Small ball

[CosmicCowboy]

OK...I am not trashing it...I just want some of the great basketball minds out there to tell me why we are doing it. Tim fouling out in the fourth doesn't seem like a very good plan.

discuss.

[NASpurs]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40952

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40905

[timvp]

When Bowen is guarding Dirk and Dirk is at power forward, you have go small or their penetration will kill you. They'll just find the mismatch and exploit it.

The key is rebounding out of small ball.

I hate it but at least against the Mavs I can understand why it'll has to be played in some scenarios.

[Solid D]

To add to what was said, Timmy will get into foul trouble guarding Dirk, so he defends the 5 (Diop/Damps). Bowen draws Dirk at the 4 most of the time. If Nazr or Rasho start, that leaves them to defend Howard, Terry or Harris. Not good. That's why Horry and Oberto are better options. They defend out on the floor well enough to at least take some turns on Dirk without getting hit by the "drive-by".

[CosmicCowboy]

OK...I get that, but when Terry/Howard are getting 20+ points on layups in low scoring games is that really where we want to go?

[Solid D]

Their layups were limited in the 2nd half, with the exception of a couple by Harris trying to drive on Timmy. The help D and switches improved after the 1st qtr. and forced Devin and Terry to try other options.

[ploto]

To add to what was said, Timmy will get into foul trouble guarding Dirk, so he defends the 5 (Diop/Damps). Bowen draws Dirk at the 4 most of the time. If Nazr or Rasho start, that leaves them to defend Howard, Terry or Harris. Not good. That's why Horry and Oberto are better options. They defend out on the floor well enough to at least take some turns on Dirk without getting hit by the "drive-by".
The problem I have had this series is the small ball WITHOUT Tim-- Why have we tried it with Nazr, Horry, and Oberto when it worked OK with Rasho against Sacramento. I know Pop thinks Rasho is a bad match-up in this series, but surely he can handle Dampier for a few minutes if the Spurs need to go small while Tim rests. It is infinitely preferable to small ball with Nazr.

[CosmicCowboy]

To add to what was said, Timmy will get into foul trouble guarding Dirk, so he defends the 5 (Diop/Damps). Bowen draws Dirk at the 4 most of the time. If Nazr or Rasho start, that leaves them to defend Howard, Terry or Harris. Not good. That's why Horry and Oberto are better options. They defend out on the floor well enough to at least take some turns on Dirk without getting hit by the "drive-by".

OK...so Tim fouls out coming to "help" guarding the paint...whats the difference?

This conversation could be academic if Dirk really rolled his ankle tonight but it seems like small ball has everyone out of their comfort zone and Spurs just aren't as crisp offensively/defensively because of the change.

[Solid D]

This may well be true, ploto, based on what we've seen from Nazr. Rasho just needs to make sure he doesn't allow Dampier to push and pull him. It's been a sore spot.

Rasho sets better screens on offense, too, BTW.

[ploto]

This may well be true, ploto, based on what we've seen from Nazr. Rasho just needs to make sure he doesn't allow Dampier to push and pull him. It's been a sore spot.

I know Pop thinks their bigs are "too physical" for Rasho but we are missing some of the little things Rasho does. And Nazr hasn't been particularly successful in this series, yet Pop still goes to him when Tim comes out. I think, though, that Pop is not going to change his mind. If large parts of games 2 and 3 did not bring Pop to consider giving Rasho a chance, then nothing will and I will continue to scream for someone to set a screen!

[CosmicCowboy]

*sigh*

I guess that what I am trying to say is that Spurs have built their championship defensive legacy on funneling drivers baseline with two shotblockers. It has worked. The results are proven. Mavs with Dirk have gone down before.

Is Pop getting too cute with Avery and forgetting what has made the Spurs great? It's like Phil Jackson giving up the triangle to "match up" with one of his former assistant coaches or players that are now coaches...

[clubalien]

when we have parker on dirk it just looks so wrong

[timvp]

Spurs' centers suck and the Spurs are doing what they can to prevent the Mavs from exploiting matchups.

Spurs used to have David and last year the Spurs didn't play a team like the Mavs. Even with the Suns, Nazr could buy minutes to start off a game on Amare.

[CosmicCowboy]

Spurs' centers suck and the Spurs are doing what they can to prevent the Mavs from exploiting matchups.

Spurs used to have David and last year the Spurs didn't play a team like the Mavs. Even with the Suns, Nazr could buy minutes to start off a game on Amare.

hmmm...so Dampier/Diop are that much better than Rasho/Nazr? Or are they more productive because they are on the floor?

[SequSpur]

Considering the fact that Duncan is setting a foul record, I would say that small ball is fucking stupid.

How's that?

[timvp]

You'd think sequ would be all about the small ball.

[SequSpur]

You'd think sequ would be all about the small ball.

It would be okay if it was successful at least in a preseason game.

[CosmicCowboy]

Considering the fact that Duncan is setting a foul record, I would say that small ball is fucking stupid.

How's that?

Damn, Sequ...we actually agree on something. The problem is that the foul situation FORCES Tim to be more timid in the second half defensively and he can't gamble on game changing blocks...in a normal Spurs game he is going into the fourth quarter with 2-3 fouls and can hammer/intimidate a driver. Now he can't.

[SequSpur]

Exactly.

[Kori Ellis]

in a normal Spurs game he is going into the fourth quarter with 2-3 fouls and can hammer/intimidate a driver. Now he can't.

That's a big point.

And also, when he's off the floor, we have 6'8 Oberto manning the paint. That's not a good thing.

[clubalien]

I thought oberto did an ok job guarding dirl much better than having tony guard him!

Still don't see why nazr and rasho don't get more mins.

I remember when they put nazr in for tim and nazrs butter fingers didn't catch manu's pass, but manu should know nazr cannot catch a passs like that.

still I think we did a good job getting back in the game never getting down. However, would be nice if we could lead and not be down so much.

[Kori Ellis]

Oberto did a decent job.

But I'd like to see one of the real centers on the floor for a stretch and see how it goes.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

OK...I am not trashing it...I just want some of the great basketball minds out there to tell me why we are doing it.


Small ball was at the center of the Spurs defense when we won the titles in 99, 03, and 05. Oh wait, nevermind, it wasn't. :lol




you have go small or their penetration will kill you

Last time I checked, Devin and Terry were the difference in this series being 2-1 Mavs instead of 3-0 Spurs. And they're scoring all their points in the lane because we are rotating between Horry and Bowen at "power forward."

What exactly is small ball doing to help us out LJ? Last time I checked it's a layup fest in there for Dallas, and it's all because of the absence of the second big.

They have no shot blocking to fear.

The other biggie is that Avery is moving the pick and roll to the middle of the floor so we can't funnel baseline. Three games later I still haven't seen Pop adjust to that.

Right now ol' Pop is coaching out of this series with his fucking matchups, but he'll run some folks out of town in the off-season after we lose to the Mavs, feed the E-N some stories about them being locker room cancers, and all will be 'well.' :rolleyes

Start Rasho. Fuck small ball.

[timvp]

Oberto did a decent job.

But I'd like to see one of the real centers on the floor for a stretch and see how it goes.

Not Nazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz:smchode:

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

By the way, all the "Duncan will get in foul trouble guarding Dirk" bullshit is just that - bullshit.

If they matchup, fine, so be it. Duncan fouled out anyway tonight with everyone's favorite little protectionist lineup.

Fucking call out the refs between now and game 4, put Duncan on Dirk, and dare the stripes to call that shit. At the other end, go at Dirk. As much as people bag on Rasho, he has a decent post up game, and Dirk plays no defense.

I'm tired of us pussy footing around Duncan on Dirk and losing games already, some of you will keep on defending small ball right on in to our off-season after we lose 4-1 to Dallas.

I'm sick of us catering to the matchups other teams want all the fucking time. Fuck adapting to Dallas. Put in two bigs and make them adjust to us. Come down on offense and post their 6'8" forwards up until we're blue in the face and they're in foul trouble.

It's time for Pop to earn his paycheck, right now he should be donating all his pay for this series to the local homeless shelter.

[T Park]

Right now ol' Pop is coaching out of this series with his fucking matchups, but he'll run some folks out of town in the off-season after we lose to the Mavs, feed the E-N some stories about them being locker room cancers, and all will be 'well

:lol

[T Park]

I'm tired of us pussy footing around Duncan on Dirk and losing games already

But yet you ripped up Pop for putting Duncan on Dirk back in April.............

[clubalien]

nazr could grab some rebounds and get some put backs. Small ball still didn't lose us the game. We just need to perform better.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm sick of us catering to the matchups other teams want all the fucking time. Fuck adapting to Dallas. Put in two bigs and make them adjust to us. Come down on offense and post their 6'8" forwards up until we're blue in the face and they're in foul trouble.

Thats EXACTLY where I am at.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But yet you ripped up Pop for putting Duncan on Dirk back in April.

Link?

Look, I know this will come as a shock to you Tpark, but games are played in a vacuum. I could give a fuck about what happened in April. We're in May, we're down 2-1, and right now the Whining Cajun is working over his mentor.

Dallas has won 5 of the last 8 meetings between us and them, including two absolute beat downs. You'd think Pop could glean something out of all that, something that could help us.

The Mavs are so successful right now because Avery knows Pop's mindset in and out. He knows the weaknesses in our system and is playing it all to its full advantage. Pop needs to get out of the box, no fuck that - he shouldn't even have a box, if we're going to have a chance.

I just want to see some creativity from the guy other than starting Barry over Manu. Show me some x's and o's. Hell, I'd settle for Pop figuring out a way to shut down Devin Harris for starters.

[T Park]

Link?




Game Blog,

Spurs VS Mavs


In the beginning of April


"Wtf is Pop thinking about putting Duncan on Dirk!!!"

[T Park]

I'd settle for Pop figuring out a way to shut down Devin Harris for starters.


Putting Parker on him didn't help.



Outside of resigning David Robinson, it aint happenin.


Rasho didnt block his layups in game 2 either, so tahts out the door too.

[Kori Ellis]

Rasho didnt block his layups in game 2 either, so tahts out the door too.

Rasho played 4 minutes in game 2.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Outside of resigning David Robinson, it aint happenin.


Not with no one taller than 6'8" guarding the lane.




Rasho didnt block his layups in game 2 either, so tahts out the door too.

We covered this after game 2. Rasho played three minutes, that's *3*, or III, tres, trois, whatever the fucking language you need it in to get through. 3 minutes, 43 seconds, to be exact.

How the hell can you judge a guy on three minutes? All I know is that we've done burnt Horry out playing him 30 minutes a night and that sure as hell ain't working.

Are you really this dense? Based off of three fucking minutes, at a time in the game when the Spurs had lost all composure, you're convinced Rasho should never see daylight.

Lame.

[Banks91]

Somebody needs to man up and stop letting through all the penetrations to Duncan.

I don't think they understand what they are doing. Duncan is basically carrying the team. You can't be stupid and continually let your player get into the paint so that they can pick up a foul on Duncan.

That pick and roll is doing double duty for Dallas. They are getting points, and getting Duncan out of the game.

[Banks91]

If you need to pick up a foul yourself to stop the drives, go ahead.
Its better then the player getting through and picking it up on Duncan instead.

[clubalien]

bowen does have a habit of funneling his defender , but there has always been the twin tower there for the defender to run in to. It is nothing new that we get beat. We have had tons of people get in the lane.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I'm sick of us catering to the matchups other teams want all the fucking time. Fuck adapting to Dallas. Put in two bigs and make them adjust to us. Come down on offense and post their 6'8" forwards up until we're blue in the face and they're in foul trouble.
No matter who's guarding Rasho or Nazr I'd still rather just throw the ball to Tim in the post, and by having another real big in there you're just giving him less room to operate.

However, I think I could go on just fine without ever seeing another Oberto and 4 guards line up.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

If you need to pick up a foul yourself to stop the drives, go ahead.
Its better then the player getting through and picking it up on Duncan instead.

Tim should be playing Dirk straight up.
Our scrubby big men cancel their scrubby big men out, point for point, board for board, foul for foul. Tony on Harris, Gino on Crackhouse, Bruce on Howard.
Let the rest of the bench take care of itself against their bench.
Worth a shot, no?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Somebody needs to man up and stop letting through all the penetrations to Duncan.

Our system has always let people through. The problem right now is that we always had two bigs back there, so that when one stepped up to alter the shot he had backup to clean up the scraps on the dish off.

We don't have that right now with Bowen or Horry back there 'backing up' Duncan.

Good God, you people realize we played Oberto and four guards, and people are defending Pop? Avery's just sitting back and letting Pop fuck himself with stupid lineups. Unbelievable.