Chicago tribune/Scola speculation

[V-2]

An interesting possibility for the Bulls could be Argentina's 6-foot-9-inch Luis Scola, who plays overseas and is a Spurs' draft pick. He's another tough guy in the Nocioni mold and a post player, which doesn't fit with Duncan. Perhaps the Spurs are interested in the Bulls' No. 16 overall pick.

http://chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com) :lol

[stewart]

:rolleyes that would be stupid

[exstatic]

Actually, we'd be interested in one of: Deng, Nocioni. If Scola's post game is a redundnacy in SA, having two young SFs in Chicago is as well.

This is graded as an EXTREMELY weak draft by all accounts. The 16 pick may not make it out of his rookie contract.

[picnroll]

Waiting on what to do with Scola until after the World Championships may be the smart thing. If he has a great tournament it may increase his value either in staying with the Spurs or in trade. Scola is a good back to the basket low post player, at least by European standards where he's great. But he also looks to have a solid mid-range shot, certainly better than Nazr or Rasho, probably even better than Horry. He looks like a very good pick and roll and pick and pop player which would work with Duncan. Defense? Rebounding? That's another matter.


Looks like what will happen with Javtokas will not be known until after the WCs.

link (http://bc.lrytas.lt/lt/disp.php/lt_index/news_194)
link (http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?t=364)

He's asked whether there was a proposal from the Spurs. No direct answer to that, saying that "there are very attractive proposals in Europe ... but yes, playing in the NBA is one of my old dreams, and this year it is quite realistic ... also, Lietuvos Rytas proposes me a contract as well" ...

Finally, he says that he doesn't plan to have a contract prior to World Championship in Japan - all things most probably will be resolved thereafter.

[gus]

He would be good If the Spurs continue with the small ball. You keep Duncan as Center and Scola as PF. The issue is that it would be nicer a PF with longer range, so you have a inside-outside post players.

Gus

[picnroll]

gus how limited is Scola's effective range? Is his range limited to the degree it is becuase of form/ability or is it just that he's his teams', Tau and Argentina, best/near only low post option. Can he extend his range?

[exstatic]

He would be good If the Spurs continue with the small ball. You keep Duncan as Center and Scola as PF. The issue is that it would be nicer a PF with longer range, so you have a inside-outside post players.

Gus
That still presents defensive shortcomings against Dirk, and doesn't really improve our rebounding deficit.

[Gino2882]

Nocioni or Deng would be great. Imagine Nocioni and Gino together.

[picnroll]

That still presents defensive shortcomings against Dirk, and doesn't really improve our rebounding deficit.
We weren't having a lot of effectiveness against Dirk with anyone. Question is can he hurt Dirk on the offensive end a bit. Maybe even stick a couple of fouls on him. DIrk probably can't post Scola up. He probably can shoot over him but no more so than Finley. He can go around him and get to the basket. I think Scola could do a better job o boxing Dirk out and rebounding than Finley or Bowen.

[strangeweather]

Actually, we'd be interested in one of: Deng, Nocioni. If Scola's post game is a redundnacy in SA, having two young SFs in Chicago is as well.

This is graded as an EXTREMELY weak draft by all accounts. The 16 pick may not make it out of his rookie contract.

Figure Nocioni to be virtually impossible to pry loose, and even Deng probably requires more than we are willing to part with.

If there's somebody the front office wants with #16, and we wouldn't be able to bring Scola in anyway because we're going to use our midlevel for something else, we could do worse.

Another possiblity might be something like Scola + Oberto for #16 + Duhon.

[Gin N Juice]

Figure Nocioni to be virtually impossible to pry loose, and even Deng probably requires more than we are willing to part with.

If there's somebody the front office wants with #16, and we wouldn't be able to bring Scola in anyway because we're going to use our midlevel for something else, we could do worse.

Another possiblity might be something like Scola + Oberto for #16 + Duhon.

who would you take at 16 then?

[strangeweather]

who would you take at 16 then?

Quite possibly no one that would help us this year. But I think that stocking our farm system is also worthwhile.

Saer Sene would be a possibility, as would Marcus Vinicius. With Vinicius, we could probably trade down from #16 and pick up another second rounder.

Tiago Splitter might be available at #16, but I don't know when he could actually be bought out and brought over.

If we got someone to play this year, It would be nice to have Shelden Williams's rebounding and blocking. Alternatively, Shawne Williams is an undermotivated and raw long 3 with Tremendous Upside Potential(TM) -- I don't love undermotivated guys, but at least we'd be addressing a need.

[vanvannen]

Figure Nocioni to be virtually impossible to pry loose, and even Deng probably requires more than we are willing to part with.

If there's somebody the front office wants with #16, and we wouldn't be able to bring Scola in anyway because we're going to use our midlevel for something else, we could do worse.

Another possiblity might be something like Scola + Oberto for #16 + Duhon.

What use would the Spurs give to Duhon?

[gus]

gus how limited is Scola's effective range? Is his range limited to the degree it is becuase of form/ability or is it just that he's his teams', Tau and Argentina, best/near only low post option. Can he extend his range?

I just don't know. In the last Olympics he showed an improvement in mid range jumpers, however I wouldn't say that he is a consistant shooter. I think that he has very good post moves. This year I didn't see him often to say that how is he shooting the mid-long range jumpers. Anyway it is true what you say, that he play mainly in the Post in Tau.

Gus

[Gummi]

I think picnroll said it best, Scola would box Dirk out much better then both Finley and Bowen could. Dirk had way too many offensive rebounds in the series and some of them were huge down the stretch.

IMO the Spurs should try everything to get Scola over for next season. If Scola does arrive, I think Pop should really consider a starting front court of Duncan and Scola along with Bowen.

What I've seen of Scola he's quite mobile and quick for his position. I think he could for instance guard guys like Dirk pretty well. Combine his height and strength along with his decent quickness he should be quite able to guard Dirk, at least not any worse then Bowen and Finley did.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Awesome, our hopes of getting back to the top rely on a guy who has never played NBA ball.

Duncan couldn't even touch Dirk without getting a foul call in the WC semis, and you guys think an undersized rookie PF from Argentina/Europe is going to waltz in and be our Dirk stopper?

[V-2]

Why the obsession with Dirk stoppers?
Spurs didn't let Dirk have his 40 as Pop was preaching, if that was our intention, then JT, Stack, VanHorn, and Howard wouldn't have hurt us as much. Dirk cannot be stopped, all the Spurs need is a forward who can mix it up in the offensive end, an athletic PG, and a tall SF.
Hopefully the newcomers will be able to hit FTs, when you lose by 1 or 2 points, it's only a matter of details.

[Extra Stout]

Why the obsession with Dirk stoppers?
Spurs didn't let Dirk have his 40 as Pop was preaching, if that was our intention, then JT, Stack, VanHorn, and Howard wouldn't have hurt us as much. Dirk cannot be stopped, all the Spurs need is a forward who can mix it up in the offensive end, an athletic PG, and a tall SF.
Hopefully the newcomers will be able to hit FTs, when you lose by 1 or 2 points, it's only a matter of details.
Because the Spurs need to be able to put Bowen on Jason Terry, Josh Howard, or Jerry Stackhouse. It's not so much that they need to stop Dirk as that they need to remedy the matchup problems that render their defense impotent.

[picnroll]

No way do I think Scola could be a Dirk stopper. I would like to see somone who might be able to take advantage of Dirk's piss poor post defense on the other end though.

What options do the Spurs have. You think Javtokas is ging to be more successful at guarding Dirk? More than Duncan? And what is he going to do for you at the offensive end against Dirk? I'd trade Scola in a heartbeat for Varejao but that ship passed.

[V-2]

If Horry could keep it decent on the offensive end, Spurs would be cruising right now to the finals. Having 2 offensive liabilities (SF and C) plus the thin bench, Barry and VanExel hurt us against the Mavs. Spurs need to get more athletic, finding Dirk stoppers is a pipe dream.

[El_Mago]

If the Spurs get the 16th pick, you take 7-0 Nemanja Alexsandrov SF.

[picnroll]

this draft is about as weak as spurstalk posters' posts
6,378 of them and counting

[exstatic]

6,378 of them and counting
:lol:rollin :elephant

[Spurologist]

6,378 of them and counting

:lmao

[Bruno]

An interesting possibility for the Bulls could be Argentina's 6-foot-9-inch Luis Scola, who plays overseas and is a Spurs' draft pick. He's another tough guy in the Nocioni mold and a post player, which doesn't fit with Duncan. Perhaps the Spurs are interested in the Bulls' No. 16 overall pick.

http://chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com) :lol

This article is written by Sam Smith, this guy is as credible as Hoopsworld.

[strangeweather]

What use would the Spurs give to Duhon?

He's a much better backup point guard than we have now.

[WalterBenitez]

Nocioni or Deng would be great. Imagine Nocioni and Gino together.

hmmmm, imagine Nocioni and Bowen together :eyebrows

[WalterBenitez]

I think picnroll said it best, Scola would box Dirk out much better then both Finley and Bowen could. Dirk had way too many offensive rebounds in the series and some of them were huge down the stretch.

IMO the Spurs should try everything to get Scola over for next season. If Scola does arrive, I think Pop should really consider a starting front court of Duncan and Scola along with Bowen.

What I've seen of Scola he's quite mobile and quick for his position. I think he could for instance guard guys like Dirk pretty well. Combine his height and strength along with his decent quickness he should be quite able to guard Dirk, at least not any worse then Bowen and Finley did.

Scola would bit Dirk is the coach ask for it

[Jimcs50]

hmmmm, imagine Nocioni and Bowen together :eyebrows


No thanks, I will not even go see Brokeback Mountain.

[SsKSpurs21]

no way the bulls let go of nocioni, he won the bulls "player of the year" according to bulls.com. he is their future along with hinrich. but i would LOVE to have luel deng. especially if he learns to play defense from bruce bowen he can be a MONSTER. his offensive game is not too shabby as well.

depending on how scola does if we bring him over for the summer leagues id highly consider sending him to chicago for deng.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Deng's probably the one that's available, but people need to realize that Chicago's not going to give him up for our table scraps.

[SsKSpurs21]

aggie fan your probably right but the bulls are really high on scola. and nocioni is his buddy so maybe he might push paxson to pull the trigger. so now we basically have to evaluate is deng>scola?

[nbascribe]

This alleged trade doesn't make financial sense. looking at how long Deng is signed, there's no way the Spurs will do a sign and trade deal for Scola; or any trade for that matter unless they get financial compensation and Deng in one bag.

[picnroll]

I remember there were questions about Nocioni being athletic enough to play in the NBA. We can only hope Scola has as much of problem adapting to the NBA as Chapo did. And if Scola did play as well as Nocioni did and the Spurs had traded him the line of P&Mers and "I told you soers" would reach form here back to page 2000.

[ChumpDumper]

The most we can hope from Chicago is a guard and a trade exception. They're saving the others for big moves like KG or some such rot.

#16 for Scola? They do need to replace Songaila.

[objective]

Scola for #16 seems like a big waste

[SenorSpur]

Nocioni or Deng would be great.

Excellent suggestion!

[exstatic]

This alleged trade doesn't make financial sense. looking at how long Deng is signed, there's no way the Spurs will do a sign and trade deal for Scola; or any trade for that matter unless they get financial compensation and Deng in one bag.
??? He's two years into his 4 year rookie deal. Chicago can't even extend him further than that at this point. His deal is what it is, and if they bite on Scola for Deng, you fucking DO IT.

[timvp]

In a regular draft, I'd trade Scola for a 16th pick every year. However, this is the weakest draft in years so I don't know if I make that deal. It depends on if anyone falls.

As far as a Duncan and Scola frontcourt, it really depends on whether Scola is a decent rebounder or not. If he's a bad rebounder, the Spurs are screwed. The season would be over in November.

Do you take that risk?

[timvp]

Oh and if there is anyway the Spurs can get Deng for Scola, that'd go down as the best trade in Spurs history.

[T Park]

Id package Scola to be honest.

Ive never been a fan of his attitude either.

[ChumpDumper]

In a regular draft, I'd trade Scola for a 16th pick every year. However, this is the weakest draft in years so I don't know if I make that deal. It depends on if anyone falls.I make it part of my masterful Nazr-for-Duhon deal.

Scola just doesn't look like he'll fit here unless we play him almost exclusively the 12-15 minutes Duncan is on the bench.

We spent last night pooh-poohing a guy like Fizer, to my mind Luis is a skinnier Fizer without the range. I guess the Argie mystique is what Scola really has going for him, but that's difficult to quantify.

[exstatic]

Fizer has range? Fizer has a jumpshot at any length?

[T Park]

to my mind Luis is a skinnier Fizer without the range

I don't see him saying range.....

[nbascribe]

static.....the contract #s on Scola wouldn't even come close to matching what Deng is making right now. The buyout is not worth the risk unless the Spurs are offered Deng, a first round pick and cash compensation.

[timvp]

static.....the contract #s on Scola wouldn't even come close to matching what Deng is making right now. The buyout is not worth the risk unless the Spurs are offered Deng, a first round pick and cash compensation.

:huh

Scola's deal is going to be bigger than Deng's contract. There's no way the Bulls trade Deng for Scola ... much less adding cash and a first round pick.

[Leetonidas]

I believe in his last game Scola had 24 points and 17 rebounds. That's pretty damn good.

But if we could somehow get Luol Deng...wow. Maybe Nocioni could help us out there? I know he'd love playing with Scola the way Manu plays with Oberto. And he is a SF and so is Deng...you never know.

Atlanta should be looked at for SFs. They have a multitude.

[ChumpDumper]

Fizer has range? Fizer has a jumpshot at any length?Yes. Eyewitness.

[exstatic]

to my mind Luis is a skinnier Fizer without the range



I don't see him saying range.....

Reading is fundamental.

[Slinkyman]

I make it part of my masterful Nazr-for-Duhon deal.

Scola just doesn't look like he'll fit here unless we play him almost exclusively the 12-15 minutes Duncan is on the bench.

We spent last night pooh-poohing a guy like Fizer, to my mind Luis is a skinnier Fizer without the range. I guess the Argie mystique is what Scola really has going for him, but that's difficult to quantify.

The difference is Scola has yet to play an NBA game so sky's the limit while Fizer has had his chance on 3 teams and they all determined he sucked, also Fizer's only success has been in college while Scola has had success in Euroleague which is far superior to college and the olympics where he played very well against NBA players including Tim Duncan.

[ChumpDumper]

Is the sky the limit for Scola?

More like the limit is 10 feet or so. Or whatever his vertical is. Or his rebounding average.
Scola has had success in Euroleague which is far superior to college and the olympics where he played very well against NBA players including Tim Duncan.I remember Oberto was there too. And Ruben Wolkowyski. And Pepe Sanchez. Some games don't translate, and Scola's contract would be about 20 to 30 times that of Fizer at this point.

[Slinkyman]

Is the sky the limit for Scola?

More like the limit is 10 feet or so. Or whatever his vertical is. Or his rebounding average.I remember Oberto was there too. And Ruben Wolkowyski. And Pepe Snachez. Some games don't translate, and Scola's contract would be about 20 times that of Fizer at this point.

Since when does Scola have Rasho's vertical? He's not Amare but he's more athletic then most PFs in this league, but maybe you haven't seen him play? How many people thought Manu was athletic enough to play in this league yet he's able to get into the lane and score better then most players.

Now I'm judging scola from his play in the olympics where he impressed everyone who saw him. Those other guys you named didn't net 20+ PPG on 60% shooting, Scola did. I don't know how good Scola will be but i'm sure he's better then Fizer and more athletic then him too.you're right he'll cost more money the scola but that's because beggers can't be choosers :lol

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think the Spurs will risk paying Scola $4+M/year. If he can somehow pay his buyout on a contract that starts around $2.5M then they will probably sign him. If he can't, then I think they'll look to trade his rights.

I guess it also depends on what else they are doing in free agency ... finding a backup point, athletic forward, etc.

[ChumpDumper]

he's more athletic then most PFs in this leagueI don't think so at all, and I have seen him play.
How many people thought Manu was athletic enough to play in this leagueMost everyone.

If you can tell me how Scola will fit on the floor with Duncan for 25-30 minutes a game, maybe you could convince me. As it stands I'm not crazy about a big buyout taking up most of the MLE when the team has other needs.

[Slinkyman]

Here's a clip from 04, that's a slow unathletic scola running down the court and dunking on richard jefferson. It's high light #4.

Scola over RJ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud_w0_upsgg&search=olympics%20basketball)

How can scola fit with duncan? how does horry fit with duncan? Scola can't hit the 3 but he's not old and slow like Rob.

[timvp]

Here's a clip from 04, that's a slow unathletic scola running down the court and dunking on richard jefferson. It's high light #4.

Scola over RJ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud_w0_upsgg&search=olympics%20basketball)


That doesn't exactly help your case. Scola was 20 feet ahead of RJ and he almost came back to block it.

[timvp]

Plus he looks shorter than Richard Jefferson.

[ChumpDumper]

lol, RJ didn't even start running until Luis was at the time line.

I've seen him play.
How can scola fit with duncan? how does horry fit with duncan? Scola can't hit the 3Why are you taking my side of the argument?

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Chump owns everyone who tries to argue against him.

[objective]

If you can tell me how Scola will fit on the floor with Duncan for 25-30 minutes a game, maybe you could convince me.

20-30 minutes more likely, not all with Duncan. But Scola would fill a Malik Rose type role on the Spurs. Funny how people (like chicago sports writers) forget that Rose played huge minutes down low for the Spurs when Duncan was in his best MVP winning years. All while being 2 inches shorter than Scola.

[ChumpDumper]

Rose could rebound, defend and had a jumper. He's still be here had his deal not been so big.

[picnroll]

Fizer = Scola? Man Fizer should be heading to Europe then where he'd be the best big man on the continent and be making good money. Somehow I'm doubting that.

[ChumpDumper]

Man Fizer should be heading to Europe then where he'd be the best big man on the continent and be making good money.That was my suggestion for him if he didn't get picked up by an NBA team. Oberto was one of the best big men in Europe too.

[Slinkyman]

That doesn't exactly help your case. Scola was 20 feet ahead of RJ and he almost came back to block it.

RJ is also an all star and one of the most athletic players in the NBA, i'm not saying scola is amare again! but he ain't oberto or rasho. Put things into perspective, a PF out ran a SG down the court and dunked on him. How often does that happen to RJ?

[MannyIsGod]

Heres the thing with Scolat that concerns me. We need rebounding help. When Oberto and Scola were discussed here, Oberto was said to be far and away the better rebounder of the 2. And I thought Oberto's rebounding in the NBA was EXTREMELY weak. So if the best rebounder is a horrible one, what does that say about about Scola? We can't have another big that is a piss poor rebounder. Thats not going to solve a damn thing.

[MannyIsGod]

RJ is also an all star and one of the most athletic players in the NBA, i'm not saying scola is amare again! but he ain't oberto or rasho. Put things into perspective, a PF out ran a SG down the court and dunked on him. How often does that happen to RJ?Well, if you always give the PF a headstart it would probably happen pretty damn often.

[Slinkyman]

Fizer = Scola? Man Fizer should be heading to Europe then where he'd be the best big man on the continent and be making good money. Somehow I'm doubting that.

Fizer wouldn't be the best big man on the continent of Antarctica if there was a league there, he's a washed up scrub who's best days are well past him.

[ChumpDumper]

a PF out ran a SG down the court and dunked on him. How often does that happen to RJ?With a 20-foot head start and RJ only turning on the jets at halfcourt? I would bet on Fizer in those conditions too.

[ChumpDumper]

Fizer wouldn't be the best big man on the continent of Antarctica if there was a league there, he's a washed up scrub who's best days are well past him.And you saw him play how many times this past season?

None?

[Slinkyman]

Well, if you always give the PF a headstart it would probably happen pretty damn often.

how much of a head start did he have? When scola was at the foul line RJ was at the 3 pt line. maybe i'm wrong but there's not 20 feet between the foul line and the 3 pt line but i'm not familar with euro rules

[Slinkyman]

And you saw him play how many times last season?

None?

How many games did he play in the nba? NONE? :lol

[ChumpDumper]

How many games did he play in the nba? NONE? :lolAnother thing he has in common with Scola.

[Slinkyman]

Another thing he has in common with Scola.

not exactly, scola plays in pro leagues while fizer is playing in the scrub league with high schoolers.

[ChumpDumper]

not exactly, scola plays in pro leagues while fizer is playing in the scrub league with high schoolers."Not the NBA" is not the NBA.

You say the sky is the limit with Scola. What is your prediction for his production as a Spur next season?

[picnroll]

One of Oberto's best attributes last year was his rebounding. His per 48 numbers were second only to Duncan. That's not even counting taps to others on the team where he was probably the best of the Spurs at.

[Slinkyman]

i just realized Mark Madsen was drafted in the same draft as Fizer, who thought mad dog would be the one still in the league :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Actually Marcus finished the season in the league. Try to keep up.

[MannyIsGod]

One of Oberto's best attributes last year was his rebounding. His per 48 numbers were second only to Duncan. That's not even counting taps to others on the team where he was probably the best of the Spurs at.The per 48 stat is probably the worst used stat of all. His rebounding was not impressive. And Scola isn't supposed to be as good as him, which leads me to beileve it would only hurt the Spurs rebounding.

[Slinkyman]

"Not the NBA" is not the NBA.

You say the sky is the limit with Scola. What is your prediction for his production as a Spur next season?

Not much probably due to him being a rook, but manu got 20 MPG his first season so i can see Scola getting close to that. I'd say 16 mpg 8 ppg 4 rbg

[Kori Ellis]

I think Scola is better than Oberto or Javtokas. But I just don't know if he will fit on the Spurs or if he's worth how much they'll need to pay him because of the buyout. If we were talking about him making 1 or 2M a year, it's a no brainer to bring him over. But will that be enough? I doubt it. No one even knows if the buyout has been reduced or to how much. Last season we kept hearing the buyout had been reduced, and in the end it was 14.5M :wow Now lately I've heard everything from 3.5M to 5M. Who knows.

It all depends on what else the Spurs can do. If they can find a taller player who is more of an athlete and a rebounder, then they'll probably deal Scola's rights. If he's the best option and cheap, then they'll probably sign him.

[ChumpDumper]

Not much probably due to him being a rook, but manu got 20 MPG his first season so i can see Scola getting close to that. I'd say 16 mpg 8 ppg 4 rbgSeeing as Fizer got 7 points and 2.3 boards in 13 minutes for the Hornets in 3 games, I am now forced to agree that Scola is worth 30 times as much as Fizer.

[MannyIsGod]

I think Scola is better than both of them 2, but there wasn't person who watched both he and Oberto play before last year that thought Scola was even close to the rebounder Oberto was. And Oberto turned out to be a very very lukewarm NBA player.

[Slinkyman]

Actually Marcus finished the season in the league. Try to keep up.

i don't count 10 day contracts as "being in the league" but ok. 3 games he played in 2 of which he didn't play until NO was 30+ points down in garbage time. The one game he did get to play in the first half against 'non-scrub' players he stunk it up and didn't get put back into the game after that.

[strangeweather]

Seeing as Fizer got 7 points and 2.3 boards in 13 minutes for the Hornets in 3 games, I am now forced to agree that Scola is worth 30 times as much as Fizer.

Where does the 30x come from? Is it a salary differential?

[Slinkyman]

Seeing as Fizer got 7 points and 2.3 boards in 13 minutes for the Hornets in 3 games, I am now forced to agree that Scola is worth 30 times as much as Fizer.

he padded his stats in garbage time against other scrubs :lol

[Slinkyman]

Where does the 30x come from? Is it a salary differential?

right now Fizer would play for 8 dollars an hour :lol

[ducks]

how many players from overseas the first year make a big impact usually it is the second year

[Kori Ellis]

but there wasn't person who watched both he and Oberto play before last year that thought Scola was even close to the rebounder Oberto was.

I don't remember that. I always thought Oberto and Scola both averaged about 6-7 rpg.

I remember Oberto touted as a better passer and defender. Scola, obviously, much better offensively. And neither of them being awesome rebounders (but not that horrible either).

[T Park]

Chump is such an Austin Toros homer :P

[ChumpDumper]

Where does the 30x come from? Is it a salary differential?Pretty much. If Scola takes up most of the MLE it will be a waste, since the Spurs have much more pressing needs. No one has even attempted to explain how he would work in an offense with Duncan. All I've gotten is "he's really good in Europe." Well, so was Antione Rigadeau and Arvydas Macijauskas.

Tell me what Scola is going to do for the Spurs, because 8 and 4 isn't going to be worth our MLE.

[Slinkyman]

I don't remember that. I always thought Oberto and Scola both averaged about 6-7 rpg.

oberto from 03-04: 5.7 rpg LINK (http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AJE&temporada=E03)

scola from 05-06: 6.5 rpg LINK (http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AJG)

[Kori Ellis]

oberto from 03-04: 5.7 rpg LINK (http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AJE&temporada=E03)

scola from 05-06: 6.5 rpg LINK (http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AJG)

Yeah that's about what I thought.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump is such an Austin Toros homer :PSimply using Fizer for comparison. I need to be convinced we should blow our MLE on a similar player. I see Scola's upside as Corliss Williamson-like at best, and he's been overpaid as well.

[ALVAREZ6]

I think Scola is better than both of them 2, but there wasn't person who watched both he and Oberto play before last year that thought Scola was even close to the rebounder Oberto was. And Oberto turned out to be a very very lukewarm NBA player.
I'm not so sure that no one thought Scola was even close to the rebounder Oberto was...maybe people thought Oberto was a better rebounder but I think you are exaggerating.

Anway, everyone wanted Scola last summer. Oberto was signed only because it wasn't possible to sign Scola that summer. It seems like the Spurs were like what the hell, fuck it, we might as well give this Oberto guy a shot.

[Slinkyman]

Simply using Fizer for comparison. I need to be convinced we should blow our MLE on a similar player. I see Scola's upside as Corliss Williamson-like at best, and he's been overpaid as well.

Fizer is more like Williamson while Scola is more like Malik or Kenny Thomas

[ChumpDumper]

In what way?

There is no way Scola is the athlete or rebounder or defender Rose or Thomas is. If you're saying Scola could average a double double for a season like Thomas has you have a screw loose.

[picnroll]

In an effectiveness analysis in the 2004 Olympics link (http://eba-stats.com/form/estaten2004.pdf) Scola was tops on Argentina followed closely by Manu with a big drop off to guys like Nocioni and Oberto. Others top for their team were Duncan, Gasol, Yao, Bogut. Scola averaged 5.0 rebounds per game throughout the Olympics. Don't know how that compared to other players.

[ChumpDumper]

So what does that mean for Scola in the NBA?

[Spurologist]

Scola was the one that was pouting when Oberto, not him made it to the spurs. If he wants to play, he has to accept a reasonable contract given by the spurs.

[picnroll]

So what does that mean for Scola in the NBA?
Good question. Only one way to ever find out. Not saying Scola will eb but did you think Nocioni would be as effective as he is?

[ChumpDumper]

Nocioni had an outside shot, so I thought it might be a bit easier for him. Chicago also paid alot less to find out.

[ChumpDumper]

Look, I'm not really anti-Scola. I was all for bringing him over last summer for most of the MLE. The team's situation is drastically different this summer and I need to be convinced that using that money on Scola is better than spending it on our other, more glaring needs -- especially if all we can expect from Scola next year are Fizer-like numbers.

[picnroll]

Nocioni has improved his outside shot considerably since he got to the NBA going from .401 to .461 and on 3s from .258 to .391.

I'm not super pro-Scola and hope he's attainable for less than full MLE. I've just got a feeling he's going to be another of those game changer type Argentines. My bigger concern is not rebounding but defense.

[objective]

One thing I'm putting forward:

Scola will be less undersized at PF than Oberto was at C

and


Scola was the one that was pouting when Oberto, not him made it to the spurs.

not really with regards to Oberto, he was congratulating Oberto in the media right after the news broke. Scola was more disappointed in not making the NBA, Oberto wasn't an issue.

[SpursStillTippin]

no not the #16 pick, lets talk bout that #2 pick. lol they are dumb but not that dumb

[Slinkyman]

In what way?

There is no way Scola is the athlete or rebounder or defender Rose or Thomas is. If you're saying Scola could average a double double for a season like Thomas has you have a screw loose.

I think he is as athletic as those 2 or at least compariable, same with rebounding and defense. Could scola avg. a double double? in the "new NBA" with the way the rules have changed yes i think so but not right away. 8 and 4 is a reasonable guess on what he can contribute but he will change the game the same way Manu does, in ways that don't show up on the box score.

Here's a couple quotes from last year:


“Luis Scola almost certainly will be a better NBA player than anyone who will be drafted Tuesday night,” said Skip Bayless on ESPN.com. “Think Manu at power forward. Scola attacks the glass the way Manu attacks the rim.”


“We haven't made the final decisions yet. If we did sign him, what he is, is a very, very heady player. He's probably the best forward in Europe right now,” Pop told us. “He's more like Malik than he is like Robert Horry. Although, he's a decent mid-range shooter. What he is is a worker, a rebounder, great hands. He can score under the bucket at about 6’9”. He's like Manu. He knows how to play. He knows how to win.”

[V-2]

People bitching about Scola commanding 4M+ per year, but didn't the Spurs set the table with Oberto and his 2.5M per?
The most intriguing thing about Scola is not his offensive ability, but rather his attitude. This kid is tough, he'll kick ass when necessary. Remember when he stepped over JermO? No JT, Stack, or JHoward will drive to the basket without paying the price.
Scola will bring some needed toughness to this roster. He's 6'8'', he has Malik Rose energy, he'll be fine. Please don't compare him to Oberto, Scola is a different animal.

[Slinkyman]

Nocioni had an outside shot, so I thought it might be a bit easier for him. Chicago also paid alot less to find out.

Not that much less actually Nocioni got around 3 years/ 8 million, how much more do you think Scola is going to want? 3 years 10 mil? To me that seems likely if scola's buyout is the 3 million figure it's rumored to be, and it would leave around 2 million give or take of the MLE to sign another player.

[picnroll]

Did Nocioni have a buyout? If so how much was it?

[ducks]

last year there was a rumor he wanted the full mle
that would be like 5.5 million a year
WAY TO MUCH FOR A DAMM ROOKIE

[adonis827]

package the draft rights to scola + rasho for something

[smeagol]

:lmao

Chump owns everyone who tries to argue against him.
You forgot the argument Hedo > Manu in 2004 where he got owned by whottt. :lol

[adonis827]

scola > oberto

[leemajors]

i don't know how good scola will be in the nba but i would like to find out. but if we can package him for some more pressing needs i will be happy with that too. we just don't have too many chips to make a good deal and he is probably the best chance at a decent deal.

[timvp]

The best thing Scola has going for him is he's from Argentina. With the way Manu and Nocioni have exploded on the scene, I wouldn't be too mad if the Spurs try to see if Argentine phenoms run in threes.

But if Scola were from like Brazil, Mexico or even Serbia, I'd be pissed that the Spurs were even looking at bringing over a no rebounding, no shot blocking, no shooting power forward.

[El_Mago]

Personally, I don't feel the Spurs even need Scola.

He's an undersized PF, who does not have the arm length to even make up for his size at PF and give him a decent shot at rebounds...ala...Reggie Evans.

His defense is nothing great...not a great shot blocker.

He's been scolded by RC for not passing the ball and rebounding.

He's not ultra athletic to where he can guard SF's like Josh Howard....nor is he quick enough to guard athletes such as Dirk, nor is he strong enough or have the height to handle Amare....in a playoff series.

Now, if the Spurs needed offense....especially low post offense then Luis Scola is your man. He's a talent offensively and has good low post moves. However, the Spurs already have enough scoring talent.....and Scola does not bring us what we trully need....rebounding nor an athletic player around 6-9 or 6-10 who can keep up with bigger SG's, long SF's, and hybrid PF's.

Sorry, time to ship his rights away. No way he deserves the full MLE or even the majority...at max $2.5 million.

[Nbadan]

The Spurs will shop Scola's rights, but not for the 16th pick in the draft, unless theres a Euro that the Spurs feel will slip to that pick that they can keep overseas.

Fizer has always had the talent to play in the NBA, but his head just has'nt been in it - yet.

[Kori Ellis]

Fizer has always had the talent to play in the NBA, but his head just has'nt been in it - yet.

Actually his body hasn't been in it. He has had injury problems. Torn ACL, re-occuring other knee problems, rumored back problems, etc.

[Nbadan]

Actually his body hasn't been in it. He has had injury problems. Torn ACL, re-occuring other knee problems, rumored back problems, etc.

That's true, but he was the 05-06 NBADL player of the year. Certainly worthy of a look by the Spurs.

[ChumpDumper]

Remember when he stepped over JermO?Jermiane stepped over Scola after he got blocked from behind. No reason to get that one wrong.
how much more do you think Scola is going to want? 3 years 10 mil? how much more do you think Scola is going to want? 3 years 10 mil? Yes, seeing as we thought Scola's buyout was workable last summer, only to find out it was $16 million or so..
You might want to check out Hedo's splits vs. Dallas before you gloat too much. I wanted to keep both but knew that was impossible.[quote]The best thing Scola has going for him is he's from Argentina. With the way Manu and Nocioni have exploded on the scene, I wouldn't be too mad if the Spurs try to see if Argentine phenoms run in threes.

But if Scola were from like Brazil, Mexico or even Serbia, I'd be pissed that the Spurs were even looking at bringing over a no rebounding, no shot blocking, no shooting power forward.Were I not hopped up on muscle relaxants, this is the kind of post I would make. Argie mystique is trumping common sense. There is a small chance there's truth there, but was it there with Oberto too?

[FreshPrince22]

Actually, we'd be interested in one of: Deng, Nocioni. If Scola's post game is a redundnacy in SA, having two young SFs in Chicago is as well.

This is graded as an EXTREMELY weak draft by all accounts. The 16 pick may not make it out of his rookie contract.

The draft is weak at the top, but it's not that bad in the mid-late first round.

And the Bulls aren't going to give up Deng or Nocioni for Scola. Scola's contract is still up in the air, he's about the age of a guy who has been in the league for 5-8 years (depending on college/HS), and he's unproven on this level (Oberto anyone?).

[Kori Ellis]

Interesting (almost off topic) article on possible Chicago moves..

Marion, Odom may be Bulls’ best chance for summer trade
By Mike McGraw
Daily Herald Sports Writer
Posted Monday, May 29, 2006


Before anyone gets carried away and starts calling the Bulls-Heat series the real Eastern Conference finalsæ…

There is no question Bulls general manager John Paxson and coach Scott Skiles would love to add an experienced player who could kick the team beyond the first round of the playoffs.

Of course, a suitable trade may not come along. Of the names most often mentioned, Kevin Garnett and Chris Bosh won’t be available. Jermaine O’Neal isn’t worth the money.

When the Bulls look around to see if they can turn the No. 2 draft pick into a valuable veteran, two names to keep in mind are Shawn Marion and Lamar Odom.

There is talk around the NBA that the Phoenix Suns may be willing to move Marion this summer. At first glance, the idea seems absurd, since the 28-year-old forward is coming off consecutive third-team all-NBA honors.

But here’s the theory: The Suns’ payroll is already close to $60 million for next season, just below luxury-tax threshold. The team also has a new owner, Robert Sarver, who paid a high price to gain control from the Colangelo family.

The Suns expect to have Amare Stoudemire back from a knee injury next year, and they found a capable small forward in Boris Diaw, who won the most-improved-player award and hit the winning shot against Dallas in Game 1 of the Western Conference finals.

Marion is owed about $48.5 million over the next three years, so the Suns might be willing to make a trade if they can get a big man in return and lose a few million in salary. Trimming the payroll would help Phoenix re-sign Diaw and guard Leandro Barbosa, who are eligible for extensions.

The Bulls could send their two first-round draft picks to Phoenix for Marion, which would give the Suns a shot at LaMarcus Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas with the No. 2 selection and also lower their payroll by about $10 million.

Would the Suns be interested in such a deal? Hard to say, but former Phoenix general manager Bryan Colangelo is sitting in Toronto with the No. 1 pick and might jump on the same trade if it’s available.

Skiles coached Marion, who grew up in North Chicago, early in his career. But Marion may not necessarily be a slam-dunk acquisition for the Bulls.

Marion’s statistics (21.8 points, 11.8 rebounds this season) have been reasonably consistent, but his field-goal percentage skyrocketed when point guard Steve Nash showed up in Phoenix.

The key questions for the Bulls would be whether Marion can be as valuable without Nash or if he’s worth a $17.1 million salary in the 2008-09 season. Marion’s strongest suit is his athleticism and drive. He’s great on the fastbreak and tough to keep off the offensive boards, but he isn’t really a go-to offensive player.

The Bulls haven’t had any serious discussions with the Los Angeles Lakers about Odom. But the Bulls would love to plug him in at power forward, and it seems apparent that the 6-foot-10 Odom isn’t meshing well with Kobe Bryant.

Odom averaged 17.1 points and 9.7 rebounds in 2003-04, his lone season with Miami. He scored 14.8 points for the Lakers this year, shooting a career-high 48.1 percent.

The trouble here is finding a deal that would suit both sides. It’s hard to imagine Lakers coach Phil Jackson endorsing Odom for the No. 2 pick, since he’s looking to make quick progress. The Lakers could gain around $10 million in cap room for 2007 from that deal.

Perhaps the Lakers feel Tyson Chandler could improve their interior defense. Chandler, Chris Duhon and the No. 16 pick for Odom is an idea, though Chandler has more money left on his contract than Odom’s $40.6 million over three years.

Another obvious issue for the Bulls when exploring any trade this summer is why give up the No. 2 pick for a forward when there is a good chance they could sign Atlanta free agent Al Harrington (18.6 points, 6.9 rebounds) outright without giving up any assets.

There will be few easy decisions for Paxson this summer.

[ChumpDumper]

The draft is weak at the top, but it's not that bad in the mid-late first round.

And the Bulls aren't going to give up Deng or Nocioni for Scola. Scola's contract is still up in the air, he's about the age of a guy who has been in the league for 5-6 years, and he's unproven on this level (Oberto anyone?).Exactly. Anyone thinking we could trade Scola for more than a pick is delusional. The only posters with any balls said Scola won't really contribute for a year or two -- how is that different from a guy like Shawne Williams?

[TDMVPDPOY]

lets hope scola doesnt take our MLE and stink on the bench like aka jerome james.

[V-2]

Will Spurs fans get a second serving of Latin flavor on its roster next season?


They will according to those close to Luis Scola, including his agent Claudio Villanueva, who says the power forward is ready to play in San Antonio.

Scola, 24, who led Argentina to its first Olympic gold medal in Greece last summer, expects to leave Spanish ACB powerhouse Tau Ceramica for the NBA next season.

"I confirm that that will be the case," one source close to Scola told Argentina sports newspaper Olé, while Villanueva told Olé, "We cannot say that the deal is done because we all know how this world works, but there are all the indications to think that Luis will play next year in the NBA."

Scola was selected by the Spurs with the 56th pick in the 2002 NBA draft. He is under contract with Tau until 2006, with a $2 million buyout clause.

Spurs officials won't comment on the situation because there are still too many hurdles to clear, but general manager R.C. Buford traveled to Europe as recently as late December to watch Scola play.

Villanueva indicated that Scola nearly played for the Spurs this season.

"After the Olympic Games they (Spurs executives) made an approach but they had problems regarding the salary cap."

[whottt]

You forgot the argument Hedo > Manu in 2004 where he got owned by whottt. :lol


I forgot about that one myself. But that's not as good as the immortal, "I want to see Ron Mercer running the point".

Chump gets owned... well pretty much any time he takes a definitive stand on something, which is why you never see him do that.

However...I don't really disagree with anything he's saying on the boards right now, except I like Scola more this year than I did last year.


My take on Scola: I don't think he will be the defensive liability that many seem to think. He never has been when I have seen him. He does what he is supposed to do on D, plays hard, and isn't soft.


I think his problems coming to the NBA will be that his offensive game won't translate well to the NBA, and I am still worried about his rebounding. We really need a damn big than can rebound...we can't afford another 4+ million fucking dollars a year for a fucking bigman that can't even get 6 boards a game. We need at least one role playing big that can rebound better than some of the good 2 guards in the NBA.

The bigmen in the NBA are faster, more athletic and bigger than they are in Europe, the style of inside play is completely different, and I think much of Scola's success is due to the quality of bigs he is playing against. There's been one truly impressive bigman in Euroleague history, that was also impressive in the NBA...until this changes I am going to be skeptical.


I will say this though...I am more in favor of signing Scola now than I was last year...if small ball is going to be a big part of our and the NBA's future, then Scola's NBA transition and game will benefit...he can be effective in an uptempo small ball style of play.

[waly.mg]

If You want to know if Scola can run, Jump and Block, look at him 4 years ago in Indy

http://www.autoservizi.com.ar/scola_jermaine.wmv

No more words necessary

[strangeweather]

I think his problems coming to the NBA will be that his offensive game won't translate well to the NBA, and I am still worried about his rebounding.

Even if it translates to the NBA, it's hard to see how it would mesh effectively with Tim's.

[TDMVPDPOY]

most of his points will go well with td playin at the top settin pick n roles.

[xcoriate]

eh?

You want Scola and Tim to run the pick and roll? I don't think that will be Pop's strategy.

I like many others am not entirely convinced, his rebounding is weak and he's not athletic. Other international stars that the Spurs have picked up that possess the "not athletic" trait include Oberto, Gaze and Heal. The first two have both been proclaimed at one point in time the best player from their respective nations.

It is by no means a sure thing that Scola's game will translate to the NBA, let alone mesh with Tim Duncans so IMO its not worth giving him 4-5M a year.

[picnroll]

I would think the Spurs have some leverage on the amount of the contract Scola signs with them. If he doesn't work a deal this summer he either has to 1) extend a long term deal in Europe 2) play next year on a last year deal with Tau risking injury and no future contract in place or 3) accept an NBA deal and begin the two year clock ticking on gettign a better NBA payday if he's any good when he negotiates as a restricted free agent.

[Bruno]

^^ Agree, the situation isn't the same than with Jasikevicious : it's Spurs or Tau for Scola. I think $10M/3 years isn't a pipe dream.

I'm sold on Scola, I think he can be a good nba player.

[ChumpDumper]

Alright everybody, what do you think would be Scola's numbers next year as a Spur, and his peak production after he acclimates.

Convince me we need to spend the MLE on him instead of addressing other needs. I'm listening.

Step up, hootie.

[picnroll]

Alright everybody, what do you think would be Scola's numbers next year as a Spur, and his peak production after he acclimates.

Convince me we need to spend the MLE on him instead of addressing other needs. I'm listening.

Step up, hootie.
First tell me who the Spurs can realistically acquire as an alternative using their MLE and also tell me if you are certain that Scola will require the full MLE to sign.

[ducks]

3 million a year for 3 yearsI have no problem paying scola
the mle for 3 years I do

that is close to being the number pick in the nba gets

[ChumpDumper]

First tell me who the Spurs can realistically acquire as an alternative using their MLEAnyone who wouldn't require more. Lists are everywhere, and our needs are well known.
and also tell me if you are certain that Scola will require the full MLE to sign.Tell me you are certain he wouldn't.

[MoSpur]

I think Scola will be a good servicable player in the NBA. Not a great one. I like Jasikevicious a little better. Its a feeling I have.

[picnroll]

Anyone who wouldn't require more. Lists are everywhere, and our needs are well known.Tell me you are certain he wouldn't.
Not certain but I think there is a chance he can be had for less than MLE.

Scola is an asset. He can be signed, particualrly if for less than MLE, and used. He can be signed, particularly if for less than MLE, and hope he explodes a la Nocioni and not a la Sarunas, and then he is a very valubale trade assest. He can be traded before he enters the NBA. So it all depends on what the mix is of what you can get and how.

[ChumpDumper]

If he could be signed for Nocioni money, that wouldn't be so bad. I need to be sold on his being worth more than that, because I don't think his trade stock will be any higher than it is now.

[picnroll]

You never know. Nocioni came into the NBA with questions about whether he was athletic enough and with a reputation of being a shaky shooter.

[Dartherus]

Is the sky the limit for Scola?

More like the limit is 10 feet or so. Or whatever his vertical is.
Did you Watch the USA-Argentina match in 2002?
Did you see the HUGE block of Scola over Jermaine O'Neal?
Do you think a guy with just low vertical would be able to do that?


Or his rebounding average.
He averaged 7 rebounds per game in Spanish league Regular season, that's pretty nice for european standards in top teams, For instance, Nicola Vujkic (6'11"), who made tho the ideal Euroleague Starting lineup at the Center Spot, averages less rebounds per game.
And in current Spanish playoff, Scola is averaging 21 ppg and 11.5 rpg, something monstruous for european standards. His latest opopnents were, amongs Others Fran Vasquez 6'11" PF, #11 draft pick by Orlando, and He Scored 24 pts and 17 rebs against him in last game...


I remember Oberto was there too. And Ruben Wolkowyski. And Pepe Sanchez. Some games don't translate, and Scola's contract would be about 20 to 30 times that of Fizer at this point.
Why do you remember such players, and fail to remember NOCIONI?
do you know that he was Scola's teammate?
Do you know that he was clearly behind Scola in performance in the same team?
Do you know that, unlike Sanchez ,Oberto or Wolkowisky, Scola has ATHLETICISM? he won't be an athletic freak, but has at least above average athleticism ofr being a NBA PF?
Do you know his D has improved a lot?
Do you know that when he faced NBA players, he has scored a lot on them, using ONE ON ONE moves (unlike other FIBA players, who tend to score more against NBA players in complex collective plays)? and he's almost stoppable in One on One? he has to be guarded in Europe using complex zone defense that are never seen in NBA?

[strangeweather]

You never know. Nocioni came into the NBA with questions about whether he was athletic enough and with a reputation of being a shaky shooter.

Exactly -- you never know. So if it's not too expensive to find out, great. If he costs a lot of money and forecloses our other options with the midlevel, then it's a pretty dangerous risk.

[picnroll]

When is the beginnng of free agency signing relative to the World Championships?

Will the Spurs get one more look at Scola against guys like Petro, Diaw maybe the USA before they have to get into the free agency pool?

[objective]

the WBC starts 2nd half of August, but there should be tune-up games and tournys before that.

Free Agency typically starts July 1. But with the new CBA I don't remember how the negotiating period and the signing period work now.

[SenorSpur]

Personally, I don't feel the Spurs even need Scola.

He's an undersized PF, who does not have the arm length to even make up for his size at PF and give him a decent shot at rebounds...ala...Reggie Evans.

His defense is nothing great...not a great shot blocker.

He's been scolded by RC for not passing the ball and rebounding.

He's not ultra athletic to where he can guard SF's like Josh Howard....nor is he quick enough to guard athletes such as Dirk, nor is he strong enough or have the height to handle Amare....in a playoff series.

Now, if the Spurs needed offense....especially low post offense then Luis Scola is your man. He's a talent offensively and has good low post moves. However, the Spurs already have enough scoring talent.....and Scola does not bring us what we trully need....rebounding nor an athletic player around 6-9 or 6-10 who can keep up with bigger SG's, long SF's, and hybrid PF's.

Sorry, time to ship his rights away. No way he deserves the full MLE or even the majority...at max $2.5 million.

Well said and I agree completely. The league dynamics have changed since Scola was drafted. While he may have been a fit a few years ago, it's very possible he doesn't fit now.

Like El Mago stated, we need rebounding, quickness and athleticism from a player in the 6-9 or 6-10 size range.

With the competition the Spurs will be facing from the perennial contenders and emerging teams, there's no sense settling for any player that doesn't provide those skills.

[ChumpDumper]

Did you Watch the USA-Argentina match in 2002?
Did you see the HUGE block of Scola over Jermaine O'Neal?
Do you think a guy with just low vertical would be able to do that?From behind? As JO is on the way up? Yes.
He averaged 7 rebounds per game in Spanish league Regular season, that's pretty nice for european standards in top teams, For instance, Nicola Vujkic (6'11"), who made tho the ideal Euroleague Starting lineup at the Center Spot, averages less rebounds per game.
And in current Spanish playoff, Scola is averaging 21 ppg and 11.5 rpg, something monstruous for european standards. His latest opopnents were, amongs Others Fran Vasquez 6'11" PF, #11 draft pick by Orlando, and He Scored 24 pts and 17 rebs against him in last game...So what does that mean his numbers will be in the NBA?
Why do you remember such players, and fail to remember NOCIONI?
do you know that he was Scola's teammate?He's been discussed, dumbass.
Do you know that, unlike Sanchez ,Oberto or Wolkowisky, Scola has ATHLETICISM? he won't be an athletic freak, but has at least above average athleticism ofr being a NBA PF?I disagree. At best he would be average in that respect.[quote[Do you know his D has improved a lot?
Do you know that when he faced NBA players, he has scored a lot on them, using ONE ON ONE moves (unlike other FIBA players, who tend to score more against NBA players in complex collective plays)? and he's almost stoppable in One on One? he has to be guarded in Europe using complex zone defense that are never seen in NBA?[/QUOTE]There are lots of things in Europe that we never see in the NBA.

I know what Scola does and how he does it - and that is precisely why I'm not all that excited about blowing the MLE on him. Last summer, I was all for it. This year, I need convincing since we have other more pressing needs. Your condescending diatribe didn't work in that respect.

[ducks]

alot of blocks the guy is on his toes he does not jump
had oneal watched more film on scola before the game I am not sold that he would have been blocked

[waly.mg]

hahahahahahhaha

Too many people never saw Scola playing in Europe or in Front of the Great NBA players, like Duncan, Gasol, Jermaine, Big Ben, Irk and others, and they are saying 2,5 millions is a lot of money

Nazr is in the Marker a Full MLE Player, Malik Rose too, Rasho is a 7 M a year, or Worst Keith Van Horn is a 15 M player

I don´t think full MLE but 3-4 millions a year isn´t too much, for a player who can score 24 Points and 17 R, in a FIBA game, and i say FIBA games because these games are of 40 minutes, not 48, this a performance of 30 minutes and in the NBA every starters plays 35-40 minutes

In the NBA with 20 Minutes a Game, Scola can score around of 10 Points and 4-5 Rebounds, in 5-6 Attempts, he´s a +70 FT shooter and probably is the only player who can play in the Clutch with Duncan, because the other Nazr-Rasho-Oberto can´t

In the NBA he´ll be a Rookie but Scola right now have:

1 WC Championship with a Final appearance
1 Olympic Games with a Final too
2 Final Fours in Europe
He probably played at least 20 games like the Game 7 of a NBA Playoffs

Someones in the NBA will never have his experience with Really great Numbers

Olympic Final: 25 Points (10/13 FG) and 11 Rebounds
Semis vs USA: 10 Points (5/11 FG) and 4 Rebounds and ...2 Blocks
vs Spain and Gasol: 28 Points (12/18 FG)and 9 Rebounds
vs Yao and China: 15 Points (6/7 FG) and 4 RB is a Garbage Game

And we can try to sign him first and let him play with a 3-4 Million contract, if he can´t play too many team still will be interested in an trade for him

[ChumpDumper]

$2.5 million would be fine as I have said so many times before -- I simply don't believe that will be his asking price because of the buyout.

I don't need Scola's CV in every other post -- I know it and I have seen the games you speak of.

10 and 5 in 20mpg may not be enough to convince me to drop $4 million on the guy this summer.

[Dartherus]

From behind? As JO is on the way up? Yes.So what does that mean his numbers will be in the NBA?He's been discussed, dumbass.
It seems your nick would be more accurate without the 'Dumper'...
Before go into namecalling, learn something about quoting, apart from that, also learn something about Basketball concepts, strategy, tactics, fundamentals....your empty insults seem an easy escape when you're out of arguments....

You still fail to acknowledge that the sames concerns about Nocioni were present the moment he signed the bulls, you also fail to grasp that Scola is quite closer to Nocioni regarding mental strenghtm physical skills, and athleticism than to Oberto, Wolkowyski or Sanchez....You also fail to grasp that, after realizing Scola is at least average in phisical strenght, athleticism and speed for the NBA PF standards, he has a lot of things FAR ABOVE the average NBA PF...INTELLIGENCE (something it seems that even you need a lot), footwork (no more than 3 NBA player has the uqntity/uqlity of Scola's post moves), fundamentals, team awareness intensity and a great winner character....



Do you know that when he faced NBA players, he has scored a lot on them, using ONE ON ONE moves (unlike other FIBA players, who tend to score more against NBA players in complex collective plays)? and he's almost stoppable in One on One? he has to be guarded in Europe using complex zone defense that are never seen in NBA?There are lots of things in Europe that we never see in the NBA.
Again, you're missing basketball concepts, the lack of Zone defense would benefit him, so, it's not like that part of NBA rules would hurt his game.


I know what Scola does and how he does it - and that is precisely why I'm not all that excited about blowing the MLE on him. Last summer, I was all for it. This year, I need convincing since we have other more pressing needs. Your condescending diatribe didn't work in that respect.
I told this zillions of time before Nocioni entered the NBA, ignorants rant about paying him 3 mill per year...and I told them over and over that it was a bargain...now the same scenario is with Scola...

FWIW, Gasol stats were 11ppg and 5 rpg in Spanish league, before winning the ROY, Nocioni Stats were inferior in Tau Ceramica (Scola and Nocioni team back then) than what he got in the latest playoffs, leading the Bulls, if you want to call someone 'dumbass', at least learn to understand Basketball, and to acknoeledge that European basketball is quite a more collective game, the ballhog figure is almost non-existant then, at least in the best TEAMS...

I almost forgot, the Block of Scola to JO was from behind, so? I was talking about his vertical, when many guys say he can't jump, I give them an example he can, I wasn't talking about how well executed was the block.

[ducks]

unfortunally in the nba for big that is about the asking price

but the spurs have the advantage telling him he is freaking rookie and they can show what lebron james made as a rookie

[ducks]

does scola have a higher basketball iq then manu or barry?

Dartherus

[ChumpDumper]

Again no one has to sell me on what hot shit they think Scola is, so take all your little diatribes about his Herculean strength and cheetahlike speed and 50 inch vertical and stuff it.

I know who he is and what he does.

I need to be convinced that we should blow our money on him instead of addressing our other needs. Or convince me he's only going to cost what Oberto or Nocioni did (which at this point is impossible).

[picnroll]

He certainly has more balls than Barry

I think Scola will do well in the NBA but Sarunas had some questions similar to Scola regarding was he athletic enough. Assuming his skills cross the Atlantic the legitimate question ChumperDumper and others have asked is does Scola fill te gaping holes the Spurs have which are an athletic big, more proficient at defense and rebounding than scoring, a long three again good at defense and rebounding. Have to have at least one of those two. And finally a good backup PG. Scola doesn't fit any of those needs.

But I wouldn't want the Spurs to give Scola away cheaply. The cheaper a contract he's willing to accept the more valuable he is in trade before or after he signed with the Spurs. If Scola could be traded as an offensive low post player for a good big or long 3, and emphasize good, do it.

btw ChumperDumper I looked in that FA thread and didn't find your suggestions about who should and could be gone after.

[ChumpDumper]

btw ChumperDumper I looked in that FA thread and didn't find your suggestions about who should and could be gone after.I assume you have enough knowledge to figure this stuff out. My initial offseason plan actually includes Scola since I have alot of trades going down. However, if someone like Reggie Evans is available for $3 million, for example, do you sign him or Scola for $4 million.

This is why I need to be sold.

[objective]

Exactly what other needs are so important that people need convincing on Scola?

A back-up point? A long swingman? Back up point guards weren't what cost the Spurs against Dallas. 2s and 3s played all series long against Dallas. A big who can produce seems like the much more pressing need, considering Horry disappeared and the only other big who played was Duncan.

The free agent class is so weak that there aren't any gems that are going to slip to the Spurs anyway.

[picnroll]

If Scola is signed by the Spurs won't they have to wait until mid-season to trade him?

As I recall reading Sonics' teammates complained about Reggie giving them wedgies even in parctice. Hope Pop could get that resolved.

[ChumpDumper]

If Scola is signed by the Spurs won't they have to wait until mid-season to trade him?I think it's 90 days, but they could trade his rights at any time.

[WalterBenitez]

Did Nocioni have a buyout? If so how much was it?

I heard Nocioni made an especial agreement with TAU less money around 3.5M (in monthly payments) and agreed that TAU will have the first option whenever he went out NBA.

[picnroll]

How much is Scola getting paid by Tau? How much would he likely get paid if he signed a new contract with a European team after next season?

[waly.mg]

$2.5 million would be fine as I have said so many times before -- I simply don't believe that will be his asking price because of the buyout.

I don't need Scola's CV in every other post -- I know it and I have seen the games you speak of.

10 and 5 in 20mpg may not be enough to convince me to drop $4 million on the guy this summer.

i sayed 10 and 5 in 20 mpg in 5-6 FGA
If Pop let him to shoot 10 times, he will be a 15 PPG player, but i don´t think he´s going to take more than 6 shots a game

[WalterBenitez]

does scola have a higher basketball iq then manu or barry?

Dartherus

Nop, probably he won't do those plays that Manu does

[WalterBenitez]

How much is Scola getting paid by Tau? How much would he likely get paid if he signed a new contract with a European team after next season?

I'd love to know, I remember Manu came to Spurs losing some good money in his rokie contract.

[ducks]

scola better have more balls then baryr but what about iq
barry has a high basketball iq
the poster said scolas was inteligent
I wanted to know if he thought he was smarter then barry or manu

[Slinkyman]

I assume you have enough knowledge to figure this stuff out. My initial offseason plan actually includes Scola since I have alot of trades going down. However, if someone like Reggie Evans is available for $3 million, for example, do you sign him or Scola for $4 million.

This is why I need to be sold.

3 million a year is alot for a scrub like Evans, he's a good rebounder but that's it. IMO he's Nazr's 6'8 twin brother, bad hands, no offensive moves, bad D, can't block shots but he can rebound the basketball. I'd rather pay scola 8 million a year then Evans 3.

[WalterBenitez]

scola better have more balls then baryr but what about iq
barry has a high basketball iq
the poster said scolas was inteligent
I wanted to know if he thought he was smarter then barry or manu

If I am that one :rolleyes ... the answer is NO

[picnroll]

balls X IQ of Scola > balls X IQ of Barry

[Slinkyman]

Where was Barry's BBall IQ when he was throwing in bounds passes. . . out of bounds?

[ducks]

on vacation!

[ChumpDumper]

Exactly what other needs are so important that people need convincing on Scola?

A back-up point? A long swingman? Back up point guards weren't what cost the Spurs against Dallas. 2s and 3s played all series long against Dallas. A big who can produce seems like the much more pressing need, considering Horry disappeared and the only other big who played was Duncan.

The free agent class is so weak that there aren't any gems that are going to slip to the Spurs anyway.So another low post scorer is all we need?

[picnroll]

Revisiting Reggie. He solves the Spurs rebounding. Who does he guard on Dallas? Does he guard Dirk out on the floor? Does he pose any kind of offensive threat that makes Dirk work on defense. How does he matchup against the Suns? Is Reggie the defender to match with Duncan as a shot blocker or contester on the baseline channeling defense. I'm not sure that Evans is the solution.

[ChumpDumper]

Does Scola guard Dirk?

Is Scola an NBA shotblocker?

And where does Scola play in halfcourt sets with Duncan?

I just used Evans as an example, but some of your questions about him could appply to Scola as well.

[objective]

So another low post scorer is all we need?

A big man who can produce will help more. Simple as that.

Paying $4 million for Rasual Butler doesn't cut it. Offering the full MLE to Jared Jeffries only to have the Wizards match isn't any better.

[objective]

And where does Scola play in halfcourt sets with Duncan?

same place Malik played.


Does Scola guard Dirk?

he has a better chance than Rasho.

[ChumpDumper]

A big man who can produce will help more. Simple as that. Produce what? What are your predicted numbers for Scola?

[ChumpDumper]

same place Malik played.I really haven't seen Scola's jumper from the key that much. Is it as reliable as Malik's was?
he has a better chance than Rasho.And that means what? Has he guarded Dirk in the past? I haven't seen those games.

[objective]

Produce. Points, rebounds, hustle. Producing = playing time. Something Rasho hasn't seen in 6 straight playoff series.


What are your predicted numbers for Scola?

Probably Malik at his best, which was 01/02 and 02/03, which was 10 points and 6 rebounds. Provided Javtokas isn't here as well.

[objective]

I really haven't seen Scola's jumper from the key that much. Is it as reliable as Malik's was?

Malik's peak wasn't spent as a jumpshooter.

[picnroll]

Does Scola guard Dirk?

Is Scola an NBA shotblocker?

And where does Scola play in halfcourt sets with Duncan?

I just used Evans as an example, but some of your questions about him could appply to Scola as well.
No
No
Pop said he has a reliable mid-range shot. He's also a good passer from what I've seen. Also I've seen him set good picks and is good at rolling to the basket. Also is good at taking the ball, one, two dribbles to the basket. With Duncan he gives the Spurs a high post pick with options of rolling to the basket or pick and poping. It gives the Spurs the high - low pass. Duncan occupies the best low post defender and the other team has to use a weaker defender on him. Back to the basket Scola has excellent footwork and is clever getting his shot off. Also let's say Duncan averages tops 35 minutes a game. That gives the Spurs a good low post offensive player the 13 or so minutes Duncan is not in the game.

There is no perfect solution unless the Spurs somehow uncover an undiscovered Elton Brand.

[ChumpDumper]

Malik's peak wasn't spent as a jumpshooter.And yet, that's where he was in the halfcourt sets. Same with DRob. Same with Rasho. Same with Horry. Even Nazr had to put up the catapult shot from the key. This is how a big plays with Duncan. It's been that way since his second year. If Scola's jumper is reliable, that's where he'll be a good chunk of the time.

[Dartherus]

Again no one has to sell me on what hot shit they think Scola is, so take all your little diatribes about his Herculean strength and cheetahlike speed and 50 inch vertical and stuff it.
I was trying to teach a little of basketball knowledge, at least basic concepts.. so you'd stop posting no-sense...


I need to be convinced that we should blow our money on him instead of addressing our other needs. Or convince me he's only going to cost what Oberto or Nocioni did (which at this point is impossible).
Who cares a crap about your 'needs' to be convinced? you started with the namecalling and now you feel we owe you explanations and arguments to convince you? Why should we bother Mr Arrogant Prick?

[Kori Ellis]

Will Spurs fans get a second serving of Latin flavor on its roster next season?


They will according to those close to Luis Scola, including his agent Claudio Villanueva, who says the power forward is ready to play in San Antonio.

Scola, 24, who led Argentina to its first Olympic gold medal in Greece last summer, expects to leave Spanish ACB powerhouse Tau Ceramica for the NBA next season.

"I confirm that that will be the case," one source close to Scola told Argentina sports newspaper Olé, while Villanueva told Olé, "We cannot say that the deal is done because we all know how this world works, but there are all the indications to think that Luis will play next year in the NBA."

Scola was selected by the Spurs with the 56th pick in the 2002 NBA draft. He is under contract with Tau until 2006, with a $2 million buyout clause.

Spurs officials won't comment on the situation because there are still too many hurdles to clear, but general manager R.C. Buford traveled to Europe as recently as late December to watch Scola play.

Villanueva indicated that Scola nearly played for the Spurs this season.

"After the Olympic Games they (Spurs executives) made an approach but they had problems regarding the salary cap."

Did you just post this to show how wrong they were about the buyout back then?

[V-2]

They only missed it by 12.5M, right Kori?

[Kori Ellis]

They only missed it by 12.5M, right Kori?

Right.

That's why I'm not hopeful that the latest reports we've heard of 3.5M - 5M for this season are accurate. I don't want them to have to pay Scola close to the MLE.

[timvp]

Hopefully the Spurs have watched Scola play more than any of us. In that time, I hope that they've been able to figure out how well he'd defend and rebound on the NBA. I'm taking for granted that he could score (although even that should be in question), but if he can't rebound or defend there is no way he could start or play meaningful minutes next to Duncan.

If I'm the Spurs, I play hardball with him. Offer Scola a two-year, $5M contract. Scola needs to recognize that his first couple seasons in the NBA he shouldn't be expecting to bank. If he breaks even with his buyout, then that should be good enough for him. If he lives up to his potential that some here claim, he'll get paid good money after that ... just like Manu.

[ChumpDumper]

Who cares a crap about your 'needs' to be convinced?Obviously, you.
you started with the namecallingYou started being a dumbass. Nocioni had already been discussed in the thread. If you can't tell me how Scola would fit, fine. Post his CV again.

[strangeweather]

If I'm the Spurs, I play hardball with him. Offer Scola a two-year, $5M contract. Scola needs to recognize that his first couple seasons in the NBA he shouldn't be expecting to bank. If he breaks even with his buyout, then that should be good enough for him. If he lives up to his potential that some here claim, he'll get paid good money after that ... just like Manu.

Can you retain a guy off a 2-year contract? IIRC, something changed with this with the new CBA, but I can't remember what the rule is.

[timvp]

Can you retain a guy off a 2-year contract? IIRC, something changed with this with the new CBA, but I can't remember what the rule is.

Yeah he'd be a restricted free agent.

[temujin]

Get Scola.

Despite the WC 03 and the Olimpics 04, a lot of folks in the US still think to Euroleague as minor ball.
I have to tell you that a good third of the NBA teams would NOT make the Euroleague Final 4. Definitely not.
Nesterovic was good enough to win NBA titles, and here he was one among a LOT of others.
I knew right from the start that Manu -one of the most incredible players that I have ever seen in this country- would be a hit in the NBA.
Scola is not at that level, but he IS impressive. Very, very very physical.
And he's only 24.

No worry, he'll score his 6-8 points in the long and largely irrelevant season games.
Spurs will ger 55 wins anyway.
And when the playoffs come, and Dallas on site, he will go to REAL work. Size, height and speed.
Perfect for demolishing Novitzki.

That's all the Spurs should care about.
Novitzki won't be protected by the Refs as he's been this year.
One year for the change, and it's enough for them.

Bring Scola in.


That's all the Spurs have to

[ChumpDumper]

Were it a two-year deal, Scola would be a restricted FA but the Spurs would be limited to matching a new contract up to the midlevel.

[timvp]

Were it a two-year deal, Scola would be a restricted FA but the Spurs would be limited to matching a new contract up to the midlevel.

The new collective bargaining agreement has what's called the Gilbert Arenas rule, which forbids teams from offering more than the mid-level exception to another team's second-round draft pick.
:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

Forgot about that one. Does Scola count since he was picked before the new CBA?

[timvp]

I'd think so or else when Sabonis finally made it into the NBA, the Blazers could have signed him using the prehistoric CBA he was drafted under :)

[strangeweather]

In that case, I'm totally down with the 2 year, $5M contract. Whether he will be or not remains to be seen, however. :)

[ChumpDumper]

True enough, some things like supermax contracts were grandfathered in. I always like to see the fine print. If Scola were good enough to consider matching a full MLE offer, I'd be very happy.

[timvp]

True enough, some things like supermax contracts were grandfathered in. I always like to see the fine print. If Scola were good enough to consider matching a full MLE offer, I'd be very happy.

True.

And by that time Mahinmi should hopefully be in the picture. Knowing the Spurs, they'd pass on matching a big offer and just go for the cheap alternative.

[ChumpDumper]

Well we only have four players under contract at that point and Rasho will be in his final year. If he's worth it they might keep him.

[Bruno]

Forgot about that one. Does Scola count since he was picked before the new CBA?

Yes the Gilbert Arenas rule will work for Scola if he sign a two years contract.

A contract that can be attractive for Scola is a 3 years ontract with a player option for the third. Players like player option because they have the feeling to have the power.

[timvp]

Manu's first contract was 2-years, $2.1M, right? Scola should be happy with double that.

[Bruno]

Manu's first contract was 2-years, $2.1M, right? Scola should be happy with double that.

2 years $2.9M if basketball-reference is right.

But now we are in 2006 and euros earns more money in europe and have more value for nba teams.

Don't forget that even if he signs a 3 years/$10M, he will take a paycut towards what he earns in Spain.

[ducks]

2 million buyout helps the spurs

I heard it could be as high as 5 million

[ChumpDumper]

What does he make in Spain?

[ducks]

2 years $2.9M if basketball-reference is right.

But now we are in 2006 and euros earns more money in europe and have more value for nba teams.

Don't forget that even if he signs a 3 years/$10M, he will take a paycut towards what he earns in Spain.
poor :baby




rookies with the new cba can not make what PROVEN NBA PLAYERS MAKE

do not like it DO NOT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT


also they are saying he is ready to play for the spurs making them look like the bad guys if he does not :rolleyes

[Bruno]

What does he make in Spain?

I don't know exactly for this year (you don't know contracts in Europe) but i think that he market value is around $4M in europe.

[timvp]

But now we are in 2006 and euros earns more money in europe and have more value for nba teams.

Don't forget that even if he signs a 3 years/$10M, he will take a paycut towards what he earns in Spain.


I doubt Scola is making that much money. He's still under that contract he signed when he was 17 or whatever. I'd be shocked if he makes over $2M a year.

Scola doesn't deserve to be the highest paid second round draft pick in the history of the NBA. He shouldn't make the money that a top five pick makes.

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't we find out that Sarunas made like $3 million in Israel? That would have to be the ceiling.

[timvp]

Didn't we find out that Sarunas made like $3 million in Israel? That would have to be the ceiling.

Yeah we had this discussion last year. It was concluded that Scola barely makes anything.

Too bad I don't remember the specifics. :hat

[Bruno]

I doubt Scola is making that much money. He's still under that contract he signed when he was 17 or whatever. I'd be shocked if he makes over $2M a year.

Scola doesn't deserve to be the highest paid second round draft pick in the history of the NBA. He shouldn't make the money that a top five pick makes.

I don't speak for this year but for next year.
He is near the end of his 10 years contract.
In a spanish article I've read that he will either leave Tau for the nba or sign an extension with Tau.
If he signs an extension, he will get something like $4m/year.
Vujicic get an offer at €2.5M/year ($3.2M) and you have less taxes in Spain.
Scola has maybe even more value than Scola.

[timvp]

I don't speak for this year but for next year.
He is near the end of his 10 years contract.
In a spanish article I've read that he will either leave Tau for the nba or sign an extension with Tau.
If he signs an extension, he will get something like $4m/year.
Vujicic get an offer at €2.5M/year ($3.2M) and you have less taxes in Spain.

Scola wants to come to the NBA. He knows if he has a couple good seasons, he'll make 10 times as much here. The Spurs would laugh in his face if he tried to use a future Euro contract in negotiations.


Scola has maybe even more value than Scola.

True ... as long as that first Scola can rebound.

:smokin

[ducks]

if spurs lose scola they really did not lose anything
rember he was a late second roudn draft pick
it is not like he has cost the spurs alot

ofcourse with their current needs lettign him sign an extension and not trading his rights woul dbe bad

[picnroll]

Didn't Tau already sign or is intending to sign another big man, I believe Pecka, to replace Scola. They have Drobnjak, David and Splitter now. As has been pinted out this is Tau's last year to get any buy out money off Scola's contract.

If the Spurs lose Scola or his rights to a long term Euro contract they lose an asset. No dancing around that regardless of where he was drafted.

[ducks]

I think scola plays in the nba next season
I am not convinced it will be in a spurs jersey though

would not be shocked if he was a bull

I would give up scola for Nocioni :fro

[Bruno]

Scola wants to come to the NBA. He knows if he has a couple good seasons, he'll make 10 times as much here. The Spurs would laugh in his face if he tried to use a future Euro contract in negotiations.


That's why I say a 2 years contract with a player option can be attractive for him. He can get his raise only after 2 years if he is good and he will have 3 guaranteed years if he sucks. Signing a 4 years contract at $3M/year doens't make financial sense for him.

I pointed too that because some people think you can't earn money ouside the nba.

[Bruno]

Didn't Tau already sign or is intending to sign another big man, I believe Pecka, to replace Scola. They have Drobnjak, David and Splitter now. As has been pinted out this is Tau's last year to get any buy out money off Scola's contract.

If the Spurs lose Scola or his rights to a long term Euro contract they lose an asset. No dancing around that regardless of where he was drafted.

They want to trade/dump Drobnjak.
David is old and Splitter will only stay one more year (last news are he won't stay int the 2006 draft).
Pecker is good but not good enough to start.
If Tau let Scola go, they will sign another bigman like Vujicic.

[strangeweather]

If we could split the midlevel between Scola and someone like Jumaine Jones, bringing him in could definitely make sense. I thought he was way out of that price range.

[ALVAREZ6]

I would give up scola for Nocioni :fro
Who wouldn't, that would be great.


Whoever is the SF for the other team would have a fun night.

Once Bowen is off of them, they can enjoy Nocioni.

[Bruno]

Garbajosa will sign with Raptors for $12m/3 years :spin .
Scola is a better player and is younger than Garbajosa : our only hope to get him for less money is the fact we have his nba rights.

[intlspurshk]

If T Splitter was projected to be within top ten in some mock draft, why can't SPURS trade Scola for a pick between 4th to 8th? If so, SPURS may be able to get Josh Smith or some good SF for the pick.

[Bruno]

If T Splitter was projected to be within top ten in some mock draft, why can't SPURS trade Scola for a pick between 4th to 8th? If so, SPURS may be able to get Josh Smith or some good SF for the pick.

Scola is better than Splitter but Splitter is 5 years younger and has more upside. Draft is mainly based on upside.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Scola wants to come to the NBA. He knows if he has a couple good seasons, he'll make 10 times as much here. The Spurs would laugh in his face if he tried to use a future Euro contract in negotiations.



True ... as long as that first Scola can rebound.

:smokin
u just pwned BRUNO SUNDOV

[waly.mg]

You still continue thinking that basket is playing solely in the United States?

Facts:

NBA is better than The Euroleague but Euroleague is better than NCAA

The best players of Europe are better than the Top 6-9 Picks of the Draft, probably better than the 4-5 too and for Example better than Andrew Bogut, #1 of the 2005 Draft

The NBA rookie Scale is 7.5 Millions 3 years for the #5

Oberto signed that 7.5 years 3 millions contract and Scola in Europe was better player than Oberto when Both played in Europe, so it´s imposible to pay less than 7.5 M - 3 Yr contract

The Marker Value in years past of the Best Eurpean Players was 10-12 M - 3 Yrs Contract, Like Nocioni, Jasikevicius and a few Others

Scola and Nocioni in Europe played at the same level and the same team, and Nocioni was the SF and Scola the PF of the TAU

If Nocioni who was SF in Europe is playing as PF in the NBA, Scola can too


if spurs lose scola they really did not lose anything
rember he was a late second roudn draft pick
it is not like he has cost the spurs alot

He was a 57th Pick Like Manu Ginobili, if we Lost Manu so : The Spurs did not lose anything?

Give me a Break, Scola is a Great Player in Europe, in The Euroleague, in The World Championship and in the Olympics, and if he is going to play in the NBA too

[WalterBenitez]

Manu's first contract was 2-years, $2.1M, right? Scola should be happy with double that.

That's a good point Manu were decided to sacrify some $, bc we was getting more than that money in Europe and he had good chances to have a place in the roster.

I know Scola is good (among the best players) in Europe and a force in ARG's Natl Team; but what could be his role in Spurs; I think he'll have to fight for his minutes.

Finally, $5M in two years sounds great for me ... but not sure that'll be atractive to him.

[ducks]

I want spurs to draft players overseas
they behave and are more fundmentally sound then usa players


most 57 picks are not like manu
scola could be but I doubt he will be an allstar like him DO YOU?

[WalterBenitez]

Scola has maybe even more value than Scola. :oops

[strangeweather]

NBA is better than The Euroleague but Euroleague is better than NCAA

The best players of Europe are better than the Top 6-9 Picks of the Draft, probably better than the 4-5 too and for Example better than Andrew Bogut, #1 of the 2005 Draft
I don't think anyone's saying that the Euroleague isn't any good. But the things that make a player great in the NBA are often different than those in Euroleague.

Some Euroleague stars like Manu excel in the NBA, while others like Jasikevicius or Oberto are minor role players. Even for players that don't end up doing well in the NBA, that doesn't mean they're bad players, it just means that they don't fit well in this style of basketball.


He was a 57th Pick Like Manu Ginobili, if we Lost Manu so : The Spurs did not lose anything?

Give me a Break, Scola is a Great Player in Europe, in The Euroleague, in The World Championship and in the Olympics, and if he is going to play in the NBA too
The pick isn't the issue.

If the Spurs spend too much money on Scola and he doesn't help us, that means we wasted money we could have spent on a player that would help win championships.

[Bruno]

:oops

Now, you haven't the right to make typos ?
Please read :
Scola has maybe even more value than Vujicic.

[waly.mg]

I´m From Argentina and i know Scola more than the "americans"

If i´m the Coach, i make that moves and i place this team in the Field in the Clutch

Parker-Manu-Bowen-Scola-Duncan

With TD and Scola in the Field at the same time the defense can´t guard TD, because if let TD with only one Defender, TD is going to score every ball, if the Defense doubles TD, TD move the ball to Scola who´s with a small defender

In the Spurs we haven´t a Scorer Big Man like Scola, so the defense can make a Double without problems, and for Example with Dallas, Irk can plays only in Offense and is guarding BB, with Scola in the game Irk must to make defensive moves

[TDMVPDPOY]

You still continue thinking that basket is playing solely in the United States?

Facts:

NBA is better than The Euroleague but Euroleague is better than NCAA

The best players of Europe are better than the Top 6-9 Picks of the Draft, probably better than the 4-5 too and for Example better than Andrew Bogut, #1 of the 2005 Draft

The NBA rookie Scale is 7.5 Millions 3 years for the #5

Oberto signed that 7.5 years 3 millions contract and Scola in Europe was better player than Oberto when Both played in Europe, so it´s imposible to pay less than 7.5 M - 3 Yr contract

The Marker Value in years past of the Best Eurpean Players was 10-12 M - 3 Yrs Contract, Like Nocioni, Jasikevicius and a few Others

Scola and Nocioni in Europe played at the same level and the same team, and Nocioni was the SF and Scola the PF of the TAU

If Nocioni who was SF in Europe is playing as PF in the NBA, Scola can too



He was a 57th Pick Like Manu Ginobili, if we Lost Manu so : The Spurs did not lose anything?

Give me a Break, Scola is a Great Player in Europe, in The Euroleague, in The World Championship and in the Olympics, and if he is going to play in the NBA too


if you look at nacionis contract, how much of it went to tax?

scola should only be gettin around less than what nacioni got, thats if the spurs doesnt trade him durin the principal of the contract, and its tax free in texas. how much does he really need to live on anyway.

[venitian navigator]

I don't think anyone's saying that the Euroleague isn't any good. But the things that make a player great in the NBA are often different than those in Euroleague.

Some Euroleague stars like Manu excel in the NBA, while others like Jasikevicius or Oberto are minor role players. Even for players that don't end up doing well in the NBA, that doesn't mean they're bad players, it just means that they don't fit well in this style of basketball.


The pick isn't the issue.

If the Spurs spend too much money on Scola and he doesn't help us, that means we wasted money we could have spent on a player that would help win championships.


Both Jasikevicius and Oberto didn' have a fair chance proportional to their level of talent and experience...(it was just their first year and they needed time to "understand" the differences there are between the legues).
They also found a difficult situation in the role they had to play.
This year we had too many men at center with NBA experience and Mohammed was in his contract year...so you had to play him!
Anyway, Fabri didn't played that bad, when He played...
Jasi is, obviously, a play, not a shooting guard like Carlisle is playing him (Bird as always criticized Carlisle for that)...but Indiana had, like us at center, too many persons at play (Tinsley, Johnson).
We'll see next year...

Coming to Scola, the point is that this sumer we have to sign not only Scola but also Javtokas.
Signing both would be, for at least next year, as good as signing two high first choices, doesn't take away from us any right for next year, and would mean sign both with not so huge contracts...(at least for three years, like for Oberto, and for no more than 5,5 milliions for both).
I hope this will be possible considering that, in the Scola situation, we'll have to pay also the buy-out to Tau (that doesn't count on the salary cap, but counts on Holt's pockets).
They both are young (24/26) and the minimun you can say is their value (or, at least, the value of one of them) in the NBA market will be higher next year!

So, I don't see a total waste of time and money...and it could be the last time we could sign them both.
Coming to chances for the title, I don't see a free agent in their roles (center and power forward) more valuable at the some price.
The negative point is I don't see a way, other than sign and trade with other teams, for filling the real other team needs (back up point and small - long forward ) ...

[strangeweather]

Both Jasikevicius and Oberto didn' have a fair chance proportional to their level of talent and experience...(it was just their first year and they needed time to "understand" the differences there are between the legues).
They also found a difficult situation in the role they had to play.
This year we had too many men at center with NBA experience and Mohammed was in his contract year...so you had to play him!
Anyway, Fabri didn't played that bad, when He played...
Jasi is, obviously, a play, not a shooting guard like Carlisle is playing him (Bird as always criticized Carlisle for that)...but Indiana had, like us at center, too many persons at play (Tinsley, Johnson).
We'll see next year...
I'm not criticizing either player, and I'm hopeful that Oberto can build on his past season and work his way into the regular rotation next year. But I seriously doubt that either Jasikevicius or Oberto is going to have the same level of impact in the NBA that Manu or Nocioni have had.

My point is that some european players have a huge impact, and some have a relatively modest impact. It's not always easy to tell which is which up front.


Coming to Scola, the point is that this sumer we have to sign not only Scola but also Javtokas.
Signing both would be, for at least next year, as good as signing two high first choices, doesn't take away from us any right for next year, and would mean sign both with not so huge contracts...(at least for three years, like for Oberto, and for no more than 5,5 milliions for both).
If we spend that much on Scola and Javtokas, it pretty well rules out getting much help at other positions, such as small forward and backup point guard. That's a significant opportunity cost for the organization.


Coming to chances for the title, I don't see a free agent in their roles (center and power forward) more valuable at the some price.
The negative point is I don't see a way, other than sign and trade with other teams, for filling the real other team needs (back up point and small - long forward ) ...
Exactly. Which is why we may either need Scola to come in for less if we can get him for that, or we may need to explore other avenues such as signing cheaper players and trading Scola's rights for someone less expensive who can help us.

[leemajors]

the spurs don't have to pay the buyout, scola has to pay it. i think the most the nba team can contribute to the buyout is like 500k.

[strangeweather]

the spurs don't have to pay the buyout, scola has to pay it. i think the most the nba team can contribute to the buyout is like 500k.

It was 350k unless the new CBA changed that.

[venitian navigator]

I'm not criticizing either player, and I'm hopeful that Oberto can build on his past season and work his way into the regular rotation next year. But I seriously doubt that either Jasikevicius or Oberto is going to have the same level of impact in the NBA that Manu or Nocioni have had.

My point is that some european players have a huge impact, and some have a relatively modest impact. It's not always easy to tell which is which up front.


If we spend that much on Scola and Javtokas, it pretty well rules out getting much help at other positions, such as small forward and backup point guard. That's a significant opportunity cost for the organization.





Exactly. Which is why we may either need Scola to come in for less if we can get him for that, or we may need to explore other avenues such as signing cheaper players and trading Scola's rights for someone less expensive who can help us.



Right, but i think that, next year, at least one of rasho/mohammed will be dealt (for mohammed sign and trade, if possible), and we have to take a decision on Udrih too...
I think N.O. could be a good partner for trading (claxton, mason, jr smith, macijauskas, pj brown)...

[venitian navigator]

the spurs don't have to pay the buyout, scola has to pay it. i think the most the nba team can contribute to the buyout is like 500k.


Yeah, but ther's no rule that say you can't pay the buy out in more than one year...500 k x 5 years is 2.5000 k...!

[ducks]

yes there is

[Ariel]

the spurs don't have to pay the buyout, scola has to pay it. i think the most the nba team can contribute to the buyout is like 500k.
The team does pay it, just not directly, by giving the player a contract large enough to both pay the buyout (except the 500K they can put upfront) and have a fair amount left that would serve as 'real' salary.

If he needs 3.5 M, the team can put up 500K, and he makes 2M a year, for him not to lose money he'd need at least, 5M for 1 year, or 7M for 2 years, or 9M for 3 years, etc. The longer the contract, the lower the cost per year, and viceversa.

A good compromise should be a 7M contract for 2 years. That should give him enough not to lose much money, and allow him to earn much more if he goes on to prove he is worth it in the NBA.

[ducks]

he is not going to make 5 million in year one with the spurs
see you if he wants that

[Ariel]

he is not going to make 5 million in year one with the spurs
see you if he wants that
Which is exactly why I said a 2 year contract would be best. 5M for 1 year wouldn't favor the Spurs, 9M for 3 years wouldn't favor him, 7M for 2 years sounds fair to both.

[objective]

A good compromise should be a 7M contract for 2 years.

then the spurs get worked when they don't have his bird rights.

Better to give three years with player option for year 4 in case he gets injured he has one year's insurance. If he does great, then the Spurs still have Bird rights.

Anyways, I think foreign players usually get loans to pay off the buyouts and then just pay off the loans, they don't hand over a check for millions of dollars.

[Ariel]

then the spurs get worked when they don't have his bird rights.

Better to give three years with player option for year 4 in case he gets injured he has one year's insurance. If he does great, then the Spurs still have Bird rights.
That could be an interesting idea. However I was emphasizing the need to bring him now over a hypothetical scenario 2 years down the road. After all, the Spurs situation then might not even warrant giving him that contract regardless of being capable of doing so or not.


Anyways, I think foreign players usually get loans to pay off the buyouts and then just pay off the loans, they don't hand over a check for millions of dollars.
Regardless the money does have to come from somewhere. I'm not sure that 'we're not giving you the money to pay the buyout, but don't worry, you can do it yourself in 2 or 3 years' is going to work.

[Bruno]

then the spurs get worked when they don't have his bird rights.


No because of the Gilbert Arenas provision.
The best contract for Scola is likely a 3 years contract with a player option for the third.

[objective]

I'm not sure that 'we're not giving you the money to pay the buyout, but don't worry, you can do it yourself in 2 or 3 years' is going to work

I'm not saying that, I'm saying he can pay off the buyout loans over a number of years, he doesn't need 5 mil upfront on July 1 to cover his buyout and taxes. So if he gets 3 or 3.5 per year over 3 or 4 years he can do it.

Anyways, I can't imagine the Spurs would be willing to sign him without getting Bird rights. It isn't just about being able to re-sign him, it's also about being able to be involved in a sign-and-trade.

Spurs were lucky to have cap room after Manu's 2 years were up. They won't have cap room 2 seasons from now. They don't want to get worked like the Warriors were when they lost Gilbert Arenas for nothing.

[objective]

No because of the Gilbert Arenas provision.
The best contract for Scola is likely a 3 years contract with a player option for the third.

Unless something changed when the CBA got re-upped the Spurs need 3 years to have the bird rights. So maybe you mean a 3 year contract with a TEAM option for the 3rd.

[Bruno]

Unless something changed when the CBA got re-upped the Spurs need 3 years to have the bird rights. So maybe you mean a 3 year contract with a TEAM option for the 3rd.

Something has changed and it's called the Gilbert Arenas provision :
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#37

[ChumpDumper]

Under the new rules, it's better to sign Scola and Javtokas to a two-year deal. No other team could offer more than the midlevel after that, and the Spurs could match.

[Bruno]

Under the new rules, it's better to sign Scola and Javtokas to a two-year deal. No other team could offer more than the midlevel after that, and the Spurs could match.

No, other teams can offer more than the MLE.
Only the third year should be under the MLE and you can have a big raise between the third and fourth year.

[objective]

unable to match an offer sheet:

* If the player is a Non-Bird free agent and the team already used their Mid-Level exception to sign another player.

...

* If a team has two Non-Bird free agents with one or two years in the league. They can use the Mid-Level exception to keep one of them, but would lose the other.

if the Spurs sign either to a 2 year deal, then they can't use their MLE that year if they have to match after 2 years (drawback vs. Bird, though at least they get the option to match)

If they sign both, they can only keep one.

[Bruno]

if the Spurs sign either to a 2 year deal, then they can't use their MLE that year if they have to match after 2 years (drawback vs. Bird, though at least they get the option to match)

If they sign both, they can only keep one.

No because you have early-bird rights for a player in the league for 2 years.

[ChumpDumper]

No, other teams can offer more than the MLE.
Only the third year should be under the MLE and you can have a big raise between the third and fourth year.But the Spurs could still match that. The first year's salary is the only one that needs to be matched with the early-Bird exception. Go back and read you link.

[Bruno]

But the Spurs could still match that. The first year's salary is the only one that needs to be matched with the early-Bird exception. Go back and read you link.

Did I say that Spurs can't match. Go back and read my post.