Best player without a ring

[polandprzem]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0605/gallery.nbaneverwon/content.1.html

In your opinion which one is the best?

To me it's between Malone, Baylor and Iceman

[detpistonsff7]

mcdyess...jk, but he still is good. i'd have to say malone...he should have had a ring though when he played the pistons in 04. i mean we kicked their ass and it should have been the other way around.

[Marklar MM]

Sucks to be Baylor. Retired because of knee injuries, and his team goes on to win the title the same year. Talk about bad luck.

[detpistonsff7]

Sucks to be Baylor. Retired because of knee injuries, and his team goes on to win the title the same year. Talk about bad luck.

yeah that would be awful. "cruel twist of fate" no other words to describe it. :depressed

[AZLouis]

Definitely Malone.

Though Brand could take over that unheralded spot by the end of his career.

I'd also put Reggie Miller as a runner up in the mix too.

[Fabbs]

Lot of good players.
Baylor, Iceman.
KG is way better then Karl Malone. Malone had his chances and fumbled the ball away to MJ. Ditto Reggie Miller, he doesnt even belong. Got schooled by 23 year old Kobe in the Finals. Weak.

[himat]

Definitely Malone.

Though Brand could take over that unheralded spot by the end of his career.

I'd also put Reggie Miller as a runner up in the mix too.

I don't know why they didn't have him or Payton.

[Reggie Miller]

No particular order...

Karl Malone
Elgin Baylor
Reggie Miller
Iceman Gervin
Charles Barkley

Barkley is sort of a sentimental choice. I've always liked that big goof.

There are a LOT of ABA people that deserve to be in the HOF, since it is the "basketball" HOF, not the "NBA" HOF. The HOF has not been kind to the ABA, considering the number of college players and coaches included. Dr. J. is the only player in the HOF to spend significant time in the ABA. I don't think Barry Sr. is in the HOF, but we would be another if that is the case.

There's quite a few I may be leaving out, because I'm not sure if they're in the HOF or not.

Dominique Wilkins is a funny case. I'm not sure he deserves to be in the HOF. At any rate, I don't put him in the same class as those above.

[JamStone]

Charles Barkley.

By the way, a similar thing happened to Pete Maravich that happened to Elgin. Maravich frustrated at the end of his career in Boston retires, the following year Larry Bird takes the Celtics to a championship.

Pete Maravich should be somewhere down that list as well.

[1Parker1]

Reggie Miller
Grant Hill--Just because I like him
Allen Iverson

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Chuck Barkley
Reggie Miller
John Stockton
Karl Malone

[JamStone]

I'm sorry, but I don't think Reggie Miller is even in the top 25 NBA players never to win a ring.

[whottt]

Barkley

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but barkley was better than malone!

[polandprzem]

No particular order...

Karl Malone
Elgin Baylor
Reggie Miller
Iceman Gervin
Charles Barkley

Barkley is sort of a sentimental choice. I've always liked that big goof.

There are a LOT of ABA people that deserve to be in the HOF, since it is the "basketball" HOF, not the "NBA" HOF. The HOF has not been kind to the ABA, considering the number of college players and coaches included. Dr. J. is the only player in the HOF to spend significant time in the ABA. I don't think Barry Sr. is in the HOF, but we would be another if that is the case.

There's quite a few I may be leaving out, because I'm not sure if they're in the HOF or not.

Dominique Wilkins is a funny case. I'm not sure he deserves to be in the HOF. At any rate, I don't put him in the same class as those above.

It's not about HOF and Rick barry is in HOF.

Talking about somebody who is not. Take a look at Artis Gilmore.

---------

Sure Miller and Payton are the great excamples (additions) to that list. But if you put Miller you've got more ppl coming with him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Definitely Malone.

Though Brand could take over that unheralded spot by the end of his career.

I'd also put Reggie Miller as a runner up in the mix too.

i dont think brand deserves to be mention, he chose to stayed on the clippers team even though they were losing and there owner is tighter than ours, plus he wanted his own team, now his team is winnin, but next season they will go back down to earth.

[himat]

Allen Iverson

[1Parker1]

I'm sorry, but I don't think Reggie Miller is even in the top 25 NBA players never to win a ring.

That's cuz you're Pistons fan :)

[Reggie Miller]

It's not about HOF and Rick barry is in HOF.

Talking about somebody who is not. Take a look at Artis Gilmore.

---------

Sure Miller and Payton are the great excamples (additions) to that list. But if you put Miller you've got more ppl coming with him.



Sorry. I forgot to add a sentence in the middle like this...

"It seems like an NBA championship is becoming a prerequisite for the HOF for NBA players."

Reggie Miller's credentials:

Leads the NBA in 3-pointers attempted and made; Leads NBA in 3-pointers made in playoffs (Horry is Finals only);12th place total points (25,279); 6th place in games played (1,389); 6th place in minutes played; and 7th place career FT%.

Now who exactly are all the other players without rings that would be "coming with" Reggie?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I'm sorry, but I don't think Reggie Miller is even in the top 25 NBA players never to win a ring.


Yes he is...he was the most prolific shooter in history and was more clutch than 85% of the players to ever play the game

[ALVAREZ6]

I'd say AI & KG.

[Spurologist]

Charles Barkley.

[Reggie Miller]

NBA Career Points Leaders

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2. Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
3. Karl Malone 31,041
4. Michael Jordan 29,277
5. Moses Malone 27,409
6. Elvin Hayes 27,313
7. Oscar Robertson 26,710
8. Dominique Wilkins 26,668
9. John Havlicek 26,395
10. Hakeem Olajuwon 25,822
11. Alex English 25,613
12. Reggie Miller 25,279

That's more points than Barkley, Gervin (didn't add in ABA numbers, however), and Baylor.

On the above list, only Karl Malone, Dominique Wilkins, Alex English, and Reggie Miller do not have at least one NBA championship. Moses Malone, Hayes, and Robertson only have one. (I had to double-check on Hayes.) No matter how many times I see this list, I'm always a little bit surprised to see Hayes and English on there. For some reason, I keep thinking Russell is on this list, despite the fact that he hasn't been playing for more than two decades and obviously isn't adding to his total! :rolleyes

EDIT: I'm not saying career point totals is an absolute criteria for greatness. However, if anyone honestly thinks that Miller isn't even one of the best 25 NBA players without a ring, I double-dog dare you to name 25 then. I'm starting to think that people who haven't been following basketball until Reggie's declining years don't realize how good he really was in the '90s.

[samikeyp]

Malone.

[Leetonidas]

Grant Hill for me. The guy is so insanely good, his injuries just killed him. Michael Jordan talent destroyed. What a waste.

[TDMVPDPOY]

grant hill was a waste, but i dont think he deserves to be mention, has he even ever gotten to the ecf? or out of teh 2nd round?

[JMarkJohns]

grant hill was a waste, but i dont think he deserves to be mention, has he even ever gotten to the ecf? or out of teh 2nd round?

I'm not certain he ever got to the second round.

If memory serves correct, it was his constant failing. A sort of McGrady/Garnett/Hill syndrome.

Hill was great, but this isn't your favorite player without a ring. He wasn't near as good as Baylor, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Miller or Gervin.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm not certain he ever got to the second round.

If memory serves correct, it was his constant failing.

I'm correct.

First round losses to Orlando, Atlanta, Atlanta and then Miami in his four trips to the playoffs.

[1Parker1]

However, if anyone honestly thinks that Miller isn't even one of the best 25 NBA players without a ring, I double-dog dare you to name 25 then. I'm starting to think that people who haven't been following basketball until Reggie's declining years don't realize how good he really was in the '90s.


:tu

[polandprzem]

Now who exactly are all the other players without rings that would be "coming with" Reggie?

Well I would say Webber, Nowitzki, Mutombo, Mourning, David Thompson, Artis Gilmore. But these guys olso deserves to be there.
Now pick the best of them. I would say Gilmore.

But seeing the Millers accomplishements as a player you made your point. Still I don't think he is better then Kidd in allaround game and the influance to the game. Yup he was scoring , he was making clutch shots but mostly it was his partners who was helping him

[Darrin]

John Stockton, Karl Malone, and Elgin Baylor.

[1Parker1]

Well I would say Webber, Nowitzki, Mutombo, Mourning, David Thompson, Artis Gilmore. But these guys olso deserves to be there.
Now pick the best of them. I would say Gilmore.

But seeing the Millers accomplishements as a player you made your point. Still I don't think he is better then Kidd in allaround game and the influance to the game. Yup he was scoring , he was making clutch shots but mostly it was his partners who was helping him


Who's comparing him to Kidd?? His response was to the fact that someone said there are at least 25 players who deserve a ring more than Reggie. Which is just crazy if anyone ever watched the Pacers in the 90's.

Do you see how the Pacers have done since his retirement?? For all his downfalls, even with his crazy last season, a 30 year Reggie still managed to lead his team to the ECSF. Since then, Pacers fell below .500 and fell out of the first round.

[polandprzem]

Who's comparing him to Kidd?? His response was to the fact that someone said there are at least 25 players who deserve a ring more than Reggie. Which is just crazy if anyone ever watched the Pacers in the 90's.

Do you see how the Pacers have done since his retirement?? For all his downfalls, even with his crazy last season, a 30 year Reggie still managed to lead his team to the ECSF. Since then, Pacers fell below .500 and fell out of the first round.

I think I was answering to him about who will be those 'others' which coming with Reggie and des not deserve to be top 15 (was it 15?)

That is it :)


btw. 1Parker1 you seems be unpleasnt to me lately. Am I right?

[1Parker1]

btw. 1Parker1 you seems be unpleasnt to me lately. Am I right?

:wtf, No, why would I be mad at you? I wasn't trying to sound unpleasant, I was just pointing out that no one was really comparing Kidd vs. Reggie Miller directly, which would be hard to do.

[polandprzem]

:wtf, No, why would I be mad at you? I wasn't trying to sound unpleasant, I was just pointing out that no one was really comparing Kidd vs. Reggie Miller directly, which would be hard to do.

Okay.

I compared them. He is on the list. taht's it. :spin

[Reggie Miller]

Reggie is the only player that I know of who allowed a team to play "outside-in," rather than "inside-out." Teams would double Reggie outside which often meant someone left Smits or Davis alone in the paint. That's pretty darn impressive.

By the way, I only talk about retired players in this context. Time may be running out for Kidd, Garnett, etc. However, it hasn't run out yet.

As 1Parker1 pointed out, the Pacers are a .500 team without even a 40 year-old Miller.

I left Stockton off my short list; he should be there too.

[polandprzem]

Reggie is the only player that I know of who allowed a team to play "outside-in," rather than "inside-out." Teams would double Reggie outside which often meant someone left Smits or Davis alone in the paint. That's pretty darn impressive.


well it's going both ways :)

BTW have you counted how many screens did Reggie get?

[Reggie Miller]

All jump-shooters use screens. Reggie didn't use them as often as most. Most of his famous playoff performances involve him shooting from the open while at least one defender was mugging him.

OTOH, Reggie didn't need screens much, because he used a lot of "gamesmanship," shall we say. Later in his career, Miller would do things like step on a defender's feet in the act of shooting. Needless to say, you don't need a screen when you create one with the defender! (Kind of hard to block shots when someone is tying up your lower body, also.)

Obviously, you think Miller is overrated. Obviously, I think he is underrated. I can understand; it's not like he is your screen name or anything.... ;)

[polandprzem]

Obviously, you think Miller is overrated. Obviously, I think he is underrated. I can understand; it's not like he is your screen name or anything.... ;)

hehe well I'm not taking anything from Reggie. And I give as much credit as there is to the players who deserves.

To me Reggie is not overated or underrated cause opinions are realy extreme (different).
Reggie is reggie. Top20-25 Guard in a history of an NBA

[Reggie Miller]

Reggie is reggie. Top20-25 Guard in a history of an NBA

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'd rank him near or at the bottom of the top 10 all-time guards. His career is somewhat diminished for never winning a championship, considering his role on the Pacers' best teams. I have to grant his critics that.

Again, I only think in terms of retired players. I never compare active and retired players on these types of "lists," because it isn't valid. Russell won't be winning anymore championships, and Kobe may not win again either. In my short life, I've seen a lot of "sure things" fizzle in all of the major sports for one reason or another. You're only as good as your last game; projecting someone's career like folks do with LeBron is very dangerous.

Side Note: Is is just me, or is being crowned "the Next Jordan" about as dangerous as being a child actor? You know, in the "lucky to get out alive" category?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Side Note: Is is just me, or is being crowned "the Next Jordan" about as dangerous as being a child actor? You know, in the "lucky to get out alive" category?
It's not just you. We've had 8 "next Michael Jordans" already. Sometimes it's better to lay low...or stay under the radar. I see Wade getting his ring before Lebron and possibly stealing the crown from him in the coming years. Or it could just be a rivalry, since Lebron might just be the exception to the rule.

[JamStone]

Better players than Reggie Miller not to have won a ring, not necessarily in any particular order, however, loosely ranked, in my opinion.


1. Charles Barkley
2. Karl Malone
3. Pete Maravich
4. Elgin Baylor
5. George Gervin
6. Alex English
7. Bernard King
8. Patrick Ewing
9. Sidney Moncrief
10. Kevin Garnett
11. John Stockton
12. Allen Iverson
13. Dominique Wilkins
14. Nate Thurmond
15. David Thompson
16. Dave Bing
17. Jason Kidd
18. Kevin Johnson
19. Adrian Dantley
20. Bob Lanier
21. Walt Bellamy
22. Chris Mullin
23. Gary Payton
24. Artis Gilmore
25. Connie Hawkins
26. Steve Nash
27. Calvin Murphy
28. Ray Allen
29. Chris Webber
30. Alonzo Mourning

I only added current players who are at least 10 years into the league and likely not going to win an NBA title the rest of their career, including Nash and Payton and Mourning, who technically still have a chance this season, but I doubt it.

[1Parker1]

Side Note: Is is just me, or is being crowned "the Next Jordan" about as dangerous as being a child actor? You know, in the "lucky to get out alive" category?

I can't stand it either. No one is going to be exactly like Jordan, just like I'm sure no one's going to be the next "Lebron" comming out of the draft, or the next "Kobe" scoring 81 points, etc.

[Darrin]

I can't stand it either. No one is going to be exactly like Jordan, just like I'm sure no one's going to be the next "Lebron" comming out of the draft, or the next "Kobe" scoring 81 points, etc.

What bothers me about the "Next Jordan" moniker is that if he is truly the next Jordan, what does that say about the talent of the "greatest player ever," that he can be replaced within 6-8 years after retiring?

[JamStone]

Talent is talent.

What's the difference if the next "one in a million" basketball player comes only 6-8 years after the previous one. Did it matter that Jerry West and Oscar Robertson were about the same age and played at the same time? Does it take away any of each's greatness that Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan all played in the same era but all won multiple championships?

The "Next Jordan" is part unbelievable talent and part unmistakeable commercial hype. That's why it's easier to find a "Next Jordan" more easily that to find the "Next Wilt" or the "Next Big O." It's because how accessible the media allows people to witness (no pun intended) these basketball players on such a wide scale and in such a widespread marketing campaigns.

OJ Mayo and Greg Oden could be the next Magic Johnson and Tim Duncan, and if they are even remotely close to living up to that potential, you'll be damn sure that the media will exploit every last penny to make it come as close to reality as the hype can be.

[RON ARTEST]

bill russel. :lol

[kobe_bryant]

shaq would be on the list at number 1 if it weren't for KB8

my dawg shaq knows that, i ain't starting another fight. we talked about this article last week.

[T-Pain]

shaq would be on the list at number 1 if it weren't for KB8

my dawg shaq knows that, i ain't starting another fight. we talked about this article last week.
:lol

[mikejones99]

How many games will Miami best Detroit in?

[Texas_Ranger]

Reggie Miller, John Stockton, Iceman

[mcornelio]

well... i hate to do this cuz i really hate the guy... but it hands down has to be kg... even though i hate him with all my heart.... but if there was one person who i would love to bring with us to win a ring it def. has to be reggie... reggie is my favorite player (non spur) of all time.

[JamStone]

How many games will Miami best Detroit in?


How many games will Dallas best Phoenix in?

:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

Better players than Reggie Miller not to have won a ring, not necessarily in any particular order, however, loosely ranked, in my opinion.


1. Charles Barkley
2. Karl Malone
3. Pete Maravich
4. Elgin Baylor
5. George Gervin
6. Alex English
7. Bernard King
8. Patrick Ewing
9. Sidney Moncrief
10. Kevin Garnett
11. John Stockton
12. Allen Iverson
13. Dominique Wilkins
14. Nate Thurmond
15. David Thompson
16. Dave Bing
17. Jason Kidd
18. Kevin Johnson
19. Adrian Dantley
20. Bob Lanier
21. Walt Bellamy
22. Chris Mullin
23. Gary Payton
24. Artis Gilmore
25. Connie Hawkins
26. Steve Nash
27. Calvin Murphy
28. Ray Allen
29. Chris Webber
30. Alonzo Mourning

I only added current players who are at least 10 years into the league and likely not going to win an NBA title the rest of their career, including Nash and Payton and Mourning, who technically still have a chance this season, but I doubt it.

You got KM ranked to high, JS to low? without JS feeding KM, KM will be liike KG of his team, one man team with statpaddin

[MikeSchafer]

How many games will Dallas best the Clippers in?

:lol

fixed..... jk, but hopefully.....