Game 6 and the shot clock question

[theotherdodge]

I want to hear you guys/gals input. I am suprised no one has talked about this:

With about 6.5 seconds on the game clock and 5 seconds on the shot clock, Bowen tied up Dirk for a jump ball. During the jump the game clock starts to run and the shot clock immediately goes to 0 as if it no longer in effect. Why did this happen? Why didn't the shot clock keep running also? There was no CHANGE of possession. Then with about 2.5 seconds left on the game clock there was another jump ball because no one regained possession.

My point is, if Dirk would have tipped that ball in (The shot that "nut puncher" airballed) the Mavs would have won, when really, that shot should not have counted because the shot clock would have expired with 1.5 seconds left on the game clock.

My understanding is that when there is a jump ball (because of a tie up) there is NO change of possesion and the shot clock will not be reset. Otherwise, this could penalize the defense for playing good defense.

Anyone to clarify the rules on the shot clock?

[DuncanInYourFace]

Yea I'd like to know the answer to this as well

[CosmicCowboy]

shot clock resets on a jump ball. With the shot clock > game clock, they turned to shot clock off and game clock became the shot clock.

[angel_luv]

Do you mean game 5 ?

[theotherdodge]

NOT true Cosmic. The defense does not get penalized for playing good defense and causing a jump ball.

For example, if a defender ties up an offensive player with 1 on the shot clock and there is a jump ball, and the "offense" gets the ball, they get a new shot clock and all that defense was wasted? Nope. Seen it happen and discussed by the announcers several times.

Also, IF that were the case, why did the shot clock still show 5 seconds until after the jump ball started to occur? Why not turn the shot clock off before the play as they do when at the end of the quarter/game?

[theotherdodge]

Whoops...ya game 5.

[Obstructed_View]

shot clock resets on a jump ball. With the shot clock > game clock, they turned to shot clock off and game clock became the shot clock.
I'm too lazy to go look it up. Is that a recent rule change? I remember the exact same situation where Popeye Jones had to win the tip and get the ball to the rim in the same motion, because there wasn't time for someone to catch and shoot. He made the basket.

[thekingrobert]

if the team who had the ball last dallas in this case the clock would reset to 14 secs but there wasnt 14 secs left in the game so it became the game clock indeed

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I think the rule change just causes the shot clock to be reset to 5 on a jump ball, instead of all the way to 14 (or 24, I don't remember the old rule).

[theotherdodge]

"if the team who had the ball last dallas in this case the clock would reset to 14 secs but there wasnt 14 secs left in the game so it became the game clock indeed"

Come on, that's crazy. So, if there was 1 second on the shot clock and I had the ball 25 feet from the basket and was covered well (with no chance of getting a good shot off), I should show the defender the ball so he will grab it for a jump ball. At least that way, if I get the tap, I get a new (14 sec) shot clock? If not, I still don't lose anything. uh-uh...

[leemajors]

i thought a jump ball meant neither team had posession. the shot clock would reset when one team gained posession after the tip - it would be silly to call a jump ball and penalize a team for winning it by not giving them their full shot clock.

[CosmicCowboy]

"if the team who had the ball last dallas in this case the clock would reset to 14 secs but there wasnt 14 secs left in the game so it became the game clock indeed"

Come on, that's crazy. So, if there was 1 second on the shot clock and I had the ball 25 feet from the basket and was covered well (with no chance of getting a good shot off), I should show the defender the ball so he will grab it for a jump ball. At least that way, if I get the tap, I get a new (14 sec) shot clock? If not, I still don't lose anything. uh-uh...

It may be crazy, but that's the rule. It changed last year. If the team retains the ball after the jump, the shot clock either stays the same or resets to 14, whichever is greater. It's one of those "we need more offense in the NBA" rules...

Here is the exact language:



Section IV-Resetting 24-Second Clock
a. The 24-second clock shall be reset when a special situation occurs which warrants such action.
b. The 24-second clock is never reset on technical fouls called on the offensive team.
c. The 24-second clock shall be reset to 24 seconds anytime the following occurs:
(1) Change of possession
(2) Ball contacting the basket ring of the team which is in possession
(3) Personal foul where ball is being inbounded in backcourt
(4) Violation where ball is being inbounded in backcourt
(5) Jump balls which are not the result of a held ball caused by the defense
d. The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 14 seconds, whichever is greater, anytime the following occurs:
(1) Personal foul by the defense where ball is being inbounded in frontcourt
(2) Defensive three-second violation
(3) Technical fouls and/or delay-of-game warnings on the defensive team
(4) Kicked or punched ball by the defensive team with the ball being inbounded in the offensive team's front-court
(5) Infection control
(6) Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense
(7) All flagrant and punching fouls

[theotherdodge]

Here is a copy of the rules:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_7.html?nav=ArticleList

Section IV-Resetting 24-Second Clock
a. The 24-second clock shall be reset when a special situation occurs which warrants such action.
b. The 24-second clock is never reset on technical fouls called on the offensive team.
c. The 24-second clock shall be reset to 24 seconds anytime the following occurs:
(1) Change of possession
(2) Ball contacting the basket ring of the team which is in possession
(3) Personal foul where ball is being inbounded in backcourt
(4) Violation where ball is being inbounded in backcourt
(5) Jump balls which are not the result of a held ball caused by the defense
d. The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 14 seconds, whichever is greater, anytime the following occurs:
(1) Personal foul by the defense where ball is being inbounded in frontcourt
(2) Defensive three-second violation
(3) Technical fouls and/or delay-of-game warnings on the defensive team
(4) Kicked or punched ball by the defensive team with the ball being inbounded in the offensive team's front-court
(5) Infection control
(6) Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense
(7) All flagrant and punching fouls


There seems to be some contradition to the rules. Look at rule c5 and d6.

As for d6, the Mavs had not regained possesion of the ball when the shot clock was turned off. There was a bunch of scrambling and there was another jump ball.

[leemajors]

there is not a contradiction there, those are two separate provisions.

[theotherdodge]

Haha Cosmic... but look at rule c5.

"it would be silly to call a jump ball and penalize a team for winning it by not giving them their full shot clock." Look at it this way, you are penalizing the defense for playing good defense and rewarding the offence to being inept in not being able to get a shot off.

[Nbadan]

Here are the official NBA rules on the 24-second clock


Section IV-Resetting 24-Second Clock

a. The 24-second clock shall be reset when a special situation occurs which warrants such action.
b. The 24-second clock is never reset on technical fouls called on the offensive team.
c. The 24-second clock shall be reset to 24 seconds anytime the following occurs:

(1) Change of possession
(2) Ball contacting the basket ring of the team which is in possession
(3) Personal foul where ball is being inbounded in backcourt
(4) Violation where ball is being inbounded in backcourt
(5) Jump balls which are not the result of a held ball caused by the defense

d. The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 14 seconds, whichever is greater, anytime the following occurs:

(1) Personal foul by the defense where ball is being inbounded in frontcourt
(2) Defensive three-second violation
(3) Technical fouls and/or delay-of-game warnings on the defensive team
(4) Kicked or punched ball by the defensive team with the ball being inbounded in the offensive team's front-court
(5) Infection control
(6) Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense
(7) All flagrant and punching fouls

The NBA rulebook (http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_7.html?nav=ArticleList)

[CosmicCowboy]

c5 is for other situations...like an accidentally blown whistle with no foul or violation. Then they get a new 24.

[DuncanInYourFace]

d. The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 14 seconds, whichever is greater, anytime the following occurs:

(6) Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense

[Tony-Go MAVS]

I want to hear you guys/gals input. I am suprised no one has talked about this:

With about 6.5 seconds on the game clock and 5 seconds on the shot clock, Bowen tied up Dirk for a jump ball. During the jump the game clock starts to run and the shot clock immediately goes to 0 as if it no longer in effect. Why did this happen? Why didn't the shot clock keep running also? There was no CHANGE of possession. Then with about 2.5 seconds left on the game clock there was another jump ball because no one regained possession.

My point is, if Dirk would have tipped that ball in (The shot that "nut puncher" airballed) the Mavs would have won, when really, that shot should not have counted because the shot clock would have expired with 1.5 seconds left on the game clock.

My understanding is that when there is a jump ball (because of a tie up) there is NO change of possesion and the shot clock will not be reset. Otherwise, this could penalize the defense for playing good defense.

Anyone to clarify the rules on the shot clock?



YOu guys WON THE GAME!!! Why are you still bitching. DAMN...I hate the Spurs!!!

[theotherdodge]

Yes they are seperate provisions but contradiction in spirit.


c. The 24-second clock shall be reset to 24 seconds anytime....Jump balls which are NOT the result of a held ball caused by the defense

d. The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 14 seconds, whichever is greater, Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense

So they are saying in one breath, that jump balls (held ball) do not reset the shot clock and in the other saying, that it should (or to 14 or whatever the time if greater than 14)

Im not trying to argue...I just think that it is confusing.

[leemajors]

Haha Cosmic... but look at rule c5.

"it would be silly to call a jump ball and penalize a team for winning it by not giving them their full shot clock." Look at it this way, you are penalizing the defense for playing good defense and rewarding the offence to being inept in not being able to get a shot off.

they are giving the defense a chance to gain posession. giving the offense addittional time this year was kinda weird though.

[Nbadan]

Sorry, you guys are too quick. My thoughts are that the ball never changed possession on Bowen's block, so at the first jump ball the clock is reset.

[Obstructed_View]

By my interpretation of those rules, the shot clock might have been at whatever it was during the jumps, but was immediately turned off the second the Mavs gained possession. It makes sense that they would have a rule that doesn't penalize the offensive team for the jump ball so long as they win the tip.

[theotherdodge]

"YOu guys WON THE GAME!!! Why are you still bitching. DAMN...I hate the Spurs!!!"

Because intelligent fans such as SPURS fans can see "outside the box" rather than "just the final score"..."or where someone's nuts are"...

[Obstructed_View]

Yes they are seperate provisions but contradiction in spirit.


c. The 24-second clock shall be reset to 24 seconds anytime....Jump balls which are NOT the result of a held ball caused by the defense

d. The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 14 seconds, whichever is greater, Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense

So they are saying in one breath, that jump balls (held ball) do not reset the shot clock and in the other saying, that it should (or to 14 or whatever the time if greater than 14)

Im not trying to argue...I just think that it is confusing.
What causes jump balls that are not the result of a held ball? Off the top of my head, all I can think of are inadvertent whistles and when the officials can't make a call.

[CosmicCowboy]

Technically, the timer should have turned the shot clock off when the jump ball was called since either outcome (offense/defense getting the ball) would have resulted in the game clock becoming the shot clock. The timer was just a little slow turning it off.

[Obstructed_View]

YOu guys WON THE GAME!!! Why are you still bitching. DAMN...I hate the Spurs!!!
Okay. Bye.

[theotherdodge]

Obstructed: a double foul for example. I think... I know if the ball gets stuck between the rim and backboard. Also, I know with an inadvertent whistle, the play just resumes.

[Obstructed_View]

Technically, the timer should have turned the shot clock off when the jump ball was called since either outcome (offense/defense getting the ball) would have resulted in the game clock becoming the shot clock. The timer was just a little slow turning it off.
Yeah, that's right. And I thought of the ball getting stuck after I posted. I forgot about double foul.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, that's right. And I thought of the ball getting stuck after I posted. I forgot about double foul.

Actually, the timer was probably slow on the button because he was staring at Jason Terry in absolute amazement thinking...

"I can't BELIEVE that punkass bitch just punched Michael Finley in the nuts!"

:lmao

[Obstructed_View]

I'm just glad Finley didn't get a technical for that. If the Spurs had their season end on a punch that the league office caught but the officials didn't, I don't know what.