Bird willing to trade unruly Pacers

[ducks]

Bird willing to trade unruly Pacers
By CLIFF BRUNT, Associated Press Writer
May 10, 2006

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Indiana Pacers president Larry Bird said the team's players will shape up or play elsewhere next season.

The Pacers entered this season with championship aspirations, but they traded an unhappy Ron Artest and dealt with numerous injuries on their way to a 41-41 record and a first-round playoff exit.

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Bird said he likes the Pacers' talent and doesn't plan to make major changes this summer. But he made it clear Wednesday he's done dealing with bad attitudes, selfishness and laziness.

"They're the ones that have to make the changes," he said. "If they can't make the changes, yes, we have to look to move them."

Bird said he expects to build around Jermaine O'Neal, despite trade rumors.

"Jermaine O'Neal is our best player on this team. Everybody on this team knows Jermaine's our guy," Bird said. "I can't sit here today and say we're going to pursue to trade Jermaine O'Neal. There's not one time that we ever called anybody and said 'Hey, are you interested in Jermaine O'Neal?'

"I don't know who out there you could trade Jermaine for and get somebody better."

The Pacers also want to re-sign sharpshooter Peja Stojakovic, who came from Sacramento in the trade for Artest. He averaged 19.5 points in 40 regular-season games but missed four of Indiana's six playoff games, all losses to New Jersey.

"When I talked to Peja, he said he really likes it here and tells me he'd like to be here," Bird said.

Those who do return will need to help the team work cohesively.

"I know that a lot of guys were frustrated," Bird said. "There's a lot of things that happened in the locker room. I don't think our chemistry is as good as it could have been."

Players were critical of the team's performance after the series-ending Game 6 loss to New Jersey.

Point guard Anthony Johnson said the culture needs to change, forward Austin Croshere said the team underachieved and O'Neal said the team needs help at center.

Bird didn't argue with Croshere's assessment and made observations similar to Johnson's on Wednesday.

As for center play, he said David Harrison is a young, raw talent who is improving, and Jeff Foster and Scot Pollard are hard workers who through injuries missed a combined 55 regular-season and four playoff games.

"That's frustration (from O'Neal)," Bird said. "I sort of felt bad when I heard that for Jeff and Scotty and David. You have those three guys healthy and playing, that's a pretty powerful unit there."

Stephen Jackson also has been considered possible trade bait, but his return could depend on his attitude. He played in all but one game and averaged 16.4 points this season, but Bird said Jackson spent too much time jawing with officials and taking poor shots.

Jackson also blamed rookie teammate Danny Granger for allowing Vince Carter to score too easily on a key play late in Game 5 against the Nets.

"It's up to Stephen to do the right thing," Bird said. "I don't like some of the things he did this year. If he's back here, which I expect him to be, there's going to be some changes. I don't like our fans booing our players, but some of the things Stephen was doing out on the court frustrated me. I was embarrassed at times."

Bird said coach Rick Carlisle deserves some of the blame for the team's lack of discipline and that Carlisle should expect more from his players.

"I think with everything that happened last year, you could probably look and say yes, he did lose the team at times," Bird said. "But they're good guys and they know what to do to win ballgames. He's a great coach, there's no question."

[ducks]

spur related because soem want stephen jackson back

[davi78239]

I wouldn't mind. He's younger than players like Barry and he brings that "fire" to the lineup.

[leemajors]

jackson won't stop taking bad shots.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I've read a lot of articles in the Indy papers about SJax last year and he basically believes he's far too good to come off the bench, he argues with refs, coaches and teammates. He's still as erratic as ever and still a turnover machine who plays average defense IMHO. I can't see him real satisfied playing behind Manu and Finley.

I hope we can do better.

[ducks]

manu is limited to 30 minutes a game

sj could even start (ego problem)
and manu could still get his 30 minutes provide a bigger spark off the bench
and play the 4

manu has been effective off the bench in regular season and postseason

not thrilled with sj but he is a long three
pacers could take barry for him

[boutons_]

We been over this dozens of times.

As "only a scorer", not only does he take bad shots, he shoots poorly from 3G and FG, just like Nick, their entire careers.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stephen_jackson/index.html

SJax shoots under a career 42% from the field, while the worst team in the NBA shoots a team FG% of .... 42%. His best shooting year was with the Spurs, yet only 43%.

He's 6'8" and fairly agile, but can't avg 4 RB/game. No hustle.

He's a SG, he's got the ball in his hands a lot, but can't avg 3 AST/game. No playmaker, no court vision, no share the ball unless he can't shoot it.

And his AST/T0 ratio is slightly above 1.0.

[nbascribe]

The problem with Jax is that he thinks he's too damn good for anybody but he doesn't realize that he's been cut for more teams thatn he has been in the league.

And I would think Bird would start cracking the whip on a lot of players who decide to have major ego problems....INCLUDING O'NEAL.

If Jax didn't want to listen to Bowen, Malik and Tim when he was here DURING THE SUMMER OF HIS NEGOTIATIONS, why do you think he'll listen now.

Let him stay where he is.

[MadDog73]

My god, do we really need another 3-point shooter? Especially one who will cost us as many games as he wins?

We need a center or backup point guard.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Fuck Jax!

[SenorSpur]

The problem with Jax is that he thinks he's too damn good for anybody but he doesn't realize that he's been cut for more teams thatn he has been in the league.

And I would think Bird would start cracking the whip on a lot of players who decide to have major ego problems....INCLUDING O'NEAL.

If Jax didn't want to listen to Bowen, Malik and Tim when he was here DURING THE SUMMER OF HIS NEGOTIATIONS, why do you think he'll listen now.

Let him stay where he is.

A big ol' dose of "humble pie" would do him good. Carlisle should bench his ass for a while.

[boutons_]

"bench his ass for a while"

.... then SJax would do wonders for team chemistry. He's an immature, dumbshit balla whose career peaked one year with the Spurs, in spite of him as much as because of him. The Spurs would be really desparate to waste their limited funs on this jerk.

[SA Gunslinger]

What about Rasho and Barry for Foster and Jackson? Jackson's contract is two years longer than Barry's contract which will save Indiana $7million, if you take into account all contracts involved. Rasho and Foster become FA's in 2009-2010.

Jackson is a much better defender than Barry and he already knows the system. Foster is from San Antonio and he's a madman on the offensive glass.

I don't know if saving $7million would be enough incentive to do the deal.

[MadDog73]

Why would Indiana take Rasho for Foster? Just to get rid of Jackson?

[SA Gunslinger]

Why would Indiana take Rasho for Foster? Just to get rid of Jackson?

I am not saying they would. But who would want to take on Jax's contract?

[Slinkyman]

spurs didn't want Sjax back in 03 why would they want him now?

[ducks]

spurs did not want him back because his agent was being a idiot
also he wanted in his contract to start
that got him out of sa

[Slinkyman]

then why didn't the offer him a contract in 04?

The offer they game him 3ys 10 mil was a lowball figure they knew Jackson wouldn't take in order to save face with fans. Now the spurs could say, "we'll we tried but he turned US down". The spurs had a ton of cap room that summer also so money really wasn't an issue, the spurs just don't want Sjax end of story.

[ploto]

Spurs did pursue Jax in 2004- opted for Barry for a shorter term and less money. They were not interested in giving Jax the MLE and all those years

[Bruno]

No to jax. We should spend our money on bigmen and not on a SG/Sf who can't play PF.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

spurs didn't want Sjax back in 03 why would they want him now?

They wanted him, just not at what his agent was asking for.

Seeings Pop has appeared to kill the Twin Towers in favor of small ball, perhaps it's time to revisit Buckets in a Spurs uni.

[Mark in Austin]

They wanted him, just not at what his agent was asking for.

Seeings Pop has appeared to kill the Twin Towers in favor of small ball, perhaps it's time to revisit Buckets in a Spurs uni.


I'm not totally discounting the idea, but I seem to recall Jax didn't have very good handles for a two. Could he flourish at the three as a defense-first player / spot-up shooter?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Buckets wouldn't be playing the two.

He'd be down at the three like he was before, backing up Bowen. I still think that Pop and RC feel deep down that they could turn him into a Bowen replacement - hard nosed D and then stroking the three ball.

I've been against the guy returning, but like I said - it appears for whatever ignorant reason Pop has decided to kill the Towers system and embrace small ball, so may as well embrace it and start looking for spare parts.

[exstatic]

Jackson, in reality, is closer to 6'10. Ask Kori.

He'd be that long 3 we're looking for.

[strangeweather]

I don't hate the idea.

Any chance they want 'Sho?

[Bruno]

Keep the Sho! :)

[strangeweather]

Keep the Sho! :)

You've made a pretty compelling case that we need to dump salary to add salary, otherwise I would suggest a Nazr sign and trade.

We might be able to replace Rasho by adding a guy like Pollard for half the midlevel.

[bendmz]

POLLARD? Now you talking, just what we need a player with some BALLS to post down low and REBOUND !!!!!!!!!
not to mention put some of them "SMALL BALL" fuckers on their ass when they drive the lane....... :lol

[Bruno]

You've made a pretty compelling case that we need to dump salary to add salary, otherwise I would suggest a Nazr sign and trade.

We might be able to replace Rasho by adding a guy like Pollard for half the midlevel.

It was a wink for angel_luv.

I agree with you (and me:) ), we had to trade Rasho for financial reason (Rasho has a poor ratio production/salary) but I can understand people who want to keep him : he is a nice guy and is usefull in some matchups.

I'm a big fan of Pollard as 4th or 5th bigmen, even if I take Javtokas over him. The problem is that we will have still our 5 bigs : Duncan/starting PF/Horry/Javtokas/Oberto. If we trade Oberto, Pollard can be great solution.

[gospursgojas]

SJax > JR Smith

We needed someone like Sjax at some points during the season, and during the Dallas series to bring some fire to the team...

[SA Gunslinger]

I would rather overpay Jax than overpay Rasho. And Jax wouldn't need anytime to get acclimated. It would be great, for a change, to be able to have a group of guys that are used to playing with each other to begin the season.

[clubalien]

joneal would be nice

[ploto]

I would rather overpay Jax than overpay Rasho. And Jax wouldn't need anytime to get acclimated. It would be great, for a change, to be able to have a group of guys that are used to playing with each other to begin the season.
You realize that on opening night of the three previous seasons the Spurs have had the exact same starting line-up:
Tony
Manu
Bruce
Tim
Rasho

You are one of the people proposing a change to that. :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

joneal would be nice

Maybe we can get Wade too. :lol

[ducks]

atleast oneal there is a actually possiblity he is on the block

wade has no chance




oneal makes 18 million next year

kg for oneal make the most since

[SPARKY]

It was Jack who brought the Spurs back on the road in the '03 WCF. It was Jack who was knocking down championship winning treys in the '03 Finals. Spurs fans seem to forget what he did in SA. A Jack return might just help him and the Spurs get back to where they used to be.

[ducks]

I thought it was spurs need one player with a headband

[strangeweather]

I'm a big fan of Pollard as 4th or 5th bigmen, even if I take Javtokas over him. The problem is that we will have still our 5 bigs : Duncan/starting PF/Horry/Javtokas/Oberto. If we trade Oberto, Pollard can be great solution.

Yeah, 6 guys is too many unless one of them is someone like Kiwi for the minimum -- Oberto isn't all that expensive, but probably too pricey to leave inactive.

Hmm.

[Slinkyman]

Sjax isn't a SF and he's a horrible defender, he makes Finley look like Bruce. Sjax doesn't solve our need for a long 3 he'd be just another SG backing up manu and right now Finley>Sjax

[strangeweather]

Sjax isn't a SF and he's a horrible defender, he makes Finley look like Bruce. Sjax doesn't solve our need for a long 3 he'd be just another SG backing up manu and right now Finley>Sjax

What makes you say that?

He was a sound defender when he was here, and while he's not tall for an SF, he's not small for one either.

[exstatic]

Stephen Jackson is at least 6'9". When he was here, I remember Kori mentioning that there was a large difference in the heights between Jack, listed at 6'8" and Bowen listed at 6'7". She noticed when she was doing interviews. I started watching players on the floor during stoppages in play, and Jack isn't that much shorter than Duncan, who is probably between 6'10" and 6'11".

[Bruno]

You realize that on opening night of the three previous seasons the Spurs have had the exact same starting line-up

In fact, it's not true : Parker was injured for the start of 03-04 season.

[Doc Jerome]

SJax was a solid defender while a Spur. It was the combination of he and Bruce that did a number on Kobe and the Lakers. Oh, Manu helped too. The three of them made it tough for teams with quick 2's and 3's. Some of you have amnesia, but SJax helped this team tremendously.

Often, it was his shooting the timely 3 that gave the Spurs the edge. Not to mention that swagger that many of U associated with acquiring Ron Artest.

Stay tuned, . . . :fro

[Doc Jerome]

Bring SJax home, and find a way to get J. R. Smith. Everyone else under 6'9" is a joke and would be woefully inadequate.

[Bruno]

Jackson can be 6'8" or 6'10" or even 8'2", it's not the problem.

Will you play Jackson at PF ?

No for me, he isn't a good rebounder and with Jackson at PF we will be killed on the board. Jackson will have difficulties to defend the opposite PF.

Now, there are 96 minutes available at SG/SF and you have to split them between Manu/Finley/Bowen/Jackson : good luck to keep everyone happy about his playtime.

Jackson will be expensive too and we will have less money to spend for bigmen. The max we should spend for our long 3 is $3M/year if he can't play some PF.

[strangeweather]

Not to mention that swagger that many of U associated with acquiring Ron Artest.

We don't have many ferocious players on this team. Really, Manu is about it most of the time, and even he disappears sometimes. Jack is fierce, and he's fearless. That alone would be a big win for the Spurs.

[strangeweather]

Jackson can be 6'8" or 6'10" or even 8'2", it's not the problem.

Will you play Jackson at PF ?

No for me, he isn't a good rebounder and with Jackson at PF we will be killed on the board. Jackson will have difficulties to defend the opposite PF.

Now, there are 96 minutes available at SG/SF and you have to split them between Manu/Finley/Bowen/Jackson : good luck to keep everyone happy about his playtime.

Jackson will be expensive too and we will have less money to spend for bigmen. The max we should spend for our long 3 is $3M/year if he can't play some PF.

What about Rasho+Oberto for Jack, let Nazr leave, dump Barry for a trade exception and a cheap kid, sign Scola for $4M or so, Javtokas for the LLE, and fill in the bottom of the roster with kids or guys for the minimum?

The Barry trade might not be the easiest thing to accomplish, but if it could be done, it would put the salaries in the right ballpark.

Edit: Reggie Evans might also work instead of Scola if we want better rebounding instead of inside offense.

[Bruno]

What about Rasho+Oberto for Jack, let Nazr leave, dump Barry for a trade exception and a cheap kid, sign Scola for $4M or so, Javtokas for the LLE, and fill in the bottom of the roster with kids or guys for the minimum?

The Barry trade might not be the easiest thing to accomplish, but if it could be done, it would put the salaries in the right ballpark.

Edit: Reggie Evans might also work instead of Scola if we want better rebounding instead of inside offense.

You can do scenarios where Spurs get Jackson without paying the luxury tax but it changes nothing to the problem.

None of Bowen/Manu/Finley/Jackson can play PF. You don't have enough playtime for them. Just fo the playtime breakdown and you will realize it.

Our long SF will be the 4th swingman, he won't get a lot of playtime unless he can play some PF too. Jackson is too talented and too expensive to be a 4th swingman.

[exstatic]

Bruce will be 35 at the start of the season next year, and Manu is burning himself up for Argentina again this summer. Jack will play, and yes, he can scavenge some minutes at the 4 against the Phoenixes, the Dallases, and the Sactos. They'd better get used to playing Small Ball. Teams are going to use it against them now. Jack doesn't get a ton of rebounds, but that's usually because he's hanging about the perimeter. If he were told "You are a combo forward and we want some more rebounding", I'd bet he could do it. He has averaged close to 5 lurking on the perimeter.

IIRC, next is Bowen's last season under contract. If they want to break in a replacement, they need to do it tommorrow. Jack would probably be inclined to tolerate a reduced role if he knew the SF spot was his in '07.

[Bruno]

Bruce will be 35 at the start of the season next year, and Manu is burning himself up for Argentina again this summer.

Bowen has made one of his best season and will be motivated to play at the top level with the olympics games.
Manu best season was when he played with argentina the summer. The mondial in Japan is soon enough this year to allow some rest for players before the start of the season.
There are maybe 12-16min available at SG/SF for a long SF, nothing more.



Jack will play, and yes, he can scavenge some minutes at the 4 against the Phoenixes, the Dallases, and the Sactos. They'd better get used to playing Small Ball.
Jackson can't defend against 80% of the PFs. He is a SG/SF and not a SF/PF. He won't get any playtime.



Teams are going to use it against them now.

Dallas isn't a small ball team. Small ball isn't widly used and small ball with a lineup with only one good rebounder sucks.



Jack doesn't get a ton of rebounds, but that's usually because he's hanging about the perimeter. If he were told "You are a combo forward and we want some more rebounding", I'd bet he could do it. He has averaged close to 5 lurking on the perimeter.
Jackson isn't a good rebounder. He averages 5rbd in 36 min when he played SF, nothing great. Even Manu is a better rebounder than Jackson.
And good luck to turn Jackson into a combo forward.



IIRC, next is Bowen's last season under contract. If they want to break in a replacement, they need to do it tommorrow. Jack would probably be inclined to tolerate a reduced role if he knew the SF spot was his in '07.
Bowen has still 2 season on his contract. The second season isn't guaranteed but with his great work ethic and the olympics I think he will be able to play something like 24min/game in 07-08.
Jackson is well known for being higly coachable. I'm quite sure a player who is such a team first player will greatly apreciate to be on the bench during one or two years in his prime.
Trading for Jackson is a bad idea like keeping Devin last summer was.

[exstatic]

Whatever. We'll have to agree to disagree on Jack. Dallas isn't smallball? Did you not watch the series? They sure as hell are against US, and we'd better be prepared for it again. Sacto also went smallball, and had we advanced one more round, Phoenix probably would have, too.

[Bruno]

Whatever. We'll have to agree to disagree on Jack. Dallas isn't smallball? Did you not watch the series? They sure as hell are against US, and we'd better be prepared for it again. Sacto also went smallball, and had we advanced one more round, Phoenix probably would have, too.

They played with two seven footer. Spurs have played small ball, not Dallas.
Howard at SF, Dirk at PF and Diop/Dampier at C isn't small ball at all.
The only small ball thing they have done is playing Terry at SG and it was mainly to avoid Duncan to be able to defend on a perimeter player.

Just look at the 14 western conference teams, jackson can defend on 2 or 3 PF and we will still be in rebounding trouble.

[exstatic]

SA played small because in spite of his height, Dirk plays small most of the time with his shooting and penetration, and none of our bigs could stay in front of him. You need another TALL perimeter-oriented player to stick on him.

I'm not proposing that Jack be plugged into the starting 4 spot and play 35 minutes there. I said he could SCAVENGE some time there to up his minutes. RIF.

[Bruno]

SA played small because in spite of his height, Dirk plays small most of the time with his shooting and penetration, and none of our bigs could stay in front of him. You need another TALL perimeter-oriented player to stick on him.

I'm not proposing that Jack be plugged into the starting 4 spot and play 35 minutes there. I said he could SCAVENGE some time there to up his minutes. RIF.

Jackson wouldn't have benn better against Dirk than Bruce. If you put a player like Jackson on Dirk, you are killed on the board. You can't play with only one good rebounder in your lineup, have you look the serie agaisnt Dallas ?

A lineup with Parker/Manu/Bowen/Jackson/Duncan is an horrible lineup and even against Phoenix. Understanding BB is fundamental.

[boutons_]

"he could SCAVENGE some time"

SJax would be pissed if he weren't starting and forced to scavenge minutes from the bench. Who wants to deal with pissed off balla who as a selfish scorer-only doesn't shoot well, won't hustle RBs with his 6'10" height, doesn't more ASTs than TOs, and is in general pretty stupid about how to play basketball?

SJax is too fucking lazy and stupid to play stopper defense on a Nowitski or a Diaw.

[Mark in Austin]

The thing is, we have a streaky shooter who hit clutch shots in the playoffs for us: Finley. And he brings more to the table in terms of consistency, professionalism, keeping his cool, etc. This post season, on a per-minute basis, Finley and Buckets scored and rebounded evenly. Jack averaged twice as many assists, and three times as many turnovers though, shooting 36.6% overall and 23.1% on 3's. Finley shot 47.6% overall and 38.3% from three-point range.

Yes, we wouldn't have won the 2003 title w/o buckets. But everybody forgets that in the Dallas game that he and Kerr mounted that great comeback, it was his shitty shooting and poor decisions in the first half that helped Dallas get that big lead to begin with.

The Diggler matchup wasn't the problem this year. It was the two fast as fuck 6'2" 1.5 gaurds playing in Dallas' backcourt that caused the biggest matchup problems. Two of the three games SA won in the series were games where the Terry-Harris tandem wasn't AJ's strategy (Games 1 and 6). If the Spurs want to address a weakness exposed by Dallas, they need Speed in the backcourt.

Actually, they need Speedy in the backcourt. Speedy Claxton would have been perfect to run with Parker and defend Dallas. Less help defense on Terry/Harris means defenders can stay home on their men more of the time.

Back to Buckets for a minute, though. The biggest obstacle to bringing him back is money. He makes $6.1 Million next season. If the Pacers are interested in Barry, Rasho, or a sign and trade for Nazr, it might be possible. But the S&T option would also require a salrary dump move of one of Rasho/Barry/Horry to give the Spurs enough flexibility to make other moves under the luxury tax. While it looks like Indy IS looking to upgrade the center position, I have to wonder if they would consider Rasho or Nazr as a worthwhile upgrade.

[T Park]

I can't believe you morons wouldn't bring him back.

[polandprzem]

Get Granger

[ploto]

Hedo could cover Dirk better than Jax. (Ducks for cover.)

[exstatic]

Get Granger
Granger is not available.