Random (and severely pissed off) Thoughts On Game 4.

[MannyIsGod]

- Props to the Mavs for outplaying the Spurs in OT. Jason Terry is better than I ever thought.

- Props to The Spurs for winning the game through 48 minutes.

- The Mavericks did not earn OT. I've laid off the ref card all series long. I'm about to pull it out, take it to Kinkos, blow it up, and march around the fucking city with it.

Why can't the refs let the players decide the damn game? What on earth is going through your head to where you think that putting Dirk on the line there is the correct call to make when both players are banging and there is no obvious foul.

Thats not to say Dirk doesn't hit a shot to tie the game, but that is irrelevant because he was handed a opportunity to hit free throws where Bowen has no impact.

- After being through 95, .4, 2001, and the other heartbreaks that we've had to endure as Spurs fans, I can tell you that this doesn't feel the same. I don't know if the players feel the same, but in those other situations I felt as though the Spurs had been beat. I don't feel as though they've been beat here. I feel as though the Mavericks have been hadned something. I feel really fucking pissed.

If they feel the same way, then I think they have a chance. If they feel angry and robbed and if they can come out and play with a chip on their shoulder in front of the home crowd on Wednesday, then I think they have a chance.

- Tim Duncan is playing with a desire that I haven't seen since 99. I was in awe at the way he was taking the ball to the hole and willing each and every shot in. I think he ran out of gas at the end (as did Parker) but I think overall that Duncan played insanely incredible. If that Tim Duncan shows up again for game 5, then I think they have a chance.

- Manu is playing through whatever is ailing him. He doesn't look as explosive, but damn he sure as hell willed himself to a good game tonight. If that Manu shows up for game 5, then I think they have a chance.

- Finley came up huge. What more can you say about the clutch shots and dunk he hit? He also had a couple of possesions of incredible defense.

- Tony, oh Tony. I think Tony is a few more years away from discovering just how great he can be. He was incredible tonight, but he still lacks some decisino making ability late in the game. You can't take a damn thing away from his game tonight, though. I wish Manu had been able to be in there late so that Tony could have been the 3rd option. I worry about him holding over something from those missed free throws, but I'm confident that he can come back and have a good game again on Game 5. If he does, then I think they have a chance.

- I don't think the fight from this team is gone. After .4, it was gone without a doubt. After Game 4 in 01, We all knew it was gone. I really don't feel as though the fight in this team is going to die untill they have been eliminated. And that gives me hope.

- I won't lie. I don't think they have a huge chance to beat this team 3 times in a row. But I do feel as though they have a chance. I definetly feel they can win game 5. A game six would be much harder, but first we see what happens in a game 5.

- Fuck the Refs, Fuck the bullshit calls. I'm going to yell my ass off Wednesday. Don't you fuckers quit on this team. This isn't over. Don't you dare fucking quit on this team.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

That is what we have been telling you manny, they let the mavericks shoot free throws to two fuckign playoff wins in a row against the defending champs.

fucking barkley even agrees with us.


Finley is ridiculous. He's earned a fan for life :tu

barry on the other hand..

[T Park]

That blocking foul on Dirk was recockulas.

Still had a shot at winning with 8 seconds left though.

Props to the mavs.

[KEDA]

Manny,


dont go to Kinkos, bring it to me and I will take care of it!

[T Park]

Just gotta do what Phoenix did.

Take it one game at a time.

Win the game at home, then worry about the road game.


It can be done.

Its not undoable.

[MannyIsGod]

- I'm going PMSing Woman on the forum and going to get Ice cream. I'm eating it all. Dick Bavetta is a stupid old fuck.

[E20]

I'll tell you what made me mad.

-Terry's flop on Manu to get him his 5th foul
-The fact that we were in the exact same situation, Duncan fouling out on Saturday and now Ginobili fouling out today
-The Mavericks Orginazation and Fanbase's pre-mature ejaculation and celebreations. They're smiles and grins make me sick to my stomach

Spurs in 7. Heart of a Champion wins out.

Just watch because.....

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/995/wp0405hcts102416nz.jpg

[rayray2k8]

Props to the mavs for beating us from the line. ;)

[loveforthegame]

I'm going to wake up with the shakes all night long thinking of that dumb fucking pass from Barry.

[strangeweather]

-The Mavericks Orginazation and Fanbase's pre-mature ejaculation and celebreations. They're smiles and grins make me sick to my stomach

There's only one way to wipe that shit off their face.

Blowing a 3-1 series lead is every franchise's worst nightmare. It's time to go Freddy Krueger on their asses.

[adrienne]

In defense of the Mavs and fans excitement...the Spurs are the defending champions. They are like the big brother. No, they haven't won the series yet. Maybe they won't win it. But I think we have right to be happy with the way things are going.

[DubMcDub]

That you've not bitched about the refs all year is commendable, but doesn't lend any additional credibility to your complaint. You're more upset and emotional right now than you have been after any other loss this season, so it's quite understandable that you might resort to bitching about the refs now when you didn't earlier.

The bad calls evened out in the end. Deal with it.

[FearDaDuncaN_SA]

I read this from an article, and decided to post it here:

On the next play, Dallas cleared out for Nowitzki. He bumped against defensive nemesis Bruce Bowen, drawing a key foul.
Bowen was so angry he went to the sideline near midcourt, looked toward NBA commissioner David Stern in the front row, and said loud enough to be heard, "This is terrible."
Nowitzki made both shots to tie it at 111.

Seriously, the Spurs have been victimized by the profoundly and outrageously poor officiating. It's despicable and unfortunate.
Even Charles Barkley had something to say about it. He said, "The officiating was atrocious and something has to be done about it.
He also said that the "foul" to give Nowitzki the game, tying points for overtime, wasn't a foul. And he commented that David Stern should take a good look at the NBA officiating.

And Avery might know it as well because he said that the team got "breaks."
And indeed, it was so:

1.)How about all of the swipes the Mavs got away with on the rebounds?
2.)How about the numerous offensive fouls that Dirk got no calls for near the end?
3.)How about the charge against Duncan, that somehow became a blocking foul by Duncan, even though he had position and was a mile in front of the arc, not to mention that he was well positioned and didn't so much as flinch?
4.)How about the fact that any time Dallas came into the paint, the refs were practically whetting their whistles?

It's one thing if David Stern wants to come out and admit he'd rather not see the Spurs in the finals. But, to snowball them via the refs, is unsportsmanlike.

So far, it's the refs winning this series.

P.S. And, a few hours ago, Fox Sports Southwest was going off on the refs.

P.S.S. I'm still upset because, during Game 3, everyone and thier dog knew that there should not have been a foul when Dirk hurt his ankle!

All in all, this series isnt over.

[aaronstampler]

That is what we have been telling you manny, they let the mavericks shoot free throws to two fuckign playoff wins in a row against the defending champs.

fucking barkley even agrees with us.


Finley is ridiculous. He's earned a fan for life :tu

barry on the other hand..


Finley has one game where he hit some big shots and he's earned a fan for life, and Manu had two bad games in Sacramento and you were ready to say he's dead to you?

YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

I bet you were a big Brent fan after Game 2 vs Sac too...

[SA210]

"The NBA officials, they suck." - Charles Barkley

[FearDaDuncaN_SA]

Blowing a 3-1 series lead is every franchise's worst nightmare.

Has that ever happened?

And if not, there's a first time for everything.
If so, there's a second or third or fourth time...hehe

Anything is possible.
I hope the Spurs dont give up and dont give in. I hope they make it tough for the Mavs to win this series.
I hope they do such a good job at it, that the Mavs get nervous and the Spurs really think that they can pull it off.
And when all is said and done, it's game 7 and the Spurs win....

That would be bitter sweet.

[MannyIsGod]

Best ice cream ever. I reccomend everyone get some. I feel better already.

[Trainwreck2100]

Has that ever happened?

And if not, there's a first time for everything.
If so, there's a second or third or fourth time...hehe



:pctoss

[SA210]

manny......................I have been say this shit for years....why doesn't anyone listen?and why do we keep watching and spending money on this bullshit?
I know you have and I always agreed.

I'm ticked off!

[DubMcDub]

Has that ever happened?

And if not, there's a first time for everything.
If so, there's a second or third or fourth time...hehe

Anything is possible.
I hope the Spurs dont give up and dont give in. I hope they make it tough for the Mavs to win this series.
I hope they do such a good job at it, that the Mavs get nervous and the Spurs really think that they can pull it off.
And when all is said and done, it's game 7 and the Spurs win....

That would be bitter sweet.

...it happened in the first round of the playoffs THIS year. Phoenix did it.

[Trainwreck2100]

Best ice cream ever. I reccomend everyone get some. I feel better already.

I gots me some tres leches ice cream in the freezer

[jamezyjamez]

YUM I love leeches

[MannyIsGod]

I know you have and I always agreed.

I'm ticked off!You agree with him the NBA is fixed?

[Trainwreck2100]

YUM I love leeches

that's cause you're white, and five.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the timeout where tp ran up half court
dude comes back on after screen and shoots with open space, clanks it
mavs run down basket, gino fouls out i think here
then tony parker runs in for a missed layup

this was when we were up by 5pts :(:( stupid parker take open shots is worster then allowin nve chuck up shots

then the finley moment where i wanna be like mike tryin to catch the ball witn one hand, wtf was that, we cant afford mistakes like that

OT, we shouldve been more aggressive attackin the rim.

[FearDaDuncaN_SA]

...it happened in the first round of the playoffs THIS year. Phoenix did it.

Awesomeness.
Let's hope the Spurs can pull it off too.

P.S. How did mannyisgod get his avator to 92 by 79 pixels?

[Slydragon]

Who ever goes to the game, Make some posters that say.

Put a pic of big ol glasses and put Here ya go refs you fucken need them.

Were also making are own Ref tapes, what's that addy again Cuban?

[Trainwreck2100]

The bad calls evened out in the end. Deal with it.

Which call did the Spurs get away with that warranted Dirks. And that was a nice make up in the fourth when the refs realized they fucked up so they decided to call a moving screen on Duncan, instead of giving dallas the ball.

[SA210]

You agree with him the NBA is fixed?
Manny, do you happen to think that the refs just missed some calls 3 games straight. That it was all just innocent missed calls?

Do you really believe that?

[DubMcDub]

Which call did the Spurs get away with that warranted Dirks. And that was a nice make up in the fourth when the refs realized they fucked up so they decided to call a moving screen on Duncan, instead of giving dallas the ball.

You can't pick it apart by analyzing "what call cancelled out such and such bad call". The refs don't keep a scorecard of how many bad calls theyve made either way and try to balance it out.

It's basic law of averages. Unless you're going to assume that refs are intentionally trying to get one team to win (which apparently some of you are...and if that's the case, why are you even watching the NBA?), you HAVE to accept the fact that, over time, bad calls WILL even out.

If they are reffing the games as fairly and impartially as is humanly possible, then law of averages dictates that the bad calls do even out.

I'm not gonna sit here and claim the Mavericks have never received a beneficial call. Of course they have. But so have the Spurs. You have to take the good with the bad...or stop watching.

[DubMcDub]

Manny, do you happen to think that the refs just missed some calls 3 games straight. That it was all just innocent missed calls?

Do you really believe that?

If you think the NBA refereeing is fixed, then don't watch. Sport events are predicated on the fact that their outcomes are not pre-determined. If you aren't a believer that such is the case....then why are you a sports fan in the first place?

[Trainwreck2100]

You can't pick it apart by analyzing "what call cancelled out such and such bad call". The refs don't keep a scorecard of how many bad calls theyve made either way and try to balance it out.

It's basic law of averages. Unless you're going to assume that refs are intentionally trying to get one team to win (which apparently some of you are...and if that's the case, why are you even watching the NBA?), you HAVE to accept the fact that, over time, bad calls WILL even out.

If they are reffing the games as fairly and impartially as is humanly possible, then law of averages dictates that the bad calls do even out.

I'm not gonna sit here and claim the Mavericks have never received a beneficial call. Of course they have. But so have the Spurs. You have to take the good with the bad...or stop watching.


Standard deviation warrants a slide to one side.

[efrem1]

- Don't you f**** quit on this team. This isn't over. Don't you dare f**** quit on this team.

m-i-g:

Don't worry m-i-g I'll be there win or lose. We got three titles and the NBA brass can't take that away from us.

[DubMcDub]

Standard deviation warrants a slide to one side.

Sure, but again, over time the deviation becomes negligible.

I'm certainly not arguing the existence of poor refereeing, in this series or in sports in general.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, do you happen to think that the refs just missed some calls 3 games straight. That it was all just innocent missed calls?

Do you really believe that?The NBA is not fixed and I'm not going to sit here and argue with anyone who thinks it is.

If the NBA was fixed, the Spurs have won nothing.

[MannyIsGod]

Sure, but again, over time the deviation becomes negligible.

I'm certainly not arguing the existence of poor refereeing, in this series or in sports in general.Yeah, all the theoretical statistics in the world won't change the fact the call on Bruce may be the worst call I've ever seen in my life.

[Trainwreck2100]

Sure, but again, over time the deviation becomes negligible.

I'm certainly not arguing the existence of poor refereeing, in this series or in sports in general.


Yes but the time it takes to even out could take longer than a game could allow. So LOA vs. SD SD wins out or vice versa.

[SpurCapita]

I don't think fouls in a single game should ever be subjected to the Law of Large Numbers.

[SA210]

The NBA is not fixed and I'm not going to sit here and argue with anyone who thinks it is.

If the NBA was fixed, the Spurs have won nothing.
You can say what you want about it being fixed or not,

but the truth is the Refs Gift Wrapped this series so far for the Mavs.

Now we gotta play 100% frickin' perfect to beat these refs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

stern was on the mavs bench

[bdubya]

Has that ever happened?

8 or 9 times, I think. Pistons did it to the Magic three years back (although both the current teams are a few big steps up from the '03 Pistons and Magic). It's eminently doable.

[Nbadan]

I can't believe that the very same call Varajello got in the Cav's-Piston game (twice), Tim Duncan couldn't get against Dallas (the blocking foul).

[efrem1]

Well, I would not say the game is fixed, but there are certain biases that don't amount to a conspiracy, yet can influence the match. Having said that, if the Soviets can rig the outcome of the 72 Olympics basketball final or Juventus pay to fix matches in the Italian Serie A league the last two seasons, who could say that some might be inclined to move a game one way or the other if the match is close? If scandal can happen in Washington, it could happen in the NBA offices too.

[DubMcDub]

Yes but the time it takes to even out could take longer than a game could allow. So LOA vs. SD SD wins out or vice versa.

I agree, but again I'm not even necessarily talking about this particular game or this particular series.

I just don't understand why people bitch about the refs in general. Either you are willing to accept the good with the bad and maintain a belief that they're doing the best they can, or you shouldn't watch sports in the first place.

[Spurzilla]

Best ice cream ever. I reccomend everyone get some. I feel better already. :tu


2 ice cream sandwiches
1 fudgesicle
1 large bowl of rocky road ice cream with oreo cookies
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Feelin' good! :tu

And of course, all while wearing my Spurs socks! :flag:

Just gotta take it all one day at a time now. I haven't heard one single note from the fat lady's mouth. Onto game 5. :cheer

[Nbadan]

If anyone should be getting the benefit of the calls, it's the Spurs - the defending champs. They are simply getting no respect from the refs, especially late.

[Trainwreck2100]

I agree, but again I'm not even necessarily talking about this particular game or this particular series.

I just don't understand why people bitch about the refs in general. Either you are willing to accept the good with the bad and maintain a belief that they're doing the best they can, or you shouldn't watch sports in the first place.


Did I think the refs sucked this series, yes. Did I blame them for the two earlier losses, prob. But I would be willing to admit that they got outplayed. But I never thougt, I'd see a game possibly a series, decided by a handcheck call. Like I said somewhere else, can you think of a playoff game where they made that call in under two minute with the game that close.

[MannyIsGod]

I agree, but again I'm not even necessarily talking about this particular game or this particular series.

I just don't understand why people bitch about the refs in general. Either you are willing to accept the good with the bad and maintain a belief that they're doing the best they can, or you shouldn't watch sports in the first place.Because at some point the frustration level reaches a place where you want to vent. I've been adament about not complaining about the calls. But damn, how much do they have to overcome? The last 2 games saw the Spurs play some incredible ball only to have it ripped away with that.

I do more than enough "accepting." But at a certain point enough is enough.

[DubMcDub]

Did I think the refs sucked this series, yes. Did I blame them for the two earlier losses, prob. But I would be willing to admit that they got outplayed. But I never thougt, I'd see a game possibly a series, decided by a handcheck call. Like I said somewhere else, can you think of a playoff game where they made that call in under two minute with the game that close.

Like someone told you in the other thread....Nets-Pacers last round, Game 5 or 6 (I can't remember which, both were 6 pt Nets wins).

[DubMcDub]

Because at some point the frustration level reaches a place where you want to vent. I've been adament about not complaining about the calls. But damn, how much do they have to overcome? The last 2 games saw the Spurs play some incredible ball only to have it ripped away with that.

I do more than enough "accepting." But at a certain point enough is enough.

The Spurs lost because they didn't make stops when it counted moreso than they lost because of officiating.

The problem is that complaining about the former involves taking your team off its pedastol, which it seems only some fans are willing to do, whereas the latter is the easy way out.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs lost because they didn't make stops when it counted moreso than they lost because of officiating.

The problem is that complaining about the former involves taking your team off its pedastol, which it seems only some fans are willing to do, whereas the latter is the easy way out.Yes, there were things that the Spurs needed to do to win and they didn't do them. Thats without a doubt. Tim had a game winner that he missed.

But you still fail to see the point. The road tonight was easier for the Mavericks. Free throws to get into OT are much easier than having to earn it everytime down. When one team plays with a handicap like that, its harder.

You're preaching to the choir about being introspective in these games. Go look at my previous posts and you'll see how adament I've been in that regard.

But NONE of that that changes that the Spurs had an extra hurdle to get over tonight. It was BAD. It has been acknowledged by people without a bias and I'm sure there will be more discussion about it in the media. So yes, while the Spurs need to fix things that they can control, there is a HUGE and VERY LEGITIMATE GRIPE to be had with the officiating right now.

Just realize it isn't an either/or situation. The Spurs could have won the game but it would have been INSPITE of bad officiating.

[SA210]

The Spurs lost because they didn't make stops when it counted moreso than they lost because of officiating.

The problem is that complaining about the former involves taking your team off its pedastol, which it seems only some fans are willing to do, whereas the latter is the easy way out.
The refs saw that we were up 9 playing OUR style and tempo, then they started calling crap to keep the mavs in the game. Period.

Tempo changed.

Mavs/Refs 3 Spurs 1

[DubMcDub]

But NONE of that that changes that the Spurs had an extra hurdle to get over tonight. It was BAD. It has been acknowledged by people without a bias and I'm sure there will be more discussion about it in the media.

I'm sorry, but no.

It has been acknowledged by Charles Barkley, a self-admitted gambling addict who for all you know had big money on the Spurs to cover (not to mention a self-proclaimed Manu fan and generally a Mavs hater).

And it has been acknowledged apparently by a few random fans on a Lakers message board? I'm sorry but when does a few people acknowledging something make it fact?

[efrem1]

I'm sorry, but no.

It has been acknowledged by Charles Barkley, a self-admitted gambling addict who for all you know had big money on the Spurs to cover (not to mention a self-proclaimed Manu fan and generally a Mavs hater).

And it has been acknowledged apparently by a few random fans on a Lakers message board? I'm sorry but when does a few people acknowledging something make it fact?

Your owner crossed the Rubicon of credibility when he called out the refs after Game 1. Fair is fair and we are pounding your buddies the refs for gift wrapping games 3 and 4 for you.

As I said in another post, if the Soviets can fix the 72 Olympics B-Ball final, if a frenchman can fix figure skating pairs competitions at Salt Lake City and if the leading Italian League Serie A team can be charged for fixing their games, who is to say that Stern and his buddies made "adjustments" after reading Cuban's posts?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm sorry, but no.

It has been acknowledged by Charles Barkley, a self-admitted gambling addict who for all you know had big money on the Spurs to cover (not to mention a self-proclaimed Manu fan and generally a Mavs hater).

And it has been acknowledged apparently by a few random fans on a Lakers message board? I'm sorry but when does a few people acknowledging something make it fact?Barkley now has money on the Spurs? Wow, thats one HELL of a reach. Kenny smith agreed with him as well.

Charlie Rosen just wrote an article saying as much. Give it time, they game just finished. There will be more.

And you didn't address anything else in my point. Don't harp on one thing you think you can refute (poorly at that) and ignore everything else I said. Address the entire post.

[SPARKY]

When Mavs fan comes up with a conspiracy it's fact. Of course.

[SpurCapita]

I'm sorry, but no.

It has been acknowledged by Charles Barkley, a self-admitted gambling addict who for all you know had big money on the Spurs to cover (not to mention a self-proclaimed Manu fan and generally a Mavs hater).

And it has been acknowledged apparently by a few random fans on a Lakers message board? I'm sorry but when does a few people acknowledging something make it fact?

Dear God, enough with this Barkley conspiracy betting stuff. You want people around here to quit with the ref conspiracies, then stop with the gambling fantasies.

I think that most people are just disappointed that the game had to end the way it did...with a very questionable call sending the game into OT. Sure, the Spurs could have played better, but so could any team at any point. Hell, the Mavs could have played better. Just tying the game from the free throw line on a call where the analyst has to do one of his "Steve Wonders" segments on where the foul call came from is just a piss poor ending to an otherwise entertaining affair. A foul at that juncture in the game should not have be looked at over and over again, and merit a final postulation that "I THINK that's what they called him for". With 8 seconds left, my God, it should be a damn obvious foul. Like I said, it was just a disappointing way to end a great game that had already had a lot of intrigue to it.

That said, I firmly believe the Spurs will snatch Game Five, and can only hope for the best.

[trueD]

I'm sorry, but no.

It has been acknowledged by Charles Barkley, a self-admitted gambling addict who for all you know had big money on the Spurs to cover (not to mention a self-proclaimed Manu fan and generally a Mavs hater).
Wow, talk about a consipiracy...within a conspiracy. This is news man! Maybe Barkley owes Stern. Anyone else hear about this? :lol

[Borosai]

How can the Spurs possibly get a defensive stop when the refs are calling a phantom foul every other time down the court? It's lame...you'd think after game 3 they would swallow their fucking whistles down the stretch and really focus and make the right calls, but nope...more of the same...how it happens I don't know, but the Mavs were given another game...that's two in a row. Fantastic.

[SA210]

How can the Spurs possibly get a defensive stop when the refs are calling a phantom foul every other time down the court? It's lame...you'd think after game 3 they would swallow their fucking whistles down the stretch and really focus and make the right calls, but nope...more of the same...how it happens I don't know, but the Mavs were given another game...that's two in a row. Fantastic.
Exactly