Small Ball Cost This Team

[PeterBurns]

At the end of the day. I firmly believe that adhering to the Mavs style of basketball is what cost this team.

[Melmart1]

No, having two worthless centers cost this team.

[CharlieMac]

They won us a title last year. Not using them cost this team.

[strangeweather]

They won us a title last year. Not using them cost this team.

Exactly how would it have helped to have someone out there with no real offensive game that can't guard anyone on the floor except the guy Timmy is guarding?

[Melmart1]

They won us a title last year. Not using them cost this team.

Nazr and Rasho could not have kept up with any of the Mav's fast, agile players. Using them means the defense is no better, but now the offense has one less threat. Do you not SEE how bad the defense is when Nazr is in? He is useless in situations like these. And Rasho is simply too slow. Mavs would have breezed past us.

Oh, and last year- the Spurs did not play the Mavs in the playoffs. And the team was a little different too, they played different. Comparing this year's Mavs and last year's is apples to oranges.

[CosmicCowboy]

At the end of the day. I firmly believe that adhering to the Mavs style of basketball is what cost this team.

Nope

You not posting a bravatar pic of Stacie lost it for us...
:lol

[tlongII]

Nope

You not posting a bravatar pic of Stacie lost it for us...
:lol


Insightful and accurate.

[CharlieMac]

Nazr and Rasho could not have kept up with any of the Mav's fast, agile players. Using them means the defense is no better, but now the offense has one less threat. Do you not SEE how bad the defense is when Nazr is in? He is useless in situations like these. And Rasho is simply too slow. Mavs would have breezed past us.

Oh, and last year- the Spurs did not play the Mavs in the playoffs. And the team was a little different too, they played different. Comparing this year's Mavs and last year's is apples to oranges.

Yeah, Horry and Finley did a stellar job on defense. Rasho and Nazr clog up the middle. Dirk has a long history of pussing out when there are shot blockers in the lane and resorting to jumpers when someone like Shaq or Rasho, or anyone 6-11 and and above is in the lane. Much like when Bowen stopped him in the regular season (with Nazr playing decent minutes), that might have changed the pace of the game in the Spurs favor. I am already sick of hearing about this "new, aggressive Dirk" that the media is already pushing. He wasn't scared to take it at players that are 6 inches shorter than him. Wow.

When I refer to last year in the playoffs, I refer to the Sun's series. I wouldn't say that those two teams are that different. I'm actually suprised at how quickly this board has turned on those two centers considering how little they played this series.

[MadDog73]

Fact: The longest stretch played by Nazr (11:59) was in game 2.

Which we lost. By a lot.

Now, I'm not blaming that loss on Nazr, but it certainly proved to Pop that if putting Nazr in for significant minutes isn't going to net you anything, it might not be a good idea.

We could've won last night. I don't think putting Rasho or Nazr in there gurantees you anymore wins, and could in fact lead to more losses.

As for this argument "Spurs don't play small ball." Wrong. We did it last year, and beat the Suns. We can play small ball, and we can win doing it. If we had won last night, I think everyone would be singing a different tune.

The fact we didn't just means we didn't. It doesn't mean Pop sucks, anymore than Manu fouling Dirk means Manu sucks.

[CharlieMac]

I guess it doesnt even matter anymore. I'm just gonna not dwell on it. It happened.

[Melmart1]

Yeah, Horry and Finley did a stellar job on defense. Rasho and Nazr clog up the middle. Dirk has a long history of pussing out when there are shot blockers in the lane and resorting to jumpers when someone like Shaq or Rasho, or anyone 6-11 and and above is in the lane. Much like when Bowen stopped him in the regular season (with Nazr playing decent minutes), that might have changed the pace of the game in the Spurs favor.

When I refer to last year in the playoffs, I refer to the Sun's series. I wouldn't say that those two teams are that different. I'm actually suprised at how quickly this board has turned on those two centers considering how little they played this series.

There you go again, living in the past. Did you not see Dirk's performance this series? The man was a beast, plain and simple! He was completely unstoppable. He was afraid of NOTHING. He did not puss out. Playing Rasho or Nazr on him means that not only does he score, he gets an and-1 much more often. So then you sit your center and have to play- small ball. Six fouls to give does not work against this Mavs lineup, period.

And Nazr playing decent minutes would have changed the pace of the game- and the outcomes as well. Spurs would have lost in 5, easily. Does anyone forget how many points he costed us the last time he played? It was something like 6 or 8 points in a minute's time. In a series with so many last-second wins, those 6 or 8 mean a helluva lot.

[Taking it to the Hole]

The thing the Spurs didn't do was match up against AJ's strategy. Many of you haven't forgotten the approach we used to defeat Phoenix a year ago when they employed a similar "small ball " approach, we countered with a "big ball" approach using two or three bigs at a time. Duncan killed Phoenix on the high-low that year, and that was the difference ultimately. We forced Phoenix to drive by playing tight D on the perimieter and Nash couldn't find passing lanes or couldn't get a shot off over our bigs. One of the bigger reasons we lost this series was very simple: rebounding. We got outrebounded in almost every game, if not every game this season and our defensive rebounding was horrible. You cannot give a team like Dallas two or three more chances, it is just too draining to play D that many times. The Spurs lost on the boards and I don't know how many times I saw Bowen and Parker trying to fight for a rebound with Nowitzi and Diop and they lost every time. Pop left Tim on a island too many times this season. I am not saying this strategy would have won the series for the Spurs but it couldn't have hurt.

[CharlieMac]

There you go again, living in the past. Did you not see Dirk's performance this series? The man was a beast, plain and simple! He was completely unstoppable. He was afraid of NOTHING. He did not puss out. Playing Rasho or Nazr on him means that not only does he score, he gets an and-1 much more often. So then you sit your center and have to play- small ball. Six fouls to give does not work against this Mavs lineup, period.

And Nazr playing decent minutes would have changed the pace of the game- and the outcomes as well. Spurs would have lost in 5, easily. Does anyone forget how many points he costed us the last time he played? It was something like 6 or 8 points in a minute's time. In a series with so many last-second wins, those 6 or 8 mean a helluva lot.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42319


I didn't think this season was that long ago. Now that I'be noticed you took your cans off, I guess I better change my avatar.

[ploto]

Pop actually thought about Rasho in the first quarter last night when the Mavs were scoring so easily, but AJ kept going with a smaller and smaller line-up with Dirk as the biggest guy on the floor.

I will say, though, that it is not fair to paint Rasho and Nazr with one single stroke. They are very different players.

[Russ]

I trust Pop as one of the best coaches in the league. Period.

But I can't help but think of Gene Mauch, manager during the Phillies' monumental collapse in 1964. Down the stretch, the Phils were dropping daily in the standings. Mauch adopted a radical strategy -- a two man pitching rotation of Jim Bunning and Chris Short. In other words, he abandoned half of his rotation. It resulted in a collapse of historic proportions and Mauck has been the classic icon of "overmanaging" since then.

Did Pop overeact to the Mavs lineup change? Mauch never won a championship despite managing talented teams. Pop has already won three. To quote the late Lloyd Benson, Gene Mauch, you're no Gregg Popovich.

But the question does arise.

[BgT]

At the end of the day. I firmly believe that adhering to the Mavs style of basketball is what cost this team.
No doubt about it. I still think this is all Pop's fault.

[romsho]

Agreed. The reason for the change was to guard Nowitzki, who averaged 27 and 13. So would it have been worse playing the style that the whole team was used to for an entire season? I think not. The change in philosophy destroyed a great Spurs defense, one that is predicated on funneling shooters baseline where shotblockers could make up for a lack of athleticism on the perimeter. Rebounding, shotblocking, stingy interior defense- gone in this series. The changes wore out the starters, made a great bench in the regular season useless, and forced anybody not named Tim Duncan out of their comfort zone on offense and everyone, including Duncan, in a bad situation on defense. Popovich went away from the philosophy that won him three championships- against a team that he played four times in the regular season. What the hell was so different? Devin Harris starting? Please. Eight steps backward to take one step forward- Pop panicked after game 2 and we will never know what might have been.

[MadDog73]

Pop panicked after game 2 and we will never know what might have been.


That's the only truth. Spurs could have lost in 5. Or won.

We'll never know, because that's not what happened. But, we were up by 3 with 30 seconds remaining, and had the ball for the final possession.

You really can't ask for more than that in a Game 7...

[BgT]

Everyone is talking about Dirk. How Rasho in the game would mean Dirk could not be defended well... :lol :lol The guy had 35/20 every fucking game. How worse can it be? Come on - THINK, THINK, THINK! Another center in the paint would mean Spurs-Suns, I'm sure about it.

Anyway... we all talk about our players, how they suck... what about Popovich? I guess if a player sucks... why couldn't the coach suck too? Is he not human? Doesn't he make mistakes? I believe he does, doesn't he? And if makes mistakes, couldn't his mistakes cost us the series? Rasho's, Brent's, Nazr's mistakes/incompetence are not that important - because coach can play other players. But Pop's mistakes are lethal. Nobody can neutralize them. I always knew Pop is one of the worse in the league when it comes to in-the-game adjustments. But I always trusted in his adjustments between the games. Until now. He's a stubborn guy and it costed us a lot. Our players are ok, this team is a championship winning team with a right approach. Who here thinks this team is not capable of winning the title? Come on.

[peskypesky]

I said it from the beginning of the series. No Center = No Series. You can't win without a Center in the NBA.

The Spurs set a franchise record for wins this season and they played with a Center! Then Poopavitch decides to switch to small-ball for the play-offs?!?!? IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ocotillo]

patience.......

We have a seven footer in France that will be able to chase Dirk around when he comes here.

[strangeweather]

You can't win without a Center in the NBA.

Witness Phoenix's finish in the cellar for proof.

[T Park]

Id like for someone to give me the name of the bigman to play.

Mohammed stunk.

Rasho was worthless.


Who else?


And for the love of god do not say Sean Marks.

[ambchang]

Mental mistakes at critical points of games cost this team. Up by three, you do NOT foul someone going for a layup (last night), and you do NOT throw the ball away on an inbounds (Game 4).
The Spurs lost 3 games they would have won last year (Games 3, 4 and 7), and it's because the Spurs made mental mistakes, and the Mavs played very well at the end of the game, executed and got exactly what they wanted. The Mavs deserved to win the series.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Exactly how would it have helped to have someone out there with no real offensive game that can't guard anyone on the floor except the guy Timmy is guarding?

Right, the two of them dealt with Amare Stoudemire and Ben Wallace last year, but somehow would have been worthless on the court against Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop.

Fucking brilliant.


Id like for someone to give me the name of the bigman to play.

Mohammed stunk.

Rasho was worthless.


Who else?

How the fuck would you know? they never got to play except in one game (2) where everyone on the team sucked. Yeah, that's a fair place to assess judgment.

If everyone who sucked in game 2 deserved to be benched for the rest of the series, we wouldn't have had enough left to field a team the rest of the way.

Typical Tpark. We lost this series because Pop tried to play the Mavs style of ball instead of playing the Spurs basketball that got this team three titles and 63 wins this year.

[samikeyp]

patience.......

We have a seven footer in France that will be able to chase Dirk around when he comes here.

If the Spurs want to get back to the top, they can't afford to wait too long.

[T Park]

We lost this series because Pop

typical aggie

[strangeweather]

Right, the two of them dealt with Amare Stoudemire and Ben Wallace last year, but somehow would have been worthless on the court against Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop.

Fucking brilliant.
You're right -- if we could only have found an answer to Dampier and Diop, this series would have been completely different. :rolleyes

If you put Rasho/Nazr on them, that means you have Tim on Dirk, right? I guess Timmy fouling out is no big deal as long as we can get Rasho out there.

Or do you have Timmy chasing some little guy around the perimeter, miles away from the paint?

[peskypesky]

You're right -- if we could only have found an answer to Dampier and Diop, this series would have been completely different. :rolleyes

If you put Rasho/Nazr on them, that means you have Tim on Dirk, right? I guess Timmy fouling out is no big deal as long as we can get Rasho out there.

Or do you have Timmy chasing some little guy around the perimeter, miles away from the paint?

You're brain (if you have one) is firmly lodged up your ass. If the Spurs can't beat Dallas while playing with Nazr/Rasho, please explain this FACT:
In the two regular season games in which San Antonio beat Dallas, Rasho/Nazr combined for 40+ minutes. Please explain to me how this was possible?

[strangeweather]

You're brain (if you have one) is firmly lodged up your ass. If the Spurs can't beat Dallas while playing with Nazr/Rasho, please explain this FACT:
In the two regular season games in which San Antonio beat Dallas, Rasho/Nazr combined for 40+ minutes. Please explain to me how this was possible?

In March, Adrian Griffin was still starting for them, and you could sub Popovich in and guard him just fine. Defending Griffin is a little different from defending Devin Harris.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're right -- if we could only have found an answer to Dampier and Diop, this series would have been completely different.

Funny, take away what those two guys contributed in game 7 and the Spurs win by double figures.

Did you even watch the games, or are you just too stupid to understand that we got killed on the glass and in points in the paint?



typical aggie

Still waiting for your candy ass to talk hoops, any time you want to get down to x's and o's and personnel decisions and talk shop, you're more than welcome.

Until then, STFU. Saying Rasho and Nazr were horrible when they played a combined 27 minutes in 7 games in this series shows how fucking stupid you are.

[strangeweather]

Funny, take away what those two guys contributed in game 7 and the Spurs win by double figures.

Did you even watch the games, or are you just too stupid to understand that we got killed on the glass and in points in the paint?

Actually, we owned their asses in points in the paint in at least some of the games -- Game 7, for example. But yeah, we were getting beat on the glass all series. But unless you play 6 on 5, you can't put in a rebounder without having him guard someone.

And again, we had Timmy on Diop and Damp -- just who is it that you think provides a more imposing defensive presence that could have shut these guys down? And who do you have Duncan guarding?

[BgT]

Even when we won the game, we lost offensive rebounding 12-4. :lol i hated those offensive rebounds. It's the small ball thing, there is no doubt about it.

[BgT]

Actually, we owned their asses in points in the paint in at least some of the games -- Game 7, for example. But yeah, we were getting beat on the glass all series. But unless you play 6 on 5, you can't put in a rebounder without having him guard someone.

And again, we had Timmy on Diop and Damp -- just who is it that you think provides a more imposing defensive presence that could have shut these guys down? And who do you have Duncan guarding?
Playing SPURS basketball would mean that we lose something and gain something. Would we lose more or gain more? Hmmmmm.... hmmmmmm.... 63 ........ hmmmmmmmmmmmmm .... 63 ........ really hard to tell. :elephant

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dude, there were times in this series where Avery had Dirk, Dampier, AND Diop on the court together.

We never countered with anything other than Tim and Horry, and got bitch slapped on the boards. Fucking weak.

Dallas was getting whatever they wanted on offense all series long anyway, who gives a fuck if we end up with one of our guys on a small or Dirk.

Last year we put Nazr on Amare, let the guy score 40 a game (just took caution not to give him three point plays), and smoked Phoenix.

Put Nazr or Rasho on Dirk, tell them not to give up the three pointer, and move their feet the best they could while beating the shit out of him with elbows, hips, etc. whenever he came into the lane.

Pop basically pussed out and catered to Avery's matchups all series. The last time that happened was back when he catered to LA, funny how that worked out all the same.

And howabout Robert Horry? When Phil ran him as a starter in 2003, he played horribly. Three years older this year, he looked worse. Why is that surprising?

Nazr and Rasho combined for 27 minutes in the series. How the fuck can anyone say what they would have done? Horry was giving us nothing and we were getting killed in the paint and on the glass.

Sooner or later, you put in a damn big and see what he can do.

Pop coached himself straight out of this series by scrapping his system, and then our defense and rebounding went to shit because we were asking four guards to try and play PF on the glass and in the paint.

Lame.

[SequSpur]

If you can't find fault in Pop's game plan for this loss then you are a fucking idiot.

Dallas was 87.3% from the field for the first 17-18 minutes in a Game 7 on homegotdamn court.

Dallas outrebounded SA, they outhustled, they scored at will.

The game plan was fucking wrong from the beginning of this series and post loss, the game plan is still fucking wrong.

Manu Ginobili has no fucking brains. I am not an NBA coach, but I fucking know that you don't foul on a layup when you are up by 3 with fucking seconds left in a Game 7.

This whole fucking postseason smells like Popovich dogshit. You can jack off to the 3 championships or you can be proactive and boo this dipshit out of town.

Pop is fucking stupid.

[BgT]

Dude, there were times in this series where Avery had Dirk, Dampier, AND Diop on the court together.

We never countered with anything other than Tim and Horry, and got bitch slapped on the boards. Fucking weak.

Dallas was getting whatever they wanted on offense all series long anyway, who gives a fuck if we end up with one of our guys on a small or Dirk.

Last year we put Nazr on Amare, let the guy score 40 a game (just took caution not to give him three point plays), and smoked Phoenix.

Put Nazr or Rasho on Dirk, tell them not to give up the three pointer, and move their feet the best they could while beating the shit out of him with elbows, hips, etc. whenever he came into the lane.

Pop basically pussed out and catered to Avery's matchups all series. The last time that happened was back when he catered to LA, funny how that worked out all the same.

And howabout Robert Horry? When Phil ran him as a starter in 2003, he played horribly. Three years older this year, he looked worse. Why is that surprising?

Nazr and Rasho combined for 27 minutes in the series. How the fuck can anyone say what they would have done? Horry was giving us nothing and we were getting killed in the paint and on the glass.

Sooner or later, you put in a damn big and see what he can do.

Pop coached himself straight out of this series by scrapping his system, and then our defense and rebounding went to shit because we were asking four guards to try and play PF on the glass and in the paint.

Lame.
So true. The first part shows Pop's incompetence with ingame adjustments. The part where you talk about elbows is actually a good one, too. I've seen some great stuff when Dirk played for Germany. The opposing teams didn't have a guy to cover him, but instead they put a banger or two on him. He was just supposed to get him nervous&tired. And sometimes it really worked well. He can get lost and he can't hit a damn thing. He just runs outside 3-point area and forces shots. But you need to reach that level, you need to work on "kill Dirk" tactics. We didn't stop him did we? Then put a banger on him. He fouls out? Put another one.

[strangeweather]

Dallas was getting whatever they wanted on offense all series long anyway, who gives a fuck if we end up with one of our guys on a small or Dirk.

Actually, in the last 3 games we were making a ton of critical stops down the stretch. If the Mavs had had an extra open guy that we couldn't guard, we never make it out of Game 5, even if we do get some extra rebounds.


Put Nazr or Rasho on Dirk, tell them not to give up the three pointer, and move their feet the best they could while beating the shit out of him with elbows, hips, etc. whenever he came into the lane.

So you want Pop to take Rasho and tell him to play Dirk in tight man-to-man so there are no open outside shots, and then to stay out ahead of him when he penetrates, bumping him all the while? If Rasho were a 7-foot Bruce Bowen, that would be a terrific idea.


Pop basically pussed out and catered to Avery's matchups all series. The last time that happened was back when he catered to LA, funny how that worked out all the same.

[QUOTE=Aggie Hoopsfan]Nazr and Rasho combined for 27 minutes in the series. How the fuck can anyone say what they would have done? Horry was giving us nothing and we were getting killed in the paint and on the glass.

Horry didn't give us much. We used him less and less as the series went on, which is why Finley was starting. But neither Rasho nor Nazr was much of a weapon this year. Rasho isn't that great a rebounder or defender. Nazr has better potential, but his mistakes were excruciating all season long -- he's not a smart player.

Don't get me wrong -- if we had a good center, I would be 100% in favor of putting him in and ramming him down the Mavs' throats. But we had Rasho and Nazr instead.


Sooner or later, you put in a damn big and see what he can do.

Or you stick with the game plan, try to tweak it and see if your guys can come through. Despite our expansive shopping list of needs for this offseason, they almost did.

[BgT]

So you want Pop to take Rasho and tell him to play Dirk in tight man-to-man so there are no open outside shots, and then to stay out ahead of him when he penetrates, bumping him all the while? If Rasho were a 7-foot Bruce Bowen, that would be a terrific idea.
It couldn't be worse than it already was. Check out Dirk's stats, will you? :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Or you stick with the game plan, try to tweak it and see if your guys can come through. Despite our expansive shopping list of needs for this offseason, they almost did.

Pop's "game plan" is why we're talking about the off-season today. Scoreboard.

[BgT]

:lmao

[bendmz]

No, having two worthless centers cost this team.

WORTHLESS?????? 63 WINS ?????? :depressed

[bendmz]

"Pop basically pussed out and catered to Avery's matchups all series. The last time that happened was back when he catered to LA, funny how that worked out all the same."
Could it be......The Teacher STEPPING aside for his STUDENT?

[bendmz]

in either case, life goes on and the Spurs are OLD...... have to face this.... Time to start dumping the FAT!!!!!!!!!

[ALVAREZ6]

I question a lot of what Pop did in this series. He seemed like he was completely out-coached, the guy was just clueless. His strategy was a total contradiction to what he's all about.

Going small, not playing D, especially transition D...I was so sick of that series, I'm actually glad it's over. I couldn't take NBA basketball anymore, and those lame ass refs didn't help the cause either.

[strangeweather]

It couldn't be worse than it already was. Check out Dirk's stats, will you? :lol

Well if it couldn't get any worse, we should have just had Dirk's defender leave him to double someone else. :rolleyes

[BgT]

Outcoached big time.

[strangeweather]

Pop's "game plan" is why we're talking about the off-season today. Scoreboard.

The guys we played didn't win, so by definition the guys who didn't play are better? By that logic, we should have started Beno, Kiwi, and Oberto side by side with Rasho and Nazr.

With a lineup that big, we could dominate.

[DuncanInYourFace]

The guys we played didn't win, so by definition the guys who didn't play are better? By that logic, we should have started Beno, Kiwi, and Oberto side by side with Rasho and Nazr.

With a lineup that big, we could dominate.


I'm sorry you don't understand this, it's about drastically changing the lineup that won a franchise record number of games in THE MIDDLE OF THE PLAYOFFS

[DuncanInYourFace]

Honestly, we were lucky we didnt lose in 5, if Dirk hadnt fucked up that put-back (OF COURSE HE GOT THE REBOUND)

[BgT]

The guys we played didn't win, so by definition the guys who didn't play are better? By that logic, we should have started Beno, Kiwi, and Oberto side by side with Rasho and Nazr.

With a lineup that big, we could dominate.
That's not by definition. Your logical thinking is very bad.

If you have 84, 48, 65, 80, 72 selected.... and you could choose between additional numbers 54, 51, 30, 18, 10, 40 - what would give you the highest sum of 5 numbers? Certainly not replacing all five of 84, 48, 65, 80, 72, right? If some further calculations need to be done, let me know.

[manuginobili20]

I could understand Popabitch screwing up one game trying small ball just to see how it goes, but for the entire series? This guy had his head between his legs to not see what everyone else does.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The guys we played didn't win, so by definition the guys who didn't play are better? By that logic, we should have started Beno, Kiwi, and Oberto side by side with Rasho and Nazr.

With a lineup that big, we could dominate.


The guys we played during the regular season won 63 games. The guys we played last year in the Finals won an NBA championship.

By all accounts, most people with half a brain would consider those two facts as proof positive that what we had was working.

Ever heard the saying 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'?

It wasn't broke. Pop was a dumbass for fixing it.

[SequSpur]

No, having two worthless centers cost this team.

Stick to Window Shopping.

[ALVAREZ6]

No, having two worthless centers cost this team.
:wtf

OK fine, I'll give you Nazr...that dude seriously is worthless, he can't catch for fuck.


But Rasho could have helped in most series. Which centers around the NBA would you want on the Spurs that would have helped the Spurs a lot against Dallas?


It was a tough situation, Dirk creates so much trouble for the defense that we have to go small, and Tim obviously has to cover the center in the game.

How would you approach the situation?

Putting Tim on Dirk and having out worthless centers on Dampier/Diop, resulting in an early Tim Duncan foul trouble? or, would you have tried one of the worthless centers on Dirk, straight up, and let Dirk torch them?

[strangeweather]

That's not by definition. Your logical thinking is very bad.

If you have 84, 48, 65, 80, 72 selected.... and you could choose between additional numbers 54, 51, 30, 18, 10, 40 - what would give you the highest sum of 5 numbers? Certainly not replacing all five of 84, 48, 65, 80, 72, right? If some further calculations need to be done, let me know.

If vampires really existed, would they live on the moon?

This isn't a question of replacing one or more known values with others. It's a problem of counterfactual conditionals, and unless we start travelling to alternate universes, we will never know what might have happened if we had tried different strategies.

Saying it must be better or that it couldn't possibly be worse is just foolish.

[BgT]

I could understand Popabitch screwing up one game trying small ball just to see how it goes, but for the entire series? This guy had his head between his legs to not see what everyone else does.
To see how it goes? :lmao Small ball is his new religion! You can't get away from it, that would be sin.

[BgT]

If vampires really existed, would they live on the moon?

This isn't a question of replacing one or more known values with others. It's a problem of counterfactual conditionals, and unless we start travelling to alternate universes, we will never know what might have happened if we had tried different strategies.

Saying it must be better or that it couldn't possibly be worse is just foolish.
You started with this "absolute" crap and replacing all of our starting five...

If something doesn't work, you are supposed to try something different. Pop didn't do that and this is his mistake. If he would switch to our normal game for 15 minutes and it wouldn't help - fine. But he didn't do that so why don't you talk about "alternate universes" to him?

[strangeweather]

You started with this "absolute" crap and replacing all of our starting five...

My point all along was that anybody who says that they know exactly how an different lineup would have done is full of crap.


If something doesn't work, you are supposed to try something different. Pop didn't do that and this is his mistake. If he would switch to our normal game for 15 minutes and it wouldn't help - fine. But he didn't do that so why don't you talk about "alternate universes" to him?

What about Nazr's 11-minute, 4-foul performance in Game 2 did you think required further scrutiny?

[BgT]

Putting Tim on Dirk and having out worthless centers on Dampier/Diop, resulting in an early Tim Duncan foul trouble? or, would you have tried one of the worthless centers on Dirk, straight up, and let Dirk torch them?
And we even have three guys that could pretend to defend Dirk. Dirk would score the same amount of points (I think so because of FT's normally have bad influence on team's/player's tempo + no 3-pointers) but we would have much better situation in rebounding. Even without the defender in the paint, with tactics like that, there would be less chance for missed shot + offensive rebound after (missed !!) second FT.

[BgT]

My point all along was that anybody who says that they know exactly how an different lineup would have done is full of crap.



What about Nazr's 11-minute, 4-foul performance in Game 2 did you think required further scrutiny?
That was Game 2, check some other stats for our team... You would just put Nazr in the game and tell him to bang Dirk. Let him shoot FT's, he's good at hitting them but I wrote in the previous post, why I think it would be better for us to play like that. And before someone jumps at me "Dirk shot a lot of FT's and it was baaaad" - the fouls were done by guys that we really need doing other stuff: Manu, Tim even Bowen. these guys got fouled out or came into huge foul troubles and you can't play your A game with 5 fouls (or 4 earlier on). If Rasho or Nazr get 5 fouls - who gives a fuck? Replace him with the other one and there is still Fabricio, he would be a good Dirk banger.

[strangeweather]

That was Game 2, check some other stats for our team... You would just put Nazr in the game and tell him to bang Dirk. Let him shoot FT's, he's good at hitting them but I wrote in the previous post, why I think it would be better for us to play like that.
Your plan is to give a 90% FT shooter a free pass to the line all night? :wtf

[BgT]

Your plan is to give a 90% FT shooter a free pass to the line all night? :wtf
Read the whole post(s) what would other benefits of this be. And obviously he wouldn't be fouled at every shot. Instead some shots would be heavily contested (even our big guys would make a successful defense from time to time, that's obvious) and resulted in easy miss. Also Dirk is 55-60% from the game, whish is a lot. Not to mention that half of his missed shots were rebounded and scored. Also how many and-1's Dirk had? Seemed like 5 hundred to me.
And there is always psychology. Dirk wouldn't be happy about banging him all the time. Also other Mavs players get better momentum when Dirk (or anyone else) scores from the field (esp. driving in and/or dunking) comapred to making FT's.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What about Nazr's 11-minute, 4-foul performance in Game 2 did you think required further scrutiny?

Our whole team sucked in game 2. Using your logic, we should have finished the series with Marks, Beno, Oberto, Barry, and Bowen.

[strangeweather]

Read the whole post(s) what would other benefits of this be. And obviously he wouldn't be fouled at every shot. Instead some shots would be heavily contested (even our big guys would make a successful defense from time to time, that's obvious) and resulted in easy miss. Also Dirk is 55-60% from the game, whish is a lot. Not to mention that half of his missed shots were rebounded and scored. Also how many and-1's Dirk had? Seemed like 5 hundred to me.
And there is always psychology. Dirk wouldn't be happy about banging him all the time. Also other Mavs players get better momentum when Dirk (or anyone else) scores from the field (esp. driving in and/or dunking) comapred to making FT's.

OK, but a strategy predicated on fouling a lousy free throw shooter like Shaq rarely works. Even if there are ancillary benefits, trying it on one of the best FT shooters in the league just seems suicidal.

It's seems a lot like a team deciding that they won't contest any of Duncan's shots in the post, in the hopes that Duncan will get tired and our perimeter players will get cold without some shots.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The point isn't to put Dirk on the line. It's to knock the shit out of him when you have to foul him instead of having to have Duncan step aside while he goes in for a layup because TD can't afford to get in foul trouble.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's seems a lot like a team deciding that they won't contest any of Duncan's shots in the post, in the hopes that Duncan will get tired and our perimeter players will get cold without some shots.

Yeah, that's never worked before, LA only did it to us twice and now the Mavs did the same :/ After seven years, you'd think Pop would figure it out.

[BgT]

OK, but a strategy predicated on fouling a lousy free throw shooter like Shaq rarely works. Even if there are ancillary benefits, trying it on one of the best FT shooters in the league just seems suicidal.

It's seems a lot like a team deciding that they won't contest any of Duncan's shots in the post, in the hopes that Duncan will get tired and our perimeter players will get cold without some shots.
Dirk shot a lot of FT's during the series. Did we play hack-a-Dirk tactics? I don't think so. He would have gone to the FT line a couple of times more. The difference would also be that our important players would not be in foul trouble. Plus the other benefits I wrote before.
The bottom line I wrote like 50 times is, that they couldn't do worse on Dirk, he was killing us.

[strangeweather]

After seven years, you'd think Pop would figure it out.

Well, RC's a fellow Aggie, so maybe if you submit your resume, we'll finally get a coach that understands basketball.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Maybe so, because it looks like our coach is regressing.

[PeterBurns]

Here is the stat to end all conversations on this topic.
They had 25+ More Offensive Rebounds in this series...

Do the math.

[BgT]

Here is the stat to end all conversations on this topic.
They had 25+ More Offensive Rebounds in this series...

Do the math.
The math says that's a lot of second chance points. The math also says the small ball sucks. :lol

Wait - there were also some third chance points, the math apologizes.

[jamezyjamez]

Yes - Pop was a moron for giving his team with a good chance to win every game (except #2). What a jackass for thinking his experienced, playoff-tested team would be able to pull out a victory in crunch time! What have the Spurs ever done to make him think they were capable of that?! :rolleyes

PLEASE FIRE POP!

Cubes is always on the lookout for our 28th assistant coach...

Like Pop said, if there was a Game 8, Spurs probably win. Cut the guy some slack.

[strangeweather]

Maybe so, because it looks like our coach is regressing.

After all, any idiot can make a team the winningest in basketball for a decade, but it takes a supergenius to refuse to make any adjustments in the playoffs.

[BgT]

What have the Spurs ever done to make him think they were capable of that?! :rolleyes
The team he was playing 48 minutes per game actually nothing, you got that right. It was some other team that had 63 wins in the regular season, and a couple of titles.

[spurs_in_7]

just face it...POP F*CKED IT UP

[BgT]

just face it...POP F*CKED IT UP
That doesn't help us. He should be the one facing it. He saw nothing wrong in this series, so we are fucked now. Pop already started to put together a small ball team. No centres and only one PF, TD. That should work. :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

After all, any idiot can make a team the winningest in basketball for a decade, but it takes a supergenius to refuse to make any adjustments in the playoffs.

Your idiot went away from what made him the winningest coach in basketball and tried to play small ball.

Your idiot is fishing, golfing, or tasteing wine, but he's done coaching for 3 months.

That's the bottom line.

[strangeweather]

Your idiot went away from what made him the winningest coach in basketball and tried to play small ball.

You'd think he would have learned from what happened when he tried to play at Phoenix's tempo last year. Shame on him.

Well, I hear Larry Brown is available. He never changes his approach.

[leemajors]

you guys might have a point if nazr was actually capable of being productive this year/postseason. he had his chances and sucked it up, bad. he cannot protect the paint. i think rasho may have been decent in spots, but he didn't get the time. the nazr we saw last year in the playoffs is long gone. pop is here until duncan retires, sit back and get used to it. we simply didn't have anyone who could guard dirk effectively for long stretches besides bruce, and we had to shuttle him around to try and cool down whoever else caught fire.

[BigD1]

Mental mistakes at critical points of games cost this team. Up by three, you do NOT foul someone going for a layup (last night), and you do NOT throw the ball away on an inbounds (Game 4).
The Spurs lost 3 games they would have won last year (Games 3, 4 and 7), and it's because the Spurs made mental mistakes, and the Mavs played very well at the end of the game, executed and got exactly what they wanted. The Mavs deserved to win the series.I think the problem was that Josh Howard had fantastic performances in the 1st 3 games. Rasho and Nazr could not guard a very athletic, quick and long player like him. It wasn't until Pop took Bowen off of Dirk and on put him on Josh Howard, that he started to struggle. Had Pop kept the Bigs in there, Josh would have had a career series. U figure, Dirk's going to get his points regardless, but u can't let J.Ho score 26pts a game. The Spurs just didn't have the athletes to matchup with Dallas this year, period. Let's not forget, this series may not have been as close as it appeared had Terry played in game 6. I truly believe that Dallas would have won in 6. SA had an opportunity to take advantage of that and couldn't. However, the Spurs are still a top 3 team. They just need to get younger and more athletic in the offseason and they'll be right back in it next year. Don't hang ur head too low. U still have the best big man to ever play the game and despite what critics say about his age and foot, he is by no means fading. In fact, I thought Duncan had his best performance in a series ever against Dallas.

[leemajors]

Let's not forget, this series may not have been as close as it appeared had Terry played in game 6.

this series could have also easily been spurs in 6 with 3 different bounces, or mavs in 4, spurs in 5, and so on and so forth. the series ended up every bit as close as it appeared. neither team was clearly superior to the other.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You'd think he would have learned from what happened when he tried to play at Phoenix's tempo last year. Shame on him.

You are one dumb son of a bitch.

Starting lineup last year vs. Phoenix:

Parker
Ginobili
Bowen
Duncan
Mohammed

Starting lineup vs. the Mavs:

Parker
Ginobili
Bowen
Duncan
Horry or Finley

Seeings you're a fucking idiot:

The Spurs played small ball with two seven footers last year and won. The Spurs played small ball with Tim Duncan and four guards this year and lost

Pop's a great coach, but he got worked in this series. Quit being so fucking dense.

[Mavtek]

Pop went with Small ball cause in the 2nd game he got torched like a Roman candle in a hot ashes.......

Trust me, he saw the film and realized pretty quickly that Nazr, Duncan, nor Rasho could handle Dirk or Howard on the defensive end. The thing that he didn't count on in the end was that none of his guys could handle Dirk on the defensive end.

You have to realize what Dallas was doing in game 2 to see what Pop had to do. Dallas primarily runs 2 plays for most of the game, the high pick, or a Dirk Iso at the top of the key. That's all they pretty much run I'd say %80 of the time. Pop knew that's what they were going to do by game 2, but the way they ran with Harris vs Griffin wasn't stoppable with Rasho in the game. Dirk would pick for Terry or Harris Nazr switched, now you have Parker on Dirk and Bowen on Terry or Harris doesn't sound bad yet does it. Now in the switch the guard has time to get in the key just slightly sucking in the Defense and now Terry or Harris can go to the wing to Howard or Stackhouse who is either gaurded by Nazr, Duncan, or Rasho, but if for some reason that mismatch isn't available he just dumps it back to Dirk and Dirk drains the jumper from the top of the key or if the Spurs bring a double he kicks to a guard who is being guarded now by a big. That guard can now shoot over the big or drive to the hole now guarded by a bunch of guards....

Pop had no choice really, Dirk is the ultimate defensive killer, he's simply like no other player to ever play the game. He's an above average shooting guard that happens to be 7' tall and can rebound as well as just about anyone in the league. Dirk's offensive skill set is so amazing but dare I say even if he were 6'5" he'd still be a starting guard in the NBA.

BTW, the Mavs never really played "small ball", our lineup primarily was 2 7 footers, 2 guards, and a lengthy small forward.

[leemajors]

2 point guards = small ball. avery went small in game 2.

[Vashner]

It was that 1st quarter.. they scored 37 points...

There was a Basketball Clinic and the Spurs where the patients...

[Mavtek]

2 point guards = small ball. avery went small in game 2.

Nah 4 guards and a center is small ball. Lots of teams play 2 small guards in their back court and it's considered conventional, Knicks, Detroit isn't far off with Rip only weighing 100lbs, Houston, Toronto.

[BgT]

I think the problem was that Josh Howard had fantastic performances in the 1st 3 games. Rasho and Nazr could not guard a very athletic, quick and long player like him.
Actually I was thinking about putting Rasho on Harris. :rolleyes

[Nbadan]

Pop had no choice really, Dirk is the ultimate defensive killer, he's simply like no other player to ever play the game. He's an above average shooting guard that happens to be 7' tall and can rebound as well as just about anyone in the league. Dirk's offensive skill set is so amazing but dare I say even if he were 6'5" he'd still be a starting guard in the NBA.

Dirk deserved the season MVP and is a offensive monster this year, especially when the Spurs let him drive left, which I still can't understand, but that's another story. However, Bruce didn't make Dirk pay on the other end. Against Phoenix, Dirk will probaly have to primarily guard Marion (21.9ppg) and I think we'll see just how deserving Dirk is of the playoff MVP award.

[Mavtek]

Dirk deserved the season MVP and is a offensive monster this year, especially when the Spurs let him drive left, which I still can't understand, but that's another story. However, Bruce didn't make Dirk pay on the other end. Against Phoenix, Dirk will probaly have to primarily guard Marion (21.9ppg) and I think we'll see just how deserving Dirk is of the playoff MVP award.

Nah this year Dirk won't have to guard Marion this year, I think he'll be on Tim Thomas and Damp will be on Diaw, Howard on Marion, and the guards will take whomevers left.

[BgT]

Dirk deserved the season MVP and is a offensive monster this year, especially when the Spurs let him drive left, which I still can't understand, but that's another story. However, Bruce didn't make Dirk pay on the other end. Against Phoenix, Dirk will probaly have to primarily guard Marion (21.9ppg) and I think we'll see just how deserving Dirk is of the playoff MVP award.
I didn't even have to check who wrote the post you've quoted, I knew it was Mavs fan. :lol

[Melmart1]

Stick to Window Shopping.

Stick to the topic.

All you people (Sequ included) were bashing Rasho and Nazr all season, how they sucked, were too slow, wouldn't dunk, had bad hands, butterfingers, etc. Now all the sudden they would have been our playoff saviors? Classic!

[samikeyp]

I agree with the whole "dance with you brung ya" theory but if they change the music...you have to adjust. The Spurs didn't lose this series because of the absence of Rasho and Nazr.

[strangeweather]

You are one dumb son of a bitch.

Sorry. When you said that we should stick with what won for us in the regular season, I didn't realize that you think it's okay to throw tempo and playing style out the window as long as we do it with exactly the same lineup.

I suppose that Pop should also have known that trying to slow Dallas down was utterly pointless because tempo isn't very important in basketball, unlike lineups, which should never, ever be changed for matchups.

[Jimcs50]

I am still pissed at Pop


forgive, sounds good
forget, i’m not sure i could
they say time heals everything
but i’m still waiting

i’m through with doubt
there’s nothing left for me to figure out
i’ve paid a price
and i’ll keep paying

i’m not ready to make nice
i’m not ready to back down
i’m still mad as hell and
i don’t have time to go round and round and round
it’s too late to make it right
i probably wouldn’t if i could
‘cause i’m mad as hell
can’t bring myself to do what it is you think i should

[travis2]

Stick to the topic.

All you people (Sequ included) were bashing Rasho and Nazr all season, how they sucked, were too slow, wouldn't dunk, had bad hands, butterfingers, etc. Now all the sudden they would have been our playoff saviors? Classic!

Don't bother bringing up inconvenient facts to the likes of them. You'll only confuse them.

[travis2]

Different thread, applicable here. Not that it will make any difference...but hey, one can hope...


I think it's pretty clear by now that Dallas is versatile. Besides, with the rules as they are, they did the right thing in forcing matchups.

This is the point that I don't understand from the Rasho/Nazr camp -- it's not as if playing those guys was going to force the Mavs to go big on the defensive end. Neither Rasho or Nazr is a particularly strong offensive player. AJ could have played Dirk on either of those guys and not had to concern himself with any sort of fouling issues or the need for double teams. Since playing those guys wouldn't have forced Dallas to matchup on the offensive end (any differently than they did), and since those guys wouldn't have had anyone to defend on the defensive end, what good does playing them do?

It seems to me that such a choice would have been far more stubborn than prudent.

[SlovenianGuy]

The second time I'm asking the same question.

If Pop WAS forced to play small ball, why didn't he use either Nazr or Rasho when Tim was on the bench? Do you really believe that Horry was the best option to play center in those (rare) minutes?

[travis2]

The second time I'm asking the same question.

If Pop WAS forced to play small ball, why didn't he use either Nazr or Rasho when Tim was on the bench? Do you really believe that Horry was the best option to play center in those (rare) minutes?

Yes...because a lot of the time Dirk was on the floor then. That was the problem. If they had gone with Dampier and 4 smalls, then fine...but they didn't.

[DarrinS]

Can we end this debate once and for all?

Nazr and Rasho had NO ONE to guard! Maybe, MAYBE, we do a little better on rebounding, but we lose offense, AND we put Tim in foul trouble early.

GET OVER IT ALREADY!


In case you haven't noticed it, there's a trend in the NBA, where teams are going with smaller, more athletic players. AND, it appears to be working. We need a long, athletic player (and Elton Brand type) to put next to Tim.


TO REPEAT: Rasho and Nazr wouldn't have done jack shit for us.

Thank you.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why don't you guys just admit that Dirk is a freakish 7'0" talent and an almost impossible cover? There is no guy on the Spurs not named Tim Duncan that has the height/hand/foot skill to guard him one on one with any reasonable effectiveness and frequent fouls will still result. He causes matchup problems for every team in the NBA. Play off of him and he is money on that fallaway jumper which is virtually impossible to block. The scariest part is that under Avery he is expanding his game. Play him tight and he is going to the rack agressively when it is available. Help defense leaves other shooters/slashers open. The tightening of the handcheck rules to include forearm bumping as well benefit Dirks game probably more than any player in the NBA...It gives him space to make the Pass.

All that being said, The Spurs played them dead even for 7 games and a few mental errors made the difference. Pop does not suck. The Spurs do not suck. Spurs under Pop have an excellent track record of building a team to matchup to the current #1 challenger. Now its Dallas. The bullseye is on THEIR back. I am confident that the Spurs can and will make the adjustments in the offseason to get the edge back.

[DarrinS]

Why don't you guys just admit that Dirk is a freakish 7'0" talent and an almost impossible cover? There is no guy on the Spurs not named Tim Duncan that has the height/hand/foot skill to guard him one on one with any reasonable effectiveness and frequent fouls will still result. He causes matchup problems for every team in the NBA. Play off of him and he is money on that fallaway jumper which is virtually impossible to block. The scariest part is that under Avery he is expanding his game. Play him tight and he is going to the rack agressively when it is available. Help defense leaves other shooters/slashers open. The tightening of the handcheck rules to include forearm bumping as well benefit Dirks game probably more than any player in the NBA...It gives him space to make the Pass.

All that being said, The Spurs played them dead even for 7 games and a few mental errors made the difference. Pop does not suck. The Spurs do not suck. Spurs under Pop have an excellent track record of building a team to matchup to the current #1 challenger. Now its Dallas. The bullseye is on THEIR back. I am confident that the Spurs can and will make the adjustments in the offseason to get the edge back.


Thank you for making my point even stronger. The Spurs were in every game (except game 2) and were beating the Mavs at THEIR OWN GAME, with players that are older and, arguably, less athletic. The Spurs were less than 30 seconds away from one of the greatest comebacks in history. Likewise, the Mavs were less than 30 seconds way from, what would have been, the biggest choke job in NBA history.

[MadDog73]

Fact: We were 30 seconds away from winning this series playing the way we did.

Fact: We don't know if we'd win or lose if Rasho or Nazr were playing 20 minutes a night. (although based on game 2, I'm guessing we'd lose in 5).

Question: Knowing that going small would give you a good chance to win the series, would you trade that for a result that is totally unknown?

If you told me that the Spurs would have the lead with 30 seconds to go, and have a chance to win the game in the final possession, I would take that any day, any time.

[Jimcs50]

Dallas won the series BECAUSE of rebounding!!!!! Dallas won because of 2nd chance points, not because of Dirk. TD outplayed Dirk. But Diop, Dirk and Dampier dominated the rebounding, bcause Pop put the team in a position that they were unaccustomed to. Pop has always had the philosophy for the perimeter players to funnel the opponent baseline right into TD and Rasho/Nazr, and what would happen? The opponent would have to make a horrible shot attempt over the shot blocker, and when they missed, the Spurs would have great position to rebound. Am I right???? Our perimeter defenders had to play a totally different defensive scheme against Dallas, and that cost the Spurs.



CC, how many teams have outrebounded the Spurs in a 7 game series?

Why did Pop have to adjust to the Mavs???

Make the Mavs adjust to the Spurs. With our 2 towers in the paint, the Spurs would have out-rebounded the Mavs, and they would have had to adjust to us. Bowen/Finey still could could have guarded Dirk, and Rasho could have been on Dampier/Diop, and TD could easily guarded Howard, as long as Rasho had his back in the paint.

Pop got outcoached by AJ, because AJ knew how to beat the Spurs defense, and that was to make Pop play small.

[Jimcs50]

Thank you for making my point even stronger. The Spurs were in every game (except game 2) and were beating the Mavs at THEIR OWN GAME, with players that are older and, arguably, less athletic. The Spurs were less than 30 seconds away from one of the greatest comebacks in history. Likewise, the Mavs were less than 30 seconds way from, what would have been, the biggest choke job in NBA history.


The Spurs made themselves even with Dallas, when they should have been superior to them.

That therein lies the my problem.

We were killed on the glass, and I can not live with that. Nuff said

[1Parker1]

Jim, Rebounding was the Spurs achilles heel ALL season, not just against the Mavs. Even when Rasho/Nazr started the other 82 regular season games, more often than not, the other team ended up outrebounding us.

[ata]

^^ Word!

Besides that, small ball did not stop Dirk, and his teammates meda more points as season average.

Small ball just opened the door for the Mavs.

PS: Let send Pop to Kings and keep PJ

[MrChug]

SMALL BALL KILLED US. Stop arguing. When you're the superior entity, you don't try to emulate the inferior entity. They should adjust...not us. We did. They won.

I box. If I'm far superior to the other guy with gloves in the ring, I'm not gonna start boxing and running just because he does, I'm going to keep doing what I do and see if he can handle it. If he can, he can...if he can't his loss.

[Jimcs50]

Jim, Rebounding was the Spurs achilles heel ALL season, not just against the Mavs. Even when Rasho/Nazr started the other 82 regular season games, more often than not, the other team ended up outrebounding us.

In the regular season, SA outrebounded Dallas in half the games and the total rebounding was dead even.

In the playoffs, Dallas led in rebs 6 of the 7 games.

Nice try

[DarrinS]

Dallas won the series BECAUSE of rebounding!!!!! Dallas won because of 2nd chance points, not because of Dirk. TD outplayed Dirk. But Diop, Dirk and Dampier dominated the rebounding, bcause Pop put the team in a position that they were unaccustomed to.


When you shoot almost 80% in a quarter (Mavs in game 7), rebounds are almost unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, rebounding is HUGE in a game, but it is not THE reason we lost the series.


In each of the Spurs championship seasons, there has been at least ONE player from the bench who was on fire from the perimeter.

In 1999, it was Jaren Jackson.
In 2003, it was Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr.
In 2005, it was Robert Horry.

Our bench was almost nonexistent in this series.

[travis2]

Why don't you guys just admit that Dirk is a freakish 7'0" talent and an almost impossible cover? There is no guy on the Spurs not named Tim Duncan that has the height/hand/foot skill to guard him one on one with any reasonable effectiveness and frequent fouls will still result. He causes matchup problems for every team in the NBA. Play off of him and he is money on that fallaway jumper which is virtually impossible to block. The scariest part is that under Avery he is expanding his game. Play him tight and he is going to the rack agressively when it is available. Help defense leaves other shooters/slashers open. The tightening of the handcheck rules to include forearm bumping as well benefit Dirks game probably more than any player in the NBA...It gives him space to make the Pass.

All that being said, The Spurs played them dead even for 7 games and a few mental errors made the difference. Pop does not suck. The Spurs do not suck. Spurs under Pop have an excellent track record of building a team to matchup to the current #1 challenger. Now its Dallas. The bullseye is on THEIR back. I am confident that the Spurs can and will make the adjustments in the offseason to get the edge back.

Another brilliant post! :tu

[Jimcs50]

And anothet thing, TD was hurt all year, that is the only reason why the Spurs rebounding was not as good. He was finally healthy in playoffs, and the Spurs should have dominated Dallas on the boards, if not just stay even with them. Had the just gotten 3 more O rebs the series would have been won by SA in 6 games.

[travis2]

Dallas won the series BECAUSE of rebounding!!!!! Dallas won because of 2nd chance points, not because of Dirk. TD outplayed Dirk. But Diop, Dirk and Dampier dominated the rebounding, bcause Pop put the team in a position that they were unaccustomed to. Pop has always had the philosophy for the perimeter players to funnel the opponent baseline right into TD and Rasho/Nazr, and what would happen? The opponent would have to make a horrible shot attempt over the shot blocker, and when they missed, the Spurs would have great position to rebound. Am I right???? Our perimeter defenders had to play a totally different defensive scheme against Dallas, and that cost the Spurs.



CC, how many teams have outrebounded the Spurs in a 7 game series?

Why did Pop have to adjust to the Mavs???

Make the Mavs adjust to the Spurs. With our 2 towers in the paint, the Spurs would have out-rebounded the Mavs, and they would have had to adjust to us. Bowen/Finey still could could have guarded Dirk, and Rasho could have been on Dampier/Diop, and TD could easily guarded Howard, as long as Rasho had his back in the paint.

Pop got outcoached by AJ, because AJ knew how to beat the Spurs defense, and that was to make Pop play small.

YOU CAN'T REBOUND WHAT GOES IN!!! :rolleyes

And if TD can't guard Dirk without getting into foul trouble, how in the m@#*@$f@&@&*% hell do you expect him to guard Howard???

Deal with it, Jim. The game plan as executed was the best of a set of bad choices.

[Jimcs50]

When you shoot almost 80% in a quarter (Mavs in game 7), rebounds are almost unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, rebounding is HUGE in a game, but it is not THE reason we lost the series.


.

They shot 80% because there was no fear in penetrating the paint. That made the Spurs' guards play 3 ft away from the Dallas guards and that made the jump shots almost too easy.

It is all related to one thing, no paint presence, which made the Spurs the Phoenix Suns.

[Jimcs50]

YOU CAN'T REBOUND WHAT GOES IN!!! :rolleyes

And if TD can't guard Dirk without getting into foul trouble, how in the m@#*@$f@&@&*% hell do you expect him to guard Howard???

Deal with it, Jim. The game plan as executed was the best of a set of bad choices.


They did not shoot 80% the whole time.

The Spurs lost 2 games because of their inability to get a DEFENSIVE rebound when Dallas missed in last 2 mins of Games 3 and 4.

Had we gotten those rebounds, the series would have been oover on Friday.

[travis2]

Answer my question, Jim.


And if TD can't guard Dirk without getting into foul trouble, how in the m@#*@$f@&@&*% hell do you expect him to guard Howard???

[Jimcs50]

The Spurs are NOT the Phoenix Suns with TD being Amare Stoudimire!!!!
Why try to be the Suns, the Spurs beat the Suns?

3 championships were won because of DEFENSE and REBOUNDING!!!!!!

[Jimcs50]

Answer my question, Jim.


TD could guard Howard, the way Rose guarded Shaq...it is called HELP DEFENSE.

YOU FUNNEL THE PLAYER BASELINE INTO THE SHOT BLOCKERS!!!!!!!

[Jimcs50]

No Shot Blockers?????


No Win!!!!!

[DarrinS]

They shot 80% because there was no fear in penetrating the paint. That made the Spurs' guards play 3 ft away from the Dallas guards and that made the jump shots almost too easy.

It is all related to one thing, no paint presence, which made the Spurs the Phoenix Suns.


Jim.

If you put Nazr or Rasho in the game, you have to take a player out. Who do you take out? Ok, you take out Finley or Barry. Who's going to guard GoatBoy (Nowitzki)? Who is this "big" going to guard? Diop or Dampier, right? That leaves Timmy to guard Dirk. Tim is not quick enough to guard Dirk. And, with the new rules, Tim would be in major foul trouble, early on in the game. Besides, Dirk seems to be bothered more by smaller defenders. Also, if Tim guarded Dirk, he would probably pull Tim away from the paint, leaving poor Rasho and Nazr to get torched by their speedy guards. This was just a shitty matchup for the Spurs.

[Jimcs50]

The Spurs always made the other team adjust to them, that is how Chicago won, that is how Houston won and that is how Detroit won.

YOU do not win by letting the other team make you adjust to them and not play your game, the game that won you 3 championships!!!!!

[ShoogarBear]

One thing that will be interesting is to see Dallas vs. either Detroit or Miami.

I bet neither of them goes small ball against the Mavs.

And I bet they do fine.

[1Parker1]

Jim, I don't get it...who would you have proposed guarded Dirk? Duncan would have been put into foul trouble...as I am sure Rasho and Nazr would have as well. So, in essence they wouldn't have been able to play that many minutes anyways.

I, too, had inititally thought small ball, lack of inside depth/rebounding was what killed the Spurs. However, after re-watching the last game, I realize that it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Think about it: Dallas shot 80% in Game 7, Spurs still managed to come back from 20 down with their small lineup to almost win the game and series. Games 5 and 6, despite getting outrebounded, Spurs still managed to win the game. My point is, that despite poor rebounding and lack of inside presence, Spurs were still close enough to win it.

Small Ball didn't cost the team, lack of bench production did. Horry, Barry, NVE were non-existent almost in this series. Meanwhile, Stackhouse, KVH, and Diop were giving the Mavs quality minutes/points.

[Jimcs50]

Jim.

If you put Nazr or Rasho in the game, you have to take a player out. Who do you take out? Ok, you take out Finley or Barry. Who's going to guard GoatBoy (Nowitzki)? Who is this "big" going to guard? Diop or Dampier, right? That leaves Timmy to guard Dirk. Tim is not quick enough to guard Dirk. And, with the new rules, Tim would be in major foul trouble, early on in the game. Besides, Dirk seems to be bothered more by smaller defenders. Also, if Tim guarded Dirk, he would probably pull Tim away from the paint, leaving poor Rasho and Nazr to get torched by their speedy guards. This was just a shitty matchup for the Spurs.

Read my post

Bowen on Dirk, then Finley on Dirk and sometimes TD on Dirk.

[1Parker1]

One thing that will be interesting is to see Dallas vs. either Detroit or Miami.

I bet neither of them goes small ball against the Mavs.

And I bet they do fine.

Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nazr/Rasho

[SlovenianGuy]

Jim, Rebounding was the Spurs achilles heel ALL season, not just against the Mavs. Even when Rasho/Nazr started the other 82 regular season games, more often than not, the other team ended up outrebounding us.

That's new to me.

In this season the Spurs had a difference of +1.17 RPG.

[Jimcs50]

Jim, I don't get it...who would you have proposed guarded Dirk? Duncan would have been put into foul trouble...as I am sure Rasho and Nazr would have as well. So, in essence they wouldn't have been able to play that many minutes anyways.

I, too, had inititally thought small ball, lack of inside depth/rebounding was what killed the Spurs. However, after re-watching the last game, I realize that it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Think about it: Dallas shot 80% in Game 7, Spurs still managed to come back from 20 down with their small lineup to almost win the game and series. Games 5 and 6, despite getting outrebounded, Spurs still managed to win the game. My point is, that despite poor rebounding and lack of inside presence, Spurs were still close enough to win it.

Small Ball didn't cost the team, lack of bench production did. Horry, Barry, NVE were non-existent almost in this series. Meanwhile, Stackhouse, KVH, and Diop were giving the Mavs quality minutes/points.



They would never shoot 80% had the Spurs played the defense that they have played since 1997....that is my point.

Dallas had an easy time scoring because we tried to be Dallas instead of being the 3 time champion, do you not understand that???

The Spurs were the best defensive team in the league the last 9 yrs overall, they never gave up that kind of shooting before. Even this year, the Spurs were 2nd best in FG% defense and that was with a team that was not near 100% all year.

Why you say???How can that be, w/o TD and Manu being near healthy???? Because of the defensive philosophy, that is why???

[DarrinS]

The Spurs are NOT the Phoenix Suns with TD being Amare Stoudimire!!!!
Why try to be the Suns, the Spurs beat the Suns?

3 championships were won because of DEFENSE and REBOUNDING!!!!!!


Actually, we played Phoenix-like basketball in that series.

Game 1 SAS 121, PHO 114
Game 2 SAS 111, PHO 108
Game 3 SAS 102, PHO 92
Game 4 PHO 111, SAS 106
Game 5 SAS 101, PHO 95


Believe it or not, the Spurs have been able to adapt fairly well, based on who they're playing. You ALWAYS have to play the matchup that gives your team the best chance to win. If Nazr or Rasho had significant minutes in this series, there probably wouldn't have even been a game 6.

[Jimcs50]

Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nazr/Rasho


TD and Rasho>>>>>>>>>Wallace brothers

[CosmicCowboy]

Jim...I am not going to waste any more time arguing this point. The rules are changing and the Spurs are changing with them. Slow it down, half court twin tower defense is a dinosaur. The game is getting faster because of rule change/interpretation and forcing us to play frequent 5 man perimeter defense. The classic 1,2,3,4,5, positions are getting more and more blurred every year. A big klutz on the perimeter is an automatic mismatch and your other players get in foul trouble trying to play help defense. Did you notice all the blocking fouls in the playoffs? If you leave your man to help they are gonna call it almost every time.

I have faith in the Spurs organization to adjust and thrive in the new game. There may only be one Dirk Nowitzki, but theres only one Tim Duncan too. I like our chances as long as he stays healthy.

[Jimcs50]

Actually, we played Phoenix-like basketball in that series.

Game 1 SAS 121, PHO 114
Game 2 SAS 111, PHO 108
Game 3 SAS 102, PHO 92
Game 4 PHO 111, SAS 106
Game 5 SAS 101, PHO 95


Believe it or not, the Spurs have been able to adapt fairly well, based on who they're playing. You ALWAYS have to play the matchup that gives your team the best chance to win. If Nazr or Rasho had significant minutes in this series, there probably wouldn't have even been a game 6.


Nazr was huge in that series.

We outrebounded Phoenix my a mile...look it up.

[ShoogarBear]

Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nazr/Rasho

Last time I looked Nazr and Rasho didn't play at the same time. Tim Duncan played along side of them.

[travis2]

TD could guard Howard, the way Rose guarded Shaq...it is called HELP DEFENSE.

YOU FUNNEL THE PLAYER BASELINE INTO THE SHOT BLOCKERS!!!!!!!

no, No NO!!!

Fuck, I'd rather TD guard Dirk. You put him on Howard and he either (1) drives around Tim before he can "funnel" him, or (more likely) (2) drives past, drawing contact, sending Tim to the bench to sit in foul trouble.

Tim is nowhere NEAR quick enough to funnel him to the baseline. Tim is a funnel-EE...not a funnel-ER.

[1Parker1]

TD and Rasho>>>>>>>>>Wallace brothers

Are you serious?

[DarrinS]

They would never shoot 80% had the Spurs played the defense that they have played since 1997....that is my point.

PERIMETER DEFENSE!


Those shots in the first quarter would not have been altered ONE IOTA with a center in the game. It's not like they were plastering us with slam dunks on every possession.

We were watching the same game, right?

[Jimcs50]

Jim...I am not going to waste any more time arguing this point. The rules are changing and the Spurs are changing with them. Slow it down, half court twin tower defense is a dinosaur. The game is getting faster because of rule change/interpretation and forcing us to play frequent 5 man perimeter defense. The classic 1,2,3,4,5, positions are getting more and more blurred every year. A big klutz on the perimeter is an automatic mismatch and your other players get in foul trouble trying to play help defense. Did you notice all the blocking fouls in the playoffs? If you leave your man to help they are gonna call it almost every time.

I have faith in the Spurs organization to adjust and thrive in the new game. There may only be one Dirk Nowitzki, but theres only one Tim Duncan too. I like our chances as long as he stays healthy.



WHY DID WE HAVE BLOCKING FOULS!!!????

Because we had no shot blockers and we had to try to take charges.....do you not see that??????????????????????????????????????????

[ShoogarBear]

Actually, we played Phoenix-like basketball in that series. We played more at their pace, but we didn't play small ball.

[MadDog73]

Look. You cannot say the Spurs would have won by playing Nazr and Rasho, because you don't know. You just don't. You can keep saying "We would have won, we would have won", until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make you right.

If we got blown out in 5 games playing small ball, then I'd agree with you. I'd be calling for Pop's head on a stick. But the fact is, we almost won.

I would not trade a chance to win for an unknown.

[Jimcs50]

PERIMETER DEFENSE!


Those shots in the first quarter would not have been altered ONE IOTA with a center in the game. It's not like they were plastering us with slam dunks on every possession.

We were watching the same game, right?



READ MY LIPS!!!!!!


The Guards had to play 3 ft from the Dallas players on perimeter because they had to stop penetration, and that is why Dallas had so many easy jumpshots.

It is all related to fucked up no defense small ball.

Try to understand that, please

[DarrinS]

Nazr was huge in that series.

We outrebounded Phoenix my a mile...look it up.


Just look at the Scores.

Also, look up how many points Brent Barry had.

[Jimcs50]

Are you serious?


Fuck yes, I am dead serious. Our front line won the series last year against their front line. Their guards outplayed our guards....do you not agree?????

[DarrinS]

READ MY LIPS!!!!!!


The Guards had to play 3 ft from the Dallas players on perimeter because they had to stop penetration, and that is why Dallas had so many easy jumpshots.

It is all related to fucked up no defense small ball.

Try to understand that, please


I'm sure it has nothing to do with NVE not being about to fight around a screen. :)

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

For whatever reason(s), Nazr was in Pop's doghouse this playoffs.

Aggie's points are very valid I believe. We beat Phoenix last year playing Nazr, and that team was every bit as fast as Dallas, considerably moreso if you consider Amare was at center for Phoenix throughout most of that series. Nazr had a couple of big games in that series because of the matchup problems he can create for a small team.

On top of that, against Phoenix last year Nazr provided defense around the basket that we were sorely lacking in this series. We couldn't defend in the paint at all, except for Duncan. Horry proved he's not really any quicker of a defender than Nazr, and Nazr proved he's a better three point shooter than Horry :).

What disappointed me is that we didn't experiment with Nazr and/or Rasho at all in this series. For anyone who says "we would have never matched up with Dallas' speed had we played Rasho and Nazr", just remind me. . .who is still playing? It's obvious the small ball didn't work and we didn't match up with the Dallas lineup by going small. I'm surprised at Pop, because last year he showed me he could adjust on the fly, and I figured he'd grown out of his tendency to stick with one mindset and get out-thunk by the Phil Jackson's of the world. . .but this series showed me he's still determined to stick with a single mode of thought, even if it's to the detriment of the team.

We don't know if playing our bigs would have worked in this series because we never did it. Conversely, AJ, despite Duncan killing them, played to his teams strengths in this series and didn't worry about necessarily trying to match what we were doing out there. Of course he didn't have to because we played to Dallas' style. AJ won the coaching battle in a landslide, but I'm still a fan of Pop. . .sometimes you just get out-coached, and Pop got out-coached.

[CosmicCowboy]

WHY DID WE HAVE BLOCKING FOULS!!!????

Because we had no shot blockers and we had to try to take charges.....do you not see that??????????????????????????????????????????

So you sag a big in the paint without a player to guard and hope he doesn't get called for defensive 3 seconds and then let everyone else play 4 on 5 on the perimeter with a known jumpshooting team that has good passing skills?

you may be a good dentist but you would suck as a coach...:lol

[Jimcs50]

For whatever reason(s), Nazr was in Pop's doghouse this playoffs.

Aggie's points are very valid I believe. We beat Phoenix last year playing Nazr, and that team was every bit as fast as Dallas, considerably moreso if you consider Amare was at center for Phoenix throughout most of that series. Nazr had a couple of big games in that series because of the matchup problems he can create for a small team.

On top of that, against Phoenix last year Nazr provided defense around the basket that we were sorely lacking in this series. We couldn't defend in the paint at all, except for Duncan. Horry proved he's not really any quicker of a defender than Nazr, and Nazr proved he's a better three point shooter than Horry :).

What disappointed me is that we didn't experiment with Nazr and/or Rasho at all in this series. For anyone who says "we would have never matched up with Dallas' speed had we played Rasho and Nazr", just remind me. . .who is still playing? It's obvious the small ball didn't work and we didn't match up with the Dallas lineup by going small. I'm surprised at Pop, because last year he showed me he could adjust on the fly, and I figured he'd grown out of his tendency to stick with one mindset and get out-thunk by the Phil Jackson's of the world. . .but this series showed me he's still determined to stick with a single mode of thought, even if it's to the detriment of the team.

We don't know if playing our bigs would have worked in this series because we never did it. Conversely, AJ, despite Duncan killing them, played to his teams strengths in this series and didn't worry about necessarily trying to match what we were doing out there. Of course he didn't have to because we played to Dallas' style. AJ won the coaching battle in a landslide, but I'm still a fan of Pop. . .sometimes you just get out-coached, and Pop got out-coached.


Ed, always the diplomat.



:)

[Jimcs50]

So you sag a big in the paint without a player to guard and hope he doesn't get called for defensive 3 seconds and then let everyone else play 4 on 5 on the perimeter with a known jumpshooting team that has good passing skills?

you may be a good dentist but you would suck as a coach...:lol


Yeah, the Spurs sagged for the last 9 yrs without getting 3 secs called and now they will be called for it????

They do not sag, they react to the offense, it is all in the scheme. Have you not watched the Spurs play since 1997?????

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, the Spurs sagged for the last 9 yrs without getting 3 secs called and now they will be called for it????

They do not sag, they react to the offense, it is all in the scheme. Have you not watched the Spurs play since 1997?????

Jim, the RULES HAVE CHANGED!!!!!!!!

1) No hand checks
2) No forearm checks
3) Moving screens aren't called
4) If you leave your man to block a penetrator blocking fouls are called.

Thats just in the last two years.

Oh yeah...they didn't get defensive 3 seconds called because they were WITH THEIR MAN. Everyone else was playing the same way we were. They don't now.

Don't you SEE that?

[DarrinS]

Yawn. I'm tired of this debate.


Manu doesn't foul Dirk and we'd be here talking about what a genius Pop is. Oh well. Pop has 3 rings and we're posting threads.

I think we're a little spoiled in this town.

Spurs will have the core of Tim, TP, and Ginobilli for a few more years. We surround them with a better supporting cast and we're right back in it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yawn. I'm tired of this debate.


Manu doesn't foul Dirk and we'd be here talking about what a genius Pop is. Oh well. Pop has 3 rings and we're posting threads.

I think we're a little spoiled in this town.

Spurs will have the core of Tim, TP, and Ginobilli for a few more years. We surround them with a better supporting cast and we're right back in it.

Exactly. The "new" game benefits the Spurs as much or more than anyone. We have TP and Manu locked up long term and they are perfect players for that kind of game. Spurs will do their annual roster tweak. Tim could average 30-15 next year in that type of system and be right back into MVP contention with Manu and Parker averaging 20+ a game. Defense will still be a focus of the Spurs. Do the math. It's a great time to be a Spurs fan.

[Jimcs50]

I will not get over it.

This was the year for the Spurs to finally repeat and Pop blew it.

Pop did not make it clear to Manu to not foul, had he said in the huddle: "Do not guard the basket, under any circumstances, no matter what, let them score a layup, but do not give up a 3 pointer" then Manu would have not fouled Dirk. What Pop said, was the thing he always says and that is "no fouls" That does not make an impression on NBA pros who always think that they can make a stop. You have to be specific and that is tell them, that a 2 pt shot does not mean jack shit, let them have it...

Pop fucked up and I think it is time for him to let PJ take over.

[MadDog73]

I will not get over it.

This was the year for the Spurs to finally repeat and Pop blew it.

Pop did not make it clear to Manu to not foul, had he said in the huddle: "Do not guard the basket, under any circumstances, no matter what, let them score a layup, but do not give up a 3 pointer" then Manu would have not fouled Dirk. What Pop said, was the thing he always says and that is "no fouls" That does not make an impression on NBA pros who always think that they can make a stop. You have to be specific and that is tell them, that a 2 pt shot does not mean jack shit, let them have it...

Pop fucked up and I think it is time for him to let PJ take over.

OK, you've lost it Jim. From what I understood from the press conference, Pop was NOT pleased with that foul. Manu was not pleased with the foul. It was a mistake, and not Pop's mistake.

Pop is a great coach, and we will win another Championship.

Why do we need to repeat to validate how good this team and Pop is?!?

[strangeweather]

One thing that will be interesting is to see Dallas vs. either Detroit or Miami.

I bet neither of them goes small ball against the Mavs.

And I bet they do fine.

The matchups are rather different.

Shaq obviously covers the Mavs' center, as Duncan does. Haslem and Walker will probably be the main guys chasing Dirk around. If the Spurs had Haslem and Walker instead of Rasho and Nazr, I imagine they would have been chasing Dirk around for us, too.

And Dirk is going to be a bitch for Detroit to cover, as well. He's going to get Sheed and McDyess in foul trouble if they cover him, but they;'re also at a disadvantage covering Howard, which makes switching Tayshaun a problem.

[1Parker1]

I'll concede on one point: Pop didn't even try playing Nazr/Rasho. To have expected them to come in and play effectively in Games 5-7 after being rusty from the bench would not have produced the same results. You're right in that we'll never know.

However, I think Pop's mentality was that first, Rasho/Nazr hadn't been playing all that well in towards the end. Was it Game 1 or 2 (?), where Pop gave Nazr 6 minutes, and in that stretch he fumbled an easy pass from Manu, missed his defensive rotation, and couldn't grab a rebound which cost the Spurs lead to go down. Secondly, I'm sure Pop was looking at the final score of the games. Aside from Game 2, every single game...including Game 7 was winnable by the Spurs, despite playing small-ball, despite having been outrebounded, despite allowing Mavs to score 100+. And because the games were still close and winnable, I am guessing Pop decided to go with small ball and not risk it by playing Nazr/Rasho. However, I do agree, he should have at least tried it.

But you can't really fault him, when the games were so close and it came down to luck and a shot going in or out. If Manu hadn't fouled Dirk on that play or if Duncan had made that put-back, of if Manu had passed to the wide open Horry instead of taking the layup in the end....we probably wouldn't be bitching about small ball :)

[MadDog73]

Nazr played 11:59 in the Game 2 blowout. He netted the Spurs 4 rebounds I believe.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

OK, you've lost it Jim. From what I understood from the press conference, Pop was NOT pleased with that foul. Manu was not pleased with the foul. It was a mistake, and not Pop's mistake.

Pop is a great coach, and we will win another Championship.

Damn, but Spurs fans are greedy! Why do we need to repeat to validate how good this team is?!?
I was greedy. I want Spurs to be selfish with the Championship! Damn it! :devil I think it's good to have this attitude.

No sympathy for Dirk. Even when he said that he's getting "...frustrated I'd finally like to participate in the Finals " when you hear that the humane side of you wants to be considerate towards his perspective. The competitive side just says, "Aww Poor Baby" and proceed by bringing the hammer down.

I want them to get it every year. Had they said, "I'll try" and shown a half-assed effort then, I'd be pretty pissed. They've done it before in the 2001-2002,2004 years. They didn't this year. They gave their best effort to go all the way. Came up short. So you can't complain.

That's where the greed stops and the sensibility kicks in, they've already proven they're winners TWICE in 3 years! No validation needed really.
Next year to go all the way, they're just gonna have to and overshoot themselves to the Title instead of coming up short.

[MadDog73]

I was greedy. I want Spurs to be selfish with the Championship! Damn it! :devil I think it's good to have this attitude.

No sympathy for Dirk. Even when he said that he's getting "...frustrated I'd finally like to participate in the Finals " when you hear that the humane side of you wants to be considerate towards his perspective. The competitive side just says, "Aww Poor Baby" and proceed by bringing the hammer down.

I want them to get it every year. Had they said, "I'll try" and shown a half-assed effort then, I'd be pretty pissed. They've done it before in the 2001-2002,2004 years. They didn't this year. They gave their best effort to go all the way. Came up short. So you can't complain.

That's where the greed stops and the sensibility kicks in, they've already proven they're winners TWICE in 3 years! No validation needed really.
Next year to go all the way, they're just gonna have to and overshoot themselves to the Title instead of coming up short.

I agree completely, I was just saying that Jim's accusation that Pop sucks because he can't repeat is pretty stupid.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'll concede on one point: Pop didn't even try playing Nazr/Rasho. To have expected them to come in and play effectively in Games 5-7 after being rusty from the bench would not have produced the same results. You're right in that we'll never know.

However, I think Pop's mentality was that first, Rasho/Nazr hadn't been playing all that well in towards the end. Was it Game 1 or 2 (?), where Pop gave Nazr 6 minutes, and in that stretch he fumbled an easy pass from Manu, missed his defensive rotation, and couldn't grab a rebound which cost the Spurs lead to go down. Secondly, I'm sure Pop was looking at the final score of the games. Aside from Game 2, every single game...including Game 7 was winnable by the Spurs, despite playing small-ball, despite having been outrebounded, despite allowing Mavs to score 100+. And because the games were still close and winnable, I am guessing Pop decided to go with small ball and not risk it by playing Nazr/Rasho. However, I do agree, he should have at least tried it.

But you can't really fault him, when the games were so close and it came down to luck and a shot going in or out. If Manu hadn't fouled Dirk on that play or if Duncan had made that put-back, of if Manu had passed to the wide open Horry instead of taking the layup in the end....we probably wouldn't be bitching about small ball :)

I think we'd hear a few quiet whispers complaining about the margin of victories being too close for comfort...only to be shushed by "we WON and You still complain??"

I think the complaints against Small-Ball are a valid point though. We never once gotten a consistent lead using it over the Mavs, basically the Mavs were at the advantage (with Nowitzki and his deep bench of scorers) the whole series and we were the scrappy underdog thanks to a few hustle plays by Manu in tandem with Duncan's Superman heroics. People don't realize that they aren't complaining about Small ball though. They're just addressing the fact that Mavs were built to kill us.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I agree completely, I was just saying that Jim's accusation that Pop sucks because he can't repeat is pretty stupid.
I think Pop will eventually repeat, and just got plain outmatched with the response the league had to us Spurs.

Pop almost did it. I think each year he gets better as a coach. He's a lot more willing to compromise than Larry Brown with his players and style. I don't think people realize that had Pop not gone small we wouldn't have gotten to game 6 even. Then we would have been hearing how stupid Pop was for not seeing Avery's mismatch. And how embarassing it was to lose by 10,15,20 every game.
Blame our lack of an extra long athletic rebounder this season.

If Pop gets to the 4th, and 5th title, he'll remove all doubt, even if it's not through a repeat. Though I think we can with this core. If anything has shown, with all that griping about Mavs series "Make them adapt to us!" They just did! And Small-ball had to counter it.

Ever since Shaq's Dynasty got dismantled, the whole league has been adapting to the Spurs in the last 2,3 years!

[Jimcs50]

I agree completely, I was just saying that Jim's accusation that Pop sucks because he can't repeat is pretty stupid.


Where did I say that????

I said Pop sucks because of small ball and not making it clear to NOT foul anywhere near the basket, and that they can give up a layup with no problem...in fact he should have just told the players that if they get 5 ft from the basket, just back off and say "go ahead and make it, we are up 3" The Mavs could have had 3 baskets in last 20 secs with that philosophy and we would have won, beacause Mnu and Finley would have made their FTs, that I have no doubt about.

I told my buddy during the timeout, "I hope the Mavs go to the basket instead of try a 3" when Dirk drove, I said, "yes!" Give them all the layups they want, just no 3 pointers.

[DarrinS]

I told my buddy during the timeout, "I hope the Mavs go to the basket instead of try a 3" when Dirk drove, I said, "yes!" Give them all the layups they want, just no 3 pointers.

Whether or not Pop said anything to the players, they are smart enough to know NOT to foul in that situation. Based on how the series had been called to that point, anyone would know that if you so much as fart in Dirk's general direction, he's going to the line. I would have been ok with the foul, just not the "and one". Ironically, Dirk appears to tomahawk both Ginobilli AND Duncan on the final play of regulation.

[blaze89]

People keep bringing up the Phoenix series from last year, if I recall, Shawn Marion was a non-factor and Joe Johnson was coming off an injury and Q. Richardson didn't deliver much. It was mainly Stoudamire and Nash.

Different scenarios.

[blaze89]

Ginobili going for the block was Ginobili being himself, he takes risks, plays all out effort, it's what's he always done since he's came into the NBA. Live with it.

[Jimcs50]

Whether or not Pop said anything to the players, they are smart enough to know NOT to foul in that situation. Based on how the series had been called to that point, anyone would know that if you so much as fart in Dirk's general direction, he's going to the line. I would have been ok with the foul, just not the "and one". Ironically, Dirk appears to tomahawk both Ginobilli AND Duncan on the final play of regulation.

Players do not coach themselves, it is the multimillion dollar coach's responsibility to make sure that the players do not have to make decisions that will end their year. Manu thinks he can make plays, he is a pro, that is his nature, but had Pop said: "LET THEM HAVE LAYUPS", Manu would not have tried to block the shot.

This was all on Pop.

[travis2]

:rolleyes

[blaze89]

Players do not coach themselves, it is the multimillion dollar coach's responsibility to make sure that the players do not have to make decisions that will end their year. Manu thinks he can make plays, he is a pro, that is his nature, but had Pop said: "LET THEM HAVE LAYUPS", Manu would not have tried to block the shot.

This was all on Pop.

You have got to be kidding?

[MadDog73]

Players do not coach themselves, it is the multimillion dollar coach's responsibility to make sure that the players do not have to make decisions that will end their year. Manu thinks he can make plays, he is a pro, that is his nature, but had Pop said: "LET THEM HAVE LAYUPS", Manu would not have tried to block the shot.

This was all on Pop.

You have got to be kidding me! OMG, that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum. That's like saying it's Larry Brown's fault that Rasheed left Horry open last year. Or Pop's fault Tim missed his free throw. It's stupid and juvenile. The Spurs lost, for many factors, but Manu's foul is NOT Pop's fault.

Jim, the Mavs are a great team. The sooner you accept that, and accept the fact the Spurs lost a close game in the last seconds, the happier you'll be.

Cause I guarantee you this: Pop will still be coaching next year. Rasho and/or Nazr will be gone. And the Spurs will still be in the playoffs, with a chance to win another Championship.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sorry. When you said that we should stick with what won for us in the regular season, I didn't realize that you think it's okay to throw tempo and playing style out the window as long as we do it with exactly the same lineup.

strangeweather, we won a title last year. We played small ball against Phoenix, beat them in *6 games*, and did it with Nazr and Tim Duncan on our front line.

I'm sorry this is lost on you. I give up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I recall, Shawn Marion was a non-factor and Joe Johnson was coming off an injury and Q. Richardson didn't deliver much.

Um, Marion and QRich didn't deliver much because of our DEFENSE, which Pop shredded this year because he decided to get cute with small ball.

You're right, different scenarios.

[strangeweather]

strangeweather, we won a title last year. We played small ball against Phoenix, beat them in *6 games*, and did it with Nazr and Tim Duncan on our front line.

Since you mentioned it, it was 5 games.

Yeah, we did it with Mohammed in the lineup, but we still made adjustments to our allegedly sacrosanct game for their style of play. And really, if we had last year's Nazr on this team, he probably would have seen some real minutes against Dallas.

But Nazr played like ass this year -- which means we had the choice between the lumbering center that can't play against athletic teams and the butterfingers center that makes plays that kill us. Which one of these guys do you see leading us to victory?

[DarrinS]

Since you mentioned it, it was 5 games.

Yeah, we did it with Mohammed in the lineup, but we still made adjustments to our allegedly sacrosanct game for their style of play. And really, if we had last year's Nazr on this team, he probably would have seen some real minutes against Dallas.

But Nazr played like ass this year -- which means we had the choice between the lumbering center that can't play against athletic teams and the butterfingers center that makes plays that kill us. Which one of these guys do you see leading us to victory?


Bingo. We have a winner.

[blaze89]

Um, Marion and QRich didn't deliver much because of our DEFENSE, which Pop shredded this year because he decided to get cute with small ball.

You're right, different scenarios.

Don't forget about Phoenix lack of attention to any defensive philosophy - better yet, their defense was their offense.

Now, you sacrifice offense for rebounds with a player who not exactly a rebounding machine. A team with three scorers against a team with four, maybe to prevent the drive but as one player drives and then dishes it out to to the perimeter. You couldn't foul the Mavericks cause they are a good FT shooting team.

OK, so you put Rasho in to guard the Mavs center, leaving Duncan to guard Howard - who I saw sitting out in the perimeter. What's to stop Avery Johnson to take out Diop, Dampier in place of another guard?

I'd agree if the Spurs lost by 20 in 5 games and were completely run out of the gym but 6 games were close and went down to the last minute and were lost to little things - turnover, bad calls, bad fouls - and in the game 7, the Spurs came back from 20 down with "small ball" unless I was completely lost and missed Rasho and Nazr lead the rally.

[rr2418]

Id like for someone to give me the name of the bigman to play.

Mohammed stunk.

Rasho was worthless.


Who else?


And for the love of god do not say Sean Marks.


Sean Marks !! :lol j/k

Pop didn't have to play big all the time, but maybe in certain situations. What are those situations? I'm not sure. All I know is that Pop got away from what was so successful. Can you imagine Texas Tech running the wishbone 50 times in a game and abandoning their run and shoot air attack just b/c the opposing team was defending the pass well? TT isn't a good team as it is, they probably wouldn't score a td!! I know I went off track here, but I'm trying to make a point that Pop shouldn't have gone away from the bigs, at least not totally. Dirk was incredible in this series, but having a big with length might've made some of Nowitski's shots a bit difficult. Also, the
Spurs pride themselves on stopping players from penatrating the lane. A big might've made the shot more difficult. Maybe imploring a zone just to mix things up along with a big might've worked, who knows? Like many of the posters said, I think Pop jumped the gun and really thought he could match up with them better by going small, but the smalls the Spurs have are dependant on the bigs clogging the lanes and getting rebounds. Again, Rasho and Nazi aren't the second coming, but they might've gotten some key rebounds.

[velik_m]

OK, so you put Rasho in to guard the Mavs center, leaving Duncan to guard Howard - who I saw sitting out in the perimeter. What's to stop Avery Johnson to take out Diop, Dampier in place of another guard?



and have Dirk on Duncan? cool! than spurs could take out Rasho.

[travis2]

Sean Marks !! :lol j/k

Pop didn't have to play big all the time, but maybe in certain situations. What are those situations? I'm not sure. All I know is that Pop got away from what was so successful. Can you imagine Texas Tech running the wishbone 50 times in a game and abandoning their run and shoot air attack just b/c the opposing team was defending the pass well? TT isn't a good team as it is, they probably wouldn't score a td!! I know I went off track here, but I'm trying to make a point that Pop shouldn't have gone away from the bigs, at least not totally. Dirk was incredible in this series, but having a big with length might've made some of Nowitski's shots a bit difficult. Also, the
Spurs pride themselves on stopping players from penatrating the lane. A big might've made the shot more difficult. Maybe imploring a zone just to mix things up along with a big might've worked, who knows? Like many of the posters said, I think Pop jumped the gun and really thought he could match up with them better by going small, but the smalls the Spurs have are dependant on the bigs clogging the lanes and getting rebounds. Again, Rasho and Nazi aren't the second coming, but they might've gotten some key rebounds.

You're contradicting yourself in here. Dirk is not a post-up forward...when he went to the basket he started from outside. So you couldn't have a big guarding Dirk and clogging the lanes at the same time.

Look...again...putting Rasho or Nazr on Dirk outside the lane would have been a massacre...Dirk is too quick for either one of them. Leaving either one down low either leaves Dirk open, puts Tim on Dirk, or puts Tim on someone even harder for him to cover. None of the above would have worked.

It's just not that hard a concept to understand.

[Jimcs50]

You have got to be kidding me! OMG, that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum. That's like saying it's Larry Brown's fault that Rasheed left Horry open last year. Or Pop's fault Tim missed his free throw. It's stupid and juvenile. The Spurs lost, for many factors, but Manu's foul is NOT Pop's fault.

Jim, the Mavs are a great team. The sooner you accept that, and accept the fact the Spurs lost a close game in the last seconds, the happier you'll be.

Cause I guarantee you this: Pop will still be coaching next year. Rasho and/or Nazr will be gone. And the Spurs will still be in the playoffs, with a chance to win another Championship.

I am not kidding.

Do you see a difference in saying, "no fouls" and saying, "Let them alone if they get to the rim"?

Had Pop said what my friend and said during the timeout( Let them have 2 points), we would be playing tonight.

[Man In Black]

I didn't have a problem with small-ball, that whole one-bounce, one-call thing looms large.
I thought it might have been a good time to bring in a big off the bench after Manu made that 3. Rebounds=Rings and having that extra big in there at that time would've worked as good as Diop's play late worked for Avery.

[MadDog73]

I am not kidding.

Do you see a difference in saying, "no fouls" and saying, "Let them alone if they get to the rim"?

Had Pop said what my friend and said during the timeout( Let them have 2 points), we would be playing tonight.

Actually, no, I see no difference.

"No fouls" means no fouls to anyone who understands English!

No coach is going to say "Let them have two points. Don't play any defense at all, we'll make our free throws because we're known for that."

[Melmart1]

It is unbelievable the arrogance of Spurs fans. If you think the Spurs are so head and shoulders superior above everyone else in the NBA that they don't have to adjust to other teams, then you don't know jack about the NBA. The Spurs were not exactly dominating teams on the way to the championship last year. And this year, they won a whole lot of close games during the season. Despite 63 wins, they were not running ramshod over the league. Many teams are going towards smaller lineups because of the lack of quality bigs (as evidenced from our roster). If the Spurs can't adjust, they will lose games.

To say this loss is on Pop is not only juvenile finger-pointing at it's finest but also discrediting the Dallas Mavs and imparticular Dirk Nowitzki. Can't you guys just admit he is a force and that the Spurs had no answer for him?! Can't you give the Mavericks some credit for being a damn good team? I don't like admitting it, but it's the truth. I refuse to be in denial about this like so many on this board who blame Pop instead.

The Spurs are one athletic big away from being able to adjust to ANY team in the NBA, including the Mavs. They will take care of this during the offseason and then we come around and try it all again next season.

Until then, I would hope that those who think the Spurs are so damned superior cool their jets. They are a great team but obviously just missing a part or two. They are not going to win every damn year, and anyone who expects them to just doesn't get it. We are seeing the best PF of all time in his prime, and he wears silver and black. He has won us 3 Championships. That's right, little ol San Antonio has three pro sports titles. If you can't enjoy that, then you need to get your head checked. To piss and moan and be mad over what they accomplished this year is missing the point.

[MadDog73]

It is unbelievable the arrogance of Spurs fans. If you think the Spurs are so head and shoulders superior above everyone else in the NBA that they don't have to adjust to other teams, then you don't know jack about the NBA. The Spurs were not exactly dominating teams on the way to the championship last year. And this year, they won a whole lot of close games during the season. Despite 63 wins, they were not running ramshod over the league. Many teams are going towards smaller lineups because of the lack of quality bigs (as evidenced from our roster). If the Spurs can't adjust, they will lose games.

To say this loss is on Pop is not only juvenile finger-pointing at it's finest but also discrediting the Dallas Mavs and imparticular Dirk Nowitzki. Can't you guys just admit he is a force and that the Spurs had no answer for him?! Can't you give the Mavericks some credit for being a damn good team? I don't like admitting it, but it's the truth. I refuse to be in denial about this like so many on this board who blame Pop instead.

The Spurs are one athletic big away from being able to adjust to ANY team in the NBA, including the Mavs. They will take care of this during the offseason and then we come around and try it all again next season.

Until then, I would hope that those who think the Spurs are so damned superior cool their jets. They are a great team but obviously just missing a part or two. They are not going to win every damn year, and anyone who expects them to just doesn't get it. We are seeing the best PF of all time in his prime, and he wears silver and black. He has won us 3 Championships. That's right, little ol San Antonio has three pro sports titles. If you can't enjoy that, then you need to get your head checked. To piss and moan and be mad over what they accomplished this year is missing the point.

:cheer :clap Listen to the truth, Jim. :music

[ShoogarBear]

How do you get from one person saying "Spurs shouldn't have tried to small ball Dallas" to somebody else saying "Spurs fans are arrogent, unappreciative, stupid, need to get your head checked, etc."?

I don't remember ANYBODY claiming before the playoffs started that small ball was written on the wall as the way of the future and the Spurs would have to completely change what they did during the regular season to win 63 games. If someone did, I'd love a link and they will get hella respect from me.

[CosmicCowboy]

It is unbelievable the arrogance of Spurs fans. If you think the Spurs are so head and shoulders superior above everyone else in the NBA that they don't have to adjust to other teams, then you don't know jack about the NBA. The Spurs were not exactly dominating teams on the way to the championship last year. And this year, they won a whole lot of close games during the season. Despite 63 wins, they were not running ramshod over the league. Many teams are going towards smaller lineups because of the lack of quality bigs (as evidenced from our roster). If the Spurs can't adjust, they will lose games.

To say this loss is on Pop is not only juvenile finger-pointing at it's finest but also discrediting the Dallas Mavs and imparticular Dirk Nowitzki. Can't you guys just admit he is a force and that the Spurs had no answer for him?! Can't you give the Mavericks some credit for being a damn good team? I don't like admitting it, but it's the truth. I refuse to be in denial about this like so many on this board who blame Pop instead.

The Spurs are one athletic big away from being able to adjust to ANY team in the NBA, including the Mavs. They will take care of this during the offseason and then we come around and try it all again next season.

Until then, I would hope that those who think the Spurs are so damned superior cool their jets. They are a great team but obviously just missing a part or two. They are not going to win every damn year, and anyone who expects them to just doesn't get it. We are seeing the best PF of all time in his prime, and he wears silver and black. He has won us 3 Championships. That's right, little ol San Antonio has three pro sports titles. If you can't enjoy that, then you need to get your head checked. To piss and moan and be mad over what they accomplished this year is missing the point.

Exactly. Dirk is a freak and Dallas finally built a team around him with the right coach to use his talents. Spurs have nothing to be ashamed of.

[MadDog73]

How do you get from one person saying "Spurs shouldn't have tried to small ball Dallas" to somebody else saying "Spurs fans are arrogent, unappreciative, stupid, need to get your head checked, etc."?

I don't remember ANYBODY claiming before the playoffs started that small ball was written on the wall as the way of the future and the Spurs would have to completely change what they did during the regular season to win 63 games. If someone did, I'd love a link and they will get hella respect from me.


That's not what she is saying at all. She's saying the Mavs are a great team, and the Spurs played great against them, and fans that can't see that need to get "their head checked."

I happen to agree.

[Jimcs50]

That's not what she is saying at all. She's saying the Mavs are a great team, and the Spurs played great against them, and fans that can't see that need to get "their head checked."

I happen to agree.

We made the Mavs an equal team to us. The Spurs were better when they played Spurs bball, that is hard nosed D and rebound the ball on the Defensive glass.

I conceed nothing to Dallas. I blame Pop, and nothing will change my mind.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

We made the Mavs an equal team to us. The Spurs were better when they played Spurs bball, that is hard nosed D and rebound the ball on the Defensive glass.

I conceed nothing to Dallas. I blame Pop, and nothing will change my mind.

I concur.

Anyone who says that experimenting with the bigs wouldn't have worked against Dallas is saying that Dallas is the overall better team. We lost with small ball and a lot of folks are saying we would have lost with, umm, big ball as well.

I'm not ready to conceed that Dallas is the better team either. I think we should have tried some things to create a mismatch or two in our favor.

[Melmart1]

I concur.

I'm not ready to conceed that Dallas is the better team either. I think we should have tried some things to create a mismatch or two in our favor.

Actually, you are nearly conceeding here. Saying that we need to create a mismatch or two "of our own" is implying that Dallas had mismatches that beat us. So basically, you are saying we need to adjust- but not to a smaller lineup? What adjustment would you make then that isn't smaller to create that mismatch in our favor?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Actually, you are nearly conceeding here. Saying that we need to create a mismatch or two "of our own" is implying that Dallas had mismatches that beat us. So basically, you are saying we need to adjust- but not to a smaller lineup? What adjustment would you make then that isn't smaller to create that mismatch in our favor?

Why not play to our strength which is using the double-post set that has earned 3 championships?

Why did we have to change our philosophy only to lose? It seems to me that we had mismatches in our favor going into the series. We had won 7 of our previous 10 meetings with Dallas playing traditional Spurs basketball. The "mismatch" already existed with the Spurs typical style of play and we got away from it. Avery's insertion of Devin Harris and the game 2 blowout won them the series because we unsuccessfully tried to figure out a way to stop them rather than give the Mavs something to have to counter.

Last year against Phoenix we played Duncan on Amare and won. People say that Duncan couldn't guard Dirk, but could Dirk of stopped Duncan at the other end of the floor?

Granted, we came within an inch of winning the series, and hindsight always is 20-20, but I think we made a mistake by leaving our two centers completely out of the equation.

[DarrinS]

Why not play to our strength which is using the double-post set that has earned 3 championships?

Why did we have to change our philosophy only to lose? It seems to me that we had mismatches in our favor going into the series. We had won 7 of our previous 10 meetings with Dallas playing traditional Spurs basketball. The "mismatch" already existed with the Spurs typical style of play and we got away from it. Avery's insertion of Devin Harris and the game 2 blowout won them the series because we unsuccessfully tried to figure out a way to stop them rather than give the Mavs something to have to counter.

Last year against Phoenix we played Duncan on Amare and won. People say that Duncan couldn't guard Dirk, but could Dirk of stopped Duncan at the other end of the floor?

Granted, we came within an inch of winning the series, and hindsight always is 20-20, but I think we made a mistake by leaving our two centers completely out of the equation.


The ONE game in this series that Nazr and Rasho played any significant time was game 2. Well, you know the rest....

[MadDog73]

Allright, Pop haters, you believe that playing Rasho and Nasr would have won the series? Prove it. Because I don't believe you.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Allright, Pop haters, you believe that playing Rasho and Nasr would have won the series? Prove it. Because I don't believe you.


We'll never know, will we.

But we do know that small-ball can lose a series. That we did learn pretty well I think.

[Melmart1]

Why not play to our strength which is using the double-post set that has earned 3 championships?

Why did we have to change our philosophy only to lose? It seems to me that we had mismatches in our favor going into the series. We had won 7 of our previous 10 meetings with Dallas playing traditional Spurs basketball. The "mismatch" already existed with the Spurs typical style of play and we got away from it. Avery's insertion of Devin Harris and the game 2 blowout won them the series because we unsuccessfully tried to figure out a way to stop them rather than give the Mavs something to have to counter.

Last year against Phoenix we played Duncan on Amare and won. People say that Duncan couldn't guard Dirk, but could Dirk of stopped Duncan at the other end of the floor?

Granted, we came within an inch of winning the series, and hindsight always is 20-20, but I think we made a mistake by leaving our two centers completely out of the equation.

Duncan can't guard Dirk. Not only is he not fast enough, but it gets him in foul trouble. Game 6 he played all of 11 minutes in the first half cus he got three quick fouls- all by guarding Dirk.

Nazr on defense is a joke. People would have blown past him, and since he tends to commmit stupid, ticky-tack fouls there would have been plenty of and-1's. Also, he is a turnover machine with those hands on the other end. Rasho is an excellent defender but much too slow to guard the paint against the small, quick guards of the Mavs. They would have scored just as much on Rasho. Problem is, the offensive would have suffered because with Rasho in you basically only have four scorers on the floor. With games being decided by a few points, that could have been deadly.

I am not saying the Spurs should become a small-ball team. I am saying they need pieces to adjust when a team throws that lineup at them. They need more flexbility. To suggest that they are a juggernaut that everyone else should adjust to and have no flexibility whatsoever is not only arrogant, it's competetive suicide. If we get the right pieces this summer, next year we can bamboozle them and make them adjust to us. The Mavs are not going away, and if we don't have versatility, we may not beat them next year, either.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

BTW, wanting Pop to not settle in and try the same thing over and over again in a series when it's not working, or isn't working well, doesn't make you a Pop hater. Asking Pop to mix it up rather than keep with a game plan that hasn't been working and to perhaps play to one of our team's advantages isn't hating on Pop.

It's insanity, literally, to do the same thing, over and over again, and expect a different result. . .much like my posts in this thread.

[DarrinS]

Allright, Pop haters, you believe that playing Rasho and Nasr would have won the series? Prove it. Because I don't believe you.


I think Pop has the 5th best playoff winning percentage (0.627). Not too shabby. But I guess people on these boards know better. :rolleyes

[DarrinS]

BTW, wanting Pop to not settle in and try the same thing over and over again in a series when it's not working, or isn't working well, doesn't make you a Pop hater. Asking Pop to mix it up rather than keep with a game plan that hasn't been working and to perhaps play to one of our team's advantages isn't hating on Pop.

It's insanity, literally, to do the same thing, over and over again, and expect a different result. . .much like my posts in this thread.


He played Nazr in game 2, the only game that wasn't close.

[MadDog73]

We'll never know, will we.

But we do know that small-ball can lose a series. That we did learn pretty well I think.


As I said, we went to Game 7 with a damn good chance to win it.

I, (unlike Jim), blame some crappy plays at the end rather than coach Pop.

I'll say it once, and I'll keep repeating: I'll take a guaranteed shot at winning versus the total unknown.

Ed, we won game 5 and 6. Do you not want to repeat that in Game 7?

Why change then?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

To suggest that they are a juggernaut that everyone else should adjust to and have no flexibility whatsoever is not only arrogant, it's competetive suicide. If we get the right pieces this summer, next year we can bamboozle them and make them adjust to us. The Mavs are not going away, and if we don't have versatility, we may not beat them next year, either.

The Spurs will definitely need to get a long, athletic 3, as well as a versatile 4, but that's been the case for the last 3 years.

If "competitive suicide" is getting ousted in the second round of the playoffs then I think we succeeded.

My complaint is that we didn't experiment with enough adjustments to turn the series in our favor. There very well could have been opportunities to play our bigs. . .but we'll never know. However, maybe you're right. Maybe we're just not as good as Dallas and nothing we could have done would have changed that. I'll go ahead and accept the fact that inserting Devin Harris into the Mavericks starting lineup was enough to make the Mavs the superior team.

[MoSpur]

I think people (Spurs fans) were in shock when the Spurs went small. Spurs fans had probably never seen this by the Spurs. They were use to seeing two seven footers clogging the lane and blocking shots and rebounding. The Spurs certainly didn't have that in this series.

Spurs fans were always told defense wins this and that. All of sudden you don't see that because of the small ball, but Pop did what he felt gave the Spurs the best chance to win. The Mavs lineup would have presented problems even with Nazr or Rasho in the lineup.

I just wanted to see the Spurs try a zone defense with two bigs at least once during that series. Oh well.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

As I said, we went to Game 7 with a damn good chance to win it.

I, (unlike Jim), blame some crappy plays at the end rather than coach Pop.

I'll say it once, and I'll keep repeating: I'll take a guaranteed shot at winning versus the total unknown.

Ed, we won game 5 and 6. Do you not want to repeat that in Game 7?

Why change then?

I remember against the Suns last year that Nazr had some pretty decent games for us. Sure he gave up some points, but he also was a presence under the basket and could rebound the ball.

Horry wasn't giving us anything against the Mavs that Nazr couldn't have provided. We got killed on the glass, and I would have liked to have seen how someone like him could have performed.

I think Pop is the greatest coach the Spurs have ever had. I hope he coaches the Spurs forever. I just wish we'd of tried to have more of a post presence than we did against the Mavs.

[Jimcs50]

I think Pop has the 5th best playoff winning percentage (0.627). Not too shabby. But I guess people on these boards know better. :rolleyes


Um, that is with two 7 footers. He is 3-4 w/o twin towers and small ball.

[MadDog73]

Bottom line, it worked in Game 5 and 6, and almost worked in Game 7.

If we play Nazr for 20 minutes in Game 7, and lose by 20, how is that an improvement?

[strangeweather]

Um, that is with two 7 footers. He is 3-4 w/o twin towers and small ball.

Let me rephrase this for you: Pop won the last two titles when he had 2 7-footers that could actually play. He lost the last two when our starting center sucked.

Clearly, that's poor coaching.

[DarrinS]

Um, that is with two 7 footers. He is 3-4 w/o twin towers and small ball.


Would have been a short series with Nazr or Frankenstein in there. Trust me.

[DarrinS]

Um, that is with two 7 footers. He is 3-4 w/o twin towers and small ball.


As much as you want to believe it, Nazr is not David Robinson or Hakeem Olajuwon.

[strangeweather]

As much as you want to believe it, Nazr is not David Robinson or Hakeem Olajuwon.

A real coach could have shut Dirk down with the decaying remains of Greg Ostertag. :rolleyes

[DarrinS]

A real coach could have shut Dirk down with the decaying remains of Greg Ostertag. :rolleyes

:rollin


Sean Marks would have owned Dirk. LOL.

[blaze89]

If "competitive suicide" is getting ousted in the second round of the playoffs then I think we succeeded.

We got "ousted"? When I think of "ousted" I think of games 3 & 4 of the 2001 Western Conference Finals.

With the exception of game 2 - where fatigue truly sat in - none of the games were blowouts, 2 OT games and games in which they went to the final minute - everyone is thinking the games were blowouts. The Spurs came back from double-digit deficits, came back from 3-1 to force a game 7 and in game 7 came back from 20 points down. Where was Rasho and Nazr during that time?

As far as Spurs not playing "Spurs bball", what do Rasho and Nazr do in playing against Dallas' small lineup? Stop pentration and only to have the ball passed to an outside threat? If Dallas didn't have outside threats, it might have worked. Who do Rasho and Nazr guard? Diop or Dampier so that puts Duncan on Howard - who was around the perimeter, away from the basket when I saw him or on Nowitski in which Duncan would have 3 fouls by the end of the 1st quarter.

Dallas has four (especially with Jason Terry creating space for Harris) players who can score in this series (not the regular season) against the Spurs three scorers - Bowen rarely provides offense and we've never seen Rasho or Nazr carry the offensive load.

As far as experimenting, I truly think it would have blown up in the Spurs faces had they tried to experiement, Dallas would have just gotten smaller, as they had done later in the series. By going smaller and forcing the Spurs bigs out of the rotation, bench production dipped cause Finley became a starter and Horry was out of his element.

[MoSpur]

I think Pop has thought, "what if" when it comes to playing two bigs. I am not saying he regrets it, but sure he wonders.

[blaze89]

I think Pop has thought, "what if" when it comes to playing two bigs. I am not saying he regrets it, but sure he wonders.

I'm sure he thought about prior to the series, talked about the idea and so on. It probably didn't look pretty.

[MadDog73]

I think Pop has thought, "what if" when it comes to playing two bigs. I am not saying he regrets it, but sure he wonders.


I don't know. A reported asked him this very question early in the series, and Pop was pretty caustic in his reply, basically saying, "Oh, thanks for suggesting that. Leave us your card, if we have an opening, we'll call you."

[cherylsteele]

Allright, Pop haters, you believe that playing Rasho and Nasr would have won the series? Prove it. Because I don't believe you.
How about proving small ball wouls have won this series?
Can't can you?
We were woefully outrebounded especially and you are telling having Rasho in there would never have helped?
How do you know he would not have help in the rebounding....getting defensive rebounds is a huge part of our defense.
The Mavs were getting to the rim almost at will with our small ball...at least try to have another big in there to at least give the Mavs something to think about when they drove the lane.

Pop neede dto make AJ adjust to us....not the other way aound....if Pop needed to adjust...do it during a game.

[MadDog73]

How about proving small ball wouls have won this series?
Can't can you?


Sure I can. It won game 5 and 6 and gave us a three point lead with 30 seconds, and the last possession of the game with a chance to win.

I'll take a guaranteed shot at winning versus a 20 point loss any day of the week.

Or, do you think Nasr would have won game 7 for us? Really?

[DarrinS]

How about proving small ball wouls have won this series?
Can't can you?
We were woefully outrebounded especially and you are telling having Rasho in there would never have helped?
How do you know he would not have help in the rebounding....getting defensive rebounds is a huge part of our defense.
The Mavs were getting to the rim almost at will with our small ball...at least try to have another big in there to at least give the Mavs something to think about when they drove the lane.

Pop neede dto make AJ adjust to us....not the other way aound....if Pop needed to adjust...do it during a game.


Rasho would have definitely helped all those "nothing but net" shots the Mavs were making at an almost 80% clip. :rolleyes

[blaze89]

Who would have Rasho guarded? Diop/Dampier that would have put Duncan against Howard or Nowitski whom both were out in the perimeter.

If the Mavs were hesitant to drive the lane, they have the outside shooting in Terry, Nowitski and Stackhouse to spread the defense.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

It's going to be a long summer...

this thread could pass the quattro eventually...:lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think the Spurs were in these games "in-spite" of some of the rotations.

We made the 20 point comeback thanks primarily to Tim and Manu putting the team on their back in the second half, not because we were playing small ball.

I could argue that the Mavs wouldn't have shot 69% from the floor that first half if we weren't playing small. I could argue that we'd of had more than 9 first half rebounds if we weren't playing small. I could argue there would have never been a need for a second half comeback if we weren't playing small.

We could look at this thing forever, but the truth is that we'll never know the answer because we never tried playing big.

For those who say we lost game two because we played our bigs. . .is that why we won game 1 by 30 against Sacramento? That was the last game that Nazr really saw the floor. I could argue we'd of won every playoff game by 30 points using that logic.

[cherylsteele]

Rasho would have definitely helped all those "nothing but net" shots the Mavs were making at an almost 80% clip. :rolleyes
True...but I am positive if you shut down the middle....those shots don't fall as readily. Those outside shots has a better chance of going in because the guards had to back off because the help down wasn't there like it had been the last several seasons. They made way too many layups.
You shut down the lane and they become more of a Milwaukee bucks type of offense....more jump shots than layups.
You live by the 3....you die by the 3.

[travis2]

How about proving small ball wouls have won this series?
Can't can you?
We were woefully outrebounded especially and you are telling having Rasho in there would never have helped?
How do you know he would not have help in the rebounding....getting defensive rebounds is a huge part of our defense.
The Mavs were getting to the rim almost at will with our small ball...at least try to have another big in there to at least give the Mavs something to think about when they drove the lane.

Pop neede dto make AJ adjust to us....not the other way aound....if Pop needed to adjust...do it during a game.

Fine, damnit. Suggest a lineup that hasn't already been shown to be insufficient.

We'll wait.

[blaze89]

True...but I am positive if you shut down the middle....those shots don't fall as readily. Those outside shots has a better chance of going in because the guards had to back off because the help down wasn't there like it had been the last several seasons. They made way too many layups.
You shut down the lane and they become more of a Milwaukee bucks type of offense....more jump shots than layups.
You live by the 3....you die by the 3.

That would have been great but Terry and Nowitski, especially Nowitski, were hitting everything they put up. The Mavs were not afraid of jump shots.

[travis2]

I think the Spurs were in these games "in-spite" of some of the rotations.

We made the 20 point comeback thanks primarily to Tim and Manu putting the team on their back in the second half, not because we were playing small ball.

I could argue that the Mavs wouldn't have shot 69% from the floor that first half if we weren't playing small. I could argue that we'd of had more than 9 first half rebounds if we weren't playing small. I could argue there would have never been a need for a second half comeback if we weren't playing small.

We could look at this thing forever, but the truth is that we'll never know the answer because we never tried playing big.

For those who say we lost game two because we played our bigs. . .is that why we won game 1 by 30 against Sacramento? That was the last game that Nazr really saw the floor. I could argue we'd of won every playoff game by 30 points using that logic.

You too. Go ahead. Post a lineup that hasn't already been shot down.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This is one of those arguments that will never be settled because there's no real basis for comparison in the series. The game 2 blowout was more about the team being exhausted and taking the night off than the rotations. We never saw a center after that.

The Mavs fully exposed the Spurs need to get more athletic in the front-court so now we'll see what moves are made this off season.

[romsho]

I just wanted to see the Spurs try a zone defense with two bigs at least once during that series. Oh well.
Yeah. Me too.

[Jimcs50]

You too. Go ahead. Post a lineup that hasn't already been shot down.

Same lineup as last year, only with Finley instead of GRob

[travis2]

Same lineup as last year, only with Finley instead of GRob

And who do they guard? And don't give me that crap about Duncan taking Howard. I already shot that down (which you didn't even read, evidently).

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You too. Go ahead. Post a lineup that hasn't already been shot down.

I already did, my friend. And again, there's no real basis to judge whether it could/would/should have worked because we never did juggle the lineup enough. So, in essence there's nothing concrete to shoot down.

I can't get shot down by someone's opinion. . .had the Spurs seriously changed looks at all during the series there'd be lots of opportunity to debate what worked and what didn't.

What we do know is that small ball didn't work.

Had the Spurs played big and lost in 5 games without trying to play small I'd be in here saying why the heck didn't Pop try a small lineup.

It's not that I care that we went small, it's that AJ toyed with his lineup and won the series. He went on the offensive and took it to us and won. The Spurs played outside their comfort zone and lost. Were it not for the heroics of Tim and Manu we'd of likely lost this one in five games, and that's what was disappointing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The ONE game in this series that Nazr and Rasho played any significant time was game 2. Well, you know the rest....

And at the time when the first of them came in (Nazr), the Spurs were already down 16. Kind of a weak metric, don't you think?


Let me rephrase this for you: Pop won the last two titles when he had 2 7-footers that could actually play. He lost the last two when our starting center sucked.

Clearly, that's poor coaching.

Let me rephrase this for you. We had the same seven footer starting that 'could play' last time we won a title (Nazr) as we did at the end of this season. Which is it? You say we lost the last two where our starting center sucked, but won the last two where he was decent. Well, Nazr won it last year (which is clearly one of the last two we won), but you're trying to say he sucked this year.

Clearly, you're a fucking idiot.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And who do they guard? And don't give me that crap about Duncan taking Howard. I already shot that down (which you didn't even read, evidently).

Duncan could have done what he did with Amare last year - let the guy get 40, stay out of his way and don't foul when he's in the lane, and the Spurs win the series going away.

You remember that series right? The one where we played Nazr and Tim vs. small ball and won going away? Evidently you didn't even watch that one.

[strangeweather]

Let me rephrase this for you. We had the same seven footer starting that 'could play' last time we won a title (Nazr) as we did at the end of this season. Which is it? You say we lost the last two where our starting center sucked, but won the last two where he was decent. Well, Nazr won it last year (which is clearly one of the last two we won), but you're trying to say he sucked this year.

Clearly, you're a fucking idiot.

Yes, I am indeed trying to say Nazr sucked this year. He regressed significantly, his defense wasn't as good, and he made many more crucial, gutwrenching mistakes.

Why exactly does that make me "a fucking idiot"?

[strangeweather]

Duncan could have done what he did with Amare last year - let the guy get 40, stay out of his way and don't foul when he's in the lane, and the Spurs win the series going away.
After all, anyone who has seen them knows that Amare and Dirk have pretty much the same game. :rolleyes


You remember that series right? The one where we played Nazr and Tim vs. small ball and won going away? Evidently you didn't even watch that one.
The one where we "beat them in *6 games*"?

[EVAY]

Pop went with Small ball cause in the 2nd game he got torched like a Roman candle in a hot ashes.......

Trust me, he saw the film and realized pretty quickly that Nazr, Duncan, nor Rasho could handle Dirk or Howard on the defensive end. The thing that he didn't count on in the end was that none of his guys could handle Dirk on the defensive end.

You have to realize what Dallas was doing in game 2 to see what Pop had to do. Dallas primarily runs 2 plays for most of the game, the high pick, or a Dirk Iso at the top of the key. That's all they pretty much run I'd say %80 of the time. Pop knew that's what they were going to do by game 2, but the way they ran with Harris vs Griffin wasn't stoppable with Rasho in the game. Dirk would pick for Terry or Harris Nazr switched, now you have Parker on Dirk and Bowen on Terry or Harris doesn't sound bad yet does it. Now in the switch the guard has time to get in the key just slightly sucking in the Defense and now Terry or Harris can go to the wing to Howard or Stackhouse who is either gaurded by Nazr, Duncan, or Rasho, but if for some reason that mismatch isn't available he just dumps it back to Dirk and Dirk drains the jumper from the top of the key or if the Spurs bring a double he kicks to a guard who is being guarded now by a big. That guard can now shoot over the big or drive to the hole now guarded by a bunch of guards....

Pop had no choice really, Dirk is the ultimate defensive killer, he's simply like no other player to ever play the game. He's an above average shooting guard that happens to be 7' tall and can rebound as well as just about anyone in the league. Dirk's offensive skill set is so amazing but dare I say even if he were 6'5" he'd still be a starting guard in the NBA.

BTW, the Mavs never really played "small ball", our lineup primarily was 2 7 footers, 2 guards, and a lengthy small forward.


This is actually quite true, and one of the reasons I never understood Pop's lineup. It was not that the mavs played four smalls with Dirk, they played 3 smalls and a "center-type" (Dampier or Diop). So the Mavs defense could do what the spurs used to be able to do, i.e. send shooters down the baseline to get their shot blocked. We have played that style of defense since the David Robinson era, and now in this series the Spurs had no one block the shots once the guys got to the rim.


This, to me, was the real crux of the matchup problem with the mavs. We played the same excellent defense on the perimeter that we always have, but we could never get stops at the rim. Most of this I attribute to Horry not wanting to play the assignment he was given, and to Avery sending their guards toward Duncan, who kept getting fouls on the quicker guys...so Duncan couldn't stop them...Horry couldn't or wouldn't, and so it looked like they were terrific on offense because we couldn't stop them. I don't think that's the problem of the players....that's the problem of the coaching staff.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

After all, anyone who has seen them knows that Amare and Dirk have pretty much the same game.

The point was that you let Dirk get his and worry about the rest of the Mavs, much like we let Amare get his last year and shut down the other Suns.

I'm sorry this is so hard for you. Dirk averaged 30 a game, but set up his teammates due to all our gay ass double teaming out of small ball, and won.

Amare averaged 40 a game, but was a black hole on offense for his team - whenever it went to him, it never came back out, and his team was done playing in 6 games.

[strangeweather]

The point was that you let Dirk get his and worry about the rest of the Mavs, much like we let Amare get his last year and shut down the other Suns.

I'm sorry this is so hard for you. Dirk averaged 30 a game, but set up his teammates due to all our gay ass double teaming out of small ball, and won.

So sending Tim out away from the paint to let Dirk shoot easy 3s over him is the answer?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

One, Dirk was very rarely shooting threes.

Two, like I said - let Dirk get 40 a game and lock down the damn paint. I think Devin Harris scored every point of his in this series in the paint.

**** 25 offensive rebounds with three of the four Mavs wins coming by less than 8 points****

That's why you have to protect the paint. Do you even understand what the paint is? What offensive rebounds and second chance points are?

[strangeweather]

One, Dirk was very rarely shooting threes.

And you don't think that putting Tim on him would have given him a pretty strong incentive to move out to the perimeter and shoot some?


That's why you have to protect the paint. Do you even understand what the paint is? What offensive rebounds and second chance points are?

Yes, and if we move Tim out to the perimeter, for the life of me, I can't see how that improves our defense in the paint or our ability to pull down rebounds.

[ploto]

The ONE game in this series that Nazr and Rasho played any significant time was game 2. Well, you know the rest....

Just for the record, Pop never tried Rasho in game 2. He gave that opportunity to Nazr because Nazr is believed to be the better match-up for Dallas. Rasho came in with less than 4 minutes to go in that game.

Rasho played his most minutes in game 1, which we won and in which we played the least small ball, but when Griffin was moved out of the line-up, we no longer had someone to hide a mismatched defender on.

[duncan2k5]

some of you have terrible basketball IQ. we have been winning OUR way ever since duncan came in the league. the mave our rebounded us by a very large margin...many of them were offensive. judging by the margin we lost the games by, getting defensive rebounds would have taken away some of those point. they got a lot of points in the paint because they attacked. there was even a timeout where avery reminded them to attack the rim because we have no shotblockers. i would like with josh howard taking a 3 as opposed to taking tony parker down low for an easy 2.

rasho had good defense. i would put tim duncan or rasho on dirk. ppl keep saying timmy would get in foul trouble...guess what? the only reason he was picking up those fould was help defense when dirk took our lil guys down low. timmy is a perennial all defensive player. quit acting like dirk is f*cking larry bord or some shyt. dirk was either taking our lil guys down low, or shooting over them. he cant shoot over tim duncan, and if he drives past him, there is rasho at the rim who is a good shotblocker. plus with rasho in the game, all the guard penetration would be turning into jumpshots.


even if you dont want timmy to guard dirk, like someone said he can guard josh howard. timmy guarded him before in the season when we played them and we won. and that was the injured timmy. tim wont play him tight because he isnt a good shooter. timmy would play off howard, so even if he drives to the bucket...a shotblocker...thats spurs basketball. then we would get more rebounds, more posessions, and more points. thats smart basketball.

[duncan2k5]

and another thing. some of you bring up the point that we were in the games...it shouldnt be like that. we are the better team. we shouldnt be trying to keep up with them. and just because we were int he games playing small ball, doesnt mean thats the best option. its like playing the pistons without tim duncan and winning/losing a close game. you cant say "we were in the game, so we need to continue to do this" just because you were close. if we played like we always played for the past few years, we win this series in 6. thats all im saying

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yes, and if we move Tim out to the perimeter, for the life of me, I can't see how that improves our defense in the paint or our ability to pull down rebounds.

Who says Tim would have been out on the perimeter with Dirk?

[wauk]

You beat a team like Dallas with physical play. Dirk is soft, pound him over and over again and he will quit. This was not done to him. The Eastern Conference champ (whichever it is) will grind either Dallas or PHX into powder. Series will be 6 games max. Never allow the opponent to dictate to you always dictate to your opponent.

[strangeweather]

Who says Tim would have been out on the perimeter with Dirk?

Well, you said you were going to put him on Dirk. Either Tim goes out there to cover him, or Dirk is shooting completely uncontested jumpers. Letting Dirk take jumpshot practice completely unguarded all night is an even dumber idea than sending Duncan out to the perimeter.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, you said you were going to put him on Dirk.

I'd have Rasho or Nazr on the guy most of the time, actually, and let Tim help on defense from the weakside.

[strangeweather]

I'd have Rasho or Nazr on the guy most of the time, actually, and let Tim help on defense from the weakside.

Okay, so you have added a center to provide better rebounding and help defense inside, but the poor bastard isn't inside to do any of those things -- he's out on the perimeter guarding Dirk.

Again, unless you're leaving Dirk wide open.

[boutons_]

Small ball: Game1 WCF points in the paint: Mavs 74 vs Suns 72.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Okay, so you have added a center to provide better rebounding and help defense inside, but the poor bastard isn't inside to do any of those things -- he's out on the perimeter guarding Dirk.

Again, unless you're leaving Dirk wide open.

Do you really think Avery would have had Dirk going outside on every single play? Quit being so dense.

[strangeweather]

Do you really think Avery would have had Dirk going outside on every single play? Quit being so dense.

If he has a man on him that can't possibly cover him outside, why wouldn't he?

If Dallas put Devin Harris on Duncan, wouldn't you pretty much post him up all night long?

Basketball 101: if you have a completely ridiculous matchup, exploit it until you've buried your opponent.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If he has a man on him that can't possibly cover him outside, why wouldn't he?

Because the outside jumper isn't as reliable as the shot in the paint.

[strangeweather]

Because the outside jumper isn't as reliable as the shot in the paint.

If it's a total mismatch, the outside jumper is pretty reliable.

Plus, if Dirk pulls the supposed help defender out to the perimeter, he opens up the paint for Harris, Howard, and everyone else.

So, let's summarize what we have here:

1. Dirk getting easy jumpers because he has a lousy defender on him.

2. The trip to the basket isn't any harder for anyone else, because even with a center, there still isn't another help defender.

3. The center isn't in position to grab rebounds, because he's covering Dirk.

4. We've replaced a guy who can shoot with a center that has no real offensive game, and giftwrapped Dallas's ability to use Dirk as a help defender in the paint.

How is this a big win for us?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Plus, if Dirk pulls the supposed help defender out to the perimeter, he opens up the paint for Harris, Howard, and everyone else.

I don't even know how many times in this thread I have said that they would let dirk get his (like Amare last year), and close the lane down on the rest of 'em.

So let's summarize what we have here:

You think our small ball defense was brilliant. We lost the series 4-3.

I think our small ball defense sucks, and the personnel management last year won us a ring.

Thanks for playing. I'm tired of the stupid ass circular discussion, you can scream you're right all you want, I can do the same, but in the end it gets us no where.

All I know is that Pop got beat in this series, and he was too chickenshit to even try anything different to change the flow of the series, which was all Mavs.

[strangeweather]

I don't even know how many times in this thread I have said that they would let dirk get his (like Amare last year), and close the lane down on the rest of 'em.

Okay, so you leave the help defender in the lane, and you leave Dirk completely open on the perimeter.

Letting Dirk "get his" is not the same thing as not even defending him. He could drop 100 (or more) on us if we just leave him open all night.

That is just brilliant basketball strategy.

[BgT]

If it's a total mismatch, the outside jumper is pretty reliable.

Plus, if Dirk pulls the supposed help defender out to the perimeter, he opens up the paint for Harris, Howard, and everyone else.

So, let's summarize what we have here:

1. Dirk getting easy jumpers because he has a lousy defender on him.

2. The trip to the basket isn't any harder for anyone else, because even with a center, there still isn't another help defender.

3. The center isn't in position to grab rebounds, because he's covering Dirk.

4. We've replaced a guy who can shoot with a center that has no real offensive game, and giftwrapped Dallas's ability to use Dirk as a help defender in the paint.

How is this a big win for us?
Pop, is that you? I knew you sound familiar. You've come to the right place to get some feedback about what went wrong in the series, but try to LEARN from your mistakes. You can't persuade anyone that you were right, because you are trying to do that from a fishing boat. Everybody makes mistakes, only smart people learn from them. Ok? Ok.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Letting Dirk "get his" is not the same thing as not even defending him. He could drop 100 (or more) on us if we just leave him open all night.

That is just brilliant basketball strategy.

:lmao You really think Dirk would take 100 shots in a game? Because that's about the clip he'd have to shoot to hit 100 points.

Or are you saying the guy is going to become an 80% shooter from three? Either way, that's some good pot you're smoking.

[strangeweather]

:lmao You really think Dirk would take 100 shots in a game? Because that's about the clip he'd have to shoot to hit 100 points.

Or are you saying the guy is going to become an 80% shooter from three? Either way, that's some good pot you're smoking.

Any decent long-ball shooter in the NBA could shoot 70% or better from outside if no one ever covered them.

Your plan is equivalent to saying: "Okay, we're not going to put anyone at all on Randy Moss, but we're going to shut down everyone else. He can't really catch all that many balls with no one covering him, can he?"

You've called me an idiot several times in this thread, but you are a complete and irredeemable idiot if you think that the answer to beating the Mavs is to take an MVP-candidate jumpshooter and leave him fucking open all night.