All Aboard The Reggie Evans Express

[timvp]

After finally starting to get over the Spurs blowing an opportunity to win the fourth championship, I began to ponder what this team needs to be successful in the future. Sure San Antonio has great talent, but they are a piece or two shy of being a true dynasty.

My first thought was the Spurs need an agile power forward (or long three, whatever you want to call it) who can shoot, pass, rebound and defend. That's what the Spurs need next to Duncan in this new era of speed basketball. I looked over the free agent list and didn't see any names that made sense.

How about trades? Again, I didn't see anything that worked. Yeah, Andres Nocioni, Lamar Odom or Boris Diaw would fit the bill, but those guys aren't going anywhere.

So then I got to thinking ... what do the San Antonio Spurs really need. They have the shooters. They have enough good passers. When matched up properly, they defend well. What the Spurs lack is rebounding.

Think about the Mavs, for instance. The Spurs currently have no chance to keep up with them on the boards. Dampier and Diop get about the same amount of boards as Duncan gets. Dirk Nowitzki is a great rebounder. Josh Howard is a very good rebounder. For the Spurs, Bowen, Parker, Ginobili, Finley, Horry ... none of them are that good of rebounders. It just doesn't add up. We saw that Pop can't (or won't) play a center versus Dallas and the rest of the players can't make up for not having a center out there. As is, the Spurs can't compete with the Mavs in rebounding.

This is where Reggie Evans comes in. Although he had a junk grabbing incident added to his resume this post-season, there's no denying his rebounding prowess. The guy is a great, great rebounder.

What I also like about him is he's mobile. At 6-foot-8, he can go out on the perimeter and defend. Against the Mavs, I can see doing a decent job on Dirk. He has the motor and the energy needed to chase him. Of course he won't shut him down, but he could help wear him out.

Offensively, he's a work in progress. He has some basic post moves but he'll get most of his points off of offensive rebounds.

Overall I see him as a potentially Ben Wallace like player. Wallace didn't have his breakout season until he was 27. Evans just turned 26. They both bounced around early in their career. It wasn't until the Pistons gave him extended minutes did Wallace become the player he is today.

I think if the Spurs sign Evans and put him next to Duncan, he could lead the league in rebounds. Just looking at numbers, he's a better rebounder than Ben Wallace. In fact, Evans might just be the best rebounder in the league.

What Evans can't do is block shots. That's the big difference between the two players. Then again, Reggie Evans has played for defensive geniuses such as Bob Weiss and Bob Hill in his career, so it's tough to tell what he's capable of doing.

If you can sign Evans, then you can have Evans, Horry and Nesterovic next to Duncan. That'd be a wicked threesome with varied skills. Evans would be the tough guy who can pull down the boards. Horry would be the hired gun who can hit shots, pass and defend the post. Nesterovic would be the guy you bring in to go against the Shaqs, Yaos and other centers. This three-headed monster would give the Spurs supreme versatility.

Last year, Evans turned down a two-year, $10M contract offer from the Sonics. While he played well for the Nuggets after being traded there at the trade deadline, Denver is stacked with post players (Camby, Martin, Nene, Najera, Elson). I think that if the Spurs go after him hard, they could get him with part of the MLE. Dangling a starting spot next to Duncan should do the trick.

Evans just needs a chance. And honestly, it wouldn't be that much of a risk to pay him decently to come here. Rebounding is one stat that doesn't lie. Rebounders can rebound. Put Evans on the Spurs and the missed rebounds that cost them against the Mavs would be gobbled up ... and then some.

I know he isn't the perfect candidate for what the Spurs and Spurs fans are looking for, but I believe that he's the best man for the job. Rebounding wins championships and Reggie Evans can rebound.

Reggie Evans for 2006-07.

:smokin

[T Park]

I agree.

Too bad Evans will go for the money more than likely.

And the Spurs prob don't even have him n their radar.

[timvp]

Here is an article by John Hollinger written on March 9, 2005 about just how good of a rebounder Reggie Evans is.


Evans challenges all-time champ Rodman

Care to guess who's having one of the best rebounding seasons in history?

Your first instinct might be to say Kevin Garnett, who's running away with the rebounding title. He's averaging 13.7 boards a game, which is nearly two more than his closest competitor. Considering his sizable lead, it seems heretical to suggest somebody else is the league's best rebounder. But it's true. Though hardly a household name, the Seattle SuperSonics' Reggie Evans is putting Garnett to shame with his rebounding exploits.

How did I arrive at this conclusion? It all starts with a simple premise: A player can't get a rebound unless somebody misses a shot. Following from that logic, the best way to rate rebounders is by the percentage of missed shots they reel in, not by the amount they pull down per game or even per minute.

Consider the following example.

Player A gets 10 rebounds in a game with 20 missed shots, while Player B nabs 20 in a game with 100 missed shots. Player B has twice as many rebounds, but is he really better? Player A grabbed a Herculean 50 percent of all the missed shots in his game, while Player B took in only 20 percent. We shouldn't hold it against Player A that there were so few missed shots for him to rebound.

This is where my tool called Rebound Rate comes in. By measuring the percentage of available rebounds that a player gets while he's on the floor, Rebound Rate makes Player A's superiority obvious.

To calculate a player's Rebound Rate, start by adding all the rebounds and opponents' rebounds in his team's games. Multiply that result by the percentage of the team's minutes that player has played. This gives you the approximate number of rebounds available while he was on the court. Finally, take his total rebounds, divide it by the available rebounds, and multiply by 100.

And there you have it – a player's Rebound Rate.

Using this calculation, Garnett's Rebound Rate is exceptional. Since there are 10 players on the court at any time, an average Rebound Rate is 10.0, but Garnett pulls in 20.3 percent of the available rebounds when he's on the court. Basically, he's doing the work of two people. The reigning MVP's effort is doubly amazing considering how much time he spends playing on the perimeter on both offense and defense.

However, a few players have been even more exceptional than Garnett, most notably Evans.

He has yanked down nearly a quarter of the missed shots when he's been on the court, making him the runaway winner in Rebound Rate. Two spots behind him is teammate Danny Fortson, who led the league in this category in 2001-02 and again last season (Garnett was third) and is in the running this year. Seattle's dynamic duo doesn't possess glitzy per-game averages – 9.3 for Evans and 6.1 for Fortson. But once you consider that each averages fewer than 25 minutes per game, it becomes easy to see how they can rank at the top.

For further evidence of the Seattle duo's impact, just look at the Sonics' overall Rebound Rate.

They grab 52.1 percent of missed shots, the fifth-best mark in the league, and that's almost entirely due to the efforts of Evans and Fortson. Nick Collison is the only other Sonic regular with a Rebound Rate above 12, while the five Sonics who play the most minutes – Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Luke Ridnour, Vladimir Radmanovic and Antonio Daniels – all are in single digits. With so few teammates pulling their own weight, it's extraordinary that Evans and Fortson can more than make up for them in their limited minutes.

Garnett, meanwhile, is fifth, right behind Indiana's Jeff Foster. Garnett's Rebound Rate is still amazing, especially since he can't focus single-mindedly on rebounding as the four players ahead of him do. But for pure rebounding excellence, the two Sonics are a cut above right now.

As a matter of fact, let's get some historical perspective on Evans's extraordinary rebounding performance. Based on the Rebound Rates for every player since 1970-71 when the NBA started tracking opponents' rebounds, Evans is moving into the exalted territory previously occupied by only one man: Dennis Rodman.

The seven best Rebound Rates since 1970-71 all belong to the Worm during seven consecutive seasons from 1991-92 to 1997-98.

In six of them, he grabbed more than a quarter of the available rebounds, the only player in the last 35 years to do so. But with just a slight increase in the season's final 25 games, Evans could be joining Rodman. He's already broken into the bottom layer of Rodman's era of dominance, eclipsing the former Mr. Electra's 1997-98 campaign. Except for the Ruthian exploits of the Worm, Evans is having the best rebounding season in the past four decades.

Understanding Rebound Rate also makes it easier to comprehend the Sonics' staggering improvement this year. With Evans and Fortson making up for their teammates' biggest shortcomings, the Sonics have gone from being one of the league's worst rebounding teams to one of its best.

Thus, while Garnett's gaping lead in rebounding average garners the spotlight, a much more amazing feat is being accomplished in relative obscurity. Reggie Evans cleans up on KG – and everybody else.


Rebound Rate Top 10
Min. 500 minutes (through 3/6)
Player Team Rate
Reggie Evans SuperSonics 24.5
Dan Gadzuric Bucks 21.3
Danny Fortson SuperSonics 21.2
Jeff Foster Pacers 20.8
Kevin Garnett Timberwolves 20.3
Tim Duncan Spurs 19.8
Joel Przybilla Trail Blazers 19.2
Tyson Chandler Bulls 19.1
Troy Murphy Warriors 19.0
Ben Wallace Pistons 19.0


Best Rebound Rates
Since 1970-71
(min. 500 minutes)
Player Year Rate
Dennis Rodman 1994-95 29.7
Dennis Rodman 1993-94 29.6
Dennis Rodman 1995-96 26.6
Dennis Rodman 1991-92 26.2
Dennis Rodman 1992-93 26.0
Dennis Rodman 1996-97 25.7
Reggie Evans 2004-05 24.5
Dennis Rodman 1997-98 24.0
Ben Wallace 2002-03 23.2
Moses Malone 1979-80 23.2

[timvp]

I agree.

Too bad Evans will go for the money more than likely.

I don't think the bidding will get that high. He never got an offer last season from anyone other than the Sonics.

He'll be sought after, but if the Spurs go after him with the MLE and a starting spot, I think they could get him.


And the Spurs prob don't even have him n their radar.

Pop has been complaining about the lack of rebounding since the series started. The Spurs better take a good look at getting the best rebounder in the league.

[MannyIsGod]

Hmm, I really don't know if I like it. He's a guy who hits the boards hard and he could generate offense simply out of that, but how is he at setting screens and moving in a motion offense? I don't know what kind of a defender he is because I haven't seen him play much, but I do remember that last year I wasn't impressed when I saw him in the playoffs outside of his rebounding numbers.

I don't know if he's the type of player I would throw the MLE at though.

[flipcritic]

It's funny that after giving up someone like Malik Rose, we're going for someone just like him (Evans) again.

[Kori Ellis]

It's funny that after giving up someone like Malik Rose, we're going for someone just like him (Evans) again.

Give or take 3 inches and a lot more rebounds.

[strangeweather]

And the Spurs prob don't even have him n their radar.

Why wouldn't they? It's pretty obvious that Horry can't cut it as the starter when we use a small lineup, so I hope they're turning over all kinds of rocks looking for guys.

[timvp]

It's funny that after giving up someone like Malik Rose, we're going for someone just like him (Evans) again.

Rose was a good rebounder.

Evans could lead the league in rebounding pretty easily.

[Kori Ellis]

I think he's a great rebounder. I just don't know if he's a personality fit (and not because of his nut grab). He has kind of a surly reputation. And maybe a rep of not being quite a team player.

[timvp]

I think he's a great rebounder. I just don't know if he's a personality fit (and not because of his nut grab). He has kind of a surly reputation. And maybe a rep of not being quite a team player.

Spurs need some toughness. They have enough nice guys. I wouldn't mind a guy who would do anything to win.

:smokin

[MannyIsGod]

If the Spurs do go the Evans route, you can pretty much be sure that small ball will play a much larger role next year. I'm not sure that isn't pretty much inevitable either way because there just doesn't seem to be a decent big man that we can go grab for the money we have.

If thats the case, then I can see the case for brining in a guy like Evans.

[El_Mago]

Dirk would torch Evans on the perimeter if that's who you plan on having guarding Dirk.

[Kori Ellis]

With Duncan at center and a regular power forward in the lineup (like Evans or anyone else), I don't call that small ball. Small ball to me is when you have one big on the floor like we did in the Mavs series.

[MannyIsGod]

Isn't Evans an undersized PF though? Not in the mold of Malik persay, but undersized none the less. I think what I mean to say is that you basicaly forget about the foundation of the Spurs defense for the past 8 years or so: Twin Towers.

[T Park]

Dirk would torch Evans on the perimeter if that's who you plan on having guarding Dirk.

Evans is long, and pretty athletic,
with the right coaching he could guard Dirk very well.

[strangeweather]

I think he's a great rebounder. I just don't know if he's a personality fit (and not because of his nut grab). He has kind of a surly reputation. And maybe a rep of not being quite a team player.

Surly 6'8" pure rebounder who doesn't always get along with his team and has virtually no offensive game? Doesn't that make him Danny Fortson redux?

[timvp]

Hmm, I really don't know if I like it. He's a guy who hits the boards hard and he could generate offense simply out of that, but how is he at setting screens and moving in a motion offense? I don't know what kind of a defender he is because I haven't seen him play much, but I do remember that last year I wasn't impressed when I saw him in the playoffs outside of his rebounding numbers.

I don't know if he's the type of player I would throw the MLE at though.

Evans isn't perfect but after looking at the free agent list and players available throughout the league, I don't see a better fit. Chicago isn't going to give away Deng. Spurs aren't going to sign a Ben Wallace or an Al Harrington. There are some players that make partial sense like Radmanovic or Przybilla.

But all in all, I think rebounding is what the Spurs lack most and Reggie Evans is a realistic addition and he would correct that weakness fast.

[El_Mago]

So if we throw half of the MLE to Evans, which I doubt will be good enough for him, will only half of the MLE satisfy Scola? Or do we just trade his rights?

If not Scola, does the other half go to a backup pg? Or try to grab a SF like Jumaine Jones or John Salmons?

[timvp]

Isn't Evans an undersized PF though? Not in the mold of Malik persay, but undersized none the less. I think what I mean to say is that you basicaly forget about the foundation of the Spurs defense for the past 8 years or so: Twin Towers.

Reggie Evans and Ben Wallace are about the same height.

[timvp]

Dirk would torch Evans on the perimeter if that's who you plan on having guarding Dirk.

Evans could buy minutes on him. There's nobody available who can guard Dirk but a mobile big like Evans could at least attempt to guard him.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, one thing that is a fact is that the free agent pool is dry as all hell. I don't mind bringing in Evans, but I do question the price. I would like to see Scola come over so that we can see what he can do. If we can trade his rights, thats fine too but I don't see us getting the appropriate value in a trade.

[Slinkyman]

i'd rather have Jared Jeffries, he's more versatile and a better defender. 6'10 240, just like derrick mckey... hmmm

[Kori Ellis]

Well you'd have to pay Scola at least $4M/year. I'm a little skeptical at that price.

[timvp]

Right now I take Evans over Scola. Scola is a scorer who doesn't rebound or defend that well. Evans is a rebounder and a bully around the basket. IMO, Spurs have enough scoring.

[MannyIsGod]

Reggie Evans and Ben Wallace are about the same height.Yeah, but Ben is a freak at that height. I don't think a defense with Evans next to Duncan would work with funneling the pentration torwards the baselines.

[Kori Ellis]

i'd rather have Jared Jeffries, he's more versatile and a better defender. 6'10 240, just like derrick mckey... hmmm

Restricted.

[Gummi]

Never liked the guy. His offense sucks and the Spurs can't afford to have two starters that are sometimes a no show on offense. Oberto IMO if given time 20 minutes or so a game could easily averaged 5-6 rebounds a game. When he's played 10+ minutes he usually contributes a lot for the team.

Also like Kori said, he has a bad reputation around the league.

[El_Mago]

I can see your argument on how he can attempt to guard him, but judging from the last series....if you barely touch Dirk he goes to the line.

Dirk would just blow by Evans on the perimeter, which would more than likely cause Evans to foul him, and if he doesn't then Dirk goes free to the hole.

I would be all for Evans if Dirk primarily played post up because he's athletic enough down there in that cramped space to play good D....especially with that 7'2 wingspan, but I just can't see it on the perimeter.

[T Park]

Oberto IMO if given time 20 minutes or so a game could easily averaged 5-6 rebounds a game

given those minutes next to Duncan, Evans would average about 15.

[MannyIsGod]

My only wonder with Evans is defense. I think he'll work out fine in all other aspects of the game, but would giving him major minutes require a change in the fundemental defensive scheme?

[timvp]

Yeah, but Ben is a freak at that height. I don't think a defense with Evans next to Duncan would work with funneling the pentration torwards the baselines.

Yeah, I don't know if the Twin Tower alignment is practical anymore. With Dallas and Phoenix in the WCF, the NBA is going away from power basketball to speed basketball. The Spurs couldn't put a shot blocker on the court next to Duncan against the Mavs. Against the Suns, the Spurs could barely put Duncan out on the court :lol

[timvp]

Never liked the guy. His offense sucks and the Spurs can't afford to have two starters that are sometimes a no show on offense. Oberto IMO if given time 20 minutes or so a game could easily averaged 5-6 rebounds a game. When he's played 10+ minutes he usually contributes a lot for the team.

Also like Kori said, he has a bad reputation around the league.

He's not an offensive player but neither were Nazr or Rasho. Evans can at least catch the ball.

And 5-6 rebounds doesn't help.

[El_Mago]

I would love Jarred Jeffries, but he is restricted.

Although, checking some Wizard boards, most fan's are not too high on him.

Jarvis Hayes and Caron are there at the SF, so if you offer Jeffries enough...the Wiz might have to reconsider, but the again, that would have to be a huge portion of the MLE.

[MannyIsGod]

I think the Spurs don't need to retool to guard Dirk. When you're able to guard Dirk with Bowen you're ok. The problems arose when they put Bowen on him and Jason Terry and Josh Howard got to the rim at will. Our real problem was in that series had nothing to do with stopping Dirk but with stopping penetration and grabbing rebounds.

I can be convinced that a rebounder will put the Spurs over a "hump" because that was the biggest weakness in both series this year. We got murdered on the glass.

[Gummi]

What about Devean George, I posted something about him in another thread without many replies. He fits that athletic long three that could guard guys like Dirk and maybe even Amare. At 6-8, 235 lbs he would allow the Spurs to play small ball with him at the 4 and Duncan at the 5.

A decent shooter and guy that knows how to win. He's not going to ask for alot after a tough season last season.

[timvp]

What about Deavean George, I posted something about him in another thread without many replies. He fits that athletic long three that could guard guys like Dirk and maybe even Amare. At 6-8, 235 lbs he would allow the Spurs to play small ball with him at the 4 and Duncan at the 5.

A decent shooter and guy that knows how to win. He's not going to ask for alot after a tough season last season.

Not a good rebounder nor a good defender. Can't guard the post. Isn't that mobile and isn't that long.

He can shoot, though :)

[timvp]

I can be convinced that a rebounder will put the Spurs over a "hump" because that was the biggest weakness in both series this year. We got murdered on the glass.

Yeah at first I was searching for a long three ... but then I remembered how Bonzi Wells got 23423 rebounds in a six game series.

[Slinkyman]

Restricted.

true, but i doubt the wiz match if we sign Jeffries to a long term deal worth most or all the MLE when they have 3 or 4 other SFs on that team especially when they need someone who can score in the post (like scola) :smokin

I mean if we're spending the whole MLE on one player, or most of it anyway i'd rather get a guy who can play 3 positions versus scola or evans who only play 1 position.

[timvp]

true, but i doubt the wiz match if we sign Jeffries to a long term deal worth most or all the MLE when they have 3 or 4 other SFs on that team especially when they need someone who can score in the post (like scola) :smokin

I mean if we're spending the whole MLE on one player, or most of it anyway i'd rather get a guy who can play 3 positions versus scola or evans who only play 1 position.

I like Jeffries a little bit but he just doesn't do anything that well other than defend ... and he's not even that great at that. He's also not that good of a rebounder, shooter or passer.

He has the size and the length but there needs to be more than that.

[Gummi]

For some reason I've always liked Devean's game. He's a versatile player that can play three positions. I agree with the rebounding part, he's not a great rebounder for his position, but I've seen him play pretty good D on Dirk in the past. He's above an average defender that's for sure.

As a free agent who probably wouldn't mind a change after seven seasons with the Lakers, I'm sure he would listen carefully if the Spurs came with an offer.

[MannyIsGod]

Inagra. Look at last years stats against Amare. Do you think the Spurs are even interested in stopping him?

[Kori Ellis]

Anyway, to answer the thread, I'm not getting on board this train yet.

There's got to be a better alternative.

[El_Mago]

I like the defense Jeffries played against LeBron.

Sure, Jeffries offense has been inconsitent, but he can be one of those players where put in a winning situation can do wonders for him.

I don't know how many people knew Boris Diaw could play at such a high level...who knew he had this offensive game in him. In Atlanta, he was notorious for being too passive, and could barely get off the bench.

Parker, Ginobili, and especially Duncan could make Jeffries life a lot easier and he might even surprise most because of the environment those All-Stars provide for him.

Bowen then could be switched onto Dirk along with Finley, and Jeffries at 6-10 could hang with Howard speed wise, and cause Howard fits because of his size.

I personally would prefer Jeffries over Evans.

[Leeroy]

if the spurs have the opportunity to get Evans id like to see them take it. as has already been stated he is one of the top rebounders in the league and anything that would take pressure off tim is a good thing.

the best thing is guys with 'character problems' seem to be kept in line to an extent here so hopefully we wouldnt see too much problem there.

if he was to start next to tim would he get in the way on D is the big question. no doubt tims rebounding numbers would probably drop. as long as evans came here to win and knew his role i'd be all for it.

[gmanrulz]

if he grabs the boards half as hard as he grabs the nuts we'd be in good shape

[Horry For 3!]

It's funny that after giving up someone like Malik Rose, we're going for someone just like him (Evans) again.
I am not sure how tall Reggie Evans is but if he is as tall as he is listed 6'8" then he is 3" taller than Malik because I have met Malik in person and he is like 6'5"

[Horry For 3!]

I think the Spurs don't need to retool to guard Dirk. When you're able to guard Dirk with Bowen you're ok. The problems arose when they put Bowen on him and Jason Terry and Josh Howard got to the rim at will. Our real problem was in that series had nothing to do with stopping Dirk but with stopping penetration and grabbing rebounds.

I can be convinced that a rebounder will put the Spurs over a "hump" because that was the biggest weakness in both series this year. We got murdered on the glass.
Not even just those 2 series, we got owned on the boards mainly all season.

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

if he grabs the boards half as hard as he grabs the nuts we'd be in good shape
:lmao

[kris]

Capital idea. RE's price may even be a little cheaper because of the grabbing incident. The twin towers idea would be great if we could do it, but I don't see any David Robinsons laying around. David was so athletic and brilliant, he could guard his own man and 1 and 1/2 other guys at the same time. David was what made the Spurs defense impeccable, but after his retirement, the Spurs defensive talent thinned and true centers are becoming extinct.

Oberto is barely NBA talent if he even belongs in the league. He's already short at 6'8'' for a PF/C but then he doesn't make up for it. He can't block shots. He can't shoot. He's slow and immobile. He's not very coordinated. He can't jump. He's smart enough, but he doesn't have the tools necessary. Basically, he's Rasho if Rasho was a little faster and 6 inches shorter.

I would like to see the Spurs take a chance on some raw talent at the 4/5 spot. The Spurs are notorious for their remarkable development of such players. If you get a 6'9'' guy with athletic ability who is smart with good work ethic, he could probably be worth an energetic 10 minutes in the playoffs.

I don't want the Spurs to spend $4 million on Scola. I've never seen him play in a whole game, but that is a ton of money for a guy whose never played in the NBA. We could have another Oberto on our hands which would basically sink the Spurs.

Also, Pop needs to stop being Person of the Year in the NBA. It is extremely generous of him to breed all of these hybrid Jr. Pop's and teach them the ways of the land and then let them go like a proud father, but it cannot be good for the Spurs. One, they have the coaching/personnel turnover of McDonalds. Two, all of these guys have the playbook in their heads.

Practically, at some point, it becomes detrimental to the Spurs. I've never seen any coach produce so many understudies, so quickly that are worthy for head coaching jobs or 1st assistants.

Back to Reggie Evans though, Timvp is right. This guy isn't a 10 of 10 perfect fit, but he looks like a really good addition. I don't know his contract status, but Ruben Patterson reminds me a little bit of his small forward likeness. Patterson would have been a good matchup for Bonzi Wells or other rebounding 3's, smaller 4's.

These guys are flat out tough guys, which would do the Spurs a world of good.

The Spurs are capable of a dynasty right with the core they have now. They just need to add a couple of more pieces to put some distance between them and the other teams. Dynasties don't arise from fielding competitive teams. Dynasty teams are dominate.

[timvp]

I didn't realize the rebounding versus the Mavericks was so pitiful. I knew it was bad but I didn't know how bad.

The Spurs were outrebounded in each of the seven games. For the series, the Mavs averaged more than 5 more rebounds per game. You just can't win like that. You can have the three of the best four players in the series but if you don't rebound, you don't win.

The Kings beat up on the Spurs too. The Spurs were outrebounded in 11 of their final 12 playoff games.

That's just sick.

Reggie Evans is the medicine.

:smokin

[timvp]

The Spurs were outrebounded in 11 of their final 12 playoff games.


http://students.washington.edu/dnp2/Sonicpics/act_reggie_evans.jpg

[Horry For 3!]

http://espn.go.com/media/nba/2005/0503/photo/a_evans_sp.jpg
Even Brad Miller is scared of Evans :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

On the subject of the Spurs front office personal leaving like crazy....

I think thats pretty much unavoidable when you're a winning team like the Spurs have been. You're the first place other teams look for coaching/front office talent and its not like you can keep people from moving up in their careers. Its the price of success.

[T Park]

spend all taht money on Reggie

no money left over for a Bobby Jackson or a Speedy Claxton.

Nor Scola

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

damn, 11 out of 12.......ouch....

[Kori Ellis]

On the subject of the Spurs front office personal leaving like crazy....

I think thats pretty much unavoidable when you're a winning team like the Spurs have been. You're the first place other teams look for coaching/front office talent and its not like you can keep people from moving up in their careers. Its the price of success.

I agree.

But they can't lose Presti.

He holds all the secrets.

[T Park]

resign Sam Presti to a big contract too Spurs.

Losing him would be the end of the dynasty IMO.

[T Park]

lol me and Kori on the same wavelength

[timvp]

http://www.bbv-net.de/layout/fotos/303x238/070503_MAVERICKS_SUPERSONICS_BASKETBALL_WAJB10643a d23760166.jpg

I gots dis beech.

[timvp]

damn, 11 out of 12.......ouch....

Yeah, you can't win with that BS. 11 out of the final 12 games you get outrebounded?

Spurs deserve to be fishing.

[Leeroy]

when your at the top for so long, and its been a while now (aren't we lucky) i think you need to keep topping up your list not just with new people but players which add something different.

we added a few guys this year which really do things we already had covered. adding a monster on the boards would be good.

new people mean practicing against different talents, it helps to keep them sharp and avoid complacency

[kris]

I agree.

But they can't lose Presti.

He holds all the secrets.

D'Antoni
Avery
Mario
Prunty
Doc Rivers
Danny Ferry
Mike Brown
Lance Blanks
Paul Pressey
Monty Williams

That is all since 99. I disagree. Pop's just grooming them to go somewhere else. It's a revolving door.

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

when your at the top for so long, and its been a while now (aren't we lucky) i think you need to keep topping up your list not just with new people but players which add something different.

we added a few guys this year which really do things we already had covered. adding a monster on the boards would be good.

new people mean practicing against different talents, it helps to keep them sharp and avoid complacency

Yeah, Reggie would be good..he needs a little work but, he'd be good.

[timvp]

In the final 12 playoff games, the Spurs were outrebounded 483 to 432. The Spurs couldn't win a WNBA championship if they were owned on the boards that hardcore.

[Leeroy]

In the final 12 playoff games, the Spurs were outrebounded 483 to 432. The Spurs couldn't win a WNBA championship if they were owned on the boards that hardcore.

thats a huge number, 51 boards in 12 games :td

[timvp]

On the occasion of the Academy Awards, Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy gave his NBA Best Actor Award.

" Reggie Evans would definitely get best actor in the league," Van Gundy said of the Denver power forward, just days after the Rockets played the Nuggets. "I am so sick of watching that guy flop I can't stand it. It is an absolute disgrace what he does. Those two fouls he supposedly drew on Yao (Ming) the other night were a joke — jumping into the front row. The NBA's got to do something about it.

"He's taken flopping to a new level. The (officials) who look at him, you could eliminate it in one or two games, if you look at him and call a foul every time. He throws himself into the air with minimal contact. And because he does it on every possession, sometimes he does get hit, but you would never know when. It's too hard a game to referee.

"And he's too good a player to be jumping around."

Van Gundy had praised the rest of Evans' play before Friday's game and again Sunday.

"I love his competitive spirit, I love his intensity and I hate the way the game has grown to where you can act your way to calls," Van Gundy said. "In hockey, I like (that) they fine, they fine for dives. And every time the guy exaggerates the contact, the foul would be on him."

It's time to fight fire with fire. Or flopper with flopper, if you will.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/05-22-2005.NS_22MAVSdirk.G2H1JN1EA.1.jpg

http://www2.jsonline.com/badger/image/2001/davis30301.jpg

[Leeroy]

lol thats a laugh. Evans came into denver and averaged 8.7 RPG as a reserve. Rasho had 3.9 and Nazr 5.2 in only 5 mpg less than Evans

[Kori Ellis]

We all have seen the Nuts.

[timvp]

Watch this video and then have Kori bite your damn fingers off for typing Spurs and Reggie Evans in the same sentence: http://www.funlol.com/funpages/reggie-evans-grabs-chris-kaman.html

If someone would have tugged on Dirk's junk I'd take it as long as it meant more rebounds.

[MannyIsGod]

I wonder if Evans plays poker?

I got the nuts!

[Bruno]

I don't like Evans, this guy is a great rebounder but is an average defender and a poor offensive player.
If the price for Evans is a full MLE deal ($30M/5years), I rather go for a player like Harrington for $50M/6years.

[timvp]

Let's not forget what happened the two times the Spurs played Detroit this season. First game, Spurs were outrebounded 57-30. Second game the Spurs were outrebounded 56-32.

I think it's safe to say rebounding is a place that needs improvement.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/2005/01/19/v011910A.jpg

[AMOS7]

Reggie Evans kick

[Bruno]

Rebounding isn't enough.
Nazr is a great rebounder (9th in rebounds/48min) and I don't think a shorter version of Nazr will help us. I don't find that Evans will do e better job on defense than Nazr or that he can defend Dirk.

And the main reason why Spurs aren't a good rebounding team is because we played with a SG/SF at the SF spot and not a SF/PF at the SF spot.

[timvp]

Rebounding isn't enough.
Nazr is a great rebounder (9th in rebounds/48min) and I don't think a shorter version of Nazr will help us. I don't find that Evans will do e better job on defense than Nazr or that he can defend Dirk.

And the main reason why Spurs aren't a good rebounding team is because we played with a SG/SF at the SF spot and not a SF/PF at the SF spot.

That's a good excuse, but they still have to fix it. They can't continue to be outrebounded next year. Oh and what was the excuse against Detroit during the regular season?

Evans is much more mobile than Nazr. He's also much faster and has better hands. In the current era of speed basketball, Evans would fit way better than Nazr.

[Bruno]

That's a good excuse, but they still have to fix it. They can't continue to be outrebounded next year. Oh and what was the excuse against Detroit during the regular season?

Evans is much more mobile than Nazr. He's also much faster and has better hands. In the current era of speed basketball, Evans would fit way better than Nazr.

Spurs weren't outrebounded this year.
We were outrebounded during certain games :
- Against Detroit : you can blame it on Rasho or on the lack of motivation. We weren't outrebounded by them during the 2005 final with the same team.
- Against Sacramento : our swings couldn't contain theirs swings and we have played some small ball.
- Against Dallas : small ball.

I don't say Evans won't help us but I just don't think this guy is the best solution. Duncan/Evans can be the best rebounding duo in the nba but that's all and I don't think it's enough.

[timvp]

Spurs weren't outrebounded this year.
We were outrebounded during certain games :


Bottomline is the Spurs were outrebounded in 11 of their 13 playoff games. Yeah, they played small ball but that doesn't change the fact they were outrebounded. With Reggie Evans, they wouldn't have had to go as small.

[timvp]

If the price for Evans is a full MLE deal ($30M/5years), I rather go for a player like Harrington for $50M/6years.

1. I doubt Evans gets the full MLE. No teams made him an offer last year outside of Seattle. I'm thinking something like $12-15M over 3-4 years or something along those lines.

2. How do you propose the Spurs get Harrington. I'd like to trade Rasho, Nazr, Beno, Marks, Oberto, PJ and Sanders for Andres Nocioni but that won't happen either.

[Nbadan]

Pine Sol?!?

:lol


Evans made the news on December 6, 2005, when he was absent for the opening minutes of the second half in a loss to the New York Knicks. Circumstances did not allow Evans to take a steroid test prior to the game, so a league official required that it be done at halftime. Evans laughed off the suggestion he was under suspicion. "I've been clean since I've been in the league. I've been clean since I've been in college. I've been clean since I've been in high school, middle school, elementary school. I'm just cleaner than clean. I'm cleaner than Pine-Sol."

For his rebounding prowess, Sonics fans refer to him as "The Collector," although some prefer the moniker "Pine Sol."

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Evans)

[timvp]

Pine Sol?!?

:lol



Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Evans)

If he's on the juice, it's all good.

As long as the Spurs don't get repeatedly owned on the boards next year :madrun

[Bruno]

Bottomline is the Spurs were outrebounded in 11 of their 13 playoff games. Yeah, they played small ball but that doesn't change the fact they were outrebounded. With Reggie Evans, they wouldn't have had to go as small.

It was either being outrebounded or being outscored by Dirk or Howard, pop has chosen being outrebounded.
Evans can't defend on Dirk or Howard, he won't have changed that.
I understand your point, but I just think that Evans poor offense and average defense can't be offset by his rebounding ability.
To me, he is just a rebounding specialist and we need a more all-round player to start with Duncan.

[Kori Ellis]

1/2 the MLE, I'd take him.

Full MLE, nope.

[timvp]

Evans can't defend on Dirk or Howard, he won't have changed that.
I think he could, but it's tough to prove that over the internets.


I understand your point, but I just think that Evans poor offense and average defense can't be offset by his rebounding ability.
To me, he is just a rebounding specialist and we need a more all-round player to start with Duncan.

Fair enough. I looked but there aren't any available players who would be the all-around types I'd also prefer. Give me some reasonable names that the Spurs could sign.

[Bruno]

1. I doubt Evans gets the full MLE. No teams made him an offer last year outside of Seattle. I'm thinking something like $12-15M over 3-4 years or something along those lines.

2. How do you propose the Spurs get Harrington. I'd like to trade Rasho, Nazr, Beno, Marks, Oberto, PJ and Sanders for Andres Nocioni but that won't happen either.

1. It's way more difficult for players to get offers when they are restricted free agent, teams don't want to freeze their money during one week. $30M is maybe too much but I think he will get at least $20M.

2. Harrington is an unrestricted free agent. That means that we can do a S&T for him. Miami get Walker for 2 second round pick. I'm sure we can get Harrington for our 2007 first round pick + a trade exception big enough (if Atlanta doesn't want one of our player).
I think a realistic way to get a TE big enough is to trade Rasho+Scola for nothing to Chicago. I think Chicago can do this trade.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well Reggie Evans would probably help the Spurs with their rebounding problem. I wonder how good his 1-1 defense is. He seems quick and strong but I haven't seen him play a lot.

What came into my mind concerning Jeffries. Maybe they could pull off a trade with the Wizards. They don't really have good big so how about: Nazr/Scola/ Udrih for Jeffries/ Daniels
I don't know the salaries but I think it would help both teams.Just an idea...

[Gummi]

I like Al's game, but I'm afraid he's looking for the big money. He's probably looking for $10 million plus a season and the sad thing is that he's probably going to get it somewhere.

In a perfect world, Al Harrington would be our sixth men and the punch off the bench that the Spurs have been looking for for years. But that's in a perfect world. He would never accept a bench role for any team because he could start for about 25 teams.

[timvp]

I think a realistic way to get a TE big enough is to trade Rasho+Scola for nothing to Chicago. I think Chicago can do this trade.

Why would Chicago use their cap space on Rasho? For that to be worth it, Scola would have to be the next Charles Barkley:lol

And even if there was a way to get Harrington, I don't like him as a player. He's too slow to be a small forward and not big enough to be a power forward. Plus he doesn't rebound that well and his low post game would get in Duncan's way.

[Bruno]

Why would Chicago use their cap space on Rasho? For that to be worth it, Scola would have to be the next Charles Barkley:lol


Because they need a center (Chandler is more a PF) and there aren't good centers available via FA (only Pryzbilla is available and I don't think he will sign with Chicago). If you're Bulls GM, what will you rather do :
Spend more than $30M/5 years for a center like Nazr.
or
Spend $23.5M/3 years for Rasho and $10-12M/3years for Scola ?

I'll go with Rasho and Scola.

[timvp]

I'd keep my cap space. The Spurs haven't been able to trade Rasho for an expiring contract of unused players. To go from that to a team who cleared cap space to make a splash in free agency, that's a large jump. Paxson would get hung if his big offseason acquisition was Rasho.

[mattyc]

But we can't give him 30, that's Terry Porter's number. ;)

Someone had to say it.

As for Evans, he's far from the top of my list, but I can see where timvp is coming from. Evans would fill a role.

[Bruno]

Tyrus Thomas will be their main acquisition. :)
Bulls can keep their capspace but it won't change the fact that they need a center. Only Ben Wallace and Pryzbilla are available and better than Rasho, I doubt Bulls can get them.
It will be easier to trade Rasho this summer because he has one less year on his contract. I think too that Scola is a good incentive for another team, this guy is quite young and is the best PF not playing in nba.

[Bruno]

As for Evans, he's far from the top of my list, but I can see where timvp is coming from. Evans would fill a role.

100% agree.

[intlspurshk]

I think a realistic way to get a TE big enough is to trade Rasho+Scola for nothing to Chicago. I think Chicago can do this trade.

You got to be kidding. If Paxon do this trade, he will be murdered by Bull fans :blah

[intlspurshk]

I really like Pryzbilla but SPURS will not face Shaq before beating Mavs and Suns. SO R Evans is a good choice if SPURS can take him for 3m. There is not better alternatives. Of course, if J Jefferies come, it would be better. But SPURS are too nice and not tough enough. SPURS need someone to do trash talking, crash the board, box out, GET REBOUND. He can do all that. He is not Ben Wallace nor Chris Kaman but they are untouchable. By the way, SPURS don't need further offense but a man can dunk and put back. At least he can dunk!!!

What's the big deal with the nut? He didn't foul out.

[SpurYank]

Hopefully, Pop won't read any of this and get the idea that our fans have figured out what went wrong and we now have the answer. There is no Reggie Evans on the Suns Roster and they are doing just fine against the Mavs, thank you. The Pistons have the all-world team and they are finding a way to succumb to the Heat.

IMO we have two rebounders who will do just fine when healthy. One is TD. The other Rasho. When we have to play 4 bigs and the rest small, and with TD over his plascitus condition, we have the horses to beat anyone. Pop needs to depend a bit more on his bench, the way he did for the great part of the year. Oberto, Barry, and Beno CAN contribute.

The Mavs shot unbelievably in that 7th game and they were ours to beat in that last minute. Manu normally makes that shot, or her could have gone for the rim and drawn a foul. Manu also didn't heed Pop's instructions to not foul (We had 3 point lead).

None of this had anything to do with rebounding.

Let Reggie Evans stay where he is.

The Spurs will be back. Experience is a helluva a teacher.

[Bruno]

And for people saying that Evans is undersized : he is not that undersized,
Height without shoes : 6'7"1/2
Height with shoes : 6'8"1/2
Wingspan : 7'2"1/2
Reach 8'11"1/2

He is quite short but has long arms, a player like Wilcox isn't bigger than him.

[SPARKY]

I wanted the Spurs to pick him up this season. As for the Rose comparison, Spurs fans don't seem to understand that mold of big is precisely the kind you want when you are facing "small ball" or "open court" or whatever basketball. Rose was also the reason the Spurs had no problem with the Dallas matchup in playoffs past.

Man, you don't need to construct a team with stars at every position. You need pieces that fit. I'd rather see the Spurs sign Evans for $10 to 15 mil over a few years than drop $30 mil or more on a Mohammed or whoever. You'll still have Rasho if you need to go to the more conventional shotblocker at the 5 alongside TD. If you need to spread the floor you can go with Horry.

[SPARKY]

Also, sign Evans and make Scola wait another year. Maybe then will his asking price make sense. If not, deal his rights and get something useful.

Plus, whenever the Spurs face the Clippers, Kaman will be watching his back. :)

[exstatic]

I don't think he'll be much of a Dirk deterrent. Anyone who listens to David Hasselhof probably WANTS to have his junk grabbed by another guy...

[spurster]

Who would have known that trading Malik Rose would have hurt the Spurs this year rather than last year?

[ShoogarBear]

The offseason is officially here. timvp is pushing out a wacky idea.

Reggie Evans is an interesting thought, but the Spurs #1 priority should be to try to get this guy:

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/112/2094/320/image0.1.jpg

Joel Przybilla, the Fan Thrilla.

[strangeweather]

After sleeping on it, I'm liking the idea. The guy isn't close to perfect, but he gives us the guy we need to play small ball when we need to, he's athletic, and he helps plug one of our biggest holes last year, rebounding.

If we could split the midlevel between Evans and someone like Jumaine Jones, sign Javtokas for the LLE, and trade Barry and Scola's rights for some younger backcourt help, the Spurs would pretty much be made over this offseason.

[George Gervin's Afro]

What about Darius Miles?

[strangeweather]

What about Darius Miles?

He signed a 6-year, $48 million contract 2 years ago. 4 years at > $8 million? No thanks.

[jayfmyers]

Another similar player to Evans is Al Harrington. He can rebound almost as well as Reggie and is a musch better shooter as well. He's also an inch taller and probably won't try to rip anyones testicles out.

[Nikos]

If Reggie played like he did in 2004-05, I wouldn't mind im as a Spur at all. Rebounding beast. A guy who knows his role, and someone Pop would respect in that sense. He probably wouldn't play him 28mpg in the regular season and then bench him for the playoffs because of matchup issues.....

[CharlieMac]

Yeah, his numbers jumped when he got off that Sonic bench this year.

[strangeweather]

Yeah, his numbers jumped when he got off that Sonic bench this year.

That worries me a little, because Pop might still start Rasho against a lot of teams. If he can't be effective off the bench, he might not be the guy.

[tlongII]

It's nice to see Spurs fans finally admit that Duncan, in reality, is a center.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not sold that Reggie Evans is THE answer, but I think we're at least thinking about the right question.

With the biggest hurdles appearing to now be teams like Dallas, Phoenix, and Detroit, the premium has to be not so much on bulk in the post, but on length and athleticism that can keep multiple bigs on the floor to offset the rebounding problem that was so pronounced during the playoffs.

I still think that the move that's coming is one that has Tim Duncan playing more like a center, with a more athletic PF-type alongside. In the current NBA world, that makes the most sense to me. Whoever that guy is, he doesn't have to be a stellar scorer, so long as he'll rebound and play physically in the paint.

[Phenomanul]

Kori & timvp.... have you all suggested your idea and reasoning to the Spurs' FO???

Would you write an article about Free Agent Possibilities Kori... and throw in LJ's solution?

Based on what I read, it seems like it could work...


Oh and don't count out Nocioni... he has said on many occasions he would love to play with Manu.

[Phenomanul]

I'm not sold that Reggie Evans is THE answer, but I think we're at least thinking about the right question.

With the biggest hurdles appearing to now be teams like Dallas, Phoenix, and Detroit, the premium has to be not so much on bulk in the post, but on length and athleticism that can keep multiple bigs on the floor to offset the rebounding problem that was so pronounced during the playoffs.

I still think that the move that's coming is one that has Tim Duncan playing more like a center, with a more athletic PF-type alongside. In the current NBA world, that makes the most sense to me. Whoever that guy is, he doesn't have to be a stellar scorer, so long as he'll rebound and play physically in the paint.


Would this mean that Duncan would have to relinquish his claim as the Greatest Power Forward ever...???

[strangeweather]

It's nice to see Spurs fans finally admit that Duncan, in reality, is a center.

He could always play center. But against the big teams with strong paint defenders that used to dominate the playoffs in the past, he's most effective playing PF next to another big guy. Whereas against teams like Dallas, he was usually more effective playing center next to someone like Malik.

The way the game is evolving, Boris Diaw is a center. So it's no great surprise that Duncan is too.

[FromWayDowntown]

Would this mean that Duncan would have to relinquish his claim as the Greatest Power Forward ever...???

Ultimately, what difference does that make if it makes the team better? Is Timmy's legacy at a position (which is pretty well cemented right now) more important than competing with your biggest threats? (I'm assuming that your complaint is a light-hearted one, or I'd go on with rhetorical questions)

Besides, Timmy will probably always be listed as the PF, even if he plays more like a center.

[Bruno]

Another thing that I don't like with the Evans/Duncan is that Evans can't hit a jumpshot.
Miami play too with a dominant center (Shaq) and a garbage player at PF(Haslem), it works so well because Haslem can hit open midrange jumpshots. Teams that double Shaq are punished by Haslem.
With Evans, the opposite team can double Duncan with its two bigs without taking too much risks.

[El_Mago]

Realistic lineup:

Tony Parker / Beno Udrih/ Brent Barry
Manu Ginobili / Michael Finley/Brent Barry
Bruce Bowen/ Rasual Butler/Brent Barry
Tim Duncan / Reggie Evans/ Robert Horry
Rasho Nesterovic/Robertas Javtokas/ Fabricio Oberto

- Beno Udrih get the back up reigns....if improvement is not seen up until the All-Star Break, and trade for a back up could then be made.

-Brent Barry....although more than likely to be shopped around heavily...nothing really get's done. I think New Orleans goes another way with the JR deal, but I hope not.

-Rasual Butler...he is not restricted, so I hope he would be willing to come play for a Championship and along with TD for half the MLE.

-Reggie Evans....he's and undersized PF, but athletic. Does not have great offense, but his 7'2 wingspan helps with rebounding. Half the MLE

-Robertas Javtokas....a solid big man, who can run the floor and bang down low....rebounds and put back's...is what we can expect at the least....LLE

*Nazr Mohammed.....I think the Spurs will just let him walk. Chicago can pretty much sign him outright, and the only benefit of a sign and trade is that Nazr get's a 6th year, and I don't know if that would be a good idea for Chicago. The Spurs could package him along with Barry, but I would not bank on the package deal.

*Luis Scola...to get him over here would be roughly around a 4 million dollar deal, and that just might be too much to swallow, especially with this team has other needs. We need rebounding and defense....two things Scola has never been known to be outstanding at.....

*I do recognize the fact that we need a good solid pack up PG. Hopefully, with the vet minimum we can snag someone. I just choose to spend the MLE on a SF who plays at both ends of the floor in Butler and can shoot the 3. The other half went to Evans who can help drastically in the rebounding department. The LLE went to Javtokas who can also help with the rebounding and with the departure of Nazr, we would need a back up C when Rasho needed rest or was in foul trouble.

*Lastly, as I stated before....the biggest move this summer is not a player. The biggest move is for the Spurs to make sure they lock up Sam Presti for a couple of years. We can not afford to let this guy go....he is extremely vital to the organization.

[Nbadan]

If Butler and Evans would split the MLE that wouldn't be a bad summer, but the Spurs still need a back-up PG and, well, I'm nervous because Rod Strickland is the PG vet hanging around.

Just say no to Rod!

:lol

[SenorSpur]

They should DO SOMETHING to address this deficiency. I'm tired of seeing them get "punked" on the glass as a team.

[Bruno]

Realistic lineup:
...


In fact, your scenario isn't realistic.
With your Spurs will be something like $5m over the Luxury tax and it's higly unlikely that Peter Holt agrees to spend that.

[El_Mago]

So, you don't seeing the Spurs using the MLE?

How do you expect the Spurs to improve without going over the tax?

If we trade away, we're still gonna have to recieve contracts that are similar to the ones we send out....

[FromWayDowntown]

Another thing that I don't like with the Evans/Duncan is that Evans can't hit a jumpshot.
Miami play too with a dominant center (Shaq) and a garbage player at PF(Haslem), it works so well because Haslem can hit open midrange jumpshots. Teams that double Shaq are punished by Haslem.
With Evans, the opposite team can double Duncan with its two bigs without taking too much risks.

I would tend to agree with some of that -- to an extent, at least -- which is part of the reason I'm not entirely sold on Evans. I could see an argument that teams have dealt successfully with that situation before and that hard doubles by bigs on Tim would open rebounding opportunities for a tenacious board crasher who would be dealing more with wings than with bigs. Of course, I can also see that many teams wouldn't choose to double Tim with 2 bigs, either for that reason or because it would severely complicate their rotations behind the ball.

[Bob Lanier]

Reggie Evans is one hell of a rebounder.

But I can't say that I agree with TiMVP about his mobility. He's not very fast at all for a modern power forward, and definitely isn't athletic enough to keep up with a player like Dirk on the perimeter. His defensive aptitude isn't very good (aside from his flopping whether he has position or not), and I'm certain that he will never be a Ben Wallace type defensive player. A player like Udonis Haslem (or Malik Rose :smokin ) would probably fill the void in the Spurs' defensive concept for mobile 4s, and I really like the Jumaine Jones and Jared Jeffries suggestion, although they're more of a 2/3.

[tlongII]

The Spurs can't offer more than the MLE can they? Przybilla is much better than Evans, but he will require more than the MLE. If he doesn't then we will resign him.

[superfedja]

hey timvp .... how about a sign and trade with nazir and tyson chandler .... tyson chandler has the potential to be a great defender, hes extremely mobile, HE IS THE BEST REBOUNDER IN THE NBA PERIOD cuz he is number 1 in rebounds per 48 minutes and hes a lot younger then Reggie Evans ....i dont know whats tysons contract but it must be huge ... no problem there just add brent barry and beno to the mix .. or even robert horry or oberto and we can match his contract get him here to SA and win the next 3 championships :D ..... Oh yeah and Tyson Chandler can block shots ...

what do u guys think of this ?

and someone plz give me details on Tyson Chandler's contract

[Slinkyman]

Reggie Evans is a smaller version of Nazr Mohammad that rebounds better, he'll have the big game like Nazr but like Nazr it won't last. He also is a turnover machine, remember last year in the playoffs against seattle? remember the guy missing lay up after lay up? that was reggie evans. This guy had 7 TOs in a game last year, how does a guy with no offensive game find a way to turn the ball over 7 times in one game? How about block shots? 5! he had 5 block shots for the entire year! Evans does one thing well, rebound. He sucks at everything else.

TIMVP was right about rebounding hurting us the postseason, but he's wrong in thinking a post player would help. Bonzi wells avg. 12 boards a game, reggie evans can't guard wells therefore won't be on him to block him out to prevent him from crashing the glass. Josh howard avg. over 7 boards a game, once again evans wouldn't help keep him or any other perimeter player off the boards. IMO a guy like Jared Jeffries fits the bill, he's big enough to box out a guy like Bonzi or Josh Howard but at the same time is quick enough to stay in front of him on defense.


EDIT: Przybilla sucks, Rasho could put up the same numbers on a horrible team like portland. Rasho > Przybilla

[Bruno]

Przybilla sucks, Rasho could put up the same numbers on a horrible team like portland. Rasho > Przybilla

Quite agree, even if i take Pryzbilla over Rasho because Pryzbilla is a good rebounder. Peyzbilla is very injury-prone, if he gets more than the MLE, it will be one more proof of the lack of "good" centers in the nba.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Reggie will get the full MLE from a team next season. Alot of people are saying you could use half the MLE for him, that wont get it done :smokin

Im hoping the Nuggets resign him, his play makes up for the nut incident

crotch grab incident and all, the guy is worth the MLE :lol

[baseline bum]

I think the Spurs don't need to retool to guard Dirk. When you're able to guard Dirk with Bowen you're ok. The problems arose when they put Bowen on him and Jason Terry and Josh Howard got to the rim at will. Our real problem was in that series had nothing to do with stopping Dirk but with stopping penetration and grabbing rebounds.

I can be convinced that a rebounder will put the Spurs over a "hump" because that was the biggest weakness in both series this year. We got murdered on the glass.

I think we lost this series because we had no one who could block-out Nowitzki. It lost us game 3, and almost lost us game 5. The Spurs were destroyed by Detroit in the season because they could not hang with the Wallace's on the glass. I have worries about Evans though. Why can't this guy get minutes on the floor? You can say he'd average 24 in 48 minutes, but there's gotta be a reason he's only playing 14 minutes a game in the playoffs with no Nene and no K-Mart.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think we lost this series because we had no one who could block-out Nowitzki. It lost us game 3, and almost lost us game 5. The Spurs were destroyed by Detroit in the season because they could not hang with the Wallace's on the glass. I have worries about Evans though. Why can't this guy get minutes on the floor? You can say he'd average 24 in 48 minutes, but there's gotta be a reason he's only playing 14 minutes a game in the playoffs with no Nene and no K-Mart.


I agree with BB. I'm having a hard time jumping on this train. I hope something better emerges in the weeks ahead.

[ducks]

george karl is stupid or does he pick up fouls to much

[baseline bum]

Paxson would get hung if his big offseason acquisition was Rasho.

Hey... it didn't happen to RC in 2003. :lol

[strangeweather]

george karl is stupid or does he pick up fouls to much

Evans never had more than 3 fouls in any of their playoff games.

[nbascribe]

Hmmm......I don't know. I'm like some others here. If he goes for the money, we're screwed. I also don't think he's worth a starting position either. He could definitely solve the rebounding issue but you know how Pop is; he's gotta produce some points to.

[Ginofan]

hey timvp .... how about a sign and trade with nazir and tyson chandler .... tyson chandler has the potential to be a great defender, hes extremely mobile, HE IS THE BEST REBOUNDER IN THE NBA PERIOD cuz he is number 1 in rebounds per 48 minutes and hes a lot younger then Reggie Evans ....i dont know whats tysons contract but it must be huge ... no problem there just add brent barry and beno to the mix .. or even robert horry or oberto and we can match his contract get him here to SA and win the next 3 championships :D ..... Oh yeah and Tyson Chandler can block shots ...

what do u guys think of this ?

and someone plz give me details on Tyson Chandler's contract
Yeah right.

[T Park]

No thanks on Tyson Chandler.

[timvp]

Hopefully, Pop won't read any of this and get the idea that our fans have figured out what went wrong and we now have the answer. There is no Reggie Evans on the Suns Roster and they are doing just fine against the Mavs, thank you.

Have you heard of Shawn Marion? The best rebounding small forward in the league?

Even the Suns' frontcourt of Marion, Thomas and Diaw would dominate the Spurs' small ball lineup on the boards. And don't think there's anyway the Spurs wouldn't go small on them.


IMO we have two rebounders who will do just fine when healthy. One is TD.

Ok.


The other Rasho.

:lmao

Rasho? Rasho's a horrible rebounder. Robert Horry gets more rebounds per 48 minutes than Rasho. Rasho had two games this season where he had double-digit in rebounds.

Thanks for the laughs.


When we have to play 4 bigs and the rest small, and with TD over his plascitus condition, we have the horses to beat anyone.

Welcome to small ball. There's not going to be four centers playing.


None of this had anything to do with rebounding.

Spurs got outrebounded in 11 of their last 12 playoff games. That wasn't a factor in the Spurs losing?


The Spurs will be back. Experience is a helluva a teacher.

The Spurs had a lot more experience than the Mavs and still lost. Experience doesn't grab rebounds.

[timvp]

The offseason is officially here. timvp is pushing out a wacky idea.

Reggie Evans is an interesting thought, but the Spurs #1 priority should be to try to get this guy:

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/112/2094/320/image0.1.jpg

Joel Przybilla, the Fan Thrilla.

Why sign Rasho's brother?

So that Pop can have another overpaid player on the bench getting no minutes when the Spurs play Dallas and Phoenix next year in the postseason?

[timvp]

Another thing that I don't like with the Evans/Duncan is that Evans can't hit a jumpshot.
Miami play too with a dominant center (Shaq) and a garbage player at PF(Haslem), it works so well because Haslem can hit open midrange jumpshots. Teams that double Shaq are punished by Haslem.
With Evans, the opposite team can double Duncan with its two bigs without taking too much risks.

That isn't much of a problem if you spread the floor. Look at what the Mavs did to the Spurs. If Duncan would ever trap or double off of their bigs, they'd have them flash to the paint for easy layups.

As long as the spacing is there and you have shooters on the court, it'd be pretty easy to handle a big man coming off of Evans to double team. Plus, if Evans is alone to rebound if his man is roaming, that's an automatic rebound right there. Same thing happened with Rodman because if you left him, it didn't do much good because he'd be getting the offensive rebound.

[tlongII]

EDIT: Przybilla sucks, Rasho could put up the same numbers on a horrible team like portland. Rasho > Przybilla


Ridiculous. Przybilla would have better numbers if he played on a better team. Nesterovic can't hold his jock strap.

[Bruno]

That isn't much of a problem if you spread the floor. Look at what the Mavs did to the Spurs. If Duncan would ever trap or double off of their bigs, they'd have them flash to the paint for easy layups.

As long as the spacing is there and you have shooters on the court, it'd be pretty easy to handle a big man coming off of Evans to double team. Plus, if Evans is alone to rebound if his man is roaming, that's an automatic rebound right there. Same thing happened with Rodman because if you left him, it didn't do much good because he'd be getting the offensive rebound.

You don't double Duncan when he is far from the basket.
Evans is a so poor offensive player, that the guy who defend on him can just stay near the basket and defend the paint. It won't help Parker or Ginobili when they drive to the basket.
If you don't defend on rasho he can take some jumpshot (remember the Portland game this year when Pryz hasn't take care of him).

Evans offense is mainly one or two post moves and put back on offensive rebounds. No pick-n-roll, no spot up jumpshot, no drives : I think it will hurt Spurs more than what you think.

[Slinkyman]

Ridiculous. Przybilla would have better numbers if he played on a better team. Nesterovic can't hold his jock strap.

Rasho's best season: 8.7 ppg 7.7 rpg 2.0 bpg

vs.

Przybilla's best season: 6.4 ppg 7.7 rpg 2.1 bpg

hmm...

[timvp]

You don't double Duncan when he is far from the basket.
Evans is a so poor offensive player, that the guy who defend on him can just stay near the basket and defend the paint. It won't help Parker or Ginobili when they drive to the basket.
If you don't defend on rasho he can take some jumpshot (remember the Portland game this year when Pryz hasn't take care of him).

Evans offense is mainly one or two post moves and put back on offensive rebounds. No pick-n-roll, no spot up jumpshot, no drives : I think it will hurt Spurs more than what you think.

Evans isn't any worse of an offensive player than Rasho or Nazr. Plus if you are in a situation where you need to spread the floor, Horry will still be around.

Still waiting on the players you'd want the Spurs to go after. Al Harrington pipe dream doesn't count.

[Kori Ellis]

You don't double Duncan when he is far from the basket.
Evans is a so poor offensive player, that the guy who defend on him can just stay near the basket and defend the paint. It won't help Parker or Ginobili when they drive to the basket.
If you don't defend on rasho he can take some jumpshot (remember the Portland game this year when Pryz hasn't take care of him).

Evans offense is mainly one or two post moves and put back on offensive rebounds. No pick-n-roll, no spot up jumpshot, no drives : I think it will hurt Spurs more than what you think.

You are complaining about his offense so much, but he scores relatively the same as Rasho or Nazr.

I understand he doesn't have a lot of moves, but he averaged about 5.6 ppg in 20 mpg this season. Rasho about 5 in 19mpg. Nazr about 6 in 18mpg. (Estimates)

I think his rebounding will make up for his lack of offense.

(Though I don't want to spend the whole MLE on him.)

[Bruno]

You are complaining about his offense so much, but he scores relatively the same as Rasho or Nazr.

I understand he doesn't have a lot of moves, but he averaged about 5.6 ppg in 20 mpg this season. Rasho about 5 in 19mpg. Nazr about 6 in 18mpg. (Estimates)

I think his rebounding will make up for his lack of offense.

(Though I don't want to spend the whole MLE on him.)

I can complain about his defense : Evans is more focus on getting boards than on defend. I can add if you put him on perimeter player like Dirk, his rebounding ability will be less usefull.

For the offense, it's not about how much you scored : 6 points or 8 points won't change a game but if your opponent can let you alone the team defense will be way better.

Evans Offense and rasho offense aren't structured the same way :

Evans :
Single Covered in the Post (31.47% of his offense)
Offensive Rebounds (29.74% of his offense)
Transition (8.62% of his offense)
Spot Up (6.47% of his offense)
Pick and Roll as Roll Man (4.31% of his offense)
One on One/ISO (3.02% of his offense)
Doubled Covered in the Post (2.59% of his offense)
Turns the ball over (16.67% of the time)
Shots off Screens (0.43% of his offense)
Pick and Roll Ball Handler/Doubled (0% of his offense)
Zone (0% of his offense)
Pick and Roll Ball Handler/Single (0% of his offense)
Hand Offs (0% of his offense)

Rasho :
Single Covered in the Post (22.75% of his offense)
Pick and Roll as Roll Man (19.1% of his offense)
Shots off Cuts (17.42% of his offense)
Offensive Rebounds (13.76% of his offense)
Spot Up (13.2% of his offense)
Transition (4.21% of his offense)
Zone (3.37% of his offense)
Doubled Covered in the Post (1.69% of his offense)
Pick and Roll Ball Handler/Single (0.84% of his offense)
Pick and Roll Ball Handler/Doubled (0.28% of his offense)
Hand Offs (0.28% of his offense)
Shots off Screens (0% of his offense)


Rasho's offense has way more pic-n-roll situation and spot up situation : you had to guard him.

[timvp]

Rasho's offense has way more pic-n-roll situation and spot up situation : you had to guard him.

Teams don't guard Rasho. If he hits his jumper, teams deal with it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If he hits his jumper, I party like its 1999

[exstatic]

Realistically? With the fouls being called in the playoffs at this ricockulous pace, Reggie Evans would last about 5 minutes against the Mavs.

[Bruno]

Teams don't guard Rasho. If he hits his jumper, teams deal with it.

If you said so, you know BB better than me.
I remember games when he scored 6-8 points in the first quarter on none after but maybe it's because he sucks and not because the opposite team has made an adjsutemetn on him.

[Spurologist]

Does the Reggie Evans Express have a cup I can use?

[SPARKY]

Forget convention. For every jumper that Evans doesn't take he's making up for it with an offensive board, setting a pick or playing defense against whatever open court team with their trick lineup. How many title teams was Rodman a part of?

[leemajors]

rodman was a much better player than evans will ever be.

[Nbadan]

Evans at less than half (~$2.0-$2.5) the MLE is worth the risk, Evans at the full MLE isn't. He made less than $1 million last season.

[Kori Ellis]

Evans at less than half (~$2.0-$2.5) the MLE is worth the risk, Evans at the full MLE isn't. He made less than $1 million last season.

He made less than a million because he didn't want to stay in Seattle. They offered him 2years/$10M but he turned it down.

However no other team made him ANY offer at all.

I think he'll probably get something like $3M+/year from someone.

I wouldn't pay him full MLE either.

[MI21]

Sign him up.

[strangeweather]

rodman was a much better player than evans will ever be.

On the other hand, Evans may not always get along with folks, but he isn't completely batshit.

So he's got that going for him. Which is nice.

[emmo]

sign him up.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/locke/268836_locke03.html

Locked on Sports: Evans' shady tricks exposed

By DAVID LOCKE
SPECIAL TO THE P-I

The shot went up and they battled for the rebound, with the Clippers' Chris Kaman reaching up for the ball and Denver's Reggie Evans reaching low for Kaman's ....

The classless move by Evans was caught on video for the whole basketball world to see. If anyone in the NBA was surprised, they weren't paying attention to the "Collector" and his career.

From Kevin Garnett to Brian Scalabrine, players in the visitors' locker room at KeyArena sang this tune for all of the years Evans was a Sonic.

Evans' tactics push the limit on a nightly basis. His repertoire is vast -- grabbing a jock strap in order to pull it tight and then snap it, as well as nicely timing pinches to prevent a player from going for a rebound.

Evans has taken a valid part of the basketball world, the tricks of the trade, and pushed it beyond its limits.

Most of the greats had their own tricks.

Early in a game, whenever John Stockton was being run into a pick, he would try to drive his knee into the thigh of the big man trying to screen him. The pick never seemed to be set with the same authority the rest of the night.

Reggie Miller was notorious for his tricks, whether letting his elbows fly in every direction when running off picks, or throwing his feet forward on a jump shot, putting the defender in jeopardy of having his voice increase a few octaves.

Isiah Thomas was a tripper. When defending, he would take a jab step, and then when the offensive player went by, he would trip him to force a turnover.



The tricks exist throughout a game. Jake Voskuhl is known for grabbing players' shorts while running in transition.
Before the hand-check rule, defenders would grab a player on the hip by his waistband, thus holding him still while reaching around to steal the ball. Derek Harper used that trick on Nate McMillan on the opening two plays of McMillan's first playoff game.

Bruce Bowen slides his feet underneath the shooter, putting them in peril when they land.

Charles Oakley was notorious for fouling after the whistle had already blown.

It is the underworld of the game, and Evans took it even further against the Clippers and Kaman.

Truly, Evans missed. He is the inaugurator of the wedgie into the NBA. The man playing Evans is constantly forced to readjust his arrangement throughout the game.

As one NBA person said, "He just grabs their shorts and pulls it up their (rear end). I am not sure what it does other than completely (tick) the guy off."

That is Evans' game. He is in there to infuriate the opponent. Frankly, he is great at it.

Evans didn't enter the league like this. Early in his career, the Sonics were playing the New York Knicks and Kurt Thomas. Evans was stymied the whole night by Thomas' tricks.

After that, Evans started using his own tricks -- grabbing, pinching, holding. Whatever was necessary. When a defender was rotating to get to the shooter, Evans would grab hold of him for the split second needed either for the shot to get off or the ball handler to make his way to the basket.

The haranguing from Sonics opponents last season was constant. It became the loudest from the San Antonio Spurs in the playoffs. Most people thought it was about the play of Danny Fortson. Wrong. Evans was the one drawing the ire.

The propensity to flop makes Evans more infuriating. After he pulls every trick, including those well across the line, he flops the minute the opponent retaliates.

There is a real art to this. The key is Evans' ability to never give up that he is pulling off a charade during a game.

The problem with Evans in Seattle was that the tricks never ended. His own teammates at practices were not spared. On more than one occasion, Vladimir Radmanovic was the victim of Evans antics and completely blew his lid.

Evans' antics on Saturday night fit the mold of making your opponent wonder what insane thing he might do next. No differently than how opponents felt playing Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman or Rick Mahorn.

However, as one longtime NBA person said, "It was the most low-rent thing I have ever seen in over 40 years of basketball."

Evans will eternally be labeled with that stigma. The spotlight will be on his antics. When the next Garnett or Scalabrine claims Evans didn't go after the basketball on the rebound, the claim will be believed.

[timvp]

The Spurs need a couple dirty players.

All nice won the Spurs this year was an early vacation.

[boutons_]

"couple dirty players."

I'd much rather hustling the boards, blocking out, defending, cutting off the pasing lanes, playing hard all around.

Dirt doesn't buy us anything.

Which top teams and players are really intimidated in any noticeable way by dirty play?

Which top/playoff teams this season are at an advantage vs Spurs because they have dirty players and we don't?

Ron and Bonzi didn't play us dirty, just played us hard.
Manu wasn't intimidated by Ron's elbow to the head.

Do you really want a Juwan-Howard-on-DA type of dirt by the Spurs?
Now THAT was effective dirt, costing us our starting PG for playoffs.

[strangeweather]

Truly, Evans missed. He is the inaugurator of the wedgie into the NBA. The man playing Evans is constantly forced to readjust his arrangement throughout the game.

As one NBA person said, "He just grabs their shorts and pulls it up their (rear end). I am not sure what it does other than completely (tick) the guy off."

That is Evans' game. He is in there to infuriate the opponent. Frankly, he is great at it.

:lmao

We totally need to add wedgie-man to our team.

I'm pretty sure I'm not even kidding.

[timvp]

The offseason is officially here. timvp is pushing out a wacky idea.


Wacky like a fox.

Last year, I pushed a trade that would have allowed the Spurs to survive Dirk Nowitzki and small ball. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21057) A lot of Spurs fans thought I was crazy.

Now I'm planning a fishing trip in May.

:pctoss

[ChumpDumper]

Surprised I didn't argue for a few pages in this thread.

A couple of nice chestnuts in there:
Mohammed is going to cost a lot to re-sign. I don't think Spurs fan understand how much he'll be to lockup. If Erick Dampier's contract is north of $70M, Mohammed's price isn't going to be too far behind when it becomes obvious that Mohammed is the better player.
He is short.

He has short arms.

He is slow.

He isn't a good rebounder.

He can't block shots.


That's not called hate...that's called reality.You can guess who is being talked about.

[SenorSpur]

I'm starting to "warm up" to this idea too. I'm sick of seeing the Spurs getting "punked" on the glass. They lost many close games during the regular season and the playoffs because they simply couldn't get stops by controlling defensive rebounds. It's hard to win a championship when your opponent outrebounds you in every game.

Furthermore, they need more offensive rebounds of their own to offset both their notoriously poor FT shooting and lost possessions resulting from turnovers.

Because of the type of team the Mavs have, I knew that their bigs would hit the glass hard. I watched them outrebound opponents all season. Avery often preached the importance of "winning the rebounding battle" to his team and they took heed. Now, they're gunning for a championship.

During the first two championship runs, the Spurs were successful, in part, because they had 2 solid rebounders (Duncan and Robinson), with bench help from Malik. Nazr was often brilliant at controlling the offensive glass, but his limitations are well-documented.

As has been mentioned here, Duncan is the Spurs lone premier rebounder. He needs help. It's vital the Spurs make a move to shore up their pitiful rebounding. Evans would provide much needed muscle and interior defense that is sorely lacking.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I've said we need an enforcer.

I think Evans could fill that role as well, along with our rebounding needs.

[RON ARTEST]

I've said we need an enforcer.

I think Evans could fill that role as well, along with our rebounding needs.
hes an enforcer but he also likes grabbing balls for fun.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

hes an enforcer but he also likes grabbing balls for fun.

This is true.

But he wasn't suspended, so maybe he likes tugging...not grabbing.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

hes an enforcer but he also likes grabbing balls for fun.

Also, you need that.

You need to have that one crazy motherfucker on your team. Like Anthony Mason was. Nobody fucked with him. Shit, I think even the refs were afraid of him.

[Louie Vega]

Also, you need that.

You need to have that one crazy motherfucker on your team. Like Anthony Mason was. Nobody fucked with him. Shit, I think even the refs were afraid of him.

Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley were of the craziest mutha's and thats cause they were on the same team!!! Nobody fucked with them.

[Louie Vega]

Also, you need that.

You need to have that one crazy motherfucker on your team. Like Anthony Mason was. Nobody fucked with him. Shit, I think even the refs were afraid of him.

Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley were 2 of the craziest mutha's and thats cause they were on the same team!!! Nobody fucked with them.

[RON ARTEST]

Also, you need that.

You need to have that one crazy motherfucker on your team. Like Anthony Mason was. Nobody fucked with him. Shit, I think even the refs were afraid of him.
the kings sure as hell have that. :lol

[leemajors]

hes an enforcer but he also likes grabbing balls for fun.

flopper's aren't enforcers. when the going gets tough evans hits the ground, or takes cheap shots at people. fortson was the "enforcer" on that team.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Forget Evans! Get Odom. Trade Trade Brent Barry, Fabricio Oberto, and Rasho Nesterovic to the Lakers for Odom and maybe a draft pick. Then sign Scola and Javtokas to fill in for them. Then sign either Penny Hardaway, Jim Jackson, or Aaron McKie. That'll be the shit! :smokin

[Phenomanul]

Forget Evans! Get Odom. Trade Trade Brent Barry, Fabricio Oberto, and Rasho Nesterovic to the Lakers for Odom and maybe a draft pick. Then sign Scola and Javtokas to fill in for them. Then sign either Penny Hardaway, Jim Jackson, or Aaron McKie. That'll be the shit! :smokin


Barry to the Lakers would make him a Spurs killer... be careful what you wish for...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Barry to the Lakers would make him a Spurs killer... be careful what you wish for...
he had it coming to him so if he is traded he shouldn't be surprised. he was a badass backup for the sonics he was like the 2004 manu when he backed up hedo. now he is just a dud.

[timvp]

Forget Evans! Get Odom. Trade Trade Brent Barry, Fabricio Oberto, and Rasho Nesterovic to the Lakers for Odom and maybe a draft pick. Then sign Scola and Javtokas to fill in for them. Then sign either Penny Hardaway, Jim Jackson, or Aaron McKie. That'll be the shit! :smokin

Yeah why don't the Spurs just trade Rasho for LeBron while you're at it.

:smokin

[whottt]

TimVP...

1.Adding a rebounder to another great rebounder has never been shown to increase the number of rebounds for either player. So why you think putting Evans by Duncan is going to help his rebounding totals is beyond me.


2.Evans has had one impressive rebounding season....it was for a team that took and missed a lot of jump shots...someone had to be the rebounder on that team. Yes the rate was impressive, one of the most impressive in history, but looking at the other years of his career it is easy to see that so far that year is the aberration.


3. Reggie Evans sucks at anything other than rebounding...

4.Pop had guys that could get more rebounds than Michael Finley...he just elected not to play them....Why? Because they couldn't guard Nowitzki...Evans can't either.


In closing...

I have to veto this Evans idea...

Too expensive, not a good defender, not a good scorer, not guaranteed to not be sat on the bench, stupidly by Pop, as we stupidly lose a series, not what we need here.

What is needed is a player that doesn't make Pop stupid...

Next.......

[timvp]

1.Adding a rebounder to another great rebounder has never been shown to increase the number of rebounds for either player. So why you think putting Evans by Duncan is going to help his rebounding totals is beyond me.


Huh?

I don't care about individual rebounding numbers. I care about how well the team rebounds. Getting outrebounded in 11 of the final 12 playoff games this year was disgusting.

And to further hurt your point, look at what happened when the Spurs added Dennis Rodman to David Robinson.

--In 1993, the Spurs were outrebounded in the regular season.
--In 1994, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 7 boards a game.
--In 1995, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 5 boards a game.
--In 1996, the Spurs traded Dennis Rodman and were again outrebounded in the regular season.

So, uh, yeah having two great rebounders helps your team rebounding. Who cares what the individual numbers are?


2.Evans has had one impressive rebounding season....it was for a team that took and missed a lot of jump shots...someone had to be the rebounder on that team. Yes the rate was impressive, one of the most impressive in history, but looking at the other years of his career it is easy to see that so far that year is the aberration.

What?

Evans has been a monster on the boards his whole career.

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
2003 - 13.0
2004 - 12.8
2005 - 15.7
2006 w/ Seattle - 14.0
2006 w/ Denver - 15.0

Evans started most of the games in 2005. That was his one true chance so far in the NBA. Once he was traded to Denver last year, he put up about the same numbers.


3. Reggie Evans sucks at anything other than rebounding...

So did Dennis Rodman and how many rings does he have? Ben Wallace at one point in time was just a rebounder. Back then, timvp was on record as saying he wanted the Spurs to sign Wallace.

Back then, people told him that Wallace was only a rebounder and his limited offensive game would mix well with Duncan and Robinson.

Oops.


4.Pop had guys that could get more rebounds than Michael Finley...he just elected not to play them....Why? Because they couldn't guard Nowitzki...Evans can't either.

Evans is quick enough to play versus Dallas. You can buy minutes by putting him on Dirk. You could probably also get away with putting him on Howard.

What the Spurs can't get away with is getting outrebounded in all 7 games of a playoff series.


In closing...

I have to veto this Evans idea...

Good thing you aren't GM or we'd have Shane Heal running the point.


Too expensive, not a good defender, not a good scorer, not guaranteed to not be sat on the bench, stupidly by Pop, as we stupidly lose a series, not what we need here.

What is needed is a player that doesn't make Pop stupid...

Next.......

Another person who shoots down the idea without giving a name.

Who do you propose?

Waiting.

[whottt]

Huh?

I don't care about individual rebounding numbers. I care about how well the team rebounds. Getting outrebounded in 11 of the final 12 playoff games this year was disgusting.

And to further hurt your point, look at what happened when the Spurs added Dennis Rodman to David Robinson.


And both Drod and Rodman's numbers dropped.


--In 1993, the Spurs were outrebounded in the regular season.
--In 1994, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 7 boards a game.
--In 1995, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 5 boards a game.
--In 1996, the Spurs traded Dennis Rodman and were again outrebounded in the regular season.

So, uh, yeah having two great rebounders helps your team rebounding. Who cares what the individual numbers are?


Hmmmm...


I think if the Spurs sign Evans and put him next to Duncan, he could lead the league in rebounds.

Your point, not mine...and I don't know why you think Evans is all of a sudden going to see an increase in minutes when he joins a team that already has an elite rebounder....

His rebounding is the only thing that gets him on the court as it is, and it doesn't even do that sufficiently to make him a full time player, even on teams desperate for rebounds...which the Spurs aren't.




What?

Evans has been a monster on the boards his whole career.

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
2003 - 13.0
2004 - 12.8
2005 - 15.7
2006 w/ Seattle - 14.0
2006 w/ Denver - 15.0

Evans started most of the games in 2005. That was his one true chance so far in the NBA. Once he was traded to Denver last year, he put up about the same numbers.


Per 48 is not what I was referring too...and at no point have I claimed Evans was not a good rebounder.

But the stat I was referring to was "rebounding rate" and Evans last Seattle season was of historic proportions...but it's the only one you could truly argue was...and it's not anywhere near Rodman's rate. And that rate will go down once being paired with Duncan...potentially it could help our rebounding...potentially, Nazr could have helped our rebounding and with Dirk defending him he could have potentially done a lot more than that...

But Pop doesn't think that way....Pop thinks stupidly on such matters. He doesn't consider the fact that we could create matchup problems for other teams...only that they can create them for us.


But the bottom line is, all you are going to get is rebounding, it's his rate that makes him spectacular, and guranteed, that will go down on a team with Duncan(or Duncan's will,) and it is unlikely that his rebounding and that alone is going to get him on the court enough to...lead the league in rebounding.

Adding him could have helped our rebounds...so could have Nazr.









So did Dennis Rodman and how many rings does he have? Ben Wallace at one point in time was just a rebounder. Back then, timvp was on record as saying he wanted the Spurs to sign Wallace.

Back then, people told him that Wallace was only a rebounder and his limited offensive game would mix well with Duncan and Robinson.

Oops.


Wallace was better defensively, and in shotblocking and steals, from the day he stepped on the court than Evans. Wallce sucked horribly on offense...Evans does too, and he can't defend, block shots, or steal the ball like Wallce could.





Evans is quick enough to play versus Dallas. You can buy minutes by putting him on Dirk. You could probably also get away with putting him on Howard.

Famous last words....We could have also gotten away with puttin Horry on Dirk, or even Nazr and Rasho...

I guess I could understand not doing that if what we did instead in any way shape or form stopped Dirk...however it didn't...and all we did was make him an even better rebounder.



What the Spurs can't get away with is getting outrebounded in all 7 games of a playoff series.

Pop's decision...




Good thing you aren't GM or we'd have Shane Heal running the point.

AS opposed to Anthony "physically unable to step on the court" Carter?

Yeah...too bad I wasn't the GM.






Another person who shoots down the idea without giving a name.

Who do you propose?

Waiting.


Gave it weeks ago before our season was even over...Trevor Ariza. And there are at least 2 others I'd go after before Evans as well...

You overlook the Pop factor, not to mention Evans is not a good defender.

[whottt]

Reggie Evans sucks at anything other than rebounding...





So did Dennis Rodman and how many rings does he have?


Worst post in the history of TimVP.

[T Park]

Gave it weeks ago before our season was even over...Trevor Ariza

when did Trevor Ariza become a big man?

[whottt]

when did Trevor Ariza become a big man?

Read more, post less.

[T Park]

Nice sidestep.

Once again, Spurs need a bigman,


how is Trevor Ariza a solution for the bigman?

[whottt]

Nice sidestep.

Once again, Spurs need a bigman,


how is Trevor Ariza a solution for the bigman?


:wtf



Link to prove where that is what this thread is about?

[T Park]

:lol


whatever...

[whottt]

You laugh because I elect not to take a fruitless and useless walk down the path of stupidity with you?

Ignorance truly is bliss.

[T Park]

I laugh because we are talking about rebounding big men, and you bring up a 12th man scrub Mrs Heal.

[whottt]

The mountain does not come to stupid...stupid must come to the mountain.

[timvp]

And both Drod and Rodman's numbers dropped.

First of all, who cares if they dropped? Basketball is a team game, remember?

Second of all, Rodman posted the best rebounding season of his career as a Spur.

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
1992 -- 18.5
1993 -- 18.8
1994 -- 18.3
1995 -- 21.0
1996 -- 18.2
1997 -- 18.1

Rodman was a Spur in 1994 and 1995. His rebounding numbers dropped? Really? :lol

I know you were just a little kid around this time, but at least check your history before barking at the big dawg in this neighborhood.


Hmmmm...

Your point, not mine...and I don't know why you think Evans is all of a sudden going to see an increase in minutes when he joins a team that already has an elite rebounder....

His rebounding is the only thing that gets him on the court as it is, and it doesn't even do that sufficiently to make him a full time player, even on teams desperate for rebounds...which the Spurs aren't.

:lmao

The Spurs aren't desperate for rebounding? Did you watch the playoffs. The Spurs got outrebounded in 11 of their last 12 playoff games. How much more desperate can you get?


Look back to 2003. In the 24 playoff games that year, the Spurs won the rebounding battle 15 times. In those 15 games, the Spurs were 11-4. In the 9 games they lost the rebounding battle, they were 5-4.

Even more telling, look at the Spurs and Mavs series in 2003. The Spurs were outrebounded in Game 1 and lost. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Games 2, 3 and 4 and won each of those games. The Mavs outrebounded the Spurs in Game 5 and won. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Game 6 and won the series. So in summation, the Spurs were 4-0 when outrebounding the Mavs and 0-2 when the Mavs had more rebounds.

See a pattern yet? With the way the Spurs were dominated on the glass this year, they were lucky to even have pushed it to 7 games.

Not desperate for rebounds? You must be crazay.


Per 48 is not what I was referring too...and at no point have I claimed Evans was not a good rebounder.

But the stat I was referring to was "rebounding rate" and Evans last Seattle season was of historic proportions...but it's the only one you could truly argue was...and it's not anywhere near Rodman's rate.

It was the best rebounding rate All-Time by somoene who isn't named Dennis Rodman.


And that rate will go down once being paired with Duncan

Uh, you do know that Rodman's two best rebounding years were with the Spurs, right. You know, when he was paired with that big buy out of the Naval Academy.

Repeat, Rodman's best two years as far as rebounding rate go were as a Spur.

Whoops.


...potentially it could help our rebounding

There's nothing potential about it.


...potentially, Nazr could have helped our rebounding and with Dirk defending him he could have potentially done a lot more than that...

Yeah, Nazr the postup threat would have done major damage on Dirk :lmao


But Pop doesn't think that way....Pop thinks stupidly on such matters. He doesn't consider the fact that we could create matchup problems for other teams...only that they can create them for us.

Pop is also on record as saying missed rebounds in Games 3 and 4 cost the Spurs. You don't think he'd want to try to fix that.

A guy who can go down as one of the best rebounders of All-Time is available but you don't want him?

Classic.


But the bottom line is, all you are going to get is rebounding, it's his rate that makes him spectacular, and guranteed, that will go down on a team with Duncan

Just like Rodman's rate went down with Robinson, right?


and it is unlikely that his rebounding and that alone is going to get him on the court enough to...lead the league in rebounding.

Play him 25 to 30 minutes a game and he'll get you 10-12 boards easy.


Adding him could have helped our rebounds...so could have Nazr.

Nazr is big, slow and dumb as a post. Evans is quick and crafty.



I guess I could understand not doing that if what we did instead in any way shape or form stopped Dirk...however it didn't...and all we did was make him an even better rebounder.

Evans would make the Spurs the better rebounding team by himself.


Gave it weeks ago before our season was even over...Trevor Ariza.

I like Ariza as well but he's restricted. Plus him and Evans have about as good of jumpers. Plus Ariza isn't a power forward. Plus Ariza has a rep of being lazy and not wanting to work hard. Evans is an undrafted free agent who lives in the gym.


And there are at least 2 others I'd go after before Evans as well...


Names?


You overlook the Pop factor, not to mention Evans is not a good defender.

Pop will play productive players. He doesn't play you if you can't matchup and don't give him an advantage at the offer end. Rasho and Nazr hurt you on offense and defense. And toward the end of the season Nazr stopped rebounding. There was no plus to playing them other than having a token big out there.

Evans can learn to be a good defender. Bob Hill and Bob Weiss aren't exactly defensive coaches.

Evans already is pretty good. He gives Duncan trouble and if you look at the stats, Evans was the best defender per minute of anyone on the Sonics who played quality minutes.

The tools are there. The rebounding numbers are there. The Spurs need rebounding. If they don't address that need, next season is over before it starts.

Reggie Evans is the answer.

[whottt]

First of all, who cares if they dropped? Basketball is a team game, remember?

You do...when you claim that putting him next to Duncan will allow him to lead the league in rebounds.



Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
1992 -- 18.5
1993 -- 18.8
1994 -- 18.3
1995 -- 21.0
1996 -- 18.2
1997 -- 18.1

Rodman was a Spur in 1994 and 1995. His rebounding numbers dropped? Really? :lol

I know you were just a little kid around this time, but at least check your history before barking at the big dawg in this neighborhood.

That's not the stat I was referring to as rebounding rate...

Rebounding rate is the % of available rebounds the player has a legitimate chance of getting to and gets to...


93-94 was in fact the 5th best of Rodman's career, it was a drop from the previous year, as was his RPG total...

94-95 actually was Rodman's best year in terms of rebounding rate...there's just one problem with that...he only played in 49 games.

IOW, sticking Rodman next to David Robinson did not help him lead the league in rebounds, nor did it improve his rebounding rate in a provable way..but it did decline the initial year in a provable way.




:lmao

The Spurs aren't desperate for rebounding? Did you watch the playoffs. The Spurs got outrebounded in 11 of their last 12 playoff games. How much more desperate can you get?


Desperate enough to put Nazr, Horry or Rasho in?



Look back to 2003. In the 24 playoff games that year, the Spurs won the rebounding battle 15 times. In those 15 games, the Spurs were 11-4. In the 9 games they lost the rebounding battle, they were 5-4.

Ya well...Pop wasn't playing a 6'7 2 guard as his PF...


Even more telling, look at the Spurs and Mavs series in 2003. The Spurs were outrebounded in Game 1 and lost. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Games 2, 3 and 4 and won each of those games. The Mavs outrebounded the Spurs in Game 5 and won. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Game 6 and won the series. So in summation, the Spurs were 4-0 when outrebounding the Mavs and 0-2 when the Mavs had more rebounds.

See a pattern yet? With the way the Spurs were dominated on the glass this year, they were lucky to even have pushed it to 7 games.

Not desperate for rebounds? You must be crazay.


No desperate enough to play a rebounder...obviously.








Uh, you do know that Rodman's two best rebounding years were with the Spurs, right. You know, when he was paired with that big buy out of the Naval Academy.

Repeat, Rodman's best two years as far as rebounding rate go were as a Spur.

Wrong and wrong...again, the first year was the 5th best of his career, the second year was indeed the best...but again, he missed nearly half the season.

Whoops.




There's nothing potential about it.


Potentially Pop may not value those rebounds enough to play him...still want to argue this? I sugges you take a look at the past playoffs and Pop's history of stubborness if you still think his ability to help the team is based on anything more than potential.




Yeah, Nazr the postup threat would have done major damage on Dirk :lmao

Nazr the offensive rebounding machine and dunk threat could have certainly given Dirk more problems than Finley...




Pop is also on record as saying missed rebounds in Games 3 and 4 cost the Spurs. You don't think he'd want to try to fix that.


You'd think he would...but he didn't want to fix it bad enough to actually put a rebounder in the game...instead he tried to turn a collection of 2 guards into Bill Russel.


A guy who can go down as one of the best rebounders of All-Time is available but you don't want him?

Classic.


It doesn't solve our matchup problems with the Mavs....it doesn't solve our aging and size perimeter D problem.

Our biggest problem.




Just like Rodman's rate went down with Robinson, right?

Yes, just like that in fact...moreso...because Duncan is a better rebounder than Drob was and Drob was busy doing everything else those two years anyway.




Play him 25 to 30 minutes a game and he'll get you 10-12 boards easy.

Play Nazr those minutes against a team like the Mavs and he will clean glass too, he'll also block some shots, and get some dunks...





Nazr is big, slow and dumb as a post. Evans is quick and crafty.

Nazr can be a dumbass...and so can Reggie Evans. Don't act like he's Robert Horry...he's not.





Evans would make the Spurs the better rebounding team by himself.

Not if he sits as much as Nazr did...which is possible, since he can't defend any better has no offensive ability and is just as capable of being a dumbass as Nazr.




I like Ariza as well but he's restricted. Plus him and Evans have about as good of jumpers. Plus Ariza isn't a power forward. Plus Ariza has a rep of being lazy and not wanting to work hard. Evans is an undrafted free agent who lives in the gym.


We've got all sorts of PF and C prospects...

What we do not have, is a long SF capable of defeding the big ass perimeter players in the NBA.










Pop will play productive players. He doesn't play you if you can't matchup and don't give him an advantage at the offer end. Rasho and Nazr hurt you on offense and defense. And toward the end of the season Nazr stopped rebounding. There was no plus to playing them other than having a token big out there.

Nazr can suck...he can also go off...he never go the chance in the Mavs series.


Evans can learn to be a good defender. Bob Hill and Bob Weiss aren't exactly defensive coaches.

Evans already is pretty good. He gives Duncan trouble and if you look at the stats, Evans was the best defender per minute of anyone on the Sonics who played quality minutes.

The tools are there. The rebounding numbers are there. The Spurs need rebounding. If they don't address that need, next season is over before it starts.

Reggie Evans is the answer.


Too slow, too much of a dumbass, likely too expensive, not good enough. Not what we need here. :smokin


We need a long SF that can be played at the PF position in a small ball lineup, defense is a premium, the ability to take advantage of Dirk on offense would be nice as well, Ariza has the skill set to do both of these things...and he's a pretty decent rebunder for a 21 year old. This is the only way to short circuit Pop's stubborness...and btw Ariza has shown rebounding potential...and he can score on Dirk's ass.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not going to get way into this argument because I think Reggie Evans would be a good pickup for less than $2M but I don't think he'll come that cheap.

Anyway ...


We need a long SF that can be played at the PF position in a small ball lineup, defense is a premium, the ability to take advantage of Dirk on offense would be nice as well, Ariza has the skill set to do both of these things...and he's a pretty decent rebunder for a 21 year old.

You realize that Ariza is Bowen-size, right?

I wouldn't mind picking him up for cheaper either, but he's not the answer for long 3/athletic 4. The Spurs are looking for a player who is around 6'10.

[Kori Ellis]

One good thing about Ariza is wingspan though. He has a 7'2 wingspan which is really good for a 6'7 guy. Since he's restricted though, it will be nearly impossible to pick him up. When was the last time the Spurs offered a restricted free agent a contract and got him?

[whottt]

You realize that Ariza is Bowen-size, right?

I wouldn't mind picking him up for cheaper either, but he's not the answer for long 3/athletic 4. The Spurs are looking for a player who is around 6'10.



He's taller than Bowen and longer than Bowen, he's also about 15 years younger than Bowen...and yes he is light, but he's also barely 21 years old.

Reggie Evans is only 6'8 as well...


If our need is a rebounder than can't defend Dirk and has no offensive game...we had one in the Mavs series...his name was Nazr. Didn't help much.


Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

We've need a long defensive oriented SF for years now and Ariza is that...he's also got hops and can get to the basket.


The 6'10 player which you seek, does not exist in the NBA at this time...at least not to where we can get him.

And come to think of it...if we had 2 Bruce Bowens, we might have had more luck in this series.

[whottt]

One good thing about Ariza is wingspan though. He has a 7'2 wingspan which is really good for a 6'7 guy. Since he's restricted though, it will be nearly impossible to pick him up. When was the last time the Spurs offered a restricted free agent a contract and got him?


The Magic do not need a SF....they have a 70 million paryoll and are going to have a 51 million dollar payroll next season...

They aren't known as a tight franchise, but damn, they aren't even making the playoffs.


And I have posted an article that says the Magic likely will not go over the minimum to sign Ariza....

At the very least they might be interest in a S&T with him.

[Kori Ellis]

The Magic do not need a SF....they have a 70 million paryoll and are going to have a 51 million dollar payroll next season...

They aren't known as a tight franchise, but damn, they aren't even making the playoffs.


And I have posted an article that says the Magic likely will not go over the minimum to sign Ariza....

At the very least they might be interest in a S&T with him.

I'm not disliking Ariza -- he's from UCLA for God sake -- that makes him golden in my eyes.

I'm just saying that the Spurs are going to look at guys that are 6'9-6'10 first. Ariza was measured at 6'7 going into the draft. Maybe he's grown *shrug*

And I like the guy, but don't think that the Spurs can get him. Just like Jared Jeffries, getting a restricted FA won't be easy.

If Nazr and/or Rasho are on the way out, I think the Spurs will pick up a guy who is more of a PF though and play him along side Duncan.

[whottt]

The Spurs had a defending championship team....they let their starting 6'8 2 guard walk,....you think other teams won't do stuff like that?


And it's not like Ariza has one foot in the door of Springfield already or anything....he's not that good...yet.

[Kori Ellis]

It's not like Ariza has one foot in the door of Springfield already or anything.

:lol I know that. I just think the Magic might keep him. There were rumors of them package Hedo in a trade. If that happens, then Ariza likely stays. If it doesn't happen, then I'm sure a team other than the Spurs will be looking at Ariza too. Restricted free agency sucks.

[MannyIsGod]

I saw Devin Brown today. There's no fucking way he's 6'8". He didn't look much taller than Chris.

[Kori Ellis]

I saw Devin Brown today. There's no fucking way he's 6'8". He didn't look much taller than Chris.

He's talking about Stephen Jackson not Devin Brown.

[timvp]

Devin Brown is about 6-foot-3. He's only listed at 6-foot-5 so it's not that much of a lie.

[timvp]

When was the last time the Spurs offered a restricted free agent a contract and got him?

Never happened.

[whottt]

Hedo was balling this year...fuck it...if they want to trade Hedo...let's get on it then. Hedo can defense...he is custom made to defend guys like Dirk, and Artest and Bonzi...Hedo can get to the basket too. As long as no on dares him to shoot we'll be ok.


The other thing that has changed with the need to be able to play small ball?

We don't need shooting like we used too, especially against the Suns...and AJ aint going to give it to us....besides, we don't have lack shooting anymore, we are loaded with it...what we need is a guy that can force Dirk to play some interior D either with slashing or a post up game...Ariza can to the basket...

Let's Dirk play a little D and see how those legs hold up for those 4th quarter J's...

[timvp]

Oh and I'll be back to get ya, whottt.

[MannyIsGod]

That makes more sense (Jax).

If it were to come down to Arriza or Evans, I'd probably go with Arriza. But Evans for 2 mil is a pretty sweet deal. Man, I hate playing small ball.

[timvp]

P.S.

Dirk would guard Bowen, not Ariza.

[whottt]

Mercy Uncle

[Kori Ellis]

We are actually going to take a nap, so timvp won't be answering you for a few hours. :princess

[whottt]

So basically TimVP needs his manhood restored after this destruction of his Evans argument...got it :). You go girl. :smokin

[MannyIsGod]

The direction the Spurs go in this offseason really depends on what Pop is going to do in the future. If he's going to ride this small ball wave, then he's going to need a longer 3. If he's going to go with a more traditional lineup, then obviously a typical PF or C would be better.

I'd much rather see a Spurs team that doesn't play small ball. It is one thing to try to matchup, but if your opponent gives you a matchup problem there is a damn good chacne you also present them with a situation they can't cope with. Then at least you can force your will on them as oposed to simply rolling over and trying to beat a team at their own game.

The dream player is a PF who can box out and get a good number of boards but spread the floor as well. Someone who can hit a 15 foot jumpshot with some decent consistency. If the Spurs can bring ina rebounder who can shoot, then we don't need to give into any teams smaller lineups because we'll present a difficult situation on the offenseive end as well.

I just feel that if Pop is really going small next year, theres not a single person out there we can realisitcly get that can help us.

And fuck Hedo. Whottt, you sadden me by suggesting that shit.

[whottt]

Spurs need a player that will keep Pop out of dumbass mode...I say this player is not Evans, it's Ariza.

And yes...I would take Hedo back at this point...yes he's a choking bitch but since AJ defends the 3 line and the Suns don't defend anything I don't expect this to be an issue, plus Hedo can drive.

We don't need shooting like we used too....if we did, I wouldn't want Hedo.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't agree that we don't need Hedo. Dallas is one team. Anyone we play out of the east is going to require we have shooting. You're not going to beat a Detroit or Miami without a good deal of shooting.

[MannyIsGod]

Also, if you put a bunch of non shooters in the game, all of a sudden you can't drive and Tim is seeing doubles at an insane pace.

If Tony had been hitting his jumpers at a better rate, our shooters would have been much better situations. The best quaters the Spurs had in the series were when they were able to get a good drive and kick game going after the doubles came on Tim. Shooting is still very much a key in this offense, and we can't start dumping shooters from the lineup.

[whottt]

I don't agree that we don't need Hedo. Dallas is one team. Anyone we play out of the east is going to require we have shooting. You're not going to beat a Detroit or Miami without a good deal of shooting.

But Dallas is the team that we can't beat right now...and other teams that will present similar problems in the future...like who guards Amare? Or Artest? or Lamar Odom? Or Tmac? etc...

Shooting we've got it...and we don't have to give any up to get Ariza or Hedo.

It's not our need...and if we give anything up for Hedo it will likely be Rasho...

[whottt]

Also, if you put a bunch of non shooters in the game, all of a sudden you can't drive and Tim is seeing doubles at an insane pace.

Who says we have to put a bunch of non shooters on the court? Bruce is a shooter BTW...Parker is good enough and so is Manu..plus we still have Finley, and Horry, and Barry, and Beno.


If Tony had been hitting his jumpers at a better rate, our shooters would have been much better situations. The best quaters the Spurs had in the series were when they were able to get a good drive and kick game going after the doubles came on Tim. Shooting is still very much a key in this offense, and we can't start dumping shooters from the lineup.


This is the first time I've seen it argued that our problems against the Mavs were on offense...we tore them up offensively, and we did it without hitting many threes. The threes we did hit were transitional.

[ShoogarBear]

Hedo coming back?

:lmao

What makes you think he'd want to come back, even if the Spurs wanted him?

And there must be some law of thermodynamics that says that Hedo and Brent Barry cannot be on the same team.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm on board with bringing back Hedo. If we just kick a guy to the curb for having a bad shooting playoffs, Horry would be gone from this team twice already. You need closers, but you also need guys to play the rest of the game too.

Everything I've seen points to Hedo having good relations with his former teammates. I haven't seen anything with Pop. It's a fair bet that, had the Spurs had the room, Hedo wold've been kept along with Manu. They had to make a choice.

I'm never really saw much evidence of Ariza being defensively oriented, but I imagine whottt saw more Knick games that I did. Ariza didn't do shit against Dallas but was very productive late in the season. Hedo blew up in April and played very well against Dallas and Phoenix -- and we all know about his defense.

At this point, I would rather have Hedo than Rasho or Barry. The money being relatively equal, which would you rather have?

[timvp]

You do...when you claim that putting him next to Duncan will allow him to lead the league in rebounds.

Give him the minutes and Evans will produce. Rodman's was the same with our without Robinson. Great rebounders rebound. Evans got rebounds even when he had another great rebounder (Fortson) next to him.




That's not the stat I was referring to as rebounding rate...

Rebounding rate is the % of available rebounds the player has a legitimate chance of getting to and gets to...


93-94 was in fact the 5th best of Rodman's career, it was a drop from the previous year, as was his RPG total...



Best Rebound Rates
Since 1970-71
(min. 500 minutes)
Player Year Rate
Dennis Rodman 1994-95 29.7
Dennis Rodman 1993-94 29.6
Dennis Rodman 1995-96 26.6
Dennis Rodman 1991-92 26.2
Dennis Rodman 1992-93 26.0
Dennis Rodman 1996-97 25.7
Reggie Evans 2004-05 24.5
Dennis Rodman 1997-98 24.0
Ben Wallace 2002-03 23.2
Moses Malone 1979-80 23.2

Hollinger > whottt


94-95 actually was Rodman's best year in terms of rebounding rate...there's just one problem with that...he only played in 49 games.

IOW, sticking Rodman next to David Robinson did not help him lead the league in rebounds, nor did it improve his rebounding rate in a provable way..but it did decline the initial year in a provable way.

Okay, lets use the basketball-refence stats that you are using (even though I'd trust Hollinger over you). Even if you go by those stats,

1992 -- 26.2
1993 -- 26.0
1994 -- 25.7

You are calling that .3 a significant drop? :lol

Ok so Reggie Evans will have a rebounding rate of 23.7 instead of 24 :jack


Desperate enough to put Nazr, Horry or Rasho in?

Nazr and Rasho were sucking and Horry wasn't rebounding.



Ya well...Pop wasn't playing a 6'7 2 guard as his PF...

Maybe if he had a 6'8 rebounder he'd have options.



No desperate enough to play a rebounder...obviously.

Didn't have a rebounder who could play against quick players, obviously.



Wrong and wrong...again, the first year was the 5th best of his career, the second year was indeed the best...but again, he missed nearly half the season.

Whoops.

Not according to Hollinger.

And after the 1995 season, the next four seasons were all very close together. Don't act there was a significant rise or drop before or after he was with the Spurs.





Potentially Pop may not value those rebounds enough to play him...still want to argue this? I sugges you take a look at the past playoffs and Pop's history of stubborness if you still think his ability to help the team is based on anything more than potential.


Show me a rebounder the Spurs had who could stay with the Mavs' quick lineup.




Nazr the offensive rebounding machine and dunk threat could have certainly given Dirk more problems than Finley...


I don't think Nazr dunked since the All-Star break. Nazr had no chance to guard Dirk. Dirk is a 7-foot-1 shooting guard. Nazr would have been eaten alive.




You'd think he would...but he didn't want to fix it bad enough to actually put a rebounder in the game...instead he tried to turn a collection of 2 guards into Bill Russel.

Name the rebounding power forward the Spurs had who could have helped.



It doesn't solve our matchup problems with the Mavs....it doesn't solve our aging and size perimeter D problem.

Our biggest problem.

It solves the rebounding problem. That problem trumps all the other problems.


Yes, just like that in fact...moreso...because Duncan is a better rebounder than Drob was and Drob was busy doing everything else those two years anyway.

I've never seen Duncan lead the league in rebounding like David did before and after Rodman.





Play Nazr those minutes against a team like the Mavs and he will clean glass too, he'll also block some shots, and get some dunks...

:lol

Nazr would get abused on every play or else you'd have to put Duncan on Dirk and then Duncan is fouled out by halftime. You seem to think Nazr is good. You must have missed the end of the season and the playoffs.



Nazr can be a dumbass...and so can Reggie Evans. Don't act like he's Robert Horry...he's not.

Reggie Evans always rebounds. Nazr doesn't.





Not if he sits as much as Nazr did...which is possible, since he can't defend any better has no offensive ability and is just as capable of being a dumbass as Nazr.

Reggie Evans is quick.

Nazr isn't.



We've got all sorts of PF and C prospects...

What we do not have, is a long SF capable of defeding the big ass perimeter players in the NBA.


So you cry your whole post about Pop playing small ball and then you want a small forward to play power forward in small ball next year. Isn't that what lost it this year?








Nazr can suck...he can also go off...he never go the chance in the Mavs series.

Uh, yeah he did. He played one minute and started an 8-0 run.

That was enough of a look.



Too slow, too much of a dumbass, likely too expensive, not good enough. Not what we need here. :smokin

And you come up with a restrictive free agent who is a 20 year old small forward. That's what you want to go to war with?

Where are the other names? I see you happened to forget to quote that part of my post :lol


We need a long SF that can be played at the PF position in a small ball lineup, defense is a premium, the ability to take advantage of Dirk on offense would be nice as well, Ariza has the skill set to do both of these things...and he's a pretty decent rebunder for a 21 year old. This is the only way to short circuit Pop's stubborness...and btw Ariza has shown rebounding potential

Again, I don't want a small forward playing power forward again next playoffs. The Spurs need to have a real power forward. Dallas has Dirk. Miami has Haslem. The Pistons have Wallace. The Suns have Diaw, Marion and next year Amare. The Spurs can't counter with a small forward. You are just setting yourself up for another playoff disaster.

The Spurs need a power forward who can play power forward. I don't know what is so hard to understand. And this player has to do one thing well ... rebound. Yeah, I wish the person was a three point shooting, Magic Johnson passing, Mark Eaton shotblocking machine, but there's nothing like that on the market. Reggie Evans fills the Spurs major need and that is rebounding.

A 20 year old small forward is not who I want going against Dirk or Amare or Haslem or Wallace.

Come on now. Stop thinking like a loser.

You know the Spurs can't win a championship if they are outrebounded 11 of 12 playoff games. Fix the problem. Get a power forward who can play power forward and rebound.

Reggie Evans is that man.


...and he can score on Dirk's ass.

Too much information.

[timvp]

Despite an earlier report to the contrary, the Magic likely will match any reasonable offer that restricted free-agent forward Trevor Ariza receives this summer. Ariza came to the Magic last season from the New York Knicks as part of the trade involving guard Steve Francis, and the Magic like his open-court abilities and offensive rebounding.

Just like I told you. The Magic aren't going to give away Ariza. To get him you'd have to throw your entire MLE at him.

[timvp]

Just like I told you. The Magic aren't going to give away Ariza. To get him you'd have to throw your entire MLE at him.

And even then, it's not a guarantee. The Spurs have signed and gotten a grand total of zero ( 0 ) restricted free agents in their history. They've won three championships. They've gotten zero restricted free agents in history.

Think realistic. Think logical. Think about what the Spurs need.

Reggie Evan in Oh Seven.

[SPARKY]

Reggie Evans makes sense on multiple levels. He fills a need, he's underappreciated around the league, and his price will be (relatively) low. Sounds a bit like Bruce before the Spurs signed him to a minimum contract.

[tempe85]

Grabbing someone in the nutsack is definitely a step in the right direction if Evans wants to be a modern day Worm. :lol

But seriously Evans is a monster on the boards.... probably the best in the league.... and no body knows it.

[Streakyshooter08]

I am really into the idea of having one of the best rebounders joining our team.

I would like to know how his 1-1 defense is and if he is able to be a effective team defender. What do you think, I haven't seen him play for a while.

[strangeweather]

It would be great to see the Spurs get Evans' rebounding.

The main thing that worries me is that it gives other teams the easy double team on Tim again. The best part of the Dallas series was watching Tim with 4 guys around him who could shoot and space the floor. We haven't had that in a long time, and it was awesome watching him turn into a one-man wrecking crew on offense.

I know that guys like Al Harrington are a damn pipe dream, but if we could just find a PF with decent range somehow....

[picnroll]

I think the Spurs are ideally suited for small ball, if they can get the right player they will pose hellacious matchups for most teams. One MAJOR advantage they have in small ball is their big, Duncan, is a top of the line big on both sides of the floor. There are VERY few teams that have that player. What they need is a good big SF/small PF type like Odom, Kirilenko, Harrington, a guy that can rebound, play good D and has offensive skills. Not that they can get that player but if they can they are going to be killas. They still have the slugs in Rasho and probably Javtokas to wrestle with the few decent offensive bigs like Shaq and Yao. Think against the Mavs if they had been able to put a Kirilenko/Odom type on the floor against Dirk and Diop or Damp.

[FromWayDowntown]

I know that guys like Al Harrington are a damn pipe dream, but if we could just find a PF with decent range somehow....

I keep thinking about Pop's statement that he's looking for a Derrick McKey-type. Of all the players of recent vintage to choose, McKey is an interesting player to model your search on.

Pop may have been talking out of his ass, but I doubt it. Frankly, I think Pop has someone specific in mind -- someone he thinks is similar in stature and game to McKey. And, clearly, the intent is that whoever it is will come here to be a defensive-minded role player and little more. It's not about finding a guy with offensive range who can spread the floor. It's about finding a guy who won't get in the way too much and will take only good shots on the offensive end, while providing a long defensive presence that can make a difference against big, athletic players. Again, I don't know if Reggie Evans is that guy, but he'd certainly give them some much-needed rebounding help.

On a side note, Evans makes more sense if you find it hard to believe that Pop would rely on both Javtokas and Scola as rookies in the same season. I think that much rookie play would be more than Pop could handle.

[strangeweather]

I keep thinking about Pop's statement that he's looking for a Derrick McKey-type. Of all the players of recent vintage to choose, McKey is an interesting player to model your search on.

Pop may have been talking out of his ass, but I doubt it. Frankly, I think Pop has someone specific in mind -- someone he thinks is similar in stature and game to McKey. And, clearly, the intent is that whoever it is will come here to be a defensive-minded role player and little more. It's not about finding a guy with offensive range who can spread the floor. It's about finding a guy who won't get in the way too much and will take only good shots on the offensive end, while providing a long defensive presence that can make a difference against big, athletic players. Again, I don't know if Reggie Evans is that guy, but he'd certainly give them some much-needed rebounding help.

On a side note, Evans makes more sense if you find it hard to believe that Pop would rely on both Javtokas and Scola as rookies in the same season. I think that much rookie play would be more than Pop could handle.
I don't have a clear memory of McKey's game, but databasebasketball has him scoring 12-16 points a year through age 29, which sounds like a lot more offense than Evans brings.

I just wonder if we should look at someone like Darius Songalia -- he only rebounds about like Rasho, but he can hit jumpshots decently.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't have a clear memory of McKey's game, but databasebasketball has him scoring 12-16 points a year through age 29, which sounds like a lot more offense than Evans brings.

It was a very different NBA in that time, too. Much faster paced than what we've seen -- much more like San Antonio/Dallas and Dallas/Phoenix have been in terms of pace and scoring.

Plus, McKey was getting more than 10 shots a night to get his 12-16. Whomever the Spurs bring in isn't going to get that many shots. The key, if Pop meant what he said in using McKey as a model, is that McKey was relatively efficient on the offensive end, but gave his teams a long-bodied, defensive minded guy who would accept that role. That's what Pop is talking about, I think.

[Slinkyman]

This is from Wikipedia:

At 6'10", McKey was mostly known for his defensive skills and emphasis on teamwork play, as well as his versatility allowed him to guard small forwards and power forwards, as well as to help efficiently on centers and guards. Consequently, he was elected twice to the All-NBA Second Defensive Team. These abilities were the prime reason why coach Larry Brown wanted him in Indiana. He was also a smart, team-oriented player, shooting wisely (.486 for his career) and had a knack for passing.

[strangeweather]

Interesting. Thanks.

[FromWayDowntown]

To bring this back, though, I don't know that chasing a newer model McKey is inconsistent with chasing Reggie Evans, too. In other words, I think the Spurs could accomplish both, if they're so inclined -- unless Reggie Evans is the McKey-type that Pop has in mind.

[picnroll]

That description doesn't bring Reggie Evans to mind for me.

[Slinkyman]

I've been talking up this guy alot lately but that discription of Mckey sound alot like Jared Jeffries to me.

[FromWayDowntown]

That description doesn't bring Reggie Evans to mind for me.

Yeah, I don't know that one would ever really compare the two, which makes me think that if there's interest in Reggie Evans, it's independent of the McKey-type that Pop seeks.

That, or Pop sees something in a guy like Reggie Evans that reminds him of McKey -- I'd doubt that, though.

[strangeweather]

To bring this back, though, I don't know that chasing a newer model McKey is inconsistent with chasing Reggie Evans, too. In other words, I think the Spurs could accomplish both, if they're so inclined -- unless Reggie Evans is the McKey-type that Pop has in mind.
I wonder if there's any chance Pop's got Sanikidze pencilled in as the future Derrick McKey II?

[timvp]

Yeah, I don't know that one would ever really compare the two, which makes me think that if there's interest in Reggie Evans, it's independent of the McKey-type that Pop seeks.

That, or Pop sees something in a guy like Reggie Evans that reminds him of McKey -- I'd doubt that, though.

Yeah, if there was a McKey type player available I'd be pimping him. There isn't. There's nothing close unless you want to start talking trades. But even then, that type of player is rare in the NBA.

A trade is highly unlikely unless we are all undervaluing Rasho, Nazr, Barry, Beno, etc. on the trade market :)

[Kori Ellis]

I wonder if there's any chance Pop's got Sanikidze pencilled in as the future Derrick McKey II?

I've been wondering that too.

I don't even know if he's good.

[strangeweather]

I've been wondering that too.

I don't even know if he's good.
Well, hopefully we'll know more after summer league.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, if there was a McKey type player available I'd be pimping him. There isn't. There's nothing close unless you want to start talking trades. But even then, that type of player is rare in the NBA.

Making it all the stranger that Pop specifically referred to McKey in identifying what his team needs. Either he knows that they need it, but can't find it, or he thinks he's found it and intends to go after it.


A trade is highly unlikely unless we are all undervaluing Rasho, Nazr, Barry, Beno, etc. on the trade market :)

I agree about that. But, at the same time, like I said before, I can't see Pop going to war with two rookie bigs, even if they have Euro experience. I suspect it's either Javtokas or Scola, but not both. Since Scola would seem to have more intrinsic trade value, maybe that's what they've decided to do to fill their needs.

It's going to be an interesting July and August.

[ducks]

Free-agent power forward Reggie Evans, who lives in Florida, popped in and said he would entertain a Knick offer July 1. The Knicks attempted to trade for Evans in February but the Sonics dealt him to Denver.

"If they contacted me, my ears would be open," Evans said. "I was aware (of their interest). It's always good when a team wants you. I really appreciated it."
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/69821.htm

[SPARKY]

Oh well, time for Plan D.

[leemajors]

Oh well, time for Plan D.

you should be creaming, that may make rose available!!

[SPARKY]

What's your solution? Seriously. As much as the little herd in here wants to gloss it over, the Spurs just lost a playoff series because they couldn't get a rebound. The Spurs fucked themselves to that end with a poor trade last year. Now you want to cheer as if it's the Spurs who are playing the Heat in Game 1 of the Finals tonight. Same old fucking clueless Spurs fans.

[leemajors]

malik rose is not the answer to the problems the spurs had against the mavs, no matter what you may think.

[SPARKY]

What's your solution?

[picnroll]

Actually in all likelihood the Spurs just lost a playoff series because a player committed a dumb foul. Malik certainly could have filled that role as well.

[SPARKY]

Maybe he commits a dumb foul after snagging his 8th rebound with the team up 13 in Game 6 when the Spurs close out the series. Spurs were starting Finley at the 4 spot and you want to be glib about it? Same old Spurs fans.

[MadDog73]

Maybe he commits a dumb foul after snagging his 8th rebound with the team up 13 in Game 6 when the Spurs close out the series. Spurs were starting Finley at the 4 spot and you want to be glib about it? Same old Spurs fans.


Same old SPARKY. Bitching about shit that's over and done with.

You can't see the forest for the trees....

Tell me, smart guy, besides bitching about mistakes the Spurs can't do shit about, do you have any ideas?

[picnroll]

Maybe he posts up Diop eight times, pump fakes eight times on each post up and eats the ball eight times. To go along with his wight fumbled turnovers.

[SPARKY]

At least I can see where it went wrong and admit that the FO fucked up. Seriously, I remember when the lot here cheered when the Spurs made that trade. Then the Spurs get smoked because they have no big who can match up with Dallas. But hey man, Holt saved money. That's awesome.

[SPARKY]

Maybe he posts up Diop eight times, pump fakes eight times on each post up and eats the ball eight times. To go along with his wight fumbled turnovers.

Maybe he rebounds well, gets some scores on breaks, covers Dirk and the Spurs win. Like that hasn't happened in the postseason before...

[FromWayDowntown]

Free-agent power forward Reggie Evans, who lives in Florida, popped in and said he would entertain a Knick offer July 1. The Knicks attempted to trade for Evans in February but the Sonics dealt him to Denver.

"If they contacted me, my ears would be open," Evans said. "I was aware (of their interest). It's always good when a team wants you. I really appreciated it."
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/69821.htm

I wonder if Isiah has already formulated his plan to pick up Danny Fortson, too? Might as well get all of the one-dimensional or no-dimensional bigs that Seattle used in 2004-05, right?