don't think it's the "bear hug" comment exactly that people consider whining. It's the follow up sarcasm of (paraphrasing) "it's the new rule in the NBA, we'll have to find a way to defend it" while rolling his eyes.

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't tell me Cuban actually made a tape?
:vomit:

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

Don't tell me Cuban actually made a tape?

*shudders at the thought*

:vomit:

[DubMcDub]

mav fans are immature when it comes to the BIG BOY rounds of the playoffs..... mav fans come on here thinking they have won the series..... big mistake. Spurs are pissed and they will be ready come saturday

When did anybody say we won the series?

I must have missed it. Kindly point me to where such a claim was made. All I see is people saying that the Mavericks ran the defending champions out of their own gym last night to the tune of 22 points....

[A-Train]

When did anybody say we won the series?

I must have missed it. Kindly point me to where such a claim was made. All I see is people saying that the Mavericks ran the defending champions out of their own gym last night to the tune of 22 points....

What I see is Mav Fan acting like they won a championship. Not surprising.

[gingko]

I think most mavs fans really appreciate Mark's passion. His methods are often not what we would expect, but we are encouraged that his goals are to 1) Win an NBA championship & 2) Make the NBA product better. Lifetime Mavs fans point of comparison was years of disinterested ownership and decades of losing. Putting up with Mark's quirks is better than what we used to have to put up with.
He has toned it down, but rightfully so, his reputation follows him. If he had no history, there is no way his blog gets a $100k fine.

[Trainwreck2100]

give me a break. That wasn't a whine...some of you are going way too far on that one...it was a descriptive phrase about stifling defense...if he had said that Bowen put a "lock down" defense on Dirk you guys would have said he was whining that Bruce used handcuffs...

You actually bought that as a shot at his own team? He was bitching, he's the enemy, Gino should don the #6 from here on out.

[Shank]

What I see is Mav Fan acting like they won a championship. Not surprising.

Really? Where?

What I see is Spur Fan crying like a bitch and avoiding what really did their team in last night.

[gingko]

If you consider the bear hug defense as whining, you are looking way to hard.

[Kori Ellis]

Really? Where?

What I see is Spur Fan crying like a bitch and avoiding what really did their team in last night.

I don't see that. I don't think anyone actually thinks the Spurs lost because of the officiating. A lot of the calls sucked (on both sides) but the Spurs lost because Tim Duncan didn't get any help and the Mavs capitalized on the Spurs turnovers and mistakes. The Spurs got outplayed. That's it.

[Trainwreck2100]

If you consider the bear hug defense as whining, you are looking way to hard.

Then what was it mr. bulls fan

[A-Train]

Really? Where?

What I see is Spur Fan crying like a bitch and avoiding what really did their team in last night.

You, for starters. It's not surprising. It's why you run to this forum and attempt to make up for your shitty life by spamming this forum with your tripe.

[picnroll]

What is this myth that AJ doesn't whine. I've seen him on ESPN, NBA TV whining his ass off. You don't remember his bitching crusade about how Dirk was getting abused and never getting the calls? That wasn't his only bitchfest either. Some's love for AJ has made them go blind.

[DubMcDub]

What I see is Mav Fan acting like they won a championship. Not surprising.

Again, no.

This is not acting like the Mavs have won a championship. This is acting like the Mavs won a single game, and that single game involved embarrassing the defending NBA champions on their own home court in an absolute blowout.

I have no idea where in the hell you get off saying that this is "acting like they won a championship". Again, the prominent elitist attitude by Spurs fans on these boards that people aren't allowed to celebrate single game victories is ridiculous--you guys celebrate single game victories ALL THE TIME.

[Shank]

I don't see that. I don't think anyone actually thinks the Spurs lost because of the officiating. A lot of the calls sucked (on both sides) but the Spurs lost because Tim Duncan didn't get any help and the Mavs capitalized on the Spurs turnovers and mistakes. The Spurs got outplayed. That's it.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40688

7 pages worth right here.

[A-Train]

Mav Fan is new money, new to basketball and new to the playoffs. Easily excitable, generally ignorant, and most likely to be fucking some big-haired bitch named Flo.

[sixeightmkw]

Why was Timmy complaining then?

While Popovich said the officiating "had nothing to do with it," Duncan wasn't that politically correct.

"The whistle was going crazy left and right," he said of the second quarter.

[Kori Ellis]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40688

7 pages worth right here.

No.

A lot of people in that thread are complaining about the calls. But not saying that the calls cost the Spurs the game.

[A-Train]

Again, no.

This is not acting like the Mavs have won a championship. This is acting like the Mavs won a single game, and that single game involved embarrassing the defending NBA champions on their own home court in an absolute blowout.

I have no idea where in the hell you get off saying that this is "acting like they won a championship". Again, the prominent elitist attitude by Spurs fans on these boards that people aren't allowed to celebrate single game victories is ridiculous--you guys celebrate single game victories ALL THE TIME.


Yeah, we celebrate wins. We don't go into someone else's forum after a win and run our mouths. That's the province of trash like yourself.

[DubMcDub]

Mav Fan is new money, new to basketball and new to the playoffs. Easily excitable, generally ignorant, and most likely to be fucking some big-haired bitch named Flo.

This one was doomed from the start.

[Trainwreck2100]

Really? Where?



All Spurs fans need to pray to God on their knees for the next 3 days that he heals TP and Manu before then. If not, the Spurs are dead in the water. If you expect Udrih or NVE to take his spot over and produce like TP does, your terrribly mistaken.

Here's one

[J.T.]

I have no idea where in the hell you get off saying that this is "acting like they won a championship". Again, the prominent elitist attitude by Spurs fans on these boards that people aren't allowed to celebrate single game victories is ridiculous--you guys celebrate single game victories ALL THE TIME.

It's a Spurs forum you fucking idiot.

[Shank]

Don't worry about A-Train. He's an Internet tough guy.

[Kori Ellis]

Here's one

:lol

That post was true. If Manu and Tony aren't in better shape, the Spurs won't win the series.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It's a Spurs forum you fucking idiot.

I resemble that remark...

It's my Pistons forum...

[DubMcDub]

Yeah, we celebrate wins. We don't go into someone else's forum after a win and run our mouths. That's the province of trash like yourself.

Quit whining. Last I checked this is a public forum. If you guys don't want fans of opposing teams in here, make a private discussion area exclusively for "verified" Spurs fans where you all can fellate each other all day in a circle around your 3 championship trophies.

Until then, I'm afraid you may just have to accept the fact that you're going to have opposing teams' fans on this board.

[A-Train]

Don't worry about A-Train. He's an Internet tough guy.

Nah, you're the toughest.

[Kori Ellis]

I resemble that remark...

It's my Pistons forum...

:lol

That's true. It's funny that there's a big group of Pistons fans that this Spurs forum IS their Pistons forum.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't think it's the "bear hug" comment exactly that people consider whining. It's the follow up sarcasm of (paraphrasing) "it's the new rule in the NBA, we'll have to find a way to defend it" while rolling his eyes.

hehehe...Avery would know about "new rules" in the NBA...it was the hand check rule that basically ended his career...

[Shank]

Nah, you're the toughest.

:angel

I love you too, sweetpants.

[A-Train]

Quit whining. Last I checked this is a public forum. If you guys don't want fans of opposing teams in here, make a private discussion area exclusively for "verified" Spurs fans where you all can fellate each other all day in a circle around your 3 championship trophies.

You say that like it's a bad thing.




Until then, I'm afraid you may just have to accept the fact that the Mavs fans on this board are here to stay.

Oh no. I get to watch Mavs fans make idiots out of themselves again and again? Can't wait.

[Trainwreck2100]

I resemble that remark...

It's my Pistons forum...


:depressed

[picnroll]

Quit whining. Last I checked this is a public forum. If you guys don't want fans of opposing teams in here, make a private discussion area exclusively for "verified" Spurs fans where you all can fellate each other all day in a circle around your 3 championship trophies.

Until then, I'm afraid you may just have to accept the fact that you're going to have opposing teams' fans on this board.
Last I checked Kori or LJ can ban your ass if you bring nothig to the discussion. So far I'd say you need to pick up the pace.

[A-Train]

Mavs fan has championship envy like a motherfucker.

[Trainwreck2100]

Quit whining. Last I checked this is a public forum. If you guys don't want fans of opposing teams in here, make a private discussion area exclusively for "verified" Spurs fans where you all can fellate each other all day in a circle around your 3 championship trophies.



There is a place like that, it's called spursreport

[bdubya]

The NBA fined Mavericks owner Mark Cuban $200,000 for going onto the court


About goddamn time. I've wondered why they don't throw his ass out of the building when he does that.

[Reggie Miller]

Is Cuban good for the NBA?

Maybe. Someone in a prominent position needs to address the mess that officiating has become. (Part of the problem is the stupid new rule emphases of the last 5-6 years.) Obviously, the league ain't listening to me.

However, what people like Cuban seem to forget is this: You can't shame irrational, egotistical, megalomaniancs. (He should know, after all.) Do you seriously think someone like Bavetta or Crawford would ever admit their bias, pull their heads out of their asses, and just call a decent, fair game? Or do you think it is more likely that they will hold a grudge, continue to think of themsleves as THE SHOW, and generally make the NBA unwatchable? Hmmmnn....

Did anything Cuban did merit $100K?

Two separate fines; two separate issues.

You can't go out on the floor, period. Just like players can't go in the stands, period. There's a line there, and crossing it should have some real penalties. I wouldn't pretend to know if there is a precedent for the amount, however. As others pointed out, a "civilian" would probably get a few kicks in the ribs and a night in jail (or 30) for their pains.

NOTHING in that blog merits a $100K fine. I even agree with most of it. (I am not naive enough to think that basketball lends itself to consistent officiating. Too many bodies on the floor; too much going on.) At some point, Stern crossed the line between slapping down a loudmouth and usurping the rights of a U.S. citizen. The NBA rules don't trump the First Amendment. Anyone that wants to trot out the "rules" needs to repeat their civics class.

[Kori Ellis]

To the Mavs fans' defense, their own forums aren't very active -- so it's logical that they come to the best NBA forum on the net :lol to talk their smack with Spurs fans. So far, some of them are pretty weak in the smack department, but hey .. maybe they'll step up their A game like their team did yesterday. Envy is what it's all about. Remember the years before 1999 Championship? Spurs fans probably got pretty cocky and obnoxious on the road to that title too. Right now after the Mavs big win, their fans are a little excited and it's making some of them a little stupid.

But hey, Spurs fans get excited too.. remember the Kings' Gone Fishing thread that some dumbass Spurs fan made when the Spurs were up 2-0 on Sac? Then everyone crashed down to earth when the series was tied up 2-2.

Anyway, the Spurs and Mavs are both really good. My opinion is that the Spurs are better.

But we'll see. That's why they play the games.

Spurs In Six.

[mabber]

Mavs fan has championship envy like a motherfucker.

You got that right. I want a championship in the worst way. I'll pull for the Spurs if the Mavs lose this series though. Having Finley win a championship would be the next best thing.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, they deserve to enjoy themselves today and as far as I am concerned they are totally welcome in our forums. Mavs put an awful ass whoopin on the Spurs last night. These guys haven't watched the Spurs all year like we have so they can be somewhat forgiven for thinking they are gonna blow through this round without any real resistance from the Spurs. Everyone not named Tim Duncan has been mediocre to awful in the first two games. They think that will continue. I don't. we will see. Thats why they play the games.

[BigD1]

yeah but how much did Cuban pay the refs BEFORE game 2?
You only wish the Spurs lost cause of the refs.

[A-Train]

The strangest thing is that Piston fans have been up in here all season long and there's been nothing but relative harmony. Mav Fan has been nothing but a minor irritant all season in this forum. Generally weak basketball takes, no class and no sense of what the ir team has actually accomplished in the league relative to their raving drivel.

[J.T.]

I am pretty sure we will split the two road games, if not take both of them. Definitely Game 3. People seem to forget we had the best road record this year and one of those road wins was at the AAC. I hate to say it this early but Game 3 is a must win.

Good to see Cubes getting owned by the NBA, now if Stern would just tell refs to toss him when he does it in the future... I don't know how much more I can take of his ugly haircut in this series.

[Kori Ellis]

The strangest thing is that Piston fans have been up in here all season long and there's been nothing but relative harmony. Mav Fan has been nothing but a minor irritant all season in this forum. Generally weak basketball takes, no class and no sense of what the ir team has actually accomplished in the league relative to their raving drivel.


But you see, when the Pistons fans arrived last season in the playoffs, a lot of them were obnoxious dumbasses too :lol Maybe the Mavs fans will follow suit.

[picnroll]

If Cuban didn't own the Mavs I'd pull for them if they beat the SPurs, but as long as that asshole is the owner no way.

[FromWayDowntown]

NOTHING in that blog merits a $100K fine. I even agree with most of it. (I am not naive enough to think that basketball lends itself to consistent officiating. Too many bodies on the floor; too much going on.) At some point, Stern crossed the line between slapping down a loudmouth and usurping the rights of a U.S. citizen. The NBA rules don't trump the First Amendment. Anyone that wants to trot out the "rules" needs to repeat their civics class.

You can agree with Cuban's argument -- I don't, for reasons stated at length in a different post dealing directly with that blog entry -- but Cuban has no First Amendment rights in NBA terms. The NBA is a private entity. It can fine Mark Cuban as much money as it wishes or wholly shut him up if it so chooses. The First Amendment applies to prevent the government from limiting free speech. The NBA is not the government.

Civics class, indeed.

[CosmicCowboy]

damn Kori...apparently great minds think alike...we said basically the same thing at the same time...LOL

[DubMcDub]

Last I checked Kori or LJ can ban your ass if you bring nothig to the discussion. So far I'd say you need to pick up the pace.

I contribute plenty to the discussion when there's a worthwhile discussion to be had.

But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy calling out Spurs fans here who get all uppity about the fact that it's a Spurs board. As Kori said, there's not much alternative. MavTalk isn't very good. If this isn't the best NBA team message board, it's at least up there.

As for jealousy...it has nothing to do with that. I'd say it's a bit pretentious and egotistical to assume other teams' fans are jealous of you--it's not like any of you won an NBA title yourselves.

[leemajors]

You can agree with Cuban's argument -- I don't, for reasons stated at length in a different post dealing directly with that blog entry -- but Cuban has no First Amendment rights in NBA terms. The NBA is a private entity. It can fine Mark Cuban as much money as it wishes or wholly shut him up if it so chooses. The First Amendment applies to prevent the government from limiting free speech. The NBA is not the government.

Civics class, indeed.

true, true. same reason the Masters can exclude women to their heart's content.

[ponky]

then he would probably project his own image on the jumbotrons in the aac to let it be known he was there in spirit ducks. that would be downright scary!

Oh don't you worry, it will be scary enough for you guys at the AAC. On a different note, I can understand the fine for walking onto the court (idiot!) but the fine for the blog is stupid.

[A-Train]

Oh don't you worry, it will be scary enough for you guys at the AAC. On a different note, I can understand the fine for walking onto the court (idiot!) but the fine for the blog is stupid.

Scary?

Mav Fan is such a playoff virgin.

[Reggie Miller]

Actually, private organizations have limits when it comes to Federally protected rights. The Warren Court's interpretation of the 14th Amendment and commerce clause were intended to insure this. Even in NBA terms, there are limits.

By your argument, indentured servitude would be legal if someone were stupid enough to contract to it. Private agreement, right?

[DubMcDub]

Scary?

Mav Fan is such a playoff virgin.

And yet your team looked scared in their OWN arena last night.

[CosmicCowboy]

The strangest thing is that Piston fans have been up in here all season long and there's been nothing but relative harmony. Mav Fan has been nothing but a minor irritant all season in this forum. Generally weak basketball takes, no class and no sense of what the ir team has actually accomplished in the league relative to their raving drivel.

I am actually sick of Spurs fans talking smack about the 3 O'Briens vs. none with Dallas. Pop said it best. That was last years team that won the trophy. This is a new year and a different team. It all starts over even. If banners hanging in the rafters made a fucking bit of difference the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls wouldn't be fishing.

[Trainwreck2100]

Oh don't you worry, it will be scary enough for you guys at the AAC. On a different note, I can understand the fine for walking onto the court (idiot!) but the fine for the blog is stupid.

Maybe, if they weren't the best road team in the league

[picnroll]

I contribute plenty to the discussion when there's a worthwhile discussion to be had.
As for jealousy...it has nothing to do with that. I'd say it's a bit pretentious and egotistical to assume other teams' fans are jealous of you--it's not like any of you won an NBA title yourselves.
I don't buy into the jealousy bit. Hostiltiy at getting beat down by the Spurs year after year, likely. I know many Spurs fans, myself included, felt that way about some teams in the past until the Spurs were able to break through. Personally I think the Spurs took a few bad calls last night but mostly they just stunk up the AT&T center. Manu sucked. He has for a while most games. Parker sucked but he's banged up. If they don't pick it up then they'll be fishing.

That said what I don't like is Cuban in the least. Someone asked if he's good for the game. I say he's horriblle for the game unless you want to turn the NBA into something with no credibility whatsoever. And the hypocrisy of that guy makes me sick. For that reason the last team in the league I want to see win a title is the Mavs.

[J.T.]

Mav Fan brain
http://www.theory.org/~matt/digest/sample_image_collection/homer.jpg

[A-Train]

And yet your team looked scared in their OWN arena last night.

Mav fan has much to learn.

[A-Train]

I am actually sick of Spurs fans talking smack about the 3 O'Briens vs. none with Dallas. Pop said it best. That was last years team that won the trophy. This is a new year and a different team. It all starts over even. If banners hanging in the rafters made a fucking bit of difference the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls wouldn't be fishing.

I don't believe I could ever grow tired of Spurs fans talking about 3 championships. Anyways, I only comment on them once Mav fan's championship envy takes over and they bring 'em up.

[ponky]

Mav Fan brain
http://www.theory.org/~matt/digest/sample_image_collection/homer.jpg


It's not our brains, it's our HEARTS baby, something your team doesn't have right now.

[DubMcDub]

I don't but into the jealousy bit. Hostiltiy at getting beat down by the Spurs year after year, likely. I know Spurs fans, myself included, felt that way about some teams in the past until the Spurs were able to break through. Personllay I think the Spurs took a few bad calls last noght but mostlyy they just stunk up the AT&T center. Manu sucked. He has for a while most games. parker sucked but he's banged up. If they don't pick it up then they'll be fishing.

That said what I don't like is Cuban in the least. Someone asked if he's good for the game. I say he's horriblle for the game unless you want to turn the NBA into something with no credibility whatsoever. And the hypocrisy of that guy makes me sick. For that reason the last team in the league I want to see win a title is the Mavs.

To respond to the first part, hostility is definitely there because it's an in-state rivalry. This goes along with what was said a bit earlier about how Pistons fans seem to be more civil--they seem to be more civil because they aren't long-standing rivals and geographically close to the Spurs.

It's all perceptive. Mavs and Spurs fans feel much more mutually threatened by each other than they do by other teams simply because the opposition is "closer to home".

Jealousy, though? Like I said, there's nothing to be jealous of in regard to the fans. I admire the fact that your team has 3 trophies, but for someone to assume that means somehow jealous of your fanbase personally is ludicrous.

As for Cuban, I've met and spoken with him personally. He is a genuinely nice guy, and very intelligent. I can see why he gets on other teams' fans nerves, but honestly he's a much more decent person than a lot of people I meet on a day to day basis...so he has my respect.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't believe I could ever grow tired of Spurs fans talking about 3 championships. Anyways, I only comment on them once Mav fan's championship envy takes over and they bring 'em up.

NBA teams run in cycles. Spurs have been incredibly lucky to have a long run of excellence based on some fortuitous drafts. Show a little class while we are on "top"...we won't always be there.

[A-Train]

To respond to the first part, hostility is definitely there because it's an in-state rivalry. This goes along with what was said a bit earlier about how Pistons fans seem to be more civil--they seem to be more civil because they aren't long-standing rivals and geographically close to the Spurs.

It's all perceptive. Mavs and Spurs fans feel much more mutually threatened by each other than they do by other teams simply because the opposition is "closer to home".

Jealousy, though? Like I said, there's nothing to be jealous of in regard to the fans. I admire the fact that your team has 3 trophies, but for someone to assume that means somehow jealous of your fanbase personally is ludicrous.


The feeling's quite mutual.



As for Cuban, I've met and spoken with him personally. He is a genuinely nice guy, and very intelligent. I can see why he gets on other teams' fans nerves, but honestly he's a much more decent person than a lot of people I meet on a day to day basis...so he has my respect.

Was that before or after he propositioned you?

[A-Train]

NBA teams run in cycles. Spurs have been incredibly lucky to have a long run of excellence based on some fortuitous drafts. Show a little class while we are on "top"...we won't always be there.

Well, the ride isn't over.

[DubMcDub]

Was that before or after he propositioned you?

Excellent. Really well done. No doubt you're the comedian of the office with that razor-sharp wit.

[FromWayDowntown]

Actually, private organizations have limits when it comes to Federally protected rights. The Warren Court's interpretation of the 14th Amendment and commerce clause were intended to insure this. Even in NBA terms, there are limits.

By your argument, indentured servitude would be legal if someone were stupid enough to contract to it. Private agreement, right?

Not at all -- public policy and the provisions of modern contract law as it relates to relationships between private parties would preclude the enforcement of that sort of a contract. So would other federal acts that apply expressly to private actors -- matters like Title VII for example.

There is, as far as I know, little or no limitation on the power of private entites to sanction participants in the entity for expressive behavior. That power can be limited by an agreement among the participants (say, a collective bargaining agreement that caps fines or creates a schedule for assessing fines associated with particular conduct) or some other contractual mechanism. But there is simply no Constitutional basis for Cuban to object to anything the NBA does with respect to his behavior.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, the ride isn't over.

I hope not as well. But there is a lot of young talent in the league and #21 is 30. Enjoy the ride but remember that if you are a real Spurs fan the day is coming soon that we will be on the outside of the "elite" looking in. Mavs could actually extend their elite days because they have an owner that doesn't care if he loses money.

[Reggie Miller]

Not at all -- public policy and the provisions of modern contract law as it relates to relationships between private parties would preclude the enforcement of that sort of a contract. So would other federal acts that apply expressly to private actors -- matters like Title VII for example.

There is, as far as I know, little or no limitation on the power of private entites to sanction participants in the entity for expressive behavior. That power can be limited by an agreement among the participants (say, a collective bargaining agreement that caps fines or creates a schedule for assessing fines associated with particular conduct) or some other contractual mechanism. But there is simply no Constitutional basis for Cuban to object to anything the NBA does with respect to his behavior.

I'll admit it. The involuntary servitude argument was hyperbole. There are even Federal criminal statutes that cover that situation. (Believe it or not, the Mann Act was originally intended to prevent the so-called "white slavery" of prostitutes.)

However, I think we are both confusing the Constitutional law principles that apply here. First, voluntary associations have more or less of a free hand, as you describe. (The suits involving the Boy Scouts are a good example of this.) Employers do not have a free hand.

HOWEVER, I forgot that Cuban is not an employee of the NBA. That radically alters the equation. I guarantee you that it wouldn't hold up in Federal District Court if Stern did this to a league employee. Heck, the Feds overturned Jermaine O'Neal's suspension on similar grounds.

EDIT: If you're curious, I'll look up the case law on this at work tomorrow. It's a Warren or Burger opinion relating to employers in interstate commerce. I am mostly stuck doing real estate law anymore, so I can't remember the case. Hey, if you ever want to build condos in Indiana; I'm your man!

[x0xbillupsx0x]

well him whinning and complaining gets the refs on his side,
like they were earflier in the season when he complained about refs!
he does what he gets away with.
and like last nights game it clearly works to his advantage!

[A-Train]

Excellent. Really well done. No doubt you're the comedian of the office with that razor-sharp wit.

Absolutely. No doubt you're the envy of the garage with the 'ayh wunce talked to uh Mahrk Coobuhn.'.

[LEONARD]

I love how fired up the other team's fans get about Cuban...

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060507/capt.c5f0fe2e88f447eda1ad0729039ff6cd.mavericks_sp urs_basketball_saa121.jpg

He's greatness...

A $200k fine means he'll also give another $200k to charity...

[A-Train]

Not really fired up, more like annoyed.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'll admit it. The involuntary servitude argument was hyperbole. There are even Federal criminal statutes that cover that situation. (Believe it or not, the Mann Act was originally intended to prevent the so-called "white slavery" of prostitutes.)

However, I think we are both confusing the Constitutional law principles that apply here. First, voluntary associations have more or less of a free hand, as you describe. (The suits involving the Boy Scouts are a good example of this.) Employers do not have a free hand.

HOWEVER, I forgot that Cuban is not an employee of the NBA. That radically alters the equation. I guarantee you that it wouldn't hold up in Federal District Court if Stern did this to a league employee. Heck, the Feds overturned Jermaine O'Neal's suspension on similar grounds.

EDIT: If you're curious, I'll look up the case law on this at work tomorrow. It's a Warren or Burger opinion relating to employers in interstate commerce. I am mostly stuck doing real estate law anymore, so I can't remember the case. Hey, if you ever want to build condos in Indiana; I'm your man!

I'm relatively sure that if I said something absolutely stupid and my boss wanted to either dock my pay or fire me because of what I said, I'd have no legal recourse outside of a wrongful termination case -- and I'd be unlikely to win that.

I don't mean to run this into the ground, and I'm amenable to agreeing to disagree on the legal niceties of this (since I'm not inclined to engage in any research), but I think the fact that Cuban is a franchisee and not an employee is dispositive to the legal question. Cuban has no First Amendment rights vis-a-vis the NBA and there's nothing to prohibit the NBA from fining him for the expression of ideas with which it disagrees. Cuban might have some sort of argument related to an excessive fine (though I doubt it) but he has no fundamental right to free expression in the context of his participation in the NBA.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What I do not understand is this:

every-god-forsaken-time a player, coach, owner whines about calls in the playoffs (EVERY TIME) there is always always always always (ALWAYS) a controversially refereed game immediately afterwards.

If I had stern's yiddish ass in an interview I would keep asking him why this happens again and again until I got an answer that truely added up.

[greyforest]

What I do not understand is this:

every-god-forsaken-time a player, coach, owner whines about calls in the playoffs (EVERY TIME) there is always always always always (ALWAYS) a controversially refereed game immediately afterwards.

If I had stern's yiddish ass in an interview I would keep asking him why this happens again and again until I got an answer that truely added up.

what's not to understand?

controversy creates media attention, publicity, and therefore

money

dur.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yes, well I would wait until Stern said that to me himself, then punch him in his disgusting face

[greyforest]

Yes, well I would wait until Stern said that to me himself, then punch him in his disgusting face

he could then have you killed, and in the ensuing trial buy his freedom.

MONEY!!! it's a gasssss...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

maybe thats why people vote conservative too

[ShoogarBear]

habeas corpus ipso facto sum
When Lawyers Collide. Can't we just rule that Cuban is a giant wanker and move on.

[greyforest]

maybe thats why people vote conservative too

uhh, doesn't matter who you vote for buddy, anyone you vote for has to have

MONNNAYYYYYYEYEAYYY

its a crimmmee!

[DubMcDub]

Absolutely. No doubt you're the envy of the garage with the 'ayh wunce talked to uh Mahrk Coobuhn.'.

Talk about forced and contrived. Not to mention utterly nonsensical.

You're trying entirely too hard.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

When Lawyers Collide. Can't we just rule that Cuban is a giant wanker and move on.

Agreed.

[milkyway21]

alleluyah! :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

Cuban is an example of a rich but un-classy guys in the world of sports.

:ban: him on AT &T he's a distraction:lmao

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

But you see, when the Pistons fans arrived last season in the playoffs, a lot of them were obnoxious dumbasses too :lol Maybe the Mavs fans will follow suit.


Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

[FromWayDowntown]

When Lawyers Collide. Can't we just rule that Cuban is a giant wanker and move on.


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060507/capt.c5f0fe2e88f447eda1ad0729039ff6cd.mavericks_sp urs_basketball_saa121.jpg

In lawyer speak, res ipsa loquitur

[bendmz]

if any of you folks listened to Charlie and Chance this morning, there was a sports writer who interviewed a referee. and said the San Antonio Spurs as a team ranked in the top 5 as most complaining in the NBA. Rasheed of course. led the way....... anyone else listen to that today?

[Reggie Miller]

I'm relatively sure that if I said something absolutely stupid and my boss wanted to either dock my pay or fire me because of what I said, I'd have no legal recourse outside of a wrongful termination case -- and I'd be unlikely to win that.

I don't mean to run this into the ground, and I'm amenable to agreeing to disagree on the legal niceties of this (since I'm not inclined to engage in any research), but I think the fact that Cuban is a franchisee and not an employee is dispositive to the legal question. Cuban has no First Amendment rights vis-a-vis the NBA and there's nothing to prohibit the NBA from fining him for the expression of ideas with which it disagrees. Cuban might have some sort of argument related to an excessive fine (though I doubt it) but he has no fundamental right to free expression in the context of his participation in the NBA.

You're not running it into the ground. Actually, we're both right. Cuban is not an employee; thus, he has no recourse. (That is 100% dispositive, no question.) His franchise agreement with the NBA would be binding in this context. Going along with your point on contract interpetation, his contract is not an "adhesion" contract. Theoretically, his bargaining position with the league would be considered more or less equal (even though we know it's not true in reality). A mere employee has the "adhesion" contract argument (i.e. only one party, the NBA, had any bargaining power, the other party was "stuck" with it.)

In terms of its own employees, the NBA would have the power to fire someone or take progressive disciplinary actions within certain limits (contracts, etc.). However, they wouldn't be allowed to fine an employee for expressing their opinion. They could fire the employee, then turn around and sue the former employee for defamation, etc.

Another interesting point would be: where is the line? Obviously, an excessive fine would also be actionable at some point for an owner or coach, if only on equitable grounds.

At any rate, the whole thing strikes me as somewhat "un-American." I can see fining an owner for what amounts to defamation, such as suggesting referees fixed games. Fining what might be perceived by the public as constructive criticism (although I think it was disingenuous in Cuban's case), isn't going to help the NBA or discourage complaining about the refs. Like you, I'm not going to do much heavy lifting on this, but I think it is not unreasonable to argue that a Court would rule that at some point, Cuban has minimal protection of his 1st Amendment right via the interstate commerce clause. For example, if Cuban were to say "maybe the NBA ought to consider a new merit system to improve officiating in the playoffs" and no more, then Stern fined him say a million, then you have a pretty good case for some minimal protection. When we leave the labor context and enter the realm of contract, it gets pretty tenuous, though.

[Reggie Miller]

I forgot to mention that if I were a Federal judge, I would probably have to side with the league on this one. From a purely legal standpoint, the fine is not excessive per se. The purpose of liquidated damages and similar concepts is to prevent harm, not only to redress actual damages. The league's agreement was (again, theoretically) created by the parties, and it addresses the league's valid policy concern that participants cannot openly question its validity. However, as Dickens wrote, "then sir, the Law is an ass..."

[Reggie Miller]

In lawyer speak, res ipsa loquitur

That should be Cuban's new nickmname, "The Thing" :lol The hair fits, and we know the man owns more blue jumpsuits than Evel.