Is there any doubt Nash is the worst defensive player ever?

[ShoogarBear]

Quinton Ross just went for 16 on him in the first half.

Think about that.

Quinton Ross.

[CubanMustGo]

NBA forum ...

[JMarkJohns]

Somewhere, Cedric Ceballos is upset that his name isn't in this thread's title!

[SPARKY]

MVP^2

Go figure.

[J.T.]

Suns in 7.

[Leetonidas]

Luke Ridnour...

[50 & 21]

NBA forum ...

Junior Moderator are we?

[BillsCarnage]

Quinton Ross just went for 16 on him in the first half.

Think about that.

Quinton Ross.

Don't forget to mention that Ross is three inches taller than Nash, has longer arms and a higher jump. Your surprised he's scored that much???

What's more shocking is the Suns keep putting Nash on him - though Ross has never been known as a scorer until tonight.

[Mavs_man_41]

Quinton Ross just went for 16 on him in the first half.

Think about that.

Quinton Ross.
i bet he can guard you...

[Trainwreck2100]

i bet he can guard you...


http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7492/owl25zt.jpg

[jman3000]

i bet he can guard you...

post of the year?

[Trainwreck2100]

post of the year?

The owl thinks so

[Shank]

Nash has never really been a good defender. But he scores points and makes flashy passes. That's what the league wants and what's appealing.

[MannyIsGod]

Severely over rated. The fact that this guy won one MVP let alone 2 is amazing.

[MannyIsGod]

Scottie Pippen tore into him tonight as well. He said this is the time of year MVPs step up and Nash is doing the opposite.

[1Parker1]

Scottie Pippen tore into him tonight as well. He said this is the time of year MVPs step up and Nash is doing the opposite.

:tu I just think there were a lot of good, deserving players this year...including Dirk. Nash was the safest choice.

[T Park]

Pippen has gone hard core tonight ripping up Terry and now Nash.

Kick ass Roberto!

[MannyIsGod]

Kobe and Lebron were the most deserving. By far.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I can't take Pippen seriously as an analyst at all. I'm always expecting him to get up and leave the studio cause the producers don't have him speaking in the next segment...

[T Park]

either that or quit the show due to a migraine.

[Vashner]

Nash sucks.. I hope his team looses.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Don't forget to mention that Ross is three inches taller than Nash, has longer arms and a higher jump. Your surprised he's scored that much???

What's more shocking is the Suns keep putting Nash on him - though Ross has never been known as a scorer until tonight.


Playing against Nash, no not surprised at all. Dude had a career high of 15 before tonight...

[Horry For 3!]

Quinton Ross just went for 16 on him in the first half.

Think about that.

Quinton Ross.
He averaged 20 pts per game in college.....



:lol

[RON ARTEST]

i use to think bibby was a bad defender but damn does nash even try to defend? i bet if magic suited up right now he would drop 50 on him. hes one of the biggest reasons the suns play no defense.

[RON ARTEST]

He averaged 20 pts per game in college.....



:lol
are you being sarcastic? nash cant guard a parked car.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol can you? nash is no mvp lebron should be if you take lebron away from the cavs there nothing if you take nash away from the suns..they still make the playoffs..so hes not really the most important...

[CubanMustGo]

Junior Moderator are we?

Someone with all of forty posts asks this question?

PS dumbfuck - look where this thread is now.

[JamStone]

2003-04 Phoenix Suns ... no playoff appearance.

Take Nash of the Suns, no guarantee that the Suns make the playoffs, especially considering Amare was out basically the entire season as well.

[JamStone]

Steve Nash is pretty inept at the defensive end. But, anyone remember Craig Hodges? Anyone seen Jamal Crawford play before? How about Luke Ridnour? Peja Stojakovic gets passed more times than an 80 year old grandmother driving a beat up station wagon. Allan Houston was pretty putrid defensively. Ever see Chris Mills play one-on-one defense?

Anyway, even if Nash is not the worst defender ever, it still is pretty unsettling that as bad as he is defensively that he is a two time MVP. And, I guess that's one of the points being made here.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I like Nash's game and I don't think he's the worst EVER...offensively he's completely sound I liked how he posted up on Odom and scored on him in the last series...I read supposedly he wanted to work on his D over the summer last year...There's a slight trace I noticed this year comparably, but other than rotating well with help defense-- he's pretty weak... Like he starts off the game trying to defend his man but once his man reads how he defends and gets by, he basically goes "Ah fuck it--I'll just get ready to run back and push the ball up after he makes this basket".

He's an aberration, most MVP's excel at both ends. He better keep working at it...Stockton was a skinny white guy and he was solid. Parker's tiny and he's an 8 or 9 defender. So I don't know why Nash doesn't elevate it. Maybe it has something to do with the last two coaches he's played for.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol..i think it they would still make the playoffs without nash...marion has played better defence this year and diaw has really improved

[JMarkJohns]

I do find it funny that the same people criticizing Nash for his postseason play, saying it's proof he isn't the MVP, are the same people still talking up Kobe for MVP.

Anyone remember Kobe's postseason?

He wasn't even the MVP of his team in his teams wins. That was Lamar Odom. Sure, he hit the game-tieing, then game-winning shots in game four, but others set the stage for that. They did the heavy lifting, Kobe got the acclaim. Then in game six and game seven, it can be argued it was vintage Kobe in each. Too many shots in one game, not enough out of spite in the following game as his teams chokes against a team they and just about everyone left for dead.

Is that stepping up?

Fact is, Nash carried the Suns this season. He's beat. He's completely worn out, having not had more than a days rest since early in the first round. Let's see how he plays with fresh legs.

Obviously Nash will always be a poor defender, but there's nothing like heavy legs to make one look that much worse.

I still say Ceballos was the most apathetic defender I've ever seen. Dude didn't even try to care.

[JMarkJohns]

lol..i think it they would still make the playoffs without nash...marion has played better defence this year and diaw has really improved

You're crazy. Marion can't create his own shot and Diaw's improvement stems largely from the pick-n-roll that he and Nash run.

Without Nash, Marion is just another past over star and Diaw's still an unknown most likely.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

What's a past over star?

[JMarkJohns]

What's a past over star?

OK, so were on to spelling critiques... clever boy!

It was done on purpose because this thread needed an anal-retentive spellchecker and HEY! What do ya know, I FOUND ONE!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

OK, so were on to spelling critiques... clever boy!

It was done on purpose because this thread needed an anal-retentive spellchecker and HEY! What do ya know, I FOUND ONE!

No, I was being genuine. I didn't know if you meant passed over star(underrated) or what...

Easy, tiger, easy...

[JMarkJohns]

No, I was being genuine. I didn't know if you meant passed over star(underrated) or what...

Easy, tiger, easy...

Yeah... Passed over star as in back to his unknown status of a few years ago when he averaged 21 points, 9+ rebounds, 2+ steals and wasn't named to the All-Star team because the Suns were en route to their worst record ever.

[JamStone]

JMarkJohns,

What about those people who complain about Nash getting the MVP who believe LeBron should have gotten it?

[BillsCarnage]

JMarkJohns,

What about those people who complain about Nash getting the MVP who believe LeBron should have gotten it?

Wasn't Lebron #2 in voting?

Lebron had an excellent last month or two, but the MVP isn't based on two months; it's based on an entire year. From beginning to end Nash was a more viable MVP and that was showed in the landslide win. It wasn't close.

12 players have had career years the past two seasons with Nash. Why? Because he's the orchestrator of the offense and he finds ways to get his team involved. People always want to find one point to bash on Nash - mainly his D. But the MVP is a culmination of many aspects of a players game, not one or two.

And Kobes perception around the league/media will always be an achillies heal to him.

[1Parker1]

I've said this again and again, Nash is a great player. However, his stats and greatness is greatly dependent upon the type of system in which he plays in. When you have a run and gun offense, and athletic players around you who can run and catch the ball, like Marion, Bell, Diaw, etc. you're going to rack up the assists and point totals. The same thing happened to Nash in Dallas when he was there.

Which leads me to my point: What exactly has Nash done differently in Pheonix than he did with his years with the Mavs? Mavs ended the one year with Nash with 60 wins and had 50+ win seasons......yet Nash was never even mentioned for MVP back then. And if you argue it was because he had Dirk next to him...well now he has Shawn Marion. So, what is he doing so differently with the Suns? His stats are up? Well, that is due to the system he plays in now, which I mentioned above. Like Simmons said in his one article, Nash winning the MVP last year was "cute,"...but this year? No way.

[BillsCarnage]

Which leads me to my point: What exactly has Nash done differently in Pheonix than he did with his years with the Mavs?

29 wins to 62 last year. That's why he got credit for it.

No Amare(all season) and no KT(last 2-3 months) = no inside game. Yet he's still been able to lead them to gm7 of the second round. Take Nash out and they're a very below avg team both seasons. Right or wrong, these are things people look at.

[1Parker1]

^I understand that. But as I mentioned, the reason they do so well in the regular season was because of the system they play in. Not to mention, Marion, Raja Bell and Diaw aren't exactly a scrubs. Diaw just never got any playing time in Atlanta that's why people never realized how good he was.

Like I said, I'm not denying Nash is a great player or his ability to make his team-mates better. However, back to back MVP's are reserved for seriously amazing players...and Nash has yet to even make it to the Finals (which I know postseason doesn't have any bearing on the award, but still!).

Anyways, if he wins it next year too, then I'll definitly scream! :smokin

[TDMVPDPOY]

theres a reason why nash is not on the defensive team,

but if that clown can win mvp without playin defense, then why cant dirk win mvp without playin defense? his team wins are up, his stats are up

[JMarkJohns]

JMarkJohns,

What about those people who complain about Nash getting the MVP who believe LeBron should have gotten it?

Thing is, there weren't many towards the end of the regular season. Everyone had him in their top five, some in their top three, but the "LeBron should have won MVP" argument has really just picked up steam with his otherworldly performance in these playoffs and since the MVP award is a regular season honor, I'll tip my cap to LeBron on his witnesses for his postseason and say if he plays like this all of next year, then the award is his.

I've said all along that the playoffs, no matter who had won the award, shouldn't be factored into the MVP opinion since it doesn't factor into the MVP voting.

Right now, the postseason MVP is LeBron and it's not even close. If he keeps it up, there may be an MVP honor for him this season yet... He's been far and away the best player and has had the most impact on his team's success of anyone.


My post was criticizing those who say Nash shouldn't be the MVP based on his postseason, then still proclaim Kobe a worthy candidate when his team struggled both when he did well and when he intentionally let it.


The Suns road their horse to death. Nash has almost nothing left. After a career high in minutes in the regular season, then an even higher average per game in the 13 postseason battles thus far, that's understandable.

He's got no backup PG that can come in and run the offense in his stead. His coach doesn't believe in running plays. The weight of the Suns postseason rests solely on his ability to beat doubleteams and find his teammates quality, high-percentage shots.

True, his defense is terrible right now, but how many point guards are good post defenders? If you watched the games, you'd know that the Clippers are taking Nash down low a minimum of 20 times a game. That's not to excuse it, but serisously, that's one of the main reasons why Ross went off last night and why Cassell has torched them in the previous games.

As far as I'm concerned, you take a team's most skilled rebounder and then their best low-post scorer and second best rebounder and the expectations aren't nearly as high as where the Suns have ended up. I figured the Suns would lose this series in six. They've superceded my expectations by one game.

A lot of that is Nash.

Again, I'd be arguing for Dirk or even Kobe had they won the award and fans here said they didn't deserve the award.

I hate the Lakers, but I've defended Kobe on several sites. I could really care less about Dirk, but would have argued for him as well. My favorite player in the NBA is Wade and I didn't even argue for him.

I'm not the Suns or Nash homer my arguments for Nash portray me as. I know you're not saying I am, but frankly I'm tired of arguing this over and over here, but there's really nothing to do, short of letting Anti-Nash bias (in most cases) or Anti-Nash arguments run rampent.

Anyways... You've probably stopped reading by this point.. I'm rambling...

[tlongII]

LeBron should have been MVP. No question.

[Nashfan]

Is this why Tony Parker is letting Devin Harris blow by him? Your whole team has played bad defense, especially in this series with the Mavs. You need to look at your own team right now and not at ours. Nash is not a great defender, but I don't think Parker is either plus he has Duncan to cover his mistakes and usually Nazr or Rasho ( though not in this series). It is truly amazing that the Suns have made it this far without Amare and Kurt Thomas. Both the Spurs and the Pistons are being pushed to the brink and both have won championships and have back up point guards to spell their starter. I think you need to look at your own teams before starting stupid threads like this. :rolleyes

[ShoogarBear]

Um, yeah, okay. Look at our own teams. Good idea.

Pistons: Billups: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope. Rip: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope.

Spurs: Ginobili: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope. Parker: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

LeBron should have been MVP. No question.
Lebron's not that great at defense yet either. He's just a huge Man-beast which makes up for some areas. He will have plenty MVP's in time though.

...Nash is pretty legit in my eyes. Most people on here like to look at everything but this season. 81 and Age won't cut it. Nash was reigning MVP, no one really made their case to take it from him.

In short here's the sole reasons Nash won that the voters would try to deny, and sweep under the rug:
(Not ignoring the fact that all these guys bring it for their teams pretty much equally. Take any of them out, Each team sucks. regardless whose does a little more)

Lebron = too young
Dirk = too soft
Kobe = asshole
Nash = Nice guy.

I rest my case.

[1Parker1]

Lebron = too young
Dirk = too soft
Kobe = asshole
Nash = Nice guy.

I rest my case.

:lmao Is that the NBA's official criteria for selecting MVP?

[Nashfan]

Shoogar,

MVP is not an award for defense, so what is your point? :rolleyes Don't really think Rip and Chauncey are doing that well against the Cavs. As for Manu, his defense (if you call it that) is to flop and act like he has been shot. Parker can't keep in front of his man either, he also has Duncan to cover for his mistakes. If Amare or Kurt Thomas were playing they would be helping Nash. I repeat, MVP is not a defensive award so you make no sense! :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah... Passed over star as in back to his unknown status of a few years ago when he averaged 21 points, 9+ rebounds, 2+ steals and wasn't named to the All-Star team because the Suns were en route to their worst record ever.
You mean en route to their worst record since 1999.

[Obstructed_View]

I repeat, MVP is not a defensive award so you make no sense! :lol

MVP is obviously not an award for best player on your own team or best player at your own position, either.

[Nashfan]

Never said MVP was an award for best player on any team, though he is the most valuable player on our team. Without him we would not have gone this far this year or last year. He does happen to be the best player in the NBA at his position though. Just look at your point guard if thats what you would call him. He hardly ever gets any assists, actually I think Tim Duncan had the most assists for your team in the last game against the Mavs if I remember correctly. I think you guy's have enough to worry about with defending your title right now instead of pointing out shortcomings on other players, such as Nash. Take Duncan off your team and you probably would not have gone this far. :rolleyes

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Don't get too offended, they're just overreacting to his back-to-back MVP's...Every player's got weaknesses anyway, they're just holding a grudge against Nash this year.

[JMarkJohns]

You mean en route to their worst record since 1999.

Well, no... We were both wrong. Outside of their 16-66 expansion season and the 27-23 lockout season, the Suns have had just two sub-30 win seasons, a 28-54 season of 1987-88 and the 29-53 season of 2003-04.

I was refering to the 2003-04 season.

You referenced the 1998-99, lockout-shortened season of 27-23.

I thought Phoenix tied the 28-54 mark, but they won 3-of-their-last-4 to overcome...

[747]

Does the fact that the league's GM's voted Nash the 05-06 MVP strengthen his case? Or are the GM's racist and blinded by his flashy passses as well?

http://members.cox.net/seven47/mvp.jpg

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Does the fact that the league's GM's voted Nash the 05-06 MVP strengthen his case? Or are the GM's racist and blinded by his flashy passses as well?

http://members.cox.net/seven47/mvp.jpg


Not until all 30 GMs respond to the survey...

[JMarkJohns]

Not until all 30 GMs respond to the survey...

Like in any voting process, the only opinion that matters is the one filled out at the ballot. Only those who vote have the right to agree or disagree.

Those GM's who refused/failed to vote cannot now criticize the outcome.

We as fans can't diminish the opinion of those who did vote because of the absense of a few.

Of those GM's polled, Nash won.

As mentioned elsewhere, he was co-MVP with LeBron in Sporting News' opinion.

That's three services who said he's, at the very least, worthy to be mentioned for the honor.

Unlike the ruling opinion here, that Nash's weaknesses should weigh in heavier than his strengths, despite his strengths having far more impact on him, his team and the NBA than his weaknesses.

Everytime I think I'm out...

If this is any consolation, I voted for Dirk both here and at the site I moderate.

[Dunc]

OK, so were on to spelling critiques... clever boy!

It was done on purpose because this thread needed an anal-retentive spellchecker and HEY! What do ya know, I FOUND ONE!


Lol, I have to admit that this was kinda funny :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Well, no... We were both wrong. Outside of their 16-66 expansion season and the 27-23 lockout season, the Suns have had just two sub-30 win seasons, a 28-54 season of 1987-88 and the 29-53 season of 2003-04.

I was refering to the 2003-04 season.

You referenced the 1998-99, lockout-shortened season of 27-23.

I thought Phoenix tied the 28-54 mark, but they won 3-of-their-last-4 to overcome...
DOH. Yeah, I fucked that up.

[Obstructed_View]

Never said MVP was an award for best player on any team, though he is the most valuable player on our team. Without him we would not have gone this far this year or last year. He does happen to be the best player in the NBA at his position though. Just look at your point guard if thats what you would call him. He hardly ever gets any assists, actually I think Tim Duncan had the most assists for your team in the last game against the Mavs if I remember correctly. I think you guy's have enough to worry about with defending your title right now instead of pointing out shortcomings on other players, such as Nash. Take Duncan off your team and you probably would not have gone this far. :rolleyes
Way to avoid the question.

Nash gets more assists than Tony Parker. That's a convincing argument for Nash for MVP.

Duncan had more assists than Parker in a game. That's a convincing argument for Nash for MVP.

Just so you know, I didn't get the memo that the MVP trophy is the new award for leading the league in assists. John Stockton and Mark Jackson must be pissed.

By the way, Einstein, I'm not defending a title. I'm not a professional basketball player. I'm a fan who thinks Steve Nash is extremely overrated. Does that mean I don't think he's good? Hardly. Does it mean I don't think he elevates his game in the playoffs and in crunch time? Hardly. But don't sit there and try to defend back to back MVP titles for the guy, because historically he doesn't match up at all, and the factors that voters used to defend his MVP vote last year aren't here this year, yet they still voted for him. Most of the fucking voters don't even watch Nash play because they go to bed before the Suns play. You as a Suns fan and a blind homer can be happy about it all you want. You just look like an idiot trying to defend it, because you don't have any ammunition.

[Nashfan]

Obstructed View, your name really says it all. :rolleyes Did you look at the name of the thread? :lol Also did you look at the stats of all the other players considered for MVP? Nash's stats are better if you look at percentages and minutes played. Who do you think should have won the MVP? Certainly not someone on the Spurs? :smokin I never said you were defending the title, your team is trying to defend their title. :rolleyes You say most of the voters don't even watch Nash play, do you not think that they have DVR's to record the games and then watch them? :lol I don't consider myself anymore of a homer than you. :rolleyes Also for the John Stockton argument, he also had Malone, I think every year that he played and they never won a championship either. Malone was also more accomplished than Amare so don't really understand your point here. I don't remember who Mark Jackson played with and his stats so cannot comment on this point of yours. You can think Nash is extremely overrated all you want, that is your opinion and that is what I think message boards are about. Stop being angry because Nash was VOTED two time MVP and get a life! :baby I also don't think you have any ammunition either.

[sickdsm]

He averaged 20 pts per game in college.....



:lol



Everyone scored in college....

[The-Wizz]

i doubt it because look at all the ppl who are stuck on the benches on all the teams i bet hes better then atleast 1 or 2 of those guys lol

[The-Wizz]

Obstructed View, your name really says it all. :rolleyes Did you look at the name of the thread? :lol Also did you look at the stats of all the other players considered for MVP? Nash's stats are better if you look at percentages and minutes played. Who do you think should have won the MVP? Certainly not someone on the Spurs? :smokin I never said you were defending the title, your team is trying to defend their title. :rolleyes You say most of the voters don't even watch Nash play, do you not think that they have DVR's to record the games and then watch them? :lol I don't consider myself anymore of a homer than you. :rolleyes Also for the John Stockton argument, he also had Malone, I think every year that he played and they never won a championship either. Malone was also more accomplished than Amare so don't really understand your point here. I don't remember who Mark Jackson played with and his stats so cannot comment on this point of yours. You can think Nash is extremely overrated all you want, that is your opinion and that is what I think message boards are about. Stop being angry because Nash was VOTED two time MVP and get a life! :baby I also don't think you have any ammunition either.

in all that mumbo jumbo i dont see you saying that he isnt a bad defender :lol

[Nashfan]

The-Wizz,

If you check post number forty-six on page two of this thread you will see that I said I don't think he is a good defender. Read the whole thread before you open your mouth. :rolleyes

[747]

You as a Suns fan and a blind homer can be happy about it all you want. You just look like an idiot trying to defend it, because you don't have any ammunition.

Except for two MVP trophies in the chamber.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol 2 wasted trophies..give them to a player that deserves it..nash has got to be the one of worst defenders in the league..well not just nash but the entire suns squad so you can't just blame him

[The-Wizz]

nashfan this thread is 2 big to read the whole thing if you read the whole thing then you need to get a life i usually read first page and last page thats it that all foks

[Rip-Hamilton32]

lol, wizz you don't have a life so i don't see why you didn't read the entire post

[The-Wizz]

coming from a guy who has jsut posted in like 10 different topics without giving anyone time to reply in one of thsoe topics

[747]

Nash isnt a shut down defender, but he certainly isnt as bad as you want to make him out to be.

Steve Nash held his opponets to 49.7% field goal percentage.

Chauncey Billups held his opponents to 47.7% field goal percentage.

Over the course of an entire game, that may equal an extra basket at the most. Not exactly a huge issue.

Just for fun (during the 05-06 season)...

The Suns held their opponents to 45.4% field goal percentage.

The Pistons held their opponents to 45.2% field goal percentage.

[Bob Lanier]

Opponents FG% is a bullshit stat. Witness: Sam Cassell is being guarded by Shawn Marion. Sam Cassell is guarding ... Quinton Ross (see the point of this thread). And while Chauncey Billups is an overrated defender, Steve Nash is every bit as bad as he's made out to be. That's not to say he doesn't try; but either way he's just bad.

[747]

How often is Marion guarding a point guard? The vast majority of the time, Marion is on the PF...and Nash is on the PG.

I'll play along though...

Opponent FGP is a bogus stat. Fine. Tell me how else you can prove that Nash is the worst defender in the league. And I dont want to hear "because Scotty Pippen says so" or "BJ Armstrong blogged about it once".

The fact is that the Suns opponents score a ton of points. People automatically assume that it is because they are horrid defensively. That isnt the case. The Suns play decent defense, but with their offensive system, their opponents have about 10 more possessions a game than a Detroit or a San Antonio.

All that said, I am happy to concede that Nash is never going to squeeze anyone off the All-Defensive team. Calling him the "worst defensive player ever" however, is pure hyperbole.

[JMarkJohns]

A PG's defense is literally a by-product of his top shot-blocker. You got a great one (or two in Detroit's case) and your PG looks infinately better.

You have none (like Phoenix) and your PG looks infinately worse.

Obviously the PG is still a bad defender, but the shot-blocking keeps the opposition from constantly driving the lane, thus making your PG look that much better.

Nash is bad. Cassell is probably just as. Parke isn't good. Neither is Billups. Thing is, the last three have legit shot-blockers backing them up.

I'm convinced that's all a PG needs on defense is a top-notch shotblocker behind.

[tempe85]

I've said this again and again, Nash is a great player. However, his stats and greatness is greatly dependent upon the type of system in which he plays in. When you have a run and gun offense, and athletic players around you who can run and catch the ball, like Marion, Bell, Diaw, etc. you're going to rack up the assists and point totals. The same thing happened to Nash in Dallas when he was there.

Which leads me to my point: What exactly has Nash done differently in Pheonix than he did with his years with the Mavs? Mavs ended the one year with Nash with 60 wins and had 50+ win seasons......yet Nash was never even mentioned for MVP back then. And if you argue it was because he had Dirk next to him...well now he has Shawn Marion. So, what is he doing so differently with the Suns? His stats are up? Well, that is due to the system he plays in now, which I mentioned above. Like Simmons said in his one article, Nash winning the MVP last year was "cute,"...but this year? No way.



Name one other MVP that hasn't played in a system which fits their style pretty well. You can't blame Nash for finally being utilized to his highest potential. It's like saying that if you had Shaq on a run and gun team early in his career... and he wasn't nearly as dominant of a player when he finally found a team that slowed up the game and relied more on post players that because he couldn't perform at the same level in both systems that makes him a worse palyer. It's BS. And by the way... I'm sorry but the Suns and Mavs system are A LOT different. Nash is being utilized more than he ever was before.

Anyways I know you're just bitter because your boy Duncan isn't the only two time MVP currently playing. It's cool... I can understand.

On a side note the only reason people say Nash is the "worst defender in the league" is because they have nothing else to use against him in the MVP arguement... so they exaggerate his only real weakness to make it sound like they actually have a point. Nash is a below average defender but not really as bad as most people are trying to make him out to be. The PG PER numbers against Phoenix ranks around the 5th worst in the league... (meaning the Suns were able to hold the opposing PG down more than any team other than just four... check it out for yourself on 82games.com). You know what... if Nash is such a crapy defender but pixie dust makes the opposing PG play that badly.. then hell I'll take it any day of the week.