Flip Saunders is the Karl Malone of coaching [Archive]

SAGambler

05-30-2006, 11:23 AM

What happened this team was dominant in the regs.
But it took them 7 games to deal with the Cavs!!!
and they are in real trouble against miami, all of the teamwork that made them such a unit is gone.

First you need to look back to WHO the Pistons ran up that big first half of the season record on. Mostly weak EC teams.

Flip wore their asses out because they started to believe the hype that they could tie or break an all time season record.

For this, Flip is an idiot. But we tried to tell the Pistons about him early on.

Once the ASB was over, Detroit barely was a "good" team, hardly the "great" one that everyone was hyping them to be.

Then when the Cavs took them to 7, and came close to knocking them out, I knew Detroit was in deep shit..

Miami is now reinforcing my suspicions. Detroit has no answer for Shaq and DWade.. I look for this series to end Wednesday night.

CosmicCowboy

05-30-2006, 11:26 AM

What are you guys talking about? Flip is pumped that he made it to the ECF...his lifes goal has been realized...:lol

Jimcs50

05-30-2006, 11:32 AM

What are you guys talking about? Flip is pumped that he made it to the ECF...his lifes goal has been realized...:lol

Miami looked horrible all year. They looked like they had zero chance of winning the East. I can not understsnd how Detroit can lose to Maimi.

Had you gone to Vegas in early April and bet on Dallas-Miami Finals, you could have gotten 20-1 odds.

I do not think Flip is to blame.

JamStone

05-30-2006, 11:37 AM

First you need to look back to WHO the Pistons ran up that big first half of the season record on. Mostly weak EC teams.

Flip wore their asses out because they started to believe the hype that they could tie or break an all time season record.

For this, Flip is an idiot. But we tried to tell the Pistons about him early on.

Once the ASB was over, Detroit barely was a "good" team, hardly the "great" one that everyone was hyping them to be.

Then when the Cavs took them to 7, and came close to knocking them out, I knew Detroit was in deep shit..

Miami is now reinforcing my suspicions. Detroit has no answer for Shaq and DWade.. I look for this series to end Wednesday night.

1. In the first half of the season, the Pistons were 36-5. 19 of those 41 games were against the Western Conference. 10 of those were on the road against Western Conference teams. Pistons were 16-3 against those Western Conference teams, 8-2 on the road against Western Conference teams.

2. None of the Pistons starters averaged 40 minutes per game, or even 38 minutes per game. The five starters were not among the most played players in the league. Quality starters will play 35-38 minutes per game, and that's what the Pistons starters played.

3. After the all star break, the Pistons were 20-9, including three losses in the last four games when homecourt was already decided and reserves were playing crunchtime.

4. LeBron James was amazing in the Cleveland series and certainly exposed some weaknesses the Pistons have.

5. Both Shaq and Wade have been unstoppable so far in the Miami-Detroit series and have gotten their team to play better than the Pistons. They deserve all the credit. Right now, the Miami Heat are the better team.

JamStone

05-30-2006, 11:38 AM

Flip Saunders is the Karl Malone of coaching

It might be a back-handed compliment, but I guess it's better than him being the Cedric Ceballos of coaching.

CavsSuperFan

05-30-2006, 11:50 AM

Sportswriters wrote that “few fighters were ever the same after stepping into the ring with Joe Frazier”....The Pistons just fought seven grueling games against the Mighty Cavaliers & Lebron James... Barely escaping with the series...It had to take a lot out of them....At this point Detroit looks like a shell of their former selves...

Detroit was put through a meat grinder & now they have to deal with Shaquille & Dwyane Wade ...Good Luck... :smokin

Trainwreck2100

05-30-2006, 11:51 AM

as much as i hate Karl Malone, this comparison is an insult to Karl Malone

MadDog73

05-30-2006, 11:54 AM

Miami looked horrible all year. They looked like they had zero chance of winning the East. I can not understsnd how Detroit can lose to Maimi.

Had you gone to Vegas in early April and bet on Dallas-Miami Finals, you could have gotten 20-1 odds.

I do not think Flip is to blame.

So, who is to blame, Jim? I thought the coach was ultimately responsible for the players actions... or so you opined about Pop and Manu.

Tek_XX

05-30-2006, 01:46 PM

Detroit wasted all their jizz obliterating teams in the first half of the season.

FreshPrince22

05-30-2006, 01:53 PM

Personally, I think it's because the offensive scheme is a gimmick. Instead of looking to score inside, they look for 15-20 footers. This is difficult to guard in the 82 game season because it's different than other teams, but when you can focus in on it, any respectable coach can adjust to it. That's what has happend.

Not to mention the defensive rotations are garbage, and with Ben guarding Shaq it leaves a highway to the basket.

Tek_XX

05-30-2006, 01:56 PM

I've noticed Hamilton is having trouble scoring off those picks, isn't that Detroits bread and butter?

FreshPrince22

05-30-2006, 01:59 PM

I've noticed Hamilton is having trouble scoring off those picks, isn't that Detroits bread and butter?

Not anymore. Flip/Chauncey would rather run high pick and rolls to death to get switches and let the guard go one-on-one with a big man. Never mind that it's usually Rasheed being guarded by a point guard. They'd rather let Billups/Rip/Tayshaun throw up an iso 20 footer.

Jimcs50

05-30-2006, 02:14 PM

So, who is to blame, Jim? I thought the coach was ultimately responsible for the players actions... or so you opined about Pop and Manu.

Detroit did not change their whole game plan and their personality, a game plan that won them 64 games, like Pop did in SA. If a team wins 64 or 63 games, and that team fails to win with that same game plan, then it is the team that failed not the coach.

Trainwreck2100

05-30-2006, 02:16 PM

I said this the entire season (when I thought the Spurs were going to go) Det. will not win with Flip Saunders calling the plays.

ShoogarBear

05-30-2006, 02:46 PM

A lottalotta people said that Flip in the playoffs would be the weak link. I don't usually pull Jims, but I said this too.

What are you guys talking about? Flip is pumped that he made it to the ECF...his lifes goal has been realized...:lol

Interesting trivia question here. How many coaches have lost in both Conference Finals without making it to the Finals?

I already know of one, currently vacationing in Hawaii.

MadDog73

05-30-2006, 02:47 PM

Detroit did not change their whole game plan and their personality, a game plan that won them 64 games, like Pop did in SA. If a team wins 64 or 63 games, and that team fails to win with that same game plan, then it is the team that failed not the coach.

Damn, Jim, you're all about making excuses for Spurs' players aren't you?

So, it's Pop's fault Tim misses his free throws, Bruce misses wide open threes, Manu fouls Dirk, and Spurs miss two chances to score in the last possession.

It's the Spurs fault the NBA blew a call which probably cost them Game 4.

There are so many things to blame for the Spurs losing this series, and yet you only pick one of them: Pop's Coaching.

I wish there was an alternative universe so we could see what would happen if Rasho or Nazr played 20 minutes a night. But there isn't, and all we have left is the fact that the only game where Nazr played significant minutes, we were blown out, and the fact we would have won the series if any of a number of things happened.

Jim, I seriously suggest you find another sport to watch, because if you can't handle watching Pop coach, you're going to be a very unhappy Spurs fan for a long time to come.

nbascribe

05-30-2006, 03:02 PM

Flip is dealing with a bunch of bitches who won't accept responsibility. I thought this was funny when George Blaha asked him about the players publically commenting on his coaching ability:

"My message to them?" Saunders said. "You want to talk about a lack of defense, yeah, there's a lack of defense because guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do. If I gave up 50 points in the paint (which the Pistons did in Game 3) and I gave up 13 straight-line drives to the basket when I am supposed to be guarding somebody -- I mean, these are things you learn in the sixth grade. Stay between your man and the basket.
"If you can't do that, you are right, there is going to be a defensive lapse. This isn't about egos right now. This is about winning. If you have a job to do, go out and do your job."

That's freaking classic and shows that the Pistons' players aren't listening to the coach and thus they will burn tomorrow nite in their own damn building. It will be another Dec. 19, 2004 episode all over again...RIOTS, RIOTS, RIOTS when the Pistons are knocked out of the playoffs.

Jimcs50

05-30-2006, 03:14 PM

Jim, I seriously suggest you find another sport to watch, because if you can't handle watching Pop coach, you're going to be a very unhappy Spurs fan for a long time to come.

The point is, and I have made it many times, you do not fix what ain't broke.

The Spurs won a CLUB RECORD, 63 games with the center-PF offense and defense, they won game 1, then, they lost game 2(like the Spurs have never lost a game in playoffs before with a stinker game :rolleyes ) and Pop throws out all what they have done to win 3 championships and 63 games this year and he decides to put his players in a defense that they have never played before for a whole game, much less a series. That, IMO is what cost them the title this year.

The Spurs are not a run and gun team...what is so hard to understand about that?????

nbascribe

05-30-2006, 03:18 PM

The point is, and I have made it many times, you do not fix what ain't broke.

The Spurs won a CLUB RECORD, 63 games with the center-PF offense and defense, they won game 1, then, they lost game 2(like the Spurs have never lost a game in playoffs before with a stinker game :rolleyes ) and Pop throws out all what they have done to win 3 championships and 63 games this year and he decides to put his players in a defense that they have never played before for a whole game, much less a series. That, IMO is what cost them the title this year.

The Spurs are not a run and gun team...what is so hard to understand about that?????

Huh???

Jim I saw 60 of their games this year away and home and Pop ran the same defensive schemes. When it came to the playoffs and what Dallas did, it was about the Mavs' coaching staff KNOWING the defense that helped them win the games they won.

Even with Pop changing up his defenisve assignments to handle a very healthy mavericks team, the Spurs were in a lot of the games they lost. They lost the games on offensive production; not on defense.

strangeweather

05-30-2006, 03:23 PM

Detroit did not change their whole game plan and their personality, a game plan that won them 64 games, like Pop did in SA. If a team wins 64 or 63 games, and that team fails to win with that same game plan, then it is the team that failed not the coach.

So near-total inflexibility and a categorical refusal to make adjustments based on matchups are the hallmarks of great coaching?

MadDog73

05-30-2006, 03:27 PM

The point is, and I have made it many times, you do not fix what ain't broke.

The Spurs won a CLUB RECORD, 63 games with the center-PF offense and defense, they won game 1, then, they lost game 2(like the Spurs have never lost a game in playoffs before with a stinker game :rolleyes ) and Pop throws out all what they have done to win 3 championships and 63 games this year and he decides to put his players in a defense that they have never played before for a whole game, much less a series. That, IMO is what cost them the title this year.

The Spurs are not a run and gun team...what is so hard to understand about that?????

And yet, the Spurs still could've won.

What's so hard to understand about that?!?

So, without the bullshit call, Spurs win Game 4. We win 5 and 6, and series over.

If you have to blame somebody, blame the NBA refs. But don't blame the coach from whom you've gotten 3 Championships.

Spurs would be nowhere without Pop, and Tim would probably be in Orlando or some other place by now, if you really feel like playing "What if..."

strangeweather

05-30-2006, 03:28 PM

The Spurs won a CLUB RECORD, 63 games with the center-PF offense and defense, they won game 1, then, they lost game 2(like the Spurs have never lost a game in playoffs before with a stinker game :rolleyes ) and Pop throws out all what they have done to win 3 championships and 63 games this year and he decides to put his players in a defense that they have never played before for a whole game, much less a series. That, IMO is what cost them the title this year.
What does beating Golden State and the Knicks in November have to do with beating the Mavs in a 7-game series? They split with the Mavs during the regular season, which makes the other 61 wins pretty irrelevant for the series.

The Spurs are not a run and gun team...what is so hard to understand about that?????
Center or not, they played a hell of a lot more "run and gun" against the Suns last year than they did this year against the Mavs. Was that a complete fuckup as well?

Jimcs50

05-30-2006, 03:33 PM

What does beating Golden State and the Knicks in November have to do with beating the Mavs in a 7-game series? They split with the Mavs during the regular season, which makes the other 61 wins pretty irrelevant for the series.

Center or not, they played a hell of a lot more "run and gun" against the Suns last year than they did this year against the Mavs. Was that a complete fuckup as well?

They played their same defense last year. Nazr was huge in that series, the Spurs won the series because of rebounding, not because of running and gunning.

The Spurs LOST this series because of lack of rebounding, not because of the refs.

The Mavs out rebounded the Spurs in 6 games

Had SA gotten 2 defensive rebounds in games 3 and 4....they would be playing the Suns right now.

StanleyKubrick

05-30-2006, 03:34 PM

And yet, the Spurs still could've won.

What's so hard to understand about that?!?

So, without the bullshit call, Spurs win Game 4. We win 5 and 6, and series over.

If you have to blame somebody, blame the NBA refs. But don't blame the coach from whom you've gotten 3 Championships.

Spurs would be nowhere without Pop, and Tim would probably be in Orlando or some other place by now, if you really feel like playing "What if..."

OK then mr "lets get in our time machine"....lets go back and change that blocked shot at the end of game 5 to a foul on Bowen. I know Mouse posted a million pictures here of it. Bowen fouled Dirk. Lets call that a foul and give Dirk 2 free points at the line and see who wins the series. Idiot.

strangeweather

05-30-2006, 03:42 PM

They played their same defense last year. Nazr was huge in that series, the Spurs won the series because of rebounding, not because of running and gunning.

So you think the tempo was completely incidental last year -- it had no affect on the strategy of either team?

Lineup changes are strategy that should never be changed, but tempo has no affect on the outcome of a game, so it can go however it goes?

Had SA gotten 2 defensive rebounds in games 3 and 4....they would be playing the Suns right now.

And if they had replaced Finley's 12 point performance in Game 5 with 4 points and 3 turnovers from Nazr (to say nothing of the weaker perimeter defense), they would lave lost in 5 games.

Jimcs50

05-30-2006, 03:44 PM

So you think the tempo was completely incidental last year -- it had no affect on the strategy of either team?

Lineup changes are strategy that should never be changed, but tempo has no affect on the outcome of a game, so it can go however it goes?

.

Who said np Finley??? Finley played in the reg season you know. We could have had a little less Brent and NVE and we would have won the series.

And if they had replaced Finley's 12 point performance in Game 5 with 4 points and 3 turnovers from Nazr (to say nothing of the weaker perimeter defense), they would lave lost in 5 games

MadDog73

05-30-2006, 03:49 PM

OK then mr "lets get in our time machine"....lets go back and change that blocked shot at the end of game 5 to a foul on Bowen. I know Mouse posted a million pictures here of it. Bowen fouled Dirk. Lets call that a foul and give Dirk 2 free points at the line and see who wins the series. Idiot.

Fuck you "Spurs Fan". If you bothered to read the post, you'd see I was playing "what if" to deflect criticism of Pop.

Mavs deserved to win. Bottom line. Lots of factors, Pop's coaching included, but you can't put a Game 7 overtime loss on just one thing.

That's my fucking point, retard.

strangeweather

05-30-2006, 03:52 PM

Who said np Finley??? Finley played in the reg season you know. We could have had a little less Brent and NVE and we would have won the series.

Fin got the start and played 43 minutes. Barry and Nick didn't play all that many minutes, and nearly half of them were at the point, so you can't substitute Fin there, right?

And don't forget that a lot of Duncan's 36 were thanks to him not being doubled. Do you think he goes for that many if Dallas is doubling off Nazr or Rasho all night?

nbascribe

05-30-2006, 04:25 PM

Had SA gotten 2 defensive rebounds in games 3 and 4....they would be playing the Suns right now.

And if my left nut could guess the right six numbers I'd be pushing a Panoz convertible. What the hell does that have to do with them losing?

The Spurs lost this series because of the following reasons:
1) BENCH PRODUCTION WAS SO PISS POOR THAT EVEN STEVIE WONDER KNEW WE MIGHT LOSE!

2) The Spurs executed very poorly down the stretch of the tight games they lost.

3) Poor decisions…BOTTOM LINE. MANU LISTENS AND FOLLOWS ORDERS AFTER HITTING THE THREE, WE'RE ALL HAPPY AS PIGS IN SHIT.

That's what it boils down to. Those three things. Spurs implement those three things, we're still playing. But again, if my left nut could talk to my right nut, I'd be like Penny Marshall…I'D BUY MYSELF A CHAMPIONSHIP RING!!

DarrinS

05-30-2006, 04:29 PM

And if my left nut could guess the right six numbers I'd be pushing a Panoz convertible. What the hell does that have to do with them losing?

The Spurs lost this series because of the following reasons:
1) BENCH PRODUCTION WAS SO PISS POOR THAT EVEN STEVIE WONDER KNEW WE MIGHT LOSE!

2) The Spurs executed very poorly down the stretch of the tight games they lost.

3) Poor decisions…BOTTOM LINE. MANU LISTENS AND FOLLOWS ORDERS AFTER HITTING THE THREE, WE'RE ALL HAPPY AS PIGS IN SHIT.

That's what it boils down to. Those three things. Spurs implement those three things, we're still playing. But again, if my left nut could talk to my right nut, I'd be like Penny Marshall…I'D BUY MYSELF A CHAMPIONSHIP RING!!

Damn. I actually agree with you. Definitely the lack of bench production. In all 3 Spurs championship seasons, at least ONE bench player came up HUGE!!! Hell, I was surprised that the series was so close, given that we had Nick Van Helsing in there. It also doesn't help when your starting PG starts fading away in important games.

DuncanInYourFace

05-30-2006, 04:37 PM