Please be Dan Crawford tonight

[DarrinS]

Please don't let a whistle-happy knucklehead show up at AT&T tonight.

[ndnjumpman]

umm...nice topic

[Shank]

Heaven forbid the Spurs win a fucking game on their own. Now you're hoping for a particular official? You people are all sad little fucks.

[NoMoneyDown]

Heaven forbid the Spurs win a fucking game on their own. Now you're hoping for a particular official? You people are all sad little fucks.

My 4yr old daughter's soccer coach would do just as good as these "professionals" this series. And I'm talking about calls for BOTH teams.

[DarrinS]

Heaven forbid the Spurs win a fucking game on their own. Now you're hoping for a particular official? You people are all sad little fucks.


This, coming from fans of a team who's owner is the biggest fucking whiner in the world.


Besides, Cuban freakin HATES Dan Crawford, so maybe we can see the human "bowl cut" run out on the court like the little bitch he is.

[SPARKY]

Heaven forbid the Spurs win a fucking game on their own. Now you're hoping for a particular official? You people are all sad little fucks.

We love you too. I think the forum would be better off without this piece of trash cluttering it up.

[zocool16]

Heaven forbid the Spurs win a fucking game on their own. Now you're hoping for a particular official? You people are all sad little fucks.

why do you hate the spurs so much? i mean i know the spurs have beat your team all the time and that's got to hurt but we've been gracious in victory...we haven't been arrogant like say 'the lakers' back in the day we couldn't beat them... come on man your team is our team's little brother. Relax and stop calling us names like you're that much better than us.

[mavsfan1000]

Dan Crawford=Spurs Victory. He is the most hated official of mavs fans.

[Jimcs50]

Last night:

Joe Derosa , Mike Callahan , Steve Javie, Delaney, Nies and Joe Crawford.

These are all pretty good refs....this is bad, very bad.

[v2000]

Dan Crawford=Spurs Victory. He is the most hated official of mavs fans.
actually, thats Joey Crawford that hates the mavs, and the mavs hate him. Dan Crawford is a good ref though. I still think Steve Javie and Dick Bavetta are the two best officials in the NBA.

[DarrinS]

actually, thats Joey Crawford that hates the mavs, and the mavs hate him. Dan Crawford is a good ref though. I still think Steve Javie and Dick Bavetta are the two best officials in the NBA.


You mean Dick "the fix" Bavetta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Bavetta) ??


Steve Javie???


:lol

[Steve Javie]

:devil :devil :violin :nope

GUESS WHO'S WORKING TONIGHT FUCKERS!!!

JAJAJAJAJAJA!!!!

[DarrinS]

:devil :devil :violin :nope

GUESS WHO'S WORKING TONIGHT FUCKERS!!!

JAJAJAJAJAJA!!!!


My friend works security at AT&T center. You don't find out who's calling the game until the last minute. That's so that fucks like Mark "the bowl cut" Cuban can't interfere.

[FromWayDowntown]

It won't be Danny Crawford -- he worked Game 1. In fact, I can pretty much assure you that it won't be any of the following:

Dan Crawford
Greg Willard
Mark Wunderlich
Steve Javie
Eddie F. Rush
David Jones
Joey Crawford
Bill Spooner
Joe Derosa
Dick Bavetta
Jim Clark
Derrick Stafford
Mike Callahan
Bob Delaney
Jack Nies

In effect, that leaves just a handful of officials who might call Game 5. Some names for those who are interested:

Ron Garretson
Bernie Fryer
Ken Mauer
Tom Washington
Bennett Salvatore
Scott Foster

[DarrinS]

In effect, that leaves just a handful of officials who might call Game 5. Some names for those who are interested:

Ron Garretson
Bernie Fryer
Ken Mauer
Tom Washington
Bennett Salvatore
Scott Foster



Garretson? Ok

Bennet Salvatore? Oh, hell no.

[whottt]

I want everyone to bookmark this thread...

If the NBA is rigged we will get Salvatore in Game 6....Provided we win tonight.

IF there are fixed games he would definitely be the closer.

[101A]

I want everyone to bookmark this thread...

If the NBA is rigged we will get Salvatore in Game 6....Provided we win tonight.

IF there are fixed games he would definitely be the closer.

I've been thinking that for a few games now.

[FromWayDowntown]

By my count, the officials who could still work games in this series are:

Ron Garretson
Bernie Fryer
Ken Mauer
Tom Washington
Bennett Salvatore
Scott Foster
Mike Callahan
Jack Nies
Bob Delaney
Monty McCutchen
Sean Corbin
Tony Brothers
Joe Forte
Jess Kersey

[polandprzem]

Why there will not be Danny?
He was not working yesterday, and even if he had the spurs game 1 he could be an official. Iwouldn't mind. But I take garretson too :)

[DarrinS]

Damn, we're screwed. I just found out who's calling the game tonight.

http://www.thedallasmavericks.com/web_images/cuban_ref.jpg

[FromWayDowntown]

Why there will not be Danny?
He was not working yesterday, and even if he had the spurs game 1 he could be an official. Iwouldn't mind. But I take garretson too :)

In general, the NBA has a rule that says that if an official works a game in a city, he cannot work another game in that city for at least 14 days. There are times that the rule is ignored, but in early round playoff series, it's true only for things like Game 7. (It's also ignored in the Finals, but that's because there are fewer officials working and the league has a specific formula for scheduling those officials into games.)

Danny Crawford worked Game 1 in SA, which was on Sunday, May 7. Unless this sucker goes 7, I'm thinking that D. Crawford won't work another game in SA until after May 21.

FWIW -- a Game 7 would be on 5/22 in SA.

[shelshor]

Salvatore might be OK--his head would explode trying to figure out whether he hates the Spurs or Mavs more

[ducks]

I want him in game 6

[polandprzem]

In general, the NBA has a rule that says that if an official works a game in a city, he cannot work another game in that city for at least 14 days. There are times that the rule is ignored, but in early round playoff series, it's true only for things like Game 7. (It's also ignored in the Finals, but that's because there are fewer officials working and the league has a specific formula for scheduling those officials into games.)

Danny Crawford worked Game 1 in SA, which was on Sunday, May 7. Unless this sucker goes 7, I'm thinking that D. Crawford won't work another game in SA until after May 21.

FWIW -- a Game 7 would be on 5/22 in SA.

Okay. Thanks. I didn't knew about that 14-day rule. :)

[50 cent]

I agree that either Salvatore or Nies would be a lock for game 6 if the Spurs win tonight.

It's way too predictable.

[dmac]

By my count, the officials who could still work games in this series are:

Ron Garretson
Bernie Fryer
Ken Mauer
Tom Washington
Bennett Salvatore
Scott Foster
Mike Callahan
Jack Nies
Bob Delaney
Monty McCutchen
Sean Corbin
Tony Brothers
Joe Forte
Jess Kersey

My guess is

Nies
Salvatore
and
tony cuban (mark's cousin)

[Jimcs50]

My guess is

Nies
Salvatore
and
tony cuban (mark's cousin)



I'd sooner have:

http://www.the3stooges.net/members/1234567/uploaded/meninblack.JPG

[gogojojo]

I always respected the spurs and their fans (Classy Organization with great fans), but I've lost some during this series. Why is your team and fans whinning so much about the refs. This is getting out of hand. The last thing you should be worried about is the refs. Quit the madness.

[Jimcs50]

I always respected the spurs and their fans (Classy Organization with great fans), but I've lost some during this series. Why is your team and fans whinning so much about the refs. This is getting out of hand. The last thing you should be worried about is the refs. Quit the madness.


spoken like someone that has had the benefit from all the fucked up calls.

:rolleyes

[dmac]

I always respected the spurs and their fans (Classy Organization with great fans), but I've lost some during this series. Why is your team and fans whinning so much about the refs. This is getting out of hand. The last thing you should be worried about is the refs. Quit the madness.
:stfu if you were getting screwed the way we are, you'd be pissed too!

[DarrinS]

I always respected the spurs and their fans (Classy Organization with great fans), but I've lost some during this series. Why is your team and fans whinning so much about the refs. This is getting out of hand. The last thing you should be worried about is the refs. Quit the madness.


It's not just Spurs fans. Try reading a newspaper or sports magazine every once in a while. It's seems obvious to everyone except Mavs fans.

[LEONARD]

They just reported on the radio that it's Javie!!! :-o

[Hook Dem]

I always respected the spurs and their fans (Classy Organization with great fans), but I've lost some during this series. Why is your team and fans whinning so much about the refs. This is getting out of hand. The last thing you should be worried about is the refs. Quit the madness.
Lets put the shoe on the other foot and see how you feel!!!!!!! Life looks good when you're up 3-1 no matter how you got there! :rolleyes

[Jimcs50]

They just reported on the radio that it's Javie!!! :-o

I will take Javie...no shit. He is fair and willnot get intimidated by Mark Cuban

[Winnipeg_Spur]

The fact that the Mavs hate Dan Crawford speaks volumes for their team, as he's the best official in the league...

I get the feeling Cuban doesn't really want only the 9 best officials calling playoff games (not that that made any sense to begin with).

[gogojojo]

The calls have been one sided at times, but the last game both teams had equal fouls. I can recall many fouls on dallas that were questionable.

Good luck in tonights game. I hope the calls go both ways and they let the teams play.

[Jimcs50]

The calls have been one sided at times, but the last game both teams had equal fouls. I can recall many fouls on dallas that were questionable.

Good luck in tonights game. I hope the calls go both ways and they let the teams play.


Too late for calls to go both ways....the Spurs need all the calls in next 2 games to get it close to even, then let them play straight up in game 7. That is the only fair way to do this.

[FromWayDowntown]

The calls have been one sided at times, but the last game both teams had equal fouls. I can recall many fouls on dallas that were questionable.

Good luck in tonights game. I hope the calls go both ways and they let the teams play.

I posted this elsewhere, but I think the numbers are interesting:

4th Quarter Free Throw Makes-Attempts

Game 3: Mavs 18-22; Spurs 6-8
Game 4: Mavs 13-14; Spurs 3-4

The Spurs haven't shot as many 4th Quarter FT's in 2 games as the Mavs shot in either. For that matter, the Spurs haven't taken as many 4th Quarter FT's in 2 games as the Mavs have made in either game.

It's not as if the Spurs are shooting poorly from the line in 4th quarters -- it's that they have no margin for error because the Mavericks are parading to the line.

4th Quarter Field Goal Shooting

Game 3: Mavs 6-12 (.500), Spurs 13-17 (.765)
Game 4: Mavs 6-20 (.400), Spurs 12-23 (.522)

It's got to be a rare thing that a team can shoot ridiculous 4th Quarter percentages like those in close playoff games and lose both times. I'd wonder if Elias even has a statistic on that.

[Jimcs50]

I posted this elsewhere, but I think the numbers are interesting:

4th Quarter Free Throw Makes-Attempts

Game 3: Mavs 18-22; Spurs 6-8
Game 4: Mavs 13-14; Spurs 3-4

The Spurs haven't shot as many 4th Quarter FT's in 2 games as the Mavs shot in either. For that matter, the Spurs haven't taken as many 4th Quarter FT's in 2 games as the Mavs have made in either game.

It's not as if the Spurs are shooting poorly from the line in 4th quarters -- it's that they have no margin for error because the Mavericks are parading to the line.

4th Quarter Field Goal Shooting

Game 3: Mavs 6-12 (.500), Spurs 13-17 (.765)
Game 4: Mavs 6-20 (.400), Spurs 12-23 (.522)

It's got to be a rare thing that a team can shoot ridiculous 4th Quarter percentages like those in close playoff games and lose both times. I'd wonder if Elias even has a statistic on that.


Nice.

If that does not shut the Dallas fans' pie holes, they really are ignorant.

[SA210]

In effect, that leaves just a handful of officials who might call Game 5. Some names for those who are interested:

Ron Garretson
Bernie Fryer
Ken Mauer
Tom Washington
Bennett Salvatore
Scott Foster

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gogojojo]

Too late for calls to go both ways....the Spurs need all the calls in next 2 games to get it close to even, then let them play straight up in game 7. That is the only fair way to do this.

Game 1 and Game 3 cancel each other out.
Game 2 it didn't matter the game was over early
Game 4 we saw the same number of fouls, but I'll give it to the spurs.

The spurs will see their share of calls tonight, so they better take advantage. I see the mavs coming out shooting 3's and cutter in the paint early to get an early lead. I see them being more aggressive than the spurs. This game could be over early. Tony Parker is the key.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I always respected the spurs and their fans (Classy Organization with great fans), but I've lost some during this series. Why is your team and fans whinning so much about the refs. This is getting out of hand. The last thing you should be worried about is the refs. Quit the madness.I feel the same way. Its not all of them whining though, just a couple that do it soooooooo much it seems like its the whole fanbase *cough* jimsc50 *cough* sa210* cough*

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I will take Javie...no shit. He is fair and willnot get intimidated by Mark CubanIf anything, the officials should want to make sure they don't have to see Cuban in another round.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Lets put the shoe on the other foot and see how you feel!!!!!!! Life looks good when you're up 3-1 no matter how you got there! :rolleyes
The Spurs have been on the good side of officiating long enough...........its time the shoes were changed.

[FromWayDowntown]

Game 1 and Game 3 cancel each other out.

That's a rather curious assertion, given that the teams shot, essentially, an equal number of FT attempts in Game 1. (SA 30, Dallas 28).

Again, if the argument is about officiating, I don't think you can just look at the sheer number of fouls and say that an even number of fouls is an evenly-called game. In terms of FT attempts, Game 1 was certainly called pretty evenly, even in the 4th Quarter:

4th Quarter FT-FTA

Game 1: Mavs 3-6, Spurs 1-3

4th Quarter FG-FGA

Game 1: Mavs 5-12 (.416), Spurs 7-17 (.411)

Those numbers were very, very different in the 4th Quarters of Games 3 & 4. I think those numbers are really the source of the frustration around here. Teams don't shoot 70% from the floor in close playoff games and lose because they're out-shot 3:1 from the line. That particularly doesn't happen to defending champions.

Nevertheless, what's done is done. It's in the past and it's time to move on.








Rip their freakin' heads off tonight, Spurs.

[whottt]

Salvatore might be OK--his head would explode trying to figure out whether he hates the Spurs or Mavs more


He hates the Spurs more....it's not even close. Not even close...there is no greater Spur hating referee than Bennet Salvatore.

And Salvatore was the main reason the Mavs didn't lose to the Rockets last year in the playoffs.

[FromWayDowntown]

He hates the Spurs more....it's not even close. Not even close...there is no greater Spur hating referee than Bennet Salvatore.

And Salvatore was the main reason the Mavs didn't lose to the Rockets last year in the playoffs.

Game 1, 2003 WCF.

And anyone recall that little travelling call on Tim in Dallas earlier this season when Dirk clearly pushed him from behind? Salvatore made that call.

[fyatuk]

I posted this elsewhere, but I think the numbers are interesting:

4th Quarter Free Throw Makes-Attempts

Game 3: Mavs 18-22; Spurs 6-8
Game 4: Mavs 13-14; Spurs 3-4

The Spurs haven't shot as many 4th Quarter FT's in 2 games as the Mavs shot in either. For that matter, the Spurs haven't taken as many 4th Quarter FT's in 2 games as the Mavs have made in either game.

It's not as if the Spurs are shooting poorly from the line in 4th quarters -- it's that they have no margin for error because the Mavericks are parading to the line.

4th Quarter Field Goal Shooting

Game 3: Mavs 6-12 (.500), Spurs 13-17 (.765)
Game 4: Mavs 6-20 (.400), Spurs 12-23 (.522)

It's got to be a rare thing that a team can shoot ridiculous 4th Quarter percentages like those in close playoff games and lose both times. I'd wonder if Elias even has a statistic on that.

Game 3 really does look messed up there. Spurs make more field goals than the Mavs get off, but the Mavs shoot almost as many free throws as the Spurs do free throw and field goal attemps combined? Yikes.

[kg_veteran]

Blaming the refs for losses is the American way, I guess. Nothing is ever "my fault." Somebody else is to blame.

If the Spurs had made the plays that were within their control in Games 3 and 4, this and countless other threads would never have been opened.

Blaming the refs is just a failure to accept the fact that the team didn't make the plays it could have made which would have won the game.

[DarrinS]

Blaming the refs for losses is the American way, I guess. Nothing is ever "my fault." Somebody else is to blame.

If the Spurs had made the plays that were within their control in Games 3 and 4, this and countless other threads would never have been opened.

Blaming the refs is just a failure to accept the fact that the team didn't make the plays it could have made which would have won the game.


Tell it to your owner.

[kg_veteran]

Tell it to your owner.

Just because he owns my favorite team doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he has said in the past, does it?

Also, re: his recent blog entry, it had nothing to do with a specific game, did it? It seemed to me he was making a comment on how to improve the playoff officiating system as a whole. My point is, it's not like he was writing a blog entry about how Game 1 was a rip off and the Mavs got screwed or anything.

[FromWayDowntown]

Blaming the refs for losses is the American way, I guess. Nothing is ever "my fault." Somebody else is to blame.

If the Spurs had made the plays that were within their control in Games 3 and 4, this and countless other threads would never have been opened.

Blaming the refs is just a failure to accept the fact that the team didn't make the plays it could have made which would have won the game.

I don't disagree. But it's one thing to say that a team didn't make the plays it should have and lost; it's another to say that a team had to make play-after-play-after-play because the opponent was bailed out time-after-time-after-time on the other end. The statistical disparities in Games 3 and 4 are stark anomalies in my NBA playoff-watching experience. Teams don't shoot 75% from the floor in tight playoff games and just lose. To see it happen in consecutive games, and with some astoundingly questionable whistles, is troubling.

The Mavs played well enough to win those games; the Spurs did enough to lose those games. But I can certainly understand why there is a growing sentiment that the 4th Quarter whistles in those games were not even.

[kg_veteran]

I don't disagree. But it's one thing to say that a team didn't make the plays it should have and lost; it's another to say that a team had to make play-after-play-after-play because the opponent was bailed out time-after-time-after-time on the other end. The statistical disparities in Games 3 and 4 are stark anomalies in my NBA playoff-watching experience. Teams don't shoot 75% from the floor in tight playoff games and just lose. To see it happen in consecutive games, and with some astoundingly questionable whistles, is troubling.

The Mavs played well enough to win those games; the Spurs did enough to lose those games. But I can certainly understand why there is a growing sentiment that the 4th Quarter whistles in those games were not even.

I would argue (even though I'm sure I won't find many that agree with me here) that the reason the Mavs were the beneficiaries of so many FT attempts is that they were getting to the basket or making good moves and getting fouled. Clearly, we can both point to calls where the ref could have chosen not to call the foul. But the Mavs put themselves in position to get the calls by being aggressive, and on top of that the Mavs still had to make their free throws.

If Dirk misses those FTs in the final minute of either Game 3 or 4, we're not talking about this. Instead, there are a dozen threads posted on some Mavs board about how "Dirk chokes."

I think what bothers both of us more than a particular call being incorrect is the fact that the same play could have occurred during a different game or even earlier in the same game, and it wouldn't have been called the same way. That's really what Duncan was complaining about in Game 3 and Bowen was complaining about in Game 4. Neither was really saying, "I didn't foul him." They were really saying (even if they didn't word it this way), "How can you call that a foul at this point in the game?"

[v2000]

I always respected the spurs and their fans (Classy Organization with great fans), but I've lost some during this series. Why is your team and fans whinning so much about the refs. This is getting out of hand. The last thing you should be worried about is the refs. Quit the madness.
haha, im the opposite. i hate the spurs, because i hate their whiny ass fans. i used to like the spurs, but when i realized how much their fans whine, and the players whine, i started to hate them.

[sprrs]

Heaven forbid the Spurs win a fucking game on their own. Now you're hoping for a particular official? You people are all sad little fucks.

Heaven forbid the MAVS win a game on their own.

[FromWayDowntown]

I would argue (even though I'm sure I won't find many that agree with me here) that the reason the Mavs were the beneficiaries of so many FT attempts is that they were getting to the basket or making good moves and getting fouled. Clearly, we can both point to calls where the ref could have chosen not to call the foul. But the Mavs put themselves in position to get the calls by being aggressive, and on top of that the Mavs still had to make their free throws.

I think that's all very true. But I think much of the frustration here is that the Spurs made similar moves and didn't get similar calls, though it seemed at times that there was similar contact. In the 4th Quarter of Game 4, for example, a disproportionate number of the Spurs shots came in the lane (largely because they were working through Duncan) and Duncan frequently drew contact on those shots, but didn't get to the line and couldn't get fouls called. Meanwhile, the FGA for the Mavericks on a shot chart for the same time period are disproportionately outside the paint, yet everytime the Mavs went to the goal (it seemed) they got a call.


If Dirk misses those FTs in the final minute of either Game 3 or 4, we're not talking about this. Instead, there are a dozen threads posted on some Mavs board about how "Dirk chokes."

The point is, I think, that he got that chance in consecutive games on questionable calls.


I think what bothers both of us more than a particular call being incorrect is the fact that the same play could have occurred during a different game or even earlier in the same game, and it wouldn't have been called the same way. That's really what Duncan was complaining about in Game 3 and Bowen was complaining about in Game 4. Neither was really saying, "I didn't foul him." They were really saying (even if they didn't word it this way), "How can you call that a foul at this point in the game?"

Again, you're correct. I absolutely agree with those statements. I don't mind so much the difference from game-to-game. That's a constant in sports in which humans officiate. It happens and players adjust. My quarrel is with the difference from stage-to-stage of a single game. Particularly the willingness, in the most important portions of a game, to call contact that has been permitted for the rest of the game. It's not so much "How can you call that a foul at this point in the game;" it's more "How can you call that a foul at this point in the game when you haven't called it all night?"

Blown/bad calls happen. Inconsistent calls are inexcusable. And I do think the inconsistency (and most of the bad calls) have favored the Mavericks in the last two games and have allowed them to stay in games in which the Spurs played better 4th Quarters. Just my .02.

[Jimcs50]

haha, im the opposite. i hate the spurs, because i hate their whiny ass fans. i used to like the spurs, but when i realized how much their fans whine, and the players whine, i started to hate them.


You know what????


GET OUT OF THE SPURS' FORUM, and you will not have to listen to the Spurs fans.

OK??????


:idiot

[Willinsa]

haha, im the opposite. i hate the spurs, because i hate their whiny ass fans. i used to like the spurs, but when i realized how much their fans whine, and the players whine, i started to hate them.

You hate us because we have 3 rings and your shitty team has ZERO. :lol

[rayray2k8]

To this point I dont care who the refs are in the game (and it shouldnt be about them either)
All I know is that theres gonna be a hellva game at the AT&T Center thats gonna be highly contested.
The way I see its the spurs and 15,000 fans against the mavs, mark cuban and his hair.
Lets get this one guys, what happened before doesnt make a difference, we can piss and moan about the previous games, but theres no changing it now, so whats the point?
GET READY, GET LOUD!!
:flag:

[kg_veteran]

I think that's all very true. But I think much of the frustration here is that the Spurs made similar moves and didn't get similar calls, though it seemed at times that there was similar contact. In the 4th Quarter of Game 4, for example, a disproportionate number of the Spurs shots came in the lane (largely because they were working through Duncan) and Duncan frequently drew contact on those shots, but didn't get to the line and couldn't get fouls called.

First, thanks for discussing this with me rationally.

Re: Game 4, I was looking back at the play-by-play to try and see which plays you were referencing. Duncan was 2-5 in the 4th quarter of Game 4. The official boxscore says he had one layup attempt blocked by Nowitzki, and then he missed a jump shot with about 3:24 left and the final hook shot at the end of regulation. Which one of those plays were fouls? Or are you talking about plays where he should have gotten the "and 1"?

I also looked at the shots taken by the other Spurs in the 4th quarter, and everything that was missed appears to me to have been jump shots. That matches with what I recall about the game. I guess all I'm saying is, I don't remember any specific offensive plays where the Spurs should have gotten the benefit of a foul call, but didn't.


Meanwhile, the FGA for the Mavericks on a shot chart for the same time period are disproportionately outside the paint, yet everytime the Mavs went to the goal (it seemed) they got a call.

The Mavs also made their fair share of FGA in Game 4. Maybe you could point out some specific plays where fouls were called that shouldn't have been. Re: Dirk's FTs at the end of regulation. I don't think Bowen really believed that he didn't foul Dirk. He just thought they should have "let the players decide the game," which translates to forcing Dirk to make a shot. (FWIW, when Bowen got called for the foul, Dirk had already gone into his spin move and was alone at the front of the rim. I think the Mavs were getting 2 points either way.)


The point is, I think, that he got that chance in consecutive games on questionable calls.

I understand that perspective. The Spurs could have avoided both situations by getting a rebound and/or by not turning the ball over, so I don't think the foul calls cost the Spurs the game, but I know what you're saying.


Again, you're correct. I absolutely agree with those statements. I don't mind so much the difference from game-to-game. That's a constant in sports in which humans officiate. It happens and players adjust. My quarrel is with the difference from stage-to-stage of a single game. Particularly the willingness, in the most important portions of a game, to call contact that has been permitted for the rest of the game. It's not so much "How can you call that a foul at this point in the game;" it's more "How can you call that a foul at this point in the game when you haven't called it all night?"

Yeah, that's fair. I agree with that.


Blown/bad calls happen. Inconsistent calls are inexcusable. And I do think the inconsistency (and most of the bad calls) have favored the Mavericks in the last two games and have allowed them to stay in games in which the Spurs played better 4th Quarters. Just my .02.

I appreciate the fact that you present that opinion without profanity or any broad-stroke conspiracy theories.

[FromWayDowntown]

First, thanks for discussing this with me rationally.

Agreed. I'm happy to do so.


Re: Game 4, I was looking back at the play-by-play to try and see which plays you were referencing. Duncan was 2-5 in the 4th quarter of Game 4. The official boxscore says he had one layup attempt blocked by Nowitzki, and then he missed a jump shot with about 3:24 left and the final hook shot at the end of regulation. Which one of those plays were fouls? Or are you talking about plays where he should have gotten the "and 1"?

I don't know that the play-by-play would bear out my complaint, largely becuase it doesn't note instances in which there (from my perspective) there appears to be significant contact but the shot falls and there is no call. It's fair to say that I think there were at least a couple of plays that could have warranted and-1's (given the contact that was called on the other end), but that call didn't come. It happens and we move along.


I also looked at the shots taken by the other Spurs in the 4th quarter, and everything that was missed appears to me to have been jump shots. That matches with what I recall about the game. I guess all I'm saying is, I don't remember any specific offensive plays where the Spurs should have gotten the benefit of a foul call, but didn't.

There were a lot of jumpers, but a shot chart shows that a disproportionate number of the shots taken were shots taken in the lane. Parker did go to the rim (or at least get close enough for a floater). My distaste, though, was mostly for the contact on Duncan that didn't seem to draw calls.


The Mavs also made their fair share of FGA in Game 4. Maybe you could point out some specific plays where fouls were called that shouldn't have been. Re: Dirk's FTs at the end of regulation. I don't think Bowen really believed that he didn't foul Dirk. He just thought they should have "let the players decide the game," which translates to forcing Dirk to make a shot. (FWIW, when Bowen got called for the foul, Dirk had already gone into his spin move and was alone at the front of the rim. I think the Mavs were getting 2 points either way.)

I think the 2 that really stick in my craw are the Bowen foul (which strikes me as a preposterously soft call in that game and that circumstance, given everything else that had gone on) and the block/charge situation with Duncan and Nowitzki. One (the Bowen call) is an example of what I saw as an inconsistency; the other (the Duncan call) is an example of what I saw as a poorly-called play by an official who was out of position. There was a third circumstance, a situation where Bowen elevated before Dirk did and came down without appearing to make any contact, but was still called for a foul. What troubled me about that one was that the official in position to make the call, Derrick Stafford, didn't blow his whistle; and official who was blocked out by Dirk's body, Dick Bavetta, did.

Again, though, it happens. And I'm sure that many Mavericks fans would disagree with me about my perspective on all 3 calls.


I understand that perspective. The Spurs could have avoided both situations by getting a rebound and/or by not turning the ball over, so I don't think the foul calls cost the Spurs the game, but I know what you're saying.

Absolutely. In the end, the Spurs have had their chances and haven't gotten done what should be done. It's on them that they lost the games -- or on the Mavericks for getting those things done at winning time.


I appreciate the fact that you present that opinion without profanity or any broad-stroke conspiracy theories.

Likewise.

[kg_veteran]

My hope is that tonight we can just have a game where the refs are not a part of the storyline.

[spurster]

I've heard there's been a name change from Knick Bavetta to Dick Mavetta.

[FromWayDowntown]

My hope is that tonight we can just have a game where the refs are not a part of the storyline.

:tu.

I'd like 3 of those over the next five days or so.

[kg_veteran]

:tu.

I'd like 3 of those over the next five days or so.

I'm sure you would. ;)

[whottt]

Game 1, 2003 WCF.

And anyone recall that little travelling call on Tim in Dallas earlier this season when Dirk clearly pushed him from behind? Salvatore made that call.


Game 4 2004 WCSF...

David Robinson fouls out in 12 minutes.

[FromWayDowntown]

Game 4 2004 WCSF...

David Robinson fouls out in 12 minutes.

2003, whottt -- and it was 14 minutes. But you were close.

Kevin Willis had 4 in 15 minutes that afternoon, too.

The Salvatore/Nies shuffle

[J.T.]

Spurs are 5-1 when Salvatore calls the game this season. I know we all hate him for fouling out David in 12 minutes but if he refs it's not the end of the world. The Spurs must put everything aside tonight and win this shit with their ability. Fuck the Mavs, fuck the refs. Game 5 will be ALL Silver and Black.

[whottt]

I want everyone to bookmark this thread...

If the NBA is rigged we will get Salvatore in Game 6....Provided we win tonight.

IF there are fixed games he would definitely be the closer.

[whottt]

Spurs are 5-1 when Salvatore calls the game this season. I know we all hate him for fouling out David in 12 minutes but if he refs it's not the end of the world. The Spurs must put everything aside tonight and win this shit with their ability. Fuck the Mavs, fuck the refs. Game 5 will be ALL Silver and Black.


How you like Bennet now?

[GoSpurs21]

what the fuck is wrong with duncan????
he takes weak ass fouls in the most important game of the Spurs playoff run

come on Timmy step up and play smart...we cant afford dumbass weak fouls

[Winnipeg_Spur]

This game is a complete joke. They're playing without Terry so to make up for that they'll just foul out Duncan, Manu AND Bowen. Seems fair.