The Spurs were betrayed by one of their own

[Walton Buys Off Me]

So here we are- more than week removed from what timvp coined as the second worst playoff defeat in San Antonio Spur history. Save the gaseous emissions that continue to emanate from TPark’s red eye, most of the smoke has cleared and dust has settled here at Spurstalk. I won’t lie though- the last week has been tough. The Mavericks, their vertically challenged, bible-belt coach, their Fire Island gay, outspoken owner and their Haselhoff worshipping superstar got to me. Hats off to them. They had a seasoned veteran fan of sixteen years ripping his hair out, bouncing around the furniture looking like Brad Pitt from Twelve Monkeys. I can’t help but continue to replay those final 21 seconds of game 7 in my head. Manu Ginobili, next to Kobe Bryant the most clutch performer in the world, ball in hand, series lying in the balance, Robert Horry drifting out on the perimeter….ah what could have been…what could have been- a phrase uttered more times by the sports fan than “pass me another beer hon.” Anyways in the last week, I’ve had time to reflect and look back on the season, most importantly the fateful seven games with our interstate rivals and I think that it would be therapeutic for me to get some stuff off my chest. You see Mavs fans, I hate to discredit what you did, because believe me, hearing that pompous worm Phil Jackson tell us our first ever championship should have come with an asterix embedded on it made my blood boil- but Mavs fans, I’m sorry, you didn’t beat the Spurs- the Spurs were betrayed by their leader, their coach, Gregg Popovich and coincidentally I guess you can say that we beat ourselves.

They say the first paragraph of any article or short story should grab the reader’s attention and keep them wanting more. Believe me, that closing sentence was not at attempt at either. It was the truth and Spurs’ fans- you know it. The San Antonio Spurs won 63 games this season- a franchise best. Nearly every single one of those victories, including two over Dallas and three over the Phoenix Suns featured a line-up consisting of two near seven foot pillars occupying the paint. In fact, if you look at last year’s Western Conference Finals, The Spurs started Nazr Mohammed in all five games and guess what? They won four of them, advancing to the Finals. I dare say that last year’s Suns were faster, more athletic, more skilled and downright superior in almost every facet of the game to this years’ version of the Dallas Mavericks. Still, with me? How’s this- Nazr Mohammed had a season high of 30 points and 16 rebounds in a game this season against the Suns. Guess what he did on March 2nd against Dallas-also a Spurs victory by the way? 10 points and 5 rebounds (3 offensive) in 30 minutes? Better than what Diop and Dampier were giving Avery Johnson in their 20-25/game. In fact in the two regular season games that Mohammed played 30+ minutes, the Spurs beat Dallas. In the two he played less than 20, they lost. Did Gregg Popovich forget this? My point is- when in life, in business or in sports does it make sense to abandon what made you successful? Gregg Popovich simply got played- he saw his team get beat by 20 points in game 2 and then for the remainder of the series, he coached as if he were the underdog, amazed that his team was in the mere presence of this unstoppable Dallas Mavericks juggernaut and coached to survive, not to win. Why? When does a favourite throw away what got him to the dance and play the underdog’s game? Did the New England Patriots and Tom Brady play the “I can pass for more yardage than you” with Peyton Manning and the Colts? Never- they showed the world what Manning is and was and will always be- a bridesmaid and never a bride. Bill Belichick doesn’t allow inferior competition to tell him how a game is going to be played.

Gregg Popovich apparently has a military background- so how’s about a military alliteration? Let’s say you’re at war (a basketball game) and the object of the war is to capture the other’s King (the NBA title). The Spurs, led to Popovich had a system that had won them a record 63 battles all year- best in their territory (Conference). Their competition, the Mavericks, were a quicker, more athletic team but lacked anyone that could really challenge the Spurs main gun (Tim Duncan) in the trenches (the paint). The Spurs, being a slower, yet more experienced team, used a system whereby the younger Maverick may in fact get around his first combatant (defender) but were guaranteed to be met (and slowed down) by either one of two tall warriors in the trenches (Duncan, Mohammed, hell even Rasho). But guess what? Like any General (no not you Avery) that had fought too much without resting his mind, the Spurs leader miscalculated and played DIRECTLY into the hands of Dallas. Instead of using his highly successful strategy, Popovich went with one whereby the Spurs soldiers were asked to battle the younger, faster Mavericks one on one and the option of funnelling into the bigs was no longer there- he took one of two completely out of the equation. So here you have the Mavericks breezing by the likes of Brent Barry and Michael Finley and guess what? Who’s there to shoulder the ENTIRE defensive burden and guard that aforementioned King? Popovich’s premier soldier- the incomparable Tim Duncan. Weird how Duncan picked up more fouls in these seven games than he did practically all season? Good one Pop- real bright.

Believe it or not, the point of this article is not to bash Gregg Popovich. The guy is a tremendous coach, a great teacher, has the respect of just about every mind associated with the game of basketball but the reality is he was duped in this series. Our entire coaching staff- not just him, was duped. We played Maverick basketball for the final five games of this series and guess what? We lost. We lost a chance, possibly our last to finally repeat as NBA champions. With the Heat about to eliminate the Pistons and the Suns advancing to the Western Conference Finals- that makes me mad.

I think that in every walk of life, when a passionate, intelligent human being entrenches him or herself in their work, ultimately their work gets the better of them and a step back- not a step away is the best course of action. In basketball- look no further than Phil Jackson and Pat Riley as perfect examples of those who took a step back from the game of basketball, recharged their batteries and enjoyed success upon their returns. Gregg Popovich is a basketball genius- he’s worn every hat there is to wear for this franchise and we as fans owe him a tremendous debt of gratitude for that but I think this series showed that Popovich might have- it’s only my opinion- but he might have lost sight of the forest through the tress.

Ironically, with all the anguish associated with this loss and the prospects as to what could have been, I don’t believe there has been a moment where I’ve been more proud of my team. We competed right to the end, the stars played like stars- Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili were an absolute JOY to watch from simply a basketball fan’s point of view in this series but you know what? So was Dirk Nowitzki. Say what you want about the guy but he arrived to the penthouse known as ‘big time’ in this series and I’m glad for him. There’s no arrogance with Dirk, just intense competitiveness and I love that in an athlete.

PJ Carlesimo still doesn’t have a head coaching job…how about a year to showcase his talents?

Until next year,
Walton Buys Off Me

[pussyface]

...funny screenname

[Melmart1]

...funny screenname


...terrible analysis

[rayray2k8]

...funny screenname
:worthy:
:rolleyes

[raspsa]

Wow, quite a rant.. at least he got it off his chest.. I don't agree with him at all

[T Park]

PJ Carlesimo still doesn’t have a head coaching job…how about a year to showcase his talents?



you take pop away and put him as the head coach,
the season is over before it begins.

[Dre_7]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=746145&postcount=127

[pussyface]

what message are those little animated bits supposed to convey rayray?

[exstatic]

It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Wm. Shakespeare

[T Park]

lol@dre7

[Leetonidas]

kthxbai.

[timvp]

Gregg Popovich apparently has a military background- so how’s about a military alliteration?

Alright.

Pop probably pondered putting post players positioned perfectly, however Pop predetermined propensity for plentiful points and poor positional pairings.

:smokin

[milkyway21]

oh no!

this reminds me of games 3 & 7 again:cry

[SequSpur]

Pop fixed the Special Olympics.

[samikeyp]

Actually AJ did what Pop taught him to do....win in the post-season.

[Dre_7]

The Spurs lose in 5, maybe 6, if they dont go small.

[romsho]

You will get bashed Walton, but that was a good post. Everyone loves to point to the fact that the Spurs hung with Dallas for seven tough games.True, but it was a chore, and you, like me, think they did it the hard way against a roster which was basically the same as the one they played four times in the regular season. Pop says it was the matchup with Dirk, so why have we never seen this reaction in the past? After game 2, Pop never even tried to establish an upperhand on the way the series was going to play out. No zones, no bigs on Nowitzki, nothing. Had he tried and failed, I think it would have been easier to accept. The Spurs lost the series because they lost their defensive personality. Hence the second guessing of Popovich.

[1Parker1]

Actually, I'm confused about one point. I've heard this said many times since the loss that Nazr played 30+ minutes in the two games against the Mavs which the Spurs won. However, didn't Devin Harris miss those games? Also, Avery didn't have the starting 5 out that he did in this series in those regular season games, or did he?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

However, didn't Devin Harris miss those games? Also, Avery didn't have the starting 5 out that he did in this series in those regular season games, or did he?

So what? Devin and Terry had a fucking layup drill going on all series with Horry and Bowen playing "power forward".

The bottom line is Pop never even tried playing Rasho or Nazr to see what would happen.

Pretty fucking ironic that Avery has realized already in his series that he can't play small against Phoenix and stuck Diop in there for 30 minutes a night to defend the paint.

Coincidentally, we rolled Phoenix last year with Tim and Nazr in the post, and that Suns squad > this year's Mavs squad as far as small ball goes.

Pop out-thought himself this year. Hopefully he'll learn from it, but I doubt it.

[MadDog73]

Alright.

Pop probably pondered putting post players positioned perfectly, however Pop predetermined propensity for plentiful points and poor positional pairings.

:smokin

:lol

Awesome Alliteration (as always)!

[Jimcs50]

:tu


I think Pop wanted AJ to win the series somewhere in his subconcious, or he wanted to beat AJ at his own game....a pissing contest, if you will.

The Spurs handed Dallas a golden opportunity to win an otherwise unwinable series, and they took advantage.

[CharlieMac]

:tu


I think Pop wanted AJ to win the series somewhere in his subconcious, or he wanted to beat AJ at his own game....a pissing contest, if you will.



Word.

[1Parker1]

So what? Devin and Terry had a fucking layup drill going on all series with Horry and Bowen playing "power forward".

The bottom line is Pop never even tried playing Rasho or Nazr to see what would happen

Simmer down, I'm not trying to start an argument here. While I definitely agree with you in that Pop should have at least tried to play Rasho and Nazr more, how can people say that it would have been a guaranteed difference maker in the series based on the two games we won and in which Nazr played more minutes, when Avery used a different lineup in those games? I was just pointing out that I don't think that's necessarily a good comparison to make.

Alas, you're right, Pop did end up shooting himself in the foot with this. We'll never know if we could have won that series playing traditional Spurs-style basketball since Pop never really tried it for a long stretch of time. I'd like to believe we would have won that series if Pop had. :depressed

[1Parker1]

It's hard to believe that with Tim, Manu, Tony, and Finley playing the best offensive ball of the season, Spurs still could have lost that series. It did come down to defense. However, our bench is also to blame for not showing up.

[Parker 09]

Coincidentally, we rolled Phoenix last year with Tim and Nazr in the post, and that Suns squad > this year's Mavs squad as far as small ball goes.

Pop out-thought himself this year. Hopefully he'll learn from it, but I doubt it.
I think that was becuase stoudemire was there, if stoudemire was nowitzki we probably would have gone small against Phoenix to, but it is alot easier to guard somebady anchored to the basket rather than chase around a shooter.
If nowitzki wasn't a jumpshooter we would have gone big against them and we probably would of beaten them, but that is what nowitzki creates match up problems.
So we start Nazr and you have him chasing dirk?? Dirk is too quick.
Same deal with duncan.
We stick bowen on him and howard goes nuts, Dallas had to many match up problems and small ball made the series go as long as it did

[da_suns_fan__]

Gregg Popovich apparently has a military background- so how’s about a military alliteration? Let’s say you’re at war (a basketball game) and the object of the war is to capture the other’s King (the NBA title). The Spurs, led to Popovich had a system that had won them a record 63 battles all year- best in their territory (Conference). Their competition, the Mavericks, were a quicker, more athletic team but lacked anyone that could really challenge the Spurs main gun (Tim Duncan) in the trenches (the paint). The Spurs, being a slower, yet more experienced team, used a system whereby the younger Maverick may in fact get around his first combatant (defender) but were guaranteed to be met (and slowed down) by either one of two tall warriors in the trenches (Duncan, Mohammed, hell even Rasho). But guess what? Like any General (no not you Avery) that had fought too much without resting his mind, the Spurs leader miscalculated and played DIRECTLY into the hands of Dallas. Instead of using his highly successful strategy, Popovich went with one whereby the Spurs soldiers were asked to battle the younger, faster Mavericks one on one and the option of funnelling into the bigs was no longer there- he took one of two completely out of the equation. So here you have the Mavericks breezing by the likes of Brent Barry and Michael Finley and guess what? Who’s there to shoulder the ENTIRE defensive burden and guard that aforementioned King? Popovich’s premier soldier- the incomparable Tim Duncan. Weird how Duncan picked up more fouls in these seven games than he did practically all season? Good one Pop- real bright.

Thats not an alliteration, bozo. :lol Its an analogy.

San Antonio Spurs sadly sluggish Saturday.

That's an alliteration

[angel_luv]

Alright.

Pop probably pondered putting post players positioned perfectly, however Pop predetermined propensity for plentiful points and poor positional pairings.

:smokin

Say what! LOL!

[angel_luv]

I think that with fouls being called the way they were would have posed serious issues for our Centers.

Nazr picks up fouls quickly under normal calling circumstances.

Also, was it not the Dallas series where Nazr played for a minute and there was a six- nine point swing in Dallas' favor?

[pas2704]

I know I'm new here but we can't change what has happened. Let's just look forward to coming back nexr season with a vengeance from hell and kick tail in the NBA and take back not just our title but get some payback too. SPURS IN 2007 YEAR OF PAYBACK :elephant

[Jimcs50]

I know I'm new here but we can't change what has happened.


Oh the naivete of the newbies.

:lol

We always commiserate about failures and dwell on misery for at least 3 months in here every year. By August, when the new champion is almost forgotten, we forget about the previous year and start looking forward to a better ending the next year.

[MadDog73]

Oh the naivette of the newbies.

:lol

We always commiserate about failures and dwell on misery for at least 3 months in here every year. By August, when the new champion is almost forgotten, we forget about the previous year and start looking forward to a better ending the next year.

If only that was actually true...

I doubt anyone here has "forgotten" about 2001 (damn Lakers), 2002 (DAMN Lakers) or 2004 (0.4 fucking Lakers).

[Jimcs50]

If only that was actually true...

I doubt anyone here has "forgotten" about 2001 (damn Lakers), 2002 (DAMN Lakers) or 2004 (0.4 fucking Lakers).


not forgotten, but I no longer lose sleep about it.

[MadDog73]

not forgotten, but I no longer lose sleep about it.


Are you saying you're losing sleep over the loss to the Mavs still?

[Taking it to the Hole]

It doesn't matter what style we should have played or what strategy we should have used, it is all meaningless unless you execute. The Spurs did not have the defensive intensity needed to win that series and they got outrebounded. Your not going to win many games unless you do both and all the games the Spurs won by were the slimmest of margins. I think it had more to do with the attitude the Spurs had in this series. I truly think they underestimated Dallas's athleticism. I really hope Dallas doesn't win the championship because we would have been their biggest conquest rather than whomever they play in the finals.

[Jules]

Well written Walton… but, strictly from a creative stance.

Although I don't agree with you, I was hoping Pop would try starting Nazr or Rasho. My main reason for wanting this was just to mix it up; to throw a wrench in AJ's plan.

I certainly don't think Pop needs to take a step back or time off like the Zen Master did. And I must say that I am so proud of this team and organization! We had a great season with some impressive accomplishments. Sure, it hurt to see Tim play in such great form to no avail, but the passion and drive to come back from a 1-3 deficit was indescribable.

I say, Go Spurs Go... 2007!

[DarrinS]

Game plans from regular season games don't always translate to the playoffs. I can hear the cliche' now, "dance with the one that brought you there".


I saw Nazr play in game 2 and I wasn't very impressed with his agressiveness. Keep in mind, this isn't Ben Wallace we're talking about. If Nazr had come in and played with the intensity he played with last year, I think he would have had more minutes in that series. Frankenstein, a.k.a. Rasho, on the other hand, is just to damn slow to keep up with the Mavs. Remember, this Mavs team doesn't have Sean Bradley any more.

Also, keep in mind that a "big" would not have done jack squat against a team shooting perimeter jumpers at 80% !!!!!!

Whether you like what Pop did, or not, the Spurs were still 20 some-odd seconds away from advancing to the WCF. If so, this thread would be titled "Pop is a basketball genius".


NEXT

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

While I definitely agree with you in that Pop should have at least tried to play Rasho and Nazr more, how can people say that it would have been a guaranteed difference maker in the series based on the two games we won and in which Nazr played more minutes, when Avery used a different lineup in those games? I was just pointing out that I don't think that's necessarily a good comparison to make.

I don't think it's fair to say for certain that would have made a difference, just that we, and more importantly the team and those players, deserved to have a chance to find out.


So we start Nazr and you have him chasing dirk?? Dirk is too quick.
Same deal with duncan.

Um, were you paying attention last year against Phoenix? We didn't chase Amare anywhere. We stepped aside, let him dunk the ball without fouling him for a three point play, let him average 40 PPG for the series, and were moving on to the next one after game 6.

Dirk getting 30 or 35 or even if we would have let him get 40 isn't what did the Spurs in. It was Dallas ripping off 60+ PPG in the fucking paint.

[Jimcs50]

Are you saying you're losing sleep over the loss to the Mavs still?

but of course....you are not????

2 percenter!!!

[angel_luv]

but of course....you are not????

2 percenter!!!


I'm not losing sleep.

I use every night to dream up next season's revenge. :angel

[MadDog73]

but of course....you are not????

2 percenter!!!

I'm losing sleep because my baby is sick...

but if not for that, I'm sure the Spurs would be the reason.

Actually, it does piss me off. It's hard to watch the other games...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Also, was it not the Dallas series where Nazr played for a minute and there was a six- nine point swing in Dallas' favor?


TD and Manu were on the floor too, I guess they suck too.



I saw Nazr play in game 2 and I wasn't very impressed with his agressiveness. Keep in mind, this isn't Ben Wallace we're talking about. If Nazr had come in and played with the intensity he played with last year,

No one on this team played with any aggressiveness in that game. Pop tried every Spur, and none of them wanted to be there that night. Singling out Nazr for not stepping up when no one, from the players to the coaching staff, bothered to show up, is a pretty weak argument to use to say a guy shouldn't have gotten more than 27 minutes of run in an entire series when your opponent was lighting up the scoreboard from the paint.

[Jimcs50]

TD and Manu were on the floor too, I guess they suck too.



No one on this team played with any aggressiveness in that game. Pop tried every Spur, and none of them wanted to be there that night. Singling out Nazr for not stepping up when no one, from the players to the coaching staff, bothered to show up, is a pretty weak argument to use to say a guy shouldn't have gotten more than 27 minutes of run in an entire series when your opponent was lighting up the scoreboard from the paint.


Pop is to blame..no ifs ands or buts about it.

I think he was abducted by aliens or Mark Cuban dug up some dirt on him and blackmailed him......other than that I can see no sane reason to play the lineup they played after seeing that Dallas was the better team with that lineup 55% of the time.

[angel_luv]

Also, was it not the Dallas series where Nazr played for a minute and there was a six- nine point swing in Dallas' favor?


TD and Manu were on the floor too, I guess they suck too.


The stats for that game just do not do justice to how disruptive Nazr was.

That said, I was not singling Nazr out.
I was just amused that given his performance, people think we should have looked to him to save game 3.

Giving Nazr 25 minutes in that situation, barring a major miracle, would have been suicide.

I realize we still lost the game but at least we had a chance at the end.

[MadDog73]

Pop is to blame..no ifs ands or buts about it.

I think he was abducted by aliens or Mark Cuban dug up some dirt on him and blackmailed him......other than that I can see no sane reason to play the lineup they played after seeing that Dallas was the better team with that lineup 55% of the time.

50.1% of the time...

BTW, I think with Rasho and Nazr on the floor, Mavs would be better 99.9% of the time.

Bottom line, Spurs had a chance to win every game, except the one where Nazr played the most minutes.

Coincidence? I think not...

[angel_luv]

Nazr is a good rebounder and has his nights as a scorer as well.

But the problem is that his butter fingers combined with the way he disrupts our defensive ( and sometimes offensive) flow, productivity wise Nazr pretty much cancels himself out.

[Jimcs50]

Nazr is a good rebounder and has his nights as a scorer as well.

But the problem is that his butter fingers combined with the way he disrupts our defensive ( and sometimes offensive) flow, productivity wise Nazr pretty much cancels himself out.


Yeah, he forgot how to play basketball in one month.


:rolleyes

[vanvannen]

Good post by Walton. It was stated over and over, but I'll do it one more time: This series against the Mavs were just the same as last year's against the Suns. Dirk is long and athletic as is Amare. The difference is that we let everyone get theirs, while last year we simply erased the rest of the team from the floor and let Amare go nuts. That mistake is on Pop, and Pop only. When he lost in the first round he said when a team losses the coach is supposed to make adjustments, and put Ginobili on the bench. Then he went to 7 games using small ball, although it was pretty obvious he was getting his ass wiped, and the only reason for staying in the series was the unbielievable will to win that Timmy and Manu always show. I'm not saying fire Pop, but fucking accept that this team should have taken this series differently.

[MadDog73]

Good post by Walton. It was stated over and over, but I'll do it one more time: This series against the Mavs were just the same as last year's against the Suns. Dirk is long and athletic as is Amare. The difference is that we let everyone get theirs, while last year we simply erased the rest of the team from the floor and let Amare go nuts. That mistake is on Pop, and Pop only. When he lost in the first round he said when a team losses the coach is supposed to make adjustments, and put Ginobili on the bench. Then he went to 7 games using small ball, although it was pretty obvious he was getting his ass wiped, and the only reason for staying in the series was the unbielievable will to win that Timmy and Manu always show. I'm not saying fire Pop, but fucking accept that this team should have taken this series differently.


Interesting take. Manu & Tim were winning despite Pop, huh?

Then how come those two blew the last plays in all the close losses we had?

Look, I'm not blaming Manu and Tim for losing, but I think it's silly to say "This is the one and only reason we lost." There were many factors, and yes, coaching was one factor.

But, bottom line, we went to 7 games against a very good team, and to blame Pop alone seems a little like blaming Manu for costing us game 7.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nazr is a good rebounder and has his nights as a scorer as well.

But the problem is that his butter fingers combined with the way he disrupts our defensive ( and sometimes offensive) flow, productivity wise Nazr pretty much cancels himself out.

Right, the same guy who anchored the paint for us from the All-Star break on as we made our run up to best record in the West and 63 wins, and started every game last year on our way to a title, somehow became a huge 'disruption' somewhere between the end of the regular season and the Mavs series. :rolleyes

[rascal]

But, bottom line, we went to 7 games against a very good team, and to blame Pop alone seems a little like blaming Manu for costing us game 7.

Pop messed up by letting Manu be the primary ball handler for the final play in game 7 and by not having Parker in the game. manu got off a wild shot that wasn't even close.

Parker should have had the ball on the last play and try to beat his man with his quickness to the basket (the spurs only needed a score) and if he couldn't he could have had three other options in Duncan inside or Horry and manu outside. If parker gets an inside step to the basket the spurs have a great shot to win it because help would have switched on to parker and Parker could have passed it off to Duncan for an easy score. The play should have been Parker beat your man to the basket and let things go form there not let Manu try to create a shot with the defense already set up.

Pop is to blame for a poor call. Pop took out a good option with Parker on the bench and went with the more turnover prone player.

[strangeweather]

Right, the same guy who anchored the paint for us from the All-Star break on as we made our run up to best record in the West and 63 wins, and started every game last year on our way to a title, somehow became a huge 'disruption' somewhere between the end of the regular season and the Mavs series. :rolleyes
After all, no one had seen any sign that Nazr was having a shaky year this year.

Except, you know, right from the start.

[SpurYank]

Nice post, Walton ...etc. but my impression, after many years of watching NBA games and coaching decisions, alterations, changes, etc, is that Pop was brilliant in going small ball when he did. The best judge of what happened to our Spurs was Timmy when he said the ball bounced that way instead of this way, Manu's aggressiveness got the Mavs to tie instead of still being a point behind (Pop WARNED the team to not foul). With our Spurs down 3 games to one, we came back and could have gone ALL THE WAY BACK, but as Timmy said, the ball bounced low when he got the rebound on Manu's miss or else he would have given that rim the biggest slam he has made this year. None of this had anything to do with Pop. He didn't shoot a single basket, get a single rebound, or anything. It's the breaks. Accept it.

[EVAY]

Walton, this was a good post, and I admire you for having the guts to say it.
Pop is Pop, and he is a great coach, and I know that you are not suggesting that he be replaced. People who suggest that is what you are saying are simply using a failed "reductio ad absurdam" fallacious argument ( i.e., if you criticize at all, you must take the position that he is terrible and needs to be replaced, which is the absurdly illogical progression that your argument does NOT reduce to). Pop's name is not "pope", and he is not infallible. He is great at most things, but this time he got outcoached, purely and simply.

[T Park]

that you are not suggesting that he be replaced

hes suggesting PJ coach for a year.

Thats not "replacing" someone? Whats the PC word for that chief?


He is great at most things, but this time he got outcoached, purely and simply.

If you mean that he didn't have the people to match up with, yeah thats right.

[T Park]

TD and Manu were on the floor too, I guess they suck too.

Try watching the game Mr Knowitall.

Duncan got into foul trouble at that time, Mohammed replaced him.

But yeah, keep justifying your losing arguement.

[cherylsteele]

Try watching the game Mr Knowitall.

Duncan got into foul trouble at that time, Mohammed replaced him.

But yeah, keep justifying your losing arguement.
You keep saying it is a losing argument but scoreboard says otherwise.

We lost the series 4-3....yup small ball worked.

At least give Rasho more time if not Nazr.

[strangeweather]

You keep saying it is a losing argument but scoreboard says otherwise.
That's right -- I forgot about the series we won against Dallas this year by playing Rasho and Nazr. :rolleyes

The loss no more proves that playing a no talent center would have won than it proves that starting Beno would have won it for us.


At least give Rasho more time if not Nazr.
Rasho is way too slow to handle quick teams -- he didn't play in last year's playoffs either. If Pop didn't know how to coach last year, he did surprising well anyway.

[Nikos]

Pop messed up by letting Manu be the primary ball handler for the final play in game 7 and by not having Parker in the game. manu got off a wild shot that wasn't even close.

Parker should have had the ball on the last play and try to beat his man with his quickness to the basket (the spurs only needed a score) and if he couldn't he could have had three other options in Duncan inside or Horry and manu outside. If parker gets an inside step to the basket the spurs have a great shot to win it because help would have switched on to parker and Parker could have passed it off to Duncan for an easy score. The play should have been Parker beat your man to the basket and let things go form there not let Manu try to create a shot with the defense already set up.

Pop is to blame for a poor call. Pop took out a good option with Parker on the bench and went with the more turnover prone player.

While I might not argue with going with Parker on on a last possesion play, Manu has proven to be the superior crunch time force. If you gather the stats from the past two years Ginobili has been superior in the clutch as a scorer AND passer. Both in the regular season and both playoffs. He is more likely to score, get an assist, or get fouled and make the FT's. If Parker gets fouled, it is less likely he makes both. And Parker actually tends to be more turnover prone come playoff time. The stats bear it out.

The reason I might not goto Manu on a last second play is because he can't create his own jumper off the dribble. But other than that he is a good crunch time option. He actually is the best playmaker when the game gets tight.

If Parker was hot I would go with Parker for a last play, but if there is 5 minutes left to go in the game and the team is in a close game, I would chose Manu to be the playmaker, or goto Duncan if the team has the lead.

Parker for whatever reason wasn't himself in the Dallas series. Maybe he was injured as Kori stated. But statistically he wasn't as good as he could have been. He was superior against the Kings for sure.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

After all, no one had seen any sign that Nazr was having a shaky year this year.

Except, you know, right from the start.

Right, it's not like after we replaced Rasho in the starting lineup with Nazr at the All-Star break we went on a tear and ended up the season 25-6 and win the best regular season record in the West or anything...

[z0sa]

I agree very much with walton's post. Its all checks and balances - while we would have a decisive quickness disadvantage with two bigs in the paint, wouldn't you rather them shoot jumpshots than drive to the rim every single time? The jumpshots fell in game 2, thats not to say they would fall in every other game of the series. If we could have adjusted with the twin towers, I think spurs win in 6.

[maddnezz]

Game plans from regular season games don't always translate to the playoffs. I can hear the cliche' now, "dance with the one that brought you there".


I saw Nazr play in game 2 and I wasn't very impressed with his agressiveness. Keep in mind, this isn't Ben Wallace we're talking about. If Nazr had come in and played with the intensity he played with last year, I think he would have had more minutes in that series. Frankenstein, a.k.a. Rasho, on the other hand, is just to damn slow to keep up with the Mavs. Remember, this Mavs team doesn't have Sean Bradley any more.

Also, keep in mind that a "big" would not have done jack squat against a team shooting perimeter jumpers at 80% !!!!!!

Whether you like what Pop did, or not, the Spurs were still 20 some-odd seconds away from advancing to the WCF. If so, this thread would be titled "Pop is a basketball genius".


NEXT
DIOP and Dampier are n ot that fast be honest dude. They have never and I mean never beat our centers up the floor!

[MadDog73]

The argument that Rasho and Nazr would have won the series, because without them we lost, is flawed.

We could have lost in 5 if Nazr and Rasho played significant minutes... and that wouldn't be an improvement, would it?

[leemajors]

DIOP and Dampier are n ot that fast be honest dude. They have never and I mean never beat our centers up the floor!

come on, putting nazr or rasho on diop/dampier leaves duncan guarding dirk or howard. neither is our best option. if duncan is guarding the center he can help out more defensively.

[Fabbs]

Walton, this was a good post, and I admire you for having the guts to say it.
Pop is Pop, and he is a great coach, and I know that you are not suggesting that he be replaced. People who suggest that is what you are saying are simply using a failed "reductio ad absurdam" fallacious argument ( i.e., if you criticize at all, you must take the position that he is terrible and needs to be replaced, which is the absurdly illogical progression that your argument does NOT reduce to). Pop's name is not "pope", and he is not infallible. He is great at most things, but this time he got outcoached, purely and simply.
:clap

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Wow, quite a rant.. at least he got it off his chest.. I don't agree with him at all



yeah :rolleyes



I'm sure a squad with Tim Duncan ISN'T going to contend for the title

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But yeah, keep justifying your losing arguement.

Scoreboard, carney.

[Fabbs]

Another move I put squarely at the feet of Pop, is playing Tony P with a big lead in Game 6. Help me out with the exact timeframe, mid 3rd qtr or so but the game was well in the Spurs hand. Spurs were up by 20. Artest was injured himself, had that look in his eye like "I'm off my meds and I'm looking to slam someone." It was obvious as hell. Either get Tony out of the game, or tell him to either lighten up on the drives or completely watch out for Artest. I'm guessing Pop did neither. Well I know he did not take him out of the game, and I doubt he told him to guard against an Artest attack. More likely some macho bullcrap about keep driving it Tony. BAM, Artest body slams Tony hard on a drive.

To me Parker was never the same. Reaggrivated injury, less effective vs Mavs. Brilliant coaching.

Don't bother posting some bullshit about "Oh so i want Tony out of the lineup forever." I said no such thing. Save your weak twists. Game 6 and Kings series was well in hand, Artest looked like a mad dog. Get Tony out or for sure tell him to guard against the drive.

[MadDog73]

To me Parker was never the same. Reaggrivated injury, less effective vs Mavs. Brilliant coaching.



And if we lost, I'm sure you'd be saying "Pop pulled Tony out when we had that lead, and we never got back our composure. It's all Pop's fault we lost."

[Fabbs]

And if we lost, I'm sure you'd be saying "Pop pulled Tony out when we had that lead, and we never got back our composure. It's all Pop's fault we lost."
10/10 on the weak scale.

[MadDog73]

10/10 on the weak scale.


Whatever. According to you, everytime we have a lead we need to pull our starters so they won't get hurt. :rolleyes