NBA's 60 Greatest Playoff Moments

[FromWayDowntown]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere -- I couldn't find it, so I went ahead.

Link (http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/moments/60moments.html)

The NBA has come out with a list of the 60 greatest playoff moments, and has revealed them in order from 11-60 (the voting on 1-10 is still ongoing, apparently). The list includes the Memorial Day Miracle and Rob's Dagger in Detroit (along with various other of Robert Horry's Greatest Hits). It also includes .4, as one might expect.

One thing that struck me in reviewing the list was this:

Which of these two is a better "moment":

Player A goes for 28 points, 20 rebounds, 9 assists and 8 blocks in Game 2 of the Finals to tie the series at 1-1.

Player B goes for 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks in Game 6 of the Finals to clinch the series 4-2.

In the rankings, Player B (Tim Duncan, 2003 Finals) effort gets #47 on the list. Player A (Shaquille O'Neal, 2001 Finals) gets #37 on the same list.

[LEONARD]

Shaq >>>>>>>>> Duncan

/end of thread

[themvp]

Shaq >>>>>>>>> Duncan




Dream on..

[RON ARTEST]

Dream on..
shaq in his whole career is WAY better than duncan.

[FromWayDowntown]

The issue with Shaq and Tim notwithstanding, I think the list is an interesting walk down playoff history. So many compelling stories, monsterous performances, and huge shots.

[FromWayDowntown]

shaq in his whole career is WAY better than duncan.

Perhaps. But is Shaq's performance in Game 2 of the 2001 Finals a better performance -- a greater moment -- than Tim's epic in Game 6 of the 2003 Finals? The panelists thought so; I'm guessing based on the notion that Shaq>Tim. I'd dispute it, but I'm not terribly objective about it, either.

[Jimcs50]

I rated Horry's shot over Sean's too, and I was in vast minority in here. Looks like I was right afterall.



25. Robert Horry 3-Pointer Vs. Pistons; Game 5, 2005 Finals
Robert Horry delivers yet another memorable playoff moment, leading the Spurs to a double OT win and a 3-2 Series lead. In what will go down as one of the great clutch performances of all-time, "Big-Shot Rob" scores all 21 of his points in the fourth quarter and overtime, including a 3-pointer with 5.8 seconds remaining, to give the Spurs a 96-95 victory at the Palace, where the Pistons had been 63-19 over the past two regular seasons. Despite Detroit’s Game 6 bounce-back win, the Spurs would end any thoughts Detroit had of back-to-back championships, as they closed it out in front of the home crowd, 81-74.

54. Sean Elliott's Memorial Day Miracle; Game 2, 1999 Western Conference Finals
Having trailed by as many as 18 points late in the third quarter, and down 85-83 with 12 seconds remaining, Sean Elliott produced one of the most memorable plays in Spurs history. Elliott, coming off a screen in the low post, took a pass that was nearly picked off by Portland's Stacey Augmon. Elliott's momentum carried him to the sideline, where he pirouetted to avoid stepping out of bounds. On his toes and with little time to set himself, Elliott let fly from the corner. The ball dropped through, putting the Spurs up 2-0 in the series and serving as momentum that would result in the first ever title for David Robinson and the Spurs.

[RON ARTEST]

Perhaps. But is Shaq's performance in Game 2 of the 2001 Finals a better performance -- a greater moment -- than Tim's epic in Game 6 of the 2003 Finals? The panelists thought so; I'm guessing based on the notion that Shaq>Tim. I'd dispute it, but I'm not terribly objective about it, either.
those are both some great stats though.

[FromWayDowntown]

I rated Horry's shot over Sean's too, and I was in vast minority in here. Looks like I was right afterall.

In NBA history, I'd say your right -- for the same reasons that I think Tim's near quad should be rated higher than Shaq's.

In Spurs history, though, I think Sean's is clearly the bigger shot.

[Leetonidas]

Tim's shot right before .4 was so amazing. That would've been one of the greatest in Spurs history had Fisher not ruined it.

[ShoogarBear]

Tim's shot right before .4 was so amazing. That would've been one of the greatest in Spurs history had Fisher not ruined it.

Yep, that and Manu's 3 in game 7 . . . :depressed

[1Parker1]

.04 :pctoss

BTW, I wonder what #1 will be...

[George Gervin's Afro]

Wow I still get goose bumps watching all three of those videos.. I have a feeling we have another run in us..maybe two...

[ShoogarBear]

If you've never seen #14 before, watch it. Now.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

#13 gave me goosebumps...

Been a while since I've seen that vid...

[ShoogarBear]

:lol I noticed they wussed out and had a three-way tie for #60.

[Jimcs50]

I am glad that Hakeem's schooling of DRob did not make the cut.

[1Parker1]

24. Pacers Defeat Knicks; Game 1, 1995, Eastern Conference Semifinals
Reggie Miller capped a 31-point game by scoring eight points over an 8.9-second span, wiping out a six-point Knicks lead and giving the Pacers a series-opening 107-105 win before a stunned MSG audience.

That was sick...reminds me of the T-Mac game :pctoss

[George Gervin's Afro]

I am glad that Hakeem's schooling of DRob did not make the cut.


I agree..That was ugly..

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

That was the infamous choke sign game, right? Spike who?

[whottt]

I don't really understand why you are so convinced that Duncan's was more impressive...


Shaq had 7 more points, Duncan had 1 more assist. 7 pts>>>1 assist.

Furthermore...Shaq's was against a better team and more importantly, one of his defenders was a 2 time DPOY Center. While Duncan was going up against.........Jason Collins, and Kenyon Martin. It could be argued that Shaq's game came under more pressure as well since his team was trailing in their series...


And lastly, these moments are not intended to be statistically evaluated...they are based on memorability...while Duncan's near quad was talked about quite a bit at the time(moreso than Shaq's IIRC), it had several competeing storylines from the same game, courtesy of Duncan's own teamates...

David Robinson going out a champ in his final game for one...with a 17 rebound performance no less.

Stephen Jackson turning from Mr. Hyde back into Dr. Jeckyll and hitting 3 or 4 clutch 3's down the stretch.

There were no little subdramas competing with Shaq's performance.


I personally enjoyed Duncan's performance more, but I'd say Shaq's would have been the more impressive and memorable performance to the non biased fan. And statistically his was more impressive as well....7 pts >>>>> 1 assist, no matter how you slice it.

[whottt]

I think Horry's overall performance was bigger and yeah, coming in a must win game on the road on the road, his shot was bigger as well....

But there is absolutely no doubt that Elliott's shot was the more difficult....and that's what makes his so memorable.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't really understand why you are so convinced that Duncan's was more impressive...

Context, more than anything else. A near quad in a clincher, as opposed to a near quad in a game that signalled the end of a series that had no real drama.

I don't disagree with your points (Mutombo v. Collins, etc.), and will readily admit to being a homer on this one -- at least in part. But whichever you put in front of the other, I don't see the 2 performances as being 10 spots apart from each other on a list like this one.

[Spurminator]

Man, Tim Duncan's Shot to Win Game 5 of the 2004 WCSF's should have been on that list... Cursed fate...

[whottt]

Why is Duncan's more impressive because it came in a series clincher?

The Nets were a freaking 49 win team...in actuallity the damn series shouldn't have even gone 6 games and likely wouldn't have had Pop not hated Steve Kerr preventing us from blowing double digit leads...

The Sixers were a much more impressive team than that Nets team...and IIRC Shaq's performance came on the road in Philly with his team down 0-1.


Duncan smashing a woefully inferior and over-matched team is not the same caliber as Shaq taking out a better team(record wise) on their own home court against a 2 time DPOY C.

I don't get that logic and I never have...


It's just like Spursfans making a big deal about AJ's shot against an 8 seed...

It's not a clutch shot, we were dominating the series...

In every playoff series ever played, someone on the winning team has hit the go ahead shot at some point, it is not clutch, it is not impressive, it is an inevitability.

The shots hit by Horry and Elliott OTOH, were last second shots that stole victory from the jaws of fefeat, in highly competitive series the winner of which was in doubt...and I think you could say the same for Shaq's performance moreso than Duncan's.

[whottt]

One other question for you FWDT...

Forget the situations and the names involved...

Just looking at the numbers....which performance would you rather have if you were a coach?

Careful...your rep as a knowledgable fan is on the line.

7 points>>>>>1 assist(and the label of triple double).

[1Parker1]

The Sixers were a much more impressive team than that Nets team...and IIRC Shaq's performance came on the road in Philly with his team down 0-1.

:lol Didn't the Lakers easily win 4 straight to win the title that year against the "impressive" Sixers team?

[DirkAB]

Bird's steal against the Pistons has to be the best basketball play in playoff history. That was so amazing.

[Spurminator]

All other things equal, obviously Shaq's line is better. But the key element of the debate is whether a clinching Game 6 is more crucial than a Game 2.

It's arguable. I think it helps Shaq's case that (a) he's Shaq, (b) he was a Los Angeles Laker, and (c) it occurred in the middle of a three-Championship run.

[Spurminator]

I am glad that Hakeem's schooling of DRob did not make the cut.


Great... Now it's going to be in the top 10.

Nice going Jim. :pctoss

[whottt]

So are you saying the 03 Nets were a better team than the 01 Sixers, laughing girl?

[FromWayDowntown]

Shaq's performance came at home, after the Lakers had lost their only playoff game of that season.

And, FWIW, a common denominator in those performances was Mutombo -- though Deke only played 10 minutes in the 2003 game.

Whottt -- like I said, I don't dispute the absolute statistical superiority of Shaq's game. I'm certain that any coach would be glad to have either performance, but pushed to select one, would take Shaq's every time.

My argument, though, has everything to do with the fact that this list is about flash and dash more than it is about substance. And the flashier performance of the two might very well have been Duncan's because it was a triple-double that almost became a quad and not a double-double that nearly became either a triple or a quad. I'd be foolish to no end to claim that Duncan's performance was clearly superior in any true basketball sense. But I do think, given the circumstances attendant to those numbers, that Tim's was the greater "moment."

[whottt]

That Sixers team had, tied for the best record in the league, the MVP, the DPOY, the 6th man of the Year and the Coach of the Year....


Tell me the last time a team pulled off that quifecta(sic)...

[Spurminator]

Oh, and the video of Elliott's shot doesn't do it justice... One angle in slow motion? Where's the footwork?

[1Parker1]

That Sixers team had, tied for the best record in the league, the MVP, the DPOY, the 6th man of the Year and the Coach of the Year....


Tell me the last time a team pulled off that quifecta(sic)...

Suns came close last season...and did they impress you in the Conference Finals, skeptic boy?

[whottt]

Shaq's performance came at home, after the Lakers had lost their only playoff game of that season.



How can this be?

We had the best record in the league that year with 58 wins and the Sixers were tied with us for it..and in fact they lead the entire NBA wins for much of that season.

[1Parker1]

But **sigh.....thanks for reminding me of the good times Whottt. I do miss those days when people in this city actually believed in the Sixers and they were actually good.

[whottt]

All other things equal, obviously Shaq's line is better. But the key element of the debate is whether a clinching Game 6 is more crucial than a Game 2.

It's arguable. I think it helps Shaq's case that (a) he's Shaq, (b) he was a Los Angeles Laker, and (c) it occurred in the middle of a three-Championship run.




And, FWIW, a common denominator in those performances was Mutombo -- though Deke only played 10 minutes in the 2003 game.



Deke was the DPOY that year.

[whottt]

But **sigh.....thanks for reminding me of the good times Whottt. I do miss those days when people in this city actually believed in the Sixers and they were actually good.


Um the Sixers were the only team to beat the Lakers in the playoffs that year...

Spurs had the best record in the league and got completely assraped and swept off their own home court by the Lakers by the largest average margin of defeat in NBA history...

So even if the Sixers weren't impressive, they looked like the 60's Celtics compared to our Spurs.


Point being...that Sixers Team was far superior to the Nets team that we played....in every concievable way.

[FromWayDowntown]

Deke was the DPOY that year.

He only played 10 minutes in 2003 -- as I said.


How can this be?

We had the best record in the league that year with 58 wins and the Sixers were tied with us for it..and in fact they lead the entire NBA wins for much of that season.

Game 2 Recap, 2001 Finals, nba.com (http://www.nba.com/finals2001/recap_phi_lal_010608.html?nav=SiteFragment)

Maybe the NBA imagined that the game was in LA, too. The byline on the recap for that Game indicates that it was played in Los Angeles. Probably because the Lakers and Sixers each won 56 games that season and the Lakers held the tiebreaker, but that may just be my assumption.

2001 NBA Standings (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2001.html)

[DuncanInYourFace]

Goddamnit

You KNOW Manu's shot would've been on here had he not fucked it up w/ that foul on Dirk.

Would've been one of the greatest games in Spurs playoff history. DAMN

[BillsCarnage]

(the voting on 1-10 is still ongoing, apparently).

I had to vote for the "greatest game ever". That was such a crazy finish.

:drunk

[whottt]

Suns came close last season...and did they impress you in the Conference Finals, skeptic boy?


Amare's performance sure as hell did....

[whottt]

He only played 10 minutes in 2003 -- as I said.



Game 2 Recap, 2001 Finals, nba.com (http://www.nba.com/finals2001/recap_phi_lal_010608.html?nav=SiteFragment)

Maybe the NBA imagined that the game was in LA, too. The byline on the recap for that Game indicates that it was played in Los Angeles. Probably because the Lakers and Sixers each won 56 games that season and the Lakers held the tiebreaker, but that may just be my assumption.

2001 NBA Standings (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2001.html)


Nah...I just checked, Sixers only had 56 wins that year, serves me right for going by memory...but they did have the best record in the league for much of that year. I remember it being in LA now...

I also remember AI pretty much singlehandedly winning game 1 by himself in the 4th quarter and stunning the Staples Center faithful....


Still doesn't make Duncan's performance more impressive. The fact that the Sixers went in and took out an unbeaten playoff team on their own home court in the finals just bangs home(From way downtown) how much better the Sixers were than the Nets.



IIRC Deke was injured just about all of 2003 and his DPOY days were behind him...he was the DPOY the year the year Shaq did his near quad, and Shaq made Deke look like a kindergartener for much of that series.

[FromWayDowntown]

Nah...I just checked, Sixers only had 56 wins that year, serves me right for going by memory...but they did have the best record in the league for much of that year. I remember it being in LA now...

I also remember AI pretty much singlehandedly winning game 1 by himself in the 4th quarter and stunning the Staples Center faithful....


Still doesn't make Duncan's performance more impressive. The fact that the Sixers went in and took out an unbeaten playoff team on their own home court in the finals just bangs home(From way downtown) how much better the Sixers were than the Nets.



IIRC Deke was injured just about all of 2003 and his DPOY days were behind him...he was the DPOY the year the year Shaq did his near quad, and Shaq made Deke look like a kindergartener for much of that series.

Are you just arguing with yourself now? I mean, I don't dispute -- and never have, really -- that Shaq's was the more impressive statistical feat.

What I've said is that I think Duncan's was the better "moment" because of the circumstances. Hence my notation in the original post that Shaq's was Game 2 and evened that series, while Timmy's was Game 6 and clinched the series. You disagree with me about my take on those circumstances. Fair enough.

[whottt]

Are you just arguing with yourself now?

Well I am having a hard time finding a challenge...




What I've said is that I think Duncan's was the better "moment" because of the circumstances. Hence my notation in the original post that Shaq's was Game 2 and evened that series, while Timmy's was Game 6 and clinched the series. You disagree with me about my take on those circumstances. Fair enough.


And as I said initially...it is arguable that Duncan's moment was even the most memorable on his own team from that game...

Journeyman Stephen Jackson came on to hit big shot after big shot...

Back up PG Speedy Claxton came out of nowhere to knock down some big shots due to the struggles of Tony Parker...

Kevin Willis finally winning an NBA championship at the age of 40...I think becoming the oldest first time NBA champion in history...

And Drob, winning the final game of his NBA career in the NBA finals with a classic turn back the clock performance...


Lots of competition from that game..

Duncan din't score a single point in the 19-2 run that took us to the win in that game(although he did have about 4 assists)...but still...lots of memorable moments competing for the spotlight from that game and Duncan's was not exactly a standout, it is arguable if it was even the most memorable "moment" of that game.

[FromWayDowntown]

And as I said initially...it is arguable that Duncan's moment was even the most memorable on his own team from that game...

Journeyman Stephen Jackson came on to hit big shot after big shot...

Back up PG Speedy Claxton came out of nowhere to knock down some big shots due to the struggles of Tony Parker...

Kevin Willis finally winning an NBA championship at the age of 40...I think becoming the oldest first time NBA champion in history...

And Drob, winning the final game of his NBA career in the NBA finals with a classic turn back the clock performance...


Lots of competition from that game..

Duncan din't score a single point in the 19-2 run that took us to the win in that game(although he did have about 4 assists)...but still...lots of memorable moments competing for the spotlight from that game.

I'm sure all of those moments are indelibly etched in the minds of Spurs fans.

But none of them, other than Duncan's transcendant play in that game, carry much weight with those who aren't Spurs fans. The closest is David's awesome conclusion, but the story of that game from a national and historical perspective was Duncan, Duncan, Duncan -- and rightly so.

[timvp]

I'm sure if DRob or the coyote would have put up that kind of stat line in a Finals clinching game, whottt would be trying to get it in the top ten.

[whottt]

I'm sure all of those moments are indelibly etched in the minds of Spurs fans.

But none of them, other than Duncan's transcendant play in that game, carry much weight with those who aren't Spurs fans. The closest is David's awesome conclusion, but the story of that game from a national and historical perspective was Duncan, Duncan, Duncan -- and rightly so.


You seem to have gotten your logic wires crossed FWDT old boy...the only thing memorable about Duncan's performance are the numbers...not the moment...since you have already discounted the numbers you have basically discounted your own argument...

And I'd argue that Duncan's near quad double is what is most remembered from the national and historical perspective....it's just the what was included on the list from that game...

But just in case you need a memory refresher...this national and historical perspective is the same one that has considered Duncan boring for his entire career...

And that national and historical perpective also deemed that series the most uninteresting finals in history based on ratings.

Since you claim to speak for the national and historical perspective, I think it's good that you were reminded of these facts....and I think you should be happy that Duncan's performance is even on the list at all with those factors taken into account...

Anything else you want to add? From the national and historical perspective I mean? Homer?

[whottt]

I'm sure if DRob or the coyote would have put up that kind of stat line in a Finals clinching game, whottt would be trying to get it in the top ten.



Hey...if you ask me it is in the top 3 ever...but I am a Spursfan.

I'm sure that if I hated Shaq with a passion that burns hotter than hell, I would also be trying to rate Duncan over him, homer that I am :majorfuckingrolleyes

[FromWayDowntown]

You seem to have gotten your logic wires crossed FWDT old boy...the only thing memorable about Duncan's performance are the numbers...not the moment...since you have already discounted the numbers you have basically discounted your own argument...

Excellent selective reading -- I didn't discount his numbers against history. I agreed with you that Duncan's numbers weren't as good as Shaq's. That doesn't mean that I think they weren't epic numbers; that doesn't mean that I think that Duncan's performance was just some passing thing that didn't really mean much; that doesn't mean that I think Duncan's statistical performance wasn't historically significant. By your rationalization, if I said that Kobe's 81 weren't as good as Wilt's 100, you'd contend that I had discounted Kobe's numbers. Duncan's numbers weren't as good as Shaq's, but they were monsterously good (and, very nearly, uniquely good) in the context of NBA playoff history.

And I do think the moment was significant to Duncan's performance because it was a clincher.


But just in case you need a memory refresher...this national and historical perspective is the same one that has considered Duncan boring for his entire career...

And that national and historical perpective also deemed that series the most uninteresting finals in history based on ratings.

Viola!! You have finally unraveled the point of my original post. Duncan's performance, which was nearly equal to Shaq's from a statistical standpoint and probably more significant in terms of its context, was relegated to a spot 10 behind Shaq's. Why is that? I think you've answered that question.

[ShoogarBear]

I finally figured it out. whottt and FWD are the same person, in one of those weird Fight Club situations.

[whottt]

I just don't know what you are arguing about...

I mean it's established that Shaq's was the better statistical performance.
It was against a better team.
It was against a better defender.
His team was behind in the series.


Hanging your entire argument on the fact that Duncan's was in a series clincher and Shaq's wasn't, isn't a lot to hang it on....it isn't anything to hang it on....the Sixers were a far better team.

You must have been a bully in school or something....it's like you consider it more impressive for a 10th grader to beat up a 1st grader in 5 minutes than you do for a 10th grader to beat up a 9th grader in 6 minutes...

That's essentially what you are arguing here.

[timvp]

Hanging your entire argument on the fact that Duncan's was in a series clincher and Shaq's wasn't, isn't a lot to hang it on

So David ending his career with 13 points and 17 rebounds in a Finals clinching game doesn't matter? As you say, the Nets sucked and he was going against weak competition.

Damn and I always thought he ended his career in style. Should have gone for a triple double in a sweep.

[whottt]

So David ending his career with 13 points and 17 rebounds in a Finals clinching game doesn't matter? As you say, the Nets sucked and he was going against weak competition.

Seeing as how it didn't even make the list...obviously not.


Damn and I always thought he ended his career in style. Should have gone for a triple double in a sweep.


Hey it's one of my favorite moments....but if I was trying to make some kind of halfbaked statistical/situational analysis, referred to by FWDT in this thread as a "moment", on why he deserves to be ranked higher...I'd lose the argument too, and rightly so.


Duncan's wasn't a bigger moment, statistically, memorably, or any other ly either...to anyone other than homer Spursfans.

[FromWayDowntown]

Hey it's one of my favorite moments....but if I was trying to make some kind of halfbaked statistical/situational analysis, referred to by FWDT in this thread as a "moment", on why he deserves to be ranked higher...I'd lose the argument too, and rightly so.

Again, you miss my point. I'm completely comfortable with Duncan's effort being #47 -- you'll note that many of the "moments" on the list aren't just singular shots or plays, but are game-long performances. My quarrel is with Shaq's "moment," which is statistically better but circumstantially weaker, being ranked 10 places above Duncan's on a list of 60. If Shaq was 46 and Duncan 47, I'd have no problem with that.

[whottt]

Still waiting for you to prove why his was circumstantially weaker...seeing as how his was against a better team, defender, and his team was trailing in the series at the time....

Cue: Indeterminable, undefinable and highly subjective "Moment" spin....


Around and around we go...but when all the spinning has stopped...the word homer will still sum up your entire argument.

[FromWayDowntown]

Still waiting for you to prove why his was circumstantially weaker...seeing as how his was against a better team, defender, and his team was trailing in the series at the time....

Cue: Indeterminable, undefinable and highly subjective "Moment" spin....

I didn't choose the word "moment," the NBA did. I'm simply playing by their rules.

In terms of moments, I think clinchers (when championships are won) trump mid-series games (such as a game that ties a series 1-1).

Does the last shot of a clincher trump a monsterous performance in Game 2? No. Does a monsterous statistical performance in a clincher top a slightly-better monsterous statistical performance in a Game 2? I think so.

You obviously disagree, based on your own indeterminable, undefinable, and highly subjective reasoning.

Fair enough.

[Spurminator]

It's probably fair to say that if the roles were reversed, Shaq would have been ranked higher.

[whottt]

You obviously disagree, based on your own indeterminable, undefinable, and highly subjective reasoning.

Fair enough.


False...

If it comes against a better team, a better opponent, and under more dire circumstances, not to mention has better statistical numbers, and is watched by more people, it qualifies as a bigger moment. If you can give me some kind of sensible argument to counter those largely objective points, I will concede that your silver and black goggles aren't completely hindering your vision.

[Phenomanul]

Where are Kerr's 4 three pointers against Dallas in Game 6 of the 2003 WCF???

[whottt]

It's probably fair to say that if the roles were reversed, Shaq would have been ranked higher.


Then how come Robert Horry's game 5 VS the Pistons last year is ranked higher?


I mean it's all about Shaq right?


Shaq's was the bigger moment, it came in a more impressive situation, and was watched by more people, therefore it is more memorable...9 or 10 spots more memorable in fact. Deal with it. There is absolutely no anti-Spurs/Pro Laker bias in that ranking...it's just simply that Shaq's was more memorable.

[Spurminator]

The "better defender" argument doesn't hold weight. A player's blocked shots are not determined by his defender. Arguably, neither are his assists. Those were the two stats that made Shaq and Duncan's lines stand out, moreso than the points and rebounds. Either of those players has a 20-20 game in the Finals and it's not really news.

Furthermore, the 2003 New Jersey Nets were a superior defensive team. Based on Defensive Efficiency (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=2002), they were the best in the league in 2003. Philly was 5th in 2001.

[whottt]

The "better defender" argument doesn't hold weight. A player's blocked shots are not determined by his defender. Arguably, neither are his assists. Those were the two stats that made Shaq and Duncan's lines stand out, moreso than the points and rebounds. Either of those players has a 20-20 game in the Finals and it's not really news.

Furthermore, the 2003 New Jersey Nets were a superior defensive team. Based on Defensive Efficiency (http://www.basketballreference.com/leagues/leagueyear.htm?lg=N&yr=2002), they were the best in the league in 2003. Philly was 5th in 2001.

Defense can be a factor in points, assists, and rebounds...

Shaq was being defended by the DPOY...


You need a new scale if that has no weight.


Next.

[Spurminator]

Then how come Robert Horry's game 5 VS the Pistons last year is ranked higher?

That's not a similar moment. There are clearly different categories of "moments" on this list... Great statistical games, great shots, great runs, great battles, etc. Comparing Horry's shot to Shaq or Duncan's game would be like comparing apples to Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

But to humor you, if Shaq had hit that shot against the Pistons in Game 5 of an NBA Finals that went 7 games, he would have been even higher. :lol

[Spurminator]

Defense can be a factor in points, assists, and rebounds...

Shaq was being defended by the DPOY...


You need a new scale if that has no weight.


Next.


Then Duncan was being defended by the best Defensive Team in the league, which trumps your best single defender argument because it has more of an effect on assists and rebounds. Plus, it's not like either was being single covered.

Your turn.

[timvp]

Mutombo = Most Overrated Defender of All-Time

[Nikos]

Mutombo = Most Overrated Defender of All-Time

Individual post defender, maybe somewhat. As a shot blocker? Either way he is an excellent defender and extremely valulable on that end.

[whottt]

Then Duncan was being defended by the best Defensive Team in the league, which trumps your best single defender argument because it has more of an effect on assists and rebounds. Plus, it's not like either was being single covered.

Your turn.


Sure....the Nets gave up an average of 1/4 of a point less per game that year than the Sixers in 01...But they didn't have Mutombo for the entire season, had they, it surely would have made the difference in terms of season PPG rankings...and furthermore...the Nets did not have the reigning DPOY defending their interior and to put on Duncan, like the Sixers did on Shaq.


Oh and you are the Karl Malone of the dynasty league...congrats.

Next.

[whottt]

Jason Collins > Dekembe Mutombo


Check yourself....

[whottt]

That's not a similar moment. There are clearly different categories of "moments" on this list... Great statistical games, great shots, great runs, great battles, etc. Comparing Horry's shot to Shaq or Duncan's game would be like comparing apples to Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

But to humor you, if Shaq had hit that shot against the Pistons in Game 5 of an NBA Finals that went 7 games, he would have been even higher. :lol

With a potential quad double in tow or without?


I am pretty sure that Shaq hit a game winner or two in the Lakers title runs...didn't get him rated higher than Horry...or Fisher come to think of it...and Fisher's wasn't against the Pistons in game 5 of an NBA finals that went 7 games...

[tlongII]

Number 33!

[Phenomanul]

Where are Kerr's 4 three pointers against Dallas in Game 6 of the 2003 WCF???


Isn't anybody surprised this didn't make the cut???

[DirkAB]

Isn't anybody surprised this didn't make the cut???

No, because as huge and as clutch of a performance as that was, it isn't all that remembered outside of NBA fanatics or Spurs and Mavs fans. Too bad that a great performance like that fell between the cracks.

[my2sons]

looks like whott has alot of time on his hands, he replies to his own posts

[Spurminator]

Sure....the Nets gave up an average of 1/4 of a point less per game that year than the Sixers in 01...But they didn't have Mutombo for the entire season, had they, it surely would have made the difference in terms of season PPG rankings...and furthermore...the Nets did not have the reigning DPOY defending their interior and to put on Duncan, like the Sixers did on Shaq.


Oh and you are the Karl Malone of the dynasty league...congrats.

Next.


You yourself have claimed the DPOY award is not legitimate. Now you're using it as the crux of your argument? In favor of Shaq?

Slow week at work? You're not fooling anyone. You lose.







And better the Karl Malone than the Jeff Malone....

[whottt]

You yourself have claimed the DPOY award is not legitimate. Now you're using it as the crux of your argument? In favor of Shaq?

Slow week at work? You're not fooling anyone. You lose.


I don't recall ever claiming the DPOY in and of itself was not legitimate...it depends on who won it.

Mutombo was a HOF caliber defensive C and that was one of his best years.


I don't care what drugs you take...pulling off a near quad double against Mutombo that year is a hell of a lot more impressive than doing it against Jason Collins any year of his career. IDGAF how good of a defensive team the Nets were.

[Phenomanul]

easy fans identify with shaq, that popularity translates to the media as "everything thats not san antonio is more popular" thus to get more people to watch or be interested shaq, jordan, magic, will always be ahead of duncan no matter if its right or not................its called ratings.


Which is why I want Duncan winning at least two more rings....

[1Parker1]

I also remember AI pretty much singlehandedly winning game 1 by himself in the 4th quarter and stunning the Staples Center faithful....



Then why didn't AI's performance in Game 1 make the list, while Shaq's in Game 2 did?