Free Agent: Speedy Claxton

[SPARKY]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_speedy_claxton.jpghttp://www.nba.com/hornets/images/hornets_logo.gif

Speedy Claxton | 5
Position: G
Born: May 8, 1978
Height: 5-11 / 1,80
Weight: 170 lbs. / 77,1 kg.
College : Hofstra

Info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/speedy_claxton/index.html)

Athletic scorer and playmaker at the 1. Calm under pressure. Durability a question. Spurs won a championship with him backing up TP. How about another?

[DuncanInYourFace]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_speedy_claxton.jpghttp://www.nba.com/hornets/images/hornets_logo.gif

Speedy Claxton | 5
Position: G
Born: May 8, 1978
Height: 5-11 / 1,80
Weight: 170 lbs. / 77,1 kg.
College : Hofstra

Info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/speedy_claxton/index.html)

Athletic scorer and playmaker at the 1. Calm under pressure. Durability a question. Spurs won a championship with him backing up TP. How about another?

Sign him up

[Bruno]

Too expensive.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Please come back. I beg you.

I think we might have won this series if we had him. When TP was doing his usual gag job, Van Exel and Udrih decided to join him. If he we had a backup PG who could step in like Speedy has for us in teh past...we'd be golden.



I dont know if we can afford him, but I say bring this team back as it is and add Speedy. :smokin

[SPARKY]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43122

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Also

It's funny how him and Derek Anderson left expecting more money and more minutes and ended up with there dick in there hands. Lmao. Sorry, had to throw that in.

[sprrs]

Actually we offered him around the same amount of money that Golden State did, he just wanted a starting spot. Which was pointless because they signed Derek Fisher like a month later and moved Speedy back to the bench. :rolleyes

Edit: But yes I would love to have Speedy back, Tony was doing a great job for us but the last few games nothing was falling for him and he still refused to stop shooting. Having Speedy in those situations would have been great.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

:shootme

Parker had a wonderful playoffs. We lost because of one shot and a few sketchy calls. End of story.

:rolleyes


Not in the Mavs series he didn't.

And for all Manu has done for this team I can forgive his foul. I don't know if Eva has a shlong or what, but Tony Parker is getting awfully good at his gag jobs.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Actually we offered him around the same amount of money that Golden State did, he just wanted a starting spot. Which was pointless because they signed Derek Fisher like a month later and moved Speedy back to the bench. :rolleyes

Ya, that's why I said "and more minutes". Speedy really should've stayed.

He got screwed there, then got screwed playing behind Chris Paul in New Orleans. Come home, Speedy!

[DubMcDub]

:shootme

Parker had a wonderful playoffs. We lost because of one shot and a few sketchy calls. End of story.

Or, you lost because your MVP bricked 6 shots in overtime of a Game 7 at your own arena.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

:rolleyes


Not in the Mavs series he didn't.

And for all Manu has done for this team I can forgive his foul. I don't know if Eva has a shlong or what, but Tony Parker is getting awfully good at his gag jobs.
I think Parker's been consistent. AT DISAPPEARING This is the 4th post season he's doen this. I forgive Manu for the foul too because his three was the reason for the comeback. We should have never been down twenty in the first place as a team.

Next year Manu should be the 2nd option/alternate 1st option. Pop made a mistake in pushing Tony with the role when his game is too one-dimensional still without a solid backup like Speedy saving his ass(We missed him in 04). His Jumpshots sucked in the Mavs series. The Mavs always capitalized on his misses.

[ploto]

It's funny how him and Derek Anderson left expecting more money and more minutes and ended up with there dick in there hands. Lmao. Sorry, had to throw that in.
Yeah- that's why Derek is on his way to the NBA finals this season. Sorry, just had to throw that in there.

[ploto]

Or, you lost because your MVP bricked 6 shots in overtime of a Game 7 at your own arena.
You mean the one who spent two hours on a table getting IV fluid after the game? At least get your info right.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I think Parker's been consistent. AT DISAPPEARING This is the 4th post season he's doen this. I forgive Manu for the foul too because his three was the reason for the comeback. We should have never been down twenty in the first place as a team.

Next year Manu should be the 2nd option/alternate 1st option. Pop made a mistake in pushing Tony with the role when his game is too one-dimensional still without a solid backup like Speedy saving his ass(We missed him in 04). His Jumpshots sucked in the Mavs series. The Mavs always capitalized on his misses.

Tony Parker reminds me of Cliff Robinson with the Blazers.

Great in the regular season. Chokes in the postseason. I hope that tag doesn't stay with TP his whole career though. God, please.




I don't think Pop wanted Tony to the be #2 option. He just sort of lucked into it when Manu went down and he had to step up. Why can't he step up like that in the playoffs goddamit. =(

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Yeah- that's why Derek is on his way to the NBA finals this season. Sorry, just had to throw that in there.

Ya, he's a real key for the Miami Heat.

[DuncanInYourFace]

You mean the one who spent two hours on a table getting IV fluid after the game? At least get your info right.


Yea it's that the same one where he scored 41 points and fouled 2 Dallas players out of the game?

Yea Duncan sure is a fuckup, we should probably put him on the trading block.

I will hand it to Dirk though, he is a MONSTER at the FT line. Utter domination.

[cherylsteele]

:rolleyes


Not in the Mavs series he didn't.

.
I call BS on your opinion.....TP's worst game in that series was game 6 with 8 points....other than that he had games of
15 pts
33 pts
24 pts
19 pts
15 pts
27 pts

not in any particular order....that doesn't sound like he choked at all except for one game....in fact he was a HUGE part of the Spurs' comeback.

I am not saying Speedy would not have helped.....but you can't blame TP for the series loss. You can blame the bench...except for Finley....and you can blame Pop...but TP doesn't deserve to be blamed.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I call BS on your opinion.....TP's worst game in that series was game 6 with 8 points....other than that he had games of
15 pts
33 pts
24 pts
19 pts
15 pts
27 pts

not in any particular order....that doesn't sound like he choked at all except for one game....in fact he was a HUGE part of the Spurs' comeback.

I am not saying Speedy would not have helped.....but you can't blame TP for the series loss. You can blame the bench...except for Finley....and you can blame Pop...but TP doesn't deserve to be blamed.

Did you watch the games?

More often than not Pop had to put Van Exel in b/c TP wasn't getting the job done in the clutch. You could even see Pop talking to Tony in game 7, putting his arms on his head saying we need you...but nope. *makes gagging sound*

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I'd trade Duncan for Josh Howard and cash consideration.

[cherylsteele]

Did you watch the games?

More often than not Pop had to put Van Exel in b/c TP wasn't getting the job done in the clutch. You could even see Pop talking to Tony in game 7, putting his arms on his head saying we need you...but nope. *makes gagging sound*
I watched every game....I can ask you the same question....TP was a big reason we were in those games. You implied TP didn't do anything. But I guess those points he put up still mean nothing at all to you.
That is one of my big problems with Pop.....TP was playing well and NVE stunk it up so bad...NVE did absolutely zero the whole year and playoffs but Pop still played him.

I know you are upset the Spurs lost like they did....so am I.....but using TP as a scapegoat for your depression is unfair.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Did you watch the games?

More often than not Pop had to put Van Exel in b/c TP wasn't getting the job done in the clutch. You could even see Pop talking to Tony in game 7, putting his arms on his head saying we need you...but nope. *makes gagging sound*
True and those games where he scored or got his points and shined individually we lost because of his one man show quarters. I don't like Parker's ballhogging game. He's good for pitching in points but he leaves a lot to be desired in crucial game making decisions. He needs less flash and substance. I don't care if he scores 33 points off his chucks and it's 50 percent. His jump shots helped the Mavs immensely and squandered key possessions for the Spurs in the long run. Those stats where he's scored consistently aren't telling of his intangibles. So far he's showed little intangibles in the postseason. I don't want to look like I'm bashing him cuz he still makes a difference for the Spurs, but that's just the way it looks objectively--Parker shouldn't be responsible for the teams concern in needing a solid backup when he's sucking.

Duncan and Gino don't bring this problem of a constant backup for them, because they make good decisions and actually tighten the slack.

I blame Pop more than Parker though.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I watched every game....I can ask you the same question....TP was a big reason we were in those games. You implied TP didn't do anything. But I guess those points he put up still mean nothing at all to you.
That is one of my big problems with Pop.....TP was playing well and NVE stunk it up so bad...NVE did absolutely zero the whole year and playoffs but Pop still played him.

I know you are upset the Spurs lost like they did....so am I.....but using TP as a scapegoat for your depression is unfair.

Not a scapegoat. I blame Pop for going small ball as well as TP for choking.

I'm not saying TP didn't do anything. I'm saying he dissapeared in the clutch in the games we lost. That's one thing about Tim/Manu...you know they're warriors, and you want to go into the end of a game with them two. Can you say that about TP?


The guys done this every year in the fucking playoffs. The 2 rings we won were b/c we had backup PG's that could cover up for his deepthroat jobs.

[cherylsteele]

I'd trade Duncan for Josh Howard and cash consideration.
Now I know you are just grabbing for straws.
You would give up our only quality big man....an MVP player at that....for Josh Howard?
Josh is a good player but that would be a disastrous trade for the Spurs.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

True and those games where he scored or got his points and shined individually we lost because of his one man show quarters. I don't like Parker's ballhogging game. He's good for pitching in points but he leaves a lot to be desired in crucial game making decisions. He needs less flash and substance. I don't care if he scores 33 points off his chucks and it's 50 percent. His jump shots helped the Mavs immensely and squandered key possessions for the Spurs in the long run. Those stats where he's scored consistently aren't telling of his intangibles. So far he's showed little intangibles in the postseason. I don't want to look like I'm bashing him cuz he still makes a difference for the Spurs, but that's just the way it looks objectively--Parker shouldn't be a concern to backup when he's sucking.

Duncan and Gino don't bring this problem of a constant backup for them, because they make good decisions and actually tighten the slack.

I blame Pop more than Parker though.

He starts settling for jump shots like he's fucking 2nd coming of Sam Cassel.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Now I know you are just grabbing for straws.
You would give up our only quality big man....an MVP player at that....for Josh Howard?
Josh is a good player but that would be a disastrous trade for the Spurs.

Don't forget...cash consideration.

[DuncanInYourFace]

Now I know you are just grabbing for straws.
You would give up our only quality big man....an MVP player at that....for Josh Howard?
Josh is a good player but that would be a disastrous trade for the Spurs.


Ya I hope he is joking there, anyone who MENTIONS trading Duncan is smoking crack, unless we do a multi-team trade where we trade Duncan, Rasho, and Nazr for Garnett, Shaq, and Lebron

[Please_dont_ban_me]

I was kidding.

Trade Duncan? Lmao...and for Josh fucking Howard? Lmao. You guys make me giggle.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

He starts settling for jump shots like he's fucking 2nd coming of Sam Cassel.
Yeah. Even non Spurs fans pointed out his chucking game.

I really liked Parker, but I'm getting tired of the "he's young and up and coming" excuse for games that really count. Until then, it's Pop fault. Parker should have never been the alternate first option/second option he's lacking in the game-making decisions and that's where Cassell actually has him. He's a crafty player. Parker isn't. Defenses read him like a coloring book.

I know Pop loves layups but Parker as our main guy never really achieved wide margined victories this season. Next year it better be Manu- back as the 2nd/1st option or we're toast. This guy better not get injured again.

I think we're better off with Parker being a designated cutter, penetrator as third option, cuz that's all he can do so far. That I can live with--maybe in 3 years he'll raise his basketball IQ but there's been too many times where me and my dad screamed at the T.V. "Get this guy outta there!" after 3 back to back squandered possessions thanks to Parker's tunnel vision.

[cherylsteele]

objectively--Parker shouldn't be a concern to backup when he's sucking.

Duncan and Gino don't bring this problem of a constant backup for them, because they make good decisions and actually tighten the slack.
Manu made the mistake at the end against Pop's instructions not to foul.

Has it ever occured to you that TP is doing what Pop tells him to do....and that is be more of a scorer?


Not a scapegoat. I blame Pop for going small ball as well as TP for choking.
Not a scapegoat but yet you blame him for choking and you imply we lost because of that.....but he is not a scapegoat....if anything you blame NVE, Barry, Nazr, etc.

Then you want to get rid of Duncan?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Manu made the mistake at the end against Pop's instructions not to foul.

Has it ever occured to you that TP is doing what Pop tells him to do....and that is be more of a scorer?


Not a scapegoat but yet you blame him for choking and you imply we lost because of that.....but he is not a scapegoat....if anything you blame NVE, Barry, Nazr, etc.

Then you want to get rid of Duncan?Yeah that's why I blame Pop more than Parker. At the bottom of my post.

Manu made an error in trying to go for the block. I can't fault him for that cuz he brings more good than bad. It's expected cuz he's unpredictable. It sounds bad but objectively, again, Manu really can't be blamed cuz he made the three and we go down as a team, he's pitched in more good than bad for the team by winning games 1, 5, and 6 off a last minute play. So that's basically 1 bad potentially game losing play for 3 good definitive game clinching plays. Can you really argue against those??
Tim still had a chance to win that game but he didn't have the energy to dunk that shit. We still had overtime. So far Parker's key plays...uhh, I can't really think of anything besides him running into a crowd and losing the ball. :lol

Don't get me wrong Parker isn't the reason we lost, but he could do a lot more to help us win games.

The team lost because they made more mistakes that's all as a unit. 20 point lead, Pop going to an exhausted Tim, Manu's egregious foul error. Tony's TO's/Pop's go ahead.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Yeah. Even non Spurs fans pointed out his chucking game.

I really liked Parker, but I'm getting tired of the "he's young and up and coming" excuse for games that really count. Until then, it's Pop fault. Parker should have never been the alternate first option/second option he's lacking in the game-making decisions and that's where Cassell actually has him. He's a crafty player. Parker isn't. Defenses read him like a coloring book.

I know Pop loves layups but Parker as our main guy never really achieved wide margined victories this season. Next year it better be Manu- back as the 2nd/1st option or we're toast. This guy better not get injured again.

I think we're better off with Parker being a designated cutter, penetrator as third option, cuz that's all he can do so far. That I can live with--maybe in 3 years he'll raise his basketball IQ but there's been too many times where me and my dad screamed at the T.V. "Get this guy outta there!" after 3 back to back squandered possessions thanks to Parker's tunnel vision.

I like Parker...as a 3rd option.

Just bring it up court, give it to Manu/Tim and get the fuck out of the way.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Not a scapegoat but yet you blame him for choking and you imply we lost because of that.....but he is not a scapegoat....if anything you blame NVE, Barry, Nazr, etc.

Then you want to get rid of Duncan?

Scapegoat implies he's the only one to blame.

I suggested he...along with the idea to go small ball...are to blame.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

^ Not only that, but Manu's foul is to blame also. BUT that's easier to stomach then TP's choke jobs b/c those happen so often. So far I can think of 2 maybe 3 games that Manu has made decisions in.

Even those were bad decisions, but he was being aggressive. TP's just...blah. Let him be a 3rd option.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

^ Not only that, but Manu's foul is to blame also. BUT that's easier to stomach then TP's choke jobs b/c those happen so often. So far I can think of 2 maybe 3 games that Manu has made decisions in.

Even those were bad decisions, but he was being aggressive. TP's just...blah. Let him be a 3rd option.
Yeah they were bad decisions, but they weren't because he was stupid--just impulsive.

TP's actions are on the verge of him being liability in some stretches. Which comes back to the issue of Spurs needing a "Veteran/Solid Back Up" ...TP needs to take insult to this issue, that the Spurs always have to make trading decisions because of his game. Again, for the defensive TP fans, sorry, but it's true. The Argument that Tony's game leaves a lot to be desired is the fact that we've been constantly looking for "Who will back up Tony??" in the postseason. So take it up with the Spurs org. not us.

[sprrs]

I watched every game....I can ask you the same question....TP was a big reason we were in those games. You implied TP didn't do anything. But I guess those points he put up still mean nothing at all to you.
That is one of my big problems with Pop.....TP was playing well and NVE stunk it up so bad...NVE did absolutely zero the whole year and playoffs but Pop still played him.

I know you are upset the Spurs lost like they did....so am I.....but using TP as a scapegoat for your depression is unfair.

Honestly, the last three games Nick was playing much better than Tony. He was taking much better care of the ball and not forcing shots. I was terrified everytime Tony touched the ball for fear he was just gonna jack up some jump shot. I know Pop told him to shoot more etc. but his shot was obviously not falling, so either penetrate more or get rid of the ball. Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming Tony for the loss, and I recognize that without Tony we would have lost a lot of games, but having a Speedy Claxton in those situations where Tony's sucking would definitely make me feel comfortable.

As for Speedy being too expensive, I believe that he'd probably play more minutes than Nick or Beno did, simply because he's a much better option.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

^ If Speed is here, I foresee a 36/12 type minute split.




*edit* That's for the regular season. For the playoffs...god knows.

[ChumpDumper]

Shit, you shut down Speedy the same way you shut down Parker.

The only reason he excelled against the Nets is because they didn't bother to.

[T Park]

Parker shot over 50% for the playoffs.

Yeah, thats "gagging"

"You keep saying that word, I dont think you know the definition."

[strangeweather]

Parker shot over 50% for the playoffs.

Yeah, thats "gagging"

"You keep saying that word, I dont think you know the definition."
We need a point guard that shoots at least 75%, or there's no point in having him. :rolleyes

Parker does disappear at times, but name me a shooting point guard that doesn't.

My only real criticism about Parker is that he doesn't see the floor as well as the best points in the game. But neither did Nash, Billups, et al. at Parker's age. For pretty much everyone not named Jason Kidd, it's something you grow into.

[SPARKY]

Spurs are bringing in Javtokas and have added Bonner. Spurs also dumped Rasho's contract. Mohammed seems likely to depart. The Rose and Radoslav trades have removed $38 million in salary commitments from 2006-09. The Spurs are reordering their cap and I suspect they will spend more on the perimeter positions. This makes sense given how the game has evolved to feature perimeter offense.

Signing Claxton would be a huge step in this regard. Not only would he give the Spurs a scoring threat off the bench, but a scoring threat who can penetrate, dish, and ensure that Parker rests well during games. Reading between the lines, Claxton seems rather amenable to a 2nd stint as a Spur. He's also a Pop favorite. Claxton is a nice point for both the open court game as well as in the half court. At 28 years of age, a 4 or 5 year contract would make a lot of sense. Ensuring that Parker has a quality backup as he reaches his prime is a great strategic move for the Spurs. No defense can rest when Claxton enters the game for TP.

The Spurs do not necessarily need the MLE to use on a long 3. They have other avenues to use to address that. If you have 48 minutes of solid to great point guard play then you don't need a 3 with an awesome defensive game as much as you need one who can do the basics for a Spurs wing player: shoot, defend, run the floor, and get to his spots. Of course, perhaps the Spurs acquire Claxton in a sign and trade with Barry, a player who the Hornets were amenable to receiving last February and who whose game hasn't diminished since then. If that happens, then the Spurs will be in a nice spot to make a run at Jumaine Jones which would be a great pickup. The Spurs also have the expiring contract of Eric Williams, Luis Scola's rights, and Nazr Mohammed in free agency to perhaps also use to acquire talent. I'll also mention that Stephen Jackson seems rather available right now.

I expect to see the Spurs making a little noise this summer. They have the assets (MLE + tradeable players + free agent center teams are interested in), they have the capacity (if ownership asslickers defend the Spurs for being cheap this summer they might as well get a Holt Cat logo tattooed on their asses), and they have, presumably, the motivation to bolster the perimeter talent.

[exstatic]

Shit, you shut down Speedy the same way you shut down Parker.

The only reason he excelled against the Nets is because they didn't bother to.
Speedy flat BUSTED the J when they went under, which was always. He is fantastic shooting off of the pick from about 18 feet.

[mabber]

I've read that signing Claxton is plan B for the Mavericks if by chance Terry doesn't sign.

[Bruno]

SPARKY, I have two question for you :
If you were Spurs GM, how much money will you be ready to spend on Claxton ?
If you were Pop, will you use Parker and Claxton at the same time ?

[SPARKY]

SPARKY, I have two question for you :
If you were Spurs GM, how much money will you be ready to spend on Claxton ?

Tough call. If you view him as your backup point for the next 5 years, a player whose skills fit within your offense and will take advantage of the style the league is moving toward and someone who locks down that spot and keeps the pressure off Parker to play heavy minutes, then I'd be willing to go with something like $25 mil over 5 years. A player like Claxton could be a vital cog in the Spurs' offense over the next 5 years as Parker begins to become the franchise player.



If you were Pop, will you use Parker and Claxton at the same time ?

Perhaps, depending on the opponent.

[picnroll]

Two of the Spurs biggest Western conference rivals, Suns and Mavs, will likely use Nash and Barbosa and Harris and Terry quite a bit. Parker and Claxton would be useful against those two teams. Against other contenders Parker and Claxton would create mismatch opportunities.

[Darkwaters]

Speedy has reported that he likes his role in New Orleans. He comes off the bench for the best young PG in the league, but he actually spent a lot of time playing the 2 last year due to a general weakness at that position. So Chris Paul and Speedy played alongside one another a lot of the time.

Speedy has already been pursued by quite a few teams though, if only due to the fact that theres not a lot of quality PGs on the free agent market this year (Jason Terry, Sam Cassell, Speedy Claxton). The Larry Brown coached Knicks very VERY interested in him, but that is likely history with Brown's dismissal.

However, he has also expressed an interest to sign with the Hornets (at probably about 5M). He has stated that he does not want to go to New Orleans though. So, if the team truly does return to NOLA then hes likely gone. If the team stays parmanently in OKC then I'd imagine he'll have a tough decision. If he walks expect the Hornets to S&T him with a multi-year contract worth about 7M per.

[SPARKY]

The Hornets will be lucky to get Brent Barry back in a S&T.

[Darkwaters]

The Hornets will be lucky to get Brent Barry back in a S&T.

I liked that trade that was "5 minutes late". The Hornets desperately need a shooter so that teams won't play so much zone on them. They've got slashers galore, but not shooters. What they do have is JR Smith who is a joke and like to jack up bad 3's.

Actually, they have one of the "best pure shooters in the world" on their roster in Arvydas Macijauskas. But, the guy won't learn that princeton offense and they're having language issues. Hmmm...

So yea, Brent would have been a blessing. But I think they want a long-term fix, not a short-term. They're a team so full of talent they're on the verge of exploding with success.

[Bruno]

I don't like spending $25M/5 years for a backup PG. Parker is way more consistent than before and "chokes" less during the playoff.
The only way I spend that amount of money is that if Claxton can play 24mpg, that means 10mpg with a Claxton/Parker backcourt.

[SPARKY]

I don't like spending $25M/5 years for a backup PG. Parker is way more consistent than before and "chokes" less during the playoff.
The only way I spend that amount of money is that if Claxton can play 24mpg, that means 10mpg with a Claxton/Parker backcourt.

I think you spend the money to cover that position and forget it. A solid backup point will mean a lot for Parker's career. As pointed out above, you can play both TP and Claxton together. It's also not just about the position. Speedy gives you a scoring threat off the bench and his game will make other players in that 2nd unit better. If they had Claxton in the Dallas series, they win.

[Bruno]

I think you spend the money to cover that position and forget it.

But you can't spend this money for other needs, the Luxury tax threshold is a kind of hard cap for Spurs. You can blame Cheap Holt for that but it's a fact we can't forget when we speak about the offseason.
Spending $14M (and $18M in 2010) for the PG spot is a lot.

Claxton will be a great backup PG but I think we have bigger need. A solution Udrih + a player like Pargo, Palacio, Vaughn is enough for me.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Shit, you shut down Speedy the same way you shut down Parker.

The only reason he excelled against the Nets is because they didn't bother to.

Speedy has a somewhat consistent mid-range jumper...of the Avery Johnsons mold.

The difference between him and TP to me is just his will to win. He doesn't seem to cave/fold/choke as easily, but that's my opinion from his one year here playing limited minutes off the bench.

[SPARKY]

But you can't spend this money for other needs, the Luxury tax threshold is a kind of hard cap for Spurs. You can blame Cheap Holt for that but it's a fact we can't forget when we speak about the offseason.
Spending $14M (and $18M in 2010) for the PG spot is a lot.

Claxton will be a great backup PG but I think we have bigger need. A solution Udrih + a player like Pargo, Palacio, Vaughn is enough for me.

Then you need to add more firepower elsewhere in the perimeter rotation.

If you have a solid penetrating point guard tandem then you can get by with less in the swingman rotation.

[SPARKY]

Speedy has a somewhat consistent mid-range jumper...of the Avery Johnsons mold.

The difference between him and TP to me is just his will to win. He doesn't seem to cave/fold/choke as easily, but that's my opinion from his one year here playing limited minutes off the bench.


Damn, one quarter after the Nets changed their defense to shut down Parker does not make Claxton a better player or competitor.

[picnroll]

But you can't spend this money for other needs, the Luxury tax threshold is a kind of hard cap for Spurs. You can blame Cheap Holt for that but it's a fact we can't forget when we speak about the offseason.
Spending $14M (and $18M in 2010) for the PG spot is a lot.

Claxton will be a great backup PG but I think we have bigger need. A solution Udrih + a player like Pargo, Palacio, Vaughn is enough for me.
You're paying for rotation minutes. If you can play Claxton at the PG for 15 minutes and at SG for 10 minutes and he's an impact player, not just a placeholder, he's worth the money. Biggest question is his frailty.

[Bruno]

Then you need to add more firepower elsewhere in the perimeter rotation.

If you have a solid penetrating point guard tandem then you can get by with less in the swingman rotation.

Agree, you can't spend money at every positon.
I've read that you are high on Jax too, would you take Jax or Claxton ? Taking both is likely too expensive.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Damn, one quarter after the Nets changed their defense to shut down Parker does not make Claxton a better player or competitor.

Has any other point guard we've had come in and done what Speedy did for us once the other team "changed there defense to shut down TP"?

If we can overpay Rasho and Malik then god dammit give Speedy 5 mill a year.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Agree, you can't spend money at every positon.
I've read that you are high on Jax too, would you take Jax or Claxton ? Taking both is likely too expensive.

We would love Jax.

But we'd have to pay more, and he wouldn't want to come off the bench. That is part of why he left here, and after a taste of starting in Atlanta and Indiana I doubt he takes a backup role easily now.

[Bruno]

You're paying for rotation minutes. If you can play Claxton at the PG for 15 minutes and at SG for 10 minutes and he's an impact player, not just a placeholder, he's worth the money. Biggest question is his frailty.

Biggest question is : can you play with Parker/Claxton 10mpg against most of the team ?
I fear that the opposite SG owned Parker or Claxton. On the other end of the court, the opposite team can lock the paint, Claxton and Parker aren't great jumsphooters.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Biggest question is : can you play with Parker/Claxton 10mpg against most of the team ?
I fear that the opposite SG owned Parker or Claxton. On the other end of the court, the opposite team can lock the paint, Claxton and Parker aren't great jumsphooters.

Claxton has a nice mid-range jumper.

I don't see why they wouldn't play them alongside each other at times. Especially when Phoenix/Dallas go to there small back courts with nash/barbosa and terry/harris. And against other teams we can present the same problems the suns/mavs present to us.


Claxton is also an underrated defender, he can guard 2's similar to how Barbosa does for Phoenix.

[Bruno]

Has any other point guard we've had come in and done what Speedy did for us once the other team "changed there defense to shut down TP"?

06-07 Parker >>>>> 02-03 Parker



If we can overpay Rasho and Malik then god dammit give Speedy 5 mill a year.

:lol
I'm stunned with your reasoning.

[rascal]

Why do spur fans always want to get back ex players? Don't you also want Malik Rose back? Let it go, Claxton is gone.

[rascal]

Biggest question is : can you play with Parker/Claxton 10mpg against most of the team ?
I fear that the opposite SG owned Parker or Claxton. On the other end of the court, the opposite team can lock the paint, Claxton and Parker aren't great jumsphooters.
Good post. Claxton is not a good perimeter shooter.

[Bruno]

Claxton has a nice mid-range jumper.

False. Claxton is at 36.23% (75/207) this year concerning midrange jumper (between 17ft and the three point line).



I don't see why they wouldn't play them alongside each other at times. Especially when Phoenix/Dallas go to there small back courts with nash/barbosa and terry/harris.

That's two team and they can decide to play with a big SG when we use a Parker/Claxton backcourt.



And against other teams we can present the same problems the suns/mavs present to us.

See my pevious post on closing the paint.



Claxton is also an underrated defender, he can guard 2's similar to how Barbosa does for Phoenix.

Claxton is 5'11", Barboso is 6'3".

[Please_dont_ban_me]

06-07 Parker >>>>> 02-03 Parker



:lol
I'm stunned with your reasoning.

:rolleyes I hope so. But nice to have an insurance policy.





:D Thanks. I thought of it all by myself.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

False. Claxton is at 36.23% (75/207) this year concerning midrange jumper (between 17ft and the three point line).


The hell?

Where does one go about finding a stat for mid-range jumpers exclusively? If you have such a stat machine, please do me a favor and look TP's stats the past few years from about 15 feet and out.

[Darkwaters]

You can definately play TP and Speedy together. You might think it's going to be a huge liability, but it will actually give the other team a speed disadvantage. They won't be able to match quickness. Thats what happened when Chris Paul and Speedy played together.

Defenses will try to go zone to prevent slashing. To prevent this the team just has to put some shooters on the floor. Play Finley at the 3 and Bonner at the 4 and you're set. If the defense plays zone they leave the floor open to 3s.

[Darkwaters]

Claxton's FG percentage is going to be really low this season. The Hornets were somewhere like 29th in the league in FG percentage. With no outside shooting defenses would collapse on the slashing guards. Without an alternative either in the low post or outside shooting, Speedy and Chris Paul were forced to provide scoring, no matter how difficult a shot.

[picnroll]

Biggest question is : can you play with Parker/Claxton 10mpg against most of the team ?
I fear that the opposite SG owned Parker or Claxton. On the other end of the court, the opposite team can lock the paint, Claxton and Parker aren't great jumsphooters.
Claxton is a pretty solid defender, better than Parker. When he and Paul play together it's usually Claxtgon that matches up defensively against the other teams SG.

[Bruno]

Where does one go about finding a stat for mid-range jumpers exclusively? If you have such a stat machine, please do me a favor and look TP's stats the past few years from about 15 feet and out.

Parker is at 41.09% (136/331) this year concerning midrange jumper (between 17ft and the three point line).

[Darkwaters]

What about Bobby Jackson? His game is very similar to Speedy's but hes a much more reliable 3 point shooter. Also, he'll undoubtedly be a cheaper option.

[SPARKY]

Agree, you can't spend money at every positon.
I've read that you are high on Jax too, would you take Jax or Claxton ? Taking both is likely too expensive.

With the contracts of Rose and Nesterovic gone, the Spurs have removed $38 million in salary commitments from 2006-09. If you include Barry in a trade then that's $11 million over the next 2 years that you do not have to add to your payroll if you should acquire a free agent using Barry in a sign and trade. That's close to $50 million that's been freed up over 3 years. OK, so you say it's unreasonable to expect the Spurs to spend that much, well how about $30? $35?

At what point do we stop believing in the luxury tax boogeyman?

[Darkwaters]

With the contracts of Rose and Nesterovic gone, the Spurs have removed $38 million in salary commitments from 2006-09. If you include Barry in a trade then that's $11 million over the next 2 years that you do not have to add to your payroll if you should acquire a free agent using Barry in a sign and trade. That's close to $50 million that's been freed up over 3 years. OK, so you say it's unreasonable to expect the Spurs to spend that much, well how about $30? $35?

At what point do we stop believing in the luxury tax boogeyman?

Take a look at Parker and Ginobili's contracts. They will continue to get bigger and bigger until they expire. They have to clear the space.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Parker is at 41.09% (136/331) this year concerning midrange jumper (between 17ft and the three point line).

Where are you getting this from?

[SPARKY]

Take a look at Parker and Ginobili's contracts. They will continue to get bigger and bigger until they expire. They have to clear the space.

Quick question: what other contracts are there from 2007-10?

Lame excuse.

[Bruno]

Where are you getting this from?

http://www.mysynergysports.com

You need to register but it's free (for the moment)

[Darkwaters]

Quick question: what other contracts are there from 2007-10?

Lame excuse.

There might not be anything there NOW. But to stay competitive they will have to be able to sign good players. Look at the Pistons, they're getting strapped for cash because they're paying their starters so much. Their bench (outside of McDyess) is almost non-existant.

Thats why players like Bowen are so great. The guy is just a role-player, but hes so valuable to the Spurs. And, he only costs a little over 3M a year. How amazing is that for a die-hard starter?

The Spurs have always been smart with money. Why would this change all of a sudden?

[SPARKY]

So spend no money on the supporting cast? Yeah, that works.

They have no commitments to players save for the big 3 past 2008.

How exactly is it unreasonable to expect the team to spend on their supporting cast when they were prepared to spend $50 mil over the next 3 years on players outside of their top 3?

Damn, when do Spurs fans stop kissing ownership ass?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

So spend no money on the supporting cast? Yeah, that works.

They have no commitments to players save for the big 3 past 2008.

How exactly is it unreasonable to expect the team to spend on their supporting cast when they were prepared to spend $50 mil over the next 3 years on players outside of their top 3?

Damn, when do Spurs fans stop kissing ownership ass?

I think the whole idea was we need to have cap space to be able to pay a supporting cast.

[SPARKY]

I think the whole idea was we need to have cap space to be able to pay a supporting cast.

Um, they do. Or are the Spurs going to go with only 3 players?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Um, they do. Or are the Spurs going to go with only 3 players?

Weren't you asking who we have under contract for 07-10?

The only players we have locked up long term is our big three. So I'm guessing your point was we have cap space? Actually I have no clue what your point was, one of us isn't articulating our point well and it seems like you contradicted yourself at two different points in this thread.



What exactly are you trying to say?

[Darkwaters]

Anyways....

What do you guys think of taking Bobby Jackson instead of Speedy? Hes got a similar game, but more reliable from 3. Also, hes going to be cheaper (maybe 3.5M?). I think he'd be a great backup for TP and he could fill some time at the 2 as well to add quickness.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Bobby Jackson has more range and is a tougher defender.

But he's also older, and I think is starting to wear down slightly. I would rather invest in a 4-5 year contract for a guy like Speedy.

[SPARKY]

Weren't you asking who we have under contract for 07-10?

The only players we have locked up long term is our big three. So I'm guessing your point was we have cap space? Actually I have no clue what your point was, one of us isn't articulating our point well and it seems like you contradicted yourself at two different points in this thread.



What exactly are you trying to say?

The point is that the Spurs don't have any commitments to players outside of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker after the 2007-08 season. In addition, the Spurs have ridded themselves of $38 million in salary commitments from 2006-09 with the departures of Rose and Nesterovic. Throw in the likelihood that Barry could be included in a sign and trade and you have theoretically $50 million in room from 2006-09 to spend on your supporting cast. So you say the Spurs have to be afraid of the LuxTax boogeyman. Then they have $35 mil or so to spend. I'm just trying to find out what the latest excuse the Holt Catlickers are going to come up with for not making moves this summer.

Is Holt Cat offering each of you a case of Shiner Bock for kissing his ass? Fuck ownership let's get some players and win this mofo.

[SPARKY]

Anyways....

What do you guys think of taking Bobby Jackson instead of Speedy? Hes got a similar game, but more reliable from 3. Also, hes going to be cheaper (maybe 3.5M?). I think he'd be a great backup for TP and he could fill some time at the 2 as well to add quickness.


Pass.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

The point is that the Spurs don't have any commitments to players outside of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker after the 2007-08 season. In addition, the Spurs have ridded themselves of $38 million in salary commitments from 2006-09 with the departures of Rose and Nesterovic. Throw in the likelihood that Barry could be included in a sign and trade and you have theoretically $50 million in room from 2006-09 to spend on your supporting cast. So you say the Spurs have to be afraid of the LuxTax boogeyman. Then they have $35 mil or so to spend. I'm just trying to find out what the latest excuse the Holt Catlickers are going to come up with for not making moves this summer.

Is Holt Cat offering each of you a case of Shiner Bock for kissing his ass? Fuck ownership let's get some players and win this mofo.

I don't think anybody has ever accused the Spurs of being cheap.

We have overpaid players in the past, and we have been in positions where we haven't been able to afford players. Right now it seems like came across a little money, and are looking to spend it. We're always right on the brink of the luxury tax penalty, so I don't really see your point...Holt is no Donald Sterling (of the past).

[SPARKY]

I don't think anybody has ever accused the Spurs of being cheap.

That's because many have not paid attention.




We have overpaid players in the past, and we have been in positions where we haven't been able to afford players. Right now it seems like came across a little money, and are looking to spend it. We're always right on the brink of the luxury tax penalty, so I don't really see your point...Holt is no Donald Sterling (of the past).

The Spurs are as close to a lock as there ever will be to winning championships if ownership will spend on a supporting cast.

Lux tax? What the fuck do you care about that?

The Spurs let Malik Rose and two 1st round picks go because of the Lux Tax boogeyman. Tell me they couldn't have used him in that last series. Tell me taking away two 1st round picks from the best talent evaluation staff in the NBA is an awesome idea. Now Spurs fans are trying to come up with excuses why the Spurs can't spend money after they got rid of the two contracts the Spurs bitched about the most. Fuck that. Are you guys basketball fans or do you jizz yourselves when Holt Cat is raking in $$$$? Fuck. Disgusting.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

That's because many have not paid attention.




The Spurs are as close to a lock as there ever will be if ownership will spend on a supporting cast.

Lux tax? What the fuck do you care about that?

The Spurs let Malik Rose and two 1st round picks go because of the Lux Tax boogeyman. Tell me they couldn't have used him in that last series. Tell me taking away two 1st round picks from the best talent evaluation staff in the NBA is an awesome idea. Now Spurs fans are trying to come up with excuses why the Spurs can't spend money after they got rid of the two contracts the Spurs bitched about the most. Fuck that. Are you guys basketball fans or do you jizz yourselves when Holt Cat is raking in $$$$? Fuck. Disgusting.

Right, fuck the luxury tax.

You should apply for vacant general manager positions around the league.

[SPARKY]

Right, fuck the luxury tax.

You should apply for vacant general manager positions around the league.


Fuck yeah, fuck it. What # does Lux Tax savings wear?

[ducks]

90% of nba owners do not want to pay the lux tax
but spurs are cheap

[SPARKY]

ducks get your bill off Holt's ass.

At this point it's not even about the Lux Tax. Yet Spurs fans still buy into the old saw that the Spurs are on the brink of financial disaster. Unreal.

[ducks]

moving rose and rasho was smart because they made way to much money for 12 men off the bench


no team would pay that to them for that role

teams need that money for other players that are 1-7 men on the team

[SPARKY]

moving rose and rasho was smart because they made way to much money for 12 men off the bench


no team would pay that to them for that role

teams need that money for other players that are 1-7 men on the team

Again, who is under contract past 2008? How much Lux Tax are they reasonably on the hook for in 2007-08?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Fuck yeah, fuck it. What # does Lux Tax savings wear?

You and Isiah Thomas would get along well.

[SPARKY]

You and Isiah Thomas would get along well.

Zeke doesn't have Tim Duncan on his roster. Try again.

[bigdog]

and the spurs front office is not full of idiots, isiah thomas is. haha

[timvp]

By ridding themselves of Rasho's contract, the Spurs should be in the position to take on some longterm agreements. That'd be especially true if they let Mohammed walk.

At the very least, the Spurs better sign-and-trade Nazr or use the entire MLE.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think we can get something good in return for Nazr, would blow to let him just leave