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xrayzebra
05-24-2006, 03:20 PM
Walter Williams has this article today that I think bears
on Governments roll on everyday life. He makes a very
valid point about what Government should do or not do.
They would protect you from yourself (seat belts) but have
no problem with someone killing an unborn child.



Click it or ticket
By Walter E. Williams

May 24, 2006


Virginia's secretary of transportation sent out a letter announcing the state's annual "Click It or Ticket" campaign May 22 through June 4. I responded to the secretary of transportation with my own letter that in part reads:

"Mr. Secretary: This is an example of the disgusting abuse of state power. Each of us owns himself, and it follows that we should have the liberty to take risks with our own lives but not that of others. That means it's a legitimate use of state power to mandate that cars have working brakes because if my car has poorly functioning brakes, I risk the lives of others and I have no right to do so. If I don't wear a seatbelt I risk my own life, which is well within my rights. As to your statement 'Lack of safety belt use is a growing public health issue that . . . also costs us all billions of dollars every year,' that's not a problem of liberty. It's a problem of socialism. No human should be coerced by the state to bear the medical expense, or any other expense, for his fellow man. In other words, the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another is morally offensive."

My letter went on to tell the secretary that I personally wear a seatbelt each time I drive; it's a good idea. However, because something is a good idea doesn't necessarily make a case for state compulsion. The justifications used for "Click It or Ticket" easily provide the template and soften us up for other forms of government control over our lives.

For example, my weekly exercise routine consists of three days' weight training and three days' aerobic training. I think it's a good idea. Like seatbelt use, regular exercise extends lives and reduces health care costs. Here's my question to government officials and others who sanction the "Click It or Ticket" campaign: Should the government mandate daily exercise for the same reasons they cite to support mandatory seatbelt use, namely, that to do so would save lives and save billions of health care dollars?

If we accept the notion that government ought to protect us from ourselves, we're on a steep slippery slope. Obesity is a major contributor to hypertension, coronary disease and diabetes, and leads not only to many premature deaths but billions of dollars in health care costs. Should government enforce, depending on a person's height, sex and age, a daily 1,400 to 2,000-calorie intake limit? There's absolutely no dietary reason to add salt to our meals. High salt consumption can lead to high blood pressure, which can then lead to stroke, heart attack, osteoporosis and asthma. Should government outlaw adding salt to meals? While you might think that these government mandates would never happen, be advised that there are busybody groups currently pushing for government mandates on how much and what we can eat.

Government officials, if given power to control us, soon become zealots. Last year, Maryland state troopers were equipped with night vision goggles, similar to those used by our servicemen in Iraq, to catch night riders not wearing seatbelts. Maryland state troopers boasted that they bagged 44 drivers traveling unbuckled under the cover of darkness.

Philosopher John Stuart Mill, in his treatise "On Liberty," said it best: "That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinions of others, to do so would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him, or persuading him, or entreating him, but not for compelling him, or visiting him with any evil, in case he do otherwise."



Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics.


Copyright © 2006 Townhall.com


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Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/walterwilliams/2006/05/24/198422.html

turambar85
05-24-2006, 03:25 PM
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant."

John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

turambar85
05-24-2006, 03:26 PM
lol, my apologies, I did not read far enough down to see where you had used that quote. I suppose I could learn my own lesson on reading comprehension as well. Chalk 1 for Xray

xrayzebra
05-24-2006, 03:31 PM
lol, my apologies, I did not read far enough down to see where you had used that quote. I suppose I could learn my own lesson on reading comprehension as well. Chalk 1 for Xray


Yeah, we both got a little egg on our face today...but that is okay, it happens to everyone.... :lol

turambar85
05-24-2006, 03:34 PM
At least we can both laugh at ourselves...a new, unlikely friendship is born...

Yonivore
05-24-2006, 04:19 PM
At least we can both laugh at ourselves...a new, unlikely friendship is born...
Ewww...get a room.

Anyway, about that quote:

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant."
Am I harmed when an un-seat-belted car driver or un-helmeted motorcycle rider shows up at the hospital with catastrophic injuries that may have been prevented if they'd of taken a simple measure to protect themselves?

Damn right I am. Particularly if they are uninsured. But even if they are insured, they use resources that might better be utilized saving my wife and daughter who were just broadsided by that un-seat-belted idiot.

Click it or ticket! Click it or ticket!

turambar85
05-24-2006, 04:43 PM
Yonivore, that is quite simply the dumbest argument I have ever heard. In that case we should ban fastfood because much more health problems arise, and more hospitcal care is wasted on fatasses who like to spend their paychecks at mcdonalds. Also, should we then eliminate extreme sports, they cause injuries as well. We should eliminate all freedoms which may lead to some health care costs because afterall, the almighty dollar outweighs all, even our basic freedoms. Good lord man.

Yonivore
05-24-2006, 05:07 PM
Yonivore, that is quite simply the dumbest argument I have ever heard. In that case we should ban fastfood because much more health problems arise, and more hospitcal care is wasted on fatasses who like to spend their paychecks at mcdonalds. Also, should we then eliminate extreme sports, they cause injuries as well. We should eliminate all freedoms which may lead to some health care costs because afterall, the almighty dollar outweighs all, even our basic freedoms. Good lord man.
Then don't require a minimum standard of care for everyone that walks into a hospital. Medical care isn't a right.

If your injuries or illness are caused by being a dumbass and you can't pay the full bill, oh well...shoulda thought about that before you engaged in such behavior whether it be rock climbing or shoving Big Macs down your gullet.

You want your cake and eat it too. You want someone else (actually, everyone else) to be responsible for your recklessness.

turambar85
05-24-2006, 05:52 PM
Didnt answer the question Yoni. How can we make seatbelts legal requirements without making fastfood and extreme sports illegal. Or should we make them illegal as well. Im looking forward to your solution.

xrayzebra
05-24-2006, 06:09 PM
Ewww...get a room.

Anyway, about that quote:

Am I harmed when an un-seat-belted car driver or un-helmeted motorcycle rider shows up at the hospital with catastrophic injuries that may have been prevented if they'd of taken a simple measure to protect themselves?

Damn right I am. Particularly if they are uninsured. But even if they are insured, they use resources that might better be utilized saving my wife and daughter who were just broadsided by that un-seat-belted idiot.

Click it or ticket! Click it or ticket!

First place, we don't need a room. Just because both us just forgot
a point in the original post or overlooked it is not reason to put the
people down. You need to get a life.

"uninsured" I agree to a certain extent, but, how about the under-
insured. How bout we just change the law, like, no one is entitled to
medical care unless they can pay for it. I guess you think that
requiring insurance is a good thing. Except, it is a proven thing that
even in the most enforced states about 25 percent don't have it.

exstatic
05-24-2006, 08:47 PM
My take on seatbelts is the same as my take on helmet laws: you can go without one on the condition that you sign a binding document that says if you get turned into comatose street pizza, you or your family don't get a fucking dime from any level of government assistance, Social Security, medicare, etc. They could then issue you a card to carry with you at all times that keeps you ticket-free.

I don't want to pay for your obviously non-Mensa brain to be kept alive.

Yonivore
05-24-2006, 09:17 PM
My take on seatbelts is the same as my take on helmet laws: you can go without one on the condition that you sign a binding document that says if you get turned into comatose street pizza, you or your family don't get a fucking dime from any level of government assistance, Social Security, medicare, etc. They could then issue you a card to carry with you at all times that keeps you ticket-free.

I don't want to pay for your obviously non-Mensa brain to be kept alive.
Well said.

Reginald Red Forman
07-14-2006, 01:06 PM
Yonivore you're a royal Dumbass.
Next the Goverment will be making us guys sit down while we pee, so we don't slip on our urine and bruise a rib.
Yeah, Yeah I know, you already sit down when you pee, but it doesn't count because you have a vagina.
And then we'll have to wear helmets when we walk down the sidewalk incase the paper boy happens to hit someone with the local powell post.
You and the clicket or ticket piggies deserve a good adult sized kick in the ass!

turambar85
07-14-2006, 01:14 PM
As I have said in this thread before, if we make seatbelts mandatory we then must, by the exact same logic/reasoning, make eating your veggies mandatory.

If one does not eat their vegetables, and lives solely on the American diet of red meat and fried chicken, then they run a serious risk of heart/weight problems later in life. And I am not in the medical field, but I doubt many common-esque procedures are more expensive than open-heart surgery.

So we now have:

-Forced seatbelt use
-Forced helmets
-Forced vegetable eating
-Forced removal of all extreme sports
-An outlawing of motorcycles
-An outlawing of alchohol and cigs
-Force wearing of velcro shoes(don't wanna trip on your laces)
-And an outlawing of all private swimming pools that do not contain a lifeguard on duty.

These are just a few things that the new safe America should now have. We have to make sure that we do anything at all possible, no matter the cost to the average persons freedoms, to make sure that we dont have one extra percentage point added to the health care costs.

ChumpDumper
07-14-2006, 01:32 PM
:lol

I can tell who gets tickets for seat belt violations here.

turambar85
07-14-2006, 01:38 PM
:lol I have never had one, and actually wear one after a seatbelt saved my life in a wreck.

But I am disgusted with the fact that we pay to have the roads built, we pay for the car, we pay for the gas, and then we are told that we can only drive/ride if we are wearing something designed for OUR INDIVIDUAL SAFETY!