Phoenix in the NBA Finals?

[JamStone]

To non-Suns fans ...

Would that legitimize Nash's MVP award THIS YEAR even if the Suns don't go on to win the title? Would him leading the Amare-less and Kurt Thomas-less and Raja Bell-injured Suns all the way to the Finals at least make you reconsider the fact that despite his poorous defense, he's is a legitimate MVP award winner, even a legit 2-time winner?

I criticized Nash for winning it this year. But, I admit that it would likely sway my opinion on it. Not that the Suns are there yet or to dismiss Dallas or even the idea that if the Suns make it there, the possibility of them getting beat soundly by the EC team. But, honestly, the Suns getting within 2 games of the NBA Finals in itself has me thinking Nash might really have deserved it this year.

Just curious what some of you, who similarly criticized his winning the award again, think about it.

[tlongII]

It would definitely legitimize Nash as the award winner. I would still think LeBron is just as deserving though.

[JMarkJohns]

Those who hated, will continue. Those who thought, may begin to think differently.

I think the same can be said of Dirk, whom I had winning the award. See last night.

[mavsfan1000]

First bad game in the playoffs for Dirk. Nash was crap in games 2 and 3 but no one said anything. Also the suns are loaded with 3 point shooters.

[JMarkJohns]

First bad game in the playoffs for Dirk. Nash was crap in games 2 and 3 but no one said anything. Also the suns are loaded with 3 point shooters.

I was saying last night's bad game by Dirk shows how much his impact has on his team. He sucks, they get blown out. It proves his value.

[RON ARTEST]

Those who hated, will continue. Those who thought, may begin to think differently.

I think the same can be said of Dirk, whom I had winning the award. See last night.
nice win last night, but the road ends in this series. there aint no way in hell the suns are going to the finals. i want them to but it aint gonna happen.

[JMarkJohns]

nice win last night, but the road ends in this series. there aint no way in hell the suns are going to the finals. i want them to but it aint gonna happen.

You're talking to a fan, not a fanatic. I know this team is tragically flawed. I know all this and have actually had them losing not just this, but the previous series vs. the Clippers as well.

I said they lose in six this series and wouldn't be surprised if they do. However, I have nothing, just as you have nothing new to back this up. Phoenix should have lost in the first round and didn't. They should have lost in the second round and didn't. They shouldn't even be in this series, but are.

They are small, they are thin, they are tired and they are injured.

Everygame they are outmanned and overmatched and yet they win.

Absolutes don't aplly to these Suns, so it's foolish to try and aplly them.

This team has won in Dallas half the time this year and more than half last year. They can win.

[Leetonidas]

You're talking to a fan, not a fanatic. I know this team is tragically flawed. I know all this and have actually had them losing not just this, but the previous series vs. the Clippers as well.

I said they lose in six this series and wouldn't be surprised if they do. However, I have nothing, just as you have nothing new to back this up. Phoenix should have lost in the first round and didn't. They should have lost in the second round and didn't. They shouldn't even be in this series, but are.

They are small, they are thin, they are tired and they are injured.

Everygame they are outmanned and overmatched and yet they win.

Absolutes don't aplly to these Suns, so it's foolish to try and aplly them.

This team has won in Dallas half the time this year and more than half last year. They can win.

How inspiring. :)

[DubMcDub]

You're talking to a fan, not a fanatic. I know this team is tragically flawed. I know all this and have actually had them losing not just this, but the previous series vs. the Clippers as well.

I said they lose in six this series and wouldn't be surprised if they do. However, I have nothing, just as you have nothing new to back this up. Phoenix should have lost in the first round and didn't. They should have lost in the second round and didn't. They shouldn't even be in this series, but are.

They are small, they are thin, they are tired and they are injured.

Everygame they are outmanned and overmatched and yet they win.

Absolutes don't aplly to these Suns, so it's foolish to try and aplly them.

This team has won in Dallas half the time this year and more than half last year. They can win.

I really, really, really don't see how that's relevant. At all.

Unless you guys are going to re-sign Quentin Richardson and Joe Johnson and magically heal AMare, I'm pretty sure what happened last year has absolutely no bearing on anything.

Note that I'm not saying the Suns can't win in Dallas, just that citing anything that happened last year is completely ridiculous.

[JMarkJohns]

I really, really, really don't see how that's relevant. At all.

Unless you guys are going to re-sign Quentin Richardson and Joe Johnson and magically heal AMare, I'm pretty sure what happened last year has absolutely no bearing on anything.

Note that I'm not saying the Suns can't win in Dallas, just that citing anything that happened last year is completely ridiculous.

You're missing the bigger picture. You can't see how last year's Dallas team losing 4-of-5 at home to the Suns is relevant when Dirk, Terry, Harris, Stackhouse, Howard, Daniels, Van Horn, Armstrong and Dampier are still constants in this year's rotation?

True, the Suns are not the same, but this dallas team is, by and large, so it is relevant, since it shows Dallas, even under Avery Johnson, is capable of losing at home to one team pretty frequently.

It's not relevant to this Suns team, but to this Mavs team as it shows a pattern of vulnerability on their own home floor

Get it now?

It was poorly worded on my part.

However...

The Mavs lost 4-of-5 at home last year to the Suns style.
The Mavs lost 3-of-6 at home this year to the Suns style.

Clearly this Mavericks team struggles against the Suns, this year or last, home court or away.

I think showing the ongoing struggles of one team vs. a certain style is relevant. It, at the very least, shows a weakness, which was what my intent was. A Dallas weakness, not a Suns strength.

I really should have said that this Dallas team has struggled against the Phoenix system for the past two years. Whether or not you deem last year's Suns relevant doesn't really factor in now, since it's the Dallas vulnerability I'm pointing out.

I just think it shows that any game Phoenix plays in Dallas is a toss up, at best, for even the Mavericks.

[1Parker1]

If Nash takes the Suns to the NBA Finals, I will take back my statement about it being pathetic that he got MVP this season. However, regular season MVP isn't a postseason award. It's based on the first 82 games played of the season. I still think Kobe, Dirk, & Lebron could have just as easily won it based on this fact.

[MadDog73]

Nash deserved the MVP this season, because of the standing of his team.

Lebron took the Cavs to the Playoffs in the East... no big deal really. His performance against the Pistons was extraordinary, but MVP is regular season, not playoffs.

Kobe was MVP of the Lakers, but again, too far down in the standings to count.

If Nash could take the Suns to the 2 spot, why couldn't Kobe take the Lakers higher? Because Nash makes his whole team better... Kobe is just a one man team.

Dirk and Tim are always MVP candidates, but because the people around them are so good, it's hard to award. Would the Mavs be where they are without Howard? No. Spurs without Tony or Manu? No.

So, like it or not, Nash wins. He doesn't need to get to the Finals to justify it, but I would love to see him there.

[1Parker1]

If Nash could take the Suns to the 2 spot, why couldn't Kobe take the Lakers higher? Because Nash makes his whole team better... Kobe is just a one man team.

Dirk and Tim are always MVP candidates, but because the people around them are so good, it's hard to award. Would the Mavs be where they are without Howard? No. Spurs without Tony or Manu? No.

I absolutely HATE this argument that people make for Steve Nash: Nash makes his team-mates better, because of the system in which they play~!!!! No one is better than Nash at running and gunning and finding the open man. However, what the hell is so different that he's doing in Pheonix in the regular season, which he didn't do in Dallas?

Furthermore, Nash's Teammates>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe's. Dirk also deserved a lot more consideration than he did for MVP. 60 wins is 60 wins.

Anyways, like I said, Nash has been impressing me this offseason. I didn't think the SUns could make it past the Clipps, but they did. However, like I said, MVP is a regular season award, not postseason. It was decided based off of what the players did in the 82 games played prior to May.

[MadDog73]

I absolutely HATE this argument that people make for Steve Nash: Nash makes his team-mates better, because of the system in which they play~!!!! No one is better than Nash at running and gunning and finding the open man. However, what the hell is so different that he's doing in Pheonix in the regular season, which he didn't do in Dallas?


He had better players in Dallas...

And why do you think Nash's teamates are that good? A HUGE reason is Nash. Put these guys on another team, without Nash, are they all scoring double digits?

[1Parker1]

Like I said, how much of it is the kind of system which they play under?

[angel_luv]

I didn't begrudge Nash his MVP award. I was surprised he got it- since the media usually favors people like Kobe and Lebron who are good in a flashy sort of way.

I hope the Suns make the Finals- if only because it means that the Mavericks didn't.

[MadDog73]

Like I said, how much of it is the kind of system which they play under?


And how much of that system is based on Nash?

Seriously, put another PG in there, any PG, and tell me the Suns are doing as well.

Tony Parker? Jason Kidd? Jason Terry?

[RonMexico]

And how much of that system is based on Nash?

Seriously, put another PG in there, any PG, and tell me the Suns are doing as well.

Tony Parker? Jason Kidd? Jason Terry?

Exactly - Paul Westhead employed the run-n-gun style to the 1990 Denver Nuggets and they lead the league in scoring with 120 ppg. But that team only won 28 games and played even worse defense than these Suns. With that information in mind, you can see how I was cautious when D'Antoni announced 2 years ago that he was going to implement this style. The fact that Nash can use this style and get the Suns to within 2 games of the NBA Finals speaks volumes as to why he is the most valuable.

I could see only a couple of other guards running this system with effectiveness - Chris Paul (in a year or two - and he actually plays defense) or Jason Kidd (of a few years ago). Jason Terry, Tony Parker, Steve Francis, and Stephon Marbury would most likely struggle with such a system because they are shoot-first guards and don't have the natural court vision or passing prowess that Nash does. Hell, even Leandro Barbosa would (and does) have a really difficult time running this offense. But how can you fault Nash for having good shooters around him and a team with so much heart and scrappiness that they keep defying expectations? If anything, fault Bryan Colangelo for having the foresight to put this team together in the off-season. Tony Reali on Around the Horn even called out all the panelists who sit there and say "I love the Suns, but they're going to lose." He says, "If you all love them, and they keep winning, why do you and everyone else (Greg Anthony, Stephen A. Mouth, and Legler) keep picking them to lose?"

[RonMexico]

First bad game in the playoffs for Dirk. Nash was crap in games 2 and 3 but no one said anything. Also the suns are loaded with 3 point shooters.

In Game 2, Nash's line was 39 mins, 16 pts, 11 assists 6-10 FG and 2-2 3PT.

Game 3, he had 36 mins, 21 pts, 7 assists, 9-18 FG, and 3-7 3PT.

Hardly "crap" when compared to 33 mins, 11 pts, 7 rebounds, 3-13 FG and 1-1 3PT.

That's probably why "no one said anything." Maybe Dallas needs to load themselves with 3 point shooters. Or maybe you need to realize that when Barbosa is "crap" the Suns do poorly.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

If Nash got this team to the finals it would definitely validate his b2b MVPs, at least in my book.

BTW I kinda like Phoenix, so in my heart I'm rooting for them. But in my head I can't help but wonder if they make the finals (or win it all) this year, without Amare, how unstopable will they be next year? They're already obviously going to be pretty scary with a healthy Amare (assuming he recovers adequately, as everyone who follows the NBA should hope) but with the added confidence of knowing they can get it done without him... as I Spur fan I really don't want to have to go through that type of team.

[Drbio]

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/drbio/UsualSuspects.jpg
The Suns will be wondering after tonight how they got their arses beaten down so badly and with prejudice. The police accordingly will be looking for the usual suspects.

[RonMexico]

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/drbio/UsualSuspects.jpg
The Suns will be wondering after tonight how they got their arses beaten down so badly and with prejudice. The police accordingly will be looking for the usual suspects.

Wow. Gay.

[JMarkJohns]

I didn't realize the Maverick starters were so short! And here I thought the Suns were height-challenged?!