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View Full Version : Buck Harvey: Discarded last year, Rose at last was missed



Kori Ellis
05-28-2006, 04:52 AM
Buck Harvey: Discarded last year, Rose at last was missed

Web Posted: 05/28/2006 12:21 AM CDT
San Antonio Express-News


http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA052806.1C.COL.BKNharvey.spurs.816ed85.html

Nazr Mohammed and Malik Rose were part of another deal this month. This time, cards were involved.

Both attended Tony Parker's birthday/poker party.

The two exchanged hands, as well as places. Just as the Spurs needed Mohammed a year ago, this year the Spurs needed Rose.

The outcomes?

As different as winning and folding.

The Spurs don't bring this up, nor do they regret the 2005 trade that sent Rose to New York for Mohammed. Mohammed was vital against big lineups in the title run, and no one would exchange a ring for conjecture.

Besides, the same factor that was in play then would be in play now. Money. The Knicks owe Rose about $7 million in each of the next two years.

That's a lot to pay a bench player in a small market, and that's a lot to gamble with, too. But friendship, not money, is why Rose was one of about 50 invited to Parker's birthday party.

This tells, again, that Rose's relationship with the Spurs wasn't superficial. So imagine how Rose felt last June when his former teammates took the championship. They had gone on nicely without him, hadn't they?

But there are no rules about former Spurs hanging with current ones. And, for this party, Eva Longoria hired the perfect master of ceremonies: Phil Hellmuth, a nine-time World Series of Poker champion.

Hellmuth now earns money at poker without having to play. He has cashed in on the industry's popularity, having written several books and created a poker fantasy camp.

Making appearances is part of it. Just as Hellmuth showed for Alex Rodriguez and Tom Brady, he showed at Parker's party, and Hellmuth described the event in his regular column.

"Everyone in the room was playing!" Hellmuth wrote. "The Spurs are so into poker that they keep records for the entire year (Michael Finley, another great player, won their last tournament)."

Hellmuth wrote that he beat Parker out of a large pot. "Then I carried around the microphone, praising and teasing Parker, Longoria, Tim Duncan, Finley, Malik Rose and Nazr Mohammed."

The teasing could have turned from poker to basketball, except few Spurs likely wanted to laugh about that. Mohammed, especially, had reason to be sensitive. In a contract year, no less, he played only 14 more minutes against the Mavericks than Rose did.

It's not illogical to argue Mohammed should have played more. The Spurs lost, after all.

But two of Gregg Popovich's points are real. One, neither Mohammed nor Rasho Nesterovic could have defended Dirk Nowitzki. That would have left Tim Duncan on him or on a smaller, quicker Maverick.

And, two, not having Mohammed and Nesterovic opened up the other end for Duncan. That created merely the best offensive series of his career.

But what if Rose had remained a Spur? Clues come from when he was one.

Rose was often Popovich's counter when the opposition went small. "He can guard everybody from the 1 to the 4," Popovich once said.

Rose also leaned on the most famous 5, Shaquille O'Neal. But it was his success against small lineups that made him so valuable.

Asked why Rose was so good against little lineups, Duncan had the obvious answer. "Because he's little," Duncan once said.

Then Duncan quickly added: "And because he can jump out on (Dirk) Nowitzki one time, then switch to (Steve) Nash the next."

Ah, Nowitzki.

Granted, Nowitzki is better than he was in 2003, the last time the Spurs met the Mavericks in the playoffs. Still, with Bruce Bowen more occupied on Finley, Rose usually checked in and headed for Nowitzki.

Rose did more than jump out on him. In Game 2 of the Western Conference finals, with Nowitzki on the floor in the first half with two fouls, Rose drove on him — drawing Nowitzki's third. Rose finished with 25 points in 27 minutes.

And in the closeout Game 6? David Robinson played only 16 minutes compared to Rose's 32, and Rose ended with 12 points and 11 rebounds.

The Spurs needed the same this month. They needed someone who could counter the quick Dallas scorers and also rebound with them. They needed someone with a serviceable jumper to make sure defenders didn't leave to double Duncan. And they needed, at worst, someone to relieve an overworked rotation.

Almost 15 months after they traded him, the Spurs needed Rose.

ChumpDumper
05-28-2006, 04:57 AM
Shoulda signed Chuck Hayes when I told them to....

Nbadan
05-28-2006, 05:15 AM
Rose finished with 25 points in 27 minutes.

That's the key to beating Dallas. Dirk isn't a good defender, so if his opponent can score, it nullifies some of Dirk's affect on the game. The Spurs rarely made Dirk pay on D.

timvp
05-28-2006, 05:16 AM
Buck steals timvp's content again?
(http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41334)

The thing I don't get is why everyone thinks the Spurs couldn't have won it last year without Nazr. Nazr played decent but it was Horry in his place that was winning games. As the playoff went on, his hands got worse and worse and so did his defense.

Nazr didn't do anything Rasho or any other average center couldn't have done.

ChumpDumper
05-28-2006, 05:21 AM
Malik was overpaid.

I'd want to keep Rasho and Barry too if they didn't cost so much.

timvp
05-28-2006, 05:24 AM
Rasho is overpaid too and the Spurs didn't give him away.

ChumpDumper
05-28-2006, 05:28 AM
"couldn't give him away" you meant....

timvp
05-28-2006, 05:31 AM
The Knicks wanted Rasho but the Spurs insisted on Malik.

timvp
05-28-2006, 05:31 AM
Shoulda signed Chuck Hayes when I told them to....

Yeah, you called that. Props.

Now I want the Spurs to steal him from the Rockets. He's the type of player the Spurs need.

ChumpDumper
05-28-2006, 05:34 AM
Yeah, you called that. Props.

Now I want the Spurs to steal him from the Rockets. He's the type of player the Spurs need.All part of my master plan in the other thread. Houston has to spend heavily to replentish their guard core, so it could be possible.

Nbadan
05-28-2006, 05:34 AM
"couldn't give him away" you meant....

:lol

POP's never liked under-sized PF or athletic SF's who don't play D first. POP loves players who help spread the floor.

ChumpDumper
05-28-2006, 05:37 AM
The Knicks wanted Rasho but the Spurs insisted on Malik.Wait, wasn't the deal Nazr/Thomas for Rose/Rasho?

I'm on record as being in favor of that after deliberation, IIRC.

TDMVPDPOY
05-28-2006, 07:28 AM
seriously who cares :D

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-28-2006, 10:28 AM
Dumb article from Buck.

A bench scrub that played his best basketball over three years ago and can't even get off the bench on a piss poor New York Knicks team was the missing piece against the Mavs?

:lmao

Sway
05-28-2006, 12:07 PM
A bench scrub that played his best basketball over three years ago and can't even get off the bench on a piss poor New York Knicks team was the missing piece against the Mavs?


Agreed, we dont need Malik, his best basketball is way behind him. But, we do need a player like the Malik of 5 years ago.

J.T.
05-28-2006, 12:14 PM
Yawn, there are so many "what-ifs" that could've won that series for the Spurs. What if Duncan doesn't foul out of Game 3? What if Manu doesn't foul out of Game 4? What if Duncan makes the shot at the buzzer of Game 4? What if we don't fold both time the game goes to OT? What if Ginobili didn't foul Dirk in Game 7? What if Spurs Basketball didn't end when the last regular season game ended?

Point is we lost. Get over it buck. Look forward to 06-07 with the rest of us.

v2freak
05-28-2006, 12:17 PM
Is no one willing to admit he has a point? Malik would have helped in the series. Malik helps in small ball situations, Spurs played small ball against the Mavs, therefore Malik would have helped the Spurs against the Mavs.

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-28-2006, 12:23 PM
What if Spurs Basketball didn't end when the last regular season game ended?

That's the question that should be asked, but no writer in SA has the balls to ask.


Is no one willing to admit he has a point? Malik would have helped in the series.

Pop damnit. If Dirk was confident shooting over 6'7" Bowen, and 6'5" Finley, you think the guy would have had problems with 6'4" pissant Malik Rose?

If we could have had the Rose of 2000-2002, maybe, but after Malik signed his fat contract he was never the same player. Too many people get caught up in nostalgia when they talk about Malik Rose.

He was great in his time, but these days he's a lot like Van Exel - useless. I suppose the same people who think Malik would have made a difference also think that if we could have gotten Avery to somehow suit up and play backup point that woulda worked out well too.

EVAY
05-28-2006, 02:07 PM
Buck Harvey was totallly out to lunch on this article. It is ridiculaous to think that we would have beat Dallas with Malik. Had Malik been on the team all season, we would never have had a 63 game season. Has everyone forgotten how he threw the ball away every other time he got his hands on it during hte past two seasons he was here? C'mon. Harvey is rarely right about regarding basketball, an this article is no exception. I haven't found the question to which Malik Rose is the answer.

MannyIsGod
05-28-2006, 02:13 PM
AHF, does Dirk get a game winning rebound over Rose?

koopa
05-28-2006, 02:46 PM
Dumb article from Buck.

A bench scrub that played his best basketball over three years ago and can't even get off the bench on a piss poor New York Knicks team was the missing piece against the Mavs?

:lmao

he started 35 times even though most of it was down the stretch of the season

timvp
05-28-2006, 03:18 PM
Dumb article from Buck.

A bench scrub that played his best basketball over three years ago and can't even get off the bench on a piss poor New York Knicks team was the missing piece against the Mavs?

:lmao

Don't be mad because Baby Hakeem didn't exactly turn out like you hyped up.

:lol

picnroll
05-28-2006, 03:22 PM
If the Spurs still had Malik on the books and not Nazr coming off the books would they be willing to use the MLE this year to retool the roster a bit?

SequSpur
05-28-2006, 05:02 PM
Malik Rose sucks.

whottt
05-28-2006, 05:02 PM
Malik Rose was re-inserted into the Knicks starting lineup around the All Star Break and promptly pulled down 3 consecutive double doubles for the Knicks.

Wake me the next time one of our Centers has 3 consecutive double doubles....

Wake me the next time one of them shows they can play in the post season anywhere near as well as Malik has...

Wake me the next time either of them shows the ability to get to the FT line half as well as Malik could...even in his last year here.

Malik fit in well on this team, he was a better fit than either of our Centers.

He played D and shot better than Nazr, and he was more agressive offensively than Rasho...and is as good a rebounder as either of them...plus he is faster and capable of guarding more types of players. About the only thing he can't do that they can is block shots...but he more than makes up for that with hustle.

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-28-2006, 05:14 PM
AHF, does Dirk get a game winning rebound over Rose?

1. Whose to say he would have even been in?

2. Most people seem to have forgotten the lasting image of Rose his last year in SA consisted largely of the likes of Dirk easily grabbing rebounds right over the head of Rose.



LJ,

I don't harbor any hate towards Malik because Nazr apparently isn't going to work out. The moment Rose signed that monster contract he became a shell of his former self - he got outhustled by other teams' hustle players and outrebounded by other teams' rebounders.

And when he wasn't losing the rebounds or getting beat on hustle plays, he was pulling his jersey over his head letting his man run down court for an easy hoop.

No thanks.

v2freak
05-28-2006, 05:16 PM
The pulling the jersey thing happened once, as far as memory serves

Why categorize a player based on 1 play?

T Park
05-28-2006, 05:20 PM
The moment Rose signed that monster contract he became a shell of his former self

Didn't he sign that contract before 02 03?

If so, then your theory is wrong.


As usual.

T Park
05-28-2006, 05:20 PM
The pulling the jersey thing happened once, as far as memory serves

Why categorize a player based on 1 play?

It was more than that.

God.....

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-28-2006, 06:27 PM
Didn't he sign that contract before 02 03?

If so, then your theory is wrong.


As usual.


Whatever Tpark. I'm still waiting for you to talk x's and o's as far as the Dallas series goes, instead of your typical 'you're wrong', 'stupid Aggie', 'you don't know shit about bball' shit that you regurgitate ad nauseum.

From the moment he signed that deal, his game started regressing to where he is today.

T Park
05-28-2006, 06:55 PM
Whatever Tpark. I'm still waiting for you to talk x's and o's as far as the Dallas series goes, instead of your typical 'you're wrong', 'stupid Aggie', 'you don't know shit about bball' shit that you regurgitate ad nauseum.



Whats this got to do with Malik Rose?


Paranoid much?

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-28-2006, 07:24 PM
Paranoid? No.

Waiting for the day you'll actually get off your ass and talk about something going on out on the court instead of throwing around petty insults and condescending remarks? Definitely.

MannyIsGod
05-28-2006, 09:53 PM
Paranoid? No.

Waiting for the day you'll actually get off your ass and talk about something going on out on the court instead of throwing around petty insults and condescending remarks? Definitely.Good post.

spurster
05-28-2006, 10:25 PM
The Malik Rose of 3 or 4 years ago would have made a difference, but the year he was traded he seemed to have lost a little of his jump and quickness.

DuncanInYourFace
05-31-2006, 10:02 PM
If Dirk was confident shooting over 6'7" Bowen, and 6'5" Finley, you think the guy would have had problems with 6'4" pissant Malik Rose?




I thought Malik was 6' 7''

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-31-2006, 10:44 PM
I thought Malik was 6' 7''

On the roster, but not in real life.

T Park
05-31-2006, 11:01 PM
Good post.



coming from the king of petty insults this is quite hilarious.

timvp
06-01-2006, 12:14 AM
On the roster, but not in real life.

Yeah, Malik is really 6'4 :rolleyes

So what happened to your boy Baby Hakeem? Still claiming his 10 and 10 future?

:lol

SPARKY
06-01-2006, 07:16 AM
Rose was a major reason why the Spurs never had a problem defending and rebounding against Dallas lineups with Nowitzki prior to this season. Malik's gone, Stone Hands can't play, and the Spurs lose.

Maybe the Knicks will take Stone Hands back.

CharlieMac
06-01-2006, 09:03 AM
Wait a second, the article was talking about Malik Rose, right?