Be Healed!!!

[Yonivore]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041009/capt.mico10210090042.edwards__mico102.jpg

"I SAY-YED, BE HEALED!!!"

"When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk. Get up out of that wheelchair and walk again"
What a fucking idiot.

[Duff McCartney]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041009/capt.mico10210090042.edwards__mico102.jpg

"I SAY-YED, BE HEALED!!!"

What a fucking idiot.

When did he say this?

[NeoConIV]

Are you sure John isn't channeling there? Looks like he's speaking for someone beyond the grave...

[Marcus Bryant]

"When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk. Get up out of that wheelchair and walk again"

ALLELUIA.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Duff,

He said it at a campaign rally yesterday. I guess news travels slow when you have your head up your ass.

[CrazyOne]

Hey, take it easy on the kid... I just heard about it a couple minutes ago...

But, hey, if this guy doesn't get elected, he could go on tour with Benny Hinn... once he buys the obligatory white suit.

[SpursWoman]

Why do I have this sudden urge to whip out my checkbook? :wtf

[xrayzebra]

Ant it a hoot. The medicine man mentality is finally showing up.
Believe brother and you shall be healed. If either Kerry or Edwards
ever told the truth their ears tongue would fall off. But the scary
thing is so many people believe their crap. :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.drudgereport.com/


Edwards: 'We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases... When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.' Edwards made the unprecedented campaign promises during 30-minute speech at Newton High School gym in Newton, Iowa...


Pathetic.

Simply pathetic.

[timvp]

Edwards: 'We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases... When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.' Edwards made the unprecedented campaign promises during 30-minute speech at Newton High School gym in Newton, Iowa...

Humanity has hit an all-time new low.

[Hook Dem]

"But, hey, if this guy doesn't get elected, he could go on tour with Benny Hinn... once he buys the obligatory white suit." ..........................Just don't get any ketchup on it! :lol

[Yonivore]

I can hear the wheels flying off the Kerrwards campaign right now...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn, that's pathetic (Edwards quote). How can anyone want an asshat like this anywhere near the WH?

[exstatic]

Are any of those things likely to happen without stem cell research? Saying that they will happen is a stretch. They may or may not happen. They won't happen without stem cell research.

Other countries are going to do this, and beat us to the patents. We'll become a technology backwater, all in the name of religion. Hope that makes you happy, when you have to get in line to get the traitement du Alzheimers, all profits flowing to France or the tratamiento para Parkinsons, cash to Madrid.

[Marcus Bryant]

So stem cell research is not occurring? That's a new one.

[Hook Dem]

Thaaaaaaank ya Jeeeeeeeeysus! :lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

We'll become a technology backwater, all in the name of religion. Hope that makes you happy,

My my, someone's bitter.

[exstatic]

On a restricted number of cell lines (72), ALL other closed off. Yeah, lets investigate part of the cures.


Research using stem cells had been authorized in Britain, but was initially halted in the U.S. by President George W. Bush. He decided on 2001-AUG-9 to allow research to resume in government labs, but restricted researchers to use only 72 existing lines of stem cells. By 2003-MAY, most of these lines had become useless; some of the lines are genetically identical to others; only 11 remain available for research. Research continues in U.S. private labs and in both government and private labs in the UK, Japan, France, Australia, and other countries. On 2002-SEP, Governor Davis of California signed bill SB 253 into law. It is the first law in the U.S. that permits stem cell research. Davis simultaneously signed a bill that permanently bans all human cloning in the state for reproduction purposes -- i.e. any effort to create a cloned individual.
Following former president Ronald Reagan's death due to Alzheimer's in 2004-JUN -- a slow, lingering death that took a decade to kill him, Nancy Reagan and all of her family, except for Michael Reagan, have mounted a campaign to encourage President Bush to relax restrictions on embryo stem cell research. Fifty-eight senators, almost all Democrats, sent a letter to President Bush, urging the same action.

stem cell article (http://www.religioustolerance.org/res_stem.htm)

[Marcus Bryant]

That's only embryonic stem cell research, not all.

[exstatic]

From the same article:

Stem cells can also be extracted from adult tissue, without harm to the subject. Unfortunately, they are difficult to remove, are severely limited in quantity, and appear to be limited in usefulness.

[Marcus Bryant]

So adult stem cells are ineffective.

[exstatic]

Pretty much. As adult cells go, they are generic, but they are more specific than embryonic stem cells, and are less useful. That's why cord blood/placental blood are more effective in bone marrow transplants than adult marrow donations. They work a higher percentage of the time because they reject less often, due to their genericness. Early embryonic cells are even more generic and effective.

[Marcus Bryant]

Great. Let's go rip up some embryos and get those stem cells.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't believe even Superman was arguing that embryonic stem cells would lead to a miracle cure, but might have some "therapeutic" benefits.

[exstatic]

Plenty of frozen ones that will never be implanted...

[exstatic]

http://www.rand.org/publications/RB/RB9038/

[Marcus Bryant]

So basically it is unknown what benefits embryonic stem cells could provide, yet some are already claiming such research will lead to miracle cures, perhaps within the next 10 years?

Um ok.

[exstatic]

We won't know without the research. You would prefer to remain in the dark, even when one of these maladies may strike someone in your family?

[Uncle Donnie]

Whether you are for or against stem cell research, there's no defending Edwards' remarks. Giving empty promises to people desparate for any kind of hope is fucking low, plain and simple. He's in no position to make those kinds of promises, stem cell research not withstanding.

[exstatic]

He politicised the facts. He's not the first to ever do so. The research should still be allowed.

[Yonivore]

He politicised the facts. He's not the first to ever do so. The research should still be allowed.
No one is stopping the research. The federal government isn't even banning embryonic stem cell research. They are merely withholding federal funds -- my tax dollars -- from being used for embryonic stem cell research.

Go ahead, start your own research firm and study them to your heart's content.

Also, there's absolutely no evidence that embryonic stem cells are any more valuable for the cure of Edward's list of diseases and afflictions than are adult stem cells.

In fact, researchers will readily admit, if you read beyond the rhetoric, that there is much more study required on embryonic stem cells, generally, before they can determine if they are indeed useful for more than are adult stem cells.

[Marcus Bryant]

We won't know without the research.

The research using the adult stem cells hasn't yielded much. Neither have the embryonic cells which have been utilized so far.

Say someone is in need of a major organ transplant. Would they be justified in having another killed for the organ they need?

I agree with UD. Edwards' comment is unseemly, to say the least.

[Uncle Donnie]

He politicised the facts.

Facts? Hardly. Stem cell research, funded or not, is nowhere near the point to be telling someone in a wheel chair they'll be walking anytime soon. Again, whether you support federal funding for the research or not, what Edwards said is bordering on vile.

[travis2]

Plenty of frozen ones that will never be implanted...

Sure, and there are plenty of criminals on death row we can use for medical experimentation too. And after we run out of them, I'm sure you and your wife can supply some fetuses on government command for experimentation.

Any other groups I've missed? Any Christian groups you don't like and wouldn't mind seeing killed back a bit? Jews? Muslims?

It's all the same thing.

You, NBAJoeStalin and Johnny TheNazi all have one thing in common...you have the ethics of Stalin.

[Samurai Jane]

Just another sad example of saying whatever it takes to be elected. Disgusting..

BTW, I heard that GWB was the first president to even allow partial funding for this area of research. Any validity in that? Also that there have been instances of cancer developing in those that were injected with stem cells.

I'm not going to get into the philosophical discussion on this one.. everyone here knows my stance on this.

[Hook Dem]

Typical lawyer response...""ol Chris will get right up out of that wheelchair and walk again just as soon as Kerry is elected." "Be healed and send your dollars to......." :lol

[exstatic]

trav - You know how the frozen embryo thing works, right? They usually do several dozen for a couple, because, just as in nature, not all of them become viable. No couple wants several dozen kids. Some of these couples have designated their frozen embryos for research, but they can't be used now. Should we just throw them away? Leave them frozen? Force the couple to bring each and every one of them to term? What's your answer, other than putting the kibosh on anyone else's proposal?

[Marcus Bryant]

You know how death row works, right? Why wait for years while the condemned sit around full of organs that could save a life? Take 'em out back, wring their necks, and let's save some lives. Hell, they have taken life. It's time they give it back.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why stop with stem cells? The elderly are a drag on our society. They are sucking up resources which could go to fund research which could save lives. Maybe you are happy keeping the old bastards alive but I say let's not let religion get in the way of progress.

[travis2]

trav - You know how the frozen embryo thing works, right? They usually do several dozen for a couple, because, just as in nature, not all of them become viable. No couple wants several dozen kids. Some of these couples have designated their frozen embryos for research, but they can't be used now. Should we just throw them away? Leave them frozen? Force the couple to bring each and every one of them to term? What's your answer, other than putting the kibosh on anyone else's proposal?

Mark, it hasn't been made illegal. If there are couples who have designated their frozen embryos for research, they can still do so. The only difference is that federal tax dollars can't be used to fund the research.

And what about those couples who don't designate their embryos? Would it be OK for doctors to take one/a few without their knowledge, since they obviously are more knowledgeable about what is "necessary" in the pursuit of science? And don't even try to tell me that wouldn't happen...

Despite your posting of a political article, there has been no scientific evidence that embryonic stem cell research can do anything. And there has been no scientific evidence that adult stem cell research (which suffers none of the federal funding restrictions that embryonic cells do) is any less effective.

So why the woody for embryonic stem cells? Why can't you prove to me that adult stem cells are unsuitable first?

[Marcus Bryant]

Despite your posting of a political article, there has been no scientific evidence that embryonic stem cell research can do anything.

Exactly. And it's not like the current administration is blocking other research into potential cures for the smorgasboard of ailments out there.

There is a reason why this has been made such an issue, it is precisely because it gives abortion advocates the semblance of justification for their position.

Also, it is quite telling that it didn't take long in this thread for someone to start bashing the peaceful exercise of religious faith by others.

[exstatic]

Should we just throw them away? Leave them frozen? Force the couple to bring each and every one of them to term? What's your answer, other than putting the kibosh on anyone else's proposal?

Still waiting for any answer to these.


There is a reason why this has been made such an issue, it is precisely because it gives abortion advocates the semblance of justification for their position.

Ah, now the truth comes out. You've been dancing around it long enough. One question, though: has the ban on federal funding for stem cell research stopped abortion?


Also, it is quite telling that it didn't take long in this thread for someone to start bashing the peaceful exercise of religious faith by others.

An exercise of religious faith would be to not utilize any of the cures that may come of this, for religious reasons. Anything else is the forcing of your faith on others.

[travis2]

No. Yes, for now. No.

Now how about the issues I raised?

[Yonivore]

Still waiting for any answer to these.
I don't know the answer to that. Besides, it's not relevant to the argument. The argument is whether or not my tax dollars should be used to advance research that requires the creation of a human life that will be destroyed during that research.

Ah, now the truth comes out. You've been dancing around it long enough. One question, though: has the ban on federal funding for stem cell research stopped abortion?
The more appropriate question is, has the ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research stopped embryonic stem cell research? If so, why? If not, what's your beef?

Also, it apparently escapes EVERYONE'S notice that the federal government has NEVER funded embryonic stem cell research.

An exercise of religious faith would be to not utilize any of the cures that may come of this, for religious reasons. Anything else is the forcing of your faith on others.
Huh?

[Marcus Bryant]

Ah, now the truth comes out. You've been dancing around it long enough. One question, though: has the ban on federal funding for stem cell research stopped abortion?

That does not follow my statement. Try again.



An exercise of religious faith would be to not utilize any of the cures that may come of this, for religious reasons. Anything else is the forcing of your faith on others.

That's great, but you were the one who felt compelled to use this as an opportunity to attack religious faith. One can be an athiest and believe that the destruction of embryos in the name of research is unethical.

[Samurai Jane]

I don't know the answer to that. Besides, it's not relevant to the argument. The argument is whether or not my tax dollars should be used to advance research that requires the creation of a human life that will be destroyed during that research.

The more appropriate question is, has the ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research stopped embryonic stem cell research? If so, why? If not, what's your beef?

Also, it apparently escapes EVERYONE'S notice that the federal government has NEVER funded embryonic stem cell research.

Huh?

Yoni, I asked something about that earlier, I heard yesterday that Bush is the first president to allow even partial funding for this area of research.

[exstatic]

Would it be OK for doctors to take one/a few without their knowledge, since they obviously are more knowledgeable about what is "necessary" in the pursuit of science?

No.


So why the woody for embryonic stem cells? Why can't you prove to me that adult stem cells are unsuitable first?

I actually started to do some more net research to post, but then stopped. The plain, undisputable fact is that you don't want them to be. I could take you to a lab and show you in person, but you'd just fall back on ol' standby: "but it's still wrong". There's no arguing with that, because it's a belief or a non-belief situation.

[travis2]

I actually started to do some more net research to post, but then stopped. The plain, undisputable fact is that you don't want them to be. I could take you to a lab and show you in person, but you'd just fall back on ol' standby: "but it's still wrong". There's no arguing with that, because it's a belief or a non-belief situation.

ummmm...whether it's a belief or non-belief situation does not alter the fact that there is no evidence supporting embryonic stem cells over adult stem cells.

[exstatic]

There's plenty.

[exstatic]

embryonic stem cell research testimony (http://www.ascb.org/news/vol22no6/policy.htm)

[Marcus Bryant]

dog with big ass tounge (http://www.cleanfunny.com/pics/animal-strange-weird-dog-longest-tung.jpg)

[travis2]

adult stem cell therapy testimony (http://www.stemcellresearch.org/testimony/levesque.htm)

[travis2]

non-scientist opinion piece concerning ethics of embryonic stem cell research (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20040820.shtml)

[travis2]

washington post article discussing both adult and embryonic stem cell research (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A17047-2004Aug19?language=printer)

[travis2]

testimony concerning both effectiveness and commercial applicability of adult stem cell research (http://www.stemcellresearch.org/testimony/20040929hendrick.htm)

[Yonivore]

Looks like t2 is up on you 4 to 1 in the stem cell debate...ex.

Then MB has the big-ass-tongued dog thing.

[exstatic]

Typical MB response when he doesn't have one. Guess I'll have to quickly post 4 more, right Yoni?

trav - Thanks. I read them all.

[travis2]

*tips cap*

[Marcus Bryant]

Actually, it's a typical response from me for individuals no longer worth taking seriously.

[Yonivore]

Guess I'll have to quickly post 4 more, right Yoni?
That seems to be the direction you've led the debate.

Dueling articles...

By the way, I perused the one you posted, there is nothing mentioned about anything research on embryonic stem cells have done above and beyond what research on adult stem cells have already accomplished.

The testimony was full of the term "promise" and "potential" and, a new word for me, "pluripotentiality."