The evolution of Mathematics

[Yonivore]

Last week I purchased a burger and fries for $3.58.

The counter girl took my $4.00 and I pulled 8 cents from my pocket
and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel and 3 pennies. While
looking at the screen on her register, I sensed her discomfort and tried to
tell her to just give me two quarters, but she hailed the manager for help.
While he tried to explain the transaction to her, she stood there, smacking her gum and rolling her eyes.

Why do I tell you this?

Because of the evolution in teaching math since the 1950s.

Teaching Math In 1950:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is 4/5 of the price.

What is his profit?

Teaching Math In 1960:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is 4/5 of the price, or $80.

What is his profit?

Teaching Math In 1970:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is $80.

Did he make a profit?

Teaching Math In 1980:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of
production is $80 and his profit is $20.

Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math In 1990:
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20.

How do you feel about this way of making a living?

Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes?

Teaching Math In 2000:
A logger sells uh '64 full o' lumber fo' uh hundred bones. His cost o' making da sheeit iz 80 bones an' his coin back in da hood iz 20.

Can ya gank an uzi? an dat boil on mah ass.

Teaching Math In 2005:
Un ranchero vende una carretera de madera para $1,126.09. La cuesto de su produccion era $900.80.

Cuantas tortillas se puede comprar?

[Oh, Gee!!]

sounds like a joke my dad would e-mail me.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

yeah.... ummmmm.... might have something to do with no child left behind. And as a side note... you're a bigot

[Yonivore]

yeah.... ummmmm.... might have something to do with no child left behind. And as a side note... you're a bigot
Hey, I'm not the one who tried to get Ebonics (I got the translation off of some website) as part of the curriculum in California. Nor, am I a proponent of bi-lingual education anywhere.

When in the United States of America, speak English.

And, as a side note, you're stupid.

[Vashner]

Here is how they teach math now..

"Ok kids turn on your computer.. now let's talk about how Bush is the evil empire"..

[turambar85]

Vashner, Yonivore...I am impressed. The two of you are single handedly giving conservatives everywhere a bad name. To think that I agree with the essence of much of what was said; that the school systems are completely screwed up, that teaching ebonics in a classroom is absurd, and that young people are completely ignorant, but then at the end you both manage to fuck it up. I am constantly amazed and overwhelmed by the lack of creativity, intelligence, or reason that you constantly evince in this forum, I don't know whether to applaude you for reaching a new low, condemn you for being ignorant bigots, or to feel sorry for you for not quite having the mental capacity to function in everyday society. I am thoroughly perplexed.

[Yonivore]

Vashner, Yonivore...I am impressed. The two of you are single handedly giving conservatives everywhere a bad name. To think that I agree with the essence of much of what was said; that the school systems are completely screwed up, that teaching ebonics in a classroom is absurd, and that young people are completely ignorant, but then at the end you both manage to fuck it up. I am constantly amazed and overwhelmed by the lack of creativity, intelligence, or reason that you constantly evince in this forum, I don't know whether to applaude you for reaching a new low, condemn you for being ignorant bigots, or to feel sorry for you for not quite having the mental capacity to function in everyday society. I am thoroughly perplexed.
Yeah, and?

Oh, and if we managed to "fuck it up," as you say...in an sports forum's obscure political wing then conservativism is worse off than you imagine.

[turambar85]

Well, I simply thought that a compliment/sympathetic gesture/or condemnation was in order, and just wanted some input on which of three would be fair.

[Yonivore]

Well, I simply thought that a compliment/sympathetic gesture/or condemnation was in order, and just wanted some input on which of three would be fair.
I agree, you're perplexed. Let's move on.

[turambar85]

I now have my answer, thank you good sir, now we can move along.

[xrayzebra]

yeah.... ummmmm.... might have something to do with no child left behind. And as a side note... you're a bigot

See my thread: "Let's Talk Liberalism". :lol

[TreeWhisperer]

Hey, I'm not the one who tried to get Ebonics (I got the translation off of some website) as part of the curriculum in California. Nor, am I a proponent of bi-lingual education anywhere.

When in the United States of America, speak English.

And, as a side note, you're stupid.

Well, I'm truly happy for you... it's nice to see someone who is completely content with their pathetic ignorance. Have fun being the only person in the world who is so uneducated and so much of a redneck that he actually thinks that being bilingual is a bad thing. Also have fun while sitting on your front porch, waving the rebel flag, and hating all non-English speakers. God forbid we have more than one culture in this country.

Bigot!

Oh, btw, "you're stupid" is NOT a respectable burn. Good God, grow some creativity. :lol

[Guru of Nothing]

Today's math - $1 for greedy republicans, $1 for foolish democrats, and $1 for me.

[Mr. Peabody]

Well, I'm truly happy for you... it's nice to see someone who is completely content with their pathetic ignorance. Have fun being the only person in the world who is so uneducated and so much of a redneck that he actually thinks that being bilingual is a bad thing. Also have fun while sitting on your front porch, waving the rebel flag, and hating all non-English speakers. God forbid we have more than one culture in this country.

Bigot!

Oh, btw, "you're stupid" is NOT a respectable burn. Good God, grow some creativity. :lol

pwnt.

[velik_m]

on topic:
this would make an interesting study: how good do today's students solve yesterday's math assignments, compared to yesterday's students?

[xrayzebra]

on topic:
this would make an interesting study: how good do today's students solve yesterday's math assignments, compared to yesterday's students?

It would be indeed. Without the Caculator's. I sometime wonder if the
kids of today and can do math with pen and paper. Our kids now days
are not stupid by any means. Look at the strides being made in many
areas of learning.

[DarkReign]

Teaching Math In 2000:
A logger sells uh '64 full o' lumber fo' uh hundred bones. His cost o' making da sheeit iz 80 bones an' his coin back in da hood iz 20.

Can ya gank an uzi? an dat boil on mah ass.

:lol :lol :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

It's interesting to me that some will push to make make English the unifying national language, only to butcher that language in trying to make that point. It just reminds me that in some ways, English is a curious choice because many Americans struggle to speak or write that language correctly.

I'm sure we can blame those struggles on immigrants as well.

[Yonivore]

Well, I'm truly happy for you... it's nice to see someone who is completely content with their pathetic ignorance. Have fun being the only person in the world who is so uneducated and so much of a redneck that he actually thinks that being bilingual is a bad thing.
I never said being bilingual was a bad thing. I said that government schools should be taught in english. Who's being ignorant.

If you're going to require that there be bilingual teachers, why not trilingual or omnilingual. Do you think Mexicans are the only immigrants in our public schools? Why, just because they are fewer in number, do the Vietnamese, Nigerian, Chinese, Japanese, French, Russian, etc...not deserve public educators that speak their language? Where does it stop?

I'd love to learn several languages and am working on two, Japanese and Spanish, so that I can communicate with those people -- in their language -- when I visit their country, as I plan to do in the next year.


Also have fun while sitting on your front porch, waving the rebel flag,
I fly the American Flag in my front yard, thank you very much.


and hating all non-English speakers.
This "hate" cannard is real old.


God forbid we have more than one culture in this country.
It's not about culture, it's about national identity, assimilation, and unity.


Bigot!
You'd be surprised, I think, of just how unbigoted I am. But, think what you will.


Oh, btw, "you're stupid" is NOT a respectable burn. Good God, grow some creativity. :lol
Some things don't require "creativity." I didn't want to talk over his head and him miss my point.

You're just as stupid.

[Yonivore]

pwnt.
Not.

[TreeWhisperer]

I never said being bilingual was a bad thing. I said that government schools should be taught in english. Who's being ignorant.

If you're going to require that there be bilingual teachers, why not trilingual or omnilingual. Do you think Mexicans are the only immigrants in our public schools? Why, just because they are fewer in number, do the Vietnamese, Nigerian, Chinese, Japanese, French, Russian, etc...not deserve public educators that speak their language? Where does it stop?

I'd love to learn several languages and am working on two, Japanese and Spanish, so that I can communicate with those people -- in their language -- when I visit their country, as I plan to do in the next year.


I fly the American Flag in my front yard, thank you very much.


This "hate" cannard is real old.


It's not about culture, it's about national identity, assimilation, and unity.


You'd be surprised, I think, of just how unbigoted I am. But, think what you will.


Some things don't require "creativity." I didn't want to talk over his head and him miss my point.

You're just as stupid.

Hey man, I'm not the only one who thinks you're an ignorant bigot. And if you say the things you've been saying, people are going to call you on them. I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing the term "hate" applied to you, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... BTW, assimilation is a very, very BAD thing. There is nothing wrong with diverse cultures living together; America is not a melting pot.

Also, the majority of non-natives in this country do indeed speak Spanish. Certainly, there are Asian-Americans and French-Americans and many more, but the overwhelming population of ESL people are native to Spanish. Therefore, it wouldn't make any sense for us to be teaching German or something.

BTW, for the love of God, don't call me stupid because the lack of effort just pains me. You might as well just call me a dumb-dumb face or something equally worthwhile. :lol

[DarkReign]

Hey man, I'm not the only one who thinks you're an ignorant bigot. And if you say the things you've been saying, people are going to call you on them. I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing the term "hate" applied to you, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... BTW, assimilation is a very, very BAD thing. There is nothing wrong with diverse cultures living together; America is not a melting pot.

O yes there is a problem! Multi-cultural societies do not work. Period. America is a melting pot.


Also, the majority of non-natives in this country do indeed speak Spanish. Certainly, there are Asian-Americans and French-Americans and many more, but the overwhelming population of ESL people are native to Spanish. Therefore, it wouldn't make any sense for us to be teaching German or something.

Oh really? Just wait. If Germans reproduced at the preposterous rate Latin people did, youd be singing a different tune. So basically, youre saying because Latino people fuck more than anyone else, entitles them to have dual-language bullshit rules enforced? When is the last time you made a phone call to a company in Mexico and they had an English option?


BTW, for the love of God, don't call me stupid because the lack of effort just pains me. You might as well just call me a dumb-dumb face or something equally worthwhile. :lol

Meh, cant argue with that.

[Yonivore]

Hey man, I'm not the only one who thinks you're an ignorant bigot. And if you say the things you've been saying, people are going to call you on them. I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing the term "hate" applied to you, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... BTW, assimilation is a very, very BAD thing. There is nothing wrong with diverse cultures living together; America is not a melting pot.
You don't understand the term bigot. That makes you stupid.


Also, the majority of non-natives in this country do indeed speak Spanish. Certainly, there are Asian-Americans and French-Americans and many more, but the overwhelming population of ESL people are native to Spanish. Therefore, it wouldn't make any sense for us to be teaching German or something.
The majority of citizens in this country are english-speaking as a first language. Using your logic, it makes no sense to abide any other language, Stupid.


BTW, for the love of God, don't call me stupid because the lack of effort just pains me. You might as well just call me a dumb-dumb face or something equally worthwhile. :lol
Okay, dumb-dumb face.

[Yonivore]

BTW, assimilation is a very, very BAD thing. There is nothing wrong with diverse cultures living together; America is not a melting pot.
Dang, I meant to specifically address this. What do you mean?

Because, if recent memory serves me, France just damn near became an Islamic nation due to the rioting of unassimilated immigrants from North African Muslim nations.

Look at the Muslims in this country. For the most part, they're woven into our culture, our work places, and our neighborhoods.

Assimilation is a good thing. When in Rome...

[DarkReign]

When in Rome...

Exactly.

[Nbadan]

on topic:
this would make an interesting study: how good do today's students solve yesterday's math assignments, compared to yesterday's students?

Math is easier at the college level than it was just a decade ago. Most degrees require only minimal algebra expertise. Those who go on to Trig or Cal, the minimum in some countries, are usually engineers, scientists, and math majors.

[xrayzebra]

Hey man, I'm not the only one who thinks you're an ignorant bigot. And if you say the things you've been saying, people are going to call you on them. I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing the term "hate" applied to you, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... BTW, assimilation is a very, very BAD thing. There is nothing wrong with diverse cultures living together; America is not a melting pot.

Also, the majority of non-natives in this country do indeed speak Spanish. Certainly, there are Asian-Americans and French-Americans and many more, but the overwhelming population of ESL people are native to Spanish. Therefore, it wouldn't make any sense for us to be teaching German or something.

BTW, for the love of God, don't call me stupid because the lack of effort just pains me. You might as well just call me a dumb-dumb face or something equally worthwhile. :lol

I'm calling you stupid, ignorant and pathetic. Your grasp
of the United States is indeed dumb, dumb and dumber.
I only hope you aren't Hispanic because you show the
truly dark side of that race if you are. Assimilation is
a bad thing! What a profoundly stupid statement. Ever
heard of the tower of babble. Go away, you may be only
person I have ever considered on putting on my ignore list.

[FromWayDowntown]

Ever heard of the tower of babble.

That must be the nickname for the Political Forum on spurstalk.com, and I hadn't heard that before.

I had heard of the Tower of Babel, though. :D

[xrayzebra]

That must be the nickname for the Political Forum on spurstalk.com, and I hadn't heard that before.

I had heard of the Tower of Babel, though. :D

Yeah, another little blunder I committed today. But you
obviously got the point.
:angel

[Yonivore]

That must be the nickname for the Political Forum on spurstalk.com, and I hadn't heard that before.

I had heard of the Tower of Babel, though. :D
I like that. Any chance we can get Kori to change this from the Politics forum to the Tower of Babble forum?

Make Nbadan the Chief Babbler.

[TreeWhisperer]

O yes there is a problem! Multi-cultural societies do not work. Period. America is a melting pot.

Oh really? Just wait. If Germans reproduced at the preposterous rate Latin people did, youd be singing a different tune. So basically, youre saying because Latino people fuck more than anyone else, entitles them to have dual-language bullshit rules enforced? When is the last time you made a phone call to a company in Mexico and they had an English option?

Meh, cant argue with that.

Oh no, multicultural societies could work just fine if it weren't for uncompassionate bigots like you. There's no reason that Latinos (or anyone else) should have to give up their language and culture just because they moved here. People like YOU are the reason that this country can't live in harmony with people different than us.

Do you actually go back and read what you write? Because you need a serious attitude adjustment. Bilinguality is not a bad thing! It's really sad to see people so insecure as yourself that they get their panties all in a wad if someone starts speaking a language they don't understand and are too lazy to learn. Wow... oh, and I haven't called Mexico anytime in the recent past.
Adios, enojado amigo...

Yeah, Yonivore is really hurting in the burn department....

[TreeWhisperer]

I'm calling you stupid, ignorant and pathetic. Your grasp
of the United States is indeed dumb, dumb and dumber.
I only hope you aren't Hispanic because you show the
truly dark side of that race if you are. Assimilation is
a bad thing! What a profoundly stupid statement. Ever
heard of the tower of babble. Go away, you may be only
person I have ever considered on putting on my ignore list.


Oh wah, wah.... don't ignore me! Cuz I really care... not. And yes, assimilation IS a bad thing. Maybe you don't know what it is...? It's when a culture is stripped of their own identity and forced to live exactly like everyone else. It's conformity, and I fail to see how that is a good thing. I think you are confusing assimilation with living in peace with the rest of society, which you can have without assimilation. And for the love of God, please don't use biblical stories in your arguments because they don't stand to everyone. And I believe that it is you, and not I, that are ignorant. You apparantly don't even know the definition of the word you're arguing about. Might wanna get clear on your concepts, buddy. As far for my grasp of this country, go ahead and try me. I'm a poly sci major and I can bet I'm ahead of you. BTW, it's none of your damn business what race I am. And I believe you are showing not only the dark side of whatever race you plague, but the dark side of humanity.

[TreeWhisperer]

You don't understand the term bigot. That makes you stupid.


The majority of citizens in this country are english-speaking as a first language. Using your logic, it makes no sense to abide any other language, Stupid.


Okay, dumb-dumb face.


Oh now you're just running out of ammo, aren't you? ACCORDING TO MERRIAM WEBSTER...

Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

That is YOU. In fact, you are such a bigot that you can't even stand it if people speak a language that you can't understand. Obviously, yours is better because it's yours, right? The majority of citizens speak English, but a large percentage of that majority also speak Spanish. It doesn't hurt you for people to be bilingual!

If you prefer to remain ignorant, that's your perogotive. But you can't be upset about other people not having the same opinions as you. Oh wait, yes you can because you're a bigot!

And, since you claimed it was I who don't understand the term bigot and was stupid, and it turned out that it is actually YOU that doesn't understand the term bigot... well, I'm not stooping to your level and using the only insult that you know. :lol

[101A]

In all seriousness...

My SECOND grader was given a calculator with her math book this year.

My Sixth grader has, for 3 years now, been taught "estimation" as a skill - it includes 3 different methods of what used to be called "rounding" - and, yes, you can "estimate" incorrectly (sometimes, the actual answer will be incorrect.

It is pretty much horrible.

BTW, as my wife is a professor, universities almost rely ENTIRELY on entrance exams now, and ignore grades. The schools don't actually grade for content knowledge of what the colleges and universities are looking for, so those grades are ignored.

[xrayzebra]

Oh wah, wah.... don't ignore me! Cuz I really care... not. And yes, assimilation IS a bad thing. Maybe you don't know what it is...? It's when a culture is stripped of their own identity and forced to live exactly like everyone else. It's conformity, and I fail to see how that is a good thing. I think you are confusing assimilation with living in peace with the rest of society, which you can have without assimilation. And for the love of God, please don't use biblical stories in your arguments because they don't stand to everyone. And I believe that it is you, and not I, that are ignorant. You apparantly don't even know the definition of the word you're arguing about. Might wanna get clear on your concepts, buddy. As far for my grasp of this country, go ahead and try me. I'm a poly sci major and I can bet I'm ahead of you. BTW, it's none of your damn business what race I am. And I believe you are showing not only the dark side of whatever race you plague, but the dark side of humanity.

Whooopppeee. You are poly sci major! That's makes you
a over educated idiot. I guess you would like tribes like
they have in the ME, right? And you are right, it is none of
my business what race you are, or is it, since you are so into keeping your
cultural heritage. That fact alone may affect my own
personal well being since you may object to me being just
a normal American person. That is I have no tribal
or heritage associations, just being an American. And you
may feel so threatened by this fact that you might insist
that I grant you special rights. Ooooops, we already do
that don't we?

[DarkReign]

Oh no, multicultural societies could work just fine if it weren't for uncompassionate bigots like you. There's no reason that Latinos (or anyone else) should have to give up their language and culture just because they moved here. People like YOU are the reason that this country can't live in harmony with people different than us.

Do you actually go back and read what you write? Because you need a serious attitude adjustment. Bilinguality is not a bad thing! It's really sad to see people so insecure as yourself that they get their panties all in a wad if someone starts speaking a language they don't understand and are too lazy to learn. Wow... oh, and I haven't called Mexico anytime in the recent past.
Adios, enojado amigo...

Yeah, Yonivore is really hurting in the burn department....

Youre a douche-bag. I never said they couldnt speak Spanish, what I meant was my children should not have to learn Spanish to communicate effectively in school, work, etc.

Youre saying the country should be bilingual. I am saying it shouldnt. Im a bigot for that? Not by my definition. Btw, go fuck yourself, Tree-hugger.

[turambar85]

I didn't know that the thought of an expanding culture would be so frightening to some people, and I honestly can't think of a reason why it should be. If no culture was ever dramatically influenced by those around it, or within it, our society would have regressed thousands of years. Hell, imagine if we hadnt come in and "influenced" the Native American culture, there would not be much of an America to be "destroyed" by multi-culturalism. And its funny to sit and think about this because the amount of cultural change that the immigrants are "threatening" to bring pales in comparison to what we did when we came to America. I almost laugh thinking about the emotion involved in this debate about becoming bilingual when so many countries around us already are, I think that it would only help our country to do so. We would no longer look like arrogant rednecks to the outside world, as individuals we would be more capable in global affairs, and we would finally be on par with the rest of the modern world. Our country is made of a mixture of many different "tribes" and cultures which all came together to evolve into the society you see today, maybe another, though smaller, evolution would be something to embrace as we seem to have stagnated.

[turambar85]

And I also find it curious that America is in such a backwards state of mind that the term "tree-hugger" is thought to be a grave insult. If we are Christians, which I imagine many are since all they can do is argue based on biblical texts, then we should love and embrace that which God has given us. If we are not religious, then we should still see the life-sustaining beauty and necessity of the world around us, and cherish the world which we have luckily chanced upon. The most beautiful things on earth are not skyscrapers and concrete jungles, but forests and canyons...that is why I constantly see vehicles from Michigan in Tennessee at the Smokey Mountain National Park. Nobody will drive that far to see a new wal-mart. Is is that bad to have a spiritual connection with one of Gods greatest gifts? And is it worse still to have the desire that our children have the joy of seeing the sames things which we have? I do not think so, and I pity the ignorant, simple-minded fools who view tree-hugger as an insult. I personally find it a lot less offensive than say, concrete-jungle lovers.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

WOW!
A funny JOKE starts the thread. The thread is then taken over by a blast of presuming, under-informed OPINIONS from angry, self-righteous political "thinkers."

You guys should just stick to making fun of each other.

Really funny joke up top; if one can get over oneself.

[JoeChalupa]

I like that. Any chance we can get Kori to change this from the Politics forum to the Tower of Babble forum?

Make Nbadan the Chief Babbler.

And you the Dick behind the Commander in Chief?

[smeagol]

I'm from Argentina and I found the joke amusing.

I don't see what's the big deal.

As for speaking, it is clear that more is better. I don't see a problem if in US schools people are taught other languages. I know people are in Argentina (or were when I went to school).

As for the term tree-hugger being derogatory (to some), that is pathetic.

[xrayzebra]

And I also find it curious that America is in such a backwards state of mind that the term "tree-hugger" is thought to be a grave insult. If we are Christians, which I imagine many are since all they can do is argue based on biblical texts, then we should love and embrace that which God has given us. ......I pity the ignorant, simple-minded fools who view tree-hugger as an insult. I personally find it a lot less offensive than say, concrete-jungle lovers.

Those that worship trees were called Druids. And the term tree-hugger, as an
educated person should know, is used to refer to people who are also called
"progressive" and chain themselves to trees supposedly to protect the
forest. They also embedded metal objects in trees to harm those who make
a living cutting them for the benefit of mankind. Maybe they should have
called themselves "druids" and demanded religious protection. You know
like those who worship Satan and are given religious protection.

[xrayzebra]

WOW!
A funny JOKE starts the thread. The thread is then taken over by a blast of presuming, under-informed OPINIONS from angry, self-righteous political "thinkers."

You guys should just stick to making fun of each other.

Really funny joke up top; if one can get over oneself.


My-o-my seems like you may have your dander up a little bit too. I see no one
that portrays themselves as self-righteous. Just speaking their mind on
a subject. Last time I checked that was still legal, unless McCain and
Finegold have slipped another one in on us.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

My-o-my seems like you may have your dander up a little bit too. I see no one
that portrays themselves as self-righteous. Just speaking their mind on
a subject. Last time I checked that was still legal, unless McCain and
Finegold have slipped another one in on us.

:blah :lol :lmao

[Jekka]

O yes there is a problem! Multi-cultural societies do not work. Period. America is a melting pot.

You're right. All of the varied indigenous American peoples had damn near exterminated themselves before Columbus got here. :rolleyes

[Extra Stout]

Oh wah, wah.... don't ignore me! Cuz I really care... not. And yes, assimilation IS a bad thing. Maybe you don't know what it is...? It's when a culture is stripped of their own identity and forced to live exactly like everyone else. It's conformity, and I fail to see how that is a good thing. I think you are confusing assimilation with living in peace with the rest of society, which you can have without assimilation. And for the love of God, please don't use biblical stories in your arguments because they don't stand to everyone. And I believe that it is you, and not I, that are ignorant. You apparantly don't even know the definition of the word you're arguing about. Might wanna get clear on your concepts, buddy. As far for my grasp of this country, go ahead and try me. I'm a poly sci major and I can bet I'm ahead of you. BTW, it's none of your damn business what race I am. And I believe you are showing not only the dark side of whatever race you plague, but the dark side of humanity.
Assimilation is a bad thing? All of it or part of it? How much of it is bad? Are you thinking about how it looks in the real world or just regurgitating some pointy-headed abstract idea that some professor told you, and thinking you're so smart because you're a poli sci major?

Because the last time I was in a heavily Mexican-American neighbood, there weren't little green Nissan taxis running everywhere, and there wasn't a milkman coming at irregular hours honking his horn, and people's whole front yard wasn't a tile patio, and all the houses weren't made out of concrete, and the businesses didn't close down for three hours in the middle of the day, and there weren't clotheslines strewn everywhere. I did not see a single chicken.

I suppose Mexican-Americans need to give up the idea of treating women equally and embrace machismo, because otherwise they're assimilating too much. They should avoid learning to think too much and just learn rote memorization skills to be faithful to the educational system of their cultures.

I guess if South Texas Latinos want to reverse this assimilation trend, they need to give up things like Tejano music, so heavily influenced by German polka as it is. Hey, Southsiders, you can't root for the Cowboys anymore. Root for Monterrey's soccer team instead. No more grilling out on the driveway with your buddies. No more H-E-B; you need to make multiple trips to the panaderia and the carneceria and the verdura stand, because assimilation is a bad thing, according to some omniscient college student who is here to explain the whole world to us, including who is and who is not a bigot.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Oh no, multicultural societies could work just fine if it weren't for uncompassionate bigots like you.

Name one multicultural society that is working out well.

As for English as our official language, the USA is currently the only country in the world without an official language.

The biggest thing I don't understand is that English is the official business language of the world

Do you realize how fucked up that is? Everyone interested in international business of any kind any where in the world learns English. But we're all bigots and/or racists for wanting it learned and spoken here as the official language of America?

Kind of ironic, don't you think?

My company does international business and we've got clients in 14 countries outside of the US, all the way to Russia. We can pick up the phone and have a conversation with them in English, but there's times I hit the language barrier when I run to the local corner store to pick up a candy bar or run to Wendy's for a burger.

It shouldn't be like that.

[DarkReign]

Name one multicultural society that is working out well.

As for English as our official language, the USA is currently the only country in the world without an official language.

The biggest thing I don't understand is that English is the official business language of the world

Do you realize how fucked up that is? Everyone interested in international business of any kind any where in the world learns English. But we're all bigots and/or racists for wanting it learned and spoken here as the official language of America?

Kind of ironic, don't you think?

My company does international business and we've got clients in 14 countries outside of the US, all the way to Russia. We can pick up the phone and have a conversation with them in English, but there's times I hit the language barrier when I run to the local corner store to pick up a candy bar or run to Wendy's for a burger.

It shouldn't be like that.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

While Tree-hugger was wasting his educational life on poly sci, others were actually, you know, working in the real world.

I export machines from Korea to France to Mexico and beyond.

Want to know the only thing in common I have with any of my customers and allows us to do business?

We all speak English.

My fiance's cousin was in town from Germany, he spoke English really well for a guy who hadnt spoke a lick of it in 6 years.

He said one thing ALOT in his time at my house....English is the language of money. Want to make money? Better learn English.

[DarkReign]

You're right. All of the varied indigenous American peoples had damn near exterminated themselves before Columbus got here. :rolleyes

Would you equate seperate and small distant tribes to society as it was known then?

They didnt call them savages for shits and giggles. Now, if all the natives voted in a nationwide election and shared common religion, then we could discuss their "homogenized" existence.

[Jekka]

Would you equate seperate and small distant tribes to society as it was known then?

They didnt call them savages for shits and giggles. Now, if all the natives voted in a nationwide election and shared common religion, then we could discuss their "homogenized" existence.

Go call a native person a savage and see what kind of reaction you get - you're so Eurocentric it's sickening. They were called savages by Europeans who were not willing to understand or respect their ways of life. Compare the track records of Europeans and American Indians at the time of contact - who was the savage? The explorers who raped and pillaged communities, took prisoners as slaves and killed the rest of the Indians they could find who were not suitable as slaves? Or the "savages" who had learned to live on the land without harming it, and had accepted the white man into their communities and taught them how to survive? I hate to break it to you, but Squanto was not sitting at the Thanksgiving table with the Pilgrims - his people were laying him to rest while Winthrop was thanking God that He had enabled the Pilgrims to kill as many Indians as possible ... while eating the food that the Indians had taught them to grow.

Many very different tribes lived in close approximation to each other and did just fine - even tribes that participated in seasonal warfare did so without intent to kill everyone. Most tribes also do have very similar traditional religions - they may have different creation stories, but most believe in the Great Spirit (who goes by many different names) that connects everyone and everything together.

And they didn't need a general election before contact because they were able to coexist and didn't need to unite against a common evil - the white man gave them a reason to do that, and for a modern example, I think AIM is a great example of different coexisting cultures getting along.

[JoeChalupa]

I get paid more because I'm bilingual. Knowing another language is a good thing.

[sickdsm]

And I also find it curious that America is in such a backwards state of mind that the term "tree-hugger" is thought to be a grave insult. If we are Christians, which I imagine many are since all they can do is argue based on biblical texts, then we should love and embrace that which God has given us. If we are not religious, then we should still see the life-sustaining beauty and necessity of the world around us, and cherish the world which we have luckily chanced upon. The most beautiful things on earth are not skyscrapers and concrete jungles, but forests and canyons...that is why I constantly see vehicles from Michigan in Tennessee at the Smokey Mountain National Park. Nobody will drive that far to see a new wal-mart. Is is that bad to have a spiritual connection with one of Gods greatest gifts? And is it worse still to have the desire that our children have the joy of seeing the sames things which we have? I do not think so, and I pity the ignorant, simple-minded fools who view tree-hugger as an insult. I personally find it a lot less offensive than say, concrete-jungle lovers.


Nobody drives that far for walmart because there so much more appreciated and popular than National Parks. If they weren't they be landscaping national parks and we'd all have to drive the the regional outlets now wouldn't we?


Obviosly you like civilizatiion much more than nature enough to be somewhere where you have internet.........

[sickdsm]

I get paid more because I'm bilingual. Knowing another language is a good thing.



Knowing how to file a motion of appeals, diagnose a stroke, and safely back up a semi with two trailers on it are good too but there things we do on our own if we feel that's what we want to pursue

[TreeWhisperer]

Youre a douche-bag. I never said they couldnt speak Spanish, what I meant was my children should not have to learn Spanish to communicate effectively in school, work, etc.

Youre saying the country should be bilingual. I am saying it shouldnt. Im a bigot for that? Not by my definition. Btw, go fuck yourself, Tree-hugger.

YOU reproduced....??? God help us. I hope your children aren't as ignorant and hateful as you. BTW, you better not ever speak to me that way again or I'll do my best to get your account deleted. You only say that if you're too stupid to come up with an actual argument, which you are.

[TreeWhisperer]

I'm from Argentina and I found the joke amusing.

I don't see what's the big deal.

As for speaking, it is clear that more is better. I don't see a problem if in US schools people are taught other languages. I know people are in Argentina (or were when I went to school).

As for the term tree-hugger being derogatory (to some), that is pathetic.

I take it as a compliment! :spin

[TreeWhisperer]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

While Tree-hugger was wasting his educational life on poly sci, others were actually, you know, working in the real world.

I export machines from Korea to France to Mexico and beyond.

Want to know the only thing in common I have with any of my customers and allows us to do business?

We all speak English.

My fiance's cousin was in town from Germany, he spoke English really well for a guy who hadnt spoke a lick of it in 6 years.

He said one thing ALOT in his time at my house....English is the language of money. Want to make money? Better learn English.

First, I'm a woman. Second, when I'm making laws in the Capitol, I'll think of you and your machine business. Funny, the guy from Germany speaks English... maybe cuz they aren't lazy asses like Americans. BTW, it really doesn't help your cause to bring up people from other countries that speak English when almost no one from here speaks German or any other language. Also, I couldn't possibly care less about money. I, unlike some people, am here to help the world, not exploit it.

[TreeWhisperer]

You're right. All of the varied indigenous American peoples had damn near exterminated themselves before Columbus got here. :rolleyes


CHECKMATE!!!

[TreeWhisperer]

Whooopppeee. You are poly sci major! That's makes you
a over educated idiot. I guess you would like tribes like
they have in the ME, right? And you are right, it is none of
my business what race you are, or is it, since you are so into keeping your
cultural heritage. That fact alone may affect my own
personal well being since you may object to me being just
a normal American person. That is I have no tribal
or heritage associations, just being an American. And you
may feel so threatened by this fact that you might insist
that I grant you special rights. Ooooops, we already do
that don't we?


Dude, you're making an ass out of yourself because I'm the whitest of the white. lol However, KILL WHITEY!!!

[TheSanityAnnex]

Assimilation is a bad thing? All of it or part of it? How much of it is bad? Are you thinking about how it looks in the real world or just regurgitating some pointy-headed abstract idea that some professor told you, and thinking you're so smart because you're a poli sci major?

Because the last time I was in a heavily Mexican-American neighbood, there weren't little green Nissan taxis running everywhere, and there wasn't a milkman coming at irregular hours honking his horn, and people's whole front yard wasn't a tile patio, and all the houses weren't made out of concrete, and the businesses didn't close down for three hours in the middle of the day, and there weren't clotheslines strewn everywhere. I did not see a single chicken.

I suppose Mexican-Americans need to give up the idea of treating women equally and embrace machismo, because otherwise they're assimilating too much. They should avoid learning to think too much and just learn rote memorization skills to be faithful to the educational system of their cultures.

I guess if South Texas Latinos want to reverse this assimilation trend, they need to give up things like Tejano music, so heavily influenced by German polka as it is. Hey, Southsiders, you can't root for the Cowboys anymore. Root for Monterrey's soccer team instead. No more grilling out on the driveway with your buddies. No more H-E-B; you need to make multiple trips to the panaderia and the carneceria and the verdura stand, because assimilation is a bad thing, according to some omniscient college student who is here to explain the whole world to us, including who is and who is not a bigot.
Funny you got no response from TreeHugger, I wonder why?

[xrayzebra]

Dude, you're making an ass out of yourself because I'm the whitest of the white. lol However, KILL WHITEY!!!

Dudette, you might want to take a reading comprehension class while
you are doing all that other stuff.


First, I'm a woman. Second, when I'm making laws in the Capitol, I'll think of you and your machine business. I couldn't possibly care less about money. I, unlike some people, am here to help the world, not exploit it.


Two questions: Are you making a threat and if you are not interested in
money and want to help the world, why would you go into politics?

And another question, just curious. Why do you post under two names
in the political forum. Some on these boards do, but as trolls. Is
TreeWhisper a troll? :rolleyes

One additional comment on your foray in politics, guess you will be
running as a dimm-o-crap..... :lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

What's her other name?

[xrayzebra]

^^turambar85

[TheSanityAnnex]

LOL.



I guess you could say...............................she's always got her own back.

[xrayzebra]

YOU reproduced....??? God help us. I hope your children aren't as ignorant and hateful as you. BTW, you better not ever speak to me that way again or I'll do my best to get your account deleted. You only say that if you're too stupid to come up with an actual argument, which you are.


You make more threats than most. Did he hurt your feelings? Poor baby,
I'm so sorry. You mess with the bull you gonna feel the horn sometimes.
That's a fact. Politics is not for sissies.

You gotta be a dimm-o-crap. You got all the symptoms.

[Extra Stout]

First, I'm a woman. Second, when I'm making laws in the Capitol, I'll think of you and your machine business. Funny, the guy from Germany speaks English... maybe cuz they aren't lazy asses like Americans. BTW, it really doesn't help your cause to bring up people from other countries that speak English when almost no one from here speaks German or any other language. Also, I couldn't possibly care less about money. I, unlike some people, am here to help the world, not exploit it.
How lovely that your solution to those who disagree with you is either to label them as a bigot or threaten to act against their interest as a clerk or whatever you become. How nice that your goal in life is to participate in the governance of a people you regard as a bunch of "lazy asses." Could you be any more on a power trip?

I'm sure all those folks in Austin are going to be sooooo impressed with the depth of real-world know-how and experience you got at the ivory tower, which has equipped you with your smug sense of intellectual and moral superiority. People will be lining up to kiss your ring and do business with you, because your attitude is exactly what gets things done in government. Kudos on your mad people skills.

[Extra Stout]

Oh, and on the subject of language, people in this country should be able to speak as many languages as they care to learn, as long as one of them is English. The problem is not bilingual families. Those folks are the cream. Those kids are going to develop more quickly and achieve more highly. The problem is families where even the U.S.-born children speak only dialect. That's not some brave principled resistance to assimilation; it's a self-imposed foreclosure against ever climbing out of the ranks of the working poor.

[TreeWhisperer]

Turambar85 is my fiancee....nice try though.

[xrayzebra]

For our poster "TreeWhisperer" the wannabe poltician. I would like to see your
comments on the comments of the former Governor of Colorado, Richard D. Lamm.

Former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States . He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

Here is how they do it," Lamm said:



"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country ." History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy." Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture . I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort . The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: "The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together." Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high. School."

"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money . I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' Instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity .' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them"

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow Profound silence followed. Finally he said,. " Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America. deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book.".

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength.".

================================================== =============
Now I'm sure you don't agree with a word he says. Just tell us why, not that
you don't agree. You may wonder about Canada, since you are in college and
more than likely don't have a clue: Quebec is their problem.

[TreeWhisperer]

How lovely that your solution to those who disagree with you is either to label them as a bigot or threaten to act against their interest as a clerk or whatever you become. How nice that your goal in life is to participate in the governance of a people you regard as a bunch of "lazy asses." Could you be any more on a power trip?

I'm sure all those folks in Austin are going to be sooooo impressed with the depth of real-world know-how and experience you got at the ivory tower, which has equipped you with your smug sense of intellectual and moral superiority. People will be lining up to kiss your ring and do business with you, because your attitude is exactly what gets things done in government. Kudos on your mad people skills.

I call them like I see them, and when people are completely intolerant of all people different that makes them bigots. And yes, our culture is very lazy. That's obvious to just about everybody I think. I'm pretty sure that I'm not on a power trip though... geez... kinda insecure aren't we? I have studied these topics in depth and I feel like I have good things to say about them. And hey man, I really don't care about people skills in an online forum. I'm just on here for practice, I really don't give a shit. lol

[TreeWhisperer]

You make more threats than most. Did he hurt your feelings? Poor baby,
I'm so sorry. You mess with the bull you gonna feel the horn sometimes.
That's a fact. Politics is not for sissies.

You gotta be a dimm-o-crap. You got all the symptoms.


Dude, I don't see any reason to cuss eachother out. If people just get on here to unload their frustrations, that's stupid. And honey, I'm no sissy. I do stand up for myself though, and if you can't deal with that then too bad for you. And you seriously must have an IQ of like 43 to actually use the word "dimm-o-crap." Just for the record though, I'm not a DEMOCRAT. See, notice spelling. Idiot.

[TreeWhisperer]

Dudette, you might want to take a reading comprehension class while
you are doing all that other stuff.




Two questions: Are you making a threat and if you are not interested in
money and want to help the world, why would you go into politics?

And another question, just curious. Why do you post under two names
in the political forum. Some on these boards do, but as trolls. Is
TreeWhisper a troll? :rolleyes

One additional comment on your foray in politics, guess you will be
running as a dimm-o-crap..... :lol

I'm pretty sure I'm not the one that needs reading comprehension since I'm not the one that assumed things that weren't even apparant in my posts. It's really sad that it's automatically thought that I'm not white just because I stand up for people that are different from myself. And I want to go into politics because it needs someone to help end corruption and make it a helpful thing again. As far as me supposedly posting under two names, it's just another instance of you making unwarranted assumptions. Again, anyone who actually says dimm-o-crap has an IQ of like 32. Nice job on making yourself look legally retarded.

[turambar85]

Spicoli, it would serve you well to realize that not everybody has free-range access to the retirement homes computer lab like X-ray. Some of us have jobs, families, and lives outside of the marvelous glowing box, so it might take some of us a little longer to reply to the dozens of messages certain people unleash each day.

[xrayzebra]

Dude, I don't see any reason to cuss eachother out. If people just get on here to unload their frustrations, that's stupid. And honey, I'm no sissy. I do stand up for myself though, and if you can't deal with that then too bad for you. And you seriously must have an IQ of like 43 to actually use the word "dimm-o-crap." Just for the record though, I'm not a DEMOCRAT. See, notice spelling. Idiot.

and then you said:

[QUOTE=TreeWhisperer]I'm pretty sure I'm not the one that needs reading comprehension since I'm not the one that assumed things that weren't even apparant in my posts. It's really sad that it's automatically thought that I'm not white just because I stand up for people that are different from myself. And I want to go into politics because it needs someone to help end corruption and make it a helpful thing again. As far as me supposedly posting under two names, it's just another instance of you making unwarranted assumptions. Again, anyone who actually says dimm-o-crap has an IQ of like 32. Nice job on making yourself look legally retarded.[QUOTE]


Lets see I went from an IQ of 42 to an IQ of 32 in two post. That's
moving. You gotta be a dimm-o-crap, don't like the word, well that is
what they are. Dimm and full of crap. Just like you. You really do need
to stay in this forum and practice. Calling people idiots doesn't make them so.
Oh, I know most of your instructors in poly-sci tell you that, but it don't
make it so. Matter of fact most of them are what I call dimm-o-craps or
progressives or liberals and believe in humanity and all that crap. That
is what they say, but it don't make it so. They only believe that they
have the right to judge what is right or wrong. Oh, I love the fact that
you are going to stop all that corruption. Are you stopping it in your
college? Like some folks are more equal than others? That their are
special scholarships for some folks and not others. That some folks get
pushed to the back of the line because they are male and white but
are more qualified than those who took their place. I thought not,
because you think that is the way it should be. Well let me tell you
a little something. That isn't the real world. No one out here in the
wild gets nothing for nothing except for the government handouts.
Well I have to go now, my time, here at the old folks home, at the
computer lab is about up. But rest assured I will keep you in my
thoughts. I feel so much more at east knowing youngn's like you
are going into politics to stop all that corruption. I am sure Ms.
Pelosi feels much the same and will most certainly welcome you
into the party. As soon as she gets through with her hearings on
the impeachment of Bush for corruption. Shsssh, don't tell her about
William Jefferson, they aren't speaking. I will be looking in the paper
for you demonstration about making all things equal at your college
for all students regardless of race or religion or nation of origin.

[turambar85]

Lets see I went from an IQ of 42 to an IQ of 32 in two post. That's
moving. You gotta be a dimm-o-crap, don't like the word, well that is
what they are. Dimm and full of crap. Just like you. You really do need
to stay in this forum and practice. Calling people idiots doesn't make them so.
Oh, I know most of your instructors in poly-sci tell you that, but it don't
make it so. Matter of fact most of them are what I call dimm-o-craps or
progressives or liberals and believe in humanity and all that crap. That
is what they say, but it don't make it so. They only believe that they
have the right to judge what is right or wrong. Oh, I love the fact that
you are going to stop all that corruption. Are you stopping it in your
college? Like some folks are more equal than others? That their are
special scholarships for some folks and not others. That some folks get
pushed to the back of the line because they are male and white but
are more qualified than those who took their place. I thought not,
because you think that is the way it should be. Well let me tell you
a little something. That isn't the real world. No one out here in the
wild gets nothing for nothing except for the government handouts.
Well I have to go now, my time, here at the old folks home, at the
computer lab is about up. But rest assured I will keep you in my
thoughts. I feel so much more at east knowing youngn's like you
are going into politics to stop all that corruption. I am sure Ms.
Pelosi feels much the same and will most certainly welcome you
into the party. As soon as she gets through with her hearings on
the impeachment of Bush for corruption. Shsssh, don't tell her about
William Jefferson, they aren't speaking. I will be looking in the paper
for you demonstration about making all things equal at your college
for all students regardless of race or religion or nation of origin.[/QUOTE]

Well, Xray, you should really stop making assumptions about people because, as in the past, it can come back and smack you right on the ass. For starters, my fiancee is a strong opponent of affirmative action and quotas of any sort. Also, is it a bad thing to want to go into politics? No. Is it a bad thing to want to do your job well? No. And is it a bad thing to want to stay morally clean? No. So why is it laughable to want to go into politics with the goal of helping people. It is simply pathetic that you sit around and bash somebody for wanting to do that, and it would be best if you just didn't open your mouth unless you could think of something factual or relevant because you make an ass of yourself. You have thought she was a foreigner, a male, a liberal, and proponent of affirmative action, when none are true. It is sad. I think that it is a noble goal, and unless you know a person it is best to stick to making claims which you have some hope of backing up one way or another. And as for your last comment, my fiancee(the tree-hugger) and I actually did a report in speech class on the negative effects of affirmative action, and actually had some problems with our left-ish professor afterwards. Here are a few things you should know about Christine, not that you have any true right or claim to this knowledge, I just think it will help make sure that you no longer make a fool of yourself with such baseless claims. She is a moderate. She, though a woman, thinks that Hillary Clinton becoming president would ruin America. She is anti-abortion. She is anti-affirmative action. She voted Bush in 2004...but hates herself for putting the monster in office. She is very white, to reiterate. She is a she. She is not on any special scholorships, only the ones for low-income students and one for her great highschool G.P.A. She has fought and struggled hard to get where she is, and has recieved none of the handouts you love to mention. Those are just a few things which will help you in the future. Read them carefully, and then consider them before making any other claims. Good later

[turambar85]

Anyway, all things being as they are, I believe it is about time we got back to true political debate and off of the back and forth personal attacks and childish arguing. This is a political forum and it would be nice to start talking politics again.

[TreeWhisperer]

and then you said:

[QUOTE=TreeWhisperer]I'm pretty sure I'm not the one that needs reading comprehension since I'm not the one that assumed things that weren't even apparant in my posts. It's really sad that it's automatically thought that I'm not white just because I stand up for people that are different from myself. And I want to go into politics because it needs someone to help end corruption and make it a helpful thing again. As far as me supposedly posting under two names, it's just another instance of you making unwarranted assumptions. Again, anyone who actually says dimm-o-crap has an IQ of like 32. Nice job on making yourself look legally retarded.[QUOTE]


Lets see I went from an IQ of 42 to an IQ of 32 in two post. That's
moving. You gotta be a dimm-o-crap, don't like the word, well that is
what they are. Dimm and full of crap. Just like you. You really do need
to stay in this forum and practice. Calling people idiots doesn't make them so.
Oh, I know most of your instructors in poly-sci tell you that, but it don't
make it so. Matter of fact most of them are what I call dimm-o-craps or
progressives or liberals and believe in humanity and all that crap. That
is what they say, but it don't make it so. They only believe that they
have the right to judge what is right or wrong. Oh, I love the fact that
you are going to stop all that corruption. Are you stopping it in your
college? Like some folks are more equal than others? That their are
special scholarships for some folks and not others. That some folks get
pushed to the back of the line because they are male and white but
are more qualified than those who took their place. I thought not,
because you think that is the way it should be. Well let me tell you
a little something. That isn't the real world. No one out here in the
wild gets nothing for nothing except for the government handouts.
Well I have to go now, my time, here at the old folks home, at the
computer lab is about up. But rest assured I will keep you in my
thoughts. I feel so much more at east knowing youngn's like you
are going into politics to stop all that corruption. I am sure Ms.
Pelosi feels much the same and will most certainly welcome you
into the party. As soon as she gets through with her hearings on
the impeachment of Bush for corruption. Shsssh, don't tell her about
William Jefferson, they aren't speaking. I will be looking in the paper
for you demonstration about making all things equal at your college
for all students regardless of race or religion or nation of origin.

Yeeeeah... I think my wonderful fiance said pretty much everything I would have liked to say, so I'm officially not wasting a second more of my time on you. It's been.... interesting. BTW, it isn't my fault your IQ drops by the minute. In fact, I'm ignoring you from now on because I'm afraid that, just by reading your statements, mine will also drop. Sooo... adios!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Funny, the guy from Germany speaks English... maybe cuz they aren't lazy asses like Americans.

No, the guy from Germany speaks English because anyone around the world in any country that gets an international business degree learns English because it is considered the language of the business world. I'm sorry this is lost on you.

It doesn't have anything to do with Amerikans being lazy, it has to do with the rest of the world recognizing what country makes the world turn economically speaking and being smart about their educational process.


BTW, it really doesn't help your cause to bring up people from other countries that speak English when almost no one from here speaks German or any other language.

I learned Russian in college, so what's your point exactly? Maybe when you get out from whatever ignorant ass rock you're living under right now and get a job in the real world, you'll recognize what some of us are preaching - english is the language of the world economy, and no amount of short-sighted, ignorant grand standing from you will change that fact.

[turambar85]

Aggie, I think you are missing the point juuuuust a little bit. I don't believe that she is trying to say that people learn English just for their benefit, or that everybody here must learn another language as a polite gesture to the other nations. It seems that she is saying that people need to calm down and not get so upset about the prospect of another language creeping into mainstream America. English will remain the most common language, but having another language which most people speak would not be the end of the world as we know it. And good lord thats a little high and mighty....America is not the economic capital of the world anymore, or at least not the same way it was in the past. Other nations, especially in Asia, are swiftly catching up...and as I have heard, China has actually, through trade and loans, obtained more U.S currency than the United States actually has...and if they were to flood the market with this said currency we would be in a state worse than the great depression. But this is not the point. Also, shut the fuck up. She never said one fucking word to you...so it would be wonderful if you would wait to be insulted to start throwing insults around. Good lord grow the hell up. English may seem to be the language of the world economy, but this perch is placed very precariously on a very iffy mountain. Everything right now is on the tip of a knife, and America hasa great chance of being replaced by any number of countries over the next decade due to either internal problems and/or blowback from any number of things we have done in the international community, or from another country, such as China, simply maintaining its growth. English is not that important in the future, and the new world order isn't led by 1 superpower, and if it is, it won't be America. Take the time to read the entire list of posts if it helps you get a better understanding of the contextual basis of the statements which you are criticizing, as well as to get a better grasp on the beliefs and outlook of the person you are insulting. Flying into a random conversation with your fists in the air doesn't usually make you look good, I promise.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol I have to 'wait to be insulted' to respond to her stupidity? She singled out a post that was made in response to me. Further, it's a fucking discussion board. People are allowed to respond to anything in the thread.

Finally, one of the great things about the English language is paragraphs. I hear you don't even have to speak good English to use them.


English is not that important in the future, and the new world order isn't led by 1 superpower, and if it is, it won't be America. Take the time to read the entire list of posts if it helps you get a better understanding of the contextual basis of the statements which you are criticizing, as well as to get a better grasp on the beliefs and outlook of the person you are insulting.

Look, I'm sorry you're a stupid bitch. In case you missed it, I work out in the real world, and deal with international (that means someone outside of Mexico) clients.

I'm telling you what's going on in the real world, as opposed to your economics class down at SAC or ACC or wherever the fuck you think you're getting all this insight from.

I read every single post in this thread before I posted back on page 2. I understand perfectly well the ignorant beliefs and outlook of the person I 'insulted.'

I find it comical that you consider my response an insult. It's not an insult. It's a fact based on observation of the real business world of which I'm apart of.

Let me ask you, what are your credentials? Working in international business? Got clients in multiple countries? Talk with clients in multiple countries?

From what I've seen so far there's one person on this thread who is trying to come off with her ivory tower-esque 'I'm going to change the world when I get to make laws' bullshit.

I'm here to tell her, you, and every other college retread that thinks they know it all that you guys don't know shit.

I don't know it all either, but I can promise unless you're a part of a company doing a quarter of a billion dollars business a year, a significant portion of which is international, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about and that I do know more than you.

How's that for insight?

[xrayzebra]

^^Now I wonder why IQ she is going to assign to you. I mean, like, after all
you only know what you are talking about in "real" terms. And she is such
a "moderate" I'm sure she must know all the answers. Her boyfriend will more
than likely tell you what she thinks. I'm not sure you knows how. Or so it seems
by the post he makes for her. Well here comes the attendant, guess my time
is up on the computer.....LOL Great post Aggie.

[turambar85]

Well...I don't exactly know what to say. I guess I will start by saying that single sentences no more constitute as paragraphs that the clunky behemoth which I threw onto the board. Then I guess that is all I can think of to say because it is hard to argue with somebody who can't/won't say anything to refute what you have to say other than "I have been in the real world" and "unless you work for a billion dollar company I know more." Well, I suppose you need to take more time off of that work to figure out how to argue in the real world. Saying that I have seen it and you haven't is like saying "you're young, you just can't understand."

Jesus, say something to actually counter the arguments given. Maybe that company you work for can get you a spreadsheet or a manual on how to go point by point, or to use rational logic in your defense. If not, perhaps you can come down to the SAC or ACC and take some kinda class...maybe I can find a good tutor. And don't think I'm doing it out of my own kindness, I just think it would make things on here a little more interesting to get rid of one more person who uses abstract thoughts and principles or cliche responses to make an argument.

I don't believe you have said one thing that somebody could actually argue, or that you could back up with hard facts. Hows that for insight?

[turambar85]

Xray...what the hell are you talking about. That post doesn't make one bit of bloody sense. For the love of God, would people please make arguments based on fact or reasoning rather than stupid judgement calls based on what they think that can extrapolate from a few random posts. And I did not make any posts for her because she needed me to, she could easily run the floor with the likes or you, I did so because she was busy with her grandparents and I will not have ignorant people like spicoli assuming that her lack of response is because the pathetic excuse for debate offered on this forum is too much for her to handle.

[TreeWhisperer]

:lol I have to 'wait to be insulted' to respond to her stupidity? She singled out a post that was made in response to me. Further, it's a fucking discussion board. People are allowed to respond to anything in the thread.

Finally, one of the great things about the English language is paragraphs. I hear you don't even have to speak good English to use them.



Look, I'm sorry you're a stupid bitch. In case you missed it, I work out in the real world, and deal with international (that means someone outside of Mexico) clients.

I'm telling you what's going on in the real world, as opposed to your economics class down at SAC or ACC or wherever the fuck you think you're getting all this insight from.

I read every single post in this thread before I posted back on page 2. I understand perfectly well the ignorant beliefs and outlook of the person I 'insulted.'

I find it comical that you consider my response an insult. It's not an insult. It's a fact based on observation of the real business world of which I'm apart of.

Let me ask you, what are your credentials? Working in international business? Got clients in multiple countries? Talk with clients in multiple countries?

From what I've seen so far there's one person on this thread who is trying to come off with her ivory tower-esque 'I'm going to change the world when I get to make laws' bullshit.

I'm here to tell her, you, and every other college retread that thinks they know it all that you guys don't know shit.

I don't know it all either, but I can promise unless you're a part of a company doing a quarter of a billion dollars business a year, a significant portion of which is international, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about and that I do know more than you.

How's that for insight?

It's really sad how narrowminded you are. He is coming from a global well-being view, you are coming from a business view. Your so-called "credentials" do not make you special. Big whooo you have a job. Here's a cookie! We spend our time trying to understand the world as a whole, which you obviously can't do. We also spend our time on philosophy and expanding our views as a whole. Also, don't bother posting if all you have to offer is name-calling, insults, and ignorant narrow-mindedness.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, I suppose you need to take more time off of that work to figure out how to argue in the real world. Saying that I have seen it and you haven't is like saying "you're young, you just can't understand."

I can argue in real world just fine. Every day I pick up the phone, anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars are on the line based on what I have to say. Judging by the raise and bigger office I just got, I'd like to think I'm doing alright :lol


Jesus, say something to actually counter the arguments given. Maybe that company you work for can get you a spreadsheet or a manual on how to go point by point, or to use rational logic in your defense.

Look, I'm really sorry you're such a moron. I thought I did a great job countering the ivory tower "America isn't important, English isn't important in the business world" bullshit.

My company did a little north of $120 million in international business last year. And every business deal was done in English, from the phone calls to the in-person sales pitches to the conference calls to the language on the little pieces of paper us big kids call a contract.

What part of that isn't a counter to your "English isn't important because my stupid ass says so" bullshit?



I just think it would make things on here a little more interesting to get rid of one more person who uses abstract thoughts and principles or cliche responses to make an argument.

Abstract thoughts? I'm putting my company's bottom line down. That's a little more than abstract. You do know the meaning of abstract, right? And what's cliche about my responses?

My company deals with politicians and government entities, from your local county government here in good ol' Texas all the way on up to some folks as far away as Moscow, Brisbaine, Paris, London, and Jakarta. If those are too abstract for you, I hear google maps can help you out.


I don't believe you have said one thing that somebody could actually argue, or that you could back up with hard facts. Hows that for insight?

Look, everything I have stated are *facts*. I know it sucks for you, because you're right - you can't argue those.

Anyway, looking forward to more of your cold, hard "English isn't important because my SAC professor from Mexico said so" drivel.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's really sad how narrowminded you are. He is coming from a global well-being view, you are coming from a business view. Your so-called "credentials" do not make you special. Big whooo you have a job.


Again, what are your credentials? Where is this 'global' view coming from? I've seen my company do business in 14 countries, 15 if you call Canada a global country :lol What are you basing your observations on? Econ class? The Express-News. Gimme some facts damnit, instead if your pissant drivel about English not being important for the future of the world.

If English isn't important for the future, the world economy is in a world of hurt because every university from the shores of the Atlantic in Europe all the way to the shores of the Pacific in Russia are teaching English as a second language because of the world economy. Their decisions in both primary and secondary institutions of higher learning would seem to contradict your 'expertise' in this area.


Here's a cookie!

Heed your own advice. :rolleyes


Also, don't bother posting if all you have to offer is name-calling, insults, and ignorant narrow-mindedness.



We spend our time trying to understand the world as a whole, which you obviously can't do.

I obviously can't do? I graduated with a degree in world history. I had minors in math and international studies, with areas of expertise in Russian, Islam, and eastern Europe.

Wanna try again?


We also spend our time on philosophy and expanding our views as a whole.

Coulda fooled me. You seem to have taken a 'my view is the only view that matters, the rest of you are just ignorant' stance in this thread. It's time for YOU to expand your views.

I can at least understand where you're coming from, I'm just telling you that what's going on in the real world doesn't jive with your reality.

And as for the whole 'it's just the business world that feels the way you do' thing, I got news for you - the business world IS what makes this world go around. The rest is secondary.

But if that's not enough, I'll trust what a couple of close friends from college had to say, and they didn't come from the business world.

One was a grad student from outside of Paris, France, and my roommate for a year. Another was my TA for two of the four semesters of Russian language that I took at A&M (and she grew up in what was Czechoslavakia).

Both of their 'world views' jive what I've detailed in this thread from my experiences from the business world. And hopefully their opinions count for something - the Frenchman knew English, French, and German, the Russian girl knew English, Russian, and broken Korean.

But what the fuck do they know, we've got some UTSA business majors here telling us that we're all wrong :lol

[Extra Stout]

America is not the economic capital of the world anymore, or at least not the same way it was in the past.
False.


Other nations, especially in Asia, are swiftly catching up...and as I have heard, China has actually, through trade and loans, obtained more U.S currency than the United States actually has...and if they were to flood the market with this said currency we would be in a state worse than the great depression.
As would they.


English may seem to be the language of the world economy, but this perch is placed very precariously on a very iffy mountain. Everything right now is on the tip of a knife, and America hasa great chance of being replaced by any number of countries over the next decade due to either internal problems and/or blowback from any number of things we have done in the international community, or from another country, such as China, simply maintaining its growth.
The United States could disappear tomorrow, and English would remain the language of international business. It will take a long time for another "lingua franca" to come into circulation.


English is not that important in the future,
Wow. I'm glad you 21-year-olds are around to explain the world to us.

[Extra Stout]

AH, you need to understand that what you experience in the real world doesn't carry near as much weight as what a professor at the University of Tennessee says during a seminar class. They are all-knowing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

English may seem to be the language of the world economy, but this perch is placed very precariously on a very iffy mountain. Everything right now is on the tip of a knife, and America hasa great chance of being replaced by any number of countries over the next decade due to either internal problems and/or blowback from any number of things we have done in the international community, or from another country, such as China, simply maintaining its growth.

I missed this earlier. Every country in Europe teaches English as a second language at their universities. The majority of schools in Europe and the near East also teach english in grade school so they are ready when they get to college.

In fact, a lot of students in Europe speak English better than kids here who get the ebonics version or are stuck in a home full of spanish speaking adults and never learn the language properly.


AH, you need to understand that what you experience in the real world doesn't carry near as much weight as what a professor at the University of Tennessee says during a seminar class. They are all-knowing.

Good point, theory obviously trumps experience and observation.

[Extra Stout]

I missed this earlier. Every country in Europe teaches English as a second language at their universities. The majority of schools in Europe and the near East also teach english in grade school so they are ready when they get to college.

In fact, a lot of students in Europe speak English better than kids here who get the ebonics version or are stuck in a home full of spanish speaking adults and never learn the language properly.
They don't learn English only because the U.S. is the current economic power. They learn English because the EU needs some kind of common language, and linguistically English wins on the merits -- it relates both to Germanic and Romance languages, with the precision and flexibility of the former, and the verbal richness of the latter.

It is easy for a German or a Swede to learn English. The grammar is a simplified form of their native tongues. The basic vocabulary is familiar. A Frenchman or a Spaniard has to work harder to learn the grammar and non-phonetic spelling, but still, English is loaded with Romance cognates. It's the best available compromise language. The Slavs are kind of screwed, but they're late to the party anyway.

I doubt they'll be switching to Mandarin Chinese anytime soon.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Oh, I'm sure if our friends Turambar and TreeWhisperer think everyone's going to switch to Chinese, Latin, or Pig Latin, anything but English :lol

[scott]

My company did a little north of $120 million in international business last year. And every business deal was done in English, from the phone calls to the in-person sales pitches to the conference calls to the language on the little pieces of paper us big kids call a contract.

My company did about $100 billion in international business last year, and deals were done in 10+ languages. My dick is bigger than your dick.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh my. You guys are reaching for why English is taught in Europe. There's one reason, and its the United States.

All that linguistics relationship crap is bullshit.

[scott]

And now a serious question. What, exactly, does make english the official language solve?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

My company did about $100 billion in international business last year, and deals were done in 10+ languages. My dick is bigger than your dick.

Good for you and your company. Doesn't change the fact that universities in Europe and elsewhere teach english to their business students hoping to be part of the world economy.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm going to make my own language, and when I rule the world you will all speak it. Bitches.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol Nice Manny. Manglish, coming to a language classroom near you.

[xrayzebra]

Aggie, you may have overloaded their brain.

100 Billion scott? Wow, but how does that make your dick bigger. You deal in
porno goods and sevices? And Manny wants to know if your hiring. :lol

[Extra Stout]

And now a serious question. What, exactly, does make english the official language solve?
It would serve absolutely no purpose that I can think of.

[scott]

It would serve absolutely no purpose that I can think of.

Damn, you busted my late night typo! For the sake of comedy, I won't dare edit it.

Do you have a serious answer?

[Extra Stout]

Damn, you busted my late night typo! For the sake of comedy, I won't dare edit it.

Do you have a serious answer?
It would serve no purpose of which I can think. Seriously.

Some people for whatever reason are worried that they someday will find themselves in their own country unable to communicate, because the dominant language has changed. While I don't believe that fear to be rational, neither do I find such people to be bigots.

[scott]

Okay, gotcha. I generally agree. As AHF has pointed out, English is the dominant language of the business world - and it will be so regardless of whatever silly laws we have.

[MannyIsGod]

Aggie, you may have overloaded their brain.

100 Billion scott? Wow, but how does that make your dick bigger. You deal in
porno goods and sevices? And Manny wants to know if your hiring. :lolI've worked for Scotts company in the past. I have no desire to return.

[Nbadan]

And now a serious question. What, exactly, does make english the official language solve?

It's about printing voting ballots and welfare/medicare applications in English.

[DarkReign]

"The Collective" has chosen not to respond to coherent thought and verbal ownage.

See, when things dont fit inside their ideal world of possible Utopia, somehow, it overloads their processor.

It just fails them completely that anyone would actually disagree with their logic! Prepostorous!


BTW, you better not ever speak to me that way again or I'll do my best to get your account deleted.

Go ahead, douche-bag. Give it a whirl.

[turambar85]

That might be, dark, because the logical reasonable argument developed onto a tall-tale about who has the biggest dick, and thats an argument that I don't need to enter to help my self-esteem. I'm not a 45 year old housewife, I have better things to do that to sit around and have idle-conversation and bicker back and forth all day. If a goo argument is in the works, I will join...not for your benefit, so that you will not think that I'm afraid, or that I don't know what to say because you don't mean shit to me. I will come and argue because I enjoy it, and the moment it loses my interest and becomes unenjoyable, I'm gone.

[DarkReign]

That might be, dark, because the logical reasonable argument developed onto a tall-tale about who has the biggest dick, and thats an argument that I don't need to enter to help my self-esteem. I'm not a 45 year old housewife, I have better things to do that to sit around and have idle-conversation and bicker back and forth all day. If a goo argument is in the works, I will join...not for your benefit, so that you will not think that I'm afraid, or that I don't know what to say because you don't mean shit to me. I will come and argue because I enjoy it, and the moment it loses my interest and becomes unenjoyable, I'm gone.

Congratulations on maturity! Dont start shit, wont be shit, dig?

BTW, you never 'argued' anything, you only declared.

Regardless, maybe next time you wont judge people 3 posts into a thread. Everyone that has posted in this thread have had this argument before. You came in half-cocked and low on ammo.

[xrayzebra]

^^oh boy, you are asking for it DR. Duck.

[Phenomanul]

I missed this earlier. Every country in Europe teaches English as a second language at their universities. The majority of schools in Europe and the near East also teach english in grade school so they are ready when they get to college.

In fact, a lot of students in Europe speak English better than kids here who get the ebonics version or are stuck in a home full of spanish speaking adults and never learn the language properly.



Good point, theory obviously trumps experience and observation.


I resent eso AHF!!!
:lol

In all honesty, I learned English at school... and refined my Spanish at home...
The french and japanese classes are now all but a faint memory...

As an aside, many people who claim to know Spanish as part of their heritage don't even speak it well enough to claim the language as their own...

[Guru of Nothing]

AH, you need to understand that what you experience in the real world doesn't carry near as much weight as what a professor at the University of Tennessee says during a seminar class. They are all-knowing.

I like AHF, really; but his penchant to boost his personal sense of patriotism based upon vicarious emotions rooted in the military service of his relatives disappoints me; and I question your liberal waxing of AHF's life experiences as "real."

The 12=pack is empty - you are on your own.

[2centsworth]

And now a serious question. What, exactly, does make english the official language solve?
Does speaking english increase someones chances of economic success?

[Spurodamus]

http://members.aol.com/blackrose3000/images/negrodamus.jpg

So hispanics suck at math because English isn't the official language of the United States. In other news, reading through this thread whole is harmful to your intelligence.

[DarkReign]

Does speaking english increase someones chances of economic success?

Hmmm.....Domestically in America, I would venture a guess...yes.

Internationally anywhere...most definately.

Domestically in some other country, I would think no.

Total guesses on my part.

[scott]

Does speaking english increase someones chances of economic success?

2cents, I certainly understand the benefits of speaking English - and think everyone in this country should speak English. I don't see how making English a "national language" makes it happen though.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I like AHF, really; but his penchant to boost his personal sense of patriotism based upon vicarious emotions rooted in the military service of his relatives disappoints me; and I question your liberal waxing of AHF's life experiences as "real."

Vicarious emotions? WTF? I'm proud to be an American, irrespective of the careers of my dad and siblings. I've been lucky enough to visit several countries outside our own, and a lot of the people who bitch about every little thing here in this country don't realize how good they have it.

[Guru of Nothing]

Vicarious emotions? WTF? I'm proud to be an American, irrespective of the careers of my dad and siblings. I've been lucky enough to visit several countries outside our own, and a lot of the people who bitch about every little thing here in this country don't realize how good they have it.

Apologies, I was speaking from the (beer) gut.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's cool Guru. Like I said, I watch people bitch about government handouts, etc. here in this country...

Some of those piss and moaners need to go to places like Honduras, Belize, and the Bahamas and get a reality check.

[2centsworth]

2cents, I certainly understand the benefits of speaking English - and think everyone in this country should speak English. I don't see how making English a "national language" makes it happen though.
I'm not sure everyone understands the benefits of speaking English as you and I do. Maybe making it a national language reinforces the importance? I don't think making it a national language will hurt.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

At least up here in Dallas, there seems to be a movement afoot to embrace a multilingual society. I.e., it's okay not to learn english if you know Spanish.

At least on a cursory level, it seems to me the whole 'english as the national language' thing would nip all this LULAC crap in the bud.

[xrayzebra]

Okay, why do I have to press one on the telephone when I want
to hear English spoken?

[xrayzebra]

A little off the thread but I found this little article in this mornings
paper and I thought it interesting on how many languages it was
printed in.

The New York Times
Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By

May 31, 2006
A Promise for Immigrants Who Seek Hospital Care
By TONI WHITT

The city's Health and Hospitals Corporation and the mayor's office said yesterday that they were taking aggressive steps to reassure immigrants that no one will question their status when they seek care at New York City's public hospitals.

In a letter distributed in 11 languages, the corporation's president, Alan D. Aviles, promises city residents that public hospital employees will "keep confidential all information regarding your immigration status." If they do not, Mr. Aviles wrote, they may lose their jobs. The agency and the Mayor's Office of Immigrant Affairs is sending out the letters because advocacy groups have been reporting that many undocumented immigrants are afraid of going to hospitals because they think that when they are asked for personal and financial information, hospital workers will realize they are in the country illegally and report them.

Mr. Aviles cited the case of a mother of three who arrived in New York from Mexico eight months ago and was afraid to seek treatment for cervical cancer. After an advocacy group intervened on her behalf, the woman was scheduled for treatment at one of the city's hospitals. Another immigrant, a construction worker, broke his foot and instead of going to the hospital, went to a friend of a friend — "a so-called expert" — for treatment, Mr. Aviles said.

Dr. Warren Seigel, chairman of the department of pediatrics at Coney Island Hospital, has had patients ask to meet him in a private office, rather than at the hospital.

"It's part and parcel of providing medical care," Mr. Aviles said. "There has to be a system of trust between health care providers and the patients."

To ensure that the city's public hospitals are able to build and keep that trust, Mr. Aviles sent a letter to all 39,000 employees at the agency reminding them of the confidentiality policy. In addition he plans to go on rounds with the staff for the next month to make sure that all employees know the policy and that they serve as ambassadors for the public hospitals.

"It's a public health issue," Mr. Aviles said. "It's foolish for us not to do this."

He said that if fear kept immigrants away, "all the work we have done to improve the health of our communities — getting more children vaccinated, increasing prenatal care, reducing teen pregnancy, managing diabetes and reducing the spread of H.I.V./AIDS — could potentially come undone."

Adam Gurvitch, director of health advocacy for the New York Immigrant Coalition, an umbrella group for more than 150 immigrant organizations, said that because the national immigration debate was causing so much confusion, his group was calling for the hospital industry, both public and private, to remind employees and patients that personal information is confidential and is not shared with government agencies.

Despite the continuing disagreements over immigration policy, "it's really important for people to understand that nothing has changed," Mr. Gurvitch said. "Health care remains a right for all people in America, for all immigrants, regardless of immigration status."

The policy is in line with Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg's executive order that generally forbids city agencies from inquiring about or disclosing the immigration status of New Yorkers who come into contact with city government. Mr. Bloomberg said yesterday that he was concerned about the studies that show undocumented immigrants afraid of going to a hospital.

Mr. Bloomberg again criticized the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. "All of this is a problem because 20 years ago Congress did not do what they were supposed to do: address the problem of people coming into this country illegally," he said.

The immigration debate aside, Guillermo Linares, commissioner for the Office of Immigrant Affairs, said that the campaign to make sure immigrants received proper health care benefited the city. "A healthy New Yorker keeps a healthy city, and that's why we're here," he said.

Sewell Chan contributed reporting for this article.

===========================================

I wonder how many languages it was sent out in to the 39,000
employess?

[turambar85]

Xray, having to press 1 should be a good thing. Think about it, there should be options to hear other languages, thats just common decency, especially when you consider a language is a learning process, so newbies can't be expected to deal with ignorant operators in a language in which they have little skill. Now, if we have to have other options we have 2 choices, have english be 1 of the buttons, or you just stay on the line after the other options to have English spoken. If you have to stay on the line for that you have to sit through a long line or boring b.s in 10 languages you don't understand. If English is a button option you should be glad its 1st, it saves you time. There is no better option, so be glad you have to press 1.

[xrayzebra]

^^Yep, in your opinion it is okay. How you think that, I don't know.
I really don't care about sparing anyone's feelings. Sorry, that is
just the way I am. When I have been in other countries, which I have
been in many, they damn sure didn't bend over backwards to spare
my feelings. Funny thing about that, I didn't feel offended. After
all it was their country and I felt lucky if I could find someone
who could speak my language, I really didn't expect it. I didn't
feel it was their obligation to speak my language. Funny story.
I was in Turkey some years ago and was trying to get directions
to a certain place, there was three people involved in the conversation. A Turk who spoke French, a French speaking person
who also spoke English and between us I got to where I wanted to
go. We have no obligation to anyone to speak their language.
Did you read the little article I posted. 11 languages. Do you
really want to live in a country where no one understands no one
else. You know we Americans have a culture also, and that is not
wrong. Do we have to sacrifice our culture to satisfy others?

[DarkReign]

^^Yep, in your opinion it is okay. How you think that, I don't know.
I really don't care about sparing anyone's feelings. Sorry, that is
just the way I am. When I have been in other countries, which I have
been in many, they damn sure didn't bend over backwards to spare
my feelings. Funny thing about that, I didn't feel offended. After
all it was their country and I felt lucky if I could find someone
who could speak my language, I really didn't expect it. I didn't
feel it was their obligation to speak my language. Funny story.
I was in Turkey some years ago and was trying to get directions
to a certain place, there was three people involved in the conversation. A Turk who spoke French, a French speaking person
who also spoke English and between us I got to where I wanted to
go. We have no obligation to anyone to speak their language.
Did you read the little article I posted. 11 languages. Do you
really want to live in a country where no one understands no one
else. You know we Americans have a culture also, and that is not
wrong. Do we have to sacrifice our culture to satisfy others?

Taking this post in and of itself

:tu :tu

[Phenomanul]

^^Yep, in your opinion it is okay. How you think that, I don't know.
I really don't care about sparing anyone's feelings. Sorry, that is
just the way I am. When I have been in other countries, which I have
been in many, they damn sure didn't bend over backwards to spare
my feelings. Funny thing about that, I didn't feel offended. After
all it was their country and I felt lucky if I could find someone
who could speak my language, I really didn't expect it. I didn't
feel it was their obligation to speak my language. Funny story.
I was in Turkey some years ago and was trying to get directions
to a certain place, there was three people involved in the conversation. A Turk who spoke French, a French speaking person
who also spoke English and between us I got to where I wanted to
go. We have no obligation to anyone to speak their language.
Did you read the little article I posted. 11 languages. Do you
really want to live in a country where no one understands no one
else. You know we Americans have a culture also, and that is not
wrong. Do we have to sacrifice our culture to satisfy others?


Funny, I always thought the American culture was considered the 'melting-pot' culture...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Funny, I always thought the American culture was considered the 'melting-pot' culture...

Funny, all the people in this country that contributed to that 'melting pot' had no problem picking up the English language.

[xrayzebra]

Wonder why he doesn't understand the term: "melting pot". Like
all of us came together and made an American culture.
Has he ever done any cooking. I know he wont understand what I
am saying. But I tried.

[Guru of Nothing]

Okay, why do I have to press one on the telephone when I want
to hear English spoken?

'cause Hitler lost. Duh!

[Phenomanul]

Funny, all the people in this country that contributed to that 'melting pot' had no problem picking up the English language.

Cite the statistics.... I've never heard of anyone conducting this study on a grand scale... but even if I agreed with you, or even when/if the statistics agreed with your notion... you can't force someone to pick up a language immediately especially if they can get by without it while they try and learn it...

Did you consider that maybe some people are just too old to try and pick up a new language... Are you going to force them to learn it???

As an aside... It's funny that we can't get our own youth to pick up the language properly... and yet they are given the opportunity to study it for at least 12 years...

[Phenomanul]

Wonder why he doesn't understand the term: "melting pot". Like
all of us came together and made an American culture.
Has he ever done any cooking. I know he wont understand what I
am saying. But I tried.


Don't presume to lecture me.

I embody the term.... Born in Mexico, raised American... perfectly fluent in both languages... of American culture with Mexican heritage... and proud of it...

I've conducted business in Mexico, Canada, Europe, Asia, South America, and the Middle East... people who don't get around might not understand... but the World doesn't revolve around the US -- even if it is the most powerful country on earth...

[Guru of Nothing]

Don't presume to lecture me.

I embody the term.... Born in Mexico, raised American... perfectly fluent in both languages... of American culture with Mexican heritage... and proud of it...

I've conducted business in Mexico, Canada, Europe, Asia, South America, and the Middle East... people who don't get around might not understand... but the World doesn't revolve around the US -- even if it is the most powerful country on earth...

What about Texas?

[TreeWhisperer]

"The Collective" has chosen not to respond to coherent thought and verbal ownage.

See, when things dont fit inside their ideal world of possible Utopia, somehow, it overloads their processor.

It just fails them completely that anyone would actually disagree with their logic! Prepostorous!



Go ahead, douche-bag. Give it a whirl.


Uh oh, somebody's low IQ is showing again... But seriously, you need to learn how to treat other people.

[DarkReign]

Uh oh, somebody's low IQ is showing again... But seriously, you need to learn how to treat other people.

I am dealing with you as I would any person so absorbed with their own opinion and world view. Many times in this very forum, I have had my mind changed, my opinion sculpted, and my view on issues evolve.

Because I listen. Dont get me wrong, some shit is ludicrous. But, even when something completely contradicts my most sacred beliefs, I still read it and try to understand it.

I read and understood what you were implying. Youre a holier-than-thou, neo-liberal, overly educated, Utopian nutjob.

Good day sir....mam....collective...whatever.

[TheSanityAnnex]

English sucks. Who needs it?












Oh yeah. The NBA for one. Hmmm...........maybe Shakira.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Cite the statistics.... I've never heard of anyone conducting this study on a grand scale... but even if I agreed with you, or even when/if the statistics agreed with your notion...

What statistics? Oh wait, when the Framers of the Constitution were doing their thing they put in a long lost clause saying that we should all be fucking bilingual to make the Spanish happy. :rolleyes

The language issue didn't become an issue until the last 3 years when some fringe LULAC types started campaigning for legislation to the effect of spanish and english both being the languages of America.

Don't be pissed when the other 90% of this country says fuck that, if we're going to have a national language, let's make it english.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And another thing. You go to countries in the Caribbean, and everyone speaks english. Why? Because of all the english speaking tourists that come there, and tourism is their economy.

Yet here in this country, the majority is supposed to fucking adapt and learn Spanish so we can 'get by' in our own country. That's horseshit. Either adapt to the culture of America, or go home.

[Phenomanul]

What statistics? Oh wait, when the Framers of the Constitution were doing their thing they put in a long lost clause saying that we should all be fucking bilingual to make the Spanish happy. :rolleyes

The language issue didn't become an issue until the last 3 years when some fringe LULAC types started campaigning for legislation to the effect of spanish and english both being the languages of America.

Don't be pissed when the other 90% of this country says fuck that, if we're going to have a national language, let's make it english.


Don't have a cow dude...

The language has been an issue since the US annexed what used to be part of Mexico...

[TheSanityAnnex]

Don't have a cow dude...

The language has been an issue since the US annexed what used to be part of Mexico...
Wasn't it purchased rather than annexed?

[Phenomanul]

And another thing. You go to countries in the Caribbean, and everyone speaks english. Why? Because of all the english speaking tourists that come there, and tourism is their economy.

Yet here in this country, the majority is supposed to fucking adapt and learn Spanish so we can 'get by' in our own country. That's horseshit. Either adapt to the culture of America, or go home.

Right, because you can't get by with just English alone... :rolleyes

Cry me a river... :lol :lol :violin

If it was that easy to pick up a language... why don't you try picking up Spanish??? Oh, are you too good for it?? Is it beneath you...??? I could understand if you simply didn't want to, but you've taken such a hardline stance it is borderline 'supremacist'...."Either adapt to the culture of America, or go home"

Whatever dude.

[Phenomanul]

Wasn't it purchased rather than annexed? True but the issue came into being the moment the states were annexed into the US...

[TheSanityAnnex]

True but the issue came into being the moment the states were annexed into the US...
Oh....................................alright.



Anyways. I love Mexicans. I love their food. I love their women. I love the avocado pickers that used to work my parent's grove and wake me up in the morning with their singing. I could do without their music. I grew up in San Diego so there were plenty of them at my school. I learned Spanish (real Spanish, you know, the kind you can actually use in Mexico) just being around them so much when I was younger. A second language has a lot of value. That really came to help me when I started frequenting Tijuana during highschool. Kept me out of the federali's hands a few times and also lowered the prices of a couple of lapdances. :lol


Anybody ever tried the bacon wrapped hotdogs down in Tijuana??? Hands down the best hotdog I've ever eaten.

[smeagol]

Spanish rules!

. . . but english is funnier! Try watching stand up comedy in Spanish . . . booooring!

Between Spanish and English . . . I chose both!

Bilinguality rules!

[Guru of Nothing]

Right, because you can't get by with just English alone... :rolleyes

Cry me a river... :lol :lol :violin

If it was that easy to pick up a language... why don't you try picking up Spanish??? Oh, are you too good for it?? Is it beneath you...??? I could understand if you simply didn't want to, but you've taken such a hardline stance it is borderline 'supremacist'...."Either adapt to the culture of America, or go home"

Whatever dude.

Last I checked, the Bible was written in English.

God hates foreigners.

[SPARKY]

If yew don't speek Ahglish yew ain't no 'merikan.

[Nbadan]

Bilinguality rules!

Biliguals scare the hell out of god-fearing Americans.