Peter Vescey: Beware: Spurs Are Mad

[ducks]

PETER VESCEY: BEWARE: SPURS ARE MAD
BEWARE: SPURS ARE MAD

By PETER VECSEY

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May 17, 2006 -- ANY demonic thoughts that the Spurs may have left it all in Dallas following two perforated gut checks that leave them one loss away from officially being dethroned need to be instantly exorcised.

If the Mavericks think the barbed-wire barrier they cleared Monday in taking a 3-1 series advantage was razor rigid, wait until Gregg Popovich's wounded players get a whiff of Avery Johnson's huntsmen in Game 5.

If Dallas thinks its riddled target was a road kill in Game 4, imagine how ornery and obstinate the Spurs figure to be in Game 6.

And I think we all know whose side the percentages (and the refs) are on should a Game 7 in San Antonio be necessary.

OK, you're right; only eight teams in NBA history have ever rebounded all the way back and then some from a 1-3 deficit. What makes me believe the Spurs have any chance to overcome those odds?

Because the past has nothing to do with what went on Monday night, what'll happen on the court tonight, and what's going on in the resilient minds of a championship squad secure in its superiority and whose wagons are circled in adversity. The Spurs can't play any better than they did in Monday night's remarkably entertaining and combative overtime loss. In fact, it's hard, I concede, to believe they've played a better game all season.

Tim Duncan, Tony Parker (if you can overlook his five turnovers, five missed free throws, including two killers late in OT), Manu Ginobili and Michael Finley (out to prove he's worth the money the Spurs are paying him) performed at an unbeatable level. Yet they got beat by the drama class of Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse and Devin Harris.

What makes me think the Spurs, knowing what a harrowing commitment it takes to win three playoff games in a row, aren't in the mood to acquiesce?

Because, experience tells me, a team that's seething isn't about surrendering.

The Spurs are fuming at themselves for malfunctioning on costly late-game handoffs in the last two losses, and not swallowing up crucial rebounds.

Duncan is furious with himself for failing to hit the game-winner, a fairly uncomplicated jump hook from 12 feet out at the end of regulation in Game 4.

Popovich is outraged by numerous questionable calls, but stopped short of verbally challenging referee Dick Bavetta immediately after the 123-118 defeat, waving him off instead. He's also probably shell-shocked he's the one who has had to adjust (going with short people and Duncan at center to counterbalance the Mavs' quickness) when it has been the other way around since (this is Pop's line) the breakup of the Soviet Union - Shaq & Kobe.

Duncan feels he got stiffed when assessed his sixth foul with a few minutes left in Game 3 - sending Nowitzki to the welfare line - and there's every reason to second his consternation.

Bruce Bowen feels he got jobbed with 8.5 seconds left in the fourth quarter of Game 4, again putting Nowitzki in perfect position to stalemate matters. Afterward, he went directly to the midcourt area where David Stern (on border patrol) was seated and shouted, "This is terrible!"

Ginobili appeared exasperated, having fouled out in only 26:42, though I'm unsure who upset him most, the refs or Popovich, who didn't start Manu for the second straight game, ahem, loss. I can't remember Ginobili playing better - 4-for-4 from 3-point range, four steals and at lest four other near-thefts.

An insolent Duncan offered a one word answer about his team's missed free throws and was gone. Parker and Ginobili made themselves unavailable for comment. The talking portion of the series is over. It's time to stop playing around or get slayed.

There are some forces that defy advice, anticipation and an alarm system. The Spurs are one of them.

No matter what acute state of readiness the Mavs are in, no matter how well Avery Johnson has primed them, no matter how much they think they know, they're not going to appreciate how hard it to finish the job until they've suffered through it.

[SPARKY]

Win Game 5 and the pressure shifts.

[CharlieMac]

Yeah, that piece was motivating.

[pache100]

Well, I for one would sure like to see some of that "mad" channeled into their game and the fruition be a WIN! "Mad" doesn't count unless you frickin' do something with it.

[ducks]

dallas has all the pressure to close this deal the longer they can not do it
the more pressure and those jumpshots could be short

[picnroll]

I truly hope that if the refs pull the shit they pulled in Dallas in the AT&T that there' a fucking riot. Maybe that will get Stern's attention and some accountability. Chances are the league knows they have no rooming for fucking the Spurs in SA so the reffing will lean the other way.

[degenerate_gambler]

I hate Peter Vescey..

[1Parker1]

I thought they were mad and motivated in Game 4, didn't look like it in OT :pctoss

[johnut32]

Good article.

He hits the nail on the head. The spurs (much like their fans) are unwavering in their feeling of superiority over the Mavs (with good reason considering their accomplishments). One thing that none of us can be certain about, is the Spurs reaction to their anger. Jettisoning the "victim" complex is the first step towards success in this series. Regardless of how Bowen felt about the refs call at the end of game 4, he shouldn't have taken it upon himself to complain to Stern. These comments are no reflection on the validity of the call but rather Bowen's reaction to it. The action of taking it upon himself to complain while the game could still be won, is the wrong mindset. In order to get back into this series the Spurs have to be less consumed with the officitiating.

We caught a glimpse of what Duncan, Ginobilli, and Parker's mindset might be by their post game comments (or lack their of) Monday night. The spurs need an unconcerned attitude towards the officiating. Controlled anger focused on execution and effort will allow the Spurs to win every game.

As a Mavs fan, I thought this series would stretch to 7 games all along. I'm interested if the Mavs can keep their composure and play with confidence through the 4th quarter. They did this on Monday night but they'll need to maintain their composure in order to eliminate the defending champs.

As a side note, I was at game 4 and sat next to some outstanding Spurs fans. They were knowledgeable, respectful, and had a good time. I also saw a drunk spurs fan yelling about "latino pride" at the top of his lungs in the restroom, concourse and during the game. At the same time, I saw Mavs fans berate spurs fans for no reason. Point being, there are good and bad fans everywhere but at the end of the day, we're all Texans. Ain't that great.

[picnroll]

Shellshocked. Couldn't believe they were getting screwed twice in a row in the same way.

[Shank]

Another fluff piece.

[gingko]

Vescey does make sense in this article, and I am sure most Mavs players and hopefully the fans realize it ain't even close to over, but I did think this quote was funny/ironic:

Michael Finley (out to prove he's worth the money the Spurs are paying him) performed at an unbeatable level.

The Spurs aren't even paying him half what the Mavericks are this year.

And while Vescey makes some good points, his historic dislike for the Mavs does show up in his dismissal of the Mavs also having resolute, talented, and motivated players. I doubt the Spurs players have the sam mindset.

[DarrinS]

And while Vescey makes some good points, his historic dislike for the Mavs does show up in his dismissal of the Mavs also having resolute, talented, and motivated players. I doubt the Spurs players have the sam mindset.


Unlike Stern, Vescey is not a big fan of the pussification of the NBA.

If you're a Spurs player, how could you not be absolutely pissed about what happened in the last two games. Two games that ended with highly suspect calls. This sounds like whining, but a lot of people in the media have been talking about it -- not just SA media.

If tonights game starts with several ticky-tack foul calls, followed by several travelling calls, the Spurs will be in for a long night. If it's close at the end, just give the ball to Dork and he'll probably get to the charity stripe, yet again. Or, give it to Terry, and maybe he'll wait to get grazed by Ginobilli and react like he was shot in the back by a tazer gun. If the game ends like that, then maybe, just maybe, Stern's goal of the pussifying the NBA will be complete.

[johnut32]

I like the high scoring NBA of the 80's (it's what I grew up on). That's why I love the Suns and Mavs style of play. I don't think that's a pussification of the NBA but rather an adherence to the rules.

The situation you just described is exactly what might get the Spurs eliminated. Every successful team plays through the refs. The spurs have done it in the past and they need to do it again if they want to advance.

[picnroll]

My gloomy prediction. Dallas will get a bit of a hosing in SA, probably along the lines of calling the fouls that Damp and Diop actuully are committing but haven't been getting called. Maybe they even call Dirk for some over the backs or push offs with the forearm. Spurs win comfortably. Lots of whining by Dallas fans and press. Then it's back to Dallas where they give the Spurs another screwing to close out the series. Nothing as blatant as the end of the game crap that's been happening. More like early foul trouble for Ducan to let the Mavs take control of the game. You heard it here first.

[SPARKY]

I like the high scoring NBA of the 80's (it's what I grew up on). That's why I love the Suns and Mavs style of play. I don't think that's a pussification of the NBA but rather an adherence to the rules.

The situation you just described is exactly what might get the Spurs eliminated. Every successful team plays through the refs. The spurs have done it in the past and they need to do it again if they want to advance.

Rather ironic considering that Nowitzki has been to the line 46 times in the last 3 games.

[johnut32]

Duncan has been to the line 43 times.

What's your point?

[Jimcs50]

Win Game 5 and the pressure shifts.

No, the pressure would still be on SA, they can not lose any more games, Dallas would have 2 games to win one....but first things first.

[CosmicCowboy]

I am so ready for this fucking game to start.

[Jimcs50]

I am so ready for this fucking game to start.

I am nervous as hell, myself.

I have wagered a case of beer with one guy and $20 a game in games 3 and 4, with another buddy, so I really think I am a jinx here.

What can I do to reverse the jinx??????

[1Parker1]

What can I do to reverse the jinx??????

How about STFU :)

[SPARKY]

Duncan has been to the line 43 times.

What's your point?

Which one is the jumpshooting 7 footer who plays 20 feet from the rim and which one is one of the top post players of this era? Not hard to figure out.

Anyways, your point was that the Spurs lived through the refs. Well, I guess the Mavs are deviating from 'championship quality' basketball as well.

[Russ]

This makes me nervous. Vescey only writes about things that are real longshots. :lol :lol :lol

[Jimcs50]

Good news

The Rangers blew a 9-0 lead to Yankees last night and the odds of that are even worse than coming back from 3-1.

I think the city of Dallas is still suffering from the JFK curse.

I can only hope so.

[Jimcs50]

How about STFU :)


too late, the bets were made.

[SPARKY]

This makes me nervous. Vescey only writes about things that are real longshots. :lol :lol :lol

Indeed.

[picnroll]

Duncan has been to the line 43 times.

What's your point?
If they called the hacks and holds it would be 143. Duncan takes more fouls in a quarter than Dirk has in this entire series but that candy assed flopper has been to the line 53 time. That's on 73 shots for Dirk and 100 for Duncan, and that's in a series where your coach said they have three big men on Duncan and with plenty of fouls to give. What's your point.

[NoMoneyDown]

If they called the hacks and holds it would be 143. Duncan takes more fouls in a quarter than Dirk has in this entire series but that candy assed flopper has been to the line 53 time. That's on 73 shots for Dirk and 100 for Duncan, and that's in a series where your coach said they have three big men on Duncan and with plenty of fouls to give. What's your point.

:tu

[DarrinS]

I like the high scoring NBA of the 80's (it's what I grew up on). That's why I love the Suns and Mavs style of play. I don't think that's a pussification of the NBA but rather an adherence to the rules.



What does high scoring have to do with "adherence to the rules"? Your team has gotten a little better this year because you have a coach with a DEFENSIVE MINDSET.


Defense wins championships. Period. Is it fun to watch two teams run up and down the court, jacking up 3's on every possession? I guess it is to some people.

[johnut32]

If they called the hacks and holds it would be 143. Duncan takes more fouls in a quarter than Dirk has in this entire series but that candy assed flopper has been to the line 53 time. That's on 73 shots for Dirk and 100 for Duncan, and that's in a series where your coach said they have three big men on Duncan and with plenty of fouls to give. What's your point.

Dirk draws fouls by posting up from the freethrow line and either penetrating or taking the open shot. He draws the same types of fouls Duncan does albeit 10 feet farther from the hole. That doesn't qualify him as a pure "jumpshooter" (although he does have a great shot).

Although you'll never admit it, Duncan is the beneficiary of numerous questionable calls. The mavs aren't intentionally fouling Duncan but rather have a realistic attitude towards the type of calls Duncan recieves. That requires two centers with 12 fouls to give. Since these centers have either been fouling out or close to it in every single game...what's your point?

[pussyface]

"Because the past has nothing to do with what went on Monday night, what'll happen on the court tonight, and what's going on in the resilient minds of a championship squad secure in its superiority and whose wagons are circled in adversity."

In one breath the past has nothing to do with this series, in another the Spurs' oast as champions is incredibly relevent. Vescey is clueless.

[johnut32]

What does high scoring have to do with "adherence to the rules"? Your team has gotten a little better this year because you have a coach with a DEFENSIVE MINDSET.


Defense wins championships. Period. Is it fun to watch two teams run up and down the court, jacking up 3's on every possession? I guess it is to some people.

We've gotten better defensively in order to defeat the spurs. The current trend in the NBA favors aggressive defense that allows for a certain number of no calls (i.e. Bowen's defense).

You're right, defense does win championships, at times. The Lakers and Celtics of the 80's are proof positive that defense doesn't always win championships.

[leemajors]

We've gotten better defensively in order to defeat the spurs. The current trend in the NBA favors aggressive defense that allows for a certain number of no calls (i.e. Bowen's defense).

You're right, defense does win championships, at times. The Lakers and Celtics of the 80's are proof positive that defense doesn't always win championships.


i would agree with the first statement to an extent, but the mavs haven't been playing much defense the last 2 games. they have been taking the spurs out of their defense with their offense.

[SPARKY]

Dirk draws fouls by posting up from the freethrow line

Thankfully I just finished my coffee. :spin




and either penetrating or taking the open shot. He draws the same types of fouls Duncan does albeit 10 feet farther from the hole. That doesn't qualify him as a pure "jumpshooter" (although he does have a great shot).


He doesn't play in the post. Stop kidding yourself.




Although you'll never admit it, Duncan is the beneficiary of numerous questionable calls. The mavs aren't intentionally fouling Duncan but rather have a realistic attitude towards the type of calls Duncan recieves. That requires two centers with 12 fouls to give. Since these centers have either been fouling out or close to it in every single game...what's your point?

Because post players are more likely to get contact and calls than a guy who's shooting 20 foot fadeaway Js. Basketball 101.

[johnut32]

At the end of the day, the spurs need to forget the officiating and concentrate on executing. Many fans on this forum are blaming the losses on the refs yet the Spurs had opportunities to win games 3 and 4 but didn't execute. That's what I mean by "playing through the refs". Whether or not the spurs are receiving bad calls, it hasn't been a determinative factor in this series.

[DarrinS]

The current trend in the NBA favors aggressive defense that allows for a certain number of no calls (i.e. Bowen's defense).


Dude, WTF are you talking about ("allows for a certain number of no calls")? There should be more "no calls" because it's the DAMN PLAYOFFS. For an example of how to call a playoff game, witness last nights game between the Suns and the Clips. That got physical, but they let the players decide the game.

Yes, Bowen is an aggressive defensive player. His job is to harass perimeter shooters and he is one of the best at it.

[johnut32]

Thankfully I just finished my coffee. :spin




He doesn't play in the post. Stop kidding yourself.




Because post players are more likely to get contact and calls than a guy who's shooting 20 foot fadeaway Js. Basketball 101.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you to a certain extent but basketball 101 also includes the high post. One reason dirk drew the call on Bowen (not addressing the validity of the call) was because he was backing down Bowen from the high post.

Your logic falls apart when you ignore Dirk's ability to penetrate. He does this frequently and draws a number of fouls in the process.

[SPARKY]

Lots of other players penetrate. Where are their calls?

Anyways, the post player tends to outdraw the penetrator, by a significant margin.

[johnut32]

Dude, WTF are you talking about ("allows for a certain number of no calls")? There should be more "no calls" because it's the DAMN PLAYOFFS. For an example of how to call a playoff game, witness last nights game between the Suns and the Clips. That got physical, but they let the players decide the game.

Yes, Bowen is an aggressive defensive player. His job is to harass perimeter shooters and he is one of the best at it.

You're right, the trend is to allow for aggressive play. That hasn't always been the case. One could argue that not allowing for fouls, IS allowing the players to decide the game.

[johnut32]

Lots of other players penetrate. Where are their calls?

Anyways, the post player tends to outdraw the penetrator, by a significant margin.

Few (if any) players are able to achieve the type of advantage that Dirk has when reaching the rack. His height draws plenty of hard fouls. That's what makes Dirk such a tough matchup and the reason he draws so many fouls.

On a side note, I believe that both Duncan and Dirk deserve the calls they receive. They both present unique advantages that draw plenty of fouls.

[maddnezz]

Duncan has been to the line 43 times.

What's your point?
The point is when Dirk gets "fouled?" the player is face to face away from the basket with minimal contact unless Dirk(who is very smart for doing this)leans in with the elbow does that fake stumble footwork that is 50% of the time a travel, bumps the defender, fades away while kicking his foot just for good measures ala Karl Malone and gets a call. I do believe he gets fouled sometimes, but never, and I mean all homerism aside, never as much as Tim, on the block, in the paint with Dampier or Diop holding, leaning on,Pulling jer knee in the tailbone, and pulling on jerseys. I will admit to my team' :fro s fouls , can you?

[picnroll]

Dirk draws fouls by posting up from the freethrow line and either penetrating or taking the open shot. He draws the same types of fouls Duncan does albeit 10 feet farther from the hole. That doesn't qualify him as a pure "jumpshooter" (although he does have a great shot).

Although you'll never admit it, Duncan is the beneficiary of numerous questionable calls. The mavs aren't intentionally fouling Duncan but rather have a realistic attitude towards the type of calls Duncan recieves. That requires two centers with 12 fouls to give. Since these centers have either been fouling out or close to it in every single game...what's your point?
LMFAO. Dirk draws the same fouls as Reggie Miller but even lamer because he doesn't have 1/10th the coordination.

[johnut32]

The point is when Dirk gets "fouled?" the player is face to face away from the basket with minimal contact unless Dirk(who is very smart for doing this)leans in with the elbow does that fake stumble footwork that is 50% of the time a travel, bumps the defender, fades away while kicking his foot just for good measures ala Karl Malone and gets a call. I do believe he gets fouled sometimes, but never, and I mean all homerism aside, never as much as Tim, on the block, in the paint with Dampier or Diop holding, leaning on,Pulling jer knee in the tailbone, and pulling on jerseys. I will admit to my team' :fro s fouls , can you?

I'll agree that Diop and Damp are fouling Duncan a vast majority of the time. Duncan deserves almost all of the calls he receives.

However, your charcterization of the calls Dirk receives is ridiculous. Dirk is the recepient of the most aggressive perimeter defense in the league. He draws alot of fouls and deserves almost all of them.

[SPARKY]

Few (if any) players are able to achieve the type of advantage that Dirk has when reaching the rack. His height draws plenty of hard fouls. That's what makes Dirk such a tough matchup and the reason he draws so many fouls.

On a side note, I believe that both Duncan and Dirk deserve the calls they receive. They both present unique advantages that draw plenty of fouls.

His height isn't that big of a deal. What matters primarily at the rim is elevation. There are plenty of guys at 6'6" who present a greater challenge vertically than him.

[twincam]

Since I won't be at the game tonight...I will most definetly have my home theater system on high volume and the 60" big screen ready to go.....
That's the closest I'll get to being around the fan at the AT&T Center. This will be a great measuring tool on how well the Spurs have adjusted to the Mavs offense. The Spurs MUST win this game in a major blow out...not close game. A close game is simply not what they want, even if they win. If they want to make that major statement, it must be in a major blow out. It's on for tonight. 63-win season should mean something for them. Otherwise, they should have just won enough to make #8 seed. It's do or die for tonight. Just one word will sum up this thread, and it's something that hasn't been mentioned much at all which makes the Spurs what they should be:

POISE

[101A]

At the end of the day, the spurs need to forget the officiating and concentrate on executing. Many fans on this forum are blaming the losses on the refs yet the Spurs had opportunities to win games 3 and 4 but didn't execute. That's what I mean by "playing through the refs". Whether or not the spurs are receiving bad calls, it hasn't been a determinative factor in this series.

The Spurs have made clutch shots in each game. Problem is, everytime the Spurs make a shot, it is followed by FT's for Dirk; AND the Spurs have to make yet another "clutch" shot - ad infinitem, until the Spurs miss, at which point: "Well they had there chance".

This series is actually VERY similar to the Phoenix series last year; High scoring affairs, where the Spurs better execution and defense down the stretch would allow them to pull out a close W. The way the games are being called (being generous here) are what have changed that dynamic.

[johnut32]

His height isn't that big of a deal. What matters primarily at the rim is elevation. There are plenty of guys at 6'6" who present a greater challenge vertically than him.

A quick and agile 7 footer taking up space while penetrating is a much bigger deal than even the best high risers.

[SPARKY]

A quick and agile 7 footer taking up space while penetrating is a much bigger deal than even the best high risers.

Not at all. There's no real difference at the rim.

[picnroll]

Few (if any) players are able to achieve the type of advantage that Dirk has when reaching the rack. His height draws plenty of hard fouls. That's what makes Dirk such a tough matchup and the reason he draws so many fouls.

On a side note, I believe that both Duncan and Dirk deserve the calls they receive. They both present unique advantages that draw plenty of fouls.
Dirk and hard foul should never be used in a sentence together without a no, never, not, nein, nyet or some other negative. It's okay to use pussy, vagina, wimp, etc..

[johnut32]

The Spurs have made clutch shots in each game. Problem is, everytime the Spurs make a shot, it is followed by FT's for Dirk; AND the Spurs have to make yet another "clutch" shot - ad infinitem, until the Spurs miss, at which point: "Well they had there chance".

This series is actually VERY similar to the Phoenix series last year; High scoring affairs, where the Spurs better execution and defense down the stretch would allow them to pull out a close W. The way the games are being called (being generous here) are what have changed that dynamic.

I guess I've seen more opportunities than you. From bad inbounds plays, turnovers, missed freethrows, and missed shots, I think the spurs have had plenty of opportunities.

I'm just concerned that the spurs will remedy these small mistakes in time to take this series.

[johnut32]

Not at all. There's no real difference at the rim.

By that logic, Tracy McGrady is more effective at the rack, while drawing contact, than Duncan?

That's a negative.

[johnut32]

Since I won't be at the game tonight...I will most definetly have my home theater system on high volume and the 60" big screen ready to go.....
That's the closest I'll get to being around the fan at the AT&T Center. This will be a great measuring tool on how well the Spurs have adjusted to the Mavs offense. The Spurs MUST win this game in a major blow out...not close game. A close game is simply not what they want, even if they win. If they want to make that major statement, it must be in a major blow out. It's on for tonight. 63-win season should mean something for them. Otherwise, they should have just won enough to make #8 seed. It's do or die for tonight. Just one word will sum up this thread, and it's something that hasn't been mentioned much at all which makes the Spurs what they should be:

POISE

I don't think the spurs need a blowout. The spurs already have confidence bu they've been missing your last word "poise". If they regain it, it's a totally different series.

[velik_m]

spurs need focus not anger.

[picnroll]

I guess I've seen more opportunities than you. From bad inbounds plays, turnovers, missed freethrows, and missed shots, I think the spurs have had plenty of opportunities.

I'm just concerned that the spurs will remedy these small mistakes in time to take this series.
Yep, If the Spurs play a perfect game, no turnovers, no missed layups, no missed FTs, allow no Mavs offensive rebounds, iId say they have a very good chance of beating the Mavs and the refs.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

win GM5 and all the pressure is on Dallas

because they know if they don't win GM6 they will certainly lose in GM7 @ SA



and let's stop the Dirk crying already, I remember last postseason when Manu would go the line every damn time and get the opposing team in foul trouble. Manu needs to counter Dirk by flopping just as much





SPURS IN 7!!!!!!

[twincam]

I don't think the spurs need a blowout. The spurs already have confidence bu they've been missing your last word "poise". If they regain it, it's a totally different series.

Thank you sir...I respect your feedback

[boutons_]

A convincing, dominating Spurs' win in Game5 will do wonders to shift the momentum toward the Spurs, and all the pressure onto the Mavs.

Then we'll see some amazing basketball for Game6, with all the Mavs and fans expecting it to be the elmination game. yep, Spurs win Game6, and Mavs are eliminated.

"he was backing down Bowen from the high post."

bullshit, Dirk was facing Bruce and forearming Bruce. Does amazing Dirk have a forearm coming out of his ass?

[kalikot_boy_kr]

spurs win game 7....i know it...

[johnut32]

A convincing, dominating Spurs' win in Game5 will do wonders to shift the momentum toward the Spurs, and all the pressure onto the Mavs.

Then we'll see some amazing basketball for Game6, with all the Mavs and fans expecting it to be the elmination game. yep, Spurs win Game6, and Mavs are eliminated.

"he was backing down Bowen from the high post."

bullshit, Dirk was facing Bruce and forearming Bruce. Does amazing Dirk have a forearm coming out of his ass?

No, but the fact that you can't conceive how a forearm is involved in backing someone down is all I need to know.

[leemajors]

No, but the fact that you can't conceive how a forearm is involved in backing someone down is all I need to know.

it wasn't a forearm, it was an elbow thrown in bruce's chest twice to move him. that is not legal. if he was even attempting to use his bosy to back him down, that would be fine. but he wasn't.

[JamStone]

Spurs fans should be worried.

When is Peter Vescey ever right?

[leemajors]

Spurs fans should be worried.

When is Peter Vescey ever right?

this is very true.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Spurs fans should be worried.

When is Peter Vescey ever right?

:lol

[picnroll]

Spurs fans should be worried.

When is Peter Vescey ever right?
We're working on the blind hoog theory here.

[LEONARD]

Which one is the jumpshooting 7 footer who plays 20 feet from the rim and which one is one of the top post players of this era? Not hard to figure out.

Anyways, your point was that the Spurs lived through the refs. Well, I guess the Mavs are deviating from 'championship quality' basketball as well.

LOL...Dirk has gone to the rim so much in this series, how can anybody say he's just a jumpshooter??? :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

No, but the fact that you can't conceive how a forearm is involved in backing someone down is all I need to know.

Generally, if a leading forearm dislodges a defender, it's an offensive foul. Except, of course, in the final 10 seconds of a playoff game in which an all-league defender is called for a touch foul 18 feet from the basket against a guy who wasn't even yet shooting.

Again, officiating hasn't cost the Spurs anything; but it damned sure hasn't helped them at all.

[Jimcs50]

LOL...Dirk has gone to the rim so much in this series, how can anybody say he's just a jumpshooter??? :lol


Chicken or the egg???

Dirk is going to the rim, BECAUSE he keeps getting every call.

duh!

[LEONARD]

Chicken or the egg???

Dirk is going to the rim, BECAUSE he keeps getting every call.

duh!

Dirk has been going to the rim all season...14th in FTA / game...

[Nbadan]

Dirk looks so clumsy going to the rim, I think the refs give him the benefit of the doubt every-time, not to mention he's obviously read Manu's book on how to seduce the NBA refs.

[Jimcs50]

Dirk has been going to the rim all season...14th in FTA / game...


Tony Parker has 200% more ponts in the paint that Dirk has...look it up, numbnuts.

[Trainwreck2100]

looks like we're funked

[picnroll]

Dirk has been going to the rim all season...14th in FTA / game...
Percentage of inside points scored per 82games.com

Duncan - 44%
Ginobili - 40%
Parker - 49%
Flopinski - 18% :lol

Yeah Dirk's a really monster in the paint.

[Sasha]

Every successful team plays through the refs. The spurs have done it in the past and they need to do it again if they want to advance.


I have no problem with that. I'd just like to see if the Mavs can do it - for a change.

:madrun

[Mavs_man_41]

Dirk and hard foul should never be used in a sentence together without a no, never, not, nein, nyet or some other negative. It's okay to use pussy, vagina, wimp, etc..

Duncan and ginobili are bigger pussies than anyone....whats your point.

[johnut32]

I have no problem with that. I'd just like to see if the Mavs can do it - for a change.

:madrun

If that makes you feel better.

[Tom_Foolery]

One thing I've always found the Spurs weakness to be was mental toughness at critical times.

I just don't see the fire and fight in this Spurs team that I saw last year, simple as that.

Just as Derek Fisher hit that 0.4 shot and the next game being blown out, I think tonights game will be very close up until around the end of the 3rd or 4th quarter and if the Mavs get a lead, Mavs will hang on to win, and probably will blow out the Spurs.

Popovich doesn't really ignite his players to take challenges personal, and that bothers me. It's as if he's controlled the entire team as robots without any emotions. Well, emotions, contrary to what Popovich may believe, sometimes carries a team and players to unexpected levels.

We are seeing that with the Mavs...they just look like they've taken alot more pride to the court. The Spurs are playing "content" with their accomplishments. The Spurs don't look angry, mad, and look like nothing's phased them while the Mavs have come on court taking personal challenges and looking like a team that wants to prove something. Spurs do not look like they want to prove a damn thing. If they did, they would've wiped the floor with the Mavs in Game 4 instead of letting the Mavs creep back into the game and control it.

It's just not our year. Maybe next year when the Spurs watch the finals at home, someone will finally get "angry" and take it personal because that's what shows character, heart and determination.

Spurs are my team, but I'll be completely honest: Mavs have shown much more heart, pride, and fight.

Mavs definitely deserve what they've gotten.

You can call me whatever you like, but I'm not naive and ignorant to the point where I'm going to purposely close my eyes to reality. Reality is Mavs want this more than the Spurs.

[picnroll]

Duncan and ginobili are bigger pussies than anyone....whats your point.

Percentage of inside points scored per 82games.com

Duncan - 44%
Ginobili - 40%
Parker - 49%
Flopinski - 18%


What a pussy. Avery said he's been working on getting Dirk to man up and play in the paint all season . Good work Avery. :lol

[Sasha]

If that makes you feel better.


No, in all honesty, it doesn't make me feel better. All that would make me feel better is for everyone to get the hell out of the way and let both these teams play, as well as they can play, and may the best team win.

That would make me feel a whole lot better.

[johnut32]

No, in all honesty, it doesn't make me feel better. All that would make me feel better is for everyone to get the hell out of the way and let both these teams play, as well as they can play, and may the best team win.

That would make me feel a whole lot better.

Mavs have been the best team for 3 games.

Championship teams rarely cry about the refs. I hope the spurs take this "victims" complex into the 5th game. If so, it'll be over by the 3rd quarter.

[Sasha]

One thing I've always found the Spurs weakness to be was mental toughness at critical times.

I just don't see the fire and fight in this Spurs team that I saw last year, simple as that.

Just as Derek Fisher hit that 0.4 shot and the next game being blown out, I think tonights game will be very close up until around the end of the 3rd or 4th quarter and if the Mavs get a lead, Mavs will hang on to win, and probably will blow out the Spurs.

Popovich doesn't really ignite his players to take challenges personal, and that bothers me. It's as if he's controlled the entire team as robots without any emotions. Well, emotions, contrary to what Popovich may believe, sometimes carries a team and players to unexpected levels.

We are seeing that with the Mavs...they just look like they've taken alot more pride to the court. The Spurs are playing "content" with their accomplishments. The Spurs don't look angry, mad, and look like nothing's phased them while the Mavs have come on court taking personal challenges and looking like a team that wants to prove something. Spurs do not look like they want to prove a damn thing. If they did, they would've wiped the floor with the Mavs in Game 4 instead of letting the Mavs creep back into the game and control it.

It's just not our year. Maybe next year when the Spurs watch the finals at home, someone will finally get "angry" and take it personal because that's what shows character, heart and determination.

Spurs are my team, but I'll be completely honest: Mavs have shown much more heart, pride, and fight.

Mavs definitely deserve what they've gotten.

You can call me whatever you like, but I'm not naive and ignorant to the point where I'm going to purposely close my eyes to reality. Reality is Mavs want this more than the Spurs.


Good post.

But it's not over yet. Don't write off the heart of a champion until it's finished. Passion and anger (neither of which, hopefully, will take the place of focus) just might appear when you least expect it...like in time for the next 3 games!

[CosmicCowboy]

Championship teams rarely cry about the refs.

Championship teams rarely get hosed by the refs two games in a row in the playoffs.

[Shank]

Championship teams rarely get hosed by the refs two games in a row in the playoffs.

Because championship teams overcome that and don't resort to yelling at the commissioner when their play fails.

[johnut32]

Championship teams rarely get hosed by the refs two games in a row in the playoffs.

You mean the refs made Parker turn the ball over and miss freethrows in overtime? The refs made Duncan miss freethrows in the last minute? The refs made Duncan miss the game winning shot? I guess the refs were the ones who threw away all those inbounds passes.

Sack up. If the spurs take it to the Mavs these next three games you won't see me whining.

[CosmicCowboy]

Because championship teams overcome that and don't resort to yelling at the commissioner when their play fails.

Talking about Cuban?

[johnut32]

Talking about Cuban?

No, Mr. Bowen, who should have been concentrating on winning the game in the last 8 seconds. Instead he chose to whine. Bad choice.

[CosmicCowboy]

You mean the refs made Parker turn the ball over and miss freethrows in overtime? The refs made Duncan miss freethrows in the last minute? The refs made Duncan miss the game winning shot? I guess the refs were the ones who threw away all those inbounds passes.

Sack up. If the spurs take it to the Mavs these next three games you won't see me whining.

Yeah, you are right...if the Spurs take the next three games we won't see you whining because you and the rest of the Mavs trolls won't be here.

[Trainwreck2100]

No, Mr. Bowen, who should have been concentrating on winning the game in the last 8 seconds. Instead he chose to whine. Bad choice.


Rather than doing it for an 8minute span, like Cuban

[picnroll]

You mean the refs made Parker turn the ball over and miss freethrows in overtime? The refs made Duncan miss freethrows in the last minute? The refs made Duncan miss the game winning shot? I guess the refs were the ones who threw away all those inbounds passes.

Sack up. If the spurs take it to the Mavs these next three games you won't see me whining.
Mavs sacked up to the tune of .400 FG% and several turnovers in the fourth and they sacked up to be the recipients of bad calls and gift FTs and personal foul disqualifications. Way to sack up cowbooys.

[johnut32]

How about Pop who does it throughout the game.

[johnut32]

Mavs sacked up to the tune of .400 FG% and several turnovers in the fourth and they sacked up to be the recipients of bad calls and gift FTs and personal foul disqualifications. Way to sack up cowbooys.

The forced turnovers and big shots in overtime are all I needed to see.

[T Park]

Whether or not the spurs are receiving bad calls, it hasn't been a determinative factor in this series.

Duncan and Ginobili fouling out at the end of games 3 and 4, nahhh had ZERO effect AT ALL!!!!

[Jimcs50]

You mean the refs made Parker turn the ball over and miss freethrows in overtime? The refs made Duncan miss freethrows in the last minute? The refs made Duncan miss the game winning shot? I guess the refs were the ones who threw away all those inbounds passes.

Sack up. If the spurs take it to the Mavs these next three games you won't see me whining.


Hey numbnuts, the whole TD missing the shot thing and TP missing the FTs thing shoulf NOT have even been a factor....there should not have been OT....PERIOD.

I am not even going to mention game 3...where I think the calls were even worse.

:cuss

[SPARKY]

No, Mr. Bowen, who should have been concentrating on winning the game in the last 8 seconds. Instead he chose to whine. Bad choice.

He was. He played flawless defense on Nowitzki which should have resulted in Nowitzki taking a tough shot near the end of regulation. Any player would be pissed in that situation. There was no foul.

[johnut32]

Duncan and Ginobili fouling out at the end of games 3 and 4, nahhh had ZERO effect AT ALL!!!!

Don't foul.

[SPARKY]

Don't foul.

Yeah, it's just that simple.

[johnut32]

He was. He played flawless defense on Nowitzki which should have resulted in Nowitzki taking a tough shot near the end of regulation. Any player would be pissed in that situation. There was no foul.

"flawless"

As in constant hand checking, bumps, and reaches.

[SA Gunslinger]

I didn't get much sleep last night so I watched game four again. The Spurs did play great.

If they can bring that level of play into tonight's game, the Spurs will blow out the Mavs unless of course, we get a crappy called game again. If that happens, god help the refs.

I think they are beginning to figure the Mavs out. Small ball is almost unstoppable offensively with TD and Manu as the facilitators. Defensively, the Spurs were scrambling but they were beginning to force tough shots and turnovers. I hope Pop uses the same rotation as the last game. It will work.

[cherylsteele]

The current trend in the NBA favors aggressive defense that allows for a certain number of no calls (i.e. Bowen's defense).
Hey genius.....the Mavs won because the foul was called...it should have been a non-call.
How many times should Dirk get to push off a defender when he posts up?

[picnroll]

Don't breathe on Dirk.

[cherylsteele]

Sack up. If the spurs take it to the Mavs these next three games you won't see me whining.
Someone should save this post for when we do win.

[johnut32]

Hey genius.....the Mavs won because the foul was called...it should have been a non-call.
How many times should Dirk get to push off a defender when he posts up?

Just as much as Duncan.

[johnut32]

Someone should save this post for when we do win.

Be my guest.

[Jimcs50]

Be my guest.


Now that smugness really pisses me off.

:flipoff

[Shank]

Someone should save this post for when we do win.

Bold predictions like to be ridiculed and shot down (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40401)

[johnut32]

hhhmmm, I'm smug because I said I'll be here whether or not the mavs win? I won't come over here and gloat if the mavs win but I will be curious about spur's fans take on the series at some point. If the spurs win, I'll offer my congratulations and discuss the series.

What's wrong with that?

[Jimcs50]

hhhmmm, I'm smug because I said I'll be here whether or not the mavs win? I won't come over here and gloat if the mavs win but I will be curious about spur's fans take on the series at some point. If the spurs win, I'll offer my congratulations and discuss the series.

What's wrong with that?

Ok, my bad...I did not get all that out of "Be my guest"

I take back the :flipoff

[cherylsteele]

hhhmmm, I'm smug because I said I'll be here whether or not the mavs win? I won't come over here and gloat if the mavs win but I will be curious about spur's fans take on the series at some point. If the spurs win, I'll offer my congratulations and discuss the series.

What's wrong with that?
Of course you say this stuff now.
I'd bet you'd be complaining just as much as you think Spurs fans do if the circumstances were reversed.

[sanman53]

I just hate the fact we have to talk about questionable officiating during the playoffs. I understand there will be few questionable calls during a series or even a game. But I want to see some real playoff basketball intensity! Dont get me wrong, playoff excitement is in the air, but it is hard to get in a groove when both teams combined to shoot just under 300 FT's during 4 games. For crying out loud, its the playoffs, let them play!

[CaptainLate]

Shellshocked. Couldn't believe they were getting screwed twice in a row in the same way.

If Tim Duncan isn't embarassed by his performances at the FT line, then he should be. And don't give me the s**t about "We wouldn't be here if not for Timmy."

He better swallow his pride in the offseason and get some serious help.