The Spurs Can Never Get A Stop

[Kori Ellis]

Everyone can bitch about the refs, complain about missed freethrows, and all that. But bottom line is that the Spurs can't get a stop.

Their defense is horrible right now. The mini-me lineup can't stop anyone. They switch on the pickandrolls and Duncan gets caught guarding Harris and Tony gets left on Dirk. The defense just escorts the Mavs down the lane.

I can't really blame Pop THAT much because the centers suck, but damnit the defense sucks with no bigs in the lineup (outside Tim).

Congrats to the Mavs on another victory.

[2centsworth]

We can win this series with Offense. Just need to finish, plus I never complain about the refs ever but for the first time in my life I think the spurs got robbed.

neverthess, I will be shocked if the spurs don't win this series.

[SenorSpur]

Exactly! I can't understand how a team can go through a season limiting opponents to 41% FG shooting during the season and all of a sudden the dam breaks in the playoffs.

Will Pop now go back to his more traditional lineup? Hell, his version of Nellie-ball hasn't worked so far.

Let's also not discount the turnovers. This team doesn't seem to value possessions. Because the Mavs shoot so well, if you give them additional possessions via costly turnovers and compound it by not hitting FTs, you're killing your chances of winning.

[Trainwreck2100]

We can win this series with Offense. Just need to finish, plus I never complain about the refs ever but for the first time in my life I think the spurs got robbed.

neverthess, I will be shocked if the spurs don't win this series.

Bennete Salvatore will own us all

[SA210]

"The NBA officials, they suck."

- Charles Barkley on the Spurs loss.

[SPARKY]

Maybe now Pop starts a big alongside TD. A real one. Well, one close enough.

[Horry For 3!]

I was pissed about that, there is very little effort to fight through screens and Spurs constantly get into mis-matches. I have no idea where the fuck the D has gone but it is pretty damn sad.

[DDS4]

I can live with the Spurs losing if they played their game and not the Mavs'.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

after seeing the outcome of games 2,3,4......there has to be some reason to play Nazr or Rasho for some decent minutes at the start of game 5 just to see what effect it has

[baseline bum]

The Spurs got fucked by Bavetta. Fuck trying to act like it was anything else.

[E20]

The Spurs can never get a stop because it's always a whistle that stops momentum from building up in there favor.

[SA210]

The Spurs got fucked by Bavetta. Fuck trying to act like it was anything else.
Word! :tu

[Spurologist]

Everyone can bitch about the refs, complain about missed freethrows, and all that. But bottom line is that the Spurs can't get a stop.

Their defense is horrible right now. The mini-me lineup can't stop anyone. They switch on the pickandrolls and Duncan gets caught guarding Harris and Tony gets left on Dirk. The defense just escorts the Mavs down the lane.

I can't really blame Pop THAT much because the centers suck, but damnit the defense sucks with no bigs in the lineup (outside Tim).

Congrats to the Mavs on another victory.

It was unreal the amount of contested jumpers they were making. I mean they were not wide open the whole game. The jumpers Terry hit over Duncan on the right baseline literally made me sick.

Refs sucked ass. It is what it is. Props to mavs for hitting shots. On to game 5.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

True...Our Offense from the big three was the best you could hope for. The outside shooting from the bench with our bench were all falling our way as well with 8-14 threes...

We lost because of our defense...And I hate to say it, but...maybe it's because they're quicker than us because they're younger than some of our defenders.

If it's any consolation, I remember when the Spurs were called the younger team against a tired old Laker team who got veterans to fill up their spots. And it was true, they looked very good and fast. Then the Lakers beat them, regardless of their upperhand.
3 wins isn't 4.
BELIEVE!

[windboy226]

very classy Kori...either way it was a great game by both teams-and the Mavs were lucky to get out with the win..Tim Duncan has been an absolute monster this series.

[flipcritic]

Amen Kori. I love the Spurs, but it's plain to see. The only game where the Spurs were able to hold the Mavs to less than a hundred was the first. Every game since has been a struggle (credit AJ for emphasizing Devin Harris and the rest of their speedy lineup to keep on penetraing and attacking Duncan, who is the only real low post stopper we have of late).

The Spurs bench is showing its age. We have veterans who know what it takes to hit shots, but they aren't quick enough to prevent the penetration of Dallas guards. Even the transition defense as has been terrible (Sacramento exposed that).

And it doesn't help that Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili are banged up. I'm not trying to make excuses, but there you have it. God bless Timmy and Parker, but they are in pain (I can just imagine how grimacing it must be for TD everytime he tries to go for a block).

Unless Pop finds a way to keep Dallas from getting in the paint (and he did his best by trying to go small), the Mavs are going to take it. Barry, Nick, and Finley are showing their age. Mohammed is all thumbs. And Nesterovic too slow.

Make no mistake. It ain't over. But whatever happens. Next season, the Spurs need to get younger, and healthier. Just my two cents.

[austinfan]

after seeing the outcome of games 2,3,4......there has to be some reason to play Nazr or Rasho for some decent minutes at the start of game 5 just to see what effect it has

Exactly. If Pop was willing to throw Oberto into the game the other night to see what might happen, hell, why not try Rasho next time? (I don't want Nazr anywhere near the brown spherical object known as a basketball.) And speaking of Oberto, why didn't he get any minutes tonight? He had a pretty decent game in Game 3.

It's not that the Mavs are beating us. They're a very good, but not a great team. It's that we're not playing our brand of basketball. So the woulda, coulda, shouldas are worse.

[ponky]

"The NBA officials, they suck."

- Charles Barkley on the Spurs loss.


So just so we're clear for the next game, you wanted Bennett Salvatore right? I heard a lot of posters begging for Dick Bavetta before the game and all happy about that and now look, more complaining. Instead of blaming it on the refs maybe you should do a bit more analysis of why the Spurs are losing and try to understand gameplay and matchups and the changes that need to be made. Instead of blaming the refs maybe you can understand that the Spurs AND the Mavs played well tonight. The mavs didn't play well in the first quarter but they played hard just to keep in the game the middle quarters. I'm not dissing you but it seems like some posters never talk ball they just blame the refs.

As for Charles Barkley, he changes his tune every game. Earlier tonight he said that whichever team wins the game tonight will win the series. Now he complains about the officiating because his pick didn't win. Magic Johnson said the mavs were a team to watch and knows how to analyze a matchup. I wish he was there tonight.

[Trainwreck2100]

So just so we're clear for the next game, you wanted Bennett Salvatore right? I heard a lot of posters begging for Dick Bavetta before the game and all happy about that and now look, more complaining. Instead of blaming it on the refs maybe you should do a bit more analysis of why the Spurs are losing and try to understand gameplay and matchups and the changes that need to be made. Instead of blaming the refs maybe you can understand that the Spurs AND the Mavs played well tonight. The mavs didn't play well in the first quarter but they played hard just to keep in the game the middle quarters. I'm not dissing you but it seems like some posters never talk ball they just blame the refs.

The thread you are refering to wasn't a joke, it was a declaration, it was inevitable. And nowhere in that thread did I say he would help them win. Nowhere did i say I wanted him

[jamezyjamez]

Nice game tonight; I think my voice is gone. Man, let's make this thing best of 15 and skip the rest of the Eastern Conference games! Respect to both teams for laying it all out there...it was like Rocky vs. Clubber Lang vs. Ivan Drago vs. Godzilla out there. I thought TD won it with that shot to end regulation...then Finley tries to make Cuban cry with his ridiculous shots! Overtime belonged to Jet, poor little Devean showed his youth a bit. Anyone else watch on TV? That first layup Harris made in OT...he outran the freakin' camera! All the big names from both teams showed up tonight. Can't wait for Game 5. Good luck to both teams!

[SA210]

So just so we're clear for the next game, you wanted Bennett Salvatore right? I heard a lot of posters begging for Dick Bavetta before the game and all happy about that and now look, more complaining. Instead of blaming it on the refs maybe you should do a bit more analysis of why the Spurs are losing and try to understand gameplay and matchups and the changes that need to be made. Instead of blaming the refs maybe you can understand that the Spurs AND the Mavs played well tonight. The mavs didn't play well in the first quarter but they played hard just to keep in the game the middle quarters. I'm not dissing you but it seems like some posters never talk ball they just blame the refs.
Refs > Spurs

[ponky]

The thread you are refering to wasn't a joke, it was a declaration, it was inevitable. And nowhere in that thread did I say he would help them win. Nowhere did i say I wanted him

I'm not referring to the Dick Bavetta thread from earlier today (if that was started by you). I read this in the officiating thread and some others, maybe before they were merged.

[MoSpur]

The Kings were a matchup problem. The Spur adjusted and won. The Mavs are an even harder matchup. What will the outcome be?

In my opinion, the Spurs need to go with what has given them success all the time. Defense. That means starting Rasho or Nazr. Who fives a crap about the Spurs giving up speed. The Spurs aren't doing a good job of keeping them out of the lane anyway. Why not play a zone defense with Tim and Rasho playing in the middle?

[ponky]

Refs > Spurs


Not going to answer the question are you? You REALLY wanted Salvatore so we'll see if he somehow comes through for the Spurs as you believe he will. Why don't you talk about the things that the Spurs didn't do to win the game instead of blaming the loss on the refs?

[DubMcDub]

"The NBA officials, they suck."

- Charles Barkley on the Spurs loss.

Accrediting any of your claims as being backed up by Charles Barkley is ridiculous. He's a self admitted gambling addict. He probably bet on the Spurs and is pissed off that they lost.

Just because he's on TV doesn't make everything he says legit.

[RON ARTEST]

The Spurs can never get a stop because it's always a whistle that stops momentum from building up in there favor.
no there defense just sucks. they gave up a ton of layups and dunks tonight, and left stackhouse wide open in the corner for threes all night long. it had nothing to do with whistles.

[romsho]

The Spurs have spent the last three games reacting to what the Mavericks do- the pace, style of play and personnel all reflect Dallas Maverick basketball. Since when do the Spurs get into a scorefest and win? As much as I respect Popovich, the decision to play matchup w/ Dallas as opposed to playing the way they have all year long is proving to be a huge mistake. For a team predicated on a defense first mentality, scrapping everything and playing this ridiculous smallball has these guys lost out there. For the love of God, can we get one game of Spurs basketball please?

[efrem1]

Well, I have done my pouting for tonight. Small ball, large ball. whatever. The fact is that the team was two calls away from comprehensive victory in this series. Yea, the team let it be close enough for the refs to decide, but you can't play agressive defense and be denied momentum by arbitrary calls. Hey, we got three titles and if our jugadores lose Weds. so be it. We are SPURTACUS!!!

[exstatic]

We can win this series with Offense. Just need to finish, plus I never complain about the refs ever but for the first time in my life I think the spurs got robbed.

neverthess, I will be shocked if the spurs don't win this series.
Put away the crack before the crack puts you away. Kori is right. Our defense sucks ass, and has for some time.

[M3//]

What a complete load of crap if you think the refs had nothing to do with it. Finley posterizes Dirk. What happens next? Duncan takes a charge. Does he get the respect he deserves? A three time Finals MVP taking a freaking legit charge. Does it get called? Of course not. Three point possession. Complete game swing. That call did it. Ya, they made shots, but their esteem would've been shot to the ground if the refs didn't personally pick it up for them. Way to go. Spurs in 7. This will only make the series victory even sweeter.

[Slinkyman]

we haven't "looked" like a championship calibur team all season even though people said it was "just jan." "just feb." "just march" etc. and now it's round two 3-1 dallas and we haven't shown that we are that calibur a team. I still believe we can win this series but it's gonna take alot from players who are only sub par defenders at best.

[strangeweather]

What a complete load of crap if you think the refs had nothing to do with it. Finley posterizes Dirk. What happens next? Duncan takes a charge. Does he get the respect he deserves? A three time Finals MVP taking a freaking legit charge. Does it get called? Of course not. Three point possession. Complete game swing. That call did it.

My ass. They had several chances to win it late in the game, and commited more than one crucial turnover. Even then, Duncan had the final shot. After that, they had a full overtime period to start over and win it. They didn't.

Successful teams take advantage of the opportunities they have in front of them. The Spurs get one more shot Wednesday to do it.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We made a major mistake playing their way this series.

We have always beaten the Mavs in slow-down slugfests in the past, and I thought that is exactly the way we'd try to beat them this year, with Rasho in to camp in the paint, block some shots and rough some people up, but we haven't seen any of that. WTF is Pop thinking? He's played right into AJ's hands.

Anyway, I hope we change the approach in game 5 and at least take it to 6. How about switching everything back to the way we used to play - D FIRST, INSIDE OUT.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

My ass. They had several chances to win it late in the game, and commited more than one crucial turnover. Even then, Duncan had the final shot. After that, they had a full overtime period to start over and win it. They didn't.

Successful teams take advantage of the opportunities they have in front of them. The Spurs get one more shot Wednesday to do it.
True...Mentally they have to get the job done on Game 5...Tim and Co. Should call Steve Nash about what it felt like to be down 3-1. Even The SUNS for christ sake, made the necessary stops and played temporary D for that series...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

we haven't "looked" like a championship calibur team all season even though people said it was "just jan." "just feb." "just march" etc. and now it's round two 3-1 dallas and we haven't shown that we are that calibur a team. I still believe we can win this series but it's gonna take alot from players who are only sub par defenders at best.

Oh, and that is the truth. We never really gelled this year, God knows how we won 63 games. The 2003 or 2005 Spurs would trounce this team because they really gelled, and they were clutch as hell. These guys just aren't there.

Time to jetison the old guys and bring in some youth and athleticism - thankfully we have the Big 3 to build around, so the transition shouldn't be too hard.

[austinfan]

We made a major mistake playing their way this series.

We have always beaten the Mavs in slow-down slugfests in the past, and I thought that is exactly the way we'd try to beat them this year, with Rasho in to camp in the paint, block some shots and rough some people up, but we haven't seen any of that. WTF is Pop thinking? He's played right into AJ's hands.

Anyway, I hope we change the approach in game 5 and at least take it to 6. How about switching everything back to the way we used to play - D FIRST, INSIDE OUT.

What can it hurt us at this point to go back to the bigger line up? We're the underdogs now and historically the odds are against us. If for no other reason, Pop ought to go back to the "tall ball" just for shits and grins, to see how the Mavericks react. Because they've figured out our small ball routine pretty thoroughly by now.

[strangeweather]

What can it hurt us at this point to go back to the bigger line up? We're the underdogs now and historically the odds are against us. If for no other reason, Pop ought to go back to the "tall ball" just for shits and grins, to see how the Mavericks react. Because they've figured out our small ball routine pretty thoroughly by now.

Fuck it. Put Rasho in the lineup. He can camp out inside all day long covering the immobile Dallas centers.

Put Timmy all over Howard's skinny ass. Howard isn't that much of an outside threat, which means Tim can sag into the lane and help punish the shit out of punks like Harris when they try to penetrate.

With two guys in the paint, go back to old-school Spurs ball and superglue defenders to the rest of the motherfuckers. Rebound the shit out of the ball, don't give them anything outside, and don't give them anything inside.

[Nbadan]

If the Spurs have to rely on Rasho to win this series, it really is over.

[Streakyshooter08]

I would go back to the traditional lineup also. Start Rasho, Tim, Bowen, Manu and Tony

Bring Finley, Barry and Horry off the bench. Barry should be their backup PG. Leave NVE OUT OF THE GAME.

I would put Rasho or Tim on Dirk and let him score. Shut down the REST of the team!!!Of course you could mix it up during the game and use the small lineup over certain stretches and put Bowen on him.

Amare scored like 40 PPG last year and we still won. We are down 3-1, if we can't beat them with small ball... go back to the normal lineup, there is nothing to lose anymore...

GO SPURS GO...

[Vashner]

Need More D Fence

This is why I wanted Malik to stay... he used to wear down people like this.. too bad he could not get along with the Pop.


Maybe we should Ditch Believe for D FENCE ... (typo'ed in honor of Coyote)

[picnroll]

17 of the last 21 points at the FT line in game 3. 9 of the last 12 points at the FT line in game 4. Several of those not even questionably bad calls. Tough to play FT line defense.

[picnroll]

Getting stops in the fourth. The Mavs in the last two games in the fourth shot a combined 12 of 29 from the field or .413. They did, however, go to the FT line 35 times.

[dougp]

I'm sorry, but to those of y'all who are saying this loss is on the Spurs, not the refs - quit being NBA Homers ... this is bullshit, there were the EXACT TWO CALLS that have won 3 & 4 for the Mavericks, Dirk charges on Timmy. Period, it put the Mavs ahead by 1 in 3, and tied the game in 4. If you can't see the blatant calls, then please consider switching your allegiances ...

[WalterBenitez]

Ok

We have the material, 3 ASG 1 of them a Superstar a deffensive specialist and 3ps shooters ... doesn't sound bad ...am I right :king

However... our defense is not working anymore or our opponents discovered (learnt or whatever reason) our weak points, so... we saw in Dallas Pic 'n rolls, screens, speed ... hmmm :oops

Bring here any FIBA's coach acustom to use that; prepare a decent defense for next year ...in terms of defense only Bruce is working a his level, then you got Manu stealing balls, TD is not as dominant as used to be and TP is being destroyed in his field ... speed on the paint with that combination a FIBA's coach will recomend ... hey boy goto zone, I know NBA's rules doesn't allow it in the extrict sense of the word but come on do sth.

A poster here has an avatarwith Oberto and "6 fouls to give" ... I am asking how we use those fouls, we need to send messages out there, did you see how Manu and TP are received in the other side; I am not talking about violence I'd love to know how many of our fouls didn't stop a basket. :angel

Since I am finishig my breakfast there's another possible reason is jumping in my mind ... probably ... MAV is a better team and very well coached :(

[totalspurshomer]

What a complete load of crap if you think the refs had nothing to do with it. Finley posterizes Dirk. What happens next? Duncan takes a charge. Does he get the respect he deserves? A three time Finals MVP taking a freaking legit charge. Does it get called? Of course not.
That all sounds fine and dandy...until you remember the FACT that, to get a charge, your feet can't be moving when you get hit. And, on the overhead replay, Duncan was CLEARLY still sliding when he got hit. All the announcers focused on was "feet outside the circle", but even they didn't mention his feet were still moving.

And those "NBA hates us" bad calls don't outweigh late game, silly mistakes like a really crappy inbounds pass, Tim's last shot in regulation where he abandoned both his automatic bank shot AND his superior athletic drive moves in favor of a lower percentage turning jump hook. :rolleyes

I've also read where the bogus call on Bowen costs us the game, because if they don't call it, then "game over" at that point. HUH? Yes it was the wrong call, but you can't assume Dirk wouldn't have kept driving and scored, or passed for a score, without hearing a whistle.

[Trifecta]

My thought going to bed last night was that the Spurs could NOT GET A STOP ON D!!!

Committed crucial turnover late in game by Barry -- gave up offensive rebound late in the game!!

People said before the game that Tony needed to show up this game on offense -- HE DID!

Someone forgot to tell the Defense the same!!!

That's it plain and simple -- No credible center to help Tim!!!!

POPs not making any adjustments! Pic-N-Roll defense sucks!!!!

Heck -- gut the coaching staff and get some people in there who know how to make a freakin' adjustment!!!

The organization needs to gut the bench and come up with some younger quicker players along with a REAL CENTER!!!!

Where are those "project draft choices"? Get them in here and lets improve this team!

[picnroll]

That all sounds fine and dandy...until you remember the FACT that, to get a charge, your feet can't be moving when you get hit. And, on the overhead replay, Duncan was CLEARLY still sliding when he got hit. All the announcers focused on was "feet outside the circle", but even they didn't mention his feet were still moving.

And those "NBA hates us" bad calls don't outweigh late game, silly mistakes like a really crappy inbounds pass, Tim's last shot in regulation where he abandoned both his automatic bank shot AND his superior athletic drive moves in favor of a lower percentage turning jump hook. :rolleyes

I've also read where the bogus call on Bowen costs us the game, because if they don't call it, then "game over" at that point. HUH? Yes it was the wrong call, but you can't assume Dirk wouldn't have kept driving and scored, or passed for a score, without hearing a whistle.
Hey totlaspurshomer wondering about your name and favorite team when your posts show you an obvious Rockets fan and most of your posts relating to the Spurs are dergatory toward them. And oh yeah Duncan was stationary fool.

[totalspurshomer]

Actually, I follow the Spurs, Rockets, and Mavs(Texas baby), in that order, over other NBA teams. I took the name totalspurshomer because I noticed that, at times like these or when comparing "best evers, etc", alot of posters and fans around town see everything through silver and black glasses(the refs jobbed us, the NBA and media hate us, etc). Obviously, I understand this is a Spurs board and SA. I'm glad there's 100% backing of the Spurs. Part of my intent is simply to provide a more balanced, more objective view by commenting without the silver and black glasses.

There's no hate or bad feelings intended. Sorry you feel that way.

And it's hard to agree on the charge call when I see Tim moving across my TV screen when contact occurs(on the overhead replay).


PS...and obviously it's not all homerism all the time by all the fans. That's one of the reasons I enjoy this board. Not to brown nose, but Kori's a great example of a die hard Spurs fan who always seems able to discuss Spurs vs "other teams" in even handed terms(look at this thread title as an example). And it's amusing to think that, in the same household, is timvp who is also a die hard Spurs fan, but views things, shall we say, a "tad" more silver and black. :lol You don't always see other boards' honchos so fair minded.

[T Park]

As much as I respect Popovich, the decision to play matchup w/ Dallas as opposed to playing the way they have all year long is proving to be a huge mistake

That would be a fine arguement, if he had a good bigman to PLAY that he isn't playing.


I don't understand this.

People want better defense, so they ask for Mohammed to play!?!?

WTF!?!?

[blaze89]

If we play Mohammed and Nesterovic, who do they defend? They just can't stand under the basket and wait...

[SequSpur]

This lineup couldn't win 40 games.

[strangeweather]

If we play Mohammed and Nesterovic, who do they defend? They just can't stand under the basket and wait...

They can if they're guarding Damp and Diop.

[picnroll]

They can if they're guarding Damp and Diop.
And who does Duncan guard? Howard? Stackhouse? Please don't say Dirk for 48 minutes who will simply take Duncan out of the paint and when Duncan breathes on him the refs will call a foul. If Duncan is on anyone but Damp or Diop you lose his defensive rebounding and post protection.

Pop is doing the best he can with the horses he has. He's doing a masterful job given the flaws of this team. The Spurs would be up three to one if the bad calls were even throughout this series which is a testament to his coaching brilliance.

Fact is this team has some major flaws. Bad draft luck and bad personell aqcquisiton decisions dating back to the Kidd fiasco have eroded the team. Presti, Buford and Pop will have to work some magic in the off season to correct these flaws.

[ducks]

I am still in awe of the box score and still can not believe they lost

[Jimcs50]

They got stops...the refs put Dirk on the line. Nuff said

[greensborohill]

We can win this series with Offense. Just need to finish, plus I never complain about the refs ever but for the first time in my life I think the spurs got robbed.

neverthess, I will be shocked if the spurs don't win this series.

What in holly hell makes you say that? Have you not seen enough evidence to know that if the game gets up into the 100's you will lose?

[strangeweather]

And who does Duncan guard? Howard? Stackhouse? Please don't say Dirk for 48 minutes who will simply take Duncan out of the paint and when Duncan breathes on him the refs will call a foul. If Duncan is on anyone but Damp or Diop you lose his defensive rebounding and post protection.

Duncan on Howard. And sag off him into the lane. If Howard can beat us with outside shots, so be it.


Pop is doing the best he can with the horses he has. He's doing a masterful job given the flaws of this team.

I'm not second guessing Pop. I've been behind him the whole way. But it's time to admit that what we've been doing hasn't been good enough and go another way.


Fact is this team has some major flaws. Bad draft luck and bad personell aqcquisiton decisions dating back to the Kidd fiasco have eroded the team. Presti, Buford and Pop will have to work some magic in the off season to correct these flaws.

Maybe so. But we still have one more chance to get back in this thing, and I want to do the best we can with it. There will be plenty of time for the offseason later.

[picnroll]

What in holly hell makes you say that? Have you not seen enough evidence to know that if the game gets up into the 100's you will lose?
I've seen enough evidence that unless the Spurs are winning by a blowout in the fourth that the Mavericks will win it at the FT line.